tv The Lead With Jake Tapper CNN May 23, 2018 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT
quick programming note before we go, flans sits down with cnn for a live town hall this evening. do not miss it. it airs at 9:00 eastern here on cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. thanks for being with me. go washington and "the lead" with jake tapper starts right now. from a minor rumor to a full blown conspiracy theory in five days. that must be some kind of record. "the lead" starts now. quote, we now call it spy-gate, unquote. the president trump is pushing a counter narrative and conspiracy theory attacking the fbi. just how far is he willing to go to defend himself? one of the president's targets, former intelligence director james clapper. he will join me for his response and how exactly the fbi was involved in the 2016 campaign. and a new danger for residents in hawaii. molten lava creating highly
explosive methane gas. latest on the eruption and new dangers ahead. welcome to "the lead," i'm jake tapper. we begin with the politics lead and president trump pushing a new conspiracy theory, one grounded more in suspicion and his desire for a counter narrative than based on established facts. tweeting, in one of his five tweets today on the subject of this confidential fbi source who spoke with three trump campaign members in 2016, quote, spygate could be one of the biggest political scandals in history and he went on to say this -- >> [ inaudible question ]. >> just look at the basics and you'll see, it looks like a very serious event. >> well, we have looked at the basics. what we know is this -- the fbi conducting a counter intelligence investigation in 2016 into whether russians were
trying to influence the election or what they were up to, sent a confidential fbi source to speak with members of the trump campaign. u.s. officials tell cnn that that source was not planted within the campaign. he wasn't a campaign staffer as far as we know. there is obviously a lot we don't know. but there is no evidence as of now that this was done for political purposes as the president is a -- alleging, the fbi was trying to figure out what the russians were up to and getting help from americans. now while we await this investigation by the journalists and the justice department inspector general, it is worth remembering while we're sticking to the facts and telling you what we know, president trump has no constraints since he simply makes stuff up. he frequently lies and has a long and well document conspiracy theories with no concrete evidence ever provided. for years he perpetuating the
myth that obama was not born in the united states and he saw thousands of muslims on tv celebrating 9/11 and he suggested ted cruz's father might have been involved in the assassination of jfk. and explained his popular vote lost by blaming three to five illegal votes and again zero evidence for this. he pushed a conspiracy theory that joe scar bro was involved in the tragic death of one of his staff members. zero evidence. and said that president obama had his wired tapped in trump tower and i could go on but this is just an hour show. and we shut get into the interference and whether anything was done improperly by law enforcement and those are guilty of whatever they are guilty. and the fbi is not above criticism and there needs to be an over sight of the intelligence agency. but that is not what the president is pushing forward.
he is trying to undermine the special counsel investigation. it is a fable in which he is the victim. and law enforcement officials are the bad guys. the president frequently seeks to undermine to look to uncover uncomfortable facts about him. this week, for example, 60 minutes leslie stall revealed that then candidate donald trump told her during an off camera conversation with him in the summer of 2016, stall said she asked donald trump why he continues to attack the press and according to her this was his response. >> he said, you know why i do it? i do it to discredit you all and to demean you all so when you write negative stories about me, no one will believe you. >> chilly, really. and yet wholly unsurprising and the president is now doing the same thing with special counsel robert mueller and the justice department and the fbi. and as this new counter narrative is born, one repeated already by the president's obedient supporters on the hill and his vas ills in conservative
media, we will continue for the truth. and jeff zeleny picks up on this issue from the white house. >> reporter: president trump coining a new phrase for an old conspiracy theory. >> we're now calling it spy-gate. you're calling it spy gate. >> and virtually no one is using that term except the president. >> reporter: he turned a false rumor no a conspiracy in short order and leaving the white house for a trip to new york he would not answer the questions about so-called spy gate. >> how could you call this spy gate? >> when asked for proof that his campaign was spied on, he said this -- >>al you have to do is look at the basics and you'll see, it looks like a very serious event. but we'll find out. >> reporter: but the president isn't waiting to find out. he's sparking a storm of self generated outrage on twitter. firing off these assertions and accusations today. saying, spy gate could be one of the biggest political scandals
