tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN June 15, 2018 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
jeff zeleny. markets shrugging it off for now. trump voters, we will see. have a great and safe weekend. "ac 360," with anderson begins right now. i am wolf blitzer sitting in for anderson. new reporting on how the president might deal with them and how others can be out of his control. we begin with paul manafort. he sits in jail tonight. marks the first time anyone associated with the trump campaign has landed behind bars. bail was revoked and the charges against him are growing. then, michael cohen, the president's personal attorney. signaling an openness to cooperating with the feds and new details tonight about what
authorities have seized as part of this investigation. all of this comes on top of new york state suing mr. trump's charity. a lot of legal woes. we are also learning how the president might fight back. as to the question of obstructive of justice that some think the team is pursuing. how the president's legal team now plans to use the hillary clinton e-mail investigation as part of his defense. rudy giuliani is dangling the possibility of a pardon for him and for others. the president spoke out on his former campaign chairman on the white house lawn. and the art of just plain false. >> i feel badly about a lot of it. it is unfair. manafort has nothing to do with
our campaign. i feel badly about it. they went back 12 years, to get things 12 years ago. paul manafort worked for me a short period of time. 4 49 days. >> keeping them honest none of that is true. he served during the convention. he was and is a big deal. throughout the hour we will be talking about all assets of the president's complicated legal tangle. let's begin with the biggest. paul manafort's day and trip to jail. why did the federal judge in this specific case feel the feed to send him to jail, a federal
prison today. >> manafort is facing two trials. wearing two ankle bracelets and under house arrest. he has been trying to reach out to witnesses in this case and influence with them and tamper with testimony. the judge says i have no appetite for this. this is not middle school and i can't take his cell phone. she made the decision that he will be spending a few months behind bars as he awaits trial. >> that is what he is doing right now. awaiting trial. we are going to show you more presidential untruths and throughout the hour we will be talking about all aspects of this case. let's get some more right now on
manafort's bail revocation and a possible pardon for it. the president used a phrase that he often does on people he does wind up pardoning, very unfair. we tweeted this statement. and all of the others. very unfair. let's get some perspective from jeffrey toobin and allen dershowitz. thanks for joining us. jeff you were inside that federal court today, president trump tweeted that it was very unfair. what's unfair about jailing someone who allegedly committed a crime who was out on bail.
>> paul manafort walked in that courtroom not knowing if he will be walking out. and what the prosecution said was he was instructed as a, in his original bail application, you cannot commit more crimes while you are out on bail. he has now been indicted for witness tampering, while he was out on bail, contacting these witnesses and trying to get them to tell a false story and he has been locked up. it changes the complexion of the trial coming up. hugely different to be waiting in prison to go to trial and to be waiting in the luxury apartment in alexandria, virginia where he has been. and the pressure is going to ratchet up enormously. >> alan did he , could that be
interpreted potentially as inappropriate in not illegal or unethical, a signal to potential subjects and witnesses? >> no. he has a perfect right as trump's lawyer to assert his belief that manafort should be pardoned. my own view is it is unfair for manafort to join thousands of others sitting in jail with the presumption of innocence. we don't know. when we put people in jail, poor or rich without a trial, without a hearing. based on a judge's conclusion. i agree with rudy giuliani. you don't put people in jail when they talk to witnesses.
you put people in jail when they threaten witnesses. they can let him stay at home. it is punitive and designed to put pressure on manafort and it may very well work. the reason we get 98% conviction rates in some part of the country is because we put people in jail prior to trial and threaten them with 20, 30 year sentences. and say if they cooperate, plead, thplea plead, they will be out in months. we should be aware of this in previous cases. as a nonpartisan civil libertarian, i am outrage at the judge's decision to put him in jail. >> she is a highly respected federal judge, what do you think? >> you can't make up the facts about what is going on here.
