tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN December 21, 2017 11:00am-12:00pm PST
hi there i'm brooke baldwin. thank you so much for being here on cnn this thursday afternoon. we green wibegin with breaking the shutdown showdown after passing tax cuts not seen in generations. republicans control both houses of congress and white house and have a bit of a new problem staring them in the face. they are facing the government shutting down on their watch, but now we are getting word of the house vote for a stop gap measure at some point this afternoon. it is coming just hours before the deadline of midnight tomorrow, about 34 hours from
now. the president tweeting this, quote, house democrats want a shutdown for the holidays to distract from the very popular just passed tax cuts. house republicans don't let this happen. pass the cr. that's continuing resolution. pass the cr today and keep our government open. let's go straight to capitol hill to sunlen, our correspondent up there. sunlen, talk to me about a time line and when the short-term government funding could actually come through. >> reporter: yeah, this is a big sign, brooke, as you referenced this is starting to come together today the fact that the leadership has set a time this afternoon to vote on this cr plan, likely happen between 4:30 and 5:00 range tonight but simply would not bring a bill to the floor of the house if it would fail. that's a sign leadership is confident they have the support behind the scenes to get the vote through and passed through the house tonight. we have been talking in the
recent days that they had been battling behind the scenes, republicans amongst themselves over what is going to be included in the cr deal. as it stands right now the plan from leadership to pass this stopgap cr funding until january 19th, it would include a short-term reauthorization of the fiza program, the government program that expires at the end of the year, and gives money to the children's health insurance, which expires in october t and discuss disaster relief bill, by texas and puerto rico hit hard by puerto rico and wildfires in california as well. they said we are waiting. it has to get from the house, and senate, and a lot of potential hiccups along the way. as we know nothing on capitol hill is final until it's final.
>> sunlen, thank you very much. she mentioned chip, children's health insurance program. let me bring in two ladies with me. i have amy parns, who is coauthor of. and national political reporter. let's piggy back off sunlen's piece, the house shoved in the cr. amy, this is for you and effects millions of children in this country. and it lost funding in september, has all this bipartisan support, and now within the cr it would be funded through the end of march. why drag something out that has all this support and effects millions of kids in this country? >> well, because the deficit was a key issue on this. >> money, money, money. >> money, money, money chblt th. they wanted to push this and make it part of the successful tarks bill, that never happened,
so it got shoved into this. this is all kinds of pressure. this is something republicans like and want. so they were getting pressure from democrats, but it all came together in the end. but they can't make it work past march, so they are doing like a little punt, if you will, until the spring to get it kind of settled for now, then they'll continue to work on it. but the states meanwhile are screaming bloody murder saying this isn't helpful. this he a they are struggling to do something so this is a temporary fix. >> we'll talk to a mom next hour who will say this little punt is not good enough for my daughter so she will have a plea to congress on that. speaking about what republicans like is this. the fact that number of companies will write bonus, they will invest, wells fargo. and the bank said they plan to hike the minimum wage to $15. other firms at&t and comcast
promise $1,000 bonuses. that is worth highlighting as a win for them. >> yeah certainly. and these are companies facing pr battles, wells fargo among them, this is a way to get good press for themselves. and republicans are running with them p as they should, this is real money for people. republicans are facing pr battle. we talked about how unpopular this bill is. democrats are already planning to run on this in 2018. republicans are kind of banking on the fact that people will view this more -- this will become more popular once people see these changes, see some kind of changes in their withholdings. they estimate in april or so. but, again, it remains to be seen whether this will be a motivating factor for the republican base. i mean, the republicans have a lot of accomplishments to tout at the and of this year, the tax bill, but also judges and other
