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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  August 10, 2017 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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north korea lobbing a new threat at the u.s. tonight in response of president trump's vow of fire and fury. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. pyongyang saying it's seriously examining a plan to launch a missile strike targeting an area near the u.s. territory of guam. that's in response to president trump's warning that any additional threats will be met with fire and fury. a warning that seemed to catch some of his top advisors off guard. plus state department employees sent home from cuba after a mysterious acoustic attack, their symptoms resembling concussions. some could have permanent
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hearing loss. cuba saying it's launched what it calls an urgent investigation. tonight espionage experts weigh in on the mystery. what happened, who's behind it and what they're trying to accomplish. let's get right to the escalating war of words on north korea. a lot of people were taken by surprise of president trump's threat of fire and fury with north korea. but he has a long history of sometimes surprising statements on nuclear weapons. cnn's suzanne malveaux has more. >> reporter: it's not the first time the president has brought up using nuclear weapons but it's the most stark. >> north korea best not make any more threats to the united states. they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen. >> reporter: for those left wondering what the president meant, a clue in a pair of interviews from 1999. >> first i'd negotiate. i would negotiate like crazy and i'd make sure we tried to get the best deal possible. >> north korea is totally out of control and would you rather
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have a very, very serious chat with them now, and if necessary you might have to do something fairly drastic, or would you rather have to go after them in five years when they have more nuclear warheads and missiles than we do? >> it's not just talk. president trump now holds the nuclear codes and has the sole discretion to launch an attack and hasn't ruled it out. >> if he does a nuclear test, i will not be happy. >> not happy mean military action? >> i don't know. we'll see. >> the candidate >> reporter: as in this cnn debate when asked about the so-called nuclear triad. >> do you have a priority. >> i think to me nuclear is the power, the devastation is very important to me. >> the nuclear triad refers to the three ways the u.s. is capable of launching nuclear weapons, either by plane, submarine or missile silo.
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another eye-popping campaign moment, this from "morning joe." >> three times he asked about the use of nuclear weapons. three times he asked at one point if we have them, why can't we use them? >> reporter: the trump campaign denied the exchange, but trump says he would consider using nuclear weapons against another foe, isis. >> i'd be the last one to use the nuclear weapons. that's sort of like the end of the ball game. >> can you tell the middle east we're not going to use nuclear weapons? >> i would never say that. i would never take any of my cards off the table. >> reporter: while the president wants his cards on the table, kim jong-un wants a seat at the table of nuclear nations. >> obviously he's a pretty smart cookie, but we have a situation that we just cannot let -- we cannot let what's been going on for a long period of years continue. >> reporter: so as north korea escalates its threats, president trump is doing the same. suzanne malveaux, cnn, washington. >> suzanne, thank you very much for that.
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now i want to bring in cnn global affairs analyst and martinez you murray who was senate armed services to the armed services committee and david swerdlick. so gad to have you on. so matthew, i want to start with you. we just saw president trump talk about nuclear weapons and north korea over the years. with north korea escalating their threats, does the president have grasp on this issue? >> well, don, in the last 48 hours, i think we've seen what trump meant when he said the era of strategic patience regarding north korea was over, a statement he made in june during a series of meetings with the south korean leadership. and looks as though strategic patience has been replaced with tactical improvisation and maybe even impulsiveness. and by that i mean to say he made two statements in the last 48 hours which are upsetting the
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delicate balance that is the u.s. nuclear deterrence. nuclear deterrence is based on two elements. one is our capabilities. and the other is our intentions to use those capabilities. and in the one case when he tweeted this morning that his nuclear -- he had ordered a modernization of nuclear weapons that had taken place over the last six months, that was demonstrably wrong on both counts. he indicated it was his first order as president, which it was not. it was one of the second or third. and then it was also -- it's also clear that we haven't had any dramatic upscaling or upgrading of our nuclear capabilities. and the other statement that he made yesterday, the one about fire and fury equally ambivalent on the question of our intentions, when would we use nuclear weapons. so the gap between what he's
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thinking and the delicacy of the balance of nuclear deterrence ability has i think created a small crisis. and he does seem to be out of sync with his own advisers and without of sync with the history of nuclear deterrence. >> david rohde, the president, he did emphasize the fire and fury, those remarks. and now north korea is threatening guam. and you have a new statement from north korea tonight. what did he expect would happen? >> look, it's not clear. i mean, this is -- may sound odd, but maybe the best case scenario here is that he is making a political statement for his base this the united states, that he'll look very tough on north korea, and he is not really serious about using nuclear weapons. if he is serious, if this is sort of his doctrine of using nuclear weapons, it's astonishing and it's alarming. >> david sweater licrdlick, hert of a statement from north korea. the u.s. president at the golf range again with a lot of
