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tv   Wolf  CNN  November 28, 2017 10:00am-11:00am PST

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>> 1:00 p.m. here in washington. from wherever you are watching, thanks for joining us. >> we begin with breaking news on two fronts. first, just 10 days before the deadline to avoid a government shut down here in washington and leaders in washington can't get in the same room, much less on the same page. president trump arriving on capitol hill moments ago. he is there to push the senate tax bill as his fate hangs in the balance. he was scheduled to meet with republican and democratic leaders at the white house, but the senate minority leader,
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shu chuck schumer and nancy pelosi pulled out after the president tweeted meeting with chuck and nancy about keeping government open and working. problem is they want illegal immigrants flooding in unchecked, are weak on crime and want to raise taxes. i don't see a deal. lots to discuss, but the white house and the republicans are responding. what do they say? >> the white house referring to this as pettiness. readers saying there is going to be a meeting and democrats need to be here. this is supposed to be a crucial meeting and there are no shortage of complicated issues that need to be wrapped up in the next couple of weeks. i want to read you the joint statement from paul ryan and senate majority leader mitch mcconnell deciding to pull out of the meeting. they said we have important work to do and democratic leaders
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found new excuses not to meet to discuss these issues. democrats are putting government resources for the men and women on the battlefield at great risk. there is a meeting at the white house and if democrats want to reach an agreement, they will be there. they will not be there. the senate minority leader attacking president trump and that tweet and the negotiation in general. when you pull back, who everybody wants to negotiate with. democratic leaders have made it clear and they want to negotiate one to one with republican leaders and don't want the administration involve and don't trust the administration and they wanted it to be a congressional negotiation. the rub here on that is this. the republican leaders need the president's sign off to move forward on the issues. whether it's a spending bill or a supplemental package or a fix on the daca issue.
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president trump is going to have to sign off on something for republicans to get in line and move something forward. republican leaders know that and the white house knows that. that's where the difficulty lies right now. democrats are making it clear and feel like they have leverage and they are starting to push on that right now. the big question is given how tight the deadlines are and how complicated the issues are, they appear to be further apart and they are trying to negotiate the issues. the reality, the leaders were going to have to hammer out the final details. as of this moment, they are not even leading. >> the leaders scheduled a couple hours before to go to the white house and meet with the president of the united states. after his tweet, they canceled that meeting and it is an extraordinary moment. on the tax bill, at least 10
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republican senators felt they had serious concerns about the bill and it only takes one republican no vote to keep it from moving forward. it looks like ron johnson of wisconsin is the senator to watch in the coming hours. explain why his vote could prove to be so important. >> no question about it. the republicans hold a one-seat advantage. a 12 to 11 majority of one senator voting against, it would stall it out for the moment. senator ron johnson made clear he has specific demands and they haven't been met by leadership. here's his issue. it's about what is called pass through. business entities like partnerships and llcs that pass through and pay individual rates. in both the house and the senate, there is a significant cut in place to those rates, trying to make it a lot easier for the entities to pay taxes. the issue is they want that ut expanded to be more generous.
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the problem is that costs money. significant amounts of money. more than $100 billion. senate republicans don't have that space to work with. it runs head long into the leaders. the deficit hawks adding more money to what costs and could risk alienating them. senator james langeford and they don't want this plan to add to the deficit in the long-term. what you have is gop leaders trying to figure out both sides. they need to do it in a short clip. president trump meeting with republicans behind closed doors. there is hope that maybe he can get senator johnson over the finish line and as it stands, the mark up is scheduled for 2:30 p.m. senator johnson was still a no. republicans planning to move forward. something will have to give. we toll have figure out what it is. >> if they are not guaranteed a
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win, will there still be a vote? >> it's an open question. last night the frustrations were so stark, they were willing to move forward. saying look, we will call your bluff and we want to move forward. if you look at the deadlines they look at, they don't have a lot of time to extend this effort out. as of now, the mark up is scheduled and as of now, the vote is still scheduled. at this moment, there will be a clash here in a couple of hours. >> we will see what happens. thanks very much from capitol hill. we have the chief analyst with us and congressional reporter with us as well. what do you make of the decision from the leaders in the house and senate to pull out of a scheduled meeting at the white house with the president of the
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united states to discuss avoiding a government shut down? >> i don't know if anyone refused to in the board room with donald trump before. this really may be a first. i think it is evidence of frustration with him and their reaction to the tweet this morning which n which he said i don't want a deal. he said i don't see a deal. they want to raise your taxes and they just want to let illegal immigrants in unchecked. i think there was a sense as chuck schumer outlined of what's the point of dealing with this guy? we have to deal with the leadership in the house and the senate. i think it's really just one way to get under his skin, to tell him they don't -- he doesn't run them. and that they will neat hmeet h
