tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN December 15, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PST
to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management. republicans released their final version of what would be the president's first legislative victory if it passes. they vote as early as next week. phil mattingly joins us with the latest. >> it's a $1.25 trillion bill, a massive corporate tax cut from 35% down to 21%. that's a change that had been set at 20%, but they need to figure out how to pay for things in this bill. the child tax credit was boosted to $2,000. they also boost ed the refundbility from $1,100 to $1,400.
interestingly enough, the obamacare individual mandate, that will be repealed through this bill, not through the health care floos failed earlier, but through this bill. the estate tax return something a lot of republicans talked about repealing for years now, that won't be repealed because of that cost issue. instead of the exemption will be doubled. anderson, you don't have to tell you democrats are unanimous in their opposition to this bill and they don't believe it does what republicans say it will do. but looks like republicans are on track to get this done. >> sththis would be a major vicy for donald trump fit passes. how involvd is he? >> if you look at what happened with health care, there were no shortage of republicans who would tell me and criticize thousand president handled that process. he called marco rubio today and senator rubio was going to come
around. he's been helpful with senators like ron johnson. behind the scenes he's also asked for things that made things a little bit more difficult on the individual side, dropping the individual rate at the top from 39.6% to 37%, the president was instrumental in asking for that. i do think when it comes down to it, i don't think any republican up here would say they were totally satisfied on that front, but they do believe when it came down to get votes in place over the course of the last couple weeks, the president has played a positive role. the big question now is this will be a legislative victory for republicans. will this politically pay off in the end? that's an open question right now. there's a lot of promises. as of now, republicans feel good about the votes, feel good about the policy, at least from their perspective and they think they're going to feel good about the politics.
>> joining us is the panel. jason, will this pay off for republicans? >> absolutely. this is going to be a big win for the president. we're going to see the 3% plus gdp growth going forward. there's been a lot of talk what this do to help american families. there's also an international competitiveness angle here as well. the u.s. corporate tax rate will go down. i think you're going to see companies redomiciling into the u.s. it's going to make the u.s. a much more tractive place to do business. i've been to ireland twice in this year. and the first question that comes up is is this tax bill going to pass because folks in other countries know that money that's currently parked overseas is going to come back into the u.s. so this is going to be a big win for the president and a big win for our economy and a big winner
wynn for taxpayers. >> sounds good, anderson, but you the facts are when regular american people find out members of congress had the chance to do one thing, republicans decided to cut their taxes and raise taxes on every single. parties usa did a survey on this. it said once folks are exposed to what is really in this bill and they find out this is a tax cut for the wealthy, folks are inclined to go against the incumbent house republicans. that is an issue. and i think this is going to be a 2018 issue because no one has taken to the streets saying give me tax cuts for the wealthy. >> do we know who wins or loses. >> it's a corporate boondoggle. it's about corporations. the tax rate's being lowered from 35% to 21%.
but the average big multinational pays around 20% already. it's not like cutting this tax rate is going to change the business environment. i think what's going to happen is the cash that does come back from overseas will go straight to the stockton. the average american is not going to see their wages go up and they're not going to have more security. we're at the end of a recovery cycle. we're due for a regulation. >> that will in their paycheck starting in february. the irs is already working. if they get this bill on the president's next miracles you will see the who he woulding rates adjusted and people will start to see more money in their take-home paychecks. >> i would be interested to get a little bit of an education. the conservative thesis, which has a lot of basis in logic, consolidate more wealth in the private sector so it can be more
flexible and adaptively deployed into industry and development. so the premise is we'll create more capital at the corporate level and wealthy families but there's no incentive for it to be invested, and the works with the salt deduction -- i want to have money to invest but i'm not going to compel investment in society. and the price of doing that is the salt deduction which is the which comes from the economically active states in the exhibit1 at the expense of the public school system and infrastructure. so you're saying i'm going to raise the cost of infrastructure in new york and california, reduce the budgets for public skolz in those places. i'm going to create a warehouse of capital in the private sector, but i'm not going to incentivize it or compel it to be invested in the actual creation of jobs, and that's
