tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 17, 2017 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
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level decisions. cnn chief national security correspondent jim sciutto joins us with more. >> anderson, this shows that the special counsel's investigation is clearly moving beyond russian meddling in the election. sean spicer was not involved during the trump campaign. came on board after his election. so here is someone that we know that special counsel was looking to ask questions, for instance, on the firing of the fbi director james comey on meetings held in the oval office as trump as president and officials. we know that sean spicer took copious notes. that is a dream for lawyer, for special counsel. these are notes they're going to want to have access to. those notes are not protected. that will certainly be part of the investigation. now, on the flip side, we should mention spicer not the closest to the president's advisers, not present in every meeting. would he have been there when key decisions always made? not necessarily. but still, someone who was involved in the administration after the election. it shows that the special
counsel is looking into questions, for instance, on questions of obstruction of justice and other decisions. the investigation clearly moving beyond meddling and interference in the election. >> and the senate intelligence investigation is also moving on. they've issued a subpoena to carter page. >> that's right. so carter page is a different kind of character here, right? he goes back to the campaign, not to the administration. the president identified him early in the campaign as a foreign policy adviser, but it was never clear how close he was has you noted. it's not even clear that cater page met with the president personally. he has been a very public face for some months of this investigation. he's binary willing to speak in open about it. we also know he did go to travel to russia. so he was definitely present there. not clear that he's a central focus of the investigation but we also know the senate
intel committee often asks witnesses to come forward voluntarily. if they refuse, they will use their subpoena power to require them to come forward. that's what is happening here. >> jim sciutto, appreciate that i want to bring in our panel. paul begala and paul callan. paul, just from a legal standpoint, the fact that you now have priebus who has been called in last week and sean spicer, what does that tell you about kind of the pace of this? >> i think it's moving along very quickly. these prosecutors are like birds of prey and they're circling the white house. much like birds of prey, they cut off sort of the wounded animals, the onces who were fired, reince priebus and spicer who left because they've got a lot of information, and that information might be helpful as they move closer to the president. now, this does not mean that they've made a case by any means, but it does mean they are pushing to end this investigation and reach a final conclusion. >> in meetings like this, this meeting went on according to politico nearly all day long with spicer. they have documents.
normally in a meeting like this it's documents like a deposition. it's documents they want to present to the person. >> yes. he's known as a note taker. it's ironic because he's thought of as a comic figure. because he was beaten by the press so much at press conferences. but he took a lot of note, and then he would go back and talk to the president about it. even if this is related to the russia investigation, there are a lot of questions pertaining to that investigation, he would have gone back to the president and asked for specifics. he may have written things down that prosecutors don't know about and will prove useful to them. >> kirsten, the fact that he kept notes is sort of fascinating. >> the question is how much information does he have. because he wasn't particularly close to the president, despite his high profile role. he is somebody who came to the white house that the president wasn't even particularly excited about. he came with reince priebus because he worked with him at the rnc. i think it remains how much actual information he does have. but it does show they're looking at obstruction of justice here.
this isn't so much about the collusion aspect. they're now clearly looking at obstruction. >> i think the notes part is interesting and the comey part is interesting. i'm kind of surprised that he was taking copious notes. but then the question becomes that's gold for them, but what are the missing pieces. because he may not have been in all the meetings. in fact, it's likely he wasn't in the meeting because trump didn't want him there. >> first of all, i only was at trump tower during the campaign once and i saw sean spicer there in the conference room working. spicer was actively on the campaign heavily in the messaging. i don't know if you can read into him meeting with him as proof positive that it's past the campaign. once we knew that nomination happened at the convention -- >> but he and reince priebus was were obviously working for the rnc until he was the candidate. >> right. but my point is -- we don't know what this is about. we're speculating. but i would say paul put his finger on it. i would change the metaphor. i've said before i think mueller is a zombie lawyer.