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somewhere along the line. they don't have to do it. whether this is a good idea is another question. they can look as childish as he is. right now they are saying go meet with your republicans and when you need us, come to us. >> it's very interesting. in a joint statement, senator schumer and congresswoman pelosi said this and i will put it up. given that the president doesn't see a deal between democrats and the white house, we believe the best path forward is to continue negotiating with our republican counterparts and congress instead. we don't have time to waste in the issues. how difficult is this to avoid a government shut down over the next couple of weeks? >> it doesn't help it. we are running out of time. december 8th will be here before you know it. democrats say they will withhold their votes for a spending deal to keep the government open
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unless they address daca which is the key issue. republicans do not want to do a daca deal. they know democrats have the upper hand and they are worried they have to agree to something the base will balk at and come after leadership if they do. i think it's interesting and i know conservatives are happy that this meeting didn't happen. they are worried that president trump would give democrats what they want on daca. just a couple of weeks ago, the president had this tentative outline that he agreed to with pelosi and schumer where he said we will do a daca deal and i don't need the wall to be part of it. they had to call him to walk it back. i know people have been calling the white house saying president trump, do not do this. do not cave to the democrats on this issue. now they are not going to be in the room together. there is no fear with
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conservatives and today he will cave on daca. >> it is extraordinary. when you see the president on capitol hill meeting with senate republicans and pushing the republican tax plan. he has been working the phones and he also has been a distraction with some of his disparaging comments. pocohontas honoring war heroes. what do you make of his role in the push for tax reform? >> he wasn't get out of his own way. it occurred with health care and now with tax reform. he can't stay focussed on one issue at a time. he did the pocohontas thing this morning and insulted the democrats this morning. can't seem to get out of his own way. i caulked to one republican who said honestly the president is more engaged on the tax issue than he was on the health care issue because it's an issue that he understands.
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he also understands whom it's going to benefit. if you look at the analysis by the congressional budget office, we have been talking about these pass throughs that senator johnson wants changed. the money from that flows to the top 1% of people in this country. some of them are small business owners and some of them are lawyers and other professionals. every time they make a change in this tax bill, it's playing whack a mole. the president i'm told kind of understands that, but some of these changes would clearly benefit him and his family. >> fair point. the congressional budget office said that poorer americans would lose billions in federal benefits under the senate republican tax bill and middle class americans eventually would pay more since most of the
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individual tax cuts expire after 2025. how does it square with president trump's promises and his message during the campaign? >> it shows that they are going to be losing the messaging war on this. republicans have been trying to paint this bill as a tax cut mostly aimed at the middle class. there are two tweaks going on to the bill that make it harder to make the sell. the first one is giving small businesses bigger tax cuts that is something ron johnson of wisconsin and steve gains of montana are also pushing for. the problem with doing that is the top 1% comprise something like 80% of the small businesses. by giving them a bigger tax cut, you are giving more money to the top 1% that under cuts the middle class argument that republicans are trying to make. >> there is a lot of debate going on now. thanks very much. let's take a closer look at the
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tax plan and what it means to you. joining us now, the economics reporter for the "new york time times". who benefits most from the plan and who will it hurt most? >> the senate like the house plan does mostly benefit to the people who own large corporations or as we were just hearing from the panel, it's now getting expanded the benefits from people who own small businesses or other pass through entities. as a share of the plan, the plan favors the rich more. there are benefits and benefits for a lot of middle class families, but because they have a lower income, that's less of a share than to the rich. >> some provisions to the bill will expire after a few years after passage. for instance, the individual tax rate cuts by 2026. why not make them permanent like the corporate tax rate cuts that go from 35% to 20%.
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those are permanent. the individual tax rates are for a decade, if that. >> republicans would love to make them permanent and believe they will be made permanent by the future congress, but they are temporary to comply with the arcane senate budget rules that republicans are using to pass or attempt to pass the tax bill entirely along party lines. by using the budget reconciliation process, they are able to bypass a democratic filibuster and can't increase the deficit after a decade. they have to sunset those provisions, it's called, in order to keep from losing money down the line in a way that would make the bill not qualify for the budget reconciliation rules. >> why not sunset the corporate tax rates for 10 years and see if they will be extended, but keep the individual tax cuts permanent? >> the idea is born from the way conservatives see the economy and tax policy.