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nonsense about fire and fury, failing to grasp the ongoing grave situation. it seems he has not yet understood the statement. sound dialogue is not possible with such a guy bereft of reason and only absolute force can work on him. first of all, north korea is trampling over the president's red line, and now they're throwing insult at the president. how do you see the president responding from here? >> the north korean president is trolling president trump and his administration. they seized on that fire and fury wording that really was unnecessarily colorful and didn't really mean anything. it almost reminded me of that scene in the movie "pulp fiction" where samuel l. jackson quotes the bible verse before he does his job killing the guy and later said it just sound like something cold blooded to say before i did what i had to do. i'm going to actually give the benefit of the doubt and say this is not actually the crossing of a red line yet. it's the crossing of a
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rhetorical line. what will actually be a crossing of the red line from which the president might be boxed in is if north korea goes through with this missile test and does anything close to firing a missile anywhere near guam, even if no one is harmed, then the president really will have to put up or shut up on this idea that north korea can't threaten part of the united states, which guam is. i think that's the box that president trump is in right now. there is two theories. either this is too mercurial, unpredictable leaders talking to each other, or the other thing is that north korea's strategy is to test president trump and president trump's strategy is to test china. i think we have to see how this plays out. >> i had robin wright on in the last hour and she had this piece in the new yorker about what many official thinks about the president and how much he knows or doesn't know about international affairs. and she says the list of other trump blunders is long.
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in march he charged that germany owed vast sums to the united states for nato. it doesn't. no nato member pays the united states and never has. so none is in arrears. in an interview with "the wall street journal" in april, president trump claimed that korea actually used to be part of china. not true. after he arrived in israel from saudi arabia in may, president trump head sedona he had just come from the middle east. did he even look at a map and that's before delving into his demeaning tweets. about world leaders and other flash points. so is he knowledgeable enough about these issues to be speaking off the cuff about nuclear weapons when he's supposed to be talking about opioids? >> david rohde or david swerdlick? >> david rohde. i'll ask both. you go on. >> i think at a minimum what we know about president trump from all the reporting, from the statements going back to the campaign that he's not deeply read or has not deeply thought through the end game of a lot of these scenarios.
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take nato for example throughout the campaign, he ratcheted up this idea that nato was in arrears when that wasn't the situation and never focused on the fact that this has been an ongoing issue for past presidents. >> nato members should pay their fair share and they were speaking about a talking point that wasn't true. >> something that president obama said repeatedly. he said it last year in germany, he said it a couple of years ago in germany. but what he didn't do is agitate our allies to the point where they felt like they were on less sure footing with us when push came to shove in a global crisis like we're now in. you've got to have certainly your allies on the same page with you if you're confronting an adversary like north korea. >> david rohde, your response now? >> i edited robin's story. i thought it was fantastic. i don't think he has a deep understanding of these issues, and that's why he should be more scripted. he does well when he does addresses abroad where he is
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reading from a teleprompter. he's got to stop making comments like this off the cuff as this one was about north korea or he is tweeting. 's got to stop this. >> matthew, to you, quickly, please. does he have enough knowledge to be speaking off the cuff? >> don, he doesn't even seem to understand his own strategy. he's really mystifying about the whole series of events is he just scored a major diplomatic victory in which he brought china on board a sanctions policy and there was a unanimous vote in the security counsel to impose sanctions on north korean experts. -- exports. that was a moment he should have been ready to forge ahead to let the sanctions work and let and that china was aligned with the united states and maybe produce a new diplomatic dynamic. so he with these statements seemed to have stepped all over that. now in the meantime his cabinet
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has been busy cleaning it up. secretary mattis and secretary tillerson have done good work, i think, to sort of rectify the misimpressions and the misperception created by the trump statements. and so we're hopefully in a situation where it can be stabilized. but i hope he will play more team ball with his foreign policy cabinet. >> thank you, matthew. thank you, david, and other david. >> thank you. >> which one is witch. thank you very much. when we come back, all hopes were on john kelly to tamp down the drama in the white house. what do the last two days show about that? pain used to shut me down during pick-up games. but with odor free blue-emu continuous pain relief spray, i can box out any muscle or joint pain immediately. blue-emu continuous pain relief spray. it works fast and you won't stink.
