tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 13, 2017 9:00pm-10:00pm PST
throughout history, the one meal when we come together, break bread, share our day and connect as a family. [ bloop, clicking ] and connect, as a family. just, uh one second voice guy. [ bloop ] huh? hey? i paused it. bam, family time. so how is everyone? find your awesome with xfinity xfi and change the way you wifi. good evening. we begin tonight with breaking news on russia. during the campaign involving the president's son. according to new reporting in the atlantic three full weeks
before running mate mike pence denied the campaign was in cahoots with wikileaks, donald trump jr. was absolutely in touch with wick he leaks. the u.s. intelligence community believes it was chosen to spread damaging information. what's fascinating is how the communications meshed with certain points on the campaign timeline that we already know quite well. for instance, october 2nd trump friend and former adviser roger stone tweets that damaging material is coming from wikileaks. the next day, october 3rd, trump jr. messages them and asks them what's coming. on the 5th stone says there's a pay load coming from wicks i leaks. on the 12th of october wicks i leaks messages trump junior asking him to link to one of their items. two days later he tweets it out. and on that same day mike pence
denies any collusion with wikileaks. it is to say the least fascinating and not just to us. congressional investigators are also interested. in a moment you'll hear from richard blumenthal but first pamela brown with more details. explain just the sheer length of this communication went on is stunning, pam. >> it is stunning. we should note that a lot of it was one-sided from wikileaks, but there were responses in some cases from don junior. he actually released this string of messages tonight on twitter that he had with wikileaks during the presidential campaign, anderson. and this follows a report in the atlantic about those exchanges. so let's walk through them. in september of last year we know that the fist message came. it was late september 2016 where wikileaks told him, quote, a pac run anti-trump site is about to launch. don junior responded off the record i don't know who that is, but i'll ask around. thanks.
and according to the atlantic he did ask around by reaching out to members of the campaign, including trump's son-in-law, jared kushner, telling them wikileaks had reached out. it's unclear, though, in what context he was saying that, but kushner reportedly forwarded that e-mail on to hope hicks. in a separate exchange don junior reached out october 3rd asking wicks i leaks what all the fuss was about regarding the impending wikileaks release that roger stone had tweeted about at the time he was hinting at this release. and wikileaks didn't respond just then. but four days later it did release john podesta e-mails on the same day the u.s. intelligence community condemned russia for using wikileaks to release stolen e-mails. even after that wikileaks reached out again, suggesting don junior tweet out a link to his followers to more easily search the released e-mails. don junior didn't respond to that message, but he did tweet out that link two days lafrt, anderson. >> and i think in that very day that he got that direct message
from wikileaks asking him to tweet out the link, he actually said something about the story saying it doesn't get enough attention and then two days later he actually tweeted out the link. what do we know about wikileaks during this time period? >> i can tell you a couple of things. that same day that don junior tweeted out the link provided to him, mike pence said on fox news the campaign was not in cahoots with wikileaks. take a listen. >> one final question about wikileaks. some have suggested on the left, all this bad stuff about hillary, nothing about trump, that your campaign is in cahoots with wikileaks. >> nothing could be further from the truth. i think all of us have had concerns about wikileaks over the years, and it's just a reality of america. life today and of life in the wider world. but it doesn't change the fact that here you see the national
media chasing after unsubstantiated allegations, allegations that donald trump has categorically denied. >> and again, this was the same day that don junior tweeted out a link given to him by wikileaks. wikileaks continued to reach out through july of this year, but don junior did not respond to those messages. >> and i know donald trump jr. released these direct message exchange tonight after the story broke. any more reaction from him or his legal team? >> yeah. his legal team has given us a statement. he says we can say with confidence that we have no concerns about these documents and any questions raised about about them have been easily answered in the appropriate forum. a source familiar with this matter also tells us, anderson, that don junior did tell congress about the wikileaks communications. there was a broef exchange. you'll recall he had a closed door interview with the judiciary committee awhile back and during that closed door meeting this was brought up, but i'm told that it was a very brief exchange, brief line of questioning regarding this
matter, anderson. >> all right. pam brown. appreciate that. democratic senator richard blum sen that will is calling for the senate judiciary committee to immediately subpoena donald trump jr. he wants the president's son to publicly testify about the extent of these communications. he joins me now the so, nor, trump junior's attorney says this is much ado about nothing, that this information has already been provided to congress and they're not worried about it. what specifically do you want to know? >> what i want to know is the full range and content of all the communications that took place. what we see here likely is just the tip of the iceberg. there's no assurance that it is all of the communications between donald trump jr. and the wikileaks, which by the way, is characterized by the cia director, president trump's own kraib director as a hostile intelligence service abet by the russians. so here was donald trump, jr.