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you need to give investment certainty for companies that that will drive economic growth. the plan for republicans comes back to the flooms cutting the rates, particularly corporate tax rates will unleash stronger growth and you get smaller growth effects in most economic models if they are temporary. companies can't plan and that uncertainty holds back the investment decisions. they are making a bet on how their bet on economic growth happens. >> he wanted the tax rate to go from 35% to 15% and he said it won't go higher than that. thanks for the analysis. also today, there is new developments in the russia investigation. the president's son in law may be compelled to give more testimony over a spat between senate investigators. we have new information on that. former president obama
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announcing the international tour during which he will hold international meetings. how will the current president react? senator john mccain blasting president trump for calling a senator pocohontas at an event honoring native american heroes. why the white house said it wasn't a racial slur. together, great things come in twos. like t-mobile and netflix. right now when you get an unlimited family plan, netflix is included. ho ho ho! t-mobile covers your netflix subscription... best christmas gift ever! you can binge watch all year long. now you're thinking christmas! and now when you buy any of this season's hot new samsung galaxy phones, you get a second one free to gift. that's one samsung for you. and one to give. t-mobile. holiday twogether. ♪ but it might be hard to handle ♪ ♪ like the flame that burns the candle ♪ ♪ the candle feeds the flame ♪ topped steak & twisted potatoes at applebee's.
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us now from capitol hill. let me ask you about this decision by chuck schumer and nancy pelosi in congress. they were scheduled to meet with the president and the republican leadership over at the white house to discuss ways to prevent a government shut down. the president tweeted this meeting with chuck and nancy about keeping government open and the problem is they want illegal immigrants flooding in unchecked and are weak on crime and want to raise taxes. i don't see a deal. as a result they said it's a waste of time to go over there. they are not going. your reaction? >> they made the right decision. to work together, you have to have sincerity on behalf of both parties. we don't have that here. the president wants to politicize his product rather than having dialogue. i think the leadership was ride to send that when you are reed to have authentic dialogue.
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>> when are a sitting of the president of the united states invites the opposition over for a meeting at the white house and they said they are not going. i was the white house correspond r respondent during the height of impeachment and the speaker over at the white house, newt gingrich always went and the leadership always went. it's extraordinary and give me your assessment. >> in that case, you didn't have the president insuling them before they were to arrive at the white house. when there was always an opportunity to have a real dialogue about how we can forge a path that makes sense, that is good. if the president is unprepared to do that and wants to turn it into a political show, we don't want to play that game. >> isn't it critically important to be a dialogue to avert a government shut down in early december when spending runs out? you need cooperation to achieve
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that. even if the president does snub and insult the democratic leadership, shouldn't they rise above that and say we have bigger issues to deal with. we have to deal with the leadership and the country cannot afford a government shut down. >> we can't. if they are determined to shut down the government, this is a good way to do it. when the president is ready for that, the leadership is ready to engage. we have been sending a message time and time again. you want to have a real dialogue and close loopholes so that we don't drive up the deficit. let's have that conversation. you want a real dialogue about how to make the economy work better, let's have that conversation. hopefully the president will be ready for that and we have been ready and making that invitation all along. >> you are on the budget committee and let's talk about the tax bill under consideration and could be a vote later this
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afternoon. the congressional budget office said the tax bill would increase the federal deficit by 1$1.4 trillion over 10 years and said americans earning less than $30,000 a year will be hurt right away mostly with a loss of the individual mandate for health care insurance. the supporters are pushing back on that. what is your take? how significant is that impasse and do you think the budget committee will pass the senate bill? >> the budget committee will bring together the health care provisions that are being put forward. health care that would wipe out health care for 13 million people and drive up premiums for everyone else. they are trying to nearnlg in the budget committee. it will be a party line vote, but the bigger deal --
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>> let me interrupt. senator ron johnson of wisconsin is the one who everyone is watching right now. as of right now, he said he will vote against it. there are 12 republicans and 11 democrats on the committee. if he votes against it, what happens then? is it dead? >> no, nothing dies here in this senate or house. they get reworked and rise again. we put a stake through the heart of it and millions of people from being able to have health care. they want to rip it away and don't care that it hurts so many working families. they are trying to put it back into the tax bill. >> let me get to foreign affairs. you are on the committee in this senate. i want to ask you about the comments out of south korea where a top official said north korea's program is moving much more quickly than anticipated.
