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tv   At This Hour With Kate Bolduan  CNN  March 15, 2019 8:00am-9:00am PDT

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z. the opposite size of the pacific is reverb rating across the globe and into the u.s. this morning.
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here is what we know. 45 people across new zealand were slaughtered and a 28-year-old man is in custody and charged with murder. he is believed to have posted a manifesto on social media full of white supremacist, anti-immigrant anti-muslim language. police in several american cities have beefed up security at mosques, although the homeland security secretary says there's no credible threat in the u.s. here is how witnesses described what they saw. >> he was just conditionusly shooting and coming inside slowly because he was killing all the people in the entrance. >> after a minute, we heard the
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fighting and it was from the main entrance, the main entrance of the building. and then everybody just ran towards the back doors just to save themselves. >> there were a lot of bodies outside. so we've been waiting here just to see if our son is all right. but he's not answering his phone. >> let's go straight to new zealand to bliss savage in the city of christchurch outside a hospital. what is the latest there? >> so we haven't had a lot of new updates. after 4:00 in the morning here. the latest on the investigation still obviously very early. police are being really tight lipped about letting out too much information, but they have a man, a 28-year-old man who has been arrested and charged with murder. he will have his first court appearance tomorrow morning. a lot of vehicles have been by, heavy armed guards in front of
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the hospital behind us. we saw a lot of police that we believe to be urban search and rescue but can't confirm that. let's of press conferences. that court hearing tomorrow morning, we expect to get a lot more update. for now, we're waiting at the hospital to see what we can see. a lot of people going in and out. still 49 dead. for a country like new squeal lieutenant where there is not a lot of violence in general, it has shaken people here. >> bliss, thank you so much. i want to now go to our chief international correspondent, klarissa ward. carissa, you unfortunately have a lot of experience covering attacks of this neighborhood around the globe.
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given that and given that you are very well sourced around the globe, what are you hearing at this hour? >> we have spent the morning pouring over this 87-page manifesto in which the suspected perpetrator of this heinous terror attack isolates several main themes that he said motivated him to do this attack. he talk is a little about the invasion of muslims, how muslims are reproducing at a faster rate than white culture, and a lot of what he discuss necessary this manifesto prosecute kind of winks and nods in this sort of coded language that far right extremists use, particularly when they're communicating in these chat rooms, also in the dark web. and it appears that his primary motivation here, particularly
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with putting out this manifesto ahead of actually perpetrating the attack, is to essentially drive a wedge into civilian society, in western liberal democracies. he is deliberately trying to provoke an attack. he talks about how it's justifiable to kill children because children will one day grow into adult muslims. he's deliberately trying to tear at the fabric of western societies. and this is a trope that is very familiar to many of us that have covered isis attacks, this idea of eliminate the gray zone. we did watch that video. it is nothing short of horrific and it is designed to provoke,
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wore v horrify and terrify. >> and this is particularly on the rise where you are in europe and talk about that, about the concern that has been out there about what this is, which is white supremacy and terrorism in the name of this horrific white supremacy. >> well, this is, i think, or i hope that this will be a watershed moment. because what is shocking going through this manifesto is that some of these have now become part of our mainstream political discourse in the u.s., in many countries in europe and ideas and thoughts that were once considered to be racist, to be taboo, to be something that you would never air publicly have seeped into the mainstream. that is a big concern for
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muslims across the world who believe that culture and climate can not if actively cause, certainly encourage or create an environment in which people feel emboldened to carry out horrific attacks like this. >> thank you so much for staying on top of this. i know you will continue on be all evening. i want to talk about the post that klarissa was just talking about that could be linked to this attack. jessica, this manifesto, we are not showing it, we are not quoting from it, we are being very careful because, even though he says this is not his goal, of course the goal is to get these ideals, these horrible, horrible racist anti semantic, anti-muslim attacks out there. we do need to know about it in order to try to prevent what happens next. >> right. >> tell us just the broad