in history. before resorting to his classic -- witch hunt, how he referred to robert mueller probe of russian interference in the 2016 election. >> no, we're not undercutting. we're cleaning everything up. this was a terrible situation. what i'm doing is a service to this country. and i did a great service to this country by firing james comey. >> reporter: history will offer the final judgment. but firing comey as fbi director led to the special counsel and the cloud of controversy hanging over the white house. he's repeatedly said his campaign was spied on when u.s. officials say a confidential intelligence source approached several members of his team who had already been in contact with suspected russian agents. >> if you look at clapper, he sort of admitted they had spies in the campaign yesterday, inadvertently but i hope it is not true but looks like it is. >> but that is not what james
clapper, director of intelligence in the obama administration said -- >> no they were not -- they were spying on -- a term i don't like, but on what the russians were doing and were they infiltrating trying to gain access and leverage and influence. >> reporter: the president suggesting the obama administration was behind it. a claim he softened today. >> i don't want to get into it yet but i'll tell you after we look at -- after we look at the proof, would he know? i would certainly hope not. >> reporter: now one question the president did not answer on the south lawn earlier today was does he have confidence in or does he plan to fire rod rosenstein. of course that is the deputy attorney general who is overseeing the entire russia investigation. but just a couple of hours ago at an event on long island about ms-1, rod rosenstein was sitting a few feet from the president talking about other matters like immigration and the president said -- nice job, rod but we still don't know if he has his
confidence. >> jeff zeleny at the white house. let's talk about it with the panel. jeffrey toobin, take a listen to the president's comments before departing the white house today. >> what i want is i want total transparency. this supercedes republicans and democrats. so what i want from rod, from the fbi, from everybody, we want transparency. >> what is your reaction? >> well, remember what he's asking for. he is asking for an investigation of the investigation of him and his campaign. there is a long tradition in this country that the white house stays out of the day-to-day investigation of the justice department and the fbi. but that tradition is especially strong when those investigations involve the president himself. but what -- what the president and his allies are doing is they are trying to investigate and disrupt mueller's and the fbi
investigation and because the facts of this case are somewhat complicated, the fact that he gets to denounce the investigation without most people understanding what is even going on is a tremendous advantage for him. >> amanda carpenter, i wonder if the erosion of norms is continuing as we keep saying, the president has long called for the justice department to investigate his political opponents and such. now he's calling for an investigation into the investigators and he's sharing information about this fbi confidential source with allies from capitol hill. no democrats, just republicans. don't republicans on capitol hill understand that these norms are being eroded and that means that a democratic president will then do them too. >> you would think. listen, spy-gate is a movie we've all seen before. it is a repeat of birtherism and a repeat of the whole idea of the rigged election and voter fraud, it is a repeat of the hun masking scandal and it is all of the same elements.
he's making things up and getting people to go along with it and this is different because capitol hill is going along with it, republicans and there is a cost. there is an asset used that has been outed. there may be more. they're having a meeting tomorrow where there is more information given to trump's allies on capitol hill. and if that information leaks, and more assets are damaged, they are now responsible for it and i think now there is a push to include democrats because if there are only republicans, they can't blame it on leaking because they want the information to get out. i think trump is damaging the fbi and now other people are helping him do it and using the leverage of government and that is what is different. >> take a listen, nina, to current secretary of state mike pompeo on capitol hill being asked about the so-called deep state, this unnamed group -- the borg of intelligence officials that conspire against heroes like donald trump.