kind of executive things. or whether this is something that really just rallies up the democratic base. that's what democrats are seeing. you are seeing that reflected in the generic polling we have seen over the past couple of days. >> there are a number of americans, obviously, who are championing what we saw in the south lawn at this time yesterday, but a lot are coming out against the tax bill, disney, yeah, that disney world, spoke out in what has become a viral facebook post. >> they gave a lot of money, they gave some of that to my dad and my dad gave it to me. i did not do anything to earn that money. you might have heard a tax cut, but yes it's a fats tax cut for me along with other people, corporations mostly in the 1%, but probably not going to be a meaningful tax cut for you. for example, if you work for a living, your income is probably going to be taxed at a higher rate than mine. once i set up a pass-through
kofks to send it through. that's right. 21%. i really hope i've made you angry. you should be. no one who votes for this tax bill will be voting with your life in mind. >> let me add one more voice to this, dave shapell, who is networks special, which was filmed long before this. but he talks about the poor whites who elected president trump. >> i listen to him say naive, poor white people things. my aunt, donald trump is going to go to washington, and he's going to fight for us. i'm standing there thinking in my mind, you dumb [ bleep ] [ laughter ] you are poor. he's fighting for me. [ laughter ] >> okay. so i realize dave shapell
doesn't speak for everyone in this country. but still we heard from senate majority leader now we have to sell this. how do they sell this when they have folks saying this? >> that's the thing, as caitlyn said it's going to be a major part of the democratic platform going forward in 2018 and they'll use that, dave shapell, and disney person, and saying this was a big fairy tail ale t they weren't for the middle class, everyone but the middle class. this is why democrats are a little gleeful if you will going into the knew year, because it's a palpable thing they can campaign on. >> another piece of this, one senator who was noticeably absent yesterday from the party on the south lawn was maine senator susan collins who voted yes for the tax bill. people were asking yesterday, what happened, did she get
played? this is one of the questions out there. in exchange for tax cuts, she was promised obama payments to health insurers to help lower level get payments. and though we have no insurance mandate. so what do you think she's thinking today? >> this is a really big part of this tax bill. not only did they pass the tax provision, but they repealed the individual mandate. which conservatives are saying that this is a huge accomplishment. what it also means is that republicans certainly now own anything that comes with the fallout of obamacare, just as they'll own a lot of things that happened with the economy, for better or worse. and so republicans are now in this position where susan collins especially, since she's been championing this, and voted against that health care repeal, the total repeal earlier, what happens if premiums rise? what happens if the system unravels and people are left without insurance? and so this is going to be something that they are going to
have to tackle next year, but it's also something that people aren't really talking much about. but this is a huge part of this bill. >> final quick thought from you going into 2018 with this administration. >> stay tuned. >> i know it's funny we talk about 2018 and what could happen, but there is a lot ladies where we are today and next november. >> and congress has a huge hurdle going into the new year. >> amy and caitlyn, ladies thank you so much. if i don't see you merry christmas. we do have breaking news, we will remember, despite direct warnings from u.s. ambassador to the u.n., nikki haley, they voted overwhelmingly to condemn u.s. decision to recognize jerusalem as the capitol of israel. and how will the white house respond to allies who didn't stand with the u.s. also, this is ts disputed
ballot a changed vote that is progress a curveball in the virginia election that's now tied after a year of campaigning and knocking on doors, we have a new detail how they'll determine a winner ks and you'll be surprised given the way technology is in 2017. speaking of technology, rare admission tech giant apple why your older iphone is running slower. hmm. you are watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. she's nationally recognized for her compassion and care. he spent decades fighting to give families a second chance.
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they risk losing funding if they cast vote against u.s. u.s. ambassador nikki haley with this stinging rebuke before the vote. >> united states will remember this day in which they were singled out in the general assembly for the very act of exercising our right as a sovereign nation. we will remember it when we are called upon to once again make the world's largest contribution to the united nations. and we will remember it when so many countries come kcalling on us as they so often do to pay even moran use our influence for their benefit. >> let's go straight to cnn global affairs correspondent. and elise, this vote was nonbinding. so was it mostly symbolic? what's implication what we hear there from ambassador haley? >> it's completely symbolic. it changes nothing. it doesn't change the u.s. recognition of jerusalem. it doesn't do anything.
