Skip to main content

tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  September 3, 2017 10:00am-11:00am PDT

10:00 am
how many other countries around the world we have these wonderful relationships also have human rights problems? we have this selective policy that seems to work on the whim of how the president feels on a given day. >> you have a policy that really says to me that the military option is always the first option. the military option should be the last option. when you look at increase in the military budget, $64 billion to $74 billion. when you look at cutting the state department's budget. you look at rolling back the gains we've made in terms of just normal relations with cuba. when you look at the president talking about really pulling back on the iran nuclear deal. you're talking about an administration that really sees the world in a very mill itaristic. everybody, stand by. we are in the middle of a special extended edition of "state of the union." . we are following breaking
10:01 am
news this morning. north korea claiming it has successful tested a hydrogen bomb. observers say today's blast is the most powerful bomb north korea has exploded. the north koreans also released pictures of leader kim jong-un inspecting what they call a super explosive hydrogen bomb that can fit on their intercontinental ballistic missiles. the u.s., south korea, china, russia and japan are among the countries condemning north korea's actions. as for president trump, he's going to meet with his national security team later today and the president also sent a series of sunday morning tweets. north korea has conducted a major nuclear test. their words and actions continue to be very hostile and dangerous to the united states. north korea is a rogue nation which has become a great threat and embarrassment to china which is trying to help but with little success. south korea is finding, as i have told them, that their talk of appeasement with north korea will not work. they only understand one thing.
10:02 am
cnn's will ripley is in tokyo, one of the only western journalists to spend significant time inside north korea. will, you just returned from pyongyang yesterday. your 14th trip. what do you think this test means? >> reporter: well, this test is sending a very strong message to the united states and the trump administration, dana. it is a message of defiance and it is a message that north korea will not back down. that was the message that was reiterated to us repeatedly when we were meeting with government officials in pyongyang all last week. the north koreans continue to be furious over a number of things. they're furious about the joint military drills regularly scheduled that wrapped up last week, two-week drills that the united states and south korea engage in every year and every year the regime is infuriated by that. they've launched their intermediate range missile over hokkaido, japan's northern island. when the u.s. conducted a missile intercept test when they were bombing drills in north
10:03 am
korea and the resusouth korean of force, north korea decided to act. initially putting out statements calling on the united states to reverse its long-standing position of refusing to recognize that north korea's geopolitical influence has shifted. north korea wants to be recognized as a nuclear power. the united states has said that north korea must denuclearize or they won't sit down for talks. at least that was the long-held position and north korea just refuses to accept that. then of course, they're still furious, and have been for several weeks, over president trump's rhetoric, his "fire and fury" remarks, threats of raining down destruction on their country saying that the u.s. nuclear arsenal was "locked and load loeloaded." we see with this largest nuclear test to date was their fiscal response to that, their most provocative act ever. >> will ripley, thank you so much for joining us this morning from tokyo. joining me now here in washington is the top democrat
10:04 am
on the house intelligence committee, congressman adam schiff of california. thank you so much for coming in. >> you bet. >> first question is about what north korea announced, that they detonated a hydrogen bomb and that it is -- that they have the capability to place it on top of an icbm. do you think that claim is legit based on what we know from our intelligence sources? >> i think we can tell from the usgs information already that this was a much more powerful weapon. it will take some days or weeks to determine whether this was a boosted fission device. i think we have skepticism they are already mount this on an xwl icbm. if this is not true today, it is a grave threat to the united states and one that we have to respond to. >> you do believe the north korean claim that they tested a
10:05 am
hydrogen bomb is accurate sg. >> we don't know yet. it is certainly a much more powerful weapon than they have tested before, six more times than what they have tested in the past. it certainly could be a fusion device or a boosted fission device. we'll make the determination in the days to come but it certainly underscores the heightened importance of our getting klein to work with us more aggressively to cut off trade to north korea. it does mean i think we're going to have to start imposing secondary sanctions, that is sanctions on other countries doing business with north korea. we have got to be aiming for a cessation of these programs in the first instance, and then hope that will lead to a negotiation where we can actually roll back these programs. but certainly another very disturbing sign. >> let's talk about south korea. while all this is happening,
