tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 20, 2017 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
huckster can never admit he was swindled. >> he believes his own lies. >> remember the bogus madrigal seine on the walls of trump's golf clubs. someone tweeted about the painting, was it hanging next to his calls madrigal seine cover? it is now, someone's been framed. >> "ac 360's" next. good evening, john ber patten here for anderson. the white house, president, chief of staff john kelly all have been lashing out at a congresswoman who was there when the president called a grieving widow of la davis johnson. the president spoke about it all again tonight with fox news. >> he was so offended, because he was in the room when i made the call and so were other
people. and the call was a very nice -- he was so offended that a woman would be -- that somebody would be listening to that call. he actually couldn't believe it. actually, he said to me sir, this is not acceptable, this is really not. and i he -- he knew it, i was so nice. look, i've called many people. and i'd think that every one of them appreciated it. i was surprised to see this to be honest with you. >> much more on that later. we begin with breaking news in the russian investigation, we learn more about who has been interviewed with the intelligence committee. manu raju has that now. >> we have learned the senate intelligent committee has interviewed several of the russians who did take part in a june 2016, meeting with donald trump jr., paul manafort, jared kushner, that meeting has been
under enormous scrutiny in washington after it was revealed donald trump took that meeting after he could get dirt on the clinton campaign. now, we're now learning for the first time that several of the russians in that meeting did in fact meet and discuss this interaction with the senate intelligence committee chairman confirming that they did meet with several, they did not disclose who precisely they met with. we do know there were four returns in that meeting, including a russian lawyer, and lobbyist, as well as a translate for and another individual who did work for russian ole guard. this come as investigators are still try to determine the extent to which donald trump jr. and others tried to work with
these russians as any effort to interfere with the election. donald trump jr. says there was nothing to this meeting. it was simply a meeting to resolve over russian discovery. >> so the committee is going through a check of who was at that meeting. any idea when donald trump jr. himself will talk to the committee? >> that's an open question. richard butter has said he wants to sequence this in a way he could talk to everybody else that was in the room before talking to donald trump jr. the fact that i have interviewed several of these russians suggest they're getting closer to bringing in donald trump jr. for an interview. several other members on capitol hill want to talk to trump jr. even the committee who had a
staff with trump junior but there was -- but taz not been decided officially yet, no date set. chairman of the judiciary committee, republican truck grassley has told me a public hearing is probably unvoidable at this point. >> any sense, manu, because you listen to republicans on the senate and intelligence committee who keeps on saying we haven't found any evident collusion occurred. any chance they'll make some statement on that? >> it's unclear when that will happen, john. there are republicans on the committee who are saying we need to wrap this up soon because there is no smoking gun yet. one of the senior republicans on the intelligence committee tell me they've reached a dead end. earlier this week i had a chance to ask senator mark warner whose the vice chairman of the committee and he said there are a lot more people to interview. >> one republican member said
this week that -- in investigating the issue of collusion. have you reached that point? >> we want to keep this the number of individuals that the mens have yet too see in terms of some of the principles that you and your colleagues have reported on. the members of the committee has not had a chance to talk to the vast majority of these individuals. >> john when i put that question to richard burr, i said look are you at the point of divisional return, he said he would not go there but it's goal is to get this investigation done by the end of this year. >> all right thank you for that report. i want to start with the panel. in some ways the white house spot in russia has seemed to have faded over the last four
weeks mostly because of the mueller investigation going on behind closed doors and the senate's been doing a lot of its work behind closed doors. where do you think this all stand right now? in significant to the reporting that some of intelligence committee are starting to talk to the russians. >> well, look i think the don junior meeting is crucial. you have this e-mail, which is about getting the dirt on hillary clinton and didn't junior expressing gratitude and hope that this works out and then, no, no, this is about russian sanctions. this is sort of the elephant in the room and people are wondering whether in fact it's evidence of more that was going on or whether it was just a meeting that went no where as
didn don junior says. i think special counsel mueller is doing his interviews with current former white house aids and intelligence committee are doing their interviews. and i think that this is -- pace and i think what everyone is waiting for is trying to figure out what the special counsel has and what he is really interested in. >> he's not going to tell us that until or if he ever wants to tell us that. jonathan turnly to you. these russians talking to the committee, what is the key inside they can provide what will the questions about you could be asking them? >> for the moment it seems more criminal in nature, colluding is not a crime in this context. this is an issue of great important to the public. now the white house and the russians are likely to rely on other e-mails, including ones