actively engaged with a known russian agent. i want him to be subpoenaed to testify in public about all his communications. i want there to be sums of all the relevant documents because there's no assurance, none whatsoever that we're seeing all of those documents without that kind of subpoena. >> do you believe it's possible then candidate donald trump sr. did not know his son was communicating with wikileaks? i mean, october 12th, the same day wikileaks asked trump junior to tweet about its release, trump senior tweeted that wikileaks wasn't getting enough attention. >> one of the striking contents is the casual air and tone of them. and also the fact that donald trump jr. was in fact communicating up the chain of the trump campaign organization, including very likely to his father, the candidate. so directly answering the question, there is so much
circumstantial evidence here that the president, now president was in fact knowledgeable about these communications. >> also, as you know, october 14th, the same day that donald trump junior tweeted that link that wikileaks asked him to tweet, then vice president candidate mike pence, do you want to hear from him direct ol this. >> not only from the vice president, but from the president himself. there ought to be an explanation from the president about whether he was knowledgeable about his own son actively engaged with wikileaks. there seems to be no reasonable, innocent explanation for these communications. and the trump administration owes the american people a full explanation. >> we just actually -- i just received -- this is a statement from liz landers from vice president -- the vice president pence's press secretary. she says, quote, the vice president was never aware of
anyone associated with the campaign being in contact with wikileaks. he fist learned of this news from a published report earlier tonight. what do you make of that? >> these revelations and reports, anderson, are stunning. they're jaw dropping. and it may be fine under normal circumstance for a spokesperson to say the vice president or any other official has no knowledge. that explanation should be provided by the vice president himself and without any disrespect, in my view, relevant officials of the trump administration should provide that kind of explanation in public and under oath to the judiciary committee. my hope is now that chairman grassley, who has indicated he wants to get to the bottom of these issues, will in fact issue subpoenas for donald trump jr., for jared kushner and for other relevant witnesses. and there is a pattern here.
george papadopoulos and his plea agreement is part of that pattern. >> the atlantic article only notes two incidences that donald trump jr. actually replying to wikileaks. >> great question. and it reinforces my point that we may be seeing here only the tip of the iceberg. what we've seen is some of the responses. we know that there were in fact responses in action. that is tweeting in response to it. but we may be seeing only the very tip of what was going on. >> would any of this communication in your view have broken any laws, however? >> another great question. in and of itself, each of these tweets, maybe the full range of what's in the atlantic report may not violate any law, but it is more pieces of a mosaic.
each piece itself perhaps explainable, but together with the george papadopoulos plea agreement and its communication or its indication of communications with the russians, again, communicated up the chain of command, the june 9th meeting involving known -- now known russian agents, all of it coming together and more likely to be revealed. >> does it seem also just monument alley either naive or just stupid that donald trump jr. would communicate via direct message with a twitter account he has no idea who is actually operating that twitter account, who from wikileaks, is it julian assange who is doing it, is it somebody else and he's telling them this is off the record. that just seems -- i mean, i don't know how to describe that. >> imprudent and unwise is a good way to characterize it. certainly uncharacteristic of a cofist indicated business person or a campaign official.