10:06 am
"the washington post" is reporting that the president has instructed advisors to prepare to withdraw from a free trade agreement with south korea. in addition to that, the from ez president is accusing south korea from pursuing a policy of appeasement. this morning the president tweeted, south korea is finding as i told them that their appeasement with south korea will not work, they only understand one thing. is that the right approach? >> no. i'm sure pyongyang enjoys seeing us fight with our own ally in the region. i'm not sure what the president's point is, particularly today at a time when south korea is feeling very threatened, as indeed we are, to be lashing out at south korea and say they are making a mistake or doing things wrong. we need to be working hand in hand with south korea and with japan and with our other allies. we need to work cohesively to with china to choke off fuel and other supplies from north korea. why we would want to show
10:07 am
divisions with south korea right now makes no sense at all. >> the president will be meeting later today with his national security team. he is not the first president to deal with these very tough choices, and that is the nuclear process that is going on in north korea, trying to deal with it diplomatically, having the threat of military force behind it. when he talks about fire and fury though, or when he did in the past several weeks, do you think that that is the right approach? >> i think these erratic and often bellicose tweets are not productive. that could be kouscounterproduc with a regime like north korea. i don't think that makes much sense. it also could cause them to miscalculate in a way that could really escalate things. i think a far better approach, frankly, is to look at lessons we learned in how we dealt with iran and how we dealt with the soviet union in terms of either getting a cessation or roll-back
10:08 am
of their nuclear programs. there are some good templates for us to use, but none of them involve the fiery kind of rhetoric that's more appropriate for pyongyang than washington. so let's strategize with our allies about how we can maximize pressu pressure. at the end of the day it all starts with china. the timing of the test is as much aimed at china as it is the united states. china's hosting -- president xi is hosting this big summit, so it is a direct affront to china. they ought to be heavily motivated to do something. china obviously doesn't want to see a collapse of the north regime and a unified peninsula under western allied control, but nonetheless, there is a lot more china can do if we give china the right incentives. >> there is. and the trump administration has been trying with china, just like, again, his predecessors. he hasn't been that successful but we'll see if that changes. congressman, we have a lot more to talk about and a whole host of topics so stick around. we're also going to talk
10:09 am
about reports saying special counsel robert mueller has a copy of a trump letter setting real reasons why he fired james comey. we'll talk about that next. discover card. hey. what can you tell me about your new social security alerts? oh! we'll alert you if we find your social security number on any one of thousands of risky sites, so you'll be in the know. ooh. sushi. ugh. being in the know is a good thing. sign up online for free. discover social security alerts. [ male announcer ] with customink, you can design custom t-shirts and other great products for every occasion -- from the first day of school to game day and everything in between. with the best collection of styles and graphics to choose from, it's easy to go online and create custom t-shirts and more for all of life's events. ♪
10:10 am
[ all shouting ] get free shipping and on-time delivery guaranteed. go to to get started today. tha...oh, burnt-on gravy?ie. ...gotta rinse that. nope. no way. nada. really? dish issues? throw it all in. new cascade platinum powers through... even burnt-on gravy. nice. cascade. moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis was intense. my mom's pain from i wondered if she could do the stuff she does for us which is kinda, a lot. and if that pain could mean something worse. joint pain could mean joint damage. enbrel helps relieve joint pain, and helps stop further damage enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections.
10:11 am
serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you've been someplace where fungal infections are common. or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. since enbrel, my mom's back to being my mom. visit and use the joint damage simulator to see how joint damage could progress. ask about enbrel. enbrel. fda approved for over 18 years. helping small businesses.ut, jamie -- damage your vehicle? we got you covered. [ glass shatters ] property damage? that's what general liability's for. what?! -injured employee? -ow. workers' comp helps you pay for a replacement.
10:12 am
what's happening? this is carla. how's it going? and if anything comes up, our experts are standing by. ♪ boo! ronoh really?g's going on at schwab. thank you clients? well jd power did just rank them highest in investor satisfaction with full service brokerage firms... again. and online equity trades are only $4.95... i mean you can't have low cost and be full service. it's impossible. it's like having your cake and eating it too. ask your broker if they offer award-winning full service and low costs. how am i going to explain this? if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. schwab, a modern approach to wealth management.
