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tv   CNN Newsroom with Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto  CNN  August 12, 2019 7:00am-8:00am PDT

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dramatic an impact as the markets might be signaling at this moment, but i think you've got to look at that carefully. all right. it's a fascinating interview. you can watch much more of it, go to cnn business.com. top of the hour, good morning, everyone, i'm poppy harlow. the autopsy is done and the results are pending and the more we learn about jeffrey epstein's apparently suicide, the more questions everyone has. why wasn't the accused sex trafficker and sex offender being monitored, why was he alone in his cell after just coming off of suicide watch? any moment now the attorney general bill barr will speak publicly about the epstein case. barr says he was appalled when he first heard about epstein's suicide. he has ordered the department of justice inspector general and the fbi to investigate what
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happened. let's begin this hour with my colleague, polo sandoval. he is in lower manhattan at the correctional center. and that is a facility that is just so used to holding high-profile inmates like this. >> reporter: and poppy, that really does expand this case even beyond that prosecution of this suspected sex trafficker that was able to take his own life, because it certainly calls into question some policies and procedures that have been implement in the correctional facility in lower manhattan, because it has housed other notable figures that have been prosecuted by the federal government from paul manafort and el chapo who was just released from here so he could serve his life sentence elsewhere. some facts are suggesting that policies were not followed that loud jeffrey epstein to take his
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own life. some of the failures include him not being constantly supervised. the inmates are supposed to be checked on every 30 minutes and a source familiar with his time is telling us that was not done. and then secondly, poppy, he was potentially left alone in that cell. the policies and procedures require inmates fresh off of suicide watch to not be left alone in those cells and we are now hearing at this point that that was not certainly done. so that is something that not just the fbi but the department of justice and office of inspector general are looking into and we could potentially hear the attorney general address that in the next few minutes. >> the question becomes, just before you go, about the guards. why was he left alone in a cell with no cell mate. they're supposed to check on him every 30 minutes. he's as high profile as you get. are any of the guards facing potential charges? >> we do understand that there
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could be potential charges and that's only according to the source, that's only a variable to determine if they could have potentially falsified any kind of documents that would detail those 30-minute checkups that they're supposed to do as they do their rounds through the especial special housing unit. but at this point no information has been released from officials that would indicate that they're going in that direction, but that includes one possible outcome here. we should note, though, that the bureau of prisons has not commented regarding this new reporting. >> i appreciate your reporting, polo. thank you very much. joining me to discuss the vicky ward and cnn legal analyst. good morning, guys. >> good morning. >> vicky, welcome. we're thrilled to have you. so can you just update me on some of your reporting? there's a lot of talk this morning about epstein's friend, a british socialite.
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what do we know about her and that relationship. >> so ghislaine was the perfect front for jeffrey epstein. very well educated, went to oxford university, very clever, was the daughter of robert maxwell, very famous newspaper owner and businessman in brittain who died in very peculiar circumstances, disappearing off his yacht named after his daughter, it was called the lady ghislaine. a lot of people thought her relationship with jeffrey epstein was about money. after her father died he was discovered to have been a fraudster. there was a disgrace and one of her brothers went to prison. but jeffrey epstein paid for ghislaine to have the kind of lifestyle that she had grown up and was accustomed to. the question is what did she do
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for him in return? >> because there are a number of women who say in this unsealed indictment that she did things, like go out to them and convince them, young girls, teenagers, to come to his house. >> yes, and back in 2002 when i was reporting this story about jeffrey epstein for "vanity fair", i had two sisters who have since gone on the record and signed affidavits and they said that what happened, particularly to the younger sister, to anyone who was underage when jeffrey epstein allegedly molested her, could never have happened without ghislaine, because ghislaine got on the telephone to her mother and said she would be there over the weekend as a chaperone and she was convincing. >> paul, this brings your expertise to the floor. and that is you point out that any individual who may have
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conspired with jeffrey epstein in the crime of human trafficking can be investigated, can be indicted. obviously ghislaine is going to be someone that authorities are looking at. how likely is it that this could reach her? >> i think you're going to see an intense investigation. berman from the southern district of new york is saying this is not over and we continue to look at this case carefully. i think this is a huge embarrassment for the department of justice because they signed off on this immunity agreement that was negotiated by the southern district of florida, acosta, the u.s. attorney, our labor secretary had to step down really because of the scandal related to that. >> i should note that ghislaine maxwell and her team has denied any such allegations. but you raise a really interesting possibility, paul, that the epstein estate may actually bring a malpractice