and whether it's illegal is another question. and you've asked it. that's the question that is no doubt on the mind of the special counsel. it should be on the minds of the judiciary committee, which should subpoena these documents because we have an obligation to protect the fbi and the department of justice from political interference as we seek to know what the full extent is and was of the russian meddling and possible trump campaign collusion. that is the evidence and the evidentiary value of these communications, collusion and what exactly it shows about it. >> and finally, these are now two instances with donald trump jr. would it would be very easy, and we don't know whether this happened or not, but it would be hard to believe really that he did not at some point tell his father, oh you know what? i'm in direct communication with wikileaks or wikileaks is making these suggestions to me just as when he has this meeting with a
lawyer who is supposedly representing the kremlin with dirt on hillary clinton, the idea that he never told his father about that meeting, it just -- that's now two instances where the idea that donald trump jr., who is knowingly communicating with somebody he has no idea who they are and suggesting that their conversation is off the record would not tell his father or would keep it from his father. again, we don't know that there's evidence that he did, but it's highly questionable. >> there seems to be no reasonable innocent explanation for these communications, and there seems to be no circumstantial evidence to say he didn't communicate with his father. in fact, on the opposite side, his father drafted a statement for him to explain the june 9th meeting while on air force one. and we know also that his father tweeted seemingly in response to these communications. but again, the pieces of mosaic
are coming together. >> yeah. and he sent out an e-mail to bannon, kellyanne conway, to hope hicks, oh, i'm in communication with wikileaks. appreciate you being on tonight. up next, reaction to all this from the former director of national intelligence, james clapper. also ahead tonight our breaking news, another woman comes forward accusing alabama senate candidate roy moore of sexual conduct saying he assaulted her when she was of. what she told reporters today in her own words and mr. moore's reaction when we continue. when i was a navy seal, i trained as hard as i could to stay alive. i have more than 30 pieces of shrapnel still in my leg. but i still push myself to the limit. if it weren't for my tempur-pedic, i wouldn't be able to sleep on my left side at all. ♪ the tempur-pedic veteran's day savings event is here, and now is the time to take advantage of this incredible offer. save up to $500 instantly on select tempur-pedic adjustable mattress sets. find your exclusive retailer today at tempurpedic.com. you're more than just a bathroom disease..
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breaking news tonight, communication between donald trump jr. and wikileaks during the campaign comes after two solid days of controversy over what president trump said over the weekend about russian meddling. saturday he appeared to side with vladimir putin on the subject and called key intelligence officials at the time political hacks. yesterday he walked back his remarks somewhat saying he believed that putin believed there was no meddling and he said he's got no issue now with the intelligence community
leaders as it is presently run. i want to get reaction to all of this, someone we know is the former director of national intelligence james clapper. thanks for being with us. first of all, on this wikileaks story i just have to ask, were you aware of any of this when you were director of national intelligence? >> no, i was not. i mean, we knew about the connection -- between the russians and wikileaks, although weren't sure, at least i wasn't, whether that was a witting or unwitting relationship. in other words, whether the russians were just using wikileaks as a cut out or whether there was actually an overt relationship. and i didn't know that at the time. you know, the thing about all this for me is, you know, you run out of adjectives to describe the daily revelations that come out. and this is another startling one that's incredible and all
that sort of thing. you have to sort of step back and think about the big picture here about why on earth the trump camp was engaging with the russians at all and now wikileaks, which as others have recited, director mike pompeo's characterization of wikileaks as a nonnation state hostile intelligence service, which i completely agree with. so why on earth would there be any contact? what earthly reason would there be that was positive for any of these contacts, whether russians, wikileaks or anything else. >> also, doesn't it seem just incredibly irresponsible for donald trump jr. to be communicating with somebody he has no idea who it is on the other side of a direct message and then suggesting that i aconversation is -- this is off the record between you and me, you know, me and you, this anonymous person i have no idea who they are?
>> yeah. it is really using an over worked here, incredible that the lack of concern about security. and it makes me wonder whether they were really taking themselves seriously, whether this is really a serious campaign, they really thought they could win it. because of the cavalier manner in which a lot of these communications went on. and of course, as we all know, e-mails are forever. and so it appears to me that weren't too careful about the audit trail here of communications with some questionable characters. >> it's also amazing, i mean, according to the atlantic, october 12th wikileaks reaches out to donald trump jr. thanking for his father saying something nice about wikileaks when the capped had earlier said i love wicks i leaks, suggesting that his dad tweet out a link to wikileaks. donald trump jr. doesn't
respond, but 15 minutes later from the time that this message is received, donald trump himself tweets out very little pick up by the dishonest media of incredible information provided by wikileaks. so dishonest, rigged system. and then two days later trump junior does in fact tweet out the link that wikileaks has asked him to tweet out. >> yeah. well, the plot thickens here. >> that's either a huge coincidence or somebody talked to candidate trump about it. >> well, i think it unlikely that it's coincidental. and i do think that will, again, whatever met for you want to use, piece of the puzzle, tile of the mosaic, whatever, is that -- and i am sure special counsel mueller is doing this is to do a very detailed, meticulous reconstruction of the sequence of all these events, these communications and then in turn what was said publicly. but, again, you know, the
pitfall here, i think, is getting into the weeds of each of these startling revelations on a day-to-day basis and kind of losing sight of the bigger picture here. >> just how bizarre and inappropriate. does this qualify as collusion to you? not with russia per se, but with wikileaks. >> well, as i've said before, i'm not an attorney and i don't know what constitutes collusion. and i'm not even sure that's a legal -- that's an offense. >> right. it's not. >> it certainly has the appearance and smell and feel of a developing conspiracy. >> director clapper. appreciate your time. more on the legal and political implications next with our panel of experts. we'll be right back. it's the phillips' lady!
