tv CNN Newsroom Live CNN November 21, 2017 12:00am-1:00am PST
eczema again? it's fine. i saw something the other day. eczema exposed. your eczema could be something called atopic dermatitis, which can be caused by inflammation under your skin. maybe you should ask your doctor? go to eczemaexposed.com to learn more. hello and welcome to our viewers around the world, i'm max foster in london. this is cnn "newsroom." the daily allegations sexual
harassment affecting both political parties in the united states. the latest involve prominent members of the media. cbs has suspended charlie rose after eight women accuse him of sexual advances and groebing. a top "new york times" reporter who covers the trump administration is being suspended. they said three women and the article's author accused glen thrush of one wanted kissing and groebing. thrush apologize today any women who felt uncomfortable in his presence. and republican senate candidate roy moore continues to deny sex abuse allegations from a number of women. one of his accusers spoke out on monday describing her encounter with him when she was just 14 years old. though many republican leaders have been outspoken in their rejection of moore's candidacy.
president trump has been notably silent. >> president trump has weighed in on a number of topics over the past 48 hours we talked about the basketball players from ucla who he helped to free after being caught shoplifting in china. he weighed in on north korea. and adding north korea back of the list of state sponsored terror. and talked about jeff flake and his comments where he talked about how if the republican party becomes a party of roy moore and president trump the party is toast. but the president is still not talking about roy moore, the alabama senate candidate accused of indiscretions with underage girls. the white house repeatedly turning down opportunities to weigh in. this is what sarah huckabee-sanders said yesterday in the press briefings. >> the president wants people both in the house and senate
that support his agenda. but as i said and as the hatch act prohibits me from going any further, we certainly think this is something that the people of alabama should decide. i'm not going to be able to weigh in anything further beyond those comments. >> reporter: despite the fact that sanders said they're going to leave it up to the voters of alabama who to support. there have been mixed messages by members of the administration. in the same briefing, she said the president would rather see people in the senate who support his agenda. and kellyanne conway said on fox people in alabama should not support doug jones, the democrat and said they'd like to see someone who will vote with the president. so even though the white house is remaining coy, it seems they are sending a mixed message to the voters in alabama as on to who they would like to see be elected on december 12th. >> it's been a week of silence
on roy moore for president trump. but the white house counselor kellyanne conway is doing some talking on his bhaf. >> doug jones in a.labama don't be fooled he's weak on crimes, borders strong on raising taxes. >> so vote roy moore. >> it's why he's not saying anything and the media are trying to boost him. >> so vote roy more? >> i'm telling you, we want the votes in the senate to get this tax bill through. >> that was conway's not so subtle endorsement on roy moore on monday. but last thursday she had a different take. >> the principle is that there's no senate seat that's worth more than a child. >> leslie moore joins me now. how do you reconcile those two conways? >> it's a funny move, especially
since the allegations are not going away. since the polling data has shifted, right? he looks like he's a percentage point behind -- this is a candidate who's been controversial for a long time. he was not polling very strong even before the allegations came out by the washington post. so it looks like, you know, the white house is just trying to manage this. doesn't want to lose the seat but at what cost? of course, it's too late to put another candidate in. there could be a write in campaign. donald trump didn't support roy moore in the primaries, he supported the other candidate. so this is a very difficult response, and not one that plays well to the white house. >> there's so many different stories swirling around aren't there? isn't it unfair to suggest the allegations are part of the white house decision-making process here? they're looking at it as pure politics. they desperately need that seat? >> well, they need that seat but
it plays very badly. remember that mitch mcconnell has walked away from this candidate, he doesn't have support amongst the establishment republican party at the national level. he does have the support of the republican party in alabama. so i think really this is going to be a decision that comes out in the elections. it's a political decision made by the people in alabama. but again, this was a candidate who was only, even before these allegations he was only 6 percentage points ahead in a state that is very strongly republican. trump won the state by 28 percentage points and roy moore has been very well supported by his base, by the evangelicals who probably aren't shifting on these th because they have questions about the credibility of this. he was asked, when he was chief justice of the alabama state supreme court to remove the statute of the ten commandments, he couldn't do it, he refused to