10:13 am
the union." i'm dana bash. we are back with the breaking news on north korea. i'm joined by congressman, adam schiff. ranking member of the house intelligence committee. we learned this week that president trump's attorney, long-time attorney of the trump organization, michael cohen, during the beginning of the campaign during the primary season reached out to the kremlin for assistance in
10:14 am
building a trump tower in moscow. again, this was while president trump's campaign was under way. how does that factor into your investigation? >> i think it is very significant. we had requested documents from mr. cohen and not being satisfied, we subpoenaed mr. cohen for whatever records were relevant to our investigation. it means, among other things, the president was dishonest when the president said during the campaign he had no business in russia, wasn't pursuing no business in russia. so yet another misleading statement by the administration about their relationship with russia. it is also significant because if they were pursuing business in russia during the campaign it might have influenced positions the candidate took in a more pro-russian direction. after all, if they were going to criticize putin and russia, that would diminish the chances that this deal would go through. so i think it is very significant. we obviously want to get to the bottom of it. we expect at some point we'll have mr. cohen come in and
10:15 am
testify. we'll also expect i think mr. seder to come in and testify. >> felix seder, the man who was born in russia, was a russian immigrant, but also had been trying to coordinate this for the trump organization. just quickly on this, how significant will it also be to find out in those deal talks who the financing and where the financing was going to come from? >> this is i think part of a broader concern. that is the whole range of allegations about potential money laundering or financial entanglement. this is a tactic that the russians have used elsewhere. if there was any kind of financial transactions, either illicit or legal, that nonetheless russians could hold over the president's head because he's denied having any financial interests in russia or with the russians, that could be leveraged on the president's future actions.
10:16 am
>> congressman, you have zastard to get a lot of these documents that you have started to subpoena. is there an early answer? was there an attempt to money launder? >> i can't comment on the evidence, but i think that is one of the more serious allegations that we need to look at, that i think bob mueller needs to look at. anything that could shape u.s. policy as a continuing influence is among the most serious of allegations. >> "the new york times" reported this week that special counsel robert mueller has a letter, a document, that appears to show the real reason why president trump fired james comey. it was a document that president trump worked on allegedly with stephen miller, one of his top aides. have you seen the document is. >> i have not seen the document. we wrote to the white house after the claim was made that the president had tapes of his discussions with comey to ask about anything memorializing any conversations with comey. they -- they first responded by tweet, then by letter saying they didn't have any such thing.
10:17 am
if this is responsive to our letter, they need to produce it. it is probably far past time for our committee to subpoena the white house to make sure we get all relevant documents. >> that means you know what you read in the newspaper. having said that you are an experienced prosecutor and you have been investigating this. if the president and stephen miller said explicitly that they were -- that he was firing james comey because of the russia investigation, is that obstruction of justice? >> it certainly is further evidence of potential obstruction of justice and something that mr. mueller would have to consider. it is something i think our committee also needs to get to the bottom of. but certainly it is consistent or would be consistent with what the president himself admitted. and the fact that it is in such sharp contrast to what they initially said, that this was about his handling of the clinton e-mail investigation, is further evidence of an intent to conceal the real motives. so, yes, it is potential evidence of obstruction of justice. >> congressman adam schiff, it is going to be a busy fall.
10:18 am
thank you for coming in, especially on the north korean news this morning. >> you bet. our breaking news -- is north korea claiming it tested what appears to be the most powerful nuclear bomb so far? in a moment we're going to sneak with the former cia and nsa director, michael haden. stay with us. badda boom. that's it? he means book direct at for the lowest price on our rooms guaranteed. plus earn free nights and instant rewards at check-in. yeah. like i said. book now at [he has a new business teaching lessons. rodney wanted to know how his business was doing... he got quickbooks. it organizes all his accounts, so he can see his bottom line. ahhh...that's a profit. know where you stand instantly. visit quickbooks-dot-com.
10:19 am
peobut they're different.ind it's nice to remove artificial ingredients. kind never had to. we choose real ingredients like almonds, peanuts and a drizzle of dark chocolate. give kind a try. ♪
10:20 am
when only the best will do... one of a kind tempur-pedic delivers. only tempur material precisely conforms to your weight, shape and temperature. it provides up to twice as much pressure relieving power, so you won't toss and turn. and tempur-pedic is the best at minimizing motion transfer from your partner. you'll wake up, feeling like a champion. now through september 17th, save up to $500 on select adjustable sets. find your exclusive retailer at people would ask me that we traveled,ntries what is your nationality and i would always answer hispanic. so when i got my ancestry dna results it was a shocker. i'm from all nations. it puts a hunger in your heart to want to know more.