where the disconnect is. why not the compulsion to vef the money? >> it's there. folks want to go and take that money and expand their businesses and hire more people. i've seen it. it's going to happen. >> but you're saying they should be compelled to? >> can we go back? >> the fact we're lowering the tax rate -- >> that's not true. >> i got to tell you, if you go back, there's no evidence that tax cuts actually create growth. that's a bipartisan thing. post-financial crisis under obama, you didn't get growth from tax cuts. you have an asset bubble because wealthy companies have tons of money, buying back their own stock, that's what's going to happen if we give money that
have money on the balance sheet already. >> there is something to say about -- >> the last time we had fundamental tax reform, not just tweaking of the rates, and doing nothing on the correspondent side, 15 million jobs were created, and per capita income went up 20% in the following year. democrats like the government to make people do things. >> republicans on the hill are saying that they will compel businesses. we've had businesses on the record saying we're not injecting this money into the pockets of the american people. they said we're giving this money to your shareholders. democrats put forth an amendment to this bill that would do exactly what you're talking about, and it was shot down. >> that's right. >> what about the stack holders. i would much ra are that that paid out in dividends than
sitting in a baeng in ireland or in other countries around the world. >> i don't degree with that at all. >> great. so let's bring it back here, put the money to work in the united states and keep our economy growing. >> it doesn't trickle down to them. sue might get some, but not joe. folks are saying this tax bill is going to be good for middle class americans -- >> you're going to get a tax cut. you're going to love your tax cut. >> clearly for republicans the calculus was there's greater danger in not passing something than there is in passing something that may be unpopular. >> i think there was that. it there's another part of this which is that if this tax bill goes through and you get cash coming back, it's going to go straight into the markets. that may keep the markets up
until after the midterms. >> the other thing that kwuconfs me is why salt? it reeds political in that the salt reduction is at the direct expense of the economies which are the densest population and the frurk frinfrastructures in and california. >> in the midwest where we believe in low taxes, we don't think our tax dollars should be used to offset the bloated out of control spending of these traditional -- so that money is being taken out of our pockets. >> it's interesting you say that because the blue states pay two times as much to the red states han the red states receive.
what you said was it don't tell actually correct. what you're saying now is in addition to pay for indiana's pay structure, you'll truce tax deductions for blue states to pay for their own infrastructure. >> with keeping the $10,000 threshold and all the rates coming down it's not going to be the biggest impact on the salt. >> in 20 republican districts when they found out who was in this bill, they didn't like it, and it compelled them to vote against the incumbent republican. that spells trouble. much more to talk about, including the president's answer when asked whether held consider partnereding michael flynn. another warning about rex tillerson and whether he can continue in his job. hey, man. oh!
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eras. they're defined by accomplishments. by victories. by those with the resourcefulness, the ingenuity, and the grit to help ensure the next energy to power our dreams, will be american energy. president trump's private lawyers are scheduled to meet with robert mueller and his team next week. the president's team hopes to get the understanding of the next steps. meanwhile the president's leaving open the possibility of pardoning michael flynn who's pleaded guilty of lying to the fbi about his conversations with a russian ambassador.
>> i don't want to talk about pardons for michael flynn yet. i can say this. when you look at what's gone on with the fbi and the justice department, people are very, very angry. >> earlier tonight i spoke with congressman jim hines a democrat on the house intelligence committee. i asked about the president's efforts to undermine the mueller investigation. >> i don't need to tell you about the truly awful effort that's being conducted by the president and his allies like sean hannity and janine peer row to throw mud on the fbi, all in the service of creating some question about whether robert mueller is capable of producing an impartial report. it is a pronouncedly damaging thing, not just today, but to the confidence that americans should have in their presidency and government. >> is that something sunk being orchestrated by the white house? >> well, you know, is it being orchestrated in the sense there's direct lines from the oval office to fox news?
i don't think so, but i did hear the president say this investigation, he hates it and wants it to go away and if i recall correctly, he said do something. people need to understand that you don't have a democracy unless you have an impartial, depoliticized department of justice and fbi. you know what? fbi agents having political opinions is not politicizing the fbi. there's nobody in the fbi or in the marine corps that don't hav political opinions. robert mueller did exactly the right thing and took them off the case. so the american people need to be prepared to respond to the firing of mueller or to further attacks on the doj and the fbi. and the way you would respond to a hostile act against our democracy because that's what it would be.