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strokes of what we know. >> yes. so klarissa there was talking about the motivations listed in the manifesto, but we know some of the logistics, as well. so the author identified himself as a 28-year-old from australia and he says quite clearly in this manifesto that he's been plotting this attack for two years now. and specifically this attack in christchurch for the past three months. he claims broadly that he didn't carry out this attack for, quote, fame, but instead, the word he uses repeatedly here is revenge. and he cites two instances in particular that started him on this path to plot this attack. and he says it was back in 2017. and one of the instances was a terror attack that happened in stockholm, sweden, where a truck plowed into a crowd killing five people. the author in particular says the death of a young girl in that terror attack particularly resinated with him and he took that attack as an attack on his own people and then vowed to
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retaliate. so that was one instance. the second trigger that he mentions is the 2017 french general election where marine la pen who had ties to the nationalist party there, she lost and emanuel mmanuel macron. he also talks about what klarissa said, trying to sow this discord. one part in particular that was chilling was he said he chose to carry out this attack in new zealand because he wanted to show the world that nowhere in the world was safe. so a lot of chilling things coming from this logistically, and also as to his motivations here. >> jessica, thank you so much for that. joining me now to talk about this former assistant secretary at homeland security and cnn national security analyst julia kayem and bobby gosh. julia, just in terms of law enforcement, what are the
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biggest priorities right now? >> well, there's a suspect in custody, so basically who he is and what his network is like and who he communicated with as well as the three others, there's -- there is a discrepancy as to how many men are in that pool and how many women. but nevertheless, whoever is a suspect is going to unleash an investigation. both in new zealand and then australia next and then to see if they had any other international ties. that will be your physical investigation on the sort of, you know, internet signal investigation you're going to be looking at the radicalization process, how come this happened two years ago, what was going on and how -- and who else were they engaged with. i am very curious about the weaponry and the access to weaponry. i wouldn't question that here in the united states. did someone bring it over from australia? was it permitted? does someone have a background in military, law enforcement?
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that will be key for this investigation. that's a piece of it that we wouldn't really think that much about in the united states. >> right. the gun laws are much stricter there. and bobby, new zealand is part of what's called the five is, which means that it shares intelligence with the united states, other allies, as well. so what is the u.s. role here in terms of the investigation? >> well, the u.s. role will have to be to see what connections, if there are any digitally, from australia and new zealand to other places around the world, to like-minded groups. it's not inconceivable that he had some contact with similar groups, people espousing similar ideas in the united states because we know there is a very large community in the u.s. off those kinds of people. and he has name checked americans. he has name checked right wing figures who gave him inspiration. now, those people may not have been directly involved, but there might be groups that were involved. i just came off reading that he had recently done a sort of
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around the world trip. we have to see if that included stops in the united states, whether he made contact with people there. but we don't -- it is too early to know whether there is an american connection, but it would not be surprising if there was one. >> right. i mean, maybe at first blush you think, well, this guy is a lone wolf or working with some of his friends there, but perhaps not and that's really important. and bobby, just to follow up on what klarissa and jessica are reporting, there are clear alarming parallels between this massacre and attacks all over the globe, including an attack on a pittsburgh synagogue in the u.s. just five months ago. you see the parallels? >> oh, it's inescapable. you look at his manifesto, 80, 90 pages, it's a distillation of the 1500 page manifesto that ander burvik, the norwegian mass murderer put out before he killed 27 people in his country and that was 2011.