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i thought it was significant that hawaii for the first time since world war ii reactivated the sirens in case of some sort of attack. what's your reaction when you hear these very worry some developments? >> we should be concerned about north korea's program. the question is how do we freeze it, stop it and have a dialogue that leads to denuclearization? we can do it through a military 38 because they have and they have a nuclear threat even if they don't have ballistic missiles.
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this is bringing the community together to apply the high level of pressure to north korea necessary to freeze their program and the warhead program and bring them to the table to denuclearize the peninsula. that's what we have to do. >> thanks for joining us. >> you are welcome. good to be with you. >> all eyes on capitol hill and we are about to see the president as democrats cancel their own meeting with the president. will they show up last minute or is it a done deal. stand by. plus as the spotlight intensifies on fired national security adviser michael flynn, jared kushner may be compelled back to capitol hill to testify. you will hear whether his lawyers the file. alright, off you go. o. . w. i. l. l . f. i. t. . gh. t.
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>> in the russia investigation, it could bring the president's son in law and senior adviser jared kushner back for more questioning. the senior correspondent has new information. what is happening and what are you learning? >> they asked jared kushnerar i a range of information including the contacts he had with the russians. they have not received sufficient answers from him and one of the things they want is a transcription of an interview that jared kushner did earlier this year with the senate intelligence committee and the house. they wanted to see if those questions that were answered in that response that they have as
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part of their own committee investigation. he said he will not provide that sbript over to the senate judiciary committee. what does this mean? it means that jared could be back on capitol hill having to answer more questions before another committee that is investigating russia meddling and dianne feinstein told me a few moments ago that if they don't get the transcript from the senate intelligence committee, we will have to do our own interview with jared kushner as he faces a lot of questions about the contacts. and earlier i talked to mark warner and the ranking democrat who said even though he came before the staff, there is a lot
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more questions that they want to pose. the chairman also said that they do want to bring donald trump in necessary an interview and there are no dates on that. under skrut me in from several of these committees. they don't know if they got all the answers quite yet. >> thanks very much. closely watching the russia investigation. let's discuss this a little bit more. thanks for joining us. does this late infighting between the senate committees under cut the credibility of the congressional investigations into are ushia's involvement last year during the presidential campaign?
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>> they have always been running separate investigations and they have been possessive of this at various points in time. you hear the members say they are doing their thing and we are doing ours and vice-versa. they wanted to keep their other pace like that. he is not a sharer. he refused to publicize the facebook ads when they decided to do so. they have seen them with all kinds of problems and infighting between the parties and this unique thing to see that grassley and feinstein joined hands and you haven't been giving us the documents that we requested of you and we need more from you. the question is that there is always been a frustration with how quickly kushner has been putting up the material. is grassly going to go so far as
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to say go towards the area of subpoena and pull him in for an interview. that has been in short supply. >> there is another story developing that former president obama is about to embark on a five-day-trip for india and france. what do you know about this? why is the president doing this? >> this is new for me as well. i have been focused on congress today. president obama still has a lot of connections around the world and still has a lot of are with global leaders. it's a reminder of the last administration and the last president. at a time when president trump has been trying to push his weight around in various crisis, you find different receptions and people are perplexed by the
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president and some people are happy to be dealing with him and not obama, but in europe and asia, they don't know what they are getting and the question of what the message is coming from the trump administration and how to deal with him. to have the juxtaposition is not going to sit that well with the current president. the question is how does this add to the various processes to try to resolve crisis from nato to north korea? can obama contribute to that even though he is not working hand and glove with the trump administration or complicate an already complicated message and you will hear different opinions based on where people are on the political spectrum. >> he will be meeting with president xi in china and the in india and when he is in paris, he will probably meet with the french president as well. interesting to get his reaction, the former president of the united states, barack obama going on a three-nation tour. we will follow that.
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thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> new fallout over president trump calling a u.s. senator pocohontas in an event honoring n navajo war veterans.
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we are following breaking news and just getting word from south korean media that north korea launched a ballistic missile. will ripley is in seoul, south korea and has been to north korea more than a dozen times. tell us what south korean media is now reporting. >> this is a reliable source here, wolf. this is the news agency which is off in the first line hereof
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what we hear about the missile launches and they believe the missile has been launched from somewhere in north korea. this is all we know right now. there are lots of questions about the trajectory of the missile. north korea had waited more than two months before the last missile test in mid-september. you will recall that missile, the intermediate missile fired up over hokkaido. it was a busy month for the north koreans to have missile launches and a nuclear test happened all within the span of a month. then silence from pyongyang. in the past couple of days, we have been getting indications from sources in the u.s. as well as japan saying there have been preparations and radio chatter that there could be a ballistic launch imminent.