released recently, where in trying to set up the meeting. the russian lawyer at the center of this is saying, i want to talk about adoption. then, it became we have dirt on hillary clinton. that certainly undermines a criminal case, we don't know what mueller has. for the moment this is not -- if this is the elephant in the room as gloria said it seems to be getting smaller by the day. >> steve, you want to weigh in on that? >> yeah t key is what jonathan said right at the end there is that we still don't know what mueller has. they're not really doing a criminal investigation, they're doing a political investigation and a counter terror investigation. i think the real insight from manu's report, is that if the senate intelligence committee is talking to these russian witnesses, i think you can bet your bottom dollar that bob
mueller is as well and indeed probably has already. and at that point, we're not just talking about the political theory of it, we're talking about whether the russian witnesses are contradicting sworn statements other people have made to bob mueller and his team. wear talking about when there are false statements coming out of these meetings. the real point here is everything that's happening in the senate is a distorted window to what's happening behind the scenes with the special counsel and that's where the rubber's going to hit the road if and when we get there. >> steve hall, these russians talk to the committee have varying relationship with the intelligence and the russian apparatus. what do you think their motivation is, what would drive them to answer honestly the questions posed to them by the intelligence committee? >> it's a face nating situation. to answer the last part of your
question first, i don't think there's any reason what so far for them to tell anything close to the truth if they don't want to or that their russian handlers or the russian government don't want them to. these people were cut outs, in other words sent by the russian governments, people who had some denial of liability. more importantly, as a matter of law i'd be confused as to whether or not there's anything that they would say would be trusted. could they be issued an oath. are they subject to any type of u.s. jurisdiction. i'd be curious to know is whether or not there'd be any official russians in the room with them when they testify. if i'm an intelligence officer i'm not sure aye want my russian cut outs to be alone in a room with a lot of americans who were trying to get to the bottom of what's going on unless i had someone with me. just the fact that they testify
i'm not sure would lend any credence to what they'd say. >> gloria the monitoring of donald trump jr. seems unavoid bl to testify before a different senate right now. the son of the united states could be given sworn testimony on television to a senate committee. >> thad be pretty interesting, i'd tune into that, wouldn't you? the questions, i think, they're going to ask him is whether or not it revolve around whether or not he told his father about that. he has said that he didn't, obviously they'll look at e-mail and get other team from other people and the question is going to be not only what he told his father about this, but about that statement that came out of air force one that day wen they were coming back from the g-20 and all of these staffers were in with the president of the united states trying to come up with a statement about blah this
meeting was about that had to be revised a number of times because it turned out not to be true. they'll want to know what didn't junior's involvement was with that. what the president's involvement was with that, and of course this goes in the end with the question of with anyone trying to obstruct in any way shape or form any investigation into russian ininvolvement into election and was that statement part of this. so there are a lot of questions that they want to ask donald trump jr. that are a great deal of interest to the more than people. >> it seems like a good question to ask a lawyer. jonathan turnly, we know reince priebus has been called in to testify, sean spicer. so really only the issue of obstruction could be of interest right there. how hard of a case is that to prove? >> i think it's a much more difficult case than people make out to be.
obstruction of justice generally raises the question of obstruct what. are they obstructing the jury's investigation which is a classic type of case. this meeting in the trump tower with the russians was pretty early and it's hard to imagine that would be the case for obstruction. we'd obviously don't know what mueller has. but the danger here is that when people go on the record, they -- they're risk is magnified. as a criminal defense attorney, this is the most precarious time for a client in my view. you have to stay between those and a halfgational beacons, make sure you have the statements you made earlier under law, which is lying to federal investigation. and in the mix, you have this sort of live torpedos in the water. mueller's putting a lot of pressure on manafort to see,
obviously if he will cooperate and give him something. >> a lot of these people certainly don't have the same interest legally speaking. everyone thanks so much. coming up, it's a story the white house want to go away but they keep saying statements that isn't true. also ahead, the white house also refuses to acknowledge that two former presidents were criticizing the current president. they didn't say his fame but the point was pretty clear. when you're close to the people you love, does psoriasis ever get in the way of a touching moment? if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, you can embrace the chance of completely clear skin with taltz. taltz is proven to give you a chance at completely clear skin. with taltz, up to 90% of patients
had a significant improvement of their psoriasis plaques. in fact, 4 out of 10 even achieved completely clear skin. do not use if you are allergic to taltz. before starting you should be checked for tuberculosis. taltz may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you are being treated for an infection or have symptoms. or if you have received a vaccine or plan to. inflammatory bowel disease can happen with taltz. including worsening of symptoms. serious allergic reactions can occur. now's your chance at completely clear skin. just ask your doctor about taltz. now's your chance at completely clear skin. (cheering) a triangle solo? surprising.