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suit against any psychiatrist or psychologist who recommended that epstein be taken off suicide watch in the prison. >> i know this sounds crazy, but i've done a lot of medical malpractice litigation in my career and i have seen the strangest suits against psychiatrists and psychologists, and there are many such suits where somebody commits suicide while under psychiatric care and the psychiatrist gets sued for recommending release from a psychiatric institution, or in this case putting epstein in a step-down unit. this was not a psychiatric unit or a hospital unit that epstein was held in, in such a short period after he had made a suicide attempt. i question by saying even though it's theoretically possible to do this, i don't think epstein is going to make a very sympathetic victim in this case. so technically you might have a case, but it wouldn't be one that i would take. >> vicky, as you noted you've been reporting on jeffrey epstein for well over a decade,
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since you wrote about him in 2002. what's your read on whether his alleged victims and accusers will see any form of justice? >> so i spoke to one of their lawyers this morning and, you know, right now they're in a holding pattern. did jeffrey epstein who has no heirs, did he have a will? if so, which jurisdiction is that will under? for the moment, the victims' lawyers cannot do anything. these answers will come, but we don't have them yet. >> paul, what about you? lisa broom is representing two of the women and she has callen for his estate to be frozen, all of the assets so they can be paid out. how likely do you think it is that these women will receive compensation? >> it all depends on what's in the estate. i understand why lisa bloom
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would be concerned about this. i was one of the attorneys on the oj simpson case, and while we proved that he committed the murder, collecting the $32 million was almost an impossiblibility. only a small amount was collected because the funds had dissipated by the times the verdicts came down. the victims in this case may have the same problem and is jeffrey epstein an empty suit? how did he make his money? what is in his estate and where is his estate? these are all questions that will affect the victims of the many crimes he undoubtedly committed while he lived. >> many more questions than answers this morning. vicky and paul, nice to have you. still to come for us, the push for gun contr legislation moving at a glacier pace. the call for mitch mcconnell to take some action.
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i'm poppy harlow in new york, and more than a week after two more mass shootings and lawmakers have taken no action on gun control. right now it is weeks before either the house or the senate will be back in session. more than 200 democrats in
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congress have signed a letter calling on senate majority leader mitch mcconnell to bring the senate back right now. mo mcconnell has yet to commit to any proposals and trump has wafld on background checks which he said he would previously support. this is one of the democrats that signed the letter to mcconnell. thank you for being here. >> thank you, poppy, for having me back. >> of course. look, the majority leader, mitch mcconnell, has said that this issue, gun control, will be front and center when congress comes back into session, let's wait and see if anything is different this time. you've signed this letter. your fellow democrat in congress and the house al green said on this program to jim just last week that it's a mistake for you guys not to be in washington right now. sit a leadership mistake in the democratic party not to bring the house back to session right now to be on the floor debating this? >> well, certainly when it comes
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to background checks legislation, bear in mind in the house we passed that legislation exactly six months ago. >> i understand, hr-8 and 11, 12. i hear you, but should you be there -- >> the first thing -- >> go ahead. >> the first thing is for mitch mcconnell to call back the senate and move your background checks bill, which i believe does have a chance of passing the senate. maybe not the 60 votes, but certainly clearing the 51 vote threshold. that's been the main focus. i would be willing to go back to the house -- i'm have philadelphia and i know you brought up the mass shootings that happened in el paso and dayton, and understandably. so let's not forget that right here in my home town of philadelphia where i represent, 12 people were shot over this weekend. so the philadelphias of the country, the chicagos, the other places where we have a slow-rolling mass shooting every single week also need attention,
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which is why washington needs to act. now, as far as thi willingness to go back to washington, i would be willing to go back. but let's not allow that to delve into some sort of false equivalency. mitch mcconnell has been in the pocket of the nra for far too long doing their bidding. he needs to stop blocking the background checks bill and move it through the senate. >> i would like to get through two proposals. first of all, would you vote for a stand-alone red flag law? >> it would depend on what exactly that means and is in it. i do get -- i would support red flag legislation, however if that is suddenly the beginning and the end of the gun control conversation, that would concern me deeply. >> so listen to this from your fellow democratic, former member of congress now running for president, beto o'rourke.