here is mike pompeo on the deep state. >> i don't believe there is a deep state at the state department. >> that is your experience also when you interact with colleagues at the fbi and the department of justice as well? >> yes. there are always exceptions to every rule. i never led an organization that didn't have bad actors. >> but in general you're confident that the members of the various agencies are honoring oaths to the united states constitution. >> yeah, in general, yes, sir. >> that is an interesting way to respond. >> he seemed very uncomfortable there. because he's seen -- a man that talks about a movie, he's seen this time and time again once you undercut the president or go against the narrative he's put out there, you're chastised by the president for doing that, which is wrong. the republicans will have a big responsibility and i know that director comey put out his tweet in saying to the republicans what, will you tell your grandchildren, it is your obligation at some point, especially moments like this, is bigger than your party, it is really about america. >> let me read that quote.
here is how james comey responded to the president's claims. quote, facts matter. the fbi's use of confidential human sources and term is tightly regulated and essential to protecting the country. attacks on fbi and lying about the work will do lasting damage to our country and how will republicans explain this to their grandchildren. what do you think? >> well that depends on who wins this fight. and i want to go back to the questions by ted lieu and the request -- the question is fine but saying do you believe in the president's conspiracy theory and that is a wasteful question and if you asked him if the same thing happened today and you had foreign knowledge of a investigation. ask questions like that, that get to the heart of the matter because there are so many things that the administration needs to be pinned down like what is their position on the magnitsky act and where are they in
sanctions. move the ball there rather than sucked into the conspiracy theories. >> and jeffrey toobin, the meeting taking place tomorrow with the chairman of the house intelligence committee, devin nunes and his colleague trey gowdy, briefed on this confidential source and democrats despite objection are not being invited to this meeting. chuck schumer tweeted today nancy pelosi and i will send a letter to rod rosenstein and director wray to request they reconsider holding a meeting and if they do so in a bipartisan fashion with the gang of eight. norm hail the way this is done is the senator alluded to is there are eight members of congress, four from the house and four from the senate and four republicans and democrats and they are the gang of eight. they are briefed on intelligence matters. this is a real deviation from the norm to have just two republican members of congress. >> well, this is a violation of so many norms. of conduct both at the justice
department and in terms of congress. the justice department does not -- as a rule, turn over information about pending investigations. especially regarding confidential informants. but that norm is going away. but when they do interact with congress, traditionally it is with bipartisan groups. democrats and republicans. here you have trump's -- the president's representatives dealing exclusively with the president's party in congress in an effort to discredit the fbi and the justice department. it just doesn't happen. hasn't happened previous live but we're in a different world now. >> what world are we in, nina? >> the trump zone. talk about the twilight zone, we are in the trump zone. the only thing is there no one to tell us this is artificial but this is real and to the point that jeffrey made about the violation of the norms. this is what trump specialized
in, a violation of the norms. he feeds off of a violation of the norms. and that is why congress cannot abdicate the responsibility because they hold the power. how far will they let this go. >> there is a lost talk of whether we're in a constitutional crisis and everyone agrees the norms are destroyed so what will anybody do about it? republicans won't do anything. that is over. >> obviously. >> the democrats could do more than write the letters. you have tools when i was on the hill we used the tools to force votes, to hold nominees, you have things that you could do and they're doing nothing. just wringing their hands, writing their letters, does anybody care or fight for oversight. it appears no. republican and democrat alike. >> stick around. the president has called him the, quote, world's dumbest former intelligence head. he's also called him a liar. what does retired general james clapper have to say about
becoming the president's punch line. clapper will join me next. stay with me. pital? what's critical thinking like? a basketball costs $14. what's team spirit worth? (cheers) what's it worth to talk to your mom? what's the value of a walk in the woods? the value of capital is to create, not just wealth, but things that matter. morgan stanley
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welcome back. president trump and his allies pushing a narrative unproven so far that the intelligence community under president obama planted political spies to politically spy on his campaign. intelligence officials including the former director of national intelligence, retired general james clapper are denying what he is suggesting. >> they were spying on -- a term i don't particularly like, but on what the russians were doing. trying to understand were the russians infiltrating and trying to gain access and leverage and influence. >> and so why doesn't he like that? he should be happy -- >> he should be. >> that is general clapper on the view and president trump firing back, no james clapper, i'm not lappy and it would be a scandal to boot and even
clapper, who has the problem of lying a lot, used the word "spy" when describing illegal activities. let us take a second and general clapper has served this country for nearly six decades as a marine and then in the air force rising to the rank of a three star lieutenant general and served as director of the defense intelligence agency from 1991 to 95 and director of national intelligence in 2010 which he oversaw 16 different agencies. joining me now is retired general james clapper and he is out with a new book titled "facts and fears" hard truths from a life and intelligence. general clapper, thanks for being here. i want to get your response to what president trump had to say about you today. >> if you look at clapper, he sort of admitted they had spies in the campaign yesterday. inadvertently. but i hope it is not true. but it looks like it is.