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the parallels are skvery clear. there are people feeding off what in their minds would call phi as some sort of an intellectual framework or infrastructure for their way of thinking. there is a lot of written material out there. we no longer have the right, dana, to be surprised by this stuff. it is out there, it is clear. they are saying what they want to do. they say what they believe. and then they go ahead and do it. and if we don't -- if we don't stop them, if we are still saying all these years later, well, we don't have the ability to stop someone acting by themselves or in a small group around the world, then we are doing something wrong in terms of law enforcement and in terms of community management, we are doing something wrong. these are people who are clearly telegraphing their intent. >> so there's a law enforcement side that you were talking about and then there's the rhetorical
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side. julia, the official statement call this a vicious attack. president trump in his tweet called it a horrible massacre, but he didn't condemn hate. as president, wouldn't you want to distance yourself from this terrorist who apparently splexitsple splexitly aligned himself in the manifesto? >> absolutely. and you would want to align yourself with the new zealand president that this is clearly terrorism. the name game -- it's not a name game at this stage. in other words, it clearly is idealogical white supremacy terrorism driven and the president's responsibility to call it what it is is so we can identify it and begin to minimize it. i love this conversation in one
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way says we have to stop thinking about these at lone wolf attacks. 24er not. they are supported bay network of radicalization and ideaology that is ramping up this activity. now the individuals themselves who are going to kill people is fortunately very, very small. but they feed off of this public discourse, the political discourse, the discourse coming from political leaders, the discourse that facebook and twitter are refusing to take off. and we shy away from naming it because we're worried we're being too pc or we should let the free flow of ideas. but that's ridiculous at this stage. this is radicalization. it's just not isis radicalization. so somehow we seem to protect it more. words matter. we believe that in the fight against isis. that is why we condemn radicalization and islam. we must now call this what it is. it is killing more americans today than isis is and once we
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name it, then we can begin to minimize it. >> words matter. >> and then if i can add, the words also matter about how we describe the victims. i think the most important words were stated by the prime minister of new zealand when she described the victims and their families. she said they are us. that's very important, that these are not others, these are not strangers or foreigners, those are not the words we need to hear. we need to hear words that they are us. those words matter, too. >> thank you so much. appreciate that. coming up, north korea is threatening to suspend nuclear talks with the u.s. where will negotiations go from here and what does it mean for the president's relationship with kim jong-un? plus, a stinging rebuke and future fight, the senate votes to block president trump's national emergency after a dozen republicans side with democrats. now the president is set to issue his very first veto. more on that, next. (burke) at farmers, we've seen almost everything,
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north korean leader kim jong-un is considering suspending peace talks with the united states. paula hancocks has the latest. >> this could be seen as an ultimatum or something that is out of the north korean playbook, an attempt to put pressure on the united states to try and get more out of these denuclearzation talks. what we heard today was from the vice minister, talking to reporters based inside pyongyang. this is where we're getting these reports from saying the north korean leader kim jong-un is trying to decide whether or not he wants to continue these
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diplomatic talks with the united states, saying he will make that decision soon, also saying kim jong-un is trying to figure out if he wants to keep this moratorium on the nuclear and missile testing. that was a key point that the u.s. president was making as he was walking away from hanoi, saying that kim jong-un promised him that this was going to be no more testing. now, one of the things that they said was, quote, the u.s. were too busy with pursuing their own political interests and had no intention of achieving a result. interestingly, she didn't focus in a negative way on the u.s. president at all. she said it appeared as though mr. trump wanted to do more. but it was the u.s. secretary of state mike palm 35io and the national security adviser john bolton who were the culprits when it came to these talks collapsing. pointing out had the friendship between the u.s. and the north korean leader is still strong, talking about the chemistry
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being mysteriously wonderful. so at this point, it really appears as though she may be quoting kim jong-un in order to try and put more pressure on washington, to get something more out of it. donna. >> paula hancocks, thank you so much. paula mentioned the secretary of state mike pompeo. this morning, he insisted that north korea is keeping open the possibility of continued talks. here is what secretary pompeo said. >> with respect to what was said last night about chairman kim you potentially considering ending the moratorium, i can say only this. in hanoi on multiple occasions, he spoke directly to the president and made a commitment that he would not resume nuclear testing nor would he resume missile testing. so that is chairman kim's word. we have every expectation that he will live up to that commitment. >> joining me now is cnn global affairs analyst max buda. max, how do you see the statements from the north koreans? are they just trying to rattle
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the u.s. cages and pompeo was just saying i'm going to ignore it and keep on keeping on or is this a real moment of concern? >> well, you took the words out of my mouth, dana. i was just about to say that they're trying to rattle trump's cage. i think the north koreans were very disappointed with the outcome in hanoi because what they imagined was that they would symbolically shut down the nuclear reactor, one of their many nuclear sites and in return, the americans would grant them wide ranging sanctions relief and that was not an offer. and i think to president trump's credit, he did not agree to that deal which would have been a very bad deal because we know the north koreans have many other nuclear facilities and that agreement would not even touch their arsenal of nuclear weapons or missiles. but clearly the north koreans are now signaling that if you don't give us what we want, we may do something you dislike which is resuming testing of nuclear missiles because that is the one thing president trump has made clear is his red line.