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general john kelly is now 10 days into his new job. as a white house chief of staff. are we seeing any signs he's bringing order to a west wing that often has been seen as so chaotic? and what about his ability to rein in president trump. let's discuss now. ta tara palmeri is here, the
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correspondent for politico as well. matt lewis at the daily beast former spokesman for breitbart formerly run by steve bannon, now president trump's chief strategist. we have very accomplished people. tara, i'm going start with you. president trump's comments about fire and fury against north korea, reportedly they were improvised. i want you to take a look at this freeze-frame. you can see jared kushner, john kelly sitting across from the president at the time he made those comments. and then if you look at all the people who are sitting there, their faces when he made the comment. general kelly was there as well. do you think he has been able to limit or control what the president is saying? because this was made off the cuff. >> the thing that general kelly is learning right now is that he can control the aides around trump but he can't actually control trump and he accepted that knowing that you're never going to stop him from tweeting.
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and he knew that. so that was never something -- i was surprised to see that in reports. he knew that off the cuff. >> but most people would say when you said that, duh. if he actually thought he was going to control donald trump, i mean. >> there's two-fold issues with donald trump. he has this free wheeling style and he likes talking with aides all the time. now general kelly says if you want to talk to trump, you have to go through me. what i've seen from administration officials is there is way more order. people are showing up on time. they're going to meetings. before they would skip them because they didn't feel like they had to deal with reince. >> people would skip meet sngs they work this the white house. >> yeah. but they didn't feel like they had to go because what were the repercussions? they could just talk to the president directly. so general kelly says i'm on a war against factions.
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i don't want to read any more stories in the presses about the divisions in this white house. there will always be policy brawls but they should be civil and not playing out in the press. he's going to have a problem with that because whether he likes it or not there are right wing media aligned with bannon who are going to take out their grievances against mcmaster in the press and bannon will be blamed fairly or unfairly. even if he is not orchestrating it. >> but listen, matt, trump likes chaos. i mean he likes it. how is kelly going to -- how do you reconcile that? >> that's the -- that's why this is the toughest job in america. tougher than being president, maybe. look, i agree with everything that was said here. john kelly is a general, not a magician. what would the world be like if john kelly wasn't the chief of staff is maybe what we should be asking. i think he's probably doing as good a job as anybody can possibly do handed this very difficult mission, and i think
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he is, you know, doing a good job of bringing order in terms of the staff. he's the chief of staff, not the chief of the president. the president doesn't work for him. he works for the president and that tells you all you need to know about why it's so hard to rein in the most powerful man in the free world. >> before i bring kurt in, steve man bonn's feud with national security adviser h.r. mcmaster making headlines for the past week now. and many wondering if president trump should consider letting bannon go. including the editorial board of the "wall street journal," no less. so this is a couple quotes from today's journal. mr. trump may worry about the damage mr. bannon and his allies could do to his administration if he's no longer part of the white house team, but if his minions continue to vilify his colleagues inside the white house, how can anyone tell the difference? that's pretty strong words. it's from rupert murdoch-owned paper. how do you think they'll be perceived by president trump?
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>> i don't think he'll pay much attention to that, to the wall street journal. it's a conservative outlet but they've been pretty anti-trump. and i think for a good reason. >> really? you think the journal has been anti-trump? >> yeah, they have, of course. bre stevens who went to "the new york times" recently is a prime example of somebody whose an anti-trump voice from the journal. i'll tell you my personal opinion. i think everybody's safer having steve bannon inside the tent, keeping busy at the white house. >> you know him. you know steve bannon. you worked at breitbart, and you wrote this today for cnn news. is it any wonder north korea or any other adversary of the u.s. isn't scared by trump's threats? most regimes do all they can to suppress gossip and prevent stories of disorganization and lack of unity from appearing in public. so what do you think is going to happen next in the bannon-mcmaster feud?