>> did the intelligence community spy on president trump and his campaign. >> , we did not. and that is -- that is a distortion of what i said. i had an aversion to the use of the term and thought i made that clear. and the important thing is here, what was this all about. well what it was about was trying to determine what the russians were doing, were they trying to gain access, infiltrate political campaign. it didn't matter what the -- which campaign. and had nothing to do with spying on the campaign and it was about the russians which is what we should all be concerned about, to include trump. >> and to be fair, whoever the confidential sources were and we know of one of them and i don't know if there were others but trying to find out not just what the russians were doing, but what any members of the trump team might have been doing with the russians too, right? >> well, my understanding -- and again i should point out that i did not know about this con tem
orainusually -- >> the fbi was doing this on its own. >> which is the standard procedure. i never knew the identity of informants in the fbi, nor should so i'm sure this was -- and there is very strict rules and protocol for using informants in any circumstance. and especially one like this. and it appeared to me from what i read, now that the individual has been exposed and some parts of the media, but this is a very benign thing that where he engaged directly with two or three people about -- and again trying to glean insight into what might the russians be doing to gain access to the campaign. >> allies of the president including former campaign staffer michael caputo and former house speaker newt gingrich have been brutal attacking you. take a listen. >> i'll tell you, when we finally find out the truth about this, director clapper and the rest of them are going to be wearing some orange suits.
>> i've known jim clapper for years. i'm astounded how bad he looks and how dishonest and incompetent he looks. >> he was the director of national intelligence, what do you think he was in charge of doing? he was in charge of spying. >> your response? >> well, i sure hope i get to go to the assisted living wing with an orange suit i guess. i don't know what -- >> what do you make when they suggest you've committed a crime. >> i take umbrage with that. i didn't commit a crime. i was trying to explain my understanding of what this informant was doing. and i wasn't spying on the campaign. i take exception to it. and i don't particularly want to dig nyit by talking about it too much. >> caputo said he told the intelligence committee house and senate and mueller's team that a second individual who worked for
the u.s. government approached a friend of his and offered up hillary clinton's missing e-mails. were there other individuals poking and prodding members of the trump team, trying to find out if they were getting mails or other information from the russians? >> well, there could have been. i don't know what this is about and i don't -- i know what mr. caputo was referring to. the thein -- the inference was there was another individual but i'm not awir -- aware of that. >> do you know of -- >> i'm not aware of -- i wasn't aware of the first one. and nor should i have been. i didn't monitor informants in the fbi and -- or their identity or -- i just -- that is not something i would do. >> you have a book out just came
out yesterday, doing quite well. in the book you write, quote, of course the russian effort affected the out come of the election, surprising even themselves, they, the russians, swung the election to a trump win to conclude otherwise stretches logic and common sense and cred you'llity to the breaking point. and this is more you stated than when you were director of intelligence and you put out that report -- you avoided maked a conclusion one way or the other about whether or not it had an impact. you have learned more information or is this just you speaking as a private individual. >> to be clear, we did not -- and that was deliberate, did not make nay sesment -- make any as on the meddling of the outcome of the election. that wasn't in our charter authority or capability to do. but that -- since i became the private citizen knowing what i know of what the russians did, the massive effort they
undertook and the variety of means that they used and the number of millions and millions of voters they got to, to me it stretches credulity and to not think they didn't swing the election and it turns out less than 80,000 votes in three states. so that is what i would call an informed opinion. i don't have the imperial evidence to go with it. but it is thinking about it and seeing and understanding better since i left the government that the full magnitude of what they did, in my mind and in my opinion, they did affect the election. >> what do you make of president trump last night and this morning put out this conspiracy theory that there were spies sent in there from the obama administration to spy on his campaign politically, that this is a horrific crime that has been -- that occurred. he's the victim of it all. as somebody who was director of national intelligence while this
counter intelligence investigation into the trump team was going on, how do you assess what he is saying? >> well i think he's deliberately spinning the narrative that whereby he's a victim of the deep state spying on him or spying on the campaign. which is -- which is not the case. what we're concerned about and what particularly the fbi but everybody else -- particularly the fisch was -- the fbi was concerned about the russians and what they were doing to penetrate or influence the campaign. for me, they were simply doing their jobs. what we expect them to do. >> does it offend you when the president says these things? >> um, yes, it does. it doesn't surprise me any longer. it is offensive. >> general clapper, good luck with your book. and thanks again for coming by. we appreciate it. >> thanks, jake. a lot to digest. our panel is back with the reaction to general clapper.