she didn't just conclusory, it wasn't a conclusory judgment of hers. she says the grand jury has indicted him for witness tampering. that is a judgment of a grand jury. it was a factual matter that the grand jury indicted him and that is the basis -- >> that -- >> let me finish. that is the basis for the fact that she revoked his bail. it was a factual that he had been indicted. >> it is not a factual matter that he did it. who could persuade them to indict you or me or wolf based on no evidence. the grand jury is a meaningless collection of 23 pieces of furniture that are moved around
by prosecutors. for you to look at the indictment and say that is a factual conclusion, defies reality. nothing should turn on a grand jury indictment. it brings the case to trial. judges instruct the jury ignore the indictment. and the indictment is not a way of shifting the presumption of innocence. he should not be in prison based on allegations. if you want to have a meaningful trial, a hearing, that is one thing. to base it on an indictment is a meaningless prosecutorial tool. >> the grand jury has been part of the american legal system for 200 years. my view is the same laws that
apply to everyone else should apply to paul manafort. there are bail laws that say you shouldn't commit crime and there are probable cause standards, all judge jackson did was apply the law that applies to everyone else to paul manafort, and that is all you can ask. >> everybody hold on. hold on alan, we have a lot more to discuss. i want to get your take on a new strategy the president's team is using. gloria borger, she has the scoop. you are going to hear from her. stick around. also ahead, a leading evangelical christian reacts to the attorney general using the bible to justify separating children from their parents at the southern border. this is important for people with asthma.
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there was no obstruction. and if you read the report, it says that. wait. what you'll really see is bias against me and tens of millions of my followers that is really a disgrace. >> again, the report does not exonerate the president on russia or obstruction of justice. however, there could be a reason what the president said beyond protesting our innocence. how that attack of the ig report could be used as part of a new strategy. how do they plan on shifting their strategy in response to this inspector general's report. >> i think they now intend to make the inspector general report the center piece of their strategy when dealing with the special counsel. and the thing they are going to
focus on is obstruction of justice. it was very tough on james comey and they are going to say look, we fired him for the same reasons that were outlined in the inspector general's report. therefore there can't be obstruction of justice because we are doing it for the right reasons. forgetting that the president himself talked about the russia thing when interviewed by lester holt. but they are still going to make the claim. >> i understand the president's lawyers, they plan to argue this entire russia investigation has been politically biased ba usec of that, is that right? >> peter stroke is one of those people early on join the investigation. they take a look at that text and say wait a minute, the
people who, you heard the president talk about this today against me and tens of million of my followers. i spoke to one source who says this proves that there was a potential evidence, therefore it was invalid. >> the president's lawyers, they are going to be meeting with mueller's team fairly soon, what can you tell us about that? >> they are going say you have no reason to subpoena the president. they are going to make the argument that this is a corrupt investigation, and that since there was no obstruction, because there was every reason to fire comey, what could you want to talk to the president about? you have millions of pages of
documents, you have contemporaneous interviews with witnesses and therefore, since the president did nothing wrotening and this report proves it, no reason to talk to him. >> thanks very much. >> sure. >> let's get back to jeff toobin and alan dershowitz. does it give the president and his legal team justification to challenge a subpoena when it comes to obstruction of justice. >> it gives it some ammunition. the report does say there was a basis for firing comey and i don't think you are entitled to ask the president why he was engaged in an act which he was entitled to do under article two of the constitution. especially if he had justification. people have justification. what president trump might have done was use that should have
been fired. that is not the kind of inquiry that a criminal justice should be concerned with. i don't think the ig report is a vindication. but look, the team is making serious mistakes. i i i am outraged that rudy giuliani stated joe biden is a moron. when you have the president's lawyers getting involved in this kind of mudslinging and partisan politics t politics it undercuts the good points. comey says in his book, you don't have to subpoena the