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>> until there's a clear winner, it's going to continue escalating. i think for bannon, until he believes he's won and successfully had mcmaster removed from his position running the nsa. i think what you're seeing here is a complete inability, frankly, by the entry of kelly to stop or control anything that wasn't already happening before. think about this. we heard about how trump was so deferential to generals. well, on perhaps the most serious foreign policy situation unfolding right now that could define his presidency, he is putting out statements without running them by his chief of staff, who is also a general. you're seeing the complete open warfare between the national security advisor and senior white house strategist. in steve bannon and mcmaster. that's going on in open warfare in public view. is it any wonder that north korea -- you know what they're doing right now? they're publishing commemorative stamps celebrating the tremendous successes they've had at running the various ballistic
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missile tests. they're not afraid of anything the united states is doing. they're not afraid of president trump because president trump can't keep his own house in order, how could anyone really fear anything he has to say or do when all they have to do is look at his twitter feed and see he spends his advertisements and days attacking the free press, attacking his own attorney general, pitting his own staff against one another. i don't think that inspires fear in our enemies. >> do you agree with matt that everyone is better served by having bannon in the white house? he's more dangerous outside his role in the white house? >> i think on some level it comes down to what is he really know about some of the controversy that's gone on? >> would he take revenge? >> i think steve a very vindictive person. if he thought at the end of the day that he could outlast president trump or anyone inside the white house, he would. but i think the wild card here more than anything is the russian investigation. since it's centered on the campaign, remember, steve played a very active role when he was at breitbart in communicating
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with the campaign and played an active role running the campaign later on. how much he knows could have a significant impact on whether trump ever lets him go or not. >> he's a survivor, bannon. >> absolutely. >> without question. >> he is a survivor. do you think he is going anywhere? do you think he would go anywhere? >> i don't think so and the one thing about bannon is he's really trying to align himself with general kelly. he's told colleagues and aides that he believes that general kelly coming on board is a win for the nationalist in the white house. and he's tried to form an alliance based on their military history and the truth is that kelly is a very good friend of mcmaster. he's going to defend mcmaster. and he's not going to be amused with any sort of attacks against him. but at the end of the day, steve bannon actually took a demotion in a way when reince priebus. >> right. >> reince priebus left. because they were technically on the same level. and now general kelly is the chief of staff, handy is one step below him. so he knows who the new master is. i think he knows how to stay.
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he is a survivor, as you said. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> i appreciate it. when we come back, u.s. embassy employees in cuba suffering from a mystery illness tonight. cuba says it is launching an urgent investigation. we're going to tell you everything we know about the soviet espionage tactic that could be causing their serious health problems. hi. i'm the one clocking in... when you're clocking out. sensing your every move and automatically adjusting to help you stay effortlessly comfortable. there. i can even warm these to help you fall asleep faster. does your bed do that? oh. i don't actually talk. though i'm smart enough to. i'm the new sleep number 360 smart bed. let's meet at a sleep number store.
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introducing xfinity mobile. a new kind of network designed to save you money. breaking news and a bizarre mystery involving american diplomats in cuba. cuba's government is investigating a strange set of symptoms affecting u.s. embassy employees in havana. the state department employees believe several of them were subjected to akust stick attacks possibly by sonic devices. at least two serious health problems. i want to bring in correspondent patrick oppmann who was in havana and a former member of the joint chief of staff and retired chief of cia operations. this is fascinating. s patrick, let's talk about this. the state department addressed the situation in a briefing earlier today. let's take a listen and then we'll discuss. >> some u.s. government personnel who were working at our embassy in havana, cuba on
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official duty. so they were there on behalf of the u.s. embassy there. they've reported incidents that have caused a variety of physical symptoms. we don't have any definitive answers about the source or the cause of what we consider to be incidents. we can tell you that on may 23rd, the state department took further action. we asked two officials who were accredited at the embassy of cuba in the united states to depart the united states. those two individuals have departed the united states. we take the situation very seriously. >> okay. so patrick, those are some very vague comments from the state department. can you help us make sense of what went down, what's going on here. >> absolutely. and this is very mysterious. sounds like something straight out of a spy novel. when they talk about acoustic attacks, these are a little
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misleading. these are actually frequencies we're told the diplomats were being bombarded with, that they could not hear. the human area cannot hear these frequencies, but they had a physical impact on these diplomats working in havana. they began to feel ill. one diplomat had permanent hearing loss. and these frequencies can make you feel nausea, can give you headaches. you just don't feel right. it was happening in multiple locations. so it became very clear as the u.s. government began to investigate this that something was going on and in a place like cuba, you can't bring in these kinds of devices. very sophisticated devices we're told, don, without the government knowing about it. you certainly can't use them without the cuban government being aware of it. so the question is was this a deliberate attack on u.s. diplomats or was this an ease eavesdropping operation that ended up making people very, very ill because of the frequencies and the power of the devices being used. we just don't know. the u.s. government, we're told doesn't know.