>> do you think this president could resist using the pardon power? >> who knows? i've long since given up trying to predict what this president will and won't do. he pardoned joey arpaio. who knows what he would do. i have no idea what he had in his mind when he made that comment. it looks like michael flynn is cooperating with robert mueller. and the president just injected sort of a potential get out of jail free card to michael flynn. stop talking because whatever it is mueller does to you, whatever indictments are issued, whatever jeopardy you are in, i will fix that for you. that is not either helpful to the investigation or, anderson, you know, as parents you get used to innocent behavior and guilty behavior. that is not the behavior of
somebody who knows that they are innocent. >> appreciate it. thank you. back with the panel. joining the conversation now. is there reason to believe robert mueller's team is not going to want to interview the president? >> you know, we don't know is the short answer. it does seem like the door is closing as far as the time that they're going to be allotted with the president and with his legal team. they've interviewed everyone else and we always li this show saying can you imagine what and they know what we don't know yet? i would imagine he's leaving the door open with a possible interview with the president. >> do you think this is -- the white house likes to say this is in the final stretch. did you believe that? >> i do because i believe that the entire thing ultimately is actually not going to get -- in other words i believe the people that are in opposition to donald
trump have high hopes this is going to lead to him leaving office, his removal. it's impossible for me to see how that is the outcome off this. if anything, the interest in the theater of this is probably peaked and will diminish. hard for me to see how this ultimately continues for too much longer. >> charles, do you agree? >> it's impossible to know. it's hard to even speculate about that subject. on the issue of whether or not they interview donald trump himself, it will be impossible not to interview him and say you have conducted a thourough investigation. i have no doubt about that whatsoever. >> any investigation would have to. >> you cannot have spent a year
investigating connections between the trump campaign and russia and not talk to the person who was at the pinnacle of that campaign. it's impossible to do that. whether or not something comes of that, whether or not trump -- anybody who gets caught up gets a pardon. i do believe what was just said before, that he does send signals saying if you are nice to me you might get a favor. if you throw me under the bus, you will get no favors from me. i do think those kinds of signals are being sent when he e equivocates. >> he starts to answer a question by saying i'm not going to talk about it and goes there. i also wouldn't take off the table the possibility of a mueller firing. >> you really think so? >> again, who am i to say this
is going to happen? i just think you can see the wheels frurng not just the administration but also from those that support the president for at least setting up the stage of possibly questioning whether mueller is capable of conducting a fair and thorough investigation. >> do you think he should be fired? >> you've seen sarah sanders including a deputy attorney general testifying. there's been no discussions or movement about firing the special counsel. so i think this is all just mere speculation where there has been no indication from anyone at the white house they're considering doing that. >> right, but there wasn't discussion about firing comey until comey was fired. most of this does seem to come from the president himself, doesn't it, jason? >> with regard to -- >> yeah, who he decides to fire any given day. it wasn't as if there was a lot of preamble about whether james comey should be fired and then the president fired him. >> they are two different
situations and i haven't heard anything about it. i do think this is starting to wind down. i think dillon made a good point there might be folks within the orbit. paul manafort made some pretty stupid business decisions that were going to obviously get him in trouble, but there's still nothing regarding the so-called collusion between the campaign and russia. and so for after this entire year that has gone by, there's absolutely -- >> there's plenty of democrat on committees saying, actually, there's evidence of an attempt of collusion. donald trump jr. taking meetings with somebody who he believes represents the russian government with dirt on hillary clinton. isn't that at least an intent to collude by its very nature? >> donald junior taking a meeting, he said he shouldn't
have taken that meeting. that's not colluding with a foreign government. >> if someone represents i represent a foreign government and i want to meet with you because we have dirt on hillary clinton, and you say let's go for it, that's not an interest in colluding? >> if someone has information and if you want to listen to what they have they say, that's not colluding with a foreign government. donald junior himself said helmeted have taken that meeting. but that's not colluding with a foreign government. we know the russians have been trying to get involved for years, not just this past election, but going back to 2012, 2008. there's not one shred of proof the trump campaign colluded with a foreign entity in this past campaign. >> that we have seen yet. i just want to be clear taking a meeting isn't normal. >> it's not illegal. >> let her finish. >> taking that meeting's not normal. it's not proper procedure in any kind of campaign f. a foreign
adversary approaches you with inspection, i wouldn't brush this off as standard. >> it's not a way to do a do-over on the election. >> no one is try to do that. we have maybe seen a hint of obstruction. we've seen donald trump brings these things upon himself, just today with those comments. i'm not ready to talk about that yet. he leaves the door open and then causes -- we're up here having a conversation. think about what robert mueller's talking about. >> let's take a hold. we'll continue this discussion. we'll be right back.