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we are back and continuing the conversation with my political panel. so you remarked that general clapper seems -- >> heavy. >> tired and -- >> very heavy. >> this is all weighing on him. >> it is. and it issal right to disagree on issues but when you start calling people names and wearing orange suits and all of that, that is heavy and for a man who dedicated his life to this country, agree or disagree on his stances, but to allow those -- that narrative at him and he just seemed very heavy in that interview in terms of really trying to explain what he was trying to say and all of the accusations coming from the president doesn't help us with the healing process. it is just wrong.
to see him in that emotional state did something to me. >> and it is true. when you see whether it is john brennan the former cia director or michael hayden, bush's director, whether you see general clapper, there are a lot of people who have devoted lives to national security and intelligence with records that are certainly worth analyzing and criticizing, whatever, but who seem exhausted about president trump. >> it is tough. and they need to find some get up and go and muster up some energy to defend their lives work. that interview, he wasn't clear. they need to me much clear. people have legitimate questions of why this investigation was started because they don't understand. i don't think it is that hard to figure out. there is questionable contacts with foreign nationals and questionable trips to moscow and they had supreme look into it and decided to start the investigation on july 31st. why is that so hard for them to explain? because they need to do it.
this is a fight in the media, and the public arena and you will get destroyed by conspiracy theories and nonsense if you can't get your message out. so if they can't do it, you need to find someone in the intelligence community with experience that can make them a face and make the round because you are losing this fight. >> one of the reasons i think it is difficult for intelligence officials, former or current, to talk about this, is that it deals with confidential informants and other sources and methods -- >> but in the public arena, the timeline is out there from the public media. >> we know george papadapoulos had a conversation with someone with ties to the kremlin while working for trump in spring of 2016 and he suggested he knew something about hillary clinton's e-mails and papadapoulos had a conversation with a australian diplomat about that. >> while he was drunk.
>> and a dangle of sorts by someone -- talking about how russians government lawyer had dirt on hillary clinton. we know all of this. >> and that the campaign's propensity to use that from a foreign country, that becomes the issue. but to -- maybe it is somebody more detached from the intelligence community that doesn't have to be so guarded. because they are trying to protect sensitive information. maybe somebody else that is the person who can explain this in layman's terms why all of this is important. even beyond russia, it is to protect this country. >> and amanda, as you know, one of the other reasons this gets swirled in a mess of conspiracy theories and more is because there are legitimate things to criticize the fbi about. and the inspector general of the fbi put -- or of the doj put out a very scathing report on andrew mccabe who was james comey's number two. james comey has this book, a lot of people found decisions and things he wrote about in the book to be worth controversy and
worth questioning if not attacking itself. >> i think it is legitimate. the fbi did become politicized during the last election. i think for a lot of reasons comey was in a box and he could do no right but somebody needs to explain why they made the decisions they did. don't just put it in a book and say i answered the questions, because this is an hour to hour fight in the media and it matters. somebody needs to be willing to fight for the truth and the integrity of the agencies. if there is mistakes made, so be it. we deserve to know what happened. >> and they say people make mistakes and this intense political environment and kill people at all costs, do anything to win, it makes it hard for people to be genuine in that way. but you're right, we have -- somebody has to muster up that courage to be genuine. >> stick around. a live look at the molten hot lava flow in hawaii where the looming threat grows by the minute. that story coming up.