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here's his exchange with jake tapper this weekend. >> reporter: you were asked in may whether you supported a plan for federal gun licensing. you said it might go too far. i'm wondering what you think after the el paso and dayton massacres did if you feel the same way. that's a proposal some of your other rivals are talking about. >> we should do it. we should have a national licensing program in this country. >> do you agree with him? >> it's an interesting idea. i happen to be a co-sponsor on every gun control legislation that is out there, was as a state legislator and had been for the last five years in congress. that is not one that has been on the forefront of the agenda. we do license every single automobile vehicle, though not at the federal level, at the state level. so it seems to me if something like an automobile is licensed, there shouldn't be any problem with some sort of database in
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terms of guns given the danger they present. that said, though, would it be the most effective way to reduce gun violence? probably not. i think there are other measures. we talked about background checks. limiting magazine clip size. the fact that these shooters had been able to get off two rounds a second, the ability to shoot over 20 people within one minute, just one minute of damage, can cost us about two dozen lives. that's something that we really need to address. >> look at the images. exactly. so on the rhetoric, on the issue, on what we saw in the manifesto from the shooter in el paso, a number of your democratic colleagues, as you know, in the last week have gone so far as to call the president a white supremacist. on july 16th, you tweeted the president is, quote, a racist. do you, congressman, also think that the president is a white
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supremacist? >> this is something that i've really wrestled with, because i think language matters and we have to be careful with how we address these things. when it comes to specifically the el paso shooter, ultimately the responsibility is borne by that person who picked up the gun and squeezed the trigger and killed those people. however, i do believe responsibility also lies with the person who inflamed the shooter, who gave him his cause in life that he was looking for. the fact that you had this mass murderer out of el paso quote almost verbatim lines that president trump has used, the fact that he drove the length of texas, about a ten-hour drive to go to an overwhelmingly hispanic city because he purposely wanted to murder hispanics and he was
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using the same rhetoric that president trump has used, yes, i do believe that president trump bears some responsibility for that action. all of us as leaders have a deep moral responsibility to be the sort of leaders in society that model good behavior and that bring out the best in our people. and when we don't have that at the very top, it leads to the sort of consequences that we're now dealing with. >> a number of republicans and the president's defenders have pointed to the language used by the shooter at the congressional baseball game, a bernie sanders supporter as well and have said bernie sanders is no more responsible for that than president trump is for this shooting. what do you say in response? and answer my question, do you agree with your fellow graduates that have called the president a white supremacist? >> well, first, what happened to my colleague steve scalise, and
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i was on the baseball team at the same time, it was absolutely horrific. i think all of us have to be careful about our language, anyone who has a meg phone, the biggest is the white house. but let's not delve into some sort of false equivalency. bernie sanders has never used the kind of language or attempted to stigmatize a group of people the way president trump has with the minorities or others who are the quote, unquote, other in society. in terms of your question about the president being a white supremacist, there's no question that he has used the language of white supremacy and white nationalism to attempt to inflame things. so he either trulily believes it or dunt believe it but doesn't really care and is willing to sus it in a cynical way to gin up support.