what's not surprising? how much money sam and yohanna saved by switching to geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. i just saved thousands in less than a minute, i found out how much home i can afford. i like how you shop for loans the same way you shop for flights online. i didn't realize at lendingtree you can save money on almost any sort of loan. i consolidated my credit card debt with a personal loan. i found a new credit card with 0% interest for 15 months. you just shop, compare, and save. and it's all free. go to lendingtree right now and start saving.
tonight we're keeping them honest with a wish from the white house, that frankly we share. the story of the president's call to a grieving widow and the president surrounding it would just go away. frankly it will not go away if the president and his chief of staff secretary are saying things that aren't true. today the chief was brought out to talk about it and that should the evidence. the president tweeted, quote the fake news is going flaky with congressman woman wilson who was secretly on a private call and gave a fake content. the congresswoman was with
jonathan's widow, myesha when the phone call came. both the congresswoman and the woman who raised johnson say the president's phone call left the family feeling disrespected. again, we'd like nothing more than to just focus on them. the white house makes that impossible by continuing to say thing that aren't true. the latest example, john kelly's attack on the congresswoman yesterday. he told a story about going to a feel office in may of 2015 dedicated to who -- he falsely claimed at that dedication representative wilson took credit for getting funding for that building. here's how he characterized her speech at that event. >> the congresswoman stood up and in the long tradition of empty barrels making the most
noise, stood up there and all of that and talked about how she was instrumental in getting the funding for that building. now, she took care of her constituents because she got the money, and she called up president obama and on that phone call he gave the money, $20 million to build the building and she sat down. we were stunned, stunned that she'd done it. even for someone that is that empty a barrel we were stunned. >> so keeping them honest, there is video of that speech and kelly's claim isn't true. the speech was posted, representative wilson speaking about the fbi approaching her office wanting the building dedication to happen in four weeks. >> everyone said that's impossible, it takes at least 8 months to a year to complete the process through the house, the senate and to the president's
office. i said, i'm a school principal, and i said excuse my french, oh heal hell no, we're going to get this done. immediately, i went to attack mode. i went to the speaker, speaker bayne and i said mr. speaker, i need your help. the fii needs your help and our country needs your help and we have in time to waste. he went into attack mode and in two somedays pulled it out of committee, brought it to the floor for a vote. representative and i presented it, we all voted, and i dashed it over to the senate and put our senators on notice. put it on your radar, senator nelson and rubio who i believe have representatives here today. they hot lined it to the senate
floor in just two days, and guess what, the president signed the bill into law this past tuesday, april 7, 2015, with a bang bang bang. >> so, she spoke about how she got help in gaming the building quickly. really, the bulk of her speech was speaking glowingly about the current of two fbi agents and first responders in general. she's not talking about getting money at all as general kelly said. today white house secretary sanders was pressed about that inaccuracy. >> she was talking about naming the building which she wen on to praise -- >> she also mention that had and had quite a few comments that day that weren't part of that speech and video that were also witnessed by many people that were there. what general kelly referenced
yesterday. >> well, tell us then specifically. >> exactly what he said there was a lot of grand standing, he was stunned she had taken that opportunity to make it about herself. >> can le come out and talk to us about that point. >> i think he addressed that thoroughly yesterday. >> but he was wrong, he was talking about the money -- >> if you want to go up into a debate against general kelly -- >> keeping them honest and with all due respect, as long as a state government official says things that are not true we will continue to report it even if it's the general. they may want to tell the boss at our latest installments there are trump tweets for every occasion. he's done it. let's go to sarah marie at the white house. sarah, i do understand press
secretary sanders released a statement of what she said earlier that the media shouldn't question a four-star general, what's she saying now. >> reporter: that's right. this evening she seems to be trying to moderate that comment. she says of course
everyone can be questioned but after witnessing general kelly's heart felt and somber account we should all agree he b will be able to -- just questioning his version of events whether there was an accurate statement what he was talking about wen he was describing the congresswoman at that 2015 building dedication. the tape did not reflect the same thing that general kelly recalled. >> it's a false statement he's
creating there. no one was questioning his correct on the issue of how to honor fallen soldiers they were questioning how he made something up during her speech in 2015 and he was doing just that. sanders also mentioned that there were more comments that congresswoman wilson made off camera at the event that day? what's the white house saying about that is there any evidence? >> reporter: this is a little perplexing, the video of this speech the congresswoman made came out and she did not make comments which reflect what john kelly's reflection was. we went and asked if they could provide those comments or any records of those, so far nothing from the white house we're still waiting to hear. >> joining us mark kurtly, john cur by and general hurtly.
