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tv   New Day With Alisyn Camerota and John Berman  CNN  March 13, 2019 5:00am-6:01am PDT

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much for helping to sound the alarm on all of this, and retrace the steps for how we got there. we look forward to your future reporting on all of this, and thank you so much for being on "new day". we have breaking details on what the u.s. government knew about the pilot's concerns about the boeing jet involved in the two deadly crashes. let's get right to it. this is cnn breaking news. >> good morning, and welcome to your new day, it is wednesday, march 13th, it is 8:00 in the east. we do have breaking news on a major story. cnn has learned that at least five pilots reported control issues with the boeing 737 max 8 je jets while flying routes in the united states. much of the world has grounded this jet after two deadly crashes in just the last five months. >> two key questions this morning r morning, why are these boeing jets still flying in the u.s. and why does it take the media to uncover all of the concerns
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from the pilots instead of the faa or boeing being transparent about the safety issues. cnn's martin savidge is live at atlanta's international airport with the breaking details. >> reporter: there's no doubt that these revelations coming from pilots in the united states saying that they have difficulty controlling this brand new aircraft are going to add to the concerns of the flying public. the public may not beware that there is this system in place for pilots to sort of self-report to the federal government, and that's what has been happening. and let me read you one of the complaints that one of these pilots made, he said, i think it's unconscionable that a manufacturer, the faa would have pilots flying an airplane without adequately training or providing available resources and sufficient documentation to understand the highly complex systems that differentiate this aircraft from prior models. the flight manual is inadequate, and almost criminally insufficient. all airlines that operate the
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max must insist boeing incorporate all systems in their manuals. that's dated november, boeing says it has updated manuals and additional training has been given to flight crews. this shows that there were problems by pilots with this plane in this country, and it also sthohows that there are st concerns by those pilots which is why many are wondering why the faa is condoning this fly in u.s. airspace. there are four countries including the european union, china and australia, not only are they grounding the planes, those planes can't fly overhead in their countries. there are 70 such planes flying in the united states today, which means, today, thousands of passengers will be getting on board. many may not beware they're on the plane that's now suffered two terrible crashes. the faa maintains they're safe to fly. allison. >> thank you very much for the update from atlanta. joining us now, we have cnn
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aviation analyst, miles o'brien, also the science correspondent for pbs news hour, and sarah nelson, international president with the association of flight attendants, they called for the boeing jet to be grounded. miles i want to start with you because what cnn has learned from at least these five episodes that were so alarming to pilots, they felt the need to pick up the phone and call into the federal data base to explain the weird thing that had happened to them in the air. let me read some of these. the first one the pilot reports, the air craft accelerated normally, and the captain engaged the auto pilot after reaching set speed. in 2 to 3 seconds, the aircraft pitched nose down. the captain disconnected the auto pilot. i can't think of any reason the aircraft would pitch nose down so aggressively. that's just one. >> that's a frightening narrative, and you know, the faa
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immediately after the lion air crash, the first crash following the 737 maxes, indicated that the manufacturer needs to change its system and not rely on one sensor to feed the information to the automatic system designed to prevent a stall. that is a that setta tacited sy you have a system wide problem, and then you have a second crash, which may or may not with the root cause, but i think the burden of proof has shifted. the faa says it's safe to flight despite what other agencies and the airlines have stated, so i think it's, at this point, the idea of airing on the side of safety is a good idea. >> you bring up a great point. boeing has said it needs to update the software. it says it needs to fix things and yet it is standing by, the
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faa is standing by, the european union, countries all over asia and central america are grounding this plane. >> there is a systemic problem, whether the latest accident is connect or not. add this to the whole mix and i think there's tremendous pressure on the faa to take action right now. they want to wait and see what's in the black boxes, the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder. that's good, it's a slow process. it's amazing in this day and age that we're waiting for this information to be pulled out of boxes. >> sarah, how are flight attendants feeling this morning? >> well flight attendants are concerned, and they are expressing concern all over the country but we really called for the faa to conduct a thorough investigation and to take steps immediately to restore confidence to the traveling public. since that time, they said that they need to make a fix to the aircraft and saying that needs to be done by april is just not sufficient for travelers around
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the world, for other nations around the world who are saying why are we waiting here. you know, harvard business school still teach the lessons that we learned from the johnson & johnson case when tylenol was laced with cyanide, a few bothers, and the ceo recalled all of those tylenol bottles and really showed that there's a return on integrity. we're really in a crisis of leadership here, and it's important that the united states continue to show the leadership that it has in all of these decades, restore public trust. these are two crashes close together. we don't have all the information. we should not jump to conclusions but we should take steps to help everyone understand this is understand control and we can have confidence in the system. >> let me tell you what boeing says about this, it says safety is boeing's number one priority, and we have full confidence in the safety of the max. sarah, do your flight attendants getting on the planes have full confidence in the safety of the max? do they feel safe getting on
