tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 13, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
the nuclear accord with iran. breaking news at this hour reince priebus. hour chief national security contour joins us with details. what do we know about this meeting? >> it shows mueller's probe is extending to the senior most adviser to the president. we know this meeting took place today. priebus' lawyer says he's happy to cooperate. this took place at mueller's offices in washington. priebus not just due to his position relative, but it was chairman of the committee during the campaign when meddling began. it's the main topic of the special counsel's probe. >> do we know who else mueller is interested in interviewing from the president's inner
circle? >> it extends to some of the senior most adviser, that includes his current communications directors hope hicks, his current general counsel, don mcgann. his former press secretary spicer. keith kellogg has already been interviewed. and the topics are the firing of jim comey and michael flynn, but that famous meeting on air force one when the president and his advisers were crafting the initial misleading explanation of that trump tower meeting between his john, donald trump jr. who lawyers who said they were offering damaging information on hillary clinton. so a number of topics and paths the special counsel is going down with these interviews. >> jim, thanks. i want to get the panel's take. michael, how big a concern was
is this for people in the white house? >> it's kind of a concern on two levels , from a political concern about the president and his fate. there's concern that the higher up mueller goes in the administration, the more serious is investigation looks both in terms of the underlying russia agenci allegations. these are in some cases like young people or people who aren't necessarily wealthy, they have to get lawyers and think about their own personal -- >> it can cause -- >> tens of thousands of dollars. there's the potential that you could end up in real legal jeopardy as well as the political concerns for your boss. >> jeff, what does this mean in terms of where the investigation is? >> you can't tell for sure, but
it certainly means it's not at the beginning. priebus is very high up. and investigators don't start by interviewing the top people. they also -- we always talk in this circumstances about interviews, but the most important thing of any investigation is getting documents, is getting e-mails, memos, and that's what the questioning usually consists of. the mueller team has enough documents they feel it's important to interview reince priebus at this point. this will not be the last time they interview him. repeated interviews are common, but it does suggest that they are pretty far along in their investigation and certainly not at the beginning anymore. >> you talk about a guy who was in the room when it happened, to para phrase hamilton. he traveled with the president as many did probably more than
most chief of staffs would have. >> furl back in the administration. a lot of times you needed to be close to the candidate at the time because he would listen to the last person he sought information from, and they just wanted to have access for the president. reince priebus was in that category, he and others in the top echelon spent a lot of time with the president. clearly they have a lot of information that would be helpful to mueller's investigation. generally they don't start at the top. the good things with this, priebus came out willingly and voluntarily. it's amazing how requests from mueller -- the best thing for
this president and the republican party is put this out there. >> there's no good part of a federal investigation when somebody from an fbi agent or mueller is going everywhere. this is going to be a complete investigation. we were talking about the timetable of where this is to jeffrey's point. we don't know where this administration yet. it will come to a conclusion when they interview donald trump if they get that opportunity. we knew back during white water that led to the eventual blue dress when bill clinton at the time was interviewed in the map room of the white house and the grand jury was actually shown via a video screen and you knew the investigation was nearing a close. but everyone who's interviewed has exposure. as a lawyer, i tell my clients that martha stewart went to jail for lying to investigators. when you have this white house and everyone in it who's been
allergic to the truth, this becomes a real problem as they're being interviewed. >> the same thing happened with bill clinton. he didn't get impeached -- he got in trouble because he lied about an affair. look, none of this is ever good for the president. i'll be curious to see how he reacts. he's already begun tweeting about pakistan and other things. anytime this investigation starts to get a little closer, a little closer, we start to see donald trump start tweeting things out for disinformation purposes. reince priebus you have to remember is not one of the necessary trump loyalists. >> he came relatively late to the party. >> he was not exactly on board in the beginning either. he was recognized for his political survival. but if it comes down to it, i
don't think he's going to protect the president. >> spicer reportedly took notes. >> both sean spicer and hicks, that moment on the plane on air force one when the president and his aides are drafting an initial statement in response to reports that there had been this meeting with the russians where somebody came and said -- >> for donald trump jr. initially the people said no, he wasn't drafting it, it was donald trump jr.'s lawyers. >> and the meeting was just about adoption and it turned out it was about an offer to provide damaging information on hillary clinton. and so it's things like that where the investigators are going to back to the people who were on the plane who were with the president drafting that initial statement, that includes sean spicer, hope hicks.