stop enforcing the ban on same sex marriage. so he's controversial far beyond what's happening now. and this is playing right against -- >> what would be an alternative strategy for the white house? could they have not encouraged the party to replace roy moore as a candidate? why didn't they go down that route? what are the other alternatives available. >> it's too late. there's a possibility of a written in campaign, but if they remain silent. the question is what happens? it looks like the seat right now will go to the democratic candidate and, of course, that's not what the white house wants as we've just heard. they're desperate to have the tax proposal go forward and they feel like they need that seat. but weighing in in the way we've just seen is problematic and risks loosing them creditabilit and moving the tide as it comes up to the midterms. >> there's been allegations, the
famous k"access hollywood" tape about donald trump's treatment of women as well. but do you think he should have been more forthright on the roy moore issue, just to assert his own respect for women, as it were? >> we are in the middle of a tidal wave of allegations coming out against a number of people of the me too campaign, which isn't targeted necessarily against individuals, but this is the way that -- this is the sort of move, right, to recognize and give legitimacy to the fact you can't do these sorts of things and so to have a person in the white house who's not getting behind that, it's unwise morally, politically, and there's got to be a moment where there's a decision made to recognize the direction of morality and politics in the united states right now. >> leslie, thank you for joining us. as we mentioned earlier, long
time journalist charlie rose is facing allegations, he released a statement in part saying it's important these women know i hear them and i'm embarrassed. i behaved insensitively at times, and i take responsibility for that. though i do not believe they're all accurate. amy briton broke the story. >> the allegations are troubling and the reporting took weeks of speaking with women who worked with rose from the span of the 1990s until recently. the troubling thing about the allegations was there were so many similarities in the stories they told. these were women who did not know one another and worked for rose at different points in their life. there were certain patterns of behavior that were alarming concerning the groping, nudity, touching them, and late night
phone calls, there was clear consistency in how he would carry out the interactions. look at the show and look at the power he has. he is one of the most respected journalists and tv hosts in the station. it's a small staff, roughly 18 individuals, no hr department. the only one to report a complaint would be his executive producer, who had been with him since 1991. multiple women felt like they could not report this behavior. we did speak to one woman who did report it and she was fired soon after reporting it. >> briton says "the washington post" sent rose a detailed list from their story. he did not want to challenge it line by line. a second woman is accusing al franken of groping her.
she posted the picture on facebook at the time, commenting the senator was a creeper who molested her. franken tells cnn he doesn't remember taking the photo, but he feels badly she felt disrespected. this came on the heels of accusations that he groped and kissed her two years before he ran for office. >> now, special counsel roy moore's investigation moving into president trump's inner circle now. how many white house officials are being questioned. plus the leaderships of syria and russia meet against the future of syria and say the fight there is winding down. my name is jeff sheldon,
and i'm the founder of ugmonk. before shipstation it was crazy. it's great when you see a hundred orders come in, a hundred orders come in, but then you realize i've got a hundred orders i have to ship out. shipstation streamlined that wh the order data, the weights of , everything is seamlessly put into shipstation, so when we print the shipping ll everything's pretty much done. it's so much easier so now, we're ready, bring on t. shipstation. the number one ch of online sellers. go to shipstation.com/tv and get two months free. the russian president, vladimir putin, plans to discuss future with u.s. president donald trump on tuesday. mr. putin met earlier with the syrian president. the russian president praised him for his work fighting isis and stressed the need for peaceful political solution for the crisis in syria. are we talking about a post
civil war settlement? the terms of that? >> reporter: i think that's certainly what vladimir putin, the russian president, wants to put across. he had this unexpected or unscheduled meeting in southern russian. it's only the second time the two figures have met as far as we know face to face since october 2015 just a few weeks after russia embarked on its military intervention in syria, which involved large scale air strikes and turned the tide of the conflict in syria in bah shar's favor. one of the main things they discussed was as a result of that the conflict in syria had changed, this is according to a readout from the kremlin. from military operations to a political solution. so it's in that context that
vladimir putin met -- it was under a shroud of sek resi as well. this meeting took place but nobody heard about it. it was this morning they announced the meeting took place. by this time bah shar is back in his palace in damascus. it comes just a few days ahead of a summit that's being held in russia later this week between the leaders of russia, i iran and turkey. >> so president putin is going to take this plan to president donald trump, what do you think he'll make of it and what interventions do you think he'll want to make? >> reporter: that's right. that's one of the other issues that came out in this kremlin statement about this meeting that vladimir putin is now going to be calling other world leaders. they mentioned the amere of qatar and a phone call to donald