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either is wrong and deeply immoral. >> thank you for your time this morning, congressman boyle. ahead to iowa, we go to democratic hopefuls barnstorming the state in weekend. in a few minutes you're going to hear from california senator and presidential candidate kamala harris. she will be live from iowa right here. (kickstart my heart by motley crue)) (truck honks) (wheels screeching) (clapping) (sound of can hitting bag and bowl)
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president, former white house communications director anthony scarmucci, really a loyalist changing his tune on the president this morning with a new interview with cnn. he says that the republican should consider replacing the president on the 2020 ticket. listen to this. >> i think you have to consider a change at the top of the ticket when someone is acting like this, when someone is that lax of intellectual curosity to take ideas from friends. i think the policies are good for the american people but the rhetoric is so charged and divisive that we have to all just take a step back and say what are we doing, actually. so one thing that i find reprehensible and the president continues to do this and i think what will end up happening is sound and reasonably-minded men and women in the republican
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party will say we can't do this. he is giving people a license to hate, to provide a source of anger to go after each other and he does it on his twitter account. >> cnn politics reporter and editor at large is with me now. it's very hard to get anthony car scarmucci to go in the spot light and talk. >> it is, very difficult. >> but that aside, it is somewhat meaningful, is it not, to hear someone who is the white house communications director compare the president to a meltdown of cher noble? >> people will say he was only communications director for eleven days. that's less important actually than the fact that he is a trump business associate and long-time friend long before donald trump got into politics. this is someone who knows him. you can't dispute that no matter how much time he spent on the official staff. .2, in listen to the scarmucci interview on "new day," poppy, this is donald trump, the idea
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that donald trump goes on twitter and does things that aren't presidential and he bullies people and he provides cover for hate mongers? he's been doing this. this is the two-year anniversary of the charlottesville white nationalist protest of violence that donald trump came out and said was due to bad actors essentially on both sides. so we can go two years before that. this is who the man is. that's the only reason i would say as it relates to scarmucci, if he just had this revelation, he's not been spending enough time on planet earth because which is who donald trump has been virtually his whole life. >> he said something that struck me in the interview. it was about the economy. he talked about the fed and why would the fed have to cut rates if the economy were so strong. and the economy has been propping up this president a lot. and i guess i just wonder if you think if the economy does turn south, his voice could be echoed in more and more business
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leaders who like the policies of the president like this bull run we've had, but hate the rhetoric, that they may elevate their voice? >> i think that the thing with trump's presidency, it's well, everything about him i don't like, but as it relates to the business world. and the but is, well, the economy is doing well. businesses like the corporate tax cuts, et cetera, et cetera. so it's one of those things that it keeps i think a lot of them in the fold because they're seeing profits. there's sort of an economic optimism. i don't know at this point, poppy, if it changes anyone's mind. if it goes south, sure, maybe a few more of them speak out. but i will stel you the idea that scarmucci proposed that the party needs to think seriously about replacing donald trump, that will never happen. the people who would do that are the same people who tried to keep donald trump from the nomination in 2016 and you know how that one turned out.
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remember, he is very popular, very popular among republicans. and anthony scarmucci is a prominent voice, but he is by far not representative of that republican base that is still with trump. 85%, 95%. >> fair enough. always good to have your voice. thank you so much. >> always a pleasure. >> let's go to iowa. today 2020 hopeful kamala harris is wrapping up a week of barnstorming the state. the california senator is on the last leg of a five-day bus tour hoping to gain momentum ahead of the iowa caucuses, just five months away. dozens of democrats descended on iowa paying to a campaign right of passage that is the iowa state fair. joining me to discuss is the chief politics reporter for the des moines register. good morning, and have you had your fill of iowa state fair food yet? >> yes, i've perhaps had too much. >> i think i would do the same at the minnesota state fair.
