tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN January 26, 2019 12:00am-1:00am PST
i'm don lemon. it was a boalbalmshell day. it started with this predawn raid caught by cnn. >> fbi, open the door. >> roger stone, a man president trump has known for decades indicted by robert mueller and special counsel says stone went after mails from wikileaks that could damage hillary clinton's campaign and says it was all done in coordination with trump campaign officials. the judge laid out the charges in a federal court in ford lauder dale today. >> you're here for an initial or first appearance on an indictment that has been returned. states charge one, obstruction in proceeding.
two through six are false statements to a legislative branch of the government and count seven is witness tampering. >> roger stone is defiant tonight. he says he is not guilty and will defeat the charges in court. but the special ounceal's 24-page indictment is damming. writes after the release of stolen dnc emails by wikileaks a direct official was directed to contact stone about any additional releases and what other damaging information organization had regarding the clinton ampain. this is the key can part. mueller writes this senior official was directed to reach out on what wikileaks had on clinton. so who is more senior than a senior campaign official?
you got to wonder how high this goes. good evening, gentleman. >> are you a genie or something? it was on this show 24 hours aguy. i asked you a wegz and you said there were things going on with the grand jury and you were thinking something was going to happen. you predicted an indictment today. so give me the biggest take away of the day. >> i think it was a great team effort of conebtinecting a lot dots. we suspected the fbi would go and take him into custody. they were not going to allow him to surrender, given the antics he's pulled in this cases and we believed they were going to go and get him. i think what we learned in this indictment is we now have a direct link of coordination between the trump campaign and
wikileaks. it's very clear roger stone was that direct link, that roger stone was working the campaign, roger stone was working wickey leaks for information and that senior level people knew about this, were asking him to do more and who was directing the senior campaign person? we don't knothat. and i think it's a good point you make, that who could be higher than this senior level person? we don't yet know. there's been a lot of questions about whether trump campaign knew, had a heads up on these emails. how much did they know and i think this indictment answers that question quite clearly. >> john, listen, no one wants that knock at anytime, especially in the middle of the night or early morning. what do you think is going
through roger stone's head when that happens? >> i suspect he was pretty shocked. and i suspect his dogs are pretty shocked too from what i pick up from today's news. you know, i don't like the see law enforcement embarrass potential defendants that are charged and i don't that was the reason for this but it had that impact and what they did is apparently do a full search of the house after they got there and that's why the team was so large and i think mueller was correct in assuming roger might have made evidence disappear had it not been a surprise arrest. so i can understand why it happened. but i don't know if you needed automatic weapons for that. >> so what does this say to you? does mean the direction came from the president and can does mueller have evidence of that? >> i think one of the things you
have to look into this is it's a very obscure sentence. clearly mueller knows something about who offered the direction. tltz there's going to be an open question about what the department of justs does if the comes up to the president. the most fascinating document among all the fascinating documents is the final report that pulls this all together and i suspect that sentence will be clear. the mueller team will be telling the congress we're not here to investigating the president, you've but to do this with the final report that includes stuff ever to you to determine whether or not to proceed. >> do you think we'll see that report? >> i think we will and my last point is that puts the attorney general nominee on the hot spot. he's got to decide what to to with that report. i got to believe he's going to hand over at least part to the congress.
i thunk he's got to give them the real deal. >> yes, let me go. >> stone and trump have been friends for decades. they were very close. take a listen to paul manafort. >> even after roger stopped being the principal advisor to trump, he continued to be an importa important advisor is till this day. they've been so interconnected. ier while it will be a trump presidency, i think it's influenced by roger stone. >> do you think he's reaching out to wikileaks without the president's blessing? >> i think he could have been doing it on his own but keep canning the president informed, other people informed. i don't know we're going to see direct evidence of the president saying go do this.