and the investigators are going to ask them very detailed questions about how that statement came to be and then compare that to the statements that other people made. more to talk about including the decision to decertify the iran deal. later, kids taken from central africa, sold to american families, sold, who thought they were adopting or fans. who could this happen? part two of our cnn investigation. >> what's today. >> i don't know. >> yes, you do. what's today? and with panera catering, there's more to go around. panera. food as it should be.
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the president is undoing two major pieces of the obama legacy. is he doi to him, this isn't about any of that. instead say critics, this is personal about negating most things from the obama administration. rine nobles has more on iran and backstroke. >> essentially what he did was say the administration was going to say hold cost sharing reduction payments. these are payments that are given to insurance companies to stabilize the insurance market under the affordable care act. now, this is a provision that was ruled unlawful by a federal court, it's something that republicans have criticized for
some time. we should point out the trump administration continued to do up until this month, and the reason being that it's very important to stabilize those insurance markets and there are many people, not just democrats, but republicans as well who are concerned that if these payments don't stay in place, that premiums for many americans could skyrocket. >> in terms of the iran deal, the president stopped short of doing that today? >> he did not rip it up by any stretch, anderson. instead he sent this provision to the congress, and now congress has 60 days to come up with a plan as it relates to iran. what he's hoping is that the congress comes back with something that is a lot tougher on iran with stricter sanctions and forcing them to adhere to the letter of the law as it comes to this deal. but it's important to point out that even the administration admits that iran has lived up to their end of the bargain. they're just upset they haven't followed the spirit of the law which is difficult to understand and put a finger on.
and there are members of his own administration including his secretary of state and his defense secretary who have recommended against this now it will be in the hand of congress to decide what's going to happen and the president said today if congress doesn't come up with a plan he likes, helping me just pull the united states out of this deal with iran. >> ryan nobles. appreciate that. former director of national telling us james clapper joins us now. president trump said iran was violating the spirit of this agreement. when you had full access to intelligence was that our assessment as well? and has that changed? >> well, i don't know exactly what that means. clearly there are ambiguities in the jcpoa, which we're very sensitive to. and the iranians are probably exploiting those ambiguities.
as others have said, they are in material compliance with the agreement. so i think this has huge implications for us. one, i think with the other members -- there are five other countries involved in this agreement, the other permanent members, the united nations security council in addition to germany and all of them aren't going to decertify. if the objective is to put more pressure on iran, we're going to find great difficulty putting humpty dumpty back together again and assembling the international coalition of sanctions which is what brought iran to the table in the first place. another dimension of this is how this is going to play in iran domestically. this plays to the hard liners in iran who were not in favor of any sort of engagement with the united states, and this plays right to their hand. as well with korea, i think the
notion of negotiation or diplomacy which is the only realistic way ahead here, north koreans are skeptical about the united states anyway, are probably not going to be interested in any negotiating from the united states. i do find it in con grewous that we're concerned about iran complying with the spirit when the russians are both in violation of both the spirit and the letter of the nuclear forces treaty. you don't hear much about that, and that's something the senate voted on. i don't know why we aren't concerned about that if we're concerned about iran not complying with the jcpoa. >> our allies aren't going to
decertify. there is notion from trump supporters this is kind of an opening by the president that this will lead to some sort of renegotiation of the entire agreement. do you think that's just a nonstarter? >> i do. it's going to be very hard starting with the other parties to the agreement. the immediate parties, let alone the other countries who are also involved in enforcion sanctions. it wasn't just the u.s. imposing sanctions on iran that brought them to the negotiating table. for me as i said before, if you give me a choice between a state-sponsored terrorism with a nuclear capability or a is it fair to state-sponsored terrorism without nuclear capability, it's going to i'd pick the latter. no one in the last administration for a moment who had any illusions about iran, and it's nefarious behavior. but i would have preferred to use what has been negotiated as
imperfect as it is as a building block and enforce it, the provisions of this. and i think house foreign afairs chairman has spoken to this. and then use that as a building block for addressing the other things that iran is doing that nobody likes. >> i want to ask you about senator corker who spoke to "the washington post." he expressed concern the president was inviting binary situations, choosing between war and north korea and iran with nuclear weapons. the president has neutered his secretary of state. i believe he said you cannot publicly castrate your own secretary of state without giving yourself that binary choice. >> senator corker being a senator can be more colorful about this than i would. i would certainly agree, though, that undermining his secretary of state, particularly with