he's going to keep searching until he finds someone to devour. and he is going to search, and notes and all these things. if it's not about russian collusion, which is what jim says, then what's it about? and you can go forever and find something wrong, and i think this is a kind of witch-hunt in search of a witch and i think it's a disservice to the country. >> thank you, i was trying to. >> you've been in the white house where there was an ongoing investigation that went from one point a to point b. >> yeah, and it's not fun. the problem with spicer being a note taker is not spicer's problem. he's got time to review them. he has competent counsel. it's every single's problem. the hell about going through these things, about being interviewed, the asymmetrical information. they know more than you do, so whoever goes in next knows mr. mueller has spicer's notes and spicer's testimony. and you have no idea what's in there. i had friends in the clinton white house. someone else taking notes.
the terrorist says we should fire comey, you have no idea whether that's accurate. it's awful. the other problem spicer has that every one of these witnesses will have is the pain of perjury. if they lie to mueller, they're going to go prison. he will catch them because he has so much more information than they do. and spicer distinguished himself as press secretary for his extravagant and aggressive lying. it disgraced him professionally. this is now legal. it's over now, he's already testified. but he better not have lied. or i promise mueller will catch him. >> he met them. >> 18 u.s. code section 1001 says if you mislead or lie to them in any context -- >> he may have made statements, whatever, testifying -- >> he lied to the fbi, it's a crime. whether it's a federal investigator. >> or lie to the house or senate committee. it's a crime. you don't have to be sworn. people need to know this. i think it's a pernicious lie. i wish congress would change it. but if you're talking to the fbi
and you say anything -- >> they can lie to you, but you can't lie to them. >> that's a good point. >> i don't think, paul, you agree that it's a witch-hunt? >> i don't think it's a witch-hunt. but 1001 is way too broad. >> this is exactly why -- this is donald trump's worst nightmare. it always has been, which is why he was so upset with jeff sessions for stepping down leading to the comey firing and mueller and all this, because of how wide the investigation can go. and to say that it's outside now collusion and now we're looking at obstruction of justice, this isn't news. we knew the obstruction of justice aspect of this would creep in just based on donald trump's behavior and the way he handled poorly the comey firing. once he did that and changed the story about why he did it and this as oand that, any investigator is going to look into why. because the behavior is not one moofn w man who is completely innocent. >> except that we're supposed to be governed by an election and the rule of law. when you say we'll keep
expanding until we can find some way to tie up the president, if it's about the russian collusion, it ought to be about that. after that, leave this white house. if you don't like him in five years you can vote him out. >> if the rule of law was subverted, firing james comey, firing mr. comey because of this russia business which is what donald trump told nbc news. that's a good case anyway for obstruction of justice. >> donald trump has himself to thank for this investigation being wider than it was. >> especially when others in the white house and the inner circle have to talk to mueller's team. because you had all of them coming out. i remember the day comey was fired. they all came out on television and said oh, it's because of -- and the way he handled that and was mean to hillary clinton. and then the president gives -- so there must be e-mail traffic and plenty of memos back and forth and meetings that took place where this was being discussed. >> yeah. >> go ahead. >> from the beginning this was problematic for the trump white house even if there was no there
there because they do not have the reputation for taking the untruth off the table or lying off the table. the president is not precise in his language. when you're talking to investigators and you don't want to get caught in something or you don't want to misstate something, you have to be precise. i think that's going to be a real problem for them regardless what we find is the there there. >> i think there's always a question of who knew what because i think some people were just told to say things. it doesn't mean they necessarily knew what they were saying wasn't true. and then there's some people who probably did know it wasn't true and were going out there and saying that. >> we also know nothing about what happened from the time the white house was informed about michael flynn by law enforcement to when he was actually let go because "the washington post" had the story. there was -- i can't remember how many weeks it was, but there was a length of time. and we know very little about the inner discussions that were going on during that time. >> right. >> we will know because flynn's
temporary replacement, mr. kellogg apparently has already spoken to prosecutors. don mcgann, the white house counsel, sally yates, she came to the white house counsel and believed that flynn was compromised. she said it under oath to congress, that they needed to act on this. they need to know about this. and then i think it was a good two or three weeks before they did act on it and you're right, that interim, who was said then is going to be going to matter a lot. >> we've got to take a quick break. coming up next, the president has brought chief of staff john kelly who lost his son in afghanistan into it. as he crossed a new threshold? we'll keep him honest on that. later, how the president might react to a new and much lower assessment of his net worth. details on that printed in "forbes" magazine when we continue. as king midas, i expect a lifetime guarantee. and so should you. on struts, brakes, shocks. does he turn everything to gold? not everything. now get $100 back on a 2-axle brake service with your midas credit card. book an appointment online.