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he said he is in no hurry to see them deflunuclearize. it's kind of what laborious to hear the north korean spokes woman say kim and trump have this mysterious alchemy together, but clearly the north koreans think pompeo and bolton are sabotaging a one-sided agreement which i think may be right and they're basically trying to get trump to throw his aides overboard and to make a deal with kim who he professes to love. >> they are really studying this president and he's not wrong about his top aides being more hard line on them. i want you to listen, you talk about ratcheting it up. listen to what congressman adam kinsinger said on "new day" this morning. >> here is where the president
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needs to go on this, in my view. we need to go back to having the stick option on the table. that doesn't mean threatening military action, but that means resuming the large scale military exercises, making sure sanctions are enforced. this is a time where we have to inflict pain on north korea to make it clear they're not going to do what they've been doing for 40 years down the wrong river with us. >> that is hard line. good idea? >> i mean, i think it is a good idea to resume large scale military exercises between the u.s. and south korea because by canceling those, we are weakening the alliance and we're giving in to north korean blackmail. so i think that's right. and i think it's also right to say we should emphasize the sanctions policy, the maximum pressures policy which was working in 2017, it was beginning to bite which is why the north koreans are so eager to see the sanctions lifted. but the reality is it will be impossible to return to maximum pressure because president trump has legitimized kim jong-un on the world stage.
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he's basically given him the american seal of approval and as a result of that, china and russia have ramped down sanctions enforcement. so de facto, sanctions have already been relaxed and it's going to be very hard to go back to a tougher line unless north korea tests a missile. >> yeah. and that is a about if if that happens. all betts are off. max, thank you so much for that analysis. coming up, president trump prepares to issue his first veto of his presidency. after members of his own party voted against his national emergency. will the veto come today? will we see it? that's next. mildly obsessed with numbers. so, i started with the stats regarding my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. like how humira has been prescribed to over 300,000 patients. and how many patients saw clear or almost clear skin in just 4 months - the kind of clearance that can last. humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to symptoms.
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and see how you can have an even better x1 experience. simple. easy. awesome. president trump is preparing to use his veto pen for the first time after the senate voted to block his border wall funding. the president tweeted veto after 12 gop senators voted to cross party lines and defeat the measure. what happens next? >> right now, based on our reporting, dana, the president has no hesitation about issuing the first veto on his presidency.
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republicans would go along with the president on his emergency declaration if he agreed to limit his presidential powers in the future, the president told his staff he didn't want to do that. he was ready for the fight here and he was going to frame this as a loyalty test from these republicans and see who was willing to vote with him and who was willing to buck him. over the last week, the senators have been calling the president and talking to the president about their constitutional concerns here, but the president has been largely brushing off those matters from the senators saying it's not about precedent or the constitution, instead, it's about border security. but, of course, dana, that is just not how a lot of these republicans who voted against this yesterday. they're not per se voting against the president appears border wall, they're voting against what they say is a separation of powers that is needed. but the president doesn't see it that way. that is why he has no hesitation with issuing this veto which he is expected to do this afternoon. knowing this president, it wouldn't be surprising if he did it in front of the cameras because he wants to make a show of doing had after those
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republicans went against him yesterday. >> that would be so weird if president trump wants to make a show. >> so unlike his nature. >> very much. and joining me now is former deputy chief of staff to the house majority leader and rnc communications director doug hei who is now a cnn political commentator. doug, you know the players here, meaning the 12 republicans who voted against the president. that's just what it is yesterday. you understand the dynamics within the republican party. how big of a deal is it for them to rebuke the president? >> it's a very big deal. both on this and on yemen, but especially on the wall. not just that it's 12 people, but i think the hardest thing for republicans to do these days in washington is to try and separate the politics from the permit. so much of what trump does is personality driven. and there's no issue, dana, where the personality and the policies merge on anything for trump than immigration and the wall. so for 12 members to do so, i
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think, is really significant. >> and you're just -- quickly, your home state senator, tom tillis, he did a complete 180, probably for that reason, right, that he's fait facing voters soon. >> yeah. obviously, the hardest thing for republicans in standing up to trump on an issue, especially one this personal to trump, is that donald trump is overwhelmingly popular with republican voters. not at 75%, but he's at 85% to 92%, 93% in various polls. that's true in north carolina, as well. >> yeah. and people who are not in those states and don't understand that keep saying why aren't these republicans standing up to him? that's the answer. i want to ask you about president that president trump said in an interview with breitbart news. i want to read it to you and our viewers. you know the left plays a tougher game. it's very funny. i actually think the people on the right are tougher, but they don't play it tougher, okay. i can tell you i have the support of the pris, the support of the military, the support of the bikers for trump. i have the tough people, but