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politics lead. new allegations about the 2016 presidential campaign, president trump's former campaign adviser michael caputo said during the campaign a government contractor told him the u.s. intelligence community had hillary clinton's deleted e-mails and that person, speak through an intermediary suggested that the trump campaign should try to get their hands on them and now he believers the entire conversation was maybe part of a government conspiracy to entrap trump allies and team members. we'll talk to caputo in a second. but first sarah murray joins me. and this all started with a conversation about clinton's e-mails at the kentucky derby of all places. how did it lead to everything else that came from there. >> so now we're in this place where -- was it a government conspiracy, was innocuous cocktail chatter but there is a kentucky derby party in may of 2016 and guy said he's about to go work for the trump campaign and his name is kurt bell and
strikes up a conversation and said if you are interested in opposition research on hillary clinton you should go poke around the u.s. intelligence community because there are e-mails going around that appear to be part of hillary clinton's deleted e-mails but at any rate, they show some kind of sort of shady activity on the part of hillary clinton. there seems to be some alleged pay to play situation between the state department and top aides there. when hillary clinton was se secretary of state and some of the family foundation. so bell goes to his friend michael caputo, who we will talk to, working for the trump campaign and said this seems interesting and they go back and forth and decided he's not going to pursue talking to the government contract or or the e-mails because he's concerned woe wind up with classified information on his hands and he's not allowed to have access to and he could get into legal trouble. but apparently this has urked mr. caputo for quite sometime. he told the house intelligence
committee about it when he testified before them and told mueller team when he met before them and then when there were other media reports just recently that an fbi confidential source had approached trump campaign advisers previously, caputo got to thinking, maybe this i all part of a big government conspiracy. maybe someone was trying to entrap trump campaign aides into trying to get ahold of this classified information. but i will tell you that i also spoke to the government contractor who said this is insanity. this person said, look, i was just having a conversation at a cocktail party, i was essentially telling them, here is where to look and go do your own homework. i didn't have any possession of these e-mails. i can't verify that anything i had seen was actually valid. and so that is where we are. >> sayah murray, thank you. and now we'll talk to michael caputo. good to see you as always. other than the conversation with the contractor, do you have any evidence that the government was
conspiring against you or is this just a strong suspicion? >> i have a strong suspicion on this and another approach that -- that have been bothering me for quite sometime. and also i think it is important to say that this former government contractor who was in the national security arena had said to kurt bell that he actually saw documents that indicated that these e-mails were in the hands of the nsa. so from my perspective, nowa days he's more reticent to talk about this than in may of 2016 end came back to kurt bell in late july of 2016 and remind him the e-mails were in the hands of the national security agency. so maybe what he's saying now isn't what he said two years ago and you're right it bothered me for two years but what has to happen here i believe is that this investigation that the president asked for and received at the department of justice,
where they're going to look into what kind of approaches came from the law enforcement and national security arena to the trump campaign, i would like to talk to them. i think that government contractor should talk to them as well. let's see how he recalls things when he is sitting at doj. >> so michael, you made a reference to a second approach. is that something you are prepared to talk about right now or no? >> no, i'm not. and again, i'm thanking god that the president has called for this investigation and the doj agreed to do so because i would love to talk about that second approach. i would -- i got to tell you, it is something -- i don't want to talk about because it was discussed in my meeting with the mueller investigators. the problem with that approach in early may from the former government contractor in the national security arena, it always bugged me for two years. it didn't make any sense to me. but when i told investigators in the house and the senate and with the mueller team about it, they didn't seem to be interested.