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more on our breaking news of secret communications been donald trump junior and wick i weeks. joining me now to discuss cnn chief legal analyst jeffrey toobin, phil mudd, david frohm. >> jeff, the fact that donald trump jr. is basically acting on the advice of wikileaks at times, it's certainly incredible. is it unlawful. >> it may be. you know, we're getting a lot
closer to an actual violation of the law with this evidence. for example, it's illegal for a campaign to solicit or receive campaign contributions from a foreign individual or a foreign company. now, that campaign contribution can be cash or it can be an in-kind contribution, anything of value. here you have at least suggestive evidence that the trump campaign is soliciting and receiving information from -- which has value. this is opposition research. and opposition research campaigns pay for all the time. the fact that the campaign seems in active coordination with this nonamerican entity, wikileaks, certainly suggests the possibility of at least a criminal investigation if not an actual crime. >> and phil, according to the atlantic, donald trump jr. then
sends an e-mail to the other top people in the campaign saying, hey, i'm in touch with wikileaks. jared kushner forwards that e-mail to hope hicks. >> yes. one of the things you've got to look at here, anderson, is we're just talking about one avenue. that is what don junior looked at. you've got to look at this as an investigation as a multiplication table. so as you said there's multiple people now he's communicating with related to his exchange with wikileaks. i want to know every phone, e-mail, twitter contact between anybody in the campaign, including don junior and wikileaks. and then you have aim second question, is that is during the interviews of all these individuals, what do they say about those exchanges with wikileaks and do they talk about whether there were conversations within the campaign. there's one other question i can't answer, anderson and that's a technical question. i'd be going to twitter and say what's your recordkeeping. can you give us all the information related to these individuals and any contact with any wikileaks related account. so this really makes the --
gives you a picture of why these investigations are so complicated. >> steve, i keep trying to think about this from the perspective of russian intelligence, you know, learning over the course of time, beyond what the hacking was, but that all these people in the trump campaign, you know, carter page, papadopoulos, mike flynn, seem willing or open to at least communication. >> yeah, anderson. what you're beginning to see now from the counterintelligence perspective is these dots that are beginning to be connected. we're seeing more and more of the actual influence campaign that the russian intelligence services were waging. and i think it's quite clear now that they were targeting pretty heavily donald trump jr. we saw it with the veselnitskaya meeting where he met with the russian lawyer after expressing any great interest in any derogatory information about the lawyer might have on hillary clinton. and now we're seeing it again through another russian cut out. remember, the russian lawyer was
the cut out the first time. and this time it's wikileaks. and so we see the willingness of them to do it. one of the interesting things about running these covert action and these covert influence programs is, you know, your supervise, your bosses always want to know are they effective. how can we tell that we're really changing peoples' minds. if wikileaks sends something to donald trump jr. and 15 minutes later that same message comes out of donald trump sr., the candidacy mouth, that's a pretty good indication that you have really good impact with your operation and that you're being successful. and by the way, you might say that somebody like papadopoulos is some volunteer or part time guy, donald trump jr. is not a part time son. he's not a paid son. he's a member of the family, which would make him that much more valuable to the russian intelligence services. >> david, the other thing is if, you know, just to his point, donald trump sr. says something 15 minutes after donald trump jr. receives this e-mail from -- this direct message from
wikileaks saying your dad should tweet this stuff out. if it took 15 minutes and we don't know if donald trump jr. did talk to donald trump sr., but it raises a lot of questions and seems luke a huge coincidence, but if he was willing to talk to his dad based on that, the idea that he didn't talk to his dad based on this meeting he had when a russian lawyer allegedly from the kremlin told him that he has dirt on hillary clinton and that the kremlin is supporting his dad's campaign, is that seems hard to believe that he wouldn't have talked to his dad. >> this circle of influence that you're describing casts a very important light on the very important question you asked in this interview. to the question are any laws broken. it is illegal for an american to solicit anything of value from a foreigner. there's an exception to that rule, which is none of election law applies to media organizations. so one of the defenses that was going -- that the trump people were preparing as this case hot up was to say even if we did cooperate with wikileaks, that's