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but the trail leads very quickly back to the cuban government. for months they've been demanding an explanation from authorities in cuba and they have not been getting the answers they want. in may eventually expelling two cuban diplomats from the united states in retaliation. and then today going public and essentially saying to the cuban government, despite the cuban government's denial has the u.s. just doesn't buy what the cuban government is telling the u.s. and that they hold the cuban government responsible for what has happened to these diplomats here. >> colonel layton, who and why? who would do this and why? >> well, one of the key possibilities here, don, is that it's just like the correspondent in havana mentioned. it could be right out of a spy novel and what we're talking about here is the intelligence services of cuba or russia. and the reason the russians would be involved in this is because they have researched acoustic weapons for many years and they've been looking at how they could possibly use them, not only to gain information but also to conduct attacks on
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personnel. and one of the big things they can do is target specific individuals using frequencies that are not necessarily discernible to the human ear, but can actually have huge physical effects on the human body. >> so steve, you have to admit it. it sounds like a mystery straight out of the cold war. do we have any idea who did this? >> oh, yeah. this is a bit of a blast from the past but not that far off the beaten path in terms of intelligence collections operations. i think we might be getting a little bit confused in terms of the attack idea. that's a little bit of intelligence jargon. you're talking about attacking a specific target. these are types of capabilities developed by the soviets and now the russians who are very good at it in the '50s and the '60s. when we talk about attacking, what they're actually doing is just collecting. they're using various energy sources. i apologize. i'm a liberal arts major.
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i'm not a physicist. but they use different types of energy to basically flood a building, flood a location to try to obtain information data that can be basically reflected back. it was an older capability that russians are very good at. i think that's why we're talking about the russians. in my assessment it's likely probably provided the equipment and perhaps the training as well. but that could have happened as much as 20 or 30 years ago. the cubans certainly have that capability now themselves. this is just sort of a classic collection operation which interestingly i think has for the most part been superceded by what the russians can do via the internet. they don't have to use these sort of arcane and older technologies. but the cubans can still do it. >> yeah, and it takes folks by surprise. colonel layton, has the u.s. ever used a acoustic attack on any other country?
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>> not to my knowledge, don. and we've done testing in the acoustic area bt we have never used them on specific targets. either specific individuals or entities in a hostile environment. so there are no records that indicate that anything like that has happened. >> why does it make people so ill? >> part of it is because the way in which the human ear, for example, operates. it operates within a certain frequency range. what happens if you go beyond that frequency range, it can actually affect things like balance. it can also affect the areas in which fluid is retained in the body. what that does is it actually affects the way in way blood, for example, can be pumped through the human heart. so it can make people ill in that way and make people ill in terms of how their brains actually operate. it can actually have the feeling of a concussion when they're dealing with or subjected to these kinds of signals. >> thank you all. i appreciate it. patrick, thank you. thanks for joining us. when we come back, president trump's inner circle rattled bay
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predawn raid on a home of paul manafort. will it tamp down the president's rhetoric on the russia investigation? we'll talk about it. ♪ hey, i'm the internet!
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special counsel robert mueller sending a message loud and clear on the home of paul manafort. let's discuss now. ben ferguson and mark lamont and syndicated talk radio host john fredricks and senior political comment cater charles blow. yes, this is going to be an interesting panel. john, i'm going the start with you. we learned today the fbi raided one-time trump campaign chairman paul manafort 's virginia home in late july. what's your reaction to that? >> he's a bad guy. that's the bottom line. you look at some of paul manafort's history and his background. you got to really question this. donald trump made two disastrous hires since he started to run for president and has been president. the worst was paul manafort. the second was anthony scaramucci.
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good thing he saw this and fired the two of them within a short period of time. this guy came into the campaign. >> didn't kelly fire scaramucci? >> listen, listen. >> seven days. >> he made a bad decision with scaramucci and he fired him. that decision was not made without the president's approval. he made a bad decision on paul manafort. he was a disaster in that campaign, no question about it, and he fired him when this stuff with the ukraine came out. >> but did he fire him or was it ivanka who wanted him to go? >> well, you know what? at the end of the day in that campaign, the president made the decision to bring him in. he made the decision to let him go. >> he made two bad choices, two bad hires. >> well, those were two bad hires, but my point is they were bad hires. having seen that, he was quick to fire them. he didn't throw good money after bad.