general hurtly we'll start with you, first of all is it okay if i ask your permission to ask you a question. >> john, i don't mind to be flip because this is kind of serious but are you sure you'd want to get into a debate with me because i have most of the facts. >> i'm not sure about that. what about the notion as sarah sanders said today? and president trump implied because he's a four-star general anything he says should not be questioned. >> well, first of all like him i'm also a retired general and it puts him in the same category which that i am which is retired. even when he was in active duty he was being questioned by congress. so that philosophy is down the drain, it's ridiculous. what i'm concerned about john, we're using this general officer, my general, my military
to continue the deviciveness that's within the government today. this is about misdemeanor, table manners. how do you treat one another sitting around the table? is it continual insults, continuing to find fault with someone else for what they did? are we trying as a nation to address some of the key issues that face us today. so long we caught up in this craziness, and it is craziness we're not going to solve problems and come together and do some things leaders do and pull all sides together. >> general kelly said some meaningful thing for sacrifice and appreciation for it. really important that people should hear but it's difficult to take that into account when he also says things proven not to be true. sarah sanders was asked if john
kelly was going to come out and explain what he said. and it was said he addressed that thoroughly. do you agree with that? >> no. the fact that he gave details that's accurate but the details weren't kratd themselves. i was a spokesman, that was my stock and trade in the navy, and when you get something wrok you issue a correction. you say look, facts is wrong, you admitted it and here's the truth and move on. all she did today, in showing her ignorance about the military culture and all of us should be open to scrutiny and question, in addition to that she flunked the fundamental rule of pr. if you make a mistake admit it. >> paul, i want to ask you. general kelly did say something meaningful, does its distract from that message when he said something that's not true? >> yes. this is all political now. i think it's going on for a week, the country's exhausted by
it. there's another term here command climate. the president said the command climate, the tone for the entire white house. there's a tone that seems to be focused internally than ex trnlly on our enemies. and using our troops as a shield, over and over again whether it's the national anthem, or the general four stars. it's bad for america. and it also distracts us from fighting our enemies who are thrilled to see america rips itself apart. the president's got to do one more thing, set a goal, what's the point where are we going. i think the president needs to address how this is going to help our military, families and america. >> we're going to take a quick break and continue this discussion next. we do have breaking news on the ambush that is at the center of this controversy and finding
answers to that is so important. we have new details about where sergeant la davis's body was found and what it could mean for the investigation. stay with us. t-mobile's unlimited now includes netflix on us. that's right. netflix on us. get 4 unlimited lines for just $40 bucks each. taxes and fees included. and now netflix included. so go ahead. binge on us. another reason why t-mobile is america's best unlimited network.
if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's, attentio and your symptoms have left you with the same view, it may be time for a different perspective. if other treatments haven't worked well enough, ask your doctor about entyvio, the only biologic developed and approved just for uc and crohn's. entyvio works by focusing right in the gi-tract to help control damaging inflammation and is clinically proven to begin helping many patients achieve both symptom relief as well as remission. infusion and serious allergic reactions can happen during or after treatment. entyvio may increase risk of infection, which can be serious. while not reported with entyvio, pml, a rare, serious brain infection caused by a virus may be possible. tell your doctor if you have an infection, experience frequent infections, or have flu-like symptoms, or sores. liver problems can occur with entyvio. if your uc or crohn's medication isn't working for you, ask your gastroenterologist about entyvio.