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these planes, what are you telling them to do this next month until april when the software fix comes into play? >> they're expressing concerns, and let me just say that we have tremendous confidence in the pilots who fly our planes and we know that the pilots will not take up a plane that they don't believe safe. we also have tremendous confidence in the 35,000 boeing workers who have put together solid planes for a very long time. this is a leadership issue. this is not about the people on the front lines who work very hard, thousands of people to keep us safe and so we have a lot of confidence in the people we fly with and the people who make these planes. the leadership coming out of the faa and out of boeing needs to change here and take a look at the real concern that is being expressed across the country. they need to ground the planes, take the steps to have everyone understand they have made all the corrections necessary to ensure these planes are safe, and then we can get on about the business of the safest transportation system in the world. >> one person who does not have confidence in the technology, miles, is president trump.
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he tweeted about how he finds it way too complicated. that's the problem, the technology has advanced beyond what sort of man can handle and yet, you know, he's the person who has the power to tell the faa to ground these planes. bun important bit of context, boeing made a $1 million donation to president trump's inaugural committee. and so we don't know why the president isn't calling for these planes to be grounded but that's just important to keep in mind. >> i for one don't mind having a smart person find my airplane, and if albert einstein was a pilot i would be all in favor of that. airplanes are much more complex, much more automated and much safer than they ever were. thinking about the old days and what it was like to fly the 707s, accidents were much more
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frequent. as you work into the world of automation, having the human being remain part of the loop. they need to know how the systems operates at least at a certain level so if they fail, they know what to do quickly. when the chips are down, that's when they get the airplane. a lot of times they have been flying around, not putting their hands on the instruments, the control wheel and their experience level flying the aircraft is not what it should be. there's a real automation trap that should be explored. >> albert einstein as my pilot. these questions will continue all day. why does this plane continue to fly, and the faa will face this until there's a resolution. >> and we will continue to hear from pilots. another story, former trump campaign chairman paul manafort will be back in court to be sentenced for a second criminal case. he faces a maximum of ten years in prison on conspiracy and witness tampering. live at the u.s. district
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courthouse in washington with more, what do we expect, cara. >> paul manafort is facing ten years in prison for these charges of conspiracy in the u.s. and conspiracy to obstruct justice. now, this is going to be a very different setting than the one last week where manafort was sentenced to 47 months in prison. today in just about 90 means he will be before judge amy berman jackson. judge jackson has a history with manafort and this case. she put him in jail last june after manafort was charged with witness tampering. she is also the one who decided that he did break his cooperation agreement with the special counsel's office, finding that he lied to them multiple times. and she has heard that paul manafort, when he was donald trump's campaign manager was having chunommunications with t ukrainian that the fbi says has ties to russian intelligence. judge jackson can take this into consideration when she sentences manafort. she's tapped at ten years but
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the big question will be no matter what sentence she gives manafort, does she have them served side by side or consecutively. manafort is going to turn 70 years old next month. if he gets the maximum sentence and she rules they should run one after the other, he faces 14 years in prison, a very long prison sentence for someone turning 70 years old. >> we learn the difference between consecutively and concurrently. joining us is the former defense attorney for rick gates and cnn political analyst, david gregory. shan, you have had cases before judge jackson. what do you expect to see today? >> i was before her with mr. manafort and gates by my side back in the day. i will expect we'll hear a big number initially. which the manafort team is
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bracing itself for. i think that's then going to be mitigated by her running it concurrently. i think he's going to get a little bit more time, but some of it is going to be concurrent. he's not going to get that full ten years and she is capped at that number. i think there's a lot of expectation that this judge may come down as some avenging angel to make up for what happened in virginia. i don't expect to see that. she's a very no nonsense judge. she hasn't tolerated any nonsense from mr. manafort, and she's going to sentence him fairly but it's not going to be to make up for anything. it's going to be based on what's in front of her. let's remember, he did plead guilty in this case, he didn't go all the way through trial and be convict bid jury. >> tell us why this is so significant, this is the trump chairman. this has nothing to do with me. that's not exactly rilght. >> well, that's the big question, whether it does have something to do with him. manafort was a cooperator and he did get dinged for lying, part of the cooperation agreement,