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here in seoul that, would mean it is 3:15 a.m. in pyongyang. we don't where the missile was launched from and was it added over japan and did they fire in a different trajectory? we don't know if it's still in the air. this is the way it goes. we know that north korea has been preparing if are a major test and with each passing day, there is growing concern about what they are going to do. in fact there was a press conference here in seoul in the last six or seven hours or so. the minster said they believe north korea could be finalizing the nuclear program by next year that backs up the reporting from over the summer. we said that north korea could have a reliable nuclear capable
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ballistic missile ready by early 2018. that could be week away from right now. >> that's a significant development. if they have accurate information a lot more quickly than earlier anticipated. i want to go to the senior correspondent over at the state department. what are you hearing over there? you are hearing the media saying north korea launched a ballistic missile and saying south korean officials, they are working on the missile capability and developing a capability more quickly than anticipated. we expect to hear from them soon on this. the tone on the issue lately has been one of at least trying to express optimism and a couple of
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months gap between now and the last launch. with the secretary and the president going to asia, the secretary has been talking about something of at least a possibility of there being dialogue and being open channels of diplomacy being the way to go here. in the past when we have seen a gap between launches, that gives the state department some reason to look at least a little bit hopefully at the situation. you have to remember it's a matter of days since the state department named or we should say renamed north korea to the list of nations that sponsor terror. added more sanctions. over the last several months we have seen sanctions hit hard. with multiple un resolutions. the nations have blocked imports to north korea of necessities like oil and blocked the
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exports. sanctions and diplomacy are working in that north korea is being affected by them. we will have to see what is the motivation for this launch? is it being named to the list of state sponsors of terror? is it another moving forward in the tensions that we have seen? we are waiting to hear from the state department on that. >> stand by. i want to go back to will ripley. i'm looking at the north korean missile launches of this year. in march again and april three. may, june, july, and august. since september 15th, this is 2.5 months since a missile launch. china sent a special envoy to pyongyang to talk to the north koreans. doesn't look like that generated a lot of positive movement now that north korea according to south korean media launched a ballistic missile.
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>> when that was sent over, president trump tweeted he was hope thafl that might result in an action. all indications is that it was a cordial conversations and pleasantries exchanged. they have further consolidated his power. it was not the ultimatum that the united states had been hoping for. china continues to say all parties involve and that which ares the united states need to show restraint on the korean peninsula. they condemn the launches and they don't take the action that the united states feels will be necessary to stop north korea. and sanctions are going to hurt the economy. they are prepared for that and have been talking for weeks about ways to try to help their economy weather the storm.
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there were plenty of cars on the street and have a flow of electricity and the store shelves are full. the movements are always controlled and the north koreans back then told me no matter what they said or anyone else throws their way, they are going to finalize the program and they have been saying now for months that more tests are coming. they have threatened to detonate a nuclear device above the ocean. how they would do that and would they go through with it, we don't know.
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they don't know what other tests may be coming. >> according to south korean media launched ballistic missile. i want to bring in the or an intercontinental ballistic missile. they have capabilities in all of these areas. >> that's correct, wolf, we don't know that. and no official comment from the pentagon or u.s. pacific about this official launch. officials told me in recorreents they saw them move around. but giagain they do this all th time, so hard to assess whether
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launch is imminent or moving equipment around to possibly deceive knowing that satellites are watching what's going on. so, again, there had been activity, but no clear signs that a launch was imminent. >> i want to go to hong kong. ivan, there was some hope that the delay, two and a half months since september 15th, there hasn't been an intercontinental ballistic missile from north korea, that maybe this was the result of pressure from north korea, especially coming in from china right now to deal with this emerging crisis. and it is a major crisis right now. what are you hearing over there? hong kong? >> reporter: well, i think what's so striking about this is it's coming after this long pause in what had missile launches up to two and a half
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months ago a weekly occurrence, frequency, wolf. another question in my mind, this is happening in the predawn hours usually the missile launches that we were covering, again, on almost a weekly basis, were around sunrise every day. so this is also quite unusual that this smissile be launched this early in the morning close to nmidnight. so it's still early and trying to figure out what is the nature of this missile. clearly, it's going to it be a challenge to the u.s. so soon after president trump made his tour of asian countries and made a big show of rallying support for pyongyang, wolf. >> and i want to go back to will ripley in seoul, south korea, it comes after a few days that