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let's begin with this and biden the front-runner, even though elizabeth warren has been creeping up on him, he's still around 30% among democrats. but he's had these verbal miscues, these gaffes, moments where he says things that aren't true and don't totally make sense. do the voters care in iowa? >> i think yes and no. in talking with some of the people who were in the room when he's made some of these comments, some people give him the benefit of the doubt. they say he misspoke and immediately corrected himself, we get it. but some people worry that it's becoming a pattern and this has been a pattern for him in the past. they worry about going up against donald trump. these are voters who are desperate to defeat the president, so they want someone who is going to be on their game at all times. so i do think it is starting to creep into the mindset. i don't know that it's dissuading any of joe biden's
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staunch supporters at the moment, but it is an concern for some people. >> there is an interesting piece over the weekend that caught my attention about biden and specifically iowa and the democrats in iowa. it was by "the new york times" nate cohen. he talked about this. the cause of mr. biden's weakness in iowa is fairly obvious. ice national edge is attributable to an edge among black voters, and relatively speaking there aren't many black voters in iowa. and cory booker and kamala harris are focus a lot of attention now on south carolina. what do you the make of that strategy? >> joe biden still has a lot of support in iowa. you can't forget that he's campaigned here twice in the past. so when he goes around and he says i have a lot of friends in iowa, he means that. these are people that he's met and has maintained relationships with. and cory booker, for example, has scaled up his iowa operations faster than a lot of the other campaigns so he's
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competi competing here as well. >> on booker, the polling hasn't caught up. he's still polling around 1 to 3%. do you expect that to change in iowa soon? >> it's tough to predict what the polls are going to do, but what i do think about cory booker in iowa is he has the infrastructure to capitalize on that moment if and when it does happen. we looked at pete buttigieg early on and he had this big moment and caught fire and he did not have the staff on the ground at that time to really turn it to support here on the ground. so booker is positioned well if it does happen. >> good to have you on. thank you. kamala harris is wrapping up her bus tour around iowa. first, though, she is with us live in burlington, iowa. kyung, take it away. >> good morning. this is the last day.
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we are wrapping this bus tour with senator harris and we started out talking about your bus tour. we are now in the final day. i want to first talk a little bit about some news this morning. anthony scarmucci, you're familiar with who he is, says that he is now neutral on the president. he is not intending to vote for a democrat. do you need to win over disaffected republicans like him and how are you going to do it? do you need them in order to win? >> as far as i'm concerned, i need everybody and i plan on competing for everyone's vote and earning everyone's vote. and i'll tell you why. listen, i am a proud democrat and i also know that what the american people want, and their president is someone who is focused on the things that keep them up at night, the things that are weighing on them, their immediate issues and concerned. and i'm prepared to address those. and so many of those, really, are experience not through the lens of the party with which people are registered to vote,
Check
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it's just life. >> reporter: what is your message to someone who is disaffected? >> here's part of the message. donald trump betrayed a lot of people. he came in office making all kinds of promises to working people, from farmers to auto workers. we've been here in iowa on our bus tour for five days and i've been here many times before that. iowa farmers, many of them are looking at bankruptcy. soybeans rotting in bins because of donald trump's so-called trade policy, which is betrayed any tweet in a way that has cut off a market that they cultivated over ten years and now they're looking at bankruptcy. he said he was going to help working people and he passed a tax bill benefiting the richest people. and it is estimated that as many as 300,000 auto workers may be out of a job before the end of the year. you look at the fact that american families, because of the so-called trade policy, are paying $1.4 billion a month on
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everything from shampoo to washing machines. he made a lot of promises and has betrayed a lot of people. infrastructure week, i guess we slept through that one. >> reporter: let's talk about something that he is announcing today. the trump administration released a regulation that could drastically cut the number of legal immigrants allowed to enter the u.s. by making it easier to reject green cards and visa applications. coupled with what we just saw out of mississippi, the i.c.e. operation there, what does this say to you? >> well, it's just an ongoing campaign of his to vilify a whole group of people, as he does with so many things and be ignorant about the history of our country, who we are, how we were founded and what our values are. and also this is an issue that when i look specifically at what he's been doing with these raids, i sat on the homeland security committee, i was the attorney general of california