entyvio. relief and remission within reach. as we mentioned tonight, the white house apparently would like nothing for this whole conversation about military families to go away. sarah sanders today keeping the story going. listen to this. >> i think it's real simple. you guys are the ones talking a lot about that story and he felt it was important to around you and all of america directly. this story has been given an enormous amount of coverage over the last 48 hours and he thought it was important that people got a full and accurate picture of what took place. should have ended yesterday after general kelly's comments but it didn't, it continued and it's still continuing today. >> as we pointed out the president though in his own way continues to keep the story
going. again he talked about it in another interview airing tonight on fox. let's bring the panel back in. admiral let me start with you. how do we now get past this? how does this move forward? what should the white house say over the next few days? >> nothing. they should just stop talking about this. aside from correcting the record about general kelly's comments about the wilson speech, aside from that they should just stop and focus on the families of the fallen. making sure those families of those four, soldiers get all the support they need and stop talking about it. he couldn't help himself in other fox business interview tonight, instead of making this a competition make it about those families and stop talking. >> general harley last night you said you thought one purpose for gung to the podium was to send a message to the united states. for him to look at what he's doing right now, any sense or
sign the message has resonated? >> i don't know. i did say that. here's what i'll say too, john, to answer your question what you just asked, john. and that is, we are wrapping ourselves in emotion. ar stoptal a long time ago says we should combine our arguments with facts, reason and emotion. as long as we keep wrapping ourselves in the flag, there's no one that loves the plastic bag and there country more than me but if that's the only thing we're looking at and not the facts and rationale behind different arguments we're beginning to be in trouble. so it's not only a requirement for our government officials to stop using the military and the flag as a barrier to all we're doing, it's up to the people too to find out the facts and reason behind things as oppose to the clear bread emotion that comes to the forefront of these situations and that's what we
appear to be doing. >> you said a lot. there is -- for folks you've talked to, people you were close to how are they responding? >> they're disgusting and i think at some levels they are demoralized. some people are pulling away from the discussions and politics. i think there country is starved of leadership. what should everyone do, if they really want to support gold-star families what should they do? we recommend they support nonprofit groups and reach out. the president can direct money, attention and media, he can also focus on other things, like in phoenix today a 33-year-old veteran shot himself. there's a massive suicide problem. he can take care of so much more else he just have to shift that twitter account to something
else and everything else will follow. >> admiral, i feel like i've had more discussions with gold-star families this week and hearing from them has been valuable. there is something that's come out of this. >> i think the elevation that has come from the media coverage and in that regard has been healthy. three messages should come out from this, one is these gold-star families grieve in their own way. none of them suffer this kind of sorrow in a cooky cutter approached and you need to respect that. number two, messages transmitted doesn't mean it's always received. it can be received in a way that hurt them and he should be man enough to recognize that and apologize for it. number three, i think it's time we have a very serious conversation, not just about the gold-star families and the families of the fallen and wounded but about the civil military divide in this country,
where it's going and how we can bridge those gaps. all of us have responsibility, certainly us vets but every american does and i think we need to have a serious conversation. to paul's point, that's what the president can be focusing on right now. how to have that conversation in a mature thoughtful way. >> guys thank you for having this mature conversation. up next the deadly ambush that's the heart of this whole thing. la davis johnson's body was found a mile from the attack. more on this when cnn continues. ♪ when you think of saving money, what comes to mind? your next getaway? connecting with family and friends? a big night out? or maybe your everyday shopping.
whatever it is, aarp member advantages can help save you time and money along the way. so when you get there, you can enjoy it all the more. for less. surround yourself with savings at aarpadvantages.com we can now repair complex at saortic aneurysmsare, without invasive surgery. if we can do that, imagine what we can do for varicose veins. and if we can precisely treat eye cancer with minimal damage to the rest of the eye, imagine what we can do for glaucoma, even cataracts. if we can use dna to diagnose the rarest of diseases, imagine what we can do for the conditions that affect us all.