it could have been because of their long-standing relationship that roger stone came up with this idea, wanted to help trump. they've been knowing each other for many years and that may be what went on here and that he was keeping trump aprise said of what was going on. obviously that's what this indictment says. will we ever find out? i think that's a very interesting question going down the line. because even if it's in the report you were just talking about, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be made public. the that's the question. will we ever find out who this is? >> so there's a 100% chance in your mind that nobody can offer any compelling, credible proof that donald trump knew about your efforts to get to wikileaks? >> nobody can supply any corroborating truth. people can have their testimony
composed, particularly if they're looking for a reduction their sentence but there's no proof, any suggestion we did discuss would be conjecture, supsition. and first all of when you talk to donald trump on the phone, in all honesty, he does most of the talking, you do most of the listening. we with just never dus iscuss canned this topic. no corroborated evidence. >> i have trouble buying anything from roger on face value. i reread the entire indictment after listening to his interview and it doesn't hold up well, his defense. chris didn't obviously get down into the weeds with him and his effort to respond didn't really fit with the charges and the detail that's there. i must tell you my first reaction reading the indictment and seeing the senior person in
there was probably not trump but probably not manafort or gates either because they might have been named suns they've already been charged and either agreed or in jail. but it could be the sons who i have read many times are the deputy campaign managers. right below the president himself or the candidate himself. so that's who i fig wrrured it t be. >> how worried do you think team trump should be? >> there's a lot of commentary in washington thissed can be the final sthu drop. it corroborates the cases against all the other individuals. which was built on a weak case? every single one from flint on down was air tight. my point about the family and why the white house should be n concerned is now we know there's
direction from the people in the white house who lied and i suspect some to the mueller team, did they lie as well? that is one of my take aways from the report. who directed stone when they spoke to special counsel, did they do the same thing everybody else did and say i didn't really know about it and if they did, they're in trouble, don. >> anything else that stands out to you? >> in the way they haven't characterized wikileaks. there's nothing to suggest even if they were exchanging this information with wikileaks or anyone in the campaign, there's nothing here that says that was a crime. the crime that we keep seeing that have been committed in this entire investigation -- >> lying. >> -- is lying. and the question is what is going on? why were people consistently lying? has to be for political reasons. they didn't want to damage on
the don and his chances for being elecced. they knew there were a lot of questions about wikileaks and there whether there was an exchange of information and they did everything they could to hide that. they didn't want it getting out publicly. that's what year seeing consistently from michael cohen to roger stone, michael flynn, other people, george papadopoulos. we don't knohis entire reason. but in the end it's about protecting donald trump politically. >> i've heard so many people say you get in there and -- even the defense of roger stone. you get in there and they confuse you and you have a misstatement can't remember something. law enforcement, they know when you miss remember something and when you're lying. right, john? >> i agree with that. and as the congressman said when roger was in front of the
committee where he was charged with lying, he was very serious. he was very composed. he was obviously giving his story. when you lead to statements that are charged as being false, they're conspi they're conspikeusly false. sometimes they involve text messages and emails the same day he's testifying. so i don't think roger can wiggle out from this one. >> thank you var much. john dean, i need you to stay with me. we need to talk more. and making an all too familiar hand gesture as he faces several federal charges. where have you seen that before? audible members know listening has the power to change us, make us better people.
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and the executive producer of "the circus" and former adviser to john mccain and president jor george h.w. bush. i want to start by taking a look at part of this indictment where roger stone is talking to person two about giving false testimony or pleading the fifth. stone wall it, plead the fifth, anything to save the plan. that's interesting but what's more interesting is when we play this next clup. this is from the watergate tapes. this is richard nixon talking to john mitchell and holdman. >> so he's literally quoting richard nixon when he was talking to people about this. you can't make this stuff up,
can you? >> no, admired nixon. he's spent 40 years trying to replicate the fun he had working on the ampain. ehe was one of those eager guys willing to do whatever they wanted him to do to help president nixon. so he ran up an agent in the humphrey and mcgovern campaign. he did a dirty trick up in new hampshire. this is a world he loved. and he kept getting zaubs. what is it about the taark sid amarron politics that people like that are so employable. >> what tid you think when you read that entitlement? >> well, my first reaction was it's amazing he literally could recall can one of the most
pertinent tapes that surfaces used so effectively in the trial against mitchell because here he was conspiring against nixon to plead the fifth and it was dev stauting. tim will be interested in this that the nixon foundation this afternoon issued a tweet really kind of disowning roger stone saying he was only 16 for the 1968 and basely saying he wasn't part of our organization. not even they want to be connected with him. >> i've got here. mark, he is known to be obsessed.