respect to north korea and creating a binary choice where it's either fire and fury or destroying north korea or nothing. and the north koreans obviously find that threating, they play that to their domestic audience. this is very troublesome where that's the only choice. the reason it's troublesome for me having served on the peninsula many years ago is the fire and fury will not be limited to north of the demilitarized zone. this will necessarily spill over into the south and have terrible, terrible consequences. >> potential huge deathly toll on both sides of the border. >> exactly. >> general clapper, appreciate your time. all of this trump's decision on iran and the executive order on health care more instances of unraveling president obama's legacy.
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back now with the panel. it's not only decertifying the deal, the executive action on the foorld, pulling out of the paris accord act. a lot of things is reversing everything president obama tried to do. >> when the obama administration was ending, one of the things that the administration officials, the former administration officials worried dieply about was to extent to which so many of president obama's legacy was built not so much an legislative success, but a lot of things he was able to accomplish were executive action because the congress was reluctant to do anything, the republican congress. president trump has really in his administration taken advantage of that and rolled back regulations. they refersed things that they could reverse, and that's
because of the way president obama crafted his legacy over the years. >> donald trump as a citizen was very critical of president obama for using executive action so much. president trump's used it more than president obama did. >> nearly twice as much. today was a hell of a day. all donald trump has done was make insurance hardware expensive for poor people, destabilizing insurance markets and make it more likely iran is going to get a nuclear weapon. when you think about this, the reason being not that he has a vision for where he wants to go because no one up here can tell us what donald trump wants to do with the iran deal. he hasn't been able to articulate a plan. republicans own the fact that premiums are going to go up 20% because of the fact they are reducing these subsidies. they are going to own the fact these markets are destabilized. they're going to own the fact in
a few years, if congress done a lot make a decision on the iran deal, in 2018, the shalckles wil come off and they can resume their plan at a faster pace. >> today i'm actually going to defend donald trump today in some respects. it's not donald trump's fault that the insurance markets are going to be unstable or premiums are going up. it's barack obama's fault because the way that obamacare was structured. first of all, the part we need to understand is, yes, premiums are probably going to go up 20% if congress doesn't authorize these subsidies to stabilize markets next time for the short term but that's because of the way that obamacare was set up. the obamacare was passed with a section that did not have congress authorize -- it said congress had to authorize the
money for these subsidies. yes, it does, jeffrey. a federal court ruled it saw unconstitutional. what donald trump did was for the congress to authorize his money. >> until you're somebody today who is trying to actually afford not a bronze plan, but maybe even a silver plan, and now your premiums are going to up expo now and thentially. >> you act like it's happening all of a sudden today. >> the most amazing part about this, he's reintroducing junk plans into the system. you're going to have plans that don't cover maternity leave or the basic fundamentals. >> this is still part of the the overall problem with obamacare in a congress certainly needs to fix, but what happened today was not any of what you're saying. 116% of premiums going up in arizona was happening before what happened today. >> you know what happened, the
subsidies were also going up. 3% of people in the market -- it's illegal to care for people now? >> take that up with obamacare. decided you read it? sections 1401 and 1402. >> that section, one court held that is unconstitutional. that is not a resolved legal issue at all. it's similar to daca in that the president is saying, well, it's unconstitutional, so i have to get rid of it. that's not settled. what is settled is he got rid of it and people have to live with the consequences rather than letting the legal process go forward. >> but people are already living with the asks. >> the bottom line is what many on the left hate to acknowledge is that obamacare's not working, not only are the costs higher but the choices are lower. we have one-third of the county in the state that only have one state of health care. >> that's such a false prem. >> in 2018 if the health
insurance companies continue to bow out as they currently are, 1/2 of the county -- >> we're going to take a break. we'll have more when we come back including the president's call for the democrats to join him. directv has been rated #1 in customer satisfaction over cable for 17 years running. but some people still like cable. just like some people like banging their head on a low ceiling. drinking spoiled milk. camping in poison ivy. getting a papercut. and having their arm trapped in a vending machine. but for everyone else, there's directv. for #1 rated customer satisfaction over cable switch to directv. call 1-800-directv.