you know, i'm talking to analysts and such, i'm not really so sure why president trump cares so much. i mean, i think that ambassador haley and this is one of the things that she had when she came in to the united nations. united nations is anti-israel organization. there really is a bias against israel there. so many more resolutions against israel than any other country. and including the u.n. human rights council agenda item related to israel. so i think that's part of this. but, look, president trump and his national security strategy, just a few days ago said countries are sovereign to do as they wish with their policy. and in fact ambassador haley said the same thing today. so, yes, president trump sr a sovereign president of a sovereign nation, able to do what he wants with his embassy. but the united nations member states are also sovereign
nations and why aren't they fwree to do what they want. it's a consistent message in my view. >> do you think the president follows through with his threat to cut funding? >> i don't think so, brooke. if you look at some of the country that is voted for this resolution, it's particularly in the middle east, we are talking about egypt, jordan, iraq, these are some of the largest recipients of u.s. aid. and the u.s. doesn't do that as a favor. it does it because it's u.s. national security interest to stabilize iraq, to stabilize jordan, to stabilize egypt. and when it's with the united nations, look, i was just traveling with nikki haley in africa, several months ago, and she said this was pennies on the dollar. and prumesident trump said the same thing. so will other nations that voted against it, maybe. but some of the largest u.s. allies voted here, and that's
their right to do. >> vice president mike pence heading to this part of the world in january. given all of this, elise, we'll continue that conversation when that happens. good to see you. coming up here on cnn, top democrat puts the president on notice warning him don't even think about firing special counsel robert mueller. >> in the united states of america, no one, no one is above the law, not even the president. >> and how about this today, just a couple weeks after this dramatic scene after north korean soldier defecting under dmz, something else is happening. what is going on over there. we'll talk to an expert coming up. whoooo.
now, lawmakers are grilling the fbi director, still happening behind closed doors, but this is happening as conservative media continue to accuse robert mueller and his team of anti-trump bias with the russia investigation. some of the claims are growing to include federal law enforcement agencies and even call for the fbi and department of justice to be investigated by a second independent counsel. now today we are hearing from congressional republican who says it is no secret he's investigating the department of justice. so let's go straight to manu raju our senior correspondent. and talking about nunes here who had recused himself from his committees investigation earlier this year. what's this really about? >> well, remember, devin nunes was cleared by the house earlier
this month so no longer under investigation. he said that he had stepped a side temporarily from running the russian investigation. but now that investigation, ethics committee investigation is over, he has moved onto other things. he has, i should say, brooke, been looking into doj and possible fbi actions that he viewed as improper, the work with british agent steele and putting together the dossier with president trump. this is something he has been doing for months. and he said no secret this is part of what he's doing, but several investigations in areas not related to the russia investigation, and one area is also the clinton email investigation. and what we are hearing about what's happened with fbi
director mccabe, on the fbi handling of the email investigation. one of the persons in the air, the congress from illinois, saying that that is exactly what the republicans have focused on so far. now, when i had a chance to catch up with some republicans, they are not disputing that at all, that that's been the focus of "today's" hearing. but also saying they are not trying to discredit the fbi or robert mueller. this is what mark meadows conservative congressman told me earlier about committee's hearing today with fbi andy mccabe, said there is nothing wrong with what we are doing. take a listen. >> there is not a concern in terms of trying to discredit the special prosecutor that has been not only established but continues to investigate. so robert mueller is not a subject of our investigation. >> how would you react if the president took steps to get rid of robert mueller? >> he's not. i talked to the president. he's not. >> reporter: so some confidence
there he's not going to take steps to fire robert mueller even as democrats are sounding the alarms that he very much could. but clearly though, brooke, interesting that this hearing today focusing on the clinton email investigation, the republicans concerns that it was not handled properly by the fbi, and we are told that this is probably the beginning of this new investigation looking into the clinton email inquiry. the first witness andy mccabe behind closed doors. there will be others as republicans look to go down this route come 2018. brooke? >> manu, thank you. more on that warning, senate intelligence committee, senator mark warren, he is calling on congress to draw a line in the sand in the president even attempts to oust robert mueller. >> i believe it is up to every member of this institution, republican or democrat, to make a clear and unambiguous statement that any attempt by this president to remove special
counsel mueller from his position or to pardon key witnesses in any effort to shield them from accountability o or shut down the investigation would be a gross abuse of power and a flagrant violation of executive branch responsibilities and authorities. >> let's start there. i have cnn national security analyst shawn turner and asha gap a. former fbi special agent. so welcome to both of you. shawn, i mean, adding onto what senator warner had said, he's also told cnn he's actually worried the president could fire mueller next week when members are home for recess. the white house you heard mark meadows in that sound bite, also the president himself has said, no, no, no, i'm not going to fire mueller. but do the concerns hold water in your opinion or is this just a little too precautiony?