left the court house and did the victory sign. >> sorry, don. >> can we go over to camera? where's his camera? oau. wrv i've been hearing that all night and saying i'm not going to say that on tv. go on. he's a man from another time and maybe another planet. >> my overall view of what's happening to stone today is this is where he wants to be and that he will not flip on the president and that he will likely go to prison and he will happily do that, serve a short sentence, be ethe martyr of all martyrs for president trump. and have a great career afterwards. >> he would have been upset if he wasn't intieted. >> absolutely.
the only thing that matters is being the center of attention >> okay. sent to person number two who cnn has confirmed to be randy cred co. that's a character from "godfather ii" who cooperate would the fbi and it nighed it. >> mr. pan tachg low, were you a member of the corleon family? >> i never knew no godfather. look, the fbi guys promised me a deal so i ate up a lot of stuff about michael corleon because that's what they wanted but it was all lies, everything. >> so you get the correlation that he wanted -- stone wantsed
him to tlie house intelligence committee. does it get any stranger than that? >> i think that's a chance bob mueller will play that clip to the jury. >> you think so? >> sure. >> they call people rats, stoolies. and on and on. what does that saw about their world view you think? >> well, it shows very much trump is from that world that roger stone is in and out of that is very organized crime oriented and roger has taken the worst lessons of watergate and adopted all of the tactics of the mob as his mentor the president has done. >> if you look at his career,
this is an intelligent operative. he loves conspiracies. he's not good at it but he loves that world. this is a guy who views cutouts to engage in the kinds of game that's he's always wantsed to play. >> he says he's a conspiracy realest. >> well with, whatever. he believes he lives in a world of conspiracies. >> the only thing worse than talking about it is not talking about it. >> a co can host with roger stone in october of 2016. >> are you suggesting on the basis of what you know through your mutual friend that in the next three weeks that wikileaks will release or could release information that is substantially more damaging to hillary clinton than what is released already? >> yes.
i think race is close can enough the electorate is volatile enough that any major revelation on either side could get substantially royal and decide the races. trump may need some breaks but to say he's out of it, over? tud you say over? nothing's over until we say it is. >> he is basically can admitting that he knows more damaging emails are going to come out and they are going to help with it to help trump. >> i think it's clear what he was suggesting there and then it aim to pass. >> there's always a tweet or interview when it ams to people ass associated with this? >> one of his flaws is he always thinks who's smarter than everybody else. what's interesting about roger is he thought that by denying he had an email related to wikileaks that somehow the government wouldn't get them.
so he lies about it before the house intelligent committee and doesn't imagine they could go eto the servers and get them themselves. >> today on all days, voted unanimously to express their unitvided support of donald j. trum trump, basically a pledge to stand behind him in 2020. >> as long as that happens he's probably safe. since it's not likely they will reach the policy of the tarmt department of justs by an entitlement from the special counsel. so it's inimpeachment or nothing and if the republicans stay with him, he's safe there. because he needs 20 members of the senate to make a guilty plea or a bill of impeachment stick in the senate and a removal also.
>> that's the sort of thing you do from position of weakness, not strength. you're not doing purity tests and making demands and loyalty tests for members of the committee. no, you go with confidence. when you're worried about a threat that you establish these kinds of rules. >> thank you, gentleman. giving new meaning to business in the front, party in the back. "the circus" returns sunday night on show it is time. , ♪ ♪ indigestion, ♪ upset stomach, ♪ diarrhea... girl, pepto ultra coating will treat your stomach right. ♪nausea, heartburn, ♪ indigestion, upset stomach, ♪ diarrhea... try pepto with ultra coating. losing your hair is no fun and no one wants to be bald but there is hope. getting my hair back was the best thing that ever happened to me. i'm happy with the way i look now. i'm very excited about my hair. i feel beautiful.