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♪ ♪ kyle, we talked about this. there's no monsters. but you said they'd be watching us all the time. no, no. no, honey, we meant that progressive would be protecting us 24/7. we just bundled home and auto and saved money. that's nothing to be afraid of. -but -- -good night, kyle. [ switch clicks, door closes ] ♪ i told you i was just checking the wiring in here, kyle. he's never like this. i think something's going on at school. -[ sighs ] -he's not engaging. the white house said president trump has called the families of all four u.s. troops who were killed in niger. this comes nearly two weeks after the fact.
it follows the uproar over his remarks yesterday about why it had taken so long. he said falsely that president obama had not called gold star families during his presidency. >> i mean, you could ask general kelly did he get a call from obama. you could ask other people. i don't know what obama's policy was. >> keeping him honest in the narrowest possible sense. that is true. president obama did not call the kellys. he did, however, inveto them to breakfast at the white house for gold star families. not clear if they actually attended. the white house declined to make general kelly available for comment. general kelly has only mentioned his son rarely and never to settle a beef with the press. joining us is josh greene, author of "the devil's bargain." general kelly went out of his way to publicly not talk about his son, even giving a speech in front of a semper fi organization in st. louis when
he asked the marine introducing him not to mention his son, even though his son had been killed four days earlier. >> yeah, and there is a striking piece in "the washington post" that ticks through his history of really making an effort not to personalize it by bringing his son's death into the personal debate which i think is why it's so jarring to see trump go on a conservative talk radio show and foist that up as a rationale perhaps for why he decided to criticize president obama when he was confronted yesterday at the press conference why he hadn't said more about these dead green better race. >> do you think it's appropriate? >> actually, anderson, that speech he mentioned was in through us where i'm in front. few of the marines i know were there. right afterwards, and my brother is a marine. right afterwards they talked about how he didn't mention his son in the speech. he didn't allow it to be introduced. you said it, anderson. it was factually true what the president said. i can't imagine the weight of a president to call all these families. it must be even for -- >> actually, no. what he said in the rose garden
was not factually correct. what he said on the radio show about president obama not calling president kelly was. >> that's what i mean. the story is now about how he dragged in -- everyone is saying he dragged in obama. the fact is obama -- i don't blame him. whatever the time line would be for decisions about calling families of people whose children are killed or spouses, ought to be sort of something we don't understand. we haven't had that respondent. but it was true. trump is saying i'm trying to figure it out. >> why does he just make stuff up? he made something up. and then when he was called on it he back tracked. and his backtrack was well, i don't know, it's what i was told. maybe they didn't did. maybe they didn't. that's what i heard. >> at the heart of it was obama didn't call every one of them at the same schedule anyone else did. and he was going to get to it too. i don't know. i think that seems pretty reasonable. i don't really know what the problem is. >> he's lying about the problem. >> about what? >> he made something up. >> what was the lie?