>> i think it's appropriate response what they are saying with republican side with regard to this idea that there are biased individuals who are kind of in robert mueller's sphere. i think there is also the concern here that simply by raising the idea that the president might decide to fire bob mueller, they are taking a risk here. look, this conversation about whether or not bob mueller is being fair and unbiased is a conversation not helpful to this investigation. what we really need for everyone on both sides to do is come take a step back and allow robert mueller to do the investigation. and to kind of cease with this idea that you have to come out in front of whatever findings to preemptively layout your precision that you could say the findings were legitimate or not.
so i think the strategy is the right strategy in response to what the democrats are saying, i also think there is a risk associated with it. >> so the concerns, the risks, this has all been swirling, as we all know the white house team is getting ready to meet with bob mueller himself in the next couple of days. what will happen? what are your expectations? >> yeah, well, i think the white house has given the president a lot of assurances that this investigation might be over by christmas time, that mueller is going to clear him. so i think if that's what they are expecting, they'll be dispointsed. mueller is still clearly in the middle of an investigation, and he's not going to give this kind of information, he's not going to give a grand theory of the case and tell them who is being investigated and clear the president. the reason why is we need to look back to the big misstep that comey made that he announced he had closed the
investigation on hillary clinton. that creates a huge burden that if you give someone that information, even if it's true at that moment, in ha ongoing investigation, things can change at any time. and it will complicate everything. so, you know, they are clearly in communication. he's been asking the white house for documents and such. but i don't think that mueller is going to give them a lot of the information that they may want from him. >> okay. be curious to see how the president reacts to that. but i digress. you have republicans now who are taking this a step further in a powerful exchange with my colleague, congressman says he believes there was a plot within the fbi to prevent donald trump from becoming president. watch this. >> you say you believe there was a lot in the fbi to prevent donald trump from genebecoming
president. if that's true, was this knots the worst plot ever? days before opened up the investigation into the hillary clinton emails. >> you have to remember, he opened it after he went public with something that had been done, after he made the decision, after peter strzok changed from criminal standard to a noncriminal t after all that, remember the context, when mr. comey does that, everybody thought clinton would do this, with the eammails back and fort >> strzok was on ts team, we don't know if he was the one who actually changed it. again, i say to you you are suggesting part of this plot to keep donald trump from becoming president included james comey reopening the investigation of hillary clinton? >> i'm just saying he reopened it a few weeks before the election. >> wouldn't that be a lousy way
to plot defeating donald trump? >> well, so, back in october before the election you guys didn't like james comey, now you like him. i don't get the point. >> it's not whether i like him or not. >> focus on the text messages, was james comey part of a plot to keep donald trump from becoming president? we'll find out. all i know the text message from peter strzok to page points to that what took the place. >> you think james comey was part of it. >> we'll find out. >> if that's true, why then did he come out again, and reopen the investigation of hillary clinton's emails and never tell us before the election about the investigation into alleged trump collusion, if he was trying to keep donald trump from getting elected, don't you think he might tell voters that? >> we'll have to find out.
>> shawn, you get all of that? >> brooke, on so many levels, that discussion is both insulting and disrespectful to men and women of the fbi. you know what i this i nk is re interesting there is talk of misinformation and russian's attempts to do that. i don't think there was a coordinated plot or conspiracy on the part of government officials to prevent dpruonald trump from becoming president. but what he does know by putting something out there, by saying things like we'll see, he does know for some people they'll hear that and they'll say to themselves well i guess it's possible. and that is just kind of this irresponsible use of information or misinformation that continues to fuel this kind of circus
atmosphere. >> just like it's possible like i could wake up tomorrow and look up at the sky and it's green, you know, it's possible, but, come on now. asha, close this out. you are former fbi. >> well, you know, if there were a conspiracy in the fbi, it would require about 50 forms, five levels of approval, you know, three different back and forth between the fbi and doj. this is how a bureaucracy works. and people in the government know that better than anyone. and as john berman said, i think he nailed it yesterday, if this was the plot at the highest levels of government, then clearly they failed, and it didn't go anywhere. >> didn't work out so well. >> i think the question we need to ask what are they afraid of is going to come out of this investigation that they go to such extremes to distract from
it. >> yes. thank you so much. john berman is excellent. hero many of a day. thank you so much. coming up we'll talk about the defection from the dmz zone, another north korean soldier makes a dash across the borders on earth. how did he do it? and what might this mean for tensions on the peninsula? also puts the state house in limbo in virginia. what's next? actually has a couple of film canisters and picking a name out of a bowl. not making this up. hey julie, i know today's critical, but i really need...
