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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  October 5, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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the autopsy report surrounding the shooter, there's speculation the shooter may have had some sort of brain abnorm ailty or terminal illness, and perhaps that's what may have caused him to go on this rampage. >> they're saying no accomplishes, the sheriff said he received some help. are you able to collar phi at all? >> officials are saying tonight that there were no accomplices, but yesterday the sheriff said that he did receive some help. it is possible for both things to be true many of course help can come in many forms, someone could have helped him acquire some ammunition, the person may have been totally in the dark about what was to happen. it's possible for both things to be true. joining me now. phillip mudd and juliet keim.
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we were talking in the last hour about that note. what are your thoughts if it's not a suicide note? >> i'm looking at the nature of this person's personality. he played the slots, all about numbers, all about calculations, you look at the incredible planning for this operation. from every step, from the cameras outside the room, to choosing a room that had the maximum prospect to hit as many people as possible. i'm looking at this and asking a couple questions, one in particular. was this a representation of how fe fass tid yous he was. >> a way to plan this out? >> correct. >> there's another question we have to answer, with the amount of explosives and weapons in the car, and particularly the amount of material in the room, the weapons in the room. was that the only target he considered? i haven't seen people talking about that, i'm wondering whether he thought there would be an additional target he would go after in that broad swath of territory he could see from the room.
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>> the idea of a note with operational details, reminders to himself. it's an interesting idea, unless you've been in a kinetic situation like this, unless you're had that experience of the adrenaline and decision making in the process. it can be a difficult thing. all your thoughts can go out the window in a time like this. >> absolutely. >> when we heard there may be notes left in the room, i fully expected it to be a manifesto. i figured we would have already gotten to motive by now. he seens to have done some meticulous planning with this. there's some similarities to what he did and other mass shootings. there was another shooting in july of 2016 when the five dallas police officers were killed and the shooter was up
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top in a garage in a covered garage and firing down. also, people said that this was probably the first time that the police in the history of the united states policing were outgunned by an adversary, it's not correct either. there have been some other times. they were outgunned by the two miami bank robbers. >> there was an l.a. bank robber, wasn't there? >> yes, the north hollywood shooting was in february of 1997, in that case, the police had to go to a gun store a couple blocks away, and take shotguns and long guns from there. there's going to be a lot of discussion going-forward. we don't want to have the presence in a country like america of an overly militarized police force. but by the same token, in these instanc instances, those officers were severely. >> a lot of cities have changed the way s.w.a.t. teams gather.
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>> they have these hercules teams on duty at all time. in new york and d.c. as well, a all officers are expected to train to respond to incidents like this. >> that's correct. the first change was after columbine. the first responders are there, it's an offduty cop, offduty sheriff's detective, campus police officer. >> in the navy yard, there was a bike kopasz well. >> we had these units, we were going wait a minute. this takes a tactical skill set, you need a homogenous team. after columbine, we decided to integrate training. active shooter protocols, the state, local and federal officials, we all conduct those
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operations similarly. you know the terminology, the vernacular. if four or five folks assemble, they can make the assault on the room. >> the shooter apparently booked rooms at or scouted. help push the investigation forward. how does that help? it points to or opens up a range of potential motives, i guess? >> motives and potential co-conspirators, what they're doing, at other places that they're looking at might elicit evidence about others who were involved. was he with someone, was he talking to someone how did he get there? was he dropped off. you're going to have a series of touch points that become areas where they can extend this investigation. the second piece is the piece that none of us sitting here can believe is still open, this large, which is the motivation piece. normally by this stage, four days later, you have a range of theorys, and a lot of them get x 'd out, and you figure out what
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it is relatively quickly. there's no sort of -- none of us are confident with the theory of the case right now in terms of motivation. and that will continue until we can have an explanation. maybe we have to admit there isn't an ahad a moment in this one. maybe there is something that we will never understand as rational human beings of what led to this moment. that's where we are. >> we want to table this discussion for the moment. we're getting more information about the exploding targets found in the shooter's car. tom forman tonight has that. >> what can 50 pounds of exploding target compound do? just watch. that's how much authorities say they found in the shooter's car. and youtube is filled with videos of people setting off other large amounts of exploding
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targets were made so people could see what they hit as it exploded opinion the company says it's not sure if the vegas shooter had actual tanarite products or another brand. the only proper use is as a shot indicator. it's not designed to destroy property. still, the easy availability and potential for misuse triggered this bulletin four years ago, the fbi has identified multiple incidents where criminals and extremists have explored the possibility of employing the binary explosive mixture
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obtained from exploding targets to commit criminal and terrorist acts. if the las vegas gunman had placed some of that material down at the street level and aimed at it with the coped rifle -- >> the binary explosives could have been detonated with rifle slugs from those rifles, from the 32nd floor. one for the effect of creating chaos among a crowd. and secondly, as a result of the explosion,wide spread shrapnel reigning on the crowd. >> the implications are profound. considering how often these materials are simply used for unintended purposes. accidentally endangering and injuring people. >> is everybody ready? >> a lawyer for the woman taking this video says she was 150 feet away from less than 3 pounds of explosive target material. not tanarite, but a similar product inside a refrigerator.