>> he didn't like the question being asked of him. he interpreted it as a hostile question so he pivoted on blaming predecessors. who he ask saying did not call or did not do exactly as he did. >> but what is the lie? >> he is saying something which is factually incorrect. >> i don't understand what it is? >> he said past presidents never called and when a reporter fact checked him on the spot. >> he proved it. >> no. >> never called? >> never called? that's absolutely not true. let's stop this. this is an asinine argument right now. it's asinine. you're arguing about whether the president of the united states who clearly lied, we all heard it, backtracked and in a way that was completely inappropriate, still blaming another president instead of taking the high road and being a statesman and simply just saying that i will be contacting the families. we've already sent out letters and how difficult this is and we send our condolences. that's what a statesman should have done.
instead he has this desire to constantly blame everybody else. >> and then he has a profile on courage to when he is confronted with a lie, he is like maybe i'm wrong, maybe i'm right. it's what i heard. >> the question is whether we honor the people that died. >> you can't ever say the president was wrong, can you? >> i think the president was trying to answer hard question. >> you can't say what he said was true. >> i think what he said was trying to answer the question. it's a hard question. >> but was it true? >> it is true that obama didn't call kelly's family. >> that's not what he said. he said -- >> it's true they didn't all call on a schedule. so that's a hard question. >> i think this is going to shock you. you're right in one little fragment that slipped out. the point here is to honor the troops. not to attack barack obama or donald trump. he is their commander in chief. and i just spent a little bit of time today looking at what's in
the public record, mostly stars and stripes in local news from where these men lived. sergeant la david johnson, one of the men who was killed from miami gardens, florida. he's got a wife who is expecting a baby and a 2-year-old and a 6-year-old. he was so devoted to his wife, he tattooed her name on his chest. this is an american hero. there is only 1% who defend us, including your brother. god bless him. we need to hear their stories. not whether barack obama was better than him. that's what's so sinful about what this president did. he had the obligation to tell country about these heroes who have given their life for our country. and like he always does, he debased his office. >> i think he called them today. whatever the time line you guys decided they should have on calling someone who died, he called them today. i think he showed honor. we're making a mountain out of a mole hill. of a guy that answered the question. >> tell that to the families. tell that to the families who lost them. >> tell that to obama who never called kelly.
>> general kelly's son, no, you guys -- >> you're making death about the president. >> the talking point the way the president did disgracefully this morning. you guys take a page out of dana perino's book. take an excerpt out of her bush where president bush went to walter reed, where she describes where he shed tears over wounded soldier there's during a purple heart ceremony. that's how you handle this. there were no cameras or anything like that. >> thinking you do is politicizing it. >> you guys did this. you need to learn. the president needs to learn class in this. >> one, i'm fairly certain that general kelly wants to talk to president trump about this. two, thing is a question as to why suddenly the specific timeline of these things is a story. i'm note sure it varies from president to president. and that's okay there are different combats there are different standards. there are different family situations that you have to deal with.
and the president felt attacked. and what he did when he felt attacked is counterpunch on this most solemn of subjects. and there's not an excuse for it. because i work with these gold star families. and they don't want to be brought into it. and you can talk about these heroes without turning it into this. you can just say look, there is different timelines for different areas. this is how we're dealing with the sacrifice that these families make very generously. we're doing it very sensitively. end of story. >> i agree with all that except for the fact -- he thinks he was under attack but he was just being asked a question and he could have answered in an entirely different way. he didn't need to start talking about barack obama. he could have just said i'm going to call them. these are heroes. they sacrificed for our country. the point is rather than doing that, he immediately starts debasing himself and his predecessors. >> and it's easy not to. that's the thing. >> that's what he did at the cia as well his first day as
president. he stood in front of 171 stars of men and women who have given their lives to our country, instead of honoring them, he talked about himself and stupid crowds at the inaugural. >> speaking about counterpunching, president trump onty t attack and john mccain. we'll talk what he said about mccain, the threat security levels and the senator's reaction and just what it says about the president. he is doing that to an 1-year-old cancer patient. so this one says ... ... dealership has great customer service ... (muffled voice) ... and has great deals! ... and has ... ... complimentary donuts.