subject of the investigation, because we have the evidence for. that the only reason we subpoena people is to see if they will tell the truth. >> you know, alan and the white house have been arguing from day one that the president can fire the fbi director for any reason, even if it is totally corrupt. similarly, they have been arguing that he can argue, that he can pardon everyone for whatever reason even if it is corrupt, and that is not true. no supreme court decision that says that. we always look at the motives of people's behavior. if president trump fired james
comey because he wanted to stop the russia investigation, that is illegal. if he is threatening, if he is using pardons to escape liability himself, that is a crime as well. there is not this idea that article two gives you the power to do anything for whatever reason is something that alan and the white house are just making up. >> all right. go ahead alan. >> first of all, i don't coordinate with the white house. >> i didn't say that. you are both wrong, independently. >> when they didn't charge george w. bush. stopping the investigation, and preventing weinberger from
pointing the finger at home. we have a clear precedent and you can't violate the precedent. how do you distinguish the george w. bush? >> the answer is it was january 20th, 1993. he did it as he was walking out the door. there was nothing to be done. he was the ex-president. that precedent is of no value at all. >> you can indict an ex-president. that is why gerald ford had to pardon richard nixon. that is no answer. you can't have a special law for donald trump. >> george h.w. bush. >> george h.w. bush. i'm sorry. >> if someone is an ex-president, it is a moot point
whether they abuse presidential power. the issue is why did donald trump, why did he fire james comey, the issue is why is he offering pardons or dangling the possibility of bpardons? it is to interfere with the administration of justice. presidents don't have that power. >> when the framers of the constitution debated the impeachment, they rejected explicitly the notion that you can impeach and remove a president. required a high crime and misdemeanor and treason or bribery and that hasn't occurred here. you can't start parsing motives. when you start asking why a president did anything, is it to sell more books, go down in
history, we can't start asking about the motives of president. we have to ask whether his act was justified under article 2 of the constiution. same thing with senators. you can't question senators or congressman. you can't question the motive of judges. we have immunity for all three branchs of the government. not surprising we have it for the president as well. >> quickly, jeffrey, you have the last word. >> richard nixon was about to be impeached and he resigned. he had the power to do both. to tell the fbi and to tell the cia what to do. he was forced out of office because he did it corruptly. >> is it hushed money? because he paid bribes? because he told his under-lings.
>> all right. an excellent legal debate as always. thank you so much to both of you. we will continue these conversations down the road. i promise. up next, more of what the president said today versus the fact. . get all the good stuff about tv without all the bad stuff. yes! you can still stream your favorite shows... yes! ...with no annual contract. wait, what? it's live tv. yes! with no satellites. what? and no bulky hardware. no bulky hardware! isn't that great news? yes! noooooo! no! noooo. try directv now for $10 a month for 3 months. more for your thing. that's our thing. visit directvnow.com the new united explorer card hooks me up. getting more for getting away. traveling lighter. getting settled. rewarded! learn more at theexplorercard.com
statements. keeping them honest, here is a look at the president's untruths followed by the facts. >> unfair situation. but the ig report totally exonerates. if you look at the results and the head investigator is saying we have to stop trump from becoming president. well trump became president. >> i hate the children being taken away. the democrats have to change their law. that is their law. >> quiet. quiet. that is the democrat's law. we can change it right now. >> you're the president. >> you need their votes. manafort has nothing to do with our campaign, but i feel badly about it. they went back 12 years to get things 12 years ago. paul manafort worked for me short period of time. 49 days? they have gone back 12 years to
find something. president obama lost crimea because president putin didn't respect president obama, didn't respect our country. >> i feel badly for general flynn. he lost his house. maybe he didn't lie. >> joining me now white house respondent maggie haberman. over the course of the last few weeks, you have spoken a lot about the president's lies and untruths. and when he doesn't in that context, what do you make of his answers today. >> for the most part he was saying things, it was a grab bag of what he wanted to will into existence versus what i think were not true.