johnson's remains were found nearly a mile from the ambush. b barbara star joins us with more. what are you learning? >> they are putting the pieces together, john. what multiple sources are telling us from the administration is the pentagon now calculates that la davis johnson was found up to a mile away from the central part of the ambush. now, they're trying to figure out how did he get there, who saw him last, where did he see them, how did he become separated from the members of his other unit. a key piece of information will be what other members of team will be able to tell military investigators about the ambush and how it all unfolded, a top general now in charge of that investigation. >> officials previously told cnn that the french air support was not authorized to fire or drop
bombs during this fire fight, now you're learning this is not the case? >> right. with new reports additional information comes in and people clarify things. officials telling us the french did have authority to fire their weapons but the jets that came in, they fly high and move fast and the pilots were not able to discern the difference on the ground where the u.s. troops were, where the insurgence were, they didn't want to hit the u.s. so they did not in fact fire. >> barbara, one orr key today we're learning the fbi is assisting the authorities in the investigation. what can you tell us about that? >> they are doing that and trying to figure out who the insurgence were, what part of isis they belong to. and if they can identify them and go after them. i want to also add in that the pentagon today is very adamant they did not stop loolg for la
david johnson. they made a point of making sure we knew that the u.s. forces were on the ground around the clock looking for him during that 24-hour period. he was missing, john. >> thank you barbara. joining me james gal know. james, the fact that the body is sergeant la david johnson, the body was found a mile away from the scene of the ambush does it make that more challenging for the fbi agents to get answer? >> john, sure, it's going to be daunting going forward. we understand flying out of new york or fort dicks it's 5,000 miles across the atlantic ocean and africa to get to niger. they assemble what's been called
a support team, it's run out of the state department, it'll be fbi agents on board, folks from the state department, security folks, folks that can handle what needs to be handled on this ground. >> so the rapid deployment force what will be their mission? >> response capabilities with the fbi. what their job will be is a number of thing, first and foremost now that the area's going to be secure, you're going to use military assets to secure but they'll bring in parts of fbi swat team and the hostage team will secure it. then it's going to be a pain staking crime scene investigation. as you eluded to earlier, the difficulty of this we're not abducting a crime scene version in milwaukee, we're doing it 5,000 miles away in an area that
suba hair rande sert. some of the evidence could be gone, the evidence could be telltale sign of whether it was iran, we know for sure it was isis. >> two weeks after in what could very well be hostile territory. based on your experience, how difficult is it going to be to get the answers that everyone wants here? >> it's going to be difficult john, as daunting as it is i've got the utmost trust and confidence in the folks handling this piece. i've seen it done from the east african bombings in 1998. to the eastern europe war crimes and turning up, you know mass graves that have been basically put together, you know two years prior. i'm confident. these teams have got experience of recent in ben ga zee and parts of africa and other parts of europe, they know what
they're doing. they're sending the best folks and we should get answers here soon. >> thank you so much. up next the white house responding to former presidents bush and obama's criticism saying they weren't talking about president trump. really? we'll get into that next. fresh soaps. and of course, tripadvisor's freshest, lowest... ...prices. so if you're anything like me... ...you'll want to check tripadvisor. we now instantly compare prices... ...from over 200 booking sites... ...to find you the lowest price... ...on the hotel you want. go on, try something fresh. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices.
can give you confidence to take the next step. hi guys! aw yeah! see how access to j.p. morgan investment expertise can help you. chase. make more of what's yours. . today the white house responded to scathing criticisms from former presidents bush and obama about the current direction of american politics. this is what sarah sanders sated. >> in general does the white house feel it's appropriate for past presidents to be critical of the sitting president? >> i'm not sure the last time they spoke, but our understanding is that those comments were not directed towards the president. in fact, when these two individuals criticized the president they've done so by
name and very rarely do it without become pretty direct as both of them tend to be. so we'll take them at their word these comments weren't directed towards the president. >> take them at their word, she says. the only problem is they haven't actually said whether or not those comments were directed at president trump. what they did say yesterday, speaks for itself. president bush pointed out nationalism, politicians who say things to get the base riled up. michael duffy, the code of conduct between former presidents. simple questions, any doubt in your mind that presidents obama and bush were talking about president trump? >> none. none. they're both -- harbor deep sense of offense.
i think hostile captures the mood. >> david, how unusual is it? you have vast person when it comes to both presidents and former presidents how unusual is it to see something like this? >> michael duffy wrote an excellent book about this. it's extremely unusual, so early in the term former presidents to break ranks. there is a club, a fraternity, and it has certain rules, and one of the first rules is former presidents try to keep their mouths shut, they clearly violated that rule because they've done it because they think other rules have been violated by this president. a president should be a uniter, not a divider. you are elected as head of your party, but you speak for all americans. secondly you are supposed to bring out the besting of america as lincoln said, to speak to the better angels of our nature.