trump as well, the american president, to discuss with him the syrian political situation, a resolution to the conflict. it's one of the areas where vladimir putin and donald trump have spoken about in the past. they've come to some agreement about, you know, for instance the introduction of deescalation zones, as they're called. a russian attempt to impose peace on iryas of syria. that disspite the fact, russia and united states are on opposite sides of the confrontation. but it seems that the russians at the moment are getting their way, max. >> thank you, matthew. we'll come back to you when we get the results of the call. meanwhile, the russian investigation is getting closer to president trump's inner
circle. but they're planning on interviewing more officials. more details from our justice correspondent. >> reporter: ind kagtss that new revelations could soon e mench from the special counsel's probe. investigators are asking witnesses about foreign contacts and meetings that haven't been made public. investigators are focussed on fired national security adviser michael flynn and his contacts according to the post. flynn is under scrutiny for the undisclosed lobbying he did on bhaft turki on behalf of the the turkish government and the possibility that flynn was part of a plan to pull a turkish cleric out of the u.s. they'll be interviewing key white house staff ers in the coming weeks including hope hicks, who has been a crucial part of the inner circle since
the president's campaign began in 2015. and white house counsel, don mcgahn. meanwhile the british publicist who arranged the july 2016 meeting is breaking his silence. he tells the sunday times of london that he accepted the invitation for robert mueller's interview. saying it's time for me to explain what happened and dismissing any suggestion he was part of a russian plot to influence an election. i thought it was the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. that doesn't mean there wasn't any interference or donald trump campaign collusion in other ways, i'm not sure. i wasn't part of it. no date has been set for an interview with gold stone and the team. but he didn't mean to say the russians supported donald trump when he wrote that e-mail. instead he says he was speaking generally about the add ration
he had seen for donald trump when he was in moscow and he say it is misinterpretation was likely the result of a rushed e-mail. >> the trump administration labels north korea a state sponsor of terrorism, backing president trump's rhetoric against the north korean regime. >> coming up south korea and japan sport the decision to put north korea back on the list of state sponsored terrorism. we are monitoring reaction out of pyongyang join us ahead live on "newsroom." cannot live without it.
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welcome to our view ers around the world and in the united states. i'm max foster. now for quick headlines. russian president and syria's president say the fighting is coming to an end. the priority now is to move to a peaceful political solution. a cnn report found hurricane maria may have killed many more people in puerto rico that people thought. the original toll is 55 but cnn learned from funeral homes that 500 people died. government officials say they will investigate. time may be running out for 44 argentine crew members missing in a submarine. they say underwater noises have been detected recently and they're not from the missing crew. before disappearing, the captain was ordered to return because of a failure in the battery system
the navy heard from the submarine one last time after that. now we have new video and comments from north korea a day after the u.s. put the north back on the list of state sponsors of terrorism. state run media showed kim jong-un at a truck factory out thing his country's spirit of self-reliance. that may be tested with the u.s. about to announce more sanctions on north korea. >> the united states is designating north korea as a state sponsor of terrorists. it should have happened a long time ago. it should have happened years ago. >> north korea's state run paper ran a story calling mr. trump a lunatic. saying he should be punished for crimes. cnn's jeff zelleny looks at the implications of those moves. >> president trump making a
major designation against north korea in the white house. adding them back to state sponsor of terrorism. now this is something that is reversing course from a decision that george w. bush made in 2008 in the final months of his administration when he took them off the list as part of a nuclear deal that did not go through. president trump making the declaration, he said it is part of an effort to continue to squeeze the north korean regime. there is a question what does this mean? is it more symbolism or stance? we know the treasury department will be announcing new sanctions on tuesday. it will be economically squeezing the north korean regime. the question is what does it mean beyond that. rex tillerson acknowledged it was steeped in symbolism, but he also said it was a serious matter using diplomatic efforts to try to bring north korea to the negotiating table and squeeze them economically.