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the president did not just wrap himself in the mental of someone else's loss and grieving today, he also attacked a 81-year-old p.o.w. whose battling brain cancer. last night john mccain without mentioning a name issued a sharp critique of the movement. this morning the president said this. >> people have to be careful because at some point i fight back. i'm being very nice. i'm being very, very nice. but at some point i fight back and it won't be pretty. >> senator mccain says he's faced far greater challenges than that. >> really, the president fights back sometimes. that's really news worthy. i mean, does he really believe that? all he does is basically -- it's not even fighting back. it's just attacking people. i do think that this is not something that's going to be intimidating. to john mccain in any way. i don't think at any point in his life would bit intimidating. but i think in particular, he is at a point where i don't think he is going to have any problem
standing up to the president. >> i mean, mccain was pretty sharp in a critique of a lot of what donald trump stands for. and, you know, political arguments. does this go beyond a political argument, mary catherine? >> you're right that mccain doesn't care and, frankly, once someone calls you an unsatisfactory p.o.w., you can say whatever you want after that. but look, i do think there's a part of his speech where he talked about it being unpatriotic to ascribe to this half-baked nationalism, as he called it. i'm probably closer to mccain than to trump. but there's a whole part of this country including democrats who crossed over to vote for trump who are on board with that because of the failures of the interventionism of the past which mccain is in support of. i think there is a political dynamic there he should be aware of. he's in arizona and running again anyway. but this is a dynamic that he is sort of ignoring. and i think using the word
unpatriotic to describe that word spreads it into trump. >> war hero and sorry he is sick. but mccain is why the republican party was fading until trump. his brand of the interventionist grow the amnesty for illegals, trade deals, everything. he lost the election because he want great candidate on the issues. he is a good man. all that stuff. i'm saying. >> so he just grandstands and pounds away on the president and the movement. and the president is sick of it. so are people like me. mccain goes out on the floor, dramatically. this guy a seasoned pro. when he ran for reelection in arizona, he said over and over, i'll vote to repeal obamacare. he ran to the right. you guys covered it. he suddenly is a conservative. he runs reelection, comes out and is grandstanding for effect. it may be personal. that's fair in politics. don't expect when it's personal against the president you get a personal for you. >> that's not personal. it's about policy. >> he's a liar when you --
>> no, senator mccain voted against a bill. senators do that every day. i think senator mccain didn't like the policy. his state would have been hurt built. the way, he was reelected by 14 points on the same day president trump -- >> look what he ran on. >> john mccain is not afraid of donald trump. >> nobody said he was. >> personally or politically. he is much stronger in arizona than president trump is. that's demonstrably true. they both ran on the same day and mccain ran by a landslide in arizona. what the president has done from the beginning is attack senator mccain personally. it's fine to have this argument about interventionism versus global, whatever. but he said senator mccain wasn't a hero because he got captured. that gets things off on the wrong foot i think. >> we're talking about the speech last night and the response to it. >> he attacked a gold star family, the khan family of virginia. he attacked the pope, he attacks everyone. >> mccain represents the pope now? >> no, there is a constellation of people attacked by donald trump. >> it's a pattern. >> there is a pattern of him attacking people that no decent person would attack.