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>> paul manafort's in a heap of trouble. >> you think so? we'll let you make your point. why do you think he is in a heap of trouble? >> the ukrainian situation is very troubling, don. for what he did, the money flowing around there, how he got involved in that government. >> shouldn't he have extreme vetted him? >> perhaps. it was a bad hire. they didn't vet him enough. i don't want to be biased here. i was not a fan of paul manafort in the campaign. when he came in i thought things went off the rails. i thought that was the worst period of the campaign we had. >> if there's a universal moment where conservatives all said what is this guy doing here, referring to paul manafort? i was in the same camp you are. circumstances he said he's a bad guy. do you agree? >> i agree. i think everybody who knew his history at this moment -- >> why didn't you say something then? >> we did. >> i did. >> i was listening. >> i was exiled at that point
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from the campaign because i criticized him. the reason why is manafort, the whole reason he came in is manafort pitched himself to the president and was a good pitch. >> did everybody hear that? did everybody hear is that? >> which part? >> you were ex-ed out of the campaign. >> for sure. that's a tough part of the campaign. he was out and i said look, manafort's a bad guy. paul manafort pitched himself well. he walked in and said i know the delegate count. remember when we were talking about the delegates? that's how he got into that situation. he said i know how this works. >> charles, go ahead. >> there are many more bad hires he's made, including flynn and it's not simply that he didn't vet him. people kept saying to him these are not the people who should be around you. and he simply would not listen. not only did he not vet them, he refused to listen to counsel. and we have to be concerned, not just about people that he hired but what kinds of people are --
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is he attracted to? there's something about these kind of sleazy guys that he finds attractive. there's something about dictators that he finds attractive. he also has a fetish for the generals for whatever reason. there is something about power -- >> is there anything he likes you don't like? >> there are a lot of questions. he's right. >> there's not a fetish -- i actually don't believe he's listening, because if he did he wouldn't have shot off at the mouth about the transgendered people. he wouldn't be shooting off his mouth about north korea, because he didn't run any of that past, not even his chief of staff. let alone the generals in the field and the pentagon. [ overlapping dialog ] >> i let you finish. you talked a long time. what i'm saying is -- >> you don't like trump. well got it.
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>> i think he attracts a co-op courage. he sees that courage in people who make it on their own. >> the psycho babble mumbo jumbo. nothing is coming out of his mouth. >> listen, listen, listen, listen. listen, everyone. but to his point, there are a lot of questionable people around this president or who were involved in the campaign. all you have to do is look at flynn, same thing. start would the lock her up or whatever and now he had to be fired. there's a lot of questionable people. it says something about his choices. >> but here's the thing. >> go ahead. >> you just said a lot of people. >> a number of. there are a number. >> but if you look at manafort, manafort's problems are not going to be from the campaign. manafort's problems are from precampaign phase. it's from money involved long before he was even looking at it as a possible -- >> we don't know that. manafort was in that meeting in trump tower with the russian lawyer. how do we know? [ overlapping dialog ]
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>> there is a couple of things. one, don't know that. >> i think the evidence is pointing to the fact that this dealt with financial crimes and that you can't have financial crimes in a campaign with the campaign manager is f there is nothing there. >> no one's disputing there's an investigation about the campaign. the question is there other things pending because he was in the room? let me finish. we will find that out once we investigate. but the thing for me is this narrative of surprise. some things you don't know. some things catch you by surprise. every presidential administration has had missteps because somebody slips through the cracks. but people keep coming up who aren't even that difficult. you didn't need a deep investigation for manafort. even republicans who love everything that trump does, oh, manafort. >> it's 50 and we're talking about -- >> i haven't made any claim about quantity. what i'm making a claim is about the trump administration continues to seem to have this narrative of surprise around it. let me finish. two sources today said that the trump administration is surprised that a -- how could you be surprised that manafort
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has an investigation? that is bizarre. you have generals surprised trump tweeted out wild stuff. >> it said that two sources tell cnn that the warrant took trump team by surprise, quote, rattled a few cages of the inner circle. do you think he's going to stop referring to it as a russian hoax? >> no. >> he should, but he won't. >> there's a big point that we're missing which is mueller 's team is tight and they're not leaking. we've gotten kind of used the idea that as things happen we're going to know this happened in late july. we're just finding it out and not from leaks from mueller's >> exactly. >> so what they're investigating, you have no idea. i have no idea. we have no idea. they're not leaking. they are just doing -- >> hold on. i'm going to really tick you off then because i got to go to break. we'll be right back. (vo) unlimited is only as good as the network it's on.