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soldier in late teens or early 20s gambles with his life. across the borders, second heavily guarded in two months. paula hancock reports from seoul. >> reporter: this was last month. a north korean soldier ran for his life across the border between north and south korea. shot several times critically injured but he survived. thursday another north korean soldier making the rare dash against the dmz one of the most heavily militaried borders on earth. this is late 20s, low ranking and in custody being questioned. hour and a half later south korean soldiers fired warning shots as sold frers the north approached the military demarcation line looking for the defect tore. shots from the north shortly
after. served along the border. wrote a book on experience describing the escape as gambling with his life. looking back at his defection, he described eight guard posts before reaching the border. >> translator: at the fourth guard post, an ant couldn't even go over. i was electric kated and later learned 10,000 volts. i was lucky to survive. despite the risks, lots have defeated. compared that to four. for the soldiers that didn't prevent the defection they would be punished and replaced. >> thank you. this nearly defeated soldier will be questioned, evaluated,
authorities may seek reasons for his life in north korea. so with me now, barbara, former beijing bureau chief for the los angeles times. barbara, so nice to meet you. i cannot get over the fact that in less than, what's it been, two months, talking about these two defections. prior to that time there had been four in five years. what's going on? >> well, it's really crazy. we have never seen this kind of action across the dmz before. and i would just guess it's a sign of how desperate these soldiers are, because they are, as your last interviewee said, gambling with their lives, a very high risk of being shot. >> i was recently in south korea and we took this black hawk helicopter and watching the sunset over from above. the beautiful mountains that is north korea. and i couldn't help but think of the hell that lies be night.
what is life like for north koreans and these soldiers? >> very hungry. we keep hearing about how much they are investing in their military. but that is going into nuclear mass destruction. the rank and file soldiers are not well-fed. and that's what's a parent in this case. i've spoken to many north koreans, like north korean mom's. >> who say what? >> they are terrified whether their sons go into the military. because they are in for ten years and often come out half star inc. starving if they don't die. they have tuberculosis, hepatitis. and this soldier that defected in november has been -- >> pictures of the parasites that have been found within his belly. and you would think these soldiers would be the stronger of maybe the bunch in north korea. and clearly that's not
necessarily the case. what happens with this north korea now that he has defeated to south korea? medical evacuations. welcome to 2017. what is that? >> exactly. south korea has a whole program in place for north korean defectors. first, they are interrogated for, in this case probably several months. >> what kinds of questions? >> where are you from? what was your unit? everything from food to military. i think a lot of questions about what the conditions are like in the military. and also a lot of questions to determine if they are real. they are always worried about in filtrateors posing as defectors, your home town, names of streets, ac cents, there have been some. and they have a program called hanawan, they teach them how to use a cell phone, bank account,
and these people are like modern day rip van rin cell. they have a lot of reeducation to do. >> two defections in two months, do you think some howl despite the propaganda, word travels back that someone tried this and pulled it off and i want to escape this as well? >> definitely. because even though north korea television and radio is totally controlled, people listen illegally. they get broadcasts from south korea. and there is word of mouth. north korea is smart people they talk to each other and know what's going on. >> pleasure to meet you. thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up here, a tie race in the state of virginia creates this unbelievable scenario where the winner will be decided by picking a name out of a bowl. and listen to this, that may not be the end of the story. we'll explain next. i've been thinking. think of all the things that think these days. businesses are thinking.