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we're talking about health care. the president scrapping health care subsidies. part of his latest effort that his republicans haven't been able to do. moments ago he tweeted this. money pouring into insurance companies profits turned guys of obamacare is over. they have made a fortune. dems must get smart and deal. is there any chance of that? >> yes, actually. but not with this. senator alexander and pat murray are working on something that would fix many of these problems. >> just the subsidies. >> donald trump is not attempting to go down that path. what we know is a fact.
tara and i are arguing over politics of the issue. but what we know, premiums will go up 20% to 25%. and the deficit will go up because of the actions donald trump took today. that is not a republican philosophy last time i checked and it's not an american philosophy as well. >> we made progress that we have democrats acknowledging we need to make fixes with obamacare. i think the plan that meadows have been dealing with helping to stabilize the insurance market, that is a good sherm fix to get us on the road through this next hump but at the end of the day republicans and democrats need to get to get for a long-term fix. that is a good short measure for getting through to the next step. >> why do republicans never -- >> no, because it's happened before. obamacare has over 100
republican amendments. let's not act like this hasn't happened before. >> i was on capitol hill when that was going on, and democrats were not exactly taking republicans out to dinner and having drinks over obamacare. it wasn't like that at all. it was quite a difficult process for republicans to actually get anything substantively into these bills and manipulations with pelosi pelosi and harry reid at the time to push this through. this is the problem with the way donald trump has approached obamacare and repealing and replacing this and not having the stake holders early on. republicans in congress, they have a lot of philosophy differences, but without the president being consistent, it's turned into a complete mess political and republicans have 30 days to get something done.
>> we are marching ever closer to the midterms in 2018. the closer we get to that there's going to be both sides not so much making a calculation on what can be fixed but who can be blamed for it. and the kind of discussion that we've had here today is going to be greater. if you assume premiums go up and insurance companies do pull out of the markets and there's a worsening of the situation at large, it's going to be democrats fighting to blame the republicans for it and trump and the republicans and trump trying to figure out how to deflect that. >> why would democrats work with republicans at this point. it's a perfect midterm wedge issue. >> and the democrats aren't going to be all that eager so take back ownership as bakari said of the issue if it looks like, if the polls are suggesting that in fact around the country republicans in districts are taking on water for this. >> and just to emphasize the
point, they have to do a budget where the government shuts down. they say they want to do income tax reform which is their big accomplishment they want. the president put daca on their laps. and today the president put iran on their plate. all of which suggests they're not going to do basically any of it. >> 30 legislative days left. >> can they make progress on nifany of that? >> they have to do a budget and the debt limit or there's financial chaos. but other than that -- i don't see any of it happening. >> republicans are committed to doing something with regard to obamacare. they know that they all campaigned for the last seven
years on repealing and replacing obamacare and many of them up for reelection, they have to get something done. some of these sherm measures will help, but overall they realize we need to increase the competition to lower costs. that will at least show the constituents back home they're putting in a good faith effort. >> it's ironny. what he's done is slash money for advertising for getting people to enroll on the exchanges. he's actually stopped enrolling people on sundays. you go to this new cutting back on insuring that low income individuals have the subsidies to actually purchase it. you asked a great question outside of gorsuch, there hasn't been anything done. he hasn't taken an idea that's gone through process and came out with a signature on the
desk. >> when we come back, part two of our cnn exclusive infection to what could be trafficking. families thinking they were adopting when in realty they were taken by their birth mothers and essentially sold. we investigate how this could have happened, next. >> happy birthday to you. u repeg you just said? my livestream won't load. (blows whistle). technical foul. wrong sport. wrong network. see you need unlimited on verizon it's america's largest most reliable 4g lte network. it won't let you down in places like this. even in the strike zone. (laughs). it's the red zone. pretty sure it is the strike zone. here use mine. alright. see you on the court champ. heads up! when it really, really matters you need the best network and the best unlimited. plans now start at $40 per line for four lines.
