tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN September 25, 2019 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
>> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. and we continue on. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. thanks for being with me on a very busy news day. president trump will soon sit down with ukrainian president zelensky. and the impeachment inquiry over the july 25th phone call between these two men but something happened on the way to the united nations adding month are fuel to the fire. this morning at the president's request the white house released a five-page rough transcript of that call and afterward says there's basically nothing to see here. >> the letter was a great letter. meaning the letter revealing the call that was done at the insistence of myself and other
people that read it. it was a friendly letter. there was no pressure. the way you had that built up that call was going to be the call from hell. it turned out to be a nothing call other than a lot of people said i never knew you could be so nice. >> here are the facts. that transcript shows this was anything but a nothing call. at one point the president tells ukraine's newly elected leader the u.s. "has been very, very good to ukraine adding that the generosity was not reciprocated. zelensky responds saying ukraine wants to buy more anti-tank missiles from the u.s. prompting this response from president trump. he said this -- i would like you to do us a favor, though. a favy that included investigating a u.s. cyber security firm named crowdstrike and separately investigating joe biden's son. president trump then promised to connect ukraine's president with his own personal attorney, rudy giuliani and attorney general
big barr. house speaker nancy pelosi called it a shakedown that confirmed the need for an impeachment inquiry and house intelligence chief adam schiff summed it up this way. >> the notes of the call reflect a conversation far more damning than i or many others had imagined. it is shocking at another level that the white house would release this, these notes, and felt that somehow this would help the president's case or cause. this is how a mafia boss talks. what have you done for us? we've done so much for you. but there's not much reciprocity. i have a favor to ask you. what is that favor? of course, the favor is to investigate his political rival. to investigate the bidens. and it's clear that the ukraine president understands exactly what is expected of him. >> kaitlan collins one of cnn's white house correspondents and former attorney general for the
state of new jersey and senior legal analyst and a spokeswoman for the u.s. mission to the united nations. so welcome to all of you, and let's hit it quickly round robin. this rough transcript. why did president trump think that releasing it would be a good idea? >> the white house and the president's allies think this clears him. they say there has been a buildup over the past days made it sound like the president explicitly threatened to withhold military aid, if they didn't invest gate joe biden and his son's business activeies and thought when they came out it would prove the president right. of course, that has not been the reaction to it that you've seen and the question is whether or not the president and how he's going to react to this, because he was the one who thought it would be a good idea to release it after having that phone call with nancy pelosi yesterday morning where they talked about the whistle-blower's complaint. he thought it would clear him. >> the president trying to get ahead of it, the story was mushrooming and the president's
argues there's no quid pro quo in this. it's a strange analysis what i think is an incredibly damning letter and i think it's the wrong question ask. >> legally speaking, most damning in a second. why do you think it's -- >> end of the day he doesn't think he did anything wrong. releasing white house transcripts is not a common practice. i was at the white house we did numerous calls. they're not even shared within the government. to release it is a big step and i think they think he did nothing wrong. it's a pattern for him. back to the campaign working with the russians, they don't anything anything wrong of it. >> what do you think from a legal perspective, the most damning piece? >> i've been a criminal prosecutor a long time and prosecuted democratic and republican politicians for political corruption. i think the president is saying this very narrowly as a political corruption case. my personal view is i think there are criminal violations here, very likely to exist. this isn't really about this. this is about political correction in the bigger sense,
an elected official using their power. >> abuse of power. >> to benefit themselves. if this -- this isn't about proving a narrow bribery statute right now but about the president of the united states co-opting the entire law enfo e enforcement putting bill barr, three times mentioned in the consult, beyond outrageous and something we can't accept in the u.s. >> and you were involved when russia invaded crimea and know how important this aid is for both the ukrainian? >> right. to balance power between ukraine and russia and the united states. it wasn't just a policy of the white house and state treasury. a policy backed by, bipartisanly in congress. it had support writ large. end of the day this money is not donald trump's to give or not give. it's part of the policy part of our strategy. >> and invoking bill barr,