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>> hey, hey, call 911. >> oh, my god. >> a fragment from the blast nearly ripped off her right hand. >> how much potential destructive power was packed into this gunman's car? if he set off all 50 pounds of this stuff, which investigators say they found. it could have flung shrapnel the length of a football field in all directions. that could mean we would be very likely talking about even more people dead and wounded. anderson? >> it's incredible to see those images. back now with the panel. i had no idea about the explosive capacity of this stuff. >> i think one of the problems in this case, we look at that explosive capacity and jump to quick conclusions. when you lock at these cases over decades, the quick conclusions are never the right ones. material that can be detonated by a rifle shot. was he thinking of detonating a
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car bomb from a distance. the second, the sheriff is talking about the potential he may have wanted to escape, which seems unreal. could this have been a diversion. he shoots a car that's 500 yards away? i think there are a lot of explanations we don't understand yet. >> even the columbine guys, if i remember correctly, they planned to detonate a lot of explosives and draw police away from the school. >> absolutely. there are probably two different theorys. we know the purpose of tanarite, we used it in training. we use them for exploding targets. you hit the target and you can see it explode from a long distance away. there's a u until if i and purpose to it. you put a bunch of it together and you have a bunch of rounds there too. which would cook off in the heat that would come off of that. then you turn it into a
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fragmentation device. was it the killer's intent to use it as a diversion. to cause the cops to focus on that, while he went somewhere else? possibly dressed in the garb of a hotel worker, or was it to miami and kill? because the rounds that were in the car would have cooked off. up next mother on one of the other las vegas locations that may have been targeted by the shooter. a live report on where the killer rented a room. later, special counsel mueller's team talks with a former russian spy.
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more now on tonight's breaking news on the las vegas massacre location. the shooter may have been looking at other locations. including the life is beautiful festival in las vegas just two weekends ago. gary tuchman joins us with more. you were at the site of the condo, what can you tell us? >> well, anderson, you're right, it's disturbing to know the shooter stayed in this building in las vegas.
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adjacent to another music festival site a week before the massacre he carried out. he could have been scoping it out, he could have been planning to have carried out the mass murder here, we just don't know. if he was, it would have been logistically much easier because at the mandalay bay, he had to fire the shots a quarter mile. this is where the festival was held. this was part of the area. a stage was here, and people went out into the street, they were right next to the hotel. it was an alternative rock, rock, hip-hop festival. there were dozens of them, with lord, blink 182. it would have been easy for him to carry out a mass murder here, we don't know. we went inside this hotel and talked to people. a lot of motorcycles here, if you can hear the noise. we asked employees if they saw this man. anything he was carrying.
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they couldn't comment. they were leaving that to the police, once again, we don't know why he was hear, i can assure you it wasn't for any good reason. >> there are reports he also looked at staying at a different location near the festival, is that true? >> right, right across the street from the condominium is the el cortese hotel. he made reservations to stay there, but it was sold out. a spokesman from the hotel says they have no record of him trying to make a reservation. if they weren't sold out he couldn't have stayed there if he wanted to. they had no recollection or record of him trying to stay at the el cortese. >> thank you very much, gary tuchman. you look at that building, it's not as tall as the mandalay, may have been easier, if he chose that location to be identified but again, we don't know why he would have rented out a place. >> we don't. and frankly that's not the question i would be having during the investigation.