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charles, you were about to say something. >> i think it's important that we always lay out that there are four pillars to the mueller investigation. three are criminal and one is political. the political one is the only one the president goes back to denying all the time, which is collusion. you can argue there's already evidence of some collusion or attempts to do so. the other three he does not harp on. those are conspiracy, coverup. >> obstruction of justice. >> an obstruction. there's attempts to cover up in the firing of comey. if you believe what comey says, there's been little to dispute his testimony. maybe there will be something. but if it happened as he suggested happened, that does hint at the idea of coverup.
there may be some conspiracy to cover up. there may also be conspiracy among the people who were so desperate and thirsty to get some help from the russians who were part of the campaign. and then there is the pathological lying and the kind of cages amnesia that has struck everybody who apparently was part of this campaign. somewhere in there mueller is fishing around. and whether or not we come back to this political point about collusion and whether or not it's an arguable point or not, that's for people on the hill to debate once they get mueller's report or whatever he gives to them. these other three points are the criminal points, and that is where people will really face the fire. that is where the four people already who have gotten in trouble. >> do you think there's enough the"there" there that it
compromises the presidency? >> this is the thing. >> it's unknowable. >> they had 400,000 pages, 2,000 were hot or whatever that means. we don't know what that means. one good thing about mueller is he's not leaking the way people want him to leak. so when we no clue what he knows. for a prosecutor, there's a strategy to revealing what you know. so there's no pressure right now for him to indict somebody right now. >> jason, the deal he offered to flynn obviously he knows that flynn had to proffer something, that he knows what flynn has. every legal analyst says you don't offer that unless they
have something on somebody else. >> i tried to get to the bottom of this to figure out what's up with this narrative saying flynn might have something. the biggest falsehood out there is that flynn has something on other people because if you're a prosecutor with mueller's team, you have to charge flynn with anything you have on him or anything he could go and say roll on somebody else because if you put flynn on the stand, for example, and all he's pled guilty to is lying, he would get destroyed in a cross-examination. they would come back and say, wait a minute, you pled to lying as opposed to this just to go knock your sentencing down. he would get destroyed in a cross-examination. so the fact that he is only pled guilty to lying is extremely telling. especially on the flip side. all this is doing is essentially knocking down flynn's sentence. i think this is a very so
important extinction. >> do you think they offered him a deal because that's all they could get on him? >> as if right now if they had a list of other things on general flynn, as if right now, i think they have charged him with what they have right now. >> the other part of evidence, the more substantial part of evidence is documentation. you're assuming all he could do is testify on the stand. he could also supply actual proof, which is much harder to refute. you have open the possibility that that is also what he can provide. >> text messages, voice mails. when we come back we're going to try to make sense of a former presidential assistant, omarosa manigault-newman book pitch extravaganza. when you think of saving money,
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omarosa manigault, former white house assistant, reality show contestant and author is speaking out again. here's part of what she says on night li"night line". >> donald trump is parable. he's not a racist. yes, i will acknowledge many of the exchanges, particularly in the last six months, have been racially charged. do we then stop and label him as a racist. >> no. >> let's bring back in the panel. charles, i know you spent part of the day reading the book. i have not. i couldn't resist. what do you make of -- she's clearly pitching a book. she's clearly trying to come up with a fifth act or whatever it may be. does that make sense to you what she's saying? >> this to me feels like the raft of omarosa.
omarosa has this machiavellian genius that allows her to smile in your face and stab you in the back. this is probably one of the most devastating interviews by someone who first in trump's inner circle i have read or seen because she's essentially confessing that he has a race problem. the semantic line is very thin. you might want to frame it as an argument about intent and malice. murder versus manslaughter. you could make a real argument whether or not the person was act with intent and malice, but the other person is still dadea. but the effect is the same. today she was confessing that is a real feature of the man.
having been where she was at, she defended him then and basically said to the moderate tore, what do you want me to do, walk away? that's what she's doing. >> you have to take into account she's clearly trying to tease out something to get a book deal or a reality show project or something based on her experience in the white house. doesn't that taint what her commentary --? >> shift the focus away from the fact she wants to profit always and forever. >> she's always about the coin. >> she's going to do that. but understand what she's doing in the process. she's throwing him under the bus. >> unless it's just a pitch for a book. >> having worked with omarosa on the campaign as did mark, omarosa worked hard for the
president on the campaign i got to know her pretty well. there are a lot of qualities in here and you can see why the president likes her. she's the of you and doesn't back down. she was a good teammate on the campaign trail. all of this binges us to the point where she's had a rocky dpaurpt from the white house. as a friend. there's a cross roads where omarosa is at where she's going to be approached by people from the left, different media people, folks coming at her saying here's your opportunity to make a quick buck by bashing the president and whether it be going back to politics on the left or he's a reality tv project, here's your opportunity. here's something for a little bit of cash to do this, and i would say don't sell out and dive into this because it's going to be fleeting. >> let me just speak for the left. they are not courting omarosa. no one has to ask omarosa to do what she's doing.