the question what does this mean going forward? it does mean the administration keeping the diplomacy door open. that's what this move is, not a military operation. jeff zelleny cnn, the white house. some blunt talk about tensions with the north from a general in charge of the nuclear arsenal. barbara starr has more on that. >> reporter: president trump designating north korea a state sponsor of terrorism also has a military objective. >> the north korean regime must be lawful, it must end its unlawful nuclear ballistic missile development. >> reporter: the president's rhetoric about nuclear weapons. >> they will be met with fire and furry like the world has never seen. >> causing deep worry he might suddenly order a nuclear weapons launch. >> we are concerned that the president of the united states is so unstable, is so volatile
as a decision-making process that is so quick that he might order a nuclear weapon strike that is out of step with u.s. national security interests. >> general john hyten, the four star in charge of nuclear weapons, said if he got an illegal order from president trump to launch nuclear weapons, he would not follow it. >> i provide advice to the president. he'll tell me what to do, and if it's illegal question what's going to happen. i'm going to say that's illegal. he's going to say, what would be legal. we'll come up with options with a mix to come up with what the situation is. >> reporter: the weapon must be proportional to the threat, especially since nuclear weapons can kill tens of thousands of people. >> i think the general's remarks were forceful, plain spoken and
blunt and frankly also very refreshing. it's important for the american public to understand the types of safeguards, the types of security measures we put around our nuclear arsenal and our nuclear strike capabilities. >> reporter: commanders continue to say the obligation is on them to not obey an illegal order. >> it might surprise you if i told you i have been in situations in combat where we have had to take orders that were given to us and go back to our commanders and said, the lawyers said this might not be legal to do these things. >> reporter: all of this taking on considerable urgency bibecause the u.s. intelligence committee and the south koreans believe in 2018 the north koreans may have a working long-range missile with a war head on top that could potentially strike the u.s. barbara starr cnn, the pentagon.
a lot to cover. let's bring in anna corrine and robert science. >> anna, welcome news in asia to the latest news by the white house? >> certainly here in south korea and japan, both countries believe this is a step towards denuclearizing the korean peninsula, this will, in fact, place more pressure on north korea to halt its nuclear weapons program and come back to the negotiating table. we heard from china a short time ago, from the foreign ministry spokesperson who said this is a complex and sensitive situation and called on all parties to ease tensions and return to the negotiating table. i think if you read between the lines it basically implies this announcement by donald trump is extremely unhelpful to what china is trying to achieve.
of course, we know max that china is sending a special envoy over the weekend to discuss its concerns over north korea's nuclear program. so it really, i guess, is a problem for china because the world is looking to china to really step in here and get north korea to come to its senses. but any progress, max, that was made over the weekend, you would assume has now been eroded. as far as north korea goes, you mentioned there was that opinion piece in a state newspaper in which it said trump should be sternly punished for hideous crimes against north korea. we don't think this is in response to trump's announcement the reason being it's more likely it could come from state media kcna so that is the thinking here that we are yet to properly hear from north korea, get a proper reaction, because
most analysts feel that there will be quite harsh rhetoric, threats, and then obviously more threats of further tests, max. so professor kelly, the idea that china would send an envoy to north korea was quite a deal after president trump visited china. do you think there is a concern that trump could be derailing chinese efforts with north korean negotiations, if they're working tworowards that. >> if the envoy is that. i think there's hope that president trump had pressured president xi to some change. there are some hints that china has been changing its position on north korea a little bit more in the last six months in our direction. but i think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest it's directly because of donald trump. if i had to guess probably
because of what north koreans are afraid of what the president is saying on twitter, they'd like to hear what the cha neez think of president trump as a person, is he stable? does he mean what he says? the pressure that we need is economic. it's not at the leadership level. it's at the economic level. >> we talk about that stability of donald trump, anna, and there's concern in the united states as well that he has the power to flick the nuclear switch. how much fear is there in asia that he's not the right person to be in charge of that arsenal? >> well, certainly, i think, when the rhetoric is read hard as we have seen certainly earlier in the year. there were grave concerns here in south korea that what was coming out of the mouth of the u.s. commander in chief is certainly not what they need. they are used to the rhetoric