>> mccain and the republican party is dead. the party is dead. that's what mccain is upset about. that's the fax. >> i don't think that's true. if you look at the history of trump attacking mccain, it has been after mccain has said something negative about him usually in a policy sense. last night's speech from john mccain was a policy speech. trump is attacking him because trump views everything through the lens of personal loyalty where as john mccain is loyal to the american ideal. that was the thrust of his speech and why he is criticizing what he called the half-baked spurious nationalism that trump and other people support. >> you do nonfiction. you're just writing some sort of story about this. john mccain is a street fighting politician. he would fight as hard as anybody ever has to try to win. >> sure. >> his policies have been rejected soundly by the republican party. he stands up on the floor of the senate and lectures half of america that said we don't want what you want, mccain. and suddenly we're all supposed to sit back and say well isn't this great. >> just because different policy
wins doesn't mean everybody has to bow down before him. >> nobody does. trump does, obviously. that's why he's offended. >> he'll counterpunch on the policies. >> but he doesn't. see, you just said he would counterpunch on the policies, and he doesn't. he counterpunches with adhonin manchester united m attacks. trump started that. mccain has continued. you can argue, we can argue all day about where mccain is on the republican spectrum and he has done some things that republicans don't like. and that's fine from a policy perspective. but john mccain is a hero, right? and john mccain served his country in a way that donald trump could never. the level of self-sacrifice that john mccain gave to this country is something that make donald trump look very small when he attacks john mccain personally. because he'll never measure up. and i think he realizes that, so he tries to fight back against a
man who is an american hero, who is self-sacrificed in ways that donald trump could never. >> i can just repeat it again. mccain stands up on the floor of the senate, bad-mouths half of the country and the party in a terrible way. and all trump is saying is people can attack me over and over. same thing with flake. flake can wray book and everybody can say wow, what an interesting book. he says terrible things about the president. >> he doesn't say terrible things about him. >> the president has a right to fight back. that's all he is saying. we're glad we have a president that doesn't sit there and take it from these people that lecture us. sick of it. >> what about common decency? >> i agree john mccain wasn't decent when he went decent. >> that's your definition of not being decent. donald trump not calling him a hero. that's okay for you? >> we're going back to that. look, we all agree he is a hero. >> you don't take responsibility for donald trump's own behavior. >> was it appropriate for the president to say that he is not a war hero? >> i would prefer that he didn't say that. but i also think he was in campaign and he was making a point. and i think the president proved
something about mccain as a politician by beating the people that subscribe to his position, rubio and others. >> what was the point he was making about him not being a war hero? >> i think he was just trying to signal that he was separating from mccain. it's politics, anderson. separating from mccain's brand and all that. >> so it's politics we're not separating on policy. it's politics by attacking him for being a prisoner of war for six years and tortured? >> it's politics by competing on where was it, who was that interview? >> it was in front of a faith forum. >> we can all sit here and disagree very vehemently and do not make those kind of statements against each other. no matter how much you and i disagree, and we disagree on a lot of things, we don't say those kinds of things each other. so why it is okay for the president of the united states? why can't he have a disagreement with somebody without having to hit below the belt? >> his statement today is i'm going to counterpunch. mccain gives a speech. he didn't counterpunch yet.
mccain gives a speech. and he says be careful when i counter punch. >> be careful of what? he is going to call him a name? give him a nickname? it's ridiculous. >> the senator's critique of the president's foreign policy is a policy critique. he may be right. he may be wrong. the president is not about ideas. that's mr. trump's problem here. he was for single pair health care. he was for the war in iraq. no he is against it. politics is not about policy or ideas for him. it is for you and i think you project that on to him. but it's not how he is. it's all about his own narcissism. so these this is why when the president's policies are attacked by senator mccain, he responds with personal attacks. >> he did use the word unpatriotic to describe the policy. and that's a pretty heavy word. that's not just a policy work. i hate the way donald trump counterpunches. i've been on record for this for a long time.
but i don't think we should ignore that that was a pretty harsh criticism and branched out into the actual voter. >> pretty harsh. could have called him deplorable. mccain could have said hey, it's just a basket of deplorables. >> even though i wish a lot more people in the republican party hated the way that donald trump counterpunches, the fact is that many of them are madder, and i kind of see this, they're madder at mccain about telling them that he was going to get rid of obamacare and then being nah. they have a real beef with him for a real reason. >> trump may have a problem in going after people like mccain and bob corker because neither of these guys have anything to lose, and trump actually does. he has an agenda he needs to pass. he needs every republican senator to get behind it. we've seen what happens when one or two doesn't. probably not a good idea to go after somebody like mccain. >> corker lost his seat because he didn't go with trump. >> what you talking about? >> he is not rung. he chose not to run. >> because he knew what was coming. >>. [ overlapping dialog ] >> that's fake news. >> that's an alternative fact.