i know omarosa personally. look, part of the reason i think her good morning meramerica interview was disastrous, no one knew how print she is at manipulating a situation. no one on the left needs to court omarosa to go out there and do what she's doing. there's validity in what she's doing. if you know omarosa, she's about her coin, but that doesn't take away from the fact what she's exposing about donald trump is something that has been out there, that has ban criticism of him. is there also valid criticism of omarosa? absolutely. >> anybody that has followed her career over the past ten years or so, is this really a
surprise? >> seems like a -- >> whatever it is, everyone knows her by her first name and everybody knows her by her temper and personality. i'm surprised she didn't have any nondisparjt clause written into her initial contract when she started at the white house because i don't know how anyone would have expected a departure other than the one we're seeing right now. going back to the president being racial not racist, i hear what you're saying, but i think there would be more sympathy after we heard this about the frederick douglas -- >> i have no think for omarosa. i don't think she's doing anything coming out today or tomorrow or yesterday on behalf of the betterment of black people. i don't think there's anything necessarily good and righteous. >> we're going to take a break.
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. we have been talking about the curious case of omarosa manigault from reality tv to the white house with plenty of omarosa. >> has being so close to donald trump effected your personal relationships with friends or family? >> absolutely. there are people that stopped talking to me. it has been a very long, lonely -- >> you go through your entire life. >> what about bridesmaids? >> one of your bridesmaids? >> a woman that was going to be in my wedding in the spring, and i will never forget people that turned their backs on me when all i was trying to do was help the black community.
it's been so incredibly hard. >> we didn't see the tears. >> nobody cries any more. you make a face and -- >> try to make us say mean things. that happens. >> we are not talking about, which we should be, why was she the highest ranking black person in this white house. with her exit, there are no high ranking african-american advisers. i think that harkens back to why people were so angry that she was the face of black people for this administration. >> she basically was trying to block people, african americans, that might have been able to contribute. >> absolutely. so when she goes out and does these interviews, look, i was trying to help the community, there's a real conversation to be had about the receipts where
that didn't happen. and folks that were keenly interested in setting up a black agenda for this white house, i think it is difficult because i think the president has ties to white supremacy. that's a whole other story. >> what? off the rails. >> can we get par i son art in the white house. great supporter. should be in the white house. >> seemed like from what he said last night on the program, he obviously has contacts in the white house, spent time in this white house, but she would attempt to block him and others who were trying to do work to help this administration. >> there's a great opportunity, folks like paris ton art, pastor daryl scott, active on the campaign trail, love to see a bunch of folks that were supportive, part of the national diversity coalition be inside the white house and advising him, being on board with the
team. maybe this is a great opportunity to bring in some folks -- >> it is also important when you want to do outreach with herself professed title, person in charge of black outreach who has some roots in the black community and some affinity in that group. always baffled me that she's persona non grata, and that would be the face of the person you reach out to. even if they weren't part of the campaign or team, take audience with people that have some standing within the community, even when they have the listening sessions for african americans, you look around the table, there was no one of weight within the african-american community even at that. >> is there any scenario -- >> i am going to say, that's a problem. and when you look at omarosa's track record, a whole year, the thing she's most synonymous with is outreach to black colleges and universities trying to get
funding for them, that was a debacle. they showed up, assume they're pleading the case, they have no time to do that, they're rushed in the oval office. kellyanne conway on the sofa, and rushed out. and now they're bitter about it. they were coming back for the annual conference, these college presidents, and said can you just delay this because of your response to charlottesville, we need time to deal with this. he refused. what he did instead is reduce the number, basically shrunk the meeting. if you won't play ball, if you won't overlook my kind of -- you won't come when i say come, you won't be here. this is omarosa, this is in her wheel house. she has completely failed at the one thing she said she was going to do. >> maybe the departure is a good
thing, a point i was making. many a criticism to be had. there's opportunity here, set her celebrity and personal agenda aside, the fact she's gone can be looked at as a beneficial thing. >> is the white house going to put other people of color in a position to influence the president authentically. i don't know. >> thanks, everybody. be right back. let's get the one with the candy canes. well, you know, the wrapping paper doesn't make the holidays. it's what's inside that counts. it's a phone for mom. okay, well, it's also what's inside the phone that counts, too. circuits? no, the network. so the network is inside the phone? well, no, the network's around the phone. and verizon is the most awarded network ever. that's why more people count on it. here you go.
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