and thirdly, you're supposed to be -- the current president, the incumbent is supposed to reach out to his predecessors and speak wisdom and advice and in turn they try to help him. >> was this a violation of club rules? >> david summed it up perfectly. it's been a situation where the current president hasn't reached out to his predecessors, and i think to just go one step further, i think that certainly in the case of obama but more notably today, yesterday, in the case of george w. bush who was very careful about crit criticizing his predecessors said nothing critical in eight years about barack obama. for george w. bush to give this speech at this moment is not an accident. it was both a plea for democracy
and the kinds of human frailties we need to keep it alive. it was also a defense of the office of the presidency. don't forget, when you've been the president, you know how frail and tricky that office is, to imminemaintain it. they are bent on undercutting and destroying the office. what you're going to see more of, former presidents saying don't mess with this institution, too important to both parties, too important to the republic to be treated this way. >> michael what wor, what we se public in george w. bush, george h. w. bush, at least michelle obama is really beyond a pleasant relationship, it's fun, it's funny. they seem to enjoy each other. that's what we see in public. what's it like behind the scenes, though? >> i think what you see is what you get. there's no question. it's interesting when you consider bill clinton and george
w. bush. they're the two presidents who are if not the closest in terms of their i do a they are the second closest. two men both born in the summer of 1946. they come from different parts of our country, different parts of your culture. they have become great friends just as clinton and bush's father have. and you're right about michelle obama and george w. bush. these are relationships that are real and, of course, you'll see that tomorrow on stage in college station when five former living presidents are gathering. that's only happened a few times in our whole nation's history. so this is kind of a moment where people who have had the office and respect the office and are concerned about the office's future will be together and speaking. we'll see if this comes up again. >> david gergen, the speeches yesterday didn't feel like advice. seemed like a takedown of
trumpism, a specific takedown. honestly, trumpism specifically in its own way is a takedown of the presidencies of barack obama and george w. bush. these things stand in opposition and trumpism won the last election. >> but there are more elections to come. i think both former presidents have their eyes on the future. obama has his eye on the coming election in virginia. if the democrats lose that race, they're going to be demoralized, but if they can win that it's going to charge them up for the 2018 getting candidates. i want to go back to this. each one of these presidents over time comes to see himself as a link in a long chain, you are the steward of the office and of the country's well-being.
for this brief period of time. they like thinking of themselves as stewards and they have a natural tendency to become friends after leaving office. definitely bill clinton with the bushes but look at gerald ford and jimmy carter. nixon of all people became the person that was turned to. the two of them have turned against this president is a serious matter, it's a big deal. >> it is a big deal. interesting to imagine one day president trump joining this club. how will he be a member snflgts. up next, new reaction from president trump on the war of words between his chief of staff and congresswoman fredricka wilson, why he says he was surprised, next. the original call was for langoustine ravioli.
a langoustine is a tiny kind of lobster. a slight shellfish allergy rules that out, plus my wife ordered the langoustine. i will have chicken tenders and tater tots. if you're a ref, you way over-explain things. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance you switch to geico. sir, we don't have tater tots. it's what you do. i will have nachos! 83% try to eat healthy, yet up to 90% fall short on getting key nutrients. let's do more. one-a-day 50 plus. complete with 100% daily value of more than 15 key nutrients. one-a-day 50 plus.
but he hasoke up wwork to do.in. so he took aleve. if he'd taken tylenol, he'd be stopping for more pills right now. only aleve has the strength to stop tough pain for up to 12 hours with just one pill. aleve. all day strong. ♪ if you wear a denture, you not only want a clean feeling every day, you want your denture to be stain free. did you know there's a specialty cleanser that's gentle enough for everyday use and cleans better than regular toothpaste? try polident cleanser. it has a four in one cleaning system that kills ten times more odor causing bacteria than regular toothpaste, deep cleans where brushing may miss, helps remove tough stains,
and maintains the original color of your dentures when used daily. for a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture, use polident every day. and my brother ray and i started searching for answers. (vo) when it's time to navigate in-home care, follow that bright star. because brightstar care earns the same accreditation as the best hospitals. and brightstar care means an rn will customize a plan that evolves with mom's changing needs. (woman) because dad made us promise we'd keep mom at home. (vo) call 844-4-brightstar for your free home care planning guide. while the white house says yesterday's statement from chief of staff john kelly should have been the end of the controversy over the president's call to a grieving widow the president keeps talking about it and he's continuing the feud with representative fredricka wilson who was there for the call. this is what the president sai