right? this is the lead law enforcement chief doj. he's like, bill barr will call you, or you call bill barr. mentions him like five times kind of in the same breath as his own attorney rudy giuliani. my question based from what we know all things mueller an how president trump felt about jeff sessions recusing himself from all of that, a., is this not a conflict of interest and looking at you, kaitlan, how can bill barr not recuse himself? >> he hasn't and he didn't in this decision. we know that as they were going through this whether or not this criminal referral, going to open this investigation. they interviewed the white house officials who were involved in putting this transcript together. that's it. they didn't interview anyone else and made the decision not to go anywhere with this. the basis of what could be the value of an investigation into joe biden for the president politically is that actually a campaign finance violation and one of the bigger mysteries bill barr wanted the transcript released. people questioning why now, because he is mentioned throughout it even though the doj insisted he didn't know how
much he came up during this call until the whistle-blower filed this complaint. in part based on this conversation. that's a big question coming out of it, because it's not a flattering look for the would us to have the president telling a foreign leader to reach out to the u.s. attorney general, to investigate joe biden and his family. that's kind of something you're hearing not just from critics of the president. hearing it from people who are allies of this white house in most typical forms. their conferring why they would release this when it's got comments like that included throughout. >> okay. all of this, more questions for you also, of course, standing by for this bilateral meeting between the president of ukraine and the president of united states. that's happening in mere minutes. with me now, one of the democratic lawmakers who wrote that opinion piece that really helped turn the tide. starting an impeachment inquiry against the president. congresswoman abigail stanburger of virginia. congresswoman, a pleasure to have you on. welcome. >> thank you so much for having me. >> so you are also a former cia case officer, an ex federal
agent for the postal inspection office and read the transcript. what is the most damning piece to you? >> let's start with the allegations as they exist. the allegations that the president of the united states sought to leverage his power as president over a foreign nation to collect and dig up dirt on a political opponent. that's what we see in these, in this transcript memorandum, what we see. we see a president using his presidential power, using his influence, and i certainly think we need more evidence before we move forward as a congress, but i believe that unfortunately these transcripts do affirm that these allegations may have some truth to them. particularly given the tenor of the conversation, the element of pressure and we need to remember, this is the president of the united states speaking with the leader of a foreign nation that requires and relies
heavily on u.s. security aid and on a positive relationship with the united states. >> do you see a quid pro quo? >> well, i think first it's important to note that you don't need to have a quid pro quo, however, i do think that within the transcripts that we have seen so far that there is an implication of u.s. support, all that the u.s. does for ukraine and i think there is an inherent power imbalance in this. that's an important thing to note. especially from a diplomatic perspective. from a diplomatic perspective many countries rely on positive relationships with the united states of america. this power imbalance is something that everyone needs to understand in looking at whether or not there is an element of quid pro quo, which, again, doesn't necessarily have to be there in the first place, but when we look at the larger scale that the president of the united states may have sought to use and leverage security assistance
dollars, taxpayer dollars, to pressure a foreign government to dig up dirt on an opponent is beyond the pale, one step further than the initial element of using that pressure. >> what about speaker nancy pelosi? so do you agree that her announcement yesterday didn't change anything in terms of process? >> so i think her announcement yesterday focused on these allegations to say, we are now officially in an impeachment investigation. i do think it changes things. it's starts a new place and when we are looking at these specific allegations, these allegations, if proven true, i believe, and this is what my colleagues with a background in national security assessed, these represent a national security threat and these allegations, if true, represent impeachable offenses. so the announcement yesterday that the speaker made is -- is to allow the house of representatives to use all congressional tools and
authorities necessary to determine if these allegations are true or not. >> and then, congresswoman, having a conversation with these ladies here, here in new york, about bill barr. right? the attorney general, when you look at this transcript, the president brings him up five times. let me read one reference. president trump says that "there's a lot of talk about biden's son. that biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the attorney general would be great." you know, you know bill barr, head of doj. doj overseeing this whistle-blower. do you think there's a conflict of interest here and should he recuse himself? >> i think there are so many conflicts here. so many complicating factors. the fact if there is some sort of criminal concern why would doj not be the point person? why would doj not bring any concerns to the fbi, the fact that the president would be bringing up a political foe and asking for help in investigating