10:21 am
that's why at comcast we're continuing to make4/7. our services more reliable than ever. like technology that can update itself. an advanced fiber-network infrustructure. new, more reliable equipment for your home. and a new culture built around customer service. it all adds up to our most reliable network ever.
10:22 am
one that keeps you connected to what matters most. welcome back to "state of the union." i'm dana bash. we are following the breaking news -- north korea claiming it has successful tested a hydrogen bomb. this just hours after the country released photos of leader kim jong-un observing what the north koreans called a super explosive hydrogen bomb being loaded on to an intercontinental ballistic missile. joining us now is our national security analyst, retired general michael hayden, former director of the cia and the nsa. and he is also a consultant on the national security -- excuse me, on national security for private companies, including those who do business with the u.s. government. thank you so much for coming in.
10:23 am
first question is what every american waking up wants to know -- how much danger is the united states in right now? >> well, we're still along that predictable arc that i think most people watching this problem expected. i mean the timing may have been a bit of a surprise. but the north, i believe, was going to do this. this is their plan, there is where they were going. they're doing it for their own purposes. i don't mean to criticize the current administration, i think some of the things they've done to amp up pressure on the north koreans have been absolutely appropriate. but you realize the sum total, after seven months of the trump administration, is that north korea is much further along in its missile and its nuclear program. just the way it performed when president obama was president and president bush was president. there is a real consistency here. >> a scary consistency. >> indeed. >> you did tell my colleague jake tapper, that you believe --
10:24 am
you said this on august 9th -- that trump has a key coherent plan on north korea and it was inartfully executed. a lot has changed, as you mentioned. do you still believe the white house has a reasonable plan to deal with north korea? >> i do. still inartfully executed. you got to watch the tweets. i think we had an unforced error over the weekend when we brought up our free trade agreement with our south korean friends, on whom we rely and with whom we will have to cooperate for this problem. just out of the blue. the president indicated he may want to renegotiate that agreement. i think that's probably wrong on the merits and it certainly is not integrated into a broader approach to northeast asia. so i think that hurts. still unartfully executed. but again, i think our policy is to impress upon the chinese how seriously we view this.
10:25 am
north korea's gone along this predictable arc. the unpredictable actor has been us. we've actually acted with more sound and fury than i think the chinese are accustomed to. i think we've done that with purpose, which is, in essence, to discomfort the chinese with the current situation. >> exactly. and in all fairness -- i think this is what you were pointing out with the part of the trump policy on north korea that you like -- that everything that has been tried for the past few decades has not worked. so why not rattle the cages, particularly of the chinese? but it hasn't worked. >> not so far. and it is not cost-free, day that. 18, 24 months ago i pointed out that we probably would be where we are now on this arc with the north koreans getting more capable and more dangerous. we would be there almost certainly within our current definition of acceptable risk. and clearly what the trump administration has decided to do was to embrace a bit more risk, to be a bit more activist, be a
10:26 am
bit more destabilizing of the peace, of the stability of the peninsula. not to influence the north koreans, they're not influenceable, but to influence the chinese to amp up their pressure. i do think there is an absolute marked difference between the chinese response to intercontinental ballistic missile tests and a nuclear test. i actually do think that's a bit of a political red line for the chinese. so that gives us an opportunity here to try to cooperate with the chinese to get the region to do more. >> so president trump is going to meet with his national security team later today. if you were in that meeting, on that note, on china, or maybe anything else you want to share, what would you be arguing for on how to act right now? >> so first of all, the military options are all bad. they're not zero. the chairman of the joint chiefs has pointed out, they are never no military options. so we've got them, but none of them are good. i think diplomatic isolation, check, we've got that.