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you get a volume of information after the identification of the subject. that's everything from phone and e-mail to locational information. from that hotel, i also think you'd be looking for video of him in the room. is there material that suggests he had weapons in there. over the course of the last few days, you have information about where he was. why he rented rooms. publicly the questions for those of motivation. why did he rent there. i'm saying, how does that match up with who he called, who he texted, who he e-mailed. were there financial transactions at that time. you're building a three dimensional picture of his life, what we're seeing is about 2%. >> the tip of the iceberg. >> yes. >> sun suh the famous chinese general famously said, that just
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as water doesn't retain it's shape, the conditions in warfare never stay constant. to take this from the counter terrorism men. neither do our responses to these. we have to look at this, we can't overreact. we have to get out in front of this, and make sure that we're thinking as the terrorists are, i had a number of folks in the hotel business call me today. people sending me messages, what can we do. how can we better prepare our hotels? it's not just hotels. you're going to have high buildings. if you make it so someone can't break a window out, they'll figure out how to get to the roof. we have to figure out the means to stop this. the fear is copycats. in the case of this shooter, i thought there was an interesting parallel with some type of brain trauma possibly or medical issue in his brain.
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that was the same issue with charles whitman, the clock tower shooter in 1966, was there a disconnect up top. we live in a country where we treasure our civil lip erts, we have to find a sweet spot in the middle. we don't want a police state, but we don't want these mass shootings, how do we do that? police do study, whether it's a terrorist attack police forces around the country look at these things. the tactics by terrorists or killers are always evolving. >> that's right, they call them formally after military action reports. in homeland security they call it the feedback loop of misery. the only benefit you're going to get out of something like this, is if you learn to do it better next time.
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our active shooter protocols, run, hide, and then engage, in that order. all come from columbine, the lessons of those children who stayed put, who eventually were killed. and we've learned that from columbine, the israelis have the same active shooter protocols for citizens, of course. we are talking about defense, how do we get police ready, i think this is why this debate about weapons and guns is so prevalent in this case. maybe even more so than we saw in connecticut after sandy hook. i think part of it has to do with the nature of the weaponry, and how fast it is, another is the recognition that it's really hard to stop everyone from getting on the 50th floor or the 22nd floor, or this hotel or that hotel. there's a certain amount of defense we have to put into our homeland security efforts, one of the reasons to explain why we may be getting some participate
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support for one little piece of this, is that you can't change the gun from semiautomatic to automatic. there's no defense that's going to always stop this from happening. let's get some of this away from people so we can minimize the risk. >> just knowing somebody for that length of time, you would think she would have a sense of chips on his shoulder he had, or gripes he had, or resentments he had, which i would assume law enforcement would want to know about. >> i think the public conversation is going too quickly to say, don't judge. that's not the question, anderson. the question is, every single sliver of what we spoke about
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and even slivers that are negatives, let's say we have a supposition that because he shot up the strip and he was a gambler, this is financial rela related. we never had money problems and he didn't talk about money. the fact that that never came up in conversation is significant. it doesn't relate to his motive, it relates to taking something off the table, that's huge. >> taking stuff off the table is as important at this stage. >> yes. our breaking news on the russia investigation. robert mueller's team met with the author of that controversial and somewhat salacious russia dossier last summer. we have details on that next. looking for clear answers for your retirement plan?