legal because wikileaks is a media organization. the revelation of the methods of wikileaks that we see in these direct messages i think casts powerf powerful contradiction to that. it's not acting like a media organization. media organizations do not call on defeated candidates to contest the results of an election. if wikileaks is not a media organization, then all of this has a much more sinister -- donald trump jr. has a defense and the trump campaign has a defense and i think after today if anybody did believe that wikileaks was a media organization, they're a lot less likely too. >> anderson, if i can just jump in there. >> go ahead. >> mike pompeo, who is donald trump's director of central intelligence has said repeatedly that wikileaks is an agent of influence of the russian government. so, you know, as for what
wikileaks really is, donald trump's cia has a very clear view and it is not that wikileaks is some online magazine. it is that it's an agent of the russian government. >> yeah. and donald trump junior was willing to communicate with them without even knowing the actual person he was communicating to and claiming off the record conversations. up next, our other big story tonight. another accuser coming forward with serious sexual misconduct allegations against senate candidate roy moore. what she says happened in her own words and the swift reaction from capitol hill when we continue. ♪ ♪ you nervous? ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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another woman came forward today accusing alabama u.s. senate candidate roy moore of sexual misconduct, in this case when she was 16 and he was in his 30s. and as the list of accusers grew the number of defenders slang with more sitting senators telling moore to get out of the race. some however do not, nor do they believe the "washington post" which first broke this story. moore in fact is vowing to sue the post and we'll talk more about that shortly. but as we said today, another woman did come forward. her name is beverly young nelson. she said that back in 1977 moore sexually assaulted her in his car after offering her a ride home from the restaurant where she worked and he ate.
misnelson spoke to reporters this afternoon. we want to play a critical portion of it. you can decide for yourself what to make of her allegations. >> he stopped the car. he stopped the car and parked his car in between the dumpster and the back of the restaurant where there were no lights. the area was dark and it was deserted. i was alarmed and i immediately asked him what he was doing. instead of answering my questions, mr. moore reached over and began groping me, putting his hands on my breasts. i tried to open my car door to leave, but he reached over and he locked it so i could not get
out. i tried fighting him off while yelling at him to stop, but instead of stopping he began squeezing my neck, attempting to force my head on to his crotch. i continued to struggle. i was determined that i was not going to allow him to force me to have sex with him. i was terrified. he was also trying to pull my shirt off. i thought that he was going to rape me. i was twisting and i was struggling and i was begging him to stop. i had tears running down my face. at some point -- at some point he gave up and he then looked at me and he told me, he said you're just a child and he said
i am the district attorney of etowah county, and if you tell anyone about this, no one will ever believe you. >> revealing what she says happened to her when she was 16 years old in roy moore's car. some of roy's defenders and mr. moore himself raising questions about the motivation for the women coming forward and attacking the "washington post" which first broke this story. >> i do not expect the "washington post" to stop. i think they have political agenda, and i think they're running that agenda and everybody in this room, every person watching on these cameras should ask their self, isn't it strange that after 40 years of constant investigation people have waited till four weeks prior to the general election to bring their complaints? >> now, whatever you make of the allegations, and roy moore denies them, this notion that these women waited decades to
come forward until it would be politically most damaging to him doesn't seem to stand up. i just want to read you a passage from the "washington post" original story about 14-year-old leigh corfman and three other teens. neither the women sought out the post. while reporting a story in alabama about reporters in moore's senate campaign, a post reporter heard that moore reportedly sought relationships with teenage girls. all were initially reluctant to speak publicly but chose to do so after multiple interviews saying they thought it was important for people to know about their interactions with moore. the post, by the way, says it based its reporting on upwards of 30 people who knew moore. subsequently at the time moore was known to date high schoolers. >> theresa john spoke to cnn today and she told us it was common knowledge that roy dated high school girls. everyone we knew thought it was weird. we wondered why someone his age
would hang out at high school football games and the hall mall, but you really wouldn't say anything to someone like that. >> well, we should point out that alabama's age of consent then and now is 16. we should also point out that this lit latest accuser who was 16 at the time says explicitly as you just heard a moment ago that her encounter was anything but consensual. prior to beverly young nelson coming forward moore was threatening to sue the post. he's yet to sue and has yet to discredit the storyment however, late today he did respond. his wife as well, to the latest allegations. >> i want to make it perfectly clear the people of alabama know me. they know my character. they know what i've stood for in the political world for over 40 years. and i can tell you without hesitation this is absolutely false. i never did what she said i did. i don't even know the woman. i don't know anything about her. i don't even know where the restaurant is or was.