somebody actually yelled why are you yelling about that sir which i think is a rubicon crossing. he did say a number of things that were false. he did say things that you would have to assume. one assumes that he knows what his own border policy is. he knows it is a lie to keep saying it is a democrat policy. i believe he does not want it own politically, the images of these children who have been taken away from parents at the border. you saw him practice a tremendous amount of spin. she w hillary clinton was the wronged party in the entire report but the president has turned it into something of himself. how it showed he was correct
about comey in terms of firing him and made claims that were not true. exonerated him in terms of allegations of collusion of russian officials, and the report doesn't do any of that. i think this is a president who has been cooped up and likes to do things the way he likes to. and likes engaging with the president and hasn't been for a long time. i think that was enjoyable for him but a torrent of inaccuracies and false hoods. >> he has been spending more days answering reporter's questions and that is good. do you think these misstatements are any actual strategy in the president's part or reacting real time. >> on comey, there is a strategy. they need to attack him from all
angles. and that is not a surprise and that is part of a strategy. the rest of it, i think this is a president and before that a candidate, and before that a business man and reality television star that will say whatever he has to say to get through short ten to 15 minutes of time. he informed the reporter that he was asking an entire different question. and this is somebody who is getting through that moment. >> where do you think, the president's head is right now. he is on the heels by most accounts a successful first step with north korea and now facing the prospect of a sit-down interview with special counsel robert mueller. >> i think the chances of that interview being agreed to by the president is extremely slim. never say never, but based on my
reporting. i think his head was in the right place regarding north korea. time and time again, when he has done something, there has been something of a sky is falling reaction to it and that emboldens him when the sky does not fall. it was frustrating to come back to the u.s. and describe the meeting to what it actually was. what he agreed to give up and what kim jong-un agreed to give up. and a bit of a gap describing it into what took place. and i think that bothers him. >> good point. maggie haberman, thanks so much. >> thank you. how president trump stunned world leaders at the g7 summit
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be out of office soon. on thursday jeff sessions cited the bible to justify separating immigrant children from their parents. here is what the attorney general said. >> i would cite you to the apostle paul and his clear and wise command romans 13. obey the law of the government. >> elsewhere the bible says love your neighbor as yourself. also love does no harm to your neighbor therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. some biblical scholars are taking issues with what mr. sessions says. and that includes my next guest, russell moore. as someone who knows the bible
as well as you do, what goes through your mind when you hear the attorney general use it to defend this specific policy. >> we all have moments when we can use more time in sunday school and this is one of those moments for the department of justice. romans 13 does not mean any law of government is a good law or just law. it means the governing authorities are put into place for a reason. and the reason is that to commend that, that is good and punish that which is evil. it is hard to imagine children clinging to their parents in a difficult time is evil. i think surely as americans we can do better than this when it comes to vulnerable children who
need their parents. if we are pro family, we need to recognize this. >> the attorney general is not just talking about the bible generally, he is citing a specific passage that is also used in the passage you know to justify tyranny and slavery. >> i don't think that is what the attorney general was trying to do. but i do think it is important to say romans 13 does not affirm what is going on in the status quo. i think it is a warning to us to assure that we do right to these migrant children. authorities are accountable to god. and in the united states of america, the people are the ultimate authority. when we see things that are a shock to our conscious, we ought
to be the people who says this isn't right and we can't see that as images on a television screen. this is our responsibility as the people. >> if you believe in god, you do know that god doesn't want to see little kids taken away from moms and dads. a lot of the teaching of the bibles have to do with kindness, to children, as well as compassion to strangers. >> yes, indeed and that is one of the reasons why you see in american life right now, such an outcry. everyone from franklin graham to willy nelson is talking about how egregious what is going own in the border i wish that right now the governing authorities, the president, the attorney general would listen to this and let's work out a way to keep the border safe, we're all for that. but also respect the dignity and
humanity of children and their parents made in the image of god. as a country and as a people. >> you've been outspoken when it comes to the president, but many of your prominent evangelicals, they are speaking out this time against this specific policy. what do you think that is? >> well i think the president is the leader of this country. we are required by the bible to pray for him and hope that he succeeds in every way. i think many evangelicals are doing that right now. regardless of whether they supported the president or didn't support the president. this is a clear moral issue that we ought to speak to and ought to hope that the president looks to this and sees how shocking what is happening at the border
is and corrects it. and he can and i hope that he will. >> all of us do. thank you so much for jing us >> good to be with you. >> a lot more to get to to want. let's check in with chris cuomo with what he has cooking for "cuomo prime time." >> we have the opportunity to live to the expectation of just ask the man on the two biggest stories of the day. rudy giuliani. everybody is talking about rudy giuliani meant today. we're going to ask him himself. he will be on the show live at the top of the hour. and not let people forget what is going on at the border. and in terms of what god wants or if there is any religion of what the government policy at all, we have cardinal timothy
dolan here. why he -- the church is sending a team to the border. >> on the scene as custom and border patrol agents detained children and adults. one, 11-year-old says he came by himself. directv now gives you more for your thing. get all the good stuff about tv without all the bad stuff. yes! you can still stream your favorite shows... yes! ...with no annual contract. wait, what? it's live tv. yes! with no satellites. what? and no bulky hardware. no bulky hardware! isn't that great news? yes! noooooo! no! noooo.