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jaw dropping news on the russia investigation tonight. a former russian spy met with a member of the team. >> investigators working for robert mueller met with christopher steele, steele is the former mi 6 officer who put
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together the dossier, really a series of memos detailing alleged russian efforts to aid trump's presidential campaign. he was paid first by anti-trump and then democrats. the counsel is working to determine whether any campaign associates and russian operatives broke u.s. law. we don't know what information steele may have provided to mueller's team. while the most salacious allegations in the dossier haven't been verified, it's the broad assertion that russia was waging a campaign to interfere in the election. >> there's been questions about the legitimacy of the information in the dossier. do you know what the intelligence community's take is on it? >> we learned late last year,
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top officials at the fbi and cia discussed, including parts of this dossier in the official intelligence document that was prepared on russian meddling. the intelligence community didn't want to include it, because they didn't want to have to explain parts of the dossier they were able to corroborate. they were also concerned about using sources and methods they used to do so. if james comey was presented the dozen yeah, the president-elect would think it was an attempt to hold leverage over him. as we know, that's what later up happening. he said he thought they were trying to hold the dossier over him. >> how significant is this, do you think that mueller's team met with -- >> i think it is significant and
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it shows you that they take the dossier very seriously. what they're doing is trying to figure out his sources and what his sources sources were. there is a question about how much of the dossier was valid and how much wasn't. i think it plays into the larger question of collusion. because that is what christopher steele was really at. you know, there's a lot of frustration, and we heard it yesterday from the senators on the intelligence committee that they cannot get to chris steele, he won't sit down with them. >> it's interesting he would go with mueller's team and not with -- >> he's a known quantity for the fbi, he's worked for them. so they know who he is. and much less likely to talk to senators who leak. >> most of the attention about the dossier has been about the more salacious documents. there's stuff in there that could help mueller's
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investigators determine whether trump operatives and suspected russian operatives broke the law. that's one of the things investigators are looking at more close ly and could be more substantial rather than the unseemly charges floated here and there in the dossier. >> the white house did such a full court press attacking this dossier, and now to hear that mueller's team has met with this guy. >> right, i think cnn had it initially, reporting that it existed. was it buzz feed put it out? >> cnn has still not reported on the salacious details inside. >> i think it hurt the cause of this dossier. because it was easy to sort of look at -- you know, for the interrupt team to look at the salacious details and dismiss everything. as being so unbelievable or out to get interrupt. i think you're sort of on to something about one of the things that this tells me there
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are multiple investigations going on. but the ability to talk to people, to get information that congressional investigations are not going to be able to get they're going to leave no stone unturned. >> i think it's interesting since people threw water on it earlier this year, and said, there's no truth to this. i forget what he said, but he threw doubt on it. the acting fbi director was suspicious. >> you know, the president has challenged it. people who worked for him have challenged it and those are people clearly that mueller's going to interview. he's got to get their story and chris steele's story. we're going to take a quick break. we're going to talk about
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something the president said tonight. it may be the calm before the storm, trying to figure out what that meant, if it meant anything at all. t-mobile's unlimited now includes netflix on us. that's right. netflix on us. get 4 unlimited lines for just $40 bucks each. taxes and fees included.
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more breaking news out of washington tonight, listen to what the president said tonight after dinner with his top military commanders at the white house. >> you know what this represents, we all do. >> what's your story. [ inaudible ] >> what storm, mr. president. >> we have the world's greatest military people, i'll tell you that. thank you all for coming. >> thank you. >> what storm, mr. president. >> you'll find out. >> lots to discuss with the panel. reports of dissension in the highest ranks of the administration. if there is a big storm coming, would telegraph that. >> no. first of all, i don't find it reassuring, i must say, when a president comes out and says that. it's kind of like fire and fury
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to me. and you kind of wonder -- a president shouldn't be doing this. he shouldn't be telegraphing, even though he's not say iing what's going on. >> he likes to create drama. i couldn't get an answer. there were three u.s. green berets killed in niger. it might be in anticipation of some kind of retaliation coming, nobody could say for sure. >> it could be nothing. it could be donald trump talks, it could be psychological warfare. he wants to keep our enemies offbalance. it could be -- i'm not saying this is what he wants, but we were talking during the break about the emotional exhaustion. psychological warfare toll sort of game your adversaries.
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there could be an impact on the american public. i believe that the public right now is inundated with bad news, and chaos. and one of the jobs of a president, you know, he was the consoler in chief yesterday, i think america kind of needs that, i really hope that this is not him sort of promiscuously or flagrantly tossing around rhetoric that he doesn't really mean. >> it's also interesting, he said it, and then he tried to change the subject on to praising military leaders and talking about what's going on in the room. >> they pushed him on it, when the reporters, very quickly said, what storm. he sort of wanted to back off, it was odd. >> on a week like this where he's had so much drama in his white house. second tillerson had to come out and have a press conference to say, there's nothing to see here, we're all good. >> to show the president is smart? >> right. that's problematic for this white house. he shouldn't be fueling the fire and adding more drama.