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and a district attorney before that, i took on trans-national criminal organizations. i'm going to tell you put those resources where they need to be because there are limited resources. instead, this guy donald trump wants to send our military to the border to have some grand display based on his agenda about vilifying people and building a wall which will never get built, because he wants everyone to be distracted from the fact that he has betrayed so many people and has actually done very little that has been productive in the best interest of american families. and now he is criminalizing people, innocent people. he is locking babies up in cages. he has a policy of separating children from their parents in the name of border security when it's a human rights abuse being committed by the united states government. in the most recent raids in mississippi, almost half of the people that they detained had to be let go because the policy was indiscriminate. there were children who were detained and they didn't reach
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out to child protective services. it is inhumane what he has been doing and it is not in the best interest of our values or who we are or limit resources or anything that's really productive. this is a guy who likes to create drama and then is the hero to fix it instead of dealing with the real issues that need to be fixed for american families. fix the eroding bridges and roads. i mean, i can go through a whole list. deal with climate change, because guess what, it's real and it's a crisis. and wind turbines do not cause cancer. i could go through a whole list that is misplaced priorities by this administration and president. >> reporter: we'll chat a little bit about iowa since we are in iowa. joe biden has been in iowa. he has misspoken a number of times while he is here and i want to read you a quote. quote, there is starting to be a real fear that he can not hold his own in the debate against
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donald trump. do you share that concern about the former vice president? >> i think that -- you can ask his campaign about that. >> reporter: are you concerned about the misspeaking? >> i think that you have to ask his campaign about that. i think he has explanations for what he has said and so you'll have to talk to them about it. >> reporter: we have spent five days with you here in iowa. it's been a long five days from the iowa state fair to going to farms to your various rallies. >> it's been great. i've enjoyed it. >> reporter: you've committed time and resources. are you signaling an overall shift because of the time and resources you've spent here in iowa that you need to win iowa? because there was this intentional amount of time you were spending previously in south carolina. >> well, no, it's about an overall plan, which is to spend a lot of time in each of these places. i intend to earn the support of people, and that means i intend to work to do that.
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and so that's about spending time and it's about listening as much if not more than i talk, so that at the end of this process not only do we win, but that we will be relevant. that is very important to me. and so this five-day bus tour has been about just five continuous days of being able to frankly go to places where there may not be an airport, but there are people who deserve to be heard and seen. and i'm really enjoying it. >> reporter: and to the people of south carolina, that initial strategy of leaning into the diverse vote, especially women in south carolina, what do you say to that group of voters? >> i want to earn your vote and i intend to earn it. and i'm going to work at it and, you know, listen, i think that it's really important in a campaign, much less in politics or in life, to not assume that one group is to the exclusion of the other. because when i talk with mothers in south carolina or i talk with mothers in iowa, the thing that
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wakes them up in the middle of the night is usually the same thing. i'll give you an example. one of the big issues in south carolina and in iowa is teacher pay. the number of teachers i have met in both states were working two and three jobs. in south carolina last year, 5,000 teachers had to leave the profession because they couldn't afford to do the work. they couldn't afford to put food on the table and follow their passion, which is to teach our children. one of my first conversations as a candidate in iowa was just about that. which is why my policy is a policy of making what will be the history of our country is first federal investment in closing the teacher pay gap. $13.500 for most places, that's a year's worth of mortgage payments. it's a year's worth of grocery bills or it means putting a significant dent in student loan debt, which is one of the greatest barriers to our students coming out and joining a profession for which had they have a passion. these issues are the same
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issues, be it talking to a mom in south carolina or a mom in iowa. and i guess that's also part of what i'm really enjoying about the process, is pointing out the commonalities. while we have a donald trump in the white house who is spending full-time trying to sew hate and division at us and have folks pointing fingers at each other, i'm experiencing what i've always known. the vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us. >> congratulations on a very long five days. >> thank you. it's been fun, though. >> she ate a fork chop on a stick and she did find it to be delicious. >> ask senator harris if she has had cheese curds yesterday. >> we didn't stop there. i noticed it and we walked by
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it. there's a whole cheese curd thing they do. they do it with bacon wrapped up with a jalapeno pepper. >> we could go on and on. >> i'm waiting for that. you're not a true state fairgoer in my book unless you've had chee cheese curds. thank you very much. we're going to take a quick break but an important date to mark. two years ago today heather highly was killed by protesting in south carolina h. let's see, aleve is proven better on pain
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two years ago today, heather heyer died when a neo-nazi drove into a protest that she pass part of in charlottesville, virginia. last month her killer received a second life sentence. her death is not included in the database of hate crimes. >> reporter: the murderous rev of a mussel car driven by a neo-nazi barreling into a crowd of counter-protesters, injuring three dozen and killing heather heyer. >> i miss hi kid a lot.