10:27 am
this may be the time now to really hammer home of, we're deathly serious about your performance, china, on sanctions. not just the ones that were recently passed by the security council, but maybe even amping up the sanctions between china and north korea. north korea's dependent on the chinese for their energy. they can actually pull the string there. >> and what do you think is the difference -- what makes you think that trying to do that now, with china, is going to be anymore successful than it was yesterday? >> as bad as you and i and the president view what kim jong-un did yesterday with the nuclear test, on balance? i don't think that was aimed at us. i think that was aimed at the chinese. i think that was little kim saying to xi jinping, you can't make me stop. and there i think is a proposition that mr. xi might
10:28 am
not be able to accept. >> you talk about sort of the erratic policy and some of the tweets. do you have confidence that president trump can handle this? >> i have confidence that he has a very good team that will lay out very good options. i fear two things. number one, the stray electron. all right? the tweet that just goes out at 5:00 a.m. and unintentionally creates effects that make this go to a place that we don't want it to go. the other one is this. all right? we just got into a duel with the north korean chairman, with kim jong-un. if we had a choice of weapons, i think it was a bad choice to get into a hyperbole contest with that kind of guy. the only thing i fear, mr. president, it is not a manhood issue. this is a national security issue. don't let your pride get ahead of wise policy here. >> that is very sound advice. thank you so much. we hope people are watching in the white house. general hayden, thank you for
10:29 am
coming in, especially on short notice with this breaking news. appreciate it. we will continue to watch developments on north korea, but also ahead -- some republicans are warning president trump against ending obama-era programs, especially those for thousands of young immigrants. stay with us. hi, i'm johnny bench.
10:30 am
after a hall of fame career, it's no wonder why i use blue-emu arthritis cream. blue-emu's non-greasy, deep-penetrating formula gets down deep into those joints for big time pain relief.
10:31 am
blue-emu, it works fast and you won't stink. t-mobile announces zero down for all. now, get the whole family the hottest smartphone brands like samsung galaxy for zero down. plus, get 4 unlimited lines for 40 bucks a month, taxes and fees included. more reasons why t-mobile is america's best unlimited network.
10:32 am
10:33 am
what about the dreamers? what about people who came here when they were children? >> the dreamers, it is a tough situation. >> should they have to leave to? >> legally -- if they're with their parents, it depends. it sounds cold and it sounds hard. we have a country that's going
10:34 am
to hell. we have to have a system where people are really in our country. >> that was more than two years ago when president trump was beginning his presidential run, vowing to end the program known as daca but also saying he wants to treat dreamers, young people who came to this country illegally with their parents with great heart. now the white house is admitting the decision, which is smoesed to supposed to be announced by tuesday, has been weighing on him. thanks to my panel for sticking with us. senator, you were involved in a lot of interrepublican fights in your time in congress about immigration. how do you see this playing out? >> well, look. i hope the president abides by the rule of law which is that the law does not allow him -- any president -- to uniformly just stop enforcing the law. and so i think -- hopefully he will enforce the law and say that there's an opportunity here for some sort of deal to be
10:35 am
worked out where the president gets something that he wants and i think the american public wants, which is better border enforcement, whether that means a wall or increased funding for border security, maybe in exchange for some sort of program on these, quote, dreamers. but for the president to just act unilaterally is wrong, number one. number two, you've heard members of congress, both parties, saying we need to do something about this. fine, i think the president should work with them to do something but should get something that the american public wants which is no changes in our immigration policy until we secure the border. >> secretary, i want you to respond but as you do, i want our viewers to have the context that you worked for george w. bush, the last republican president to try to get comprehensive immigration. >> that's right. that's right. so, the idea of the daca being unconstituti unconstitutional, a lot of presidents have used the idea of
10:36 am
deferred action. if you think it is unconstitutional, let's fix the law, fix it. that would be like some people today passing a dream act or a bridge act that will get you to a dream act. but we've had a love/hate relationship with immigration. we had our 1924 immigration quotas. we had the chinese exclusion act. i think this decision, if the decision is let's deport these kids, i think this would be one of the most notorious immigration decisions in our history and i think it would be a permanent stain, a permanent blemish on the u.s. forever. >> congresswoman, you are currently serving in the house of representatives and the house speak other, republican house speaker, is trying to get the president not to act unilaterally and instead let congress handle it. let's listen. >> i actually don't think he should do that. i believe that this is something that congress has to fix. >> okay.
10:37 am
let's get real. the reason why this program is in place in the first place, done by executive decision, by president obama, is because congress can't get its act together on immigration. >> they've tried for years to present and pass legislation for comprehensive ill gratimmigrati reform. actually in 2010 we passed the dream act for our young people and it got stalled in the senate. first of all, let me just say this decision should be weighing on the president very, very heavily. it is wrong to create this kind of anxiety. these mixed messages. first of all, it is creating near, anxiety. our young people here, 800,000 of them, are worried to death about what's going to happen to them. they played by the rules. they've gone to school. they've contributed to the economy. they're americans. and we have legislation. we know we can get this passed in a bipartisan way so we should do that.