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and his sentence, you're ef evaluated as a cooperator when it comes to sentencing and the judge. this was the campaign manager for the president and there is evidence that has been brought against him about interference, potential corruption to try to undermine the election in 2016, so the question for the mueller team, then, is what does this have to do with president trump. whether he knew, whether he culpable at all, whether there's any charges that he could bring if the justice department guidelines were different about charging a sitting president, and of course the political implications to the broader picture question. that is being consumed as mueller brings a high profile prosecution, what is the ultimate sentence, who has he got skand on what crimes is something that's being taken in by congress as it looks to pick up the baton from mueller once
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he's complete. >> you did represent rick gatings. based on the public information we know the status hearing for rick gates at the end of this week. what happens with him next. will he be sentenced? one of the things we could learn there is if there is more cooperation still needed from rick gates by prosecutors and investigators, why is that important? >> absolutely, that is very important. very telling factor for any cooperator, not jut gates is when they being the prosecutors want to further postpone the sentencing date. they're still working. there's still more information they want to get and having represented cooperators, i know that i want that sentence postponed as long as possible to get every little bit of mileage out of my client's cooperation. at the status hearing if they are willing to set a sentencing date, we can derive from that on the public record that his work is drawing to a conclusion. >> one point to bring up, shan, what he represented cooperators,
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a lot of people watch to see is she going to come down hard on him. it bears repeating that cooperators are performing. they're performing to offer a story that prosecutors want, and they're being evaluated by prosecutors who will ultimately make an argument to the sentencing judge about their value and then the judge -- and the problem here with manafort as a cooperator is that he lied to the prosecution, which isn't a death nail but certainly is not helping. >> bad cooperator. i know you said she's not going to be an avenging angel for what happened with judge ellis's sentence but will she be -- can she punish him for her previous run-ins that she had had with manafort, and that he has been a bad cooperator. >> knowing judge jackson, she won't view that as any kind of punishment for what he has done in terms of the breaching his plea agreement or having his
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sentence, his bail being revoked. she's going to punish him for the crimes he's guilty of. she's going to base that on relevant conduct, and there's a lot of other relevant conduct to consider, and i think you might even hear the ten years come out initially, but then she's going to mitigate that some, that's my speculation, and i think he's going to end up looking at additional time, maybe three or four more years than he's got. that's my guess. >> shan was closer than anybody when it came to predicting judge ellis's sentence before, so i would listen very carefully here, like the showcase show down for paul manafort. david gregory, shan wu, thank you. it's a 9:30 court appearance. stay with cnn because this will unfold throughout the morning. meanwhile, joe biden and beto o'rourke are sending the strongest signals yet about 2020. what are they waiting for? we discuss next. biopharmaceutical researchers.
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save it a little longer, i may need it in a few weeks. be careful what you wish for. >> joining us now is democratic congressman ro khanna. he is a national cochair of bernie sanders 2020 campaign. congressman, thanks for being here. how closely is senator sanders watching joe biden's decision making? >> well, i think we assume he's going to run, and a big field is terrific, but senator sanders is focussed on his message, which is ending unconstitutional wars and helping bridge the income and wealth divide in this country. >> is he at all worried about beto o'rourke who seems to have a lot of star power or did during his last race getting into the race. >> i think the more candidates the better, it will be a great debate. i know beto o'rourke i worked with him in the house. he's a good person, but when i think people look at the record,
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they will see that senator sanders has been standing up for progressive policies his whole life. he's going to stand up for the working class and communities left behind. >> i mean, in terms of the working class lane, obviously joe biden has been seen as somebody who's popular in that lane. here's the latest poll. this is from iowa. this is a cnn des moines register poll. joe biden at 27, bernie sanders, 25, elizabeth warren 9, kamala harris, 7. is joe biden who senator sanders would consider his biggest competition? >> i don't think so. i respect vice president biden but he voted for the war in iraq and supported tpp, which outsourced a lot of our jobs, so i just don't think that that's going to resonate in rural america in the heartland. i think he should run. we should have a big field, but ultimately, this race is going to come down to policy and the positions that senator sanders has taken on medicare for all, on opposing bad wars, on raising
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the minimum wage, on opposing bad trade deals. i think that's going to resonate in the heartland. >> i want to ask you about your role on the oversight committee and what you all are doing because as we know, chairman elijah cummings is asking the white house and people around the trump orbit for more documents, et cetera, and the white house is pushing back and not making things available. what's your next move? >> well, i was just speaking with chairman cummings on the house floor yesterday and there's deep frustration. chairman cummings is a very fair person. he doesn't want to issue subpoena. he has asked repeatedly for the documents about security clearances. why is the white house overruled officials to give security clearances to people like jared kushner but the who's has resisted so we're going to have to subpoena and then it's going to go to the courts and it's very unfortunate because we didn't want to go that route. >> but you're now preparing for that route, and how long will that all take?