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they don't play it tough until they get to a certain point and then it would be very, very bad. democratic senator herrono said that this is the president encouraging violence. what do you make of that? >> well, i would say two things. one, both sides believe that the other side fights harder and dirtier than they do and are more effective. democrats think that about republicans and republicans think that about democrats. but on trump's comments specifically, here is the challenge for the president. whether it's on this, which might be a wink and a nod towards violence, donald trump, everybody has seen so many statements from him, from his rallies and so forth, that it means when trump says something that gets close to this line, voters don't give him the benefit of the doubt. they say it as another example of him going in that direction. and it shows that trump does this often, but he also does it at his own intense. and i would argue for this white
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house, when you have gate economic news to talk about like we've had most first fridays of the month since donald trump has been president, talk about that all day every day, make that the leading issue. it's something that can rally voters, not just republican voters around you, but independent voters, as well, who want to say an effective washington. >> you are voicing the private, you know, tearing your hair out that we hear from republicans who are still on capitol hill. doug, always good to see you. thank you. >> thank you. and still ahead, a gunman appears to have live streamed the deadly mosque attacks in new zealand. and the graphic video has quickly spread online. so what are big tech companies doing to stop the spread of hate? let's see, aleve is proven better on pain
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49 people were murdered and to 20 seriously injured in a hate-filled terror attack in a mosque in new zealand. it was called one of the country's darkest days. a suspect is in custody and charged with murder. authorities found an 87-page manifesto filled with anti-immigrant, anti-muslim rhetoric. this morning, tech firms are trying to track down and delete all videos showing the massacre on their platforms.
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to talk more about that, i want to bring in christina aleshi. apparently one of the suspects was streaming this live on one of the social media platforms. >> that is correct. >> why and how did this platform not stop it? >> look, this exposes the weakness in all of these platforms. and the major companies, facebook, twitter, google, all put out statements saying that they had disabled the shooter's account and that they were trying to essentially take down all of these videos that were being shared over and over again. and i want to point out a specific section of facebook's statement that said new zealand police alerted us to a video on facebook shortly after the live stream commenced and we removed both the shooter's facebook account and the video. the big question here, dana, is why did facebook need to wait for police to tell them what was
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happening on their own platform? that is the question that many people are asking. why doesn't facebook have the technology to do that itself? we've put those questions to facebook. they have not gotten back to us. this speaks to the broader question of what is going on with these companies? why can't they develop the technology that is necessary to take down this inciteful or violent imagery and videos and pictures? look, mark zuckerberg, the ceo of facebook was in front of congress just about a year ago essentially addressing this congress, telling congress people that it's actually hate speech is very difficult to identify because it's subjective and there are nuances to language, but that the company was actually better at tracking down terrorist propaganda. take a look at this, what he told congress. contrast hate speech, for example, with an area like finding terrorist propaganda which we've been actually been very successful at deploying
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a.i. tools already. this is going to open up the companies for criticism that they are not prioritizing this. part of the problem technologically is at their core, these companies are designed to make sure that video is spread and shared. so if they develop technology to counter that, it's kind of going against their fundamental dna, dana. >> that is a great point. amy klobuchar, candidate for president, told our colleague, poppy harlow is that is one of the problems, that her colleagues have their head in the sand mostly because they don't understand this technology. thank you so much. i want to get straight to new zealand. joining me now is chelsea daniels with the new zealand herald. chelsea, you have been talking to eyewitnesss. what are you hearing? >> there are some pretty harrowing stories coming out from those first few moments
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that this started to happen this afternoon. at 1:40 p.m., we spoke to a man who was driving past, saw people running from the mosque wondering what is going on there. and then he started seeing them drop one by one. he told us that he held a 5-year-old girl in his arms who was shot, waiting for an ambulance to arrive. her father had also been shot. ambulances weren't being let past that cordon because police didn't know what the current situation was. and so that man, in an act of heroism, got another man to take the little girl to the hospital which is only about half a mile, a mile away from the scene. on their own. stories like that, there's another man there at the scene who said that he had cradled a
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man in his arms who had been shot in the back three times and he ended up dieing in his arms despite all the encouragement that he got. so these are some of the things that we're hearing from the scene. >> these are families, these are, you know, people who were in the moment praying, praying at a house of worship when they were absolutely slaughtered. those are horrific stories. but you're also hearing some stories of acts of heroism. what can you tell us about that? >> i mean, these people, when these people stopped as they saw people running out of that mosque, i mean, they knew, they heard the shots, but they decided to stop and try and get these people to safety behind cars, in buildings. they tried to help people, obviously, like i said, as well, take them to hospital before
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ambulances arrived. this is the real spirit of the people of christchurch. they've been through a lot, as you already know. christchurch, earthquakes, more earthquakes and fires. these are the stories we heard then and the kind of stories we're hearing now. >> chelsea daniels with "the new zealand herald." thank you so much for that report. appreciate it. coming up, panic in the cockpit. new information that the pilot of the ethiopian airlines boeing 737 had problems right away. what his final messages reveal about the minutes before the crash. no, i can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on our car insurance with geico. we could have been doing this a long time ago. so, you guys staying at the hotel? yeah, we just got married. oh ho-ho! congratulations! thank you. yeah, i'm afraid of commitment... and being boiled alive. oh, shoot. believe it. geico could save you 15% or more on car insurance. that guy's the worst.