>> you heard roadway moore said he did not know his accuser. at her press conference today she showed a page from her year book. an insubscription in it wrote. the signature apparently roy moore. meantime his support has been collapsing all day among national republicans. cnn's preiana keerl joins us now. a lot of calls for him to drop out. >> that's right. there's a growing number, anderson of republicans who are saying that moore needs to drop out of the race period, no caveat. now, some are saying that they pulled their endorsement of moore, but as you'll recall, the line coming from republicans when this story first broke was that if these allegations are true, moore should step aside. so now you have a lot of republicans, a growing number who are dropping that if true. and they're just saying that he needs to get out and this has really been -- it's come from a few republicans over the weekend
and then mitch mcconnell, the senate majority leader weighed in in kentucky today and he said that he believed the accusers. so clearly he said he found them credible. we're hearing this from an increasing number of republicans as well. and he said that moore needs to step aside. so now the question is where does this go? mcconnell talked about the idea of a write in candidacy and looking at that. we heard from senator richard shelby. he floated the idea of jeff sessions or luther strange who was roy moore's primary opponent. but luther strange himself here on the hill today pouring some cold water on that saying a write in candidacy would be highly up likely. >> could senators actually refuse to seat him? >> i don't know about refusing to seat him, but expelling him is a very real possibility, and that is what senator cory gardner, who keep in mind he is the head of the campaign arm for republican senators. he's got his eye on the midterm
election. he's certainly worried that this is something that is going to drag down other senate republicans who are incumbents. and he said that if roy moore refuses to withdraw and he wins the senate should expel him. that is something that would take two-thirds of the chamber to push forward. so that would need democratic support. there isn't a firm word yet on where democratic leadership is on this, but i was talking to one senator who has been here -- he would there wouldn't be a situation where he would not vote to expel roy moore. roadway moore being a problem for republicans is something that favors democrats politically, but this senator said, look, politics aside, roy moore is not good for the senate. so does there seem to be some democratic support in an effort to expel him if he's seated. it's a real possibility is what this democratic senator said to
me, anderson. >> appreciate it. thanks very much. support among his base in alabama still strong in many places. we'll get into that with our panel when we come back. crohn's disease. you're more than just a bathroom disease. you're a life of unpredictable symptoms. crohn's, you've tried to own us. but now it's our turn to take control with stelara® stelara® works differently for adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower the ability of your immune system to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis. before or during treatment, always tell your doctor if you think you have an infection or have flu-like symptoms or sores, have had cancer, or develop any new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion, and vision problems. these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. we're fed up with your unpredictability.