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hard to believe. new government figures out show nearly 2,000 children have been separated from their parents at the u.s./mexican border from mid april through the end of may. cnn was at the scene as border patrol agents added to that number. >> reporter: it's hard to see people moving through the thick south texas vegetation. the rio grand rolls by just beyond the tree line, and then
just like that, they appear out of the brush. a small group of undocumented immigrants walking into a public park. >> we just came across this group of undocumented immigrants here in the town of mission, texas. two adults, four children. just finished crossing the rio grand here a little while ago. now they're in the custody of border patrol. this group is made of three different groups. they met along the journey from hon dur us and decided to enter the country decide. they are given water, and they for a vehicle to take them to a border patrol station. there's jonathan ariel, 11 years old. he said he left with cousins but they abandoned him along the way. he says his mother lives in virginia and told him not to make this journey alone, but now he's here. >> i told her i wanted to come, he says. she said it's very dangerous. >> reporter: are you scared?
r a little, he says. it's a brief conversation that leaves you with many more questions about how a young boy can get to this point. as an unaccompanied minor, he will likely end up in a children's shelter like this one as federal authorities try to connect the boy with his mother. the rest of this group is two adult women with their children. dalia is 24 and crossed the border with her little boy. why did you come? >> translator: she says gang members left a note at her home threatening to kill her. that's when she decided to flee. >> reporter: are you afraid they're going to separate you from your children? >> translator: yes, she's my son and i love him. i have carried him throughout my journey. >> reporter: she said she did not know she might be separated from her son in the united states. but she says i have nothing in honduras. the families are loaded up and taken away unsure of what
happens next. and wolf, i was able to speak with jonathan's mother. he gave me her phone number. she said she's spoken with him and federal authorities told her they would speak with her tomorrow to figure out what is next. what is unclear is the other part of the group, the two adult women with their children and what happens to them is not exactly clear. even though the trump administration has talked about this being a zero tolerance policy, not everyone is being separated from their children. but federal officials that we spoke with today won't say exactly how that is -- how those decisions are determined at this point, why some people are separated from their children. w while others are not. >> let's hope the kids can stay with their moms. so sad. ed, thank you very much. meantime, the federal government has chosen a small town in south texas as the newest location for a temporary shelt tore house at least some of the unaccompanied children of those undocumented immigrant parents.
tonight cnn -- tonight 360's gary tuckman is on the seen for us. you're over there. describe what you've seen today. >> well, wolf, this is a very small town in texas. and this is the port of entry in the small town. behind this six-foot chain link fence, behind this six-foot granite wall and behind this 10 -foot barbed wire fence there are up to 300 children who moved in since yesterday. the government is not telling us how many children are here. the state representative for this district says 98 children came yesterday. 200 children have come today. you can see in the background a big white tent-like structure. the government won't comment to us about if that's where they're living. we are seeing video from a different vantage point which shows the children outside playing outside that tent-like structure. the government has said they were going to build a structure that was semi permanent that has
steel siding, that had plastic, very strong plastic ceiling and ground. we believe that the structure where the children are living. we are told at this point that everybody is healthy. right now it is 95 degrees outside here. we are told there's air-conditioning inside, but there's a lot of concern in this community about those children, because of the high temperatures here and because of the remoteness of this area. i want to show you quick, wolf, tis is the desert. we're in the middle of nowhere. only 1500 people live in this town. >> gary, thank you so much. there's breaking news ahead. investigators say they've reconstructed 16 pages of shredded documents collected in the raid on michael cohen back in april. all next week cnn will have a series about individuals and organizations who have made an extraordinary difference in people's lives. take a look. >> all next week, a special cnn
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about when they will have finished reviewing documents seized in the fbi raid. they say everything will be reviewed by june 25th. investigators are saying they've reconstructed 16 pages worth of shredded documents collected in the raid. more on that in the coming days. thank you very much for watching. time to hand over to chris cuomo right now. >> thank you, wolf. happy father's day to you this weekend. i'm chris cuomo. the president going on off rants with wild statements. his former campaign chair thrown in jail. china accusing him of trade war. his counsel, rudy giuliani, driving the news cycle once again. a series of provocative and political statements going after joe biden, setting a deadline for an interview with president trump, and a bold prediction about