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to help protect yourself from a stroke. itreat them all as if, they are hot and energized. stay away from any downed wire, call 911 and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe.
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investigators have started processing information from the black boxes from ethiopian airlines flight 302. this comes as new details reveal what the final moments were like before the crash. according to "the new york times," the pilot requested to return to the airport in a panicked voice just minutes after takeoff, when the plane started accelerating to abnormal speeds. on the flight recorder, the pilot was heard telling air traffic controllers, "brake, brake, request back to home, request vector for landing." once the call came in, controllers scrambled to divert two other flights approaching the airport. want to get to cnn correspondent oren liebermann, who is following these developments. oren, what is happening right now where you are, behind you? >> reporter: just a short while ago right here behind us at bea, the french aviation investigators, they began to inspect and process the so-called black boxes, the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder from ethiopian airlines flight 302. this is a slow, painstaking
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process, beginning with a visual inspecti inspection, then those recorders need to be opened up, the electrical components need to be inspected one by one, and only then can you begin to download all of the raw data from the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder. a source close to the investigation tells us that the flight data recorder, the electrical component that stores that data appears from a visual inspection to be in pretty good shape. but of course, he cautioned that it could turn out that as you begin to analyze it, that there is some missing data here from the flight data recorder itself. at that point, if all goes well, this could take to the end of the weekend, sometime saturday night into sunday until all of that data is downloaded, and then it's turned over to ethiopian authorities. at that point, dana, it's up to them, if the ethiopian authorities want to come here to bea or go to the ntsb to start to analyze that data and glean what they can from the information from the cockpit voice recorder and the flight data recorder. >> so it's a painstaking slow process, which i guess we want when we're talking about airline safety, but what has boeing been doing in the meantime when all
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of these planes across the world are grounded? >> reporter: dozens of countries have at this point grounded the 737 max 8 and 9 series. boeing followed suit. the faa essentially having them follow suit. boeing has announced that they'll continue construction of the airplane. it is one of their latest aircraft here, but they announced they will pause deliveries, and they say they're essentially monitoring the situation and working with investigators. the question now, how long will the grounding last? and that's a very difficult question to answer at this point. if this is simple, conceivably, it could be a shorter grounding of the 737 max series, but if this is something that requires new software and a recertification, this could be a very long process and a very painful one for boeing at that. >> okay. oren liebermann, thank you so much for that report. we have much more on the breaking news in new zealand coming up. john king picks up right after a quick break. usa. this is a very difficult job. failure is not an option. more than half of employees across the country
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and it's simple, easy, awesome. welcome to "inside politics." i'm john king. thank you for sharing this busy news day with us. hate and terror in new zealand. nearly 50 dead, dozens more wounded by gunfire that interrupted friday prayer at two mosques. plus, president trump ready to issue the first vite-off of his presidency after a dozen republicans broke from the white house and rejected his declaration of an emergency at the southern border. and north korea says it may end nuke lure talks with the white house and go back to missile launches and weapons testing. they say they get along fine with the president, but his national security adviser and secretary of state are too rigid. >> the

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