when we come back, president trump's far down the forbes richest american list after they say his net worth plummeted this year. few things upset him more in the past than people questioning his wealth. we'll get to that next. my bladder leakage was making me feel like i couldn't spend time with my grandson. now depend fit-flex
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answer. this year he dropped a whopping 92 spots on the forbes list of richest americans. his net worth dropped $600 million in one year. he has yet to comment but few things have upset him over the years more than having his net worth questioned. joining me now is dan alexander, associate editor for forbes. dan, the drop, what's behind it? >> the biggest thing is people think donald trump has this global real estate business that's all over the world. and the reality is the majority of his net worth still lies in new york city real estate. right now new york city real estate, particularly retail is struggling, and that's pushing the president's net worth down a significant amount. in a year when almost everybody else on the list is way up. >> i was also reading mar-a-lago, he jacked up prices, and that's doing well. but the golf courses in states where he didn't win are doing poorly. but in states where he did win are doing well. is that right? >> that's exactly right. what's tricky with donald trump's net worth is most of his assets are now in places where the majority of people don't
like him. with his golf courses, you can see a lot of different areas. up in the northeast, those golf courses aren't doing particularly well. but if you look in different places like down in florida, those golf courses are doing extremely well. same for example his tower out in las vegas. that's doing very well. and that's a part of the country that generally has a more positive view of him. >> is estimating the president's net worth a difficult thing to do? given how hard and how long he has fought to keep the specifics under wraps? >> you know, it's something we've been at for a long time, so we've got a long history with it. he likes to make it seem like it's really, really complicated to figure out all the details of it. the truth is we do this for over 2,000 people around the world, and he's just one of them. yes, he has assets and yes, they're complicated assets, but you take the time and look through them, you can pin it down. to a pretty good number. >> i've heard folks from forbes say of all the people who have ever been on the forbes 400
list, nobody care morse than donald trump. that true? >> that's absolutely true. we started this list in 1982. donald trump was on the very first list. at that time he was with his father and he's been on it for most of the years since. people have come and gone. overall there have been about 1,600 people on the list. of those 1,600, no one has cared more about where he ranks and what he's currently worth than the president of the united states. >> i think you'll be getting a phone call perhaps or a tweet. that's a given. dan, thanks very much. i want to bring in our panel. joining us is michael dantonio. michael, is he sitting in the white house reading this somewhere or seeing this on tv and upset? >> he is absolutely. he's not the only billionaire who does this. i happened to be in the home of one of trump's neighbors in palm beach when the list came out and he was eager to see where he stood. there are many of the members of
mar-a-lago who have now jumped ahead of the president. and that's going to irritate him immensely. the trouble here is there is actually a referee. where donald trump has in the past been able to gain the system, he comes out on top. you were discussing john mccain recently. mccain actually won elections. he's won most of the things he's gone after because they've been campaigns where they measured the votes. donald trump in the case of his wealth has insisted it's been two, three, four, five times what other people say it is. what you get down to the numbers, it's close to what "forbes" says. >> we've got the take a break. we'll have more of this from the panel when we come back.
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as donald trump? i never heard somebody that wealthy talk about their being so wealthy. >> it's a little how he talks about how smart he is and his high iq. so i think he does care a lot about these external markers. it seems to be important to him. >> isn't it just like a tell of deep insecurity? >> of course. it stems back to his father being a really tough guy, him always having to prove himself. and obviously he's continuing to do that. it screams insecurity, the three wives, and he passes one out that is prettier than the next one. he's always been like that. so it's not surprising. the thing about it that's interesting is he just lies about this, as well. he would overinflate the values of his properties, and he did it on his financial disclosure forms that he filed for
president. he claimed that the trump westchester golf course was worth $50 million and it's worth $1.4 million. when it came down to his jupiter florida golf course, again, he claimed it was like $50 million, and it was only valued at $9 million. he's notorious for doing this. that's when he says $10 billion, forbes says it's closer to $3 million, that's why, he overinflates. >> i think he keeps score, but here's the thing, anderson. i just came back from australia. anybody here believe that donald trump hasn't secured his brand as one of the greatest brands in the history of all the world? roosevelt will be a brand -- that doesn't mean everybody likes it, but everywhere in the world the brand is way up.