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an advanced fiber-network infrustructure. new, more reliable equipment for your home. and a new culture built around customer service. it all adds up to our most reliable network ever. one that keeps you connected to what matters most. last night we introduced you to two little girls who were adopted by loving faepz in the united states who believed they were orphans in need. turned out the two girls were taken from loving birth mothers and sold in what could be a child trafficking ring of the here's part two of our investigation, kids for sa"kids. >> we unwittingly placed an order for a child. the only trauma this poor kid ever experienced was because we
essentially placed an order for a child. she was home and happy with her mother and her family until we -- >> they selected her for us. >> jessica and adam davis say they were willing to pay thousands of dollars to adopt her from you go began detachment they were told by their adoption agency that ma ra had been orphaned, only to find out later that wasn't the case at all. ma da wasn't an orphan. she and her family were duped. they believe she was pulled from her home and placed in an orphan naj after the adoption agency found the american couple, buyers in a sense with money to adopt a child. the name of that adoption agency, european adoption consultants, head quartered in ohio. this couple developed a jung girl names vaio la.
they believe both girls were part of a wider scheme selling children from uganda so american families. both families reunited the girls with their families in uganda. >> was it hard to leave her? >> yes it was very hard. she still felt like my daughter. she still does. i knew she was where she was meant to be. >> and both families say all of the heart ache lies squarely at the feet of the european adoption consultants, which is under investigation by both the state department and the fbi. but was eac part of a scheme to traffic children for profit or perhaps were they simply unaware of what was going on in uganda. and the questions for the agency don't end there. how could jessica davis and
stacy wells have ended up with children who may never have actually been offender. that's what we wanted to know and it led us here to lake dallas, texas. behind these gates lives the head of the eac's african adoption program. but getting her to answer our questions was a challenge. but >> i'm trying to find deborah paris. >> after trying to reach her by phone numerous times, we followed her for more than an hour by car hoping to get answers for these families. >> deborah. >> what? >> i'm randi kaye with cnn. we spoke to women who adopted children from uganda. i know you ran the program. >> no, i did not. there was four people >> you were involved in the program for -- >> both jessica and stacy say deborah paris was their main point of contact. the one who called them and told them what turned out to be false stories about the girls' family history. both describe paris as
aggressive on the phone, demanding an answer right away as to whether or not they would take the child. deborah paris denied having anything to do with the adoptions of children seemingly orphaned for profit. >> the mothers say they never meant for their children to be adopted. were they lied to? >> i did not organize these adoptions. >> despite her pushback about her role, deborah paris refers to herself in this e-mail to a reporter as the director of africa program for eac. >> you were the head of the you began dan adoption program. >> margaret coal was. >> margaret coal is the owner of eac. this is her making a pitch for orphans in panama. >> they need food and medicine. >> cole started the company back in 1991. since then, the agency has handled intercountry adoptions in more than a dozen countries,
including uganda, bug gar i can't, honduras, and haiti. it's based in strongville, ohio, where is where we hoped to find margaret cole. six different addresses and no luck. callings to various phone numbers also a dead end. this home of hers was rat-rate the fbi in february. investigators left with obligations of evidence. in 2016, the state department determined that eac has exhibited a pattern of serious willful or grossly negligent failure to comply with standards for international investigation. it debarred the agency ordering it to cease all adoption services for three years. among the key findings, they failed to engage in practices to prevent the trafficking of children. it said the failure to provide
adequate supervision contributed to the violation described above. also that eac failed safety procedures. the state department determined eac offered consideration to birth parents to induce them to release their children for adoption. >> they are getting the orphans because there's a dollar sign. >> the u.s. state department also found that eac failed to take the proper steps to make sure birth parents consented to the termination of parental rights. >> were these mothers lied to? >> no absolutely not. >> women say they ended up buying a child instead of adopting a child. >> the lawyer who processed the adoptions for eac at god's mercy orphanage is this woman. we spoke with her by phone and she denied any wrong coining by
god's mercy. >> she also insisted children are not being trafficked through orphanages. she also said the biological mothers did know their daughters were being adopted and taken to america. all of that despite the ugandaen government saying it shut down the orphanage because it was illegally processing guardianship orders and trafficking children. and the courts finding that ma da's mother has been lied to. >> what's unclear is how widespread the alleged trafficking scheme may be. cnn's investigation found it doesn't we understand vaio la and ma da.