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up against him. mitch mcconnell saying moore should step aside, and gop senators joined in. many are sticking with roy moore, though. >> after the initial story broke, i had more support. my phone actually rang off the hook for almost 24 hours. >> people saying they wanted to volunte volunteer, things like that for the campaign? >> yes, people wanted to volunteer, signs for the yard, people who say i don't believe it, he's a good man and we want to show our support for him, yes, absolutely. >> a perspective from peter binarc and chief political correspondent dana bash. and ed martin. dana, i know you've been talking to your sources on capitol hill and elsewhere. how do you see this playing out? >> it's completely unclear. i think it's as clear as mud right now. you saw this avalanche of republican leaders, republican rank and file, even people like ted cruz who had endorsed roy moore appeared to rescind it and
leaving out the if-true part, which we had heard through the weekend, especially from the white house. but how they deal with it in real terms, if roy moore does go ahead and win this special election, stays on the ballot and wins in december, it's going to be as ugly as it gets because there doesn't seem to be a mechanism for the senate to keep him from being seated, but there is a mechanism to kick him out, it's called expulsion. even the top republican in charge of electing republicans, keeping gop seats in place is saying he wants to start expulsion proceedings as soon as more gets in, and he's not alone. >> ed, i know you're dismiss i've of establishment republicans. do you agree with senator ted cruz? you said the burden is on moore
to provide a demonstration that the accusations are false, and short of that he's not going to support moore. >> i'm not sure the question, anderson. i disagree with mike lee and ted cruz, for sure. we're in a good old fashioned political hit. and i've said this with don the other night. the fact is just this works 40 days before the election. i read the "new york times" story, i read it to prepare for this, be but gloria allred gets to say all the facts, and "the new york times" didn't check any of them. they admit, we didn't check any facts, we just took gloria allred's word for it. this is an extraordinary indictment. and by the way, if the indictment of elected officials and candidates is premisesed on just women saying something, in this case just women, then bill clinton should have been thrown out for what the women said. the standard is this, roy moore is 70 years old and has never had an allegation like thp and
suddenly he has a lit any of it. what it's exposing is that "the washington post" is way out of touch with we the people, and i hope alabama votes for who they want for this seat, and when they do, let the senate reject people and we'll go right down the line: the people on tv, including some you said, we'll go right down the line and we'll indict them for their personal conduct because many of them that you cite, we'll get someone to say so and so does such and such. we're in dangerous territory and it's a real shame. any of the women coming forward deserve to be heard, but the fact they're being counted as true and, therefore, the guy should be thrown out of office is amazing to me. >> peter, how do you see it? >> why would these women possibly lie? these are not -- sorry. >> let him finish. you went on for a long time. let him finish. >> these are not political people, right? did you watch that woman giving a press conference? do you think she was enjoying that process? this is obviously deeply traumatic stuff.
we know from "the washington post," the women did not come forward, "the washington post" had to find them and convince them to participate, and most of them were trump supporters. just because it appeared in "the washington post," which happens to be one of america's best newspapers, and because this happened before the election, therefore it must be made up, these women also talked to people at the time. they talked about the incident decades ago. again, what possible motive would they have to lie? >> ed? >> anderson, peter just said like seven things that i didn't say. i didn't say because they said it, they lied. i said 40 days before an election to roll out a systemic plan and to have the members of congress condemn him -- >> you said this is a systematic plan, what evidence do you have? >> it's pretty clear it's an order, right?
by the way, just because "the washington post" says they didn't seek them out, it doesn't mean -- we know the campaign >> ed, are you saying that this is some sort of plot by "the washington post" at the behest of democrats or mainstream republicans? >> no. no. of course -- well, yes, i'm saying that the establishment in this case made clear they didn't want him, obviously the democrats don't want him, and it's a systematic effort to discredit him. what i said was you're saying they have to be true and moore has to be lying. and i'm saying moore has a right to be taken by truth. and for those of who who have known him for 40, 50 years in public life, his word has been pretty good. he's never been alleged before -- he's been alleged to do a lot of things in terms of politics and policy, but never this. suddenly your life is transformed by people saying it. >> peter and then dana. >> i think these women's lives were transformed by what appears
to be his terrible abuse of power. it's the same thing we saw with donald trump, and i think you're right to bill clinton. >> good. >> when you have six women who don't know each other and keep coming forward despite the fact it's difficult for them to come forward, this is not an easy thing for them to do, and then to be attacked all over the place by all these people, there's just -- it belies credulity. >> dana? >> here's what i would say. what we're witnessing between these two gentlemen, maybe replace peter with an establishment republican is an illustration of what has been going on within the republican party, it's bearing out with a very, very unfortunate, horrible story, allegations and defense that this isn't true. but at the end of the day -- and we talked about this the night this broke last week, roy moore was never the candidate for the
establishment. they cringe at the notion separating all of this from his record, but just in terms of what we know that he has said and supported with regard to his experience in the state supreme court. and so that is the bottom line. and i think at the end of the day, the big question is what is president trump going to do when he returns. is he going to weigh in? and even if he does go on the side of mcconnell, whether or not that's going to make a difference. >> i have to take a break. weir going to have more in our next hour. more on our breaking news on donald trump jr.'s secret messages with wikileaks. how these twitter messages match up with key dates. and what donald trump jr.'s attorney is saying tonight,
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