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president trump announced u.s. was once again putting north korea on the list of state sponsors of terror. and i'm sure there is going to be speculation that maybe this missile launch is response at least in part to that decision by the united states. >> and, yeah, sure, they were looking at what happened shortly after he returned to the united states. and i'll say this the north korean say this is calculated. this is not something where necessarily hair trigger response. this is something they have been planning likely and they choose it for shock value, but other conditions, technical conditions, they gain scientific knowledge from these noknowledg
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whether success or failure they learn something. and they have to have all the right conditions. because every time they launch a new missile they have dozens of cameras. at some point, we don't know when it will be, if this launch turns out to be major success, they will announce it to their people, and kim jong-un projects power internally and also projects menass externally to the rest of the world. so that's the purpose of the missiles. and whether it's a response to one thing or another, they have been state sponsor list, that was something not surprise to them, certainly infuriating to them, but you add them to the u.n. security council sanctions, they said all of those steps have motivated them to finish
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the nuclear program. we shouldn't be surprised this is happening. also should brace ourselves of more launches of nuclear tests by north korea. perhaps they have decided quiet time at the end of the year, but maybe not for them. >> i'll read it to our viewers. north korea fired an unidentified fied ballistic missile early this morning from pyongyang to the east direction south korea joint chiefs of staffs analyzing more details of the missile with the u.s. side. i want to bring in retired general. you studied north korea for a long time. also told we don't know if it's a short range, medium range, intercontinental ballistic missile, but the missile apparently is still in the air right now. what do you make of all of this? >> well, what it would appear to
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me, wolf, they are testing their capacity to get a missile so far up that it could replicate what it would take coming down to ensure that a nuclear device on it would not burn up in the atmosphere. i agree with your earlier guest this is a study progression of the north korean nuclear program which has been unabated by either diplomacy or anything else up to this point. >> they are relying on chief of staff. walk us through the process, cooperation between the u.s. and south korean. how do they work the assessment, the analysis, what the intended target if you will, walk us through that process. >> well, it's not dissimilar to
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any ballistic missile, whether defending against short range ballistic missiles, scuds that were fired by saddam, ballistic missiles intentionally going to be fired at u.s. troops. the physics and capabilities are roughly the same. they don't change that much. we do have an extensive radar capability inside korea and elsewhere being used for protection of our troops and south korea troops. so it's not unusual to hear this first come from the south koreans, but you can expect there will be a follow that comes from our own north korean air defense command who have much more sophisticated capability, of their original purpose which was to defend us from north korea icbm. >> staff saying they are analyzing more details of this missile with the u.s. side. so that's precisely what they
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are doing, significant develo development. stand by for a moment. over at the state department. this was certainly anticipated as a possibility. but two and a half months in between launching of these missiles very different than earlier in the year happening once a month. what are you hearing from your sources over there? >> yeah, you look at the flow of this. we went for a time words back and forth, personal insults, words like fire and fury and destruction, threats of north korea hitting united states, threats back at north korea. then we go through these periods of time like we were in right now, even though there was a possibility of another launch, and people watching that closely, where there could be at least a pause and a talk about real diplomacy at work, that
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sanctions appear to be working. not only will the u.s. talk to north korea under the right conditions, but the u.s. does and is talking to north korea through channels, through these back channels. so the secretary of state has been saying, yes, we've been talking. those lines of communication are open. so we go through these little windows, unfortunately, of some optimism expressed by the secretary of state, even if that's at a time where it's tempering some of the rhetoric that's been coming out of the white house. but the bar, you know, has had to be lowered. that for a while it was, well, the u.s. would only talk to north korea if there is a real demonstration of a backing away from their nuclear program. or the u.s. won't talk to north korea with a view that there is going to be a future for them to have north korea nuclear program. now the bar is, well, if there is a period of time where it seems like they are not going to
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launch anything or period of quiet, that might be a good sign that it's time to sit down and at least talk or get talks under way. and then you have yet another incident like this. so it shows you once again that the tension, that the real threat has not gone away, and now the state department is going to have to come up with some other response to this. and we are getting to a point where the sanctions, there are many of them, there are still areas where the u.s. and other countries can squeeze north korea, of course, u.s. would like to see many other countries, namely, china, squeeze north korea even more. but you do get to a point where it comes to sanctions there is just not that more they'll do, wolf. >> all right. michelle, stand by. we'll stay on top of all the breaking news. north korea has launched a ballistic missile. our special coverage continues right now.