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>> i don't know is the honest answer. it's unprecedented for the white house to refuse in the blatant way to give documents, even the obama administration, when the oversight committee exercised a restriction over them, they handed over documents, hillary clinton handed over documents to just blatantly refuse the request is without precedent, but i'm confident the courts will force and compel the white house to produce these documents. >> okay. and that leads us to the big news that speaker nancy pelosi made when she said that she basically does not think that president trump quote is worth impeachment. how do you feel? >> i think it's too soon to judge that issue. i think we have to wait for the mueller report, look what the facts are, we have to wait for the southern district of new york investigation, look what the facts are, wait for the committee's investigations, consult with constitutional law experts like larry tribe, bruce ackerman, and others and make a deliberative decisions. i don't think it's fair to say one way or the other before the
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process has played out. >> look, as you know, there are a handful of freshman lawmakers who don't want to wait for the conclusions of some of these. i mean, they ran on this, and they're ready to move forward on this now. so what do you say to them? >> well, i think being in congress on this question is like being on a jury, and how can you make a verdict or a decision before hearing all the arguments and hearing the closing statements, i would say, wait, the fairer we are in the process, the more confident the american people will will have regardless of their political persuasion, this is one of the highest obligations and we need to do our duty and look at the facts and see if the constitution warrants further action. >> given what you just described about the time line for the oversight committee and that it would be tied up in the courts, there may not be a conclusion before 2020. >> there may not but i'm confident, i think the mueller report, as you know, is going to come out soon, i think we're going to hear more from the
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southern district of new york, i think those will be critical factors and enough to make a decision. >> ro khanna, we appreciate you coming on with your position today. >> thanks for having me. paul manafort is due in court for a second sentencing very very soon. we're watching that very closely. in the meantime, we're going to speak to a juror who convicted him in the trial in virginia last year. what kind of sentence does she think he should get and what about the idea of a possible pardon that the white house won't rule out? that's next. we fit a lot of life into our subaru forester. (dad) it's good to be back. (mom) it sure is. (mom vo) over the years, we trusted it to carry and protect the things that were most important to us. we always knew we had a lot of life ahead of us. (mom) remember this? (mom vo) that's why we chose a car that we knew would be there for us through it all. (male vo) welcome to the all-new 2019 subaru forester. the longest-lasting, most trusted forester ever.