out of north korea. but certainly not out of the mouth of the u.s. president. so, of course, there are concerns. donald trump, however, had a very successful trip to asia. not too many missteps. you'd have to say after that trip, he's garnered quite a bit of support, certainly here in south korea he was welcomed with open arms, certainly by all the leaders of asia. and certainly president moon, who he had quite a strained relationship, they seemed to patch things up while he was here in seoul. but look, at this stage, i think people are confident that this is perhaps the right way to deal with north korea. as long as it remains somewhat on an even keel. as long as it's diplomatic and economic pressure and not the talk where it drags the korean
peninsula to the brink of war, max. >> professor kelly this is all predicated on the idea that north korea could one day enter negotiations but that seems unlikely at this point. if you look at countries like libya where they negotiated and got rid of their arsenals and it hasn't worked out for them. so he's thinking probably i'm going to keep these no matter what and that doesn't fit into the strategy washington and beijing are looking at. >> they said to us, if kada fi had nuclear weapons he'd be ali alive. you can say that about saddam hue sane and others. i think part of the reason they want it is to defend against american-led regime change. the bush administration talked about we don't negotiate with north korea, we eliminate it. that scared them and they
thought we need a nuclear weapon. i think they have negotiated with us in bad faith for several decades. there were many efforts the north koreans have fore gone to come to the table and when they made concessions they've been pseudoconcessions. things that don't cost north korea much at all. they're not a genuine concession on behalf of the north. we're still looking for north korea to give us something to make it feel like it's worthwhile to come back to the ta table. we need something from north korea, something substantial. something. and the north koreans haven't done it. they seem hell bent on developing these weapons. because the north koreans don't seem to be coming around. robert kelly, anna corrine, thank you for joining us. talks in germany collapsing. that's putting pressure on angela merkel. the latest ahead when "newsroom"
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german chancellor, angela merkel is facing the political challenge of her career. she's been a dominant european figure for 12 years, while she's been able to work with russian president vladimir putin, her relationship with president trump has been strained at times and negotiations to form a three-waco ligs now have fallen apart when the free democratic party walked out. she's facing a big decision h e here, isn't she? >> this is an unprecedented situation for germany. chancellor merkel has ruled out leading a minority government. she said she would rather see new elections than try to lead a minority government. so there are basically two options now, the first one is
what the president said yesterday, which is everybody has got to knuckle down and try to get back to the negotiating table. that's why we'll see the president meeting with the party leaders who failed in those governing talks, specifically the free democrats and the greens today. tomorrow he will be meeting with the social democrats in the opposition. but it's all sort of another attempt to give this governor -- trying to get these talks going with this possibility of a governing coalition. if that fails, however, we're looking at the likelihood of elections last year after what was a bruising election season this year, two months ago. the most recent polls show about 51% of respondents in a media poll, for example, want to the see new elections. so it's possible the public is saying listen if you can't get your act together with this, let's do the elections over again. >> has angela merkel's position
strengthened in any way since the last elections or dealt with any of the tensions that erupted there, suggesting she might get a stronger mandate this time? >> this is probably the weakest we've seen her in years. this is unusual for her. she's known for being stable and pragmatic. so it does not look good for her. there's concern this could benefit far right parties like the afd. >> interesting. thank you very much indeed. now zimbabwe the country there appears to be on the verge of ending the rain of its 93-year-old president robert mugabe. his own party plans to introduce an impeachment motion. his former vice president says he'll return to zimbabwe only
when he's satisfied of his personal security. david mckenzie joins us now live from harare. take us through impeachment here and what it says about how long mugabe will stay in office. >> reporter: they're trying to say they can rapidly t push through this impeachment procedure, trying to throw out the president in his own party. some lawyers i've spoken to seem to suggest that could take longer than they hope. but you have the immense pressure on robert mugabe to step aside. pressure he appears to be resisting. this morning we heard from emmerson mnangagwa, the vice president that he sacked, speaking in a statement from exile, the vice president has, in fact, been missing since this all unfolded, since he was fired and then this apparent coup took place. he says he won't come back to
the country and discuss issues with president mugabe because he is not sure of his safety. he said that there were attempts to asis nate him before he fled the country. he's also calling for president mugabe to step down. this came after a rare press conference here in harare, from the military, right inside the headquarters of the military where they describe that this was all part of a military operation. >> we remain seized with the operation code named operation restore legacy. we are confident to take our beloved country out of its present circumstances. >> reporter: the military is still very much on the streets here. it's sometimes easy to think of this as some kind of smooth transition or political power play. it might be. but still the military is in charge here.