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>> exactly a year to the day before heather heyer was killed, a racist shot and killed another man in tulsa, oklahoma. the two cases made head lines, the consequences of the rise of hate in america. how is it possible two pub pli sized hate crimes still do not exist in the data reports? >> reporter: what was your thought when you first saw this data was missing? >> what i first thought was wtf, because if that's not a hate crime, what is? >> reporter: cnn wanted to find out why the two cases weren't listed among the federal reports that illustrate how large or small a problem is. in charlottesville we sat down with police chief who took the job about ten months after heyer was killed. >> the numbers and the fbi data do not reflect a single hate crime from august of 2017.
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how is that possible? >> even the federal government did not categorize this as a hate crime until well after a year later. >> but the data collection starts at the local level and it was charlottesville police that initially did not report this incident at a hate crime. >> the fact that this happened hat a time when you had literal neo-nazis coming out to the streets, it seems impossible not to look at this as a bias-based crime. >> a lot of information that was being uncovered about the suspect was uncovered after the fact. most people do not want to make a mistake and categorize something as a hate crime that can not be proven. >> that's not the federal standard. the idea is not that you have to be in the perpetrator's mind to understand exactly what happened at that time. >> reporter: was a researcher at the american arab institute that first discovered the missing data. >> how did you discover that heather heyer's death was not
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counted as a hate crime. >> for years the jabara family endured harassment by their next door neighbor, stanley majors. >> he kept saying you filthy lebanese, get out of here. >> in 2016 majors ran over her nearly killing her. police wrote that when arrested, majors said they were filthy leeb knees. 11 months later, the son called her to warn her not to come home. majors was fighting with his husband and she had called 911 because she had seen majors with a gun. khalid was shot while on the phone with his mother. >> there was not one single day that i don't remember my son. >> but police still haven't reported the killing as a hate crime because they struggled with majors' intent. >> did the murder happen because he was upset that 911 was called, did the murder happen because he didn't like the friendship that his husband had
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with ka lead, or did the murder happen because mr. majors didn't like lebanese people living next door to him? >> prosecutors went forward charging and convicting him not just of the murder, but malicious harassment which is a hate crime under oklahoma law. >> i don't know of a more clear-cut case as it relates to hate crime. he was charged and convicted from oklahoma's hate crime laws. >> correct. >> should he have been counted? >> yes. >> would you say it fell through the cracks? >> when you look at it statistically, i could see how it could be viewed as falling through the case. >> these cases illustrate a national problem. hate crime reporting is not federally mandated. several states do have mandatory reporting laws but numbers published by the fbi show about 87% of police agencies that sent in data reported zero hate crimes in 2017. in 2018 at a congressional hearing, former deputy assistant
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attorney general roy austin explained the problem this way. >> we do not have the slightest idea how many hate crimes there are in america and we have never known. the numbers currently kept by the fbi are largely useless. >> the fbi agrees that the data is not at all accurate because it says it continually faces the issue of underreporting at the victim and law enforcement levels, and faces the problem of law enforcement training on classifying hate crime incidents. the latter is what a new bill is trying to help fix. it's called the jabara/heyer no hate act, offering incentives to departments for reporting hate crimes. >> people don't understand how data can impact policy, how policy can impact people. >> but right now america doesn't know how big its hate problem is. these families say that must change to save the next family from heart ache. >> sara si, thank you for that
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important reporting. the charlottesville police department told us it has updated its data in the state of virginia in april of this year but it may never be updated in the federal report. the fbi updated those back in 20126789 thank you so much for joining me today. i'm poppy harlow. i'll see you tomorrow morning. at the how are with kate bolduan is up next.
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bolduan. thank you so much for joining me. this morning the death and now the questions. new details are coming in surrounding the apparent suicide of jeffrey epstein inside a federal jail here in manhattan. attorney general bill barr says he is appalled by what happened, vowing to investigate. the attorney general spoke just moments ago. listen. >> this sex trafficking case was very important to the department of justice and to me personally. it was important to the dedicated prosecutors in the southern

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