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just about one hour from now, president trump's former campaign chair paul manafort will be sentenced in a washington, d.c. federal court. manafort pleaded guilty to two counts of conspiracy and witness tampering related to his foreign lobbying work. last week, manafort was sentenced in virginia to 47 months in prison for tax and bank fraud. joining us now is paula duncan. she was one of the jurors who convicted manafort in that virginia case. paula, thank you. so much for being with us. first, let me talk about what happened last week before what's
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happening today and what might happen in the future. that sentence of 47 months caught a lot of people off guard. they thought it was relatively light because the sentencing guidelines were for 19 to 24 years. as someone who sat through and watched this whole case, did 47 months seem fair to you? >> well, our job as the jurors were to determine guilt, not to determine the prison sentence. however, i can understand how some people might think that. i think traditional tax evasion cases do get a slightly lighter sentence. i'm kind of confused as to why 47 and not 48 months, but that's just me. i think judge ellis probably did that because had he given paul manafort the larger sentence of 19, 20 years, then what paul manafort is facing today kind of wouldn't really even matter
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because he's not going to live too much longer than that, because he's going to spend the rest of his life in prison anyway. by giving the lighter sentence, i think judge ellis opened the door for the people in washington today to have an impact on how long mr. manafort will stay behind bars. >> and again, you have told us before, someone who sat through the trial, you thought paul manafort was guilty based on the evidence, not just of the counts he was ultimately convicted of and the other ones where there was a hung jury. you thought he was very guilty, correct it. >> yes, me and all but one of my fellow jurors felt that beyond any doubt, he was guilty on all 18 counts. >> and deserves to serve the sentence that he was given and perhaps whatever sentence he was given this week. what's also notable about you, paula, and what i thought, i think, the nation's attention was you're a bill supporter of president trump, you made no bones about it. we saw your make america great
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hat, and yet you still found paul manafort guilty in spite of that, why? >> i believe in our justice system, and i think that people can go in there and look at the facts and put their differences aside, and come up with a reasonable decision, and i wanted people to know when i came forward, one, that it was a close thing that he was almost convicted on all 18 counts, and also i wanted people to know that we're patriots first. we serve our country, being a juror is a huge job, and i think that we need to have more faith in our justice system because it does work the way it was intended. >> i agree with you 100%. i feel a great sense of patriotism whenever i do jury duty. ipg it's -- i think it's a wonderful thing. the white house and the president have not ruled out the
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possibility of a pardon for paul manafort. sarah sanders, the white house press secretary just last week really danced around the issue quite a bit. how would you react if the president pardoned paul manafort? >> i would be very disappointed in president trump if he pardoned paul manafort in any way, although, typically presidents when they do go out of office have hundreds of people that they pardon, but my hope is that president trump will serve a second term and by that time, paul manafort will have served six years at least, and he'll be 76. i don't know how i'll feel at that time, but right now, at this moment, i feel it would be a big mistake, and i think it would send a wrong message to americans. >> what's that message? >> it would just say that you can do whatever you want, you can break the law and i'll look
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the other way. >> paula, thank you. >> and i don't want to hear that message from the president. can i just say one more time, i want to encourage my fellow americans to get out there and hope help at the polls. i helped at the last election, and i'll be there again, and we always need workers and it's a great responsibility, and great opportunity as an american to help our democracy thrive. >> paula duncan, thank you for playing your part in the american system, and we appreciate you being with us this morning. >> thank you, john. >> i appreciate her call for civic duty. i want to be on a jury because i want to meet out justice. >> it's a judgment issue, frankly. >> and then i say that to the lawyers when they ask. >> not your judgment. all right. who is the judge that will
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decide paul manafort's fate today? we're going to tell you more about judge amy berman jackson. >> no relation. >> mm-hmm. ♪ there's no escape ♪ you better get moving ♪ ready or not ♪ it's about to go down here it comes now ♪ ♪ get ready ♪ oh oh oh oh ♪ oh oh oh oh ♪ get ready ♪ moving ♪ ready or not ♪ get ready ♪ oh oh oh oh oh ♪ hey
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rj paul manafort faces a second sentencing in less than one hour. the judge overseeing the case in washington, d.c. is amy berman jackson, she has had a combative history with the former campaign chair. judge jackson is presiding over a series of special counsel robert mueller's cases. she has become a key figure in the larger story here. cnn's laura jarett is live in washington with much more on this. laura. >> reporter: no matter today's outcome, it will be a significant moment in the legacy of the russia investigation. paul manafort facing a tough judge, a former prosecutor, harvard educated who knows his case inside and out, and the big question is whether judge jackson is going to throw the book at him or offer some leniency. she's the judge who originally put paul manafort behind bars. now judge amy berman jackson is back in the spotlight with the power to put manafort in prison