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by being on time everytime. and if we are ever late, we'll give you a automatic twenty dollar credit. my name is antonio and i'm a technician at comcast. we're working to make things simple, easy and awesome. so today we learned that long time associate, roger stone -- the single biggest questions stems from this line a senior campaign official was tredirect to ontact stone about additional releases with wikileaks. got to make you wonder. who can we identify in the rest of the indictment? both wikileaks and its founder
have been wroifed. identified. and a months before a senior campaign official reached out to roger stone about future wikileaks releases. according to "new york times," bannon had that email exchange with roger stone and then there are the people stone communicated with assange knew. and one says that's me, conspiracy therast, zurome corsi. stone allegedly attempted to sway person two's testimony to congress. they allege person two was a go-between with julian asauchg. emails in the indictment eshow
stone trying to suede his testimony, calling him a rat and threatening to take away his therapy dog, named beoncau. and someone else's name pops up. right there. donald j. trump. he's mentioned once. but his campaign, 22 times. so what does this tell us about the case mueller's building and where this is going? let's discuss now. boy oh boy oh boy. boy oh boy oh boy, here we go. we were just on last night, right? >> yep. >> roger stone's indictment. does it get us any closer to answering the question of whether trump campaign colluded with wikileaks or russia?
>> it begins to show us what robert mueller is thinking. you were right to single out the line that he was directed -- that trump campaign official was directed to contact roger stone. mule mueller has evidence of the campaign during this time window and it's notable that indictment after indictment, court filing after court filing, bob mueller continues to show us the what without necessarily telling us the why and you have to think he is with holding the why, the motive for a reason. and as mud was saying earlier that there's a lot more to come when you begin to sort of read between the lines of what mueller knows and is telling us. >> you're shaking your head in agreement and i wants taknow
why. >> someone is finally going to jail for hillary's emails. i don't think it's who the let's-lock-her-up crowd thought. i -- what we're going to see with the mueller report is what i'm calling the connective tissues. all these indictments are pieces and the report is the connected tissues. he's similar to a tsunami. four stages. one is something starts, the water is reseeding. second is the split stage. is it actually going to norm to something because we spent a lot of months wondering is he going after this or that? and then that thing is getting stronger and we're starting to see and then of course you have impact or run up and we're not even at impact yet and i think
to look at today's document is this is just amp luification. it is just getting bigger and something is going to hit whether it's trump or son or son unlaw, whoever that senior official sr. i think we brace ourselves for that. whether it's trump or the boys or son in law, who knows. >> interesting. stone was on fox news tonight. hooe here it is. >> who was it if it wasn't the president? >> well, i have to speculate about that. since it never happened it appears to me they have composed testimony for someone. perhaps someone is bearing false witness against me. but knowing what's in my email a text messages, there's no corroboration what's ovr.
>> he's suggesting gates or bannon will be named. we know gates is cooperating with mueller. >> likely gates or let me throw out another possibility and that is that little don might be the one we're talking about in paragraph 12. we know he has an appetite for trying to dig up dirt on clinton and we know that because of the secret trump tower meeting supposed to be about adoptions and he calls an anonymous telephone number and the president talks about what the purpose was. i suggest it might very well be the achilles heel of the president and that is his family. i feel like mueller istleing us he's getting close to that. this indictment to me reads like the classic prosecutor sort of hub and spoke and conspear as. you have this center piece in the middle which is trump. you have all the little spokes
and they're all doing their dirty work and nasty work with a common purpose of getting them whatever trump wants to have done or the people close to him wants done and that's just a standard prosecution theory that we use in cases all the time. when we talk about drcarteles, organizations where you don't get direct involvement or untroll or evidence of a direct statement by the person in the middle. so who better than little don to carry out the wishes of his dad and say yeah, go on, mr. stone, and give us more information from wikileaks and tell us what's there. that's ainnerone i'd like you to think about as we go forward. >> julia, we know the indictment mentions an august second email.