10:38 am
but in the meantime, we should not allow the anxiety and fears of these children to continue and the president should do the right thing and not do it. >> a few things here. first of all, there are 124,000 dreamers in texas right now who are living with the anxiety that they are going to have to -- they could be uprooted from their families. they are the average age of dreamers is 6 years old when they came over. they are here because of the decisions of their parents, not because of their own decisions. for most of them, this is the only country that they know. so as -- it would be heartless in fact to take them away. just to respond to senator santorum, the issue here is -- every president has made decisions about the prioritization of what they're going to do on immigration. if you listen to donald trump, he says he wants to get rid of criminals. these are not criminals. these are people who are in school. they are working. 90% of them have jobs. these are people who are contributing. so the idea that the president
10:39 am
can't say, you know, i'm going to prioritize other people in this process is wrong. that's why courts have upheld this. we are dealing with an artificial deadline. it is only a bunch ofgswho are threatening to sue. he could say, let's see how it goes in the courts. but in the meantime, congress should act. and he should get behind that action. >> with all due respect, prioritization is not saying you can't remove somebody. there's a big difference. to conflate the two is completely wrong. you are not telling the truth. >> i am telling the truth! >> the reality is -- the president can in fact prioritize who he can remove. >> let's just say that you have this argument that it is not constitutional. but, we agree that we need to save these kids. these kids are americans. they don't know how to speak spanish. they have american values. they play little league. they are as american as anyone else. and to kick them out -- so let's
10:40 am
change the law. but, is it a matter of we don't think it is constitutional? or are there people in this country who feel threatened by immigration, who feel threatened that people who look different than we do are coming here. >> with all due respect, to suggest that people who want to limit immigration in this country -- we have record levels of legal immigration. >> and it is going up. >> we have over 1 million people a year, more than any time in the history of this country. we have the largest percentage of immigrants, almost tied with the historical high as a percentage of immigrants living in this country. we have an absolute number by far the most immigrants in this countries. to suggest that anyone who wants to have a policy, we need to examine this to see the impact on working men and women in this country? >> absolutely. >> whose wages have been depressed for 20 years? >> that's not so easy. >> excuse me. i'm not blaming it on immigrants. >> you are!
10:41 am
>> i'm saying it is rational for us to have a discussion. and somehow if you have a discussion and you are a bigot if you do so is offensive to a whole bunch -- >> there are people who feel threatened by immigrants and they are using this concept of unconstitutional as -- if i can just say one thing. an economy grows with the number of workers in the economy and the productivity of those economy. our native born workforce is not growing fast enough to grow the economy. without immigration, without immigration, we cannot grow! >> what you are a -- >> to suggest immigration patterns we have today is beneficial to america is a ill legitimate discussion. >> we have a moral and ethical responsibility to try to keep families together, not tear them apart. secondly, you know, i'm thinking of do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
10:42 am
what about my children? my grandchildren hanging in limbo like this, given all of the dynamics that this administration has been -- and anxiety they've created? so minimally we should say, no, we're not going to -- >> what if there is a deal in the works to say, let the dre dreamers stay. and in return, the president gets his money for his wall. >> lefheavens, no! first of all, young people should not be held hostage to this racist, backwards policy. >> i appreciate -- i appreciate that rick santorum and donald trump want to use 800,000 people's lives as a bargaining chip for an unnecessary wall or other things. that's not what leadership is. leadership is actually saying what's right or wrong to do. the fact that if you think it's wrong, don't use them as a bargaining chip. >> a lot of people will be saying this is a leadership moment for the president.