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there's enough drama. >> that's what he does, right? >> he's all drama. all the time. when you say he should be calming the storm, he's predicting one. another one. >> stay tuned. >> exactly, another tv show. >> it does sort of echo the whole -- well, we're going to see about that, or we'll see in a couple weeks, there is -- that's an ongoing -- >> you don't know if it's a trumpian verbal tick we're going to address that in a couple weeks, stay tuned. when it includes the phrase, calm before the storm. >> the president planning to decertify -- secretary mattis told congress this week. it's within in our interest to remain in the d.l., he's wary of decertifying the deal? >> right. this is a president whose decided that he needs to decertify the deal which by the
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way, throws it in the lap of congress. >> what does it mean? >> you have 60 days for congress to figure out what to do which is a dangerous situation. they can't do anything in 60 days. if at that point they don't do anything, you slap the sanctions back on. they have 60 days to figure out whether they want to change inspections, or they want to change the deal, it's very complicated, and for congress to have to do this is difficult. >> the fact that you can make an argument this is a bad iran deal. what bothers me, this is an administration that is not united over whether this is a good deal or we should do this, they're publicly not united. >> the secretary of defense, you can make the case that the secretary of defense is insubordinate to the president. they openly disagree with him.
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i've honestly never seen an administration where many people go into a room and come out and disagree with the president. >> there's no real appetite for it on the hill. i've spoken to people that want it to go away. they don't see this as a priority at all. >> trump keeps heaping new responsibilities on congress. nobody was expecting to have to deal with daca and now it looks like they might. basically, this is a way for trump to repudiate the iran deal, as he vowed he would on the campaign trail. by absolving himself of responsibility. it's not clear what will happen then. >> he's doing that on guns, letting congress figure out what to do on gun control. he's doing it on daca as you say. every time he dumps in their lap, they seem to get nothing done.
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it's a dangerous proposition, particularly when you're talking about an iran nuclear deal. >> you also have the white house continuing to say, everything is fine between the secretary of state and the president. i can't imagine the president was pleased with this whole moron allegations, that tillerson said he was a moron. >> he was playing to an audience of one once again, just like sarah huckabee sanders does every day. he came out and did what he had to do. he said he wanted to play to trump and pretend that everything was good. >> a spokesman for the state department came and and said he doesn't use that kind of language. >> it doesn't matter what he said, we know the implication. the president was furious about it, and that's our reporting.
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we know the relationship between tillerson and the president probably can't be repaired to the point where tillerson becomes a long termer. he's not. >> if you call the president a moron. and maybe he is i'm not in the administration, i can't judge that. macron, if you call him a moron you need to go. you should just resign, if you believe that, you should go. >> trump is in a box right now, secretary malt is has disagreed with him, tillerson has called him names privately. >> how many people from the inner circle can he afford to -- >> he can't. >> we need to take a quick break. more on this discussion ahead. pressure relieving power, so you won't toss and turn. and tempur-pedic is the best at minimizing motion transfer from your partner. so you won't be disturbed during the night.
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we've been talking about the chaos in the inner circle, in the trump administration, that's
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gone on for quite a while now. but has reached another crescendo. the subsequent denials and reaction to that. it's interesting the president is taking great issue with that, and said that it just -- it's not true, and -- but i mean, his denial was sort of, it wasn't even that tillerson hadn't called him a moron, it was that he hadn't threatened to resign. >> we know the president was furious when he heard about this. and i think the president probably doesn't know what the exact truth is. tillerson is denying it. but there are people obviously who heard it, who leaked this story. and the president's furious, and i'm sure tillerson is not going to stay forever. the president now has this cabinet that he's not -- he's not comfortable with, right? >> tillerson wouldn't deny the fact that he used --
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>> the press secretary. >> which has the effect of confirming that yes, he probably did. which is certainly how trump took the news, and which is why he according to nbc news, blew up for two hours today, and why general kelly was pulled off the flight yesterday, this morning? >> we were told -- >> this is a guy who ran a major company. not used to being the second fiddle, third fiddle or fourth fiddle. if he feels this way about the president, and if the state department is demoralized, this is his career capstone. he's the ceo of exxon. to be secretary of state has enormous prestige and to go kind of shrinking out less than a year on the job would be i think detrimental to his reputation and damaging to his ego. >> it's not as if -- >> that's a different question. >> jared kushner is the one who is dealing with middle east peace. it's not --
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>> this is a guy who never -- i mean, i think he just basically worked at exxon his whole career, right, but obviously he was very effective and very successful there. so not only does he have the thing where he's used to being the number one guy in charge, but there are people who can be very successful in one job or one industry. it's not transferable to another. and it seems like -- drt reportedly hired him because he looked good. i mean, bob corker was too short. you know, maybe nikki haley wasn't -- mitt romney he sort of too wide with, but he looked like a secretary of state. >> corker made the point, which we've all spoken about, yesterday that the only thing standing between chaos in this country is tillerson, mattis and kelly, general kelly. and i think that there may be a
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reason that tillerson stays because he believes he has to get some things done. and i think you would have to ask this question about the generals and about tillerson, which is patriotism is one thing and you serve because you're patriotic, but when you're no longer effective, isn't that time to go. >> i mean, he hasn't really been effective all in all. from the beginning he's had problems at the state department. he's always felt undermined by jared kushner and other people at the white house, bannon even. it's a good question. you have to wonder why he's sticking around. >> a moving tribute to a victim of the las vegas tragedy. heather milton lost her husband. i spoke with heather on tuesday. she shared how much they loved one another and country music star heard about our conversation took the stage in nashville to talk about sonny and heather. we'll have that for you in a moment. ico has been saving people money for over 75 years. hey, big guy! come on in! let me guess your weight! win a prize!