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you'll be able to choose any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. whether you're on medicare now or turning 65 soon, it's a good time to get your ducks in a row. duck: quack! call to request your free decision guide now. because the time to think about tomorrow is today. allergytry new xyzal®.ou have symptoms like these for relief is as effective at hour 24 as hour one. so be wise all take new xyzal®. back now with my panel. and yes, they were talking during the break. ben, you were trying to make a point. >> i think the manafort thing is there a lot of people getting there now because they hate the president instead of looking at
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the reality. what we saw from one leak that came out last week is they said hey, we're not seeing lot of collusion, but when what we are going to move on to is financial crimes, and we think that's a more fertile ground there is fertile ground to be looked at with paul manafort. he had to literally as an american here say i'm a foreign agent and register with the government as a foreign agent. but let's not try to act as if somehow this was in the white house. >> did you feel the same? >> this is fertile ground in the white house too. >> who on his team said that? i'm curious. >> there was a leak that came out last week, and that was their quote in "the washington post." >> i know you got to love that. >> it's not like it was conservative. >> no, no, no, you don't know if i love them or not. >> but you don't hate them. >> what i'm saying is this. i want to know if that -- they say it came from one of the 16 lawyers on that team. that's what i'm trying to figure out. >> what i'm saying is multiple people involved were quoted as saying that they were moving to financial crimes would completely make sense on why you
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would go before a judge and say that you have something to go before. i think you want it to somehow be desperately involved in the campaign. >> you say me? >> i'm saying you, yes. i'm saying i think you would love this to be directly about the campaign. >> that sounds psycho. [ overlapping dialog ] >> what are my motivations? ben, you need to come to my house and find out what i really like. >> don lemon. >> i feel like, i feel like we're in a bar. >> paul manafort for things he did when he had nothing to do with donald trump, trump tower, trump campaign or anything else. >> how do we know that? >> how do you know that. listen. stop, stop, stop, stop. stop, stop. that doesn't matter. what does that have to do with the presidency? he was still the campaign chairman of donald trump's campaign. >> but he got fired. >> so what? he was still involved. he was still involved. all right. let's talk about this. this is a clip. this is a clip from senator -- a
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senior senator from wisconsin, ron johnson. listen to this. >> i'm not going to speak for john mccain. you know, he has a brain tumor right now. that vote occurred at 1:30 in the morning. some of that might have factored in. >> really? he just had recovered from getting the brain tumor remove and flew all the way to washington, d.c. but you really think that played a factor in his judgment call? >> again, i don't know exactly what -- we really thought that -- i don't want to speak for any senator. i really thought john was going to vote yes at 10:30 at night. by 1:00, 1:30, he voted no. in terms of what was on his mind. >> so to echo the reporter, really? come on. >> this is one thing to me that isn't even funny. you a senator, i don't care who you are, you're republican or democrat, you're fighting for your life. you brain cancer.
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you come back to cast your vote. no one should question whether it was a medically induced vote because of a condition that you have. i think this that was bush league by senator johnson. i think that was embarrassing. i think he should apologize for it. i disagree with john mccain's vote. >> responded in quotes today i have nothing but respect for him, and the vote came at the end of a long day for everyone heavy did not apologize. >> that's the worst apology ever. it's like a trump apology. but it's the height of arrogance to think that the only reason someone would vote against this ball is because of a brain cancer. how about the fact that the bill was unworkable? how about the fact that they had no intention of passing legislation? they only wanted to alter it. how about dozens of other republicans who were outraged who also said no. >> how about the entire senate lives in an alternate universe. they raised money and campaigned on repealing and replacing obamacare. they have nothing. they lied to their donors.
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they lied to their people. and now they want to blame john mccain? now they want to blame mccain? despicable. >> john mccain had intricate knowledge of the health care system because he was actually dealing with it in the moment. >> wh at blue apron, we're building a better food system.
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a load of nonsense, that's north korea's take on president trump as pyongyang levels a new specific threat at a u.s. territory. what will president trump do now? and were employees at the u.s. embassy in cuba targeted with a covert device? hearing loss for some in havana and an acusick attack. >> bizarre. good morning, welcome to "early start," i'm christine romans. >> i'm miguel


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