10:43 am
and if he makes a tough decision to get rid of daca, then he is showing leadership. real leadership for the president would be to go up against hit base and say, my wisdom, my sense of american values tells me that this is wrong. that would be leadership. >> what would be leadership is the president enforcing the law instead of the president seeing himself above the law. we have a president in the past, the last president, to do that on a routine basis. this president hopefully will obey the law. if the president wants to put forward an option to go to the congress to fix this, as i will remind my democratic colleagues here, president obama had a democratic congress -- my democratic colleagues that president obama had two years, we had complete control of the house and senate and didn't move any daca, didn't move anything. the idea there is now this outrage that republicans are not cooperating, you know what the deal has always been. border security first. republicans have said that from the very beginning. we have not -- >> in fairness, democrats and
10:44 am
republicans tried to get the dreamers through and it didn't work. >> that's true. >> when democrats controlled in 2009 and 2010, the president did nothing on this issue. >> but -- neither did other presidents. there's one simple -- >> doesn't matter. we didn't have control. they had control. president bush never had controlled. president obama had control -- >> the reason we have undocumented workers is because our laws do not serve our economy. and that is the problem. unless congress acts and the executive branch acts our laws don't work. we need 1 million people in farming. >> we don't enforce our laws. >> our laws don't work. we don't have enough immigrants coming in. >> daca is not about undocumented immigrant immigrants. it is about kids who were brought here, they've given their addresses, they're not living in the shadows. they have people who actually
10:45 am
said i'm going to register essentially with the federal government. now president trump is threatening to use the information that they have voluntarily given to the administration, to the executive branch, to police them out of the country. >> look, i think , i'm a compassionate man. i have seven children. i am concerned about kids. why would i oppose something like this? because i am aware of the unintended consequences of doing this very compassionate act that we've seen over and over again. that is when we give amnesty to a group of people, you encourage more people to come over. then they say -- >> you change the laws so that they don't need to come over. >> hold on now. >> you're using all the buzzwords. >> three on one. i have seven kids. i know all about it. bottom line is, there are unintended consequences to this very -- what sounds to be very humane act which is to encourage
10:46 am
more parents and more children to come over here and illegally get into the -- >> the only way -- >> they know once they get here we'll be compassionate. >> the only way to discourage illegal immigration is by changing our laws. so that -- >> just open our borders. >> no, no, no. let me give you an example. let me give you an example. >> mr. secretary, how many more do we need? 2 million? 3 million? 5 million? >> i don't know. the marketplace will tell us. we need 1 million farmers. we need 1 million farm workers in the country. oh, stop it. we need 1 million more farm workers in the country. >> didn't use platitudes. >> no. i'm talking numbers. you don't understand how the economy works. this whole idea of -- >> zbiguys, i think the audienc can hear you better -- >> hold on with how many more. let me just tell you one example. we need about 1 million farm
10:47 am
workers, people to pick lettuce, people to go out and pick tomatoes. >> we should have a program that allows temporary workers. >> we should. and we don't. because we don't have a program, hundreds of thousands come in illegally. >> what's about family values? what about keeping families together? we are talking about a policy that destroys families, that keeps families apart. we need to make sure that whatever decision the president makes, hopefully he'll do the right thing, as a way to keep families together, keep our young people here who have played by the rules and support -- i think we do have bipartisan support -- for an effort to pass a bill that would allow -- >> i want to ask just -- end this, just going into raw politics. we talked a lot about the policy. if president trump doesn't keep his promise, what will your base, the conservative base, do? will they retaliate against him? >> i mean i can't predict that.
10:48 am
i think there is a lot of folks who will be very disappointed because the president has made the focus on immigration to be about making sure that american workers have the opportunity to get good paying jobs and see their wages increase. we've seen an increase in employment. we've seen an increase in wages. it has not been as robust as the president likes. like it or not, several hundred thousand of these dreamers are actually working in the workplace right now. you can make the argument they are taking jobs away from other folks who would be working. you can say, no, that's not the case but a lot of people in this country believe that that is the case and the president has to account for that. >> okay. if anybody had any doubt why this is tough, they don't now after watching this discussion. we have a lot more to talk about. stand by. up next, we are going to see some advice from one president to another. cnn has obtained a copy of the letter president obama left for his successor, president trump.