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all right. so we wanted to stop and pause and listen to the president here. let's listen. >> i'm heading over right now to walter reed medical center to say hi. i'll be coming back after that. i'll be there for a while. but we are going to wish them a merry christmas and happy new year. love those people. thank you. >> we love walter reed for
everything they do for our wounded servicemen and women. but to jeff zeleny we go, our senior white house correspondent, you can hear them shouting questions, the press, a big day, and still cr tomorrow. pretty short and sweet. >> it was, brooke. we tried to ask questions about the u.n. about so many things this white house is facing. and the president heard them all, of course, but he makes the decision when he answers them and does not. one thing we are still waiting to hear is there ha year end news conference as must presidents has done. time is it running out before he heads to florida for holiday vacation. so if that will happen, that likely had happen tomorrow. but he is visiting walter reed right now which of course is on the northern side of washington, just a couple miles from here at the white house. he'll be visited the wounded warriors there. a visit that many presidents make, of course, and he is making this as well. he'll be back here in the white house in ha couple of hours and
again we'll see if he answers some of those questions in the hours and days to come before heading off to sunny florida, brooke. >> keep shouting them out. thanks so much. meantime, control of the virginia state house is in the end turns outcomi coming down t sheer look. here it says shelly won by a single vote against yancy. this one ballot has thrown the race into question. this is it t a judge threw it out declaring the vote on the ballot really belonged to the republican not the democrat. that left the race tied. so now it will be decided by a random draw next wednesday. ryan nobles is here with us to discuss this. you mean to tell me in 2017, this is like pulling a name out of a hat or coin toss to figure out the house in virginia? >> it's actually going to come
down to one of these, brooke. this is a film canister, if you haven't seen one of these in ha while, what we haven't used in ha couple of decades, they'll take the two names of the candidates, cut them up, then put one piece of paper with the name in one of these film canisters and put in another one, then they'll drop both of the canisters into a bowel, then with everybody watching, the media will be invited, they'll pull one of these canisters out, open up the top, and whoever names emerge, that candidate will be the next member of the house of delegates from the 94th district which is in virginia beach. this is just about this one particular seat in the house of delegates. right now only a one seat split after the election in november. so if the republican is the name that's pulled out, they'll continue to hold on to control of the house of delegates. if it's the democrats name that's pulled out, it will mean a 50/50 split. both sides are going to have to share power. it will really change the
landscape of the virginia government in a very big way. we should also point out right now, brooke,democrats are not happy with the decision by the three-judge panel, they believe it was too late in the game to make this decision. they are currently mulling a legal challenge. but i talked to a lot of election experts in virginia over the past 24 hours, they believe that this three-judge panel had the ultimate authority and actually virginia law states specifically this decision cannot be appealed. so everyone is planning for that draw that will take place next wednesday in richmond. brooke. >> first of all, point to whoever in the d.c. bureau found you a film canister in the year 2017 to use as a prop in your live shot. so kudos to them. number two, whenever they pull a name out of this canister and you have a winner and loser, can the loser challenge this? >> they can't challenge it, brooke, but the law does state that they could ask for another recount. so there is that possibility that if either either the
democrat name or republicans name that's pulled out, the other side could say let's count all these ballots again and go through the whole process all over again. theoretic will i it could end in a tie once again, then we draw the names once again, and it would come down to a 50/50 split. but neither the republicans or democrats are saying whether or not they will employ that option if it comes down to it, so we'll have to see what happens next wednesday. >> i feel for both of them. ryan nobles, thank you. >> thank you. coming up, deadline looming, can they avert a government shutdown before tomorrow. we'll take you back to washington and get a live report next.
sweeping tax reform here, republicans are at risk of an embarrassing failure of a government shutdown. if that happens. we are also getting word of a possible short-term solution. the house is expected to vote this afternoon on stop gap measure to let the parties have time to hash out the sticking points. this coming before the deadline of midnight tomorrow. as lawmakers scramble in the final 3 three hours. the president is tweeting this. house democrats want a shutdown who the holidays in order to detract from very popular tax cuts. don't let this happen. pass the cr today, continuing resolution, and keep our government open. so let's go to sunlen serfaty who is up on hill for us. what needs to happen? >> reporter: just a couple of hours away, brooke, from the house voting on short term cr, and that's certainly a big sign that the republican leadership in the house is confident that they have the votes they need to get this passed through today.
then of course it would go over to the senate, where they would potentially vote on it maybe as early as today. we don't have a time line for that yet. but the signs are certainly there that all of this is rt sta go to come to the. we have talked about in recent days how behind the scenes you had a lot of house republicans disagree go over what exactly was going to be included in this bill. a lot of competing priorities of what would be included. as of now the short-term cr spending bill that they are going to vote on would keep the government funded through january 19th and short-term fizz sa program that ex-paipires at end of the year. and includes money for children's program that expired. also need to deal with disaster relief bill in texas, florida, california, very concerned about that. going forward, though, potent