where he says more emails are coming. now i to listen to what then candidate trump said in august. >> she also lacks the mental and physical stamina to take on isis and all of the many adversaries we face. >> wow, so that was august 15th. lack mental and physical stamina. could there be coordination here? >> absolutely. and i think in some respect the intelligence community may have known at the time. i heard zam james clapper say the scary thing is just how the theories against hillary were the same from russia and from
trump which can made them nervous. and shows how bad the trump campaign was in terms of taking it seriously. he says this about her health. august 16th the trump campaign and himself get briefed for the first time by the intelligence community that russia has a campaign against hillary clinton and be weary of any information or contacts. so all of this happens in a 24-hour period. that piece is not in the indictment. but just rrm they knew, the trump people knew russia was promoting this. they didn't say anything to the fbi and you got to wonder they didn't say anything because the day before they already knew where the information was coming from? >> the white house is down playing roger stone's indictment. nothing to do with the president they're sawing. we've seen plenty of denials
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the white house is denying today's bombshell has anything to do with the president. s sarah sanders can't say -- >> you will not answer whether it was the president who directed a senior trump campaign official contact roger stone and you may not know. >> i actually have answered the question several times. was it the bhooz made that direction or not? >> once again i haven't read
this document. what i can tell you are the charges brought against mr. stone have nothing to do with the president, with the white house. >> she does that a lot where she says wrv i've answered the ques and she hasn't answered the question. press secretary can't say whether the president directed to tell stone and suggests the president has nothing to do with this indictment. does that hold water? >> i mean she doesn't have anything left. not feeling sorry for her what is she going to say at this stage? she's not an idiot. she read the news reports before she went on air with cnn. she's decided to sell her brain and soul to defend a person who she doesn't know what he tid. so she sounds as foolish as it appears this morning.
that was just a crazy interview that he did in the sense i didn't read it but it's an inconsistent thing to keep going on air. >> listen how the press secretary sec redescribed roger stone. >> so there is a connection between roger stone and the now president, president trump? >> dozens of republican kand tits and members of congress -- >> so now i want you to listen to how roger stone described his relationship with donald trump. >> kbi am one of his oldest friends, i'm a fervent supporter of the president. >> not exactly on the same page,
right? >> this is where the president is finding himself painted into a deeper and deeper corner. the president is sort of increasingly backed into this question of he's either going to having admit he's a fool or a criminal. because right now you have someone who either was a criminally involved in some of this or was so clueless a leader and manager of his own presidential campaign that his campaign chairman, his deputy campaign chairman, national security advisor, his personal lawyer and fixer and one of his oldest friends were all running separate criminal schemes on their own in the midst of his campaign without his knowledge. sort of neither one of these scenarios is looking very good for the president right now. >> michael, the president's attorney told the "washington post" another false statement
case. goddall mighty. they to have alleged false statements and i don't want to minimize that. that's not right. you shouldn't do that but there's no evidence of anything else but false statements. the president is safe here. is president safe? >> i don't think he's safe at all. sawing this indictment has nothing to do with president is like saying the solar system has nothing to do with the sun. all of these bad actors are rotating around the president. i don't know howmany people we gots. we've got russian companies charged with crimes, secret meetings in the u.s. supreme court, all this secret stuff going on and there's no way he can say that. giuliani has a history from trying to tamp down and put us off to the side and act like we can't follow the news. the fact of the matter is you've got a serious charge but those report it because that's how we
get to the truth of the investigation. the integrity of the witness is important and you have somebody sawing a high up person in the campaign was told by somebody apparently with authority to direct him to in fact go out and seek additional information. not to mention the information we heard last week. so it's a bad day for the president and i can understand why giuliani wants to put spin on it. audible members know listening has the power to change us make us better parents, better leaders, better people. and there's no better place to listen than audible. with audible you get a credit good for any audiobook and exclusive fitness and wellness programs. and now, you'll also get two audible originals: titles exclusively produced for audible. automatically roll your credits over to the next month if you don't use them, and if you don't like a book just swap it for free. enjoy 100% ad free listening in the car,
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they don't believe it, but it's true. >> i always thought what would it be like if you turned the orner one day and you saw yourself? >> oh, my god. >> wow. >> the first time the boys met, the three together, it was a meral. >> there was nothing that could keep us apart. >> that's when things kind of got funky. >> something was just not right. >> w >> i'd like to know the truth. >> the parents had never been told. >> they're trying to conseal what thaw did from the people they did to. there's still so much that we don't know. how could you not tell us? "three identical strangers" sunday at 9:00 eastern on cnn. rd to a crisp, professionally!
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partial government shutdown is over. the longest in u.s. history. president trump accused of caving. democrats giving no money for the border wall he wants. in three weeks, we could be back to square one. paycheck stubs with zero dollars on them will change as federal workers head back to their jobs. i'll talk to one federal worker to see what she will do with her first paycheck of the year. the man you see here, long-time trump ally, roger stone, ushered out of his house to a