10:49 am
10:50 am
10:51 am
10:52 am
10:53 am
i just went to the oval ochs and found this beautiful letter from president obama. it was really very nice of him to do that, and we will cherish that. we will keep that, and we won't even tell the press what's in that letter. that was president trump talking about the parting letter president obama left for him on the day of his inauguration. president obama seen here through the window of the oval office slipping the letter into the resolute desk. addressed to mr. president. president trump has shown the letter to white house visitors and for the first time cnn has an exclusive lure at the context of that, president obama offered congratulations and abouts
10:54 am
office. congratulations on a remarkable run. millions placed their hopes in you and all of us regardless of party should foe pror expanded prosperity during your tenure. a unique office without a clear blueprint of success. i don't know any advice will be particularly helpful. first, we both have been blessed in different ways with great good fortune. not everyone is so lucky. it's up to us to do everything we can to build more ladders of success for every child and family that's willing to work hard. second, american leadership in this world really is indispensable. it's up to us through action and example to sustain the international order that's expanded steadily since the end of the cold war and upon which our own wealth and safety depend. third, we are just temporary occupants of this office. that makes us guardians of those democratic institutions and trickses like rule of law, separation of powers, equal
10:55 am
protection and sieve be liberties our forbearers fought and bled for. regardless of the push and pull of daily politics it's up to us to lead her to instruments of our democracy at least as strong as we found them. finally, take time in the rush of events and responsibilities for friends and family. they'll get you through the inevitable rough patches. michelle and i wish you and melania the very best as you embark on this great adventure and know we stand ready to help in any ways which we can. godspeed, b.o., barack obama. what did you make of that letter? >> i think the letter was very gracious a clear road map for a new administration coming in, and also i think it was especially magnanimous of president obama given the fact it donald trump led the birther movement in an effort to delegitimize off fur african-american president. he prose above that and moved
10:56 am
forward to give some ideas with words of wisdom i think should be listened to. >> a lot of now, seven, eight months in, i guess, some of these sentences are kind of looked at with a different context now, and one of them, mr. secretary, i want you to respond to this and highlight. we are temporary occupants of this office that makes is guardians of those democratic institutions and trishgss like rule of law, separation of powers, equal protection and sieve's liberties that our forbear ers fought and bled for >> a hidden message and the concern because president trump come -- all of a sudden congress, new institutions. a wise message there as well that, you know, this is a job that starts and ends. four years, eight years but don't settle in so much. i thought it was a very good message, actually.
10:57 am
>> senator? i mean, you -- >> i thought you were going to her. >> i was going to ask, knowing you were originally one of the opponents for the republican nomination for president, and you were, you ran as many others did as somebody who knows the ways of washington. here you have president obama now, we know, first time trying to explain in this private letter to donald trump who had never been in washington, worked in washington at all, the ways. do you think that he, president trump, is heeding this advice? >> well, i think what president obama did, you're probably right. give a rudimentary understanding here's what the white house is with maybe the expectation the president, president trump, needed something like that. probably wouldn't have given a similar letter to someone who had a lot of experience in washington, d.c. no, i don't think president trump is necessarily heeded a lot of that advice. that's pretty obvious, that he's
10:58 am
decided to do things differently. and that's shaken up a lot of people in this town and for good or evil. i still believe that we're too early in this process to really make a decision on how donald trump is doing. i think there's a lot of things he's done through administration efforts that got this economy going and positive things he's been able to do. still very, very much short on the legislative front and hopefully in the next month we'll see these fortunes change. >> talk about the human and personal part of this. you saw it was about eight months ago president trump genuinely was touched by barack obama reaching out and saying the things they and they did at least, for a week i don't know, have kind of a good, seems to be a good working relationship as president and former president. that didn't last long. >> no. within a few weeks president trump accused president obama of spying on him or using the deep
10:59 am
state against him and i think more importantly, i think the rule of law issues are incredibly vital and actually i've been listening for years to conservatives argue how the presidency, is a presidency of limited powers. there is no king. in fact, you were just talking about that a little while ago on daca. here we have a president who's attacked judges, attacks the press. those are all ways in which we limit the power of office holders, and i think he has done everything to ignore the advice that a president actually is not a king and has limited powers. congress is a quo equal brianch republicans and democrats show he thinks they're boss. i hope he sees the letter on cnn and rers that he is a person, the president is a very strong president of the united states, but not with unlimited power in that everything he does to attack judges, attack the press,
11:00 am
basically saying no accountability on me. >> leave it there. thank you for joining me for an extended "state of the union." i am dana bash. thank you so much for watching. hello, everyone. thank you for joining me this sunday. i'm fredricka whitfield. president trump is responding to north korea's most powerful yushg letter test to date adding to today's escalating tensions with the rogue nation as he and the first lady leave church today. here's that exchange just a couple hours ago. >> mr. president -- [ inaudible ] korea? >> [ inaudible ]. >> all right. the president not ruling out a military strike on north korea and summoning his national security team to discuss the latest provocation. the president even threatening to