and it is still, to me, looks like a coup, but perhaps just a coup in slow motion. max. >> absolutely. david. you might be there a while. thank you for joining us from harare. optics aren't looking good for the trump administration, the justice department taking action against at&t and time warner. plus the father of one of the basketball players arrested for shoplifting in china, refuses to apologize. his heated exchange on cnn next. >> what do you mean take on donald trump? what are redoing for each other. >> i know what he did for you. instead of shay saying thank you, you took a shot at him. ayiu
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lavar ball's son and two teammates are back in the u.s. and thanked the president for their releasing. lavar ball failed to say thank you. t donald trump said he should have left them in jail. but lavar ball isn't changing his tune. he spoke with chris cue mow. >> why would i be in war with the most powerful man in the world? >> that's my question. why would you take on donald trump after he helped your kid. >> i don't know. what do you mean take on donald trump? take on him for what? >> that's good -- >> what are we doing for each other? >> i know what he did for you. >> what did he do for me sfl he helped get your son out of china where he could have been in jail for a long time. >> why was he going to be in jail for a long time. >> because he stole something
according to the chinese authorities. carries a minimum of three years. >> he has so much character in 18 years he's allowed to have a pass for that. >> that's your son. >> one bad decision at a time. >> and he said thank you to the president of the united states. something his father didn't want to do. what kind of example does that give your son? >> is that to my son? i'll tell you what type of example it is. you know where my boy is at right now because of me. because i spent all that time and love for him. don't come in one time and think you did something for my son. >> it's a big one time if he's a jail in china. >> is he in jail? is he in jail? shs he in jail. >> not anymore. >> i taught him how to be what he is, a respectful youngman.
the justice department is suing to block the merger between at&t and time warner. president trump vowed to block it during his campaign. >> at&t is buying time warner, thus cnn. a deal we will not approve in my administration because it's too much concentration of power in the hands of too few. >> the president has criticized cnn and other news networks and now his words are weighing on the companies involved. >> there's been a lot of reporting and speculation whether this is all about cnn. and frankly, i don't know. but nobody should be surprised that the question keeps coming up. because we've witnessed such an abrupt change in the application of antitrust law here. >> brian stelter has more now on the proposed merger and the roadblocks. >> the stage is now set for a
blockbuster legal battle. this lawsuit by the justice department against at&t and time warner was filed on monday evening, after weeks of negotiations between the companies and the federal government. normally they're seen as promerger, probusiness, but in this case we're seeing a different response from the trump administration to this proposed mega merger. according to the lawsuit filed by the justice department, the government believes this entire deal would be bad for consumers, anticompetitive and a violation of antitrust law. quote, at&t would use control of time warner's programming as a weapon. it also alleges that the deal would result in fewer offerings and higher bills for families. now at&t disagrees. at a press conference on monday,
the company's ceo says he does not understand where the government is coming from. the company says this position is inexplicable and against decades of precedence. that is why at&t and time warner, which is cnn's parent company, think something fishy is going on, maybe it's a political plot. president trump said he opposed this deal when he was on the campaign deal in october of 2016. ever since then he hasn't commented directly on the tale but he has criticized cnn in tweets and public appearances. that's why there's suspicions he's been meddling in the deal encouraging the justice department to block it. now doj officials have denied that. but at&t officials want to pursue that possibility. now, of course, in court. this case will go before a judge unless the two sides can come up with some kind of settlement.
and this process could take several months. in the meantime the at&t and time warner deal is on hold and other deals in the media industry are also on pause as rival companies look around and say we're not sure what the government is thinking. weir not sure what the new rules of the road will be. >> "early start" next for viewers in the u.s. for our international viewers i'll be back with more after this short break. do stay with us. building a website in under an hour is easy with gocentral... ...from godaddy! in fact, 68% of people who have built their... ...website using gocentral, did it in under an hour, and you can too. build a better website - in under an hour.
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♪ patients who came to the u.s. after the deadly earth in 2010 have 19 months to leave the united states. the administration is ending protected status, despite concerns haiti can't handle an influx of tens of thousands of people. they may not want roy moore, but they need him in the senate. how does that square with leading republicans who have promised to expel moore if he wins? and a day of epic proportions at the white house -- two turkeys, one pardon. the president gets to wield his presidential power, controversy-free. good morning. welcome to "early start." i'm christine romans. >> i'm dave briggs. also a fascinating interview between don lemon and lavar ball -- >> oh,