that to me indicated that it was something i should be interested in. the problem with this second approach is it is something discussed at length with the mueller investigation. and because of that, i don't think i should discuss it at length on television but i'm eager to tell the department of justice because frankly i don't think the mueller investigation is being straight up about it. >> and you just -- to play devil's advocate, you told to the investigation in the house and intelligence committee which is headed up by a strong ally of president trump, i think this is fair to say, devin nunes, but you say they didn't follow up on it either. but because they didn't follow up on it, you think that means they already knew about it? am i taking it the right way? >> no. no, actually i came -- i'll explain. it you are talking about the early may approach from the former government contractor, i did not tell the house intelligence committee until after my hearing because i
recalled later and gave the information to an individual investigator and not the committee itself. the fact that he wasn't interested, we had a brief meeting in the office when i was reviewing my testimony and i said, i wasn't completely responsible because this happened. and he said, thank you very much and took the information. but they didn't do anything about. it the reason why i was concerned is because my friend the intermediary never got a call from any investigator at any investigation in the congress or from the mueller people and to me that just stunk up to high heaven. >> and we e got a call from sarah murray. and stay in touch, we'll find out more about this. and coming up next, a live look at the lava flow in hawaii that is getting more dangerous by the minute. that is next. stay with us. how is it? perfect! whos this? you don't always use it to share something. he's doing it! but when it matters most, you count on tracfone to keep you connected, for less. can you send that to me? yeah. our smartphone plan gives you talk, text and data with
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we're back with the national lead. unbelievable images from hawaii. more lava spewing across the big island with ash and toxic gases. you're look now at blue flames caused by highly explosive methane gas, a by product of the eruption and described as complete and total destruction. stephanie elum is live on the ground in hawaii. are residents likely to see any relief any time soon? >> reporter: that is the thing, jake and that is the hard people for the people living through this, there is no end in sight. it is sort of that groundhog day effect of each day waking up and for many of the residents who own homes in the leilani estates, running in to check on the property and make sure their homes are still there. we just went inside of the area again today and when you look at that -- those crevices that have been created by the moving
ground, you could see they start with the small cracks and then they get so big, it looks like you could fit a small car inside. some of those creeping closer to homes and in some places they are filling up with lava. one resident was shooting the lava with her phone just -- just behind her one acre lot which is creeping down the road. this is what they're dealing with inside of there and it is eerily quiet. everything is a sickly yellow brown around the -- all of the vegetation that you would a -- associate of hawaii being the green and everything is a weird yellow brown and so it is a precarious situation. >> you talk about the gas vapors. how is the air quality generally? >> in general, it is something that you have to watch day in and day out. because the winds can change direction. we benefit from the trade winds here on this part of hawaii. they were great yesterday. but i'm look behind me at the plume and it is hard to see because it is just looking like
it is white when you look through the camera, but when i look at it now i could see they are lingering over the area and that could be a problem for the people who are still going in and out, the residents are alouisvilled to g -- the residents are allowed to do that but that is the concern. the air quality and it is making it hard for the residents as they deal with this problem that doesn't seem to have an end. >> stephanie elum in hawaii. could you watch the live stream of this natural disaster and this lava flow on cnn.com. cnn has just learn the president's son-in-law jared kushner sat down with special counsel mueller team for a second time and an exclusive interview with kushner's attorney next in "the situation room." stay tuned. ught much of it at all. people said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. they thought someday it could become fuel
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happening now, breaking news, meeting with mueller. even as he finally regains his security clearance, the president's senior adviser and son-in-law jared kushner meets with the special counsel and is questioned for seven hours. conspiracy and chief. president trump exceeds all bounds in attacking law enforcement institutions insisting he's the victim of a conspiracy to spy on his campaign. new warnings about the president's extreme rhetoric. power of lava. hawaii's big island faces clouds of poison gas and rivers of red hot lava. as the volcano poses a great threat to a power plant. we'll take you there live. and fall --