[ overlapping speakers ] >> long-term. >> you want a list of his failed properties internationally? >> what we talked about on the show is other people is up because the market is booming, and his is not because of real estate. but his brand, whether it was "apprentice" it's as solid as ever. it's the gold plated brand. >> he lost $600 million as president. >> i just think he's so weird he's obsessed with it. >> i always believed with mitt romney, that he was richer than we thought he was, but he was sheepish about it. president trump is the other way. by the way, $3 billion is a ton of money. [ overlapping speakers ] >> instead of recognizing that, you're project whatever your
issues are that he's bummed out. he's doing great. [ overlapping speakers ] >> when he sued tim o'brien in his deposition in 2007 and he was asked about his net worth and trump said in the deposition, this is a legal record, he said it fluctuates with my mood. if i feel i'm worth more, that's what i'm worth. >> that's pretty standard. if you listen to what he said -- >> are you kidding me? there you have it, america, right there. >> it's not standard in business. >> what's standard when you're a guy that is a brand like he is, a leader like he is. he has changed his net worth by being somebody that everybody recognizes. >> baron hilton, in the same business, didn't do it.
milton hershey didn't do it. they lived in the age of advertising and their names before bigger than trump at the time. hershey and lipton, they pioneered all this stuff. at one point, lipton was the most photographed man in the world. they never had to do this. donald trump is massively concerned about how we perceive him. it's not whether he has the money, but do we agree with him. >> i don't think any president has been as needy -- >> how do you know? >> every time you give him a compliment, you can see it wash over him like a balm. then you can ask him some tough questions, as long as you say every fifth question your crowd size in new hampshire was great. >> you're describing him. he's also very describing. what is it about clinton that makes us know that he was needy or obama?
you're talking about the -- hillary. the top level politicians are people that are needy for attention. that's how they get there and succeed. >> donald trump self-medicates by self-congratulations. this is how he does it. it's obnoxious and petty and unnecessary and we all see through it. >> the branding is very important to him. there sin security at work here. the branding is more important to him than the actual money. here's an area where there's an easy win for the president, which is to say riddle me with, anybody else on that list that is president of the united states of america? >> we'll be right back. more ahead. hey! you know, progressive is america's number-one motorcycle insurer. yeah, she does purr! best bike i ever owned! no, you're never alone, because our claims reps are available 24/7. we even cover accessories and custom parts. we diget an early start! took the kids to soccer practice.
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we want to end this hour honoring those four soldiers who lost their lives in niger, four names who are for a moment part of a political controversy. but will live forever in a mom's heart or a daughter's childhood memories of her dad. staff sergeant dustin wright of georgia came from a military family. a family serving the military dating back to 1812. wright's aunt told local news dustin was lovable, would give his last dime to help anyone in need.
he was 29 years old. staff sergeant bryan black was a green beret, special forces medic. he was a dad, a husband, son, a soldier since 2009. he was 35 years old. staff sergeant jeremiah johnson was 39 years old, a biological and nuclear specialist, springboro, ohio. the mayor said if you liked sergeant johnson, you liked him immediately. he was all about country, all about family, all about moral fiber. h and sergeant ladavid johnson was from florida, a faithful churchgoer, a husband who had his wife's name tattooed on his chest. he was the father of two children, ages 2 and 6.
he had a third child on the way. he was just 25 years old. tonight, we remember these decorated soldiers, their service, their legacy, and all who loved them. thanks for watching "360." time to hand thinks over to don lemon and "cnn tonight." this is cnn breaking news. >> breaking news tonight. the russian investigation moving deeper into trump's inner circle. this is cnn tonight. here's what we are learning tonight. sean spicer has been questioned by the special counsel investigators. just the latest in a parade of team trump members. and sources telling cnn former foreign policy adviser carter page has been subpoenaed by the senate intenlligence committee. all