>> both families are aware of the truth. since returning home, meanwhile both jessica davis and stacy we always have been interviewed by the fbi, which declined to talk about the investigation with cnn. >> birth mothers, the most vulnerable birth mothers on the planet are being taken advantage of in this way so that people can profit from adoption. >> anderson, jessica and adam davis spent $60,000 adopting mada only to bring her back to
uganda. stacy we always told me she and her husband spent their life th- or the european adoption consultants. the lawyer in uganda who handled these adoptions also has not been charged. meanwhile, it is possible, anderson, that the adoption agency was simply negligent here, unaware based on lack of background checks that the children it was getting from uganda were being traskd. in other words, it could be that eac is also a victim of this apparent -- >> margaret cole would respond to our request for comment. in the meantime, the investigation is ongoing. anderson. >> it's an incredible storyment thanks vep. we'll continue to follow it. up next, a preview of anthony bourdain's next stop. that schwa. oh, not so fast, carl.
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about it over some food here in chofrp chofrp. >> i've never been. always wanted to go. talk about a chaotic city. >> incredible. imagine a city of 20 million people, most of whom provide their own electricity, their own water. often build their own homes. completely unregulated. often with two or three businesses that they've started themselves. >> what's the food like? >> spicy, delicious. they love food. they love to cook. and there's a lot of exciting sweet food and, you know, small businesses. most of them completely unregulated and unlicensed, but the government has got to figure out a way to tax them. so the government will basically observe a business and decide an arbitrary number based on what appears to be going on. i mean, whole cities are growing up spilling out into the lagoon built out over the water with schools, brot else, hotels, barber shops, businesses.
>> how come i'm the only one sweating eating this? >> i don't know, man. it's healthy sweat. the people are -- i've never seen a population, a whole population work so hard, whether you're already doing well or whether you're below the povertyty line, everybody is a true believer that if i just work really, really hard and figure out an angle or multiple angles, success will be mine. >> right. >> and there are a loft very successful people. you know, it's an oil rich economy. there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of hustle, a lot of inequity. a lot of great food and a lot of really tremendous music. got an incredible music history, which we look into. >> cool. >> and a psychedelic rock scene from the 70s. >> there's a psychedelic rock city in nigeria. >> in the wake of the african conflict, there was an explosion of sooik rock in nigeria.
>> wow. >> and it is some of the tripiest, wildest, most awesome music and we look deeply into that subject. >> how deeply? >> deeply, man. >> don't miss anthony bourdain parts unknown in layingos this sunday here on 9:00 p.m. that's it for us. have a great weekend. time to hand it over to don lemon. cnn tonight starts right now. breaking news on the russia investigation. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. former chief of staff reince priebus answering questions from investigators today. we're going to have more on that in a moment. plus does president trump have an obama obsession. remember when he said this about his predecessor? >> we get along. i don't know if he'll admit this, but he likes me. >> well, that bro manslaughter is over. if it was ever the real thing in the first place. the president making it his mission to undo every