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another ten years. >> i feel very badly for paul manafort. >> an obama appointee unanimously confirmed by the senate, jackson has been overseeing a series of cases related to robert mueller's investigation. >> what's the message you want to send to the committee today. >> reporter: including that of roger stone and rick gates and her history with manafort runs deep. she revoked his bail last june after finding he tried to coach potential witnesses, a violation that has kept him in jail ever since, and unlike ts ellis, the judge in virginia who painted manafort's crimes as an aberration in a blameless life, jackson has been unyielding in her assessment that manafort lied about matters central to the special counsel's work concluding in february he made multiple false statements about his communications with konstantin kilimnik. while his attorney says manafort has been unfairly vilified. >> there is no evidence that mr. manafort or the trump campaign colluded with the russian
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government. >> reporter: and she's shown a no nonsense approach when it comes to the cases of other trump cases as well, scolding roger stone after he posted a picture of cross hairs next to her head. jackson telling stone quote, from this moment on, the defendant may not speak publicly about the investigation or the case or any of the participants in the investigation or the case period. while manafort is facing serious time no matter how you look at it, especially given his age, stone's lawyers are trying to keep him out of jail trying to convict judge jackson he didn't violate the gag order with the rerelease of his book. stone will be in court tomorrow. >> it's promising to be an interesting week. thank you very much, laura. >> thanks. here's what else to watch today. >> nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best to make you everybody else means to
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and lori loughlin among 50 people busted in the largest college cheating scheme ever prosecuted by the justice department. the parents indicted in the probe allegedly paid bribes up
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to $6.5 million to get their children into some of america's most elite colleges. this is just, the details just get crazier. >> it really is an incredible operation varsity blues is what they called it. i love that name. it was a yearlong investigation. it included audio recordings, e-mails of parents setting up these arrangements, that's actually the evidence that investigators say they have against felicity huffman, against lori loughlin, her husband, fashion designer, huffman was in court yesterday, others are going to appear before a judge, including ceo's of major companies, athletic coaches, even a woman who coauthored an article about coddled children has been charged in this case. >> the fbi uncovered what we believe is a rigged system. >> reporter: the justice department outlining a wide ranging college admissions
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bribery scheme, charging at least 50 people including wealthy parents with paying up to $6.5 million to help their children gain admission into some of the nation's most competitive universities, including yale and stanford. >> we're talking about deception and fraud, fake test scores, fake athletic credentials, fake photographs, bribed college officials. >> reporter: the fraud allegedly two-fold, parents paying to inflate their children's standardized test scores or faking athletic records to get students recruited for sports they did not even play, in some cases going so far as to photo shop kids faces on to pictures of the athletes. the admitted master mind behind the scam, william singer who set up a fraudulent charity. >> getting into the right college will set the trajectly for the rest of your son -- trajectory for the rest of your son or daughter's life. >> pleading guilty to multiple
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charges including rack tering, saying i created a side door that would guarantee families would get in. among the parents listed in the complaint, actress lori loughlin, best known for her role as aunt becky on full house. >> we should back off, okay, we are getting frustrated and so are they. >> according to court documents, along with her husband, paid $5,000 for their daughters to gain admission into usc as rowing recruits, despite not participating in the sport. they could not be reached for comment. loughlin's daughter posted this video. >> i want the experience of game day parties, i don't care about school as you guys all know. >> also charged felicity huffman who starred on desperate house wiv wives. huffman is accused of using singer's other approach, allegedly paying $15,000 quote
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for a third party to report to proxima proctor her daughter's sat's, and secretly change the actor: her husband, actor william h. macy has not been charged in the scheme but it was in court taking notes throughout the hearing. now, singer could face up to 65 years in prison. no students were charged in this case, but authorities really didn't rule anything out saying more arrests could come in the future. no universities were charged in this case either. some schools already taking action, terminating coaches. others like usc have opened their own internal investigation. >> thank you, he wrote, really, a wonderful book on college admissions. it's called, "where you go is not who you will be." we're also joined by michael eric dyson. his book, "what true sounds
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like," a conversation about race in america. you note that this illegality, this breathtaking crime, is part of the leaching of merit out of the admissions process, to quote you. >> exactly. money and advantage have krup corrupted this process for a very long time. here we're talking about illegal activity, but it's not that far removed from what happens with parents paying money to get an edge over the less affluent kids. we need to ask how that happens and what it means. we've talked a lot politically about americans who are struggling economically and seed at the elite. when they seed at the elite and the advantages that the elite have, they're talking about college admissions. they're talking about not this particular scheme but everything