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humira & go. our recent online sales success seems a little... strange?nk na. ever since we switched to fedex ground business has been great. they're affordable and fast... maybe "too affordable and fast." what if... "people" aren't buying these books online, but "they" are buying them to protect their secrets?!?! hi bill. if that is your real name.
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it's william actually. hmph! affordable, fast fedex ground. but he hasoke up wwork to so he took aleve. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve. all day strong. mother now on the lives lost in las vegas. a crowd gathered for a vinl ill, las vegas police officer charleston heart field who was off duty at the time of the shooting. in cities across america people are paying tribute to lives lost. that included the country music community. on tuesday i spoke to heather hilton. her husband was killed.
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he was just 29. he died protecting the love of his life. here is what heather told me. >> there was never a minute that i doubted his love for me. >> especially sunday night. >> yeah. >> he saved your life. >> he did. and he would do it over and over again. >> do you want to talk about that night at all? >> yeah. i mean, it's horrifically vivid. it's not an image that probably will ever be out of my mind. but we were having such a good time and probably -- >> going to concerts was your -- >> yeah. we loved going to concerts. every single month we went to a concert. >> you're wearing his favorite -- >> eric church was his guy and we came to vegas to see eric
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church and actually, we have tickets to go home night to see him in nashville. >> eric church heard about that moment. he took to the stage last night in nashville and paid tribute to heather and sonny. watch. >> last night somebody sent me a video of a lady named heather milton, she was talking to anderson cooper on cnn, and she had on our church choir tour shirt. and he said what brought you to vegas and she goes we went there to see eric church because he was sonny, her husband who died, it was his guy. and we went there to see his guy. and then she said we have tickets for the grand ollie on the part opry tomorrow night.
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and as over section through row f, there's some empty seats and that's their seats. and i'm going to tell you something, the reason i'm here, the reason i'm here tonight is because of heather mel ton, her husband sonny, who died, and every person that was there. because i'm going to tell you something. i saw that crowd. i saw them with their hands in the air. i saw them -- i saw them with boots in the air. and what i saw that moment in time that was frozen, there's no amount of bullets that can take away. none. >> eric church in nashville. tomorrow night we're going to bring you a special report called las vegas lost, remembering the victims, an uninterrupted hour dedicated to the lives that were lost. each of their stories, memories shared by family and by friends,
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each of those who are no longer with us. that's at 9:00 p.m. eastern tomorrow night. thanks for watching 360. it's time to hand it over to don lemon. cnn tonight starts right now. new clues in the vegs of the worst mass shooting in modern american history. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. here is what we're learning right now. gunman stephen paddock may have been casing other possible targets before he even checked into the mandalay bay, he rented an airbnb room at a las vegas condo that overlooked the life is beautiful music festival. and back in august a person named stephen paddock reserved a room in chicago overlooking the lal apalooza festival. what we know for sure. the deadly gunfire he unleashed on the festival sunday night. this video shows the hee rirk efforts to save the wounded and i warn you, it is graphic. >> the