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this scheme represents, and how people of privilege exploit that to guarantee it for their kids in ways that sometimes leave less privileged families out of the equation. >> michael, how do you see it? >> that's absolutely right. if you nuance frank's important point about privilege was the issue of color. there are black people and brown people and people of color across america going, geez, you ought to know this, huh? very interesting. privilege has worked often in ways that are invisible to the radar, so to speak. so that one of the interesting things about this case is when it says, what many of the students didn't recognize they were benefiting from or advantaged by their parents' shenanigans. that's an interesting metaphor for what happens when privileged people go on to lecture people of color or underserved communities or poor people about, just work hard and you'll be able to get in. the myth of aristocracy itself is at stake here and merit is
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always determined by whatever you're competing for at that particular point. so what part of the country you're from is important. if you're competing against people who have the same test scores that you do, oh, i'm from oklahoma and we haven't admitted people from oklahoma in the past, so people are predicated on criteria they have no idea about. >> such a great point, because frank, you and i were talking about how the children of these privileged people may be oblivious to the fact that they leapfrogged everybody because they've had such lives of privilege. if you get a seat at a fancy restaurant, if you fly first class, you don't think twice that maybe your parents are going to pay a consultant to help you because you're used to slinking the road. >> a lot of these children, i think, are just used to it and it never occurred to them that this has nothing to do with merit or what they deserve and has everything to do with the
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luck of their birth. the college admissions system is sometimes about merit and just as often not. and we have created this thinking among kids that if they don't get in, it means they're less than, it means they don't deserve to. no, it just may mean they don't know how to pay the game correctly and didn't have parents to pull strings. >> so let's fix it. michael? >> when students are being taught the s.a.t. or a.c.t. preparation, when you have entire industries and cottage industries booming as a result of access to that particular good, you know a couple things. first of all, the tests don't determine intelligence, they determine test-taking skills. so we've got to distribute that more equally, right? when you're elacerating young students of color or even communities that say they have cheating scandals. oh, these minority students in these minority communities, such a shame, in atlanta and louisiana. well, good god. the reason they're trying to get a leg up is because unbeknownst
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to most of america, they know the game is rigged from the get-go. they know they have tremendous barriers to overcome. so first of all, we have to demythologize, we have to limit that test-taking character. let's talk about learning, learning for its own sake, the ability to engage in reasoned analysis of ideas. i tell my students, when you come to class, half the stuff you learn will be obsolete by the time you graduate. learn how to think. once we get to that process in admissions where we look at a broader range of considerations rather than the test scores you have and how much money your parents have, then we'll have a fair admission in colleges in this country. >> what do you think? >> i think we have to shame the
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admissions not to look at what these children had handed to him or her. if we really put public pressure, i think some will get better. some are getting better as we speak, but as this scandal shows, there are still plenty of ways in which they gain the system. >> just to go back to this actual case in and of itself, this guy william singer exploited, i think, some of the flaws in the system here. crew, getting your kids into usc for rowing crew, water polo. >> they never played them, let's just be clear. >> i know they never played them, but it's the fact that they exist and there are people already emphasizing those issues as ways to get in school. >> that's a great point, because inner city schools don't have water polo, don't have crew, don't have fencing. >> but i'll tell you what they do have. they have black kids who go to play basketball at these institutions, talk about another scandal, and people reap millions and millions of dollars of benefit from them. coaches on the sideline reaping
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5 to $10 million a year making shoe contracts a desirable commodity while we're telling the students just be grateful for the education you receive now. that's a bigger scandal. >> schools emphasizing sports over merit. let's get back to learning, i guess. gentlemen, thank you both very much for this conversation. paul manafort is about to arrive for his second sentencing in washington, d.c. these are live pictures and cnn coverage continues next. for the only fda-approved otc weight loss aid, try alli®. the sleep number 360 smart bed, from $999, intelligently senses your movement and automatically adjusts... so you wake up rested and ready for anything. save $500 on select sleep number 360 smart beds. only for a limited time. we really pride ourselvesglass, on making it easy
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very good morning to you. i'm jim scuitto. >> i'm poppy harley and we've come to a long-a waited end point in the special counsel's investigation. possibly a sequel that outdoes the original. it is the sentencing day today for paul manafort, the man who became chairman of the presidential campaign and the first one indicted in the mueller probe. less than a week after being sentenced for 47 months in prison for a series of convictions in virginia, manafort will stand before a very different judge in washington today where he could get up to 10 years for conspiracy against the united states in witness tampering. >> the man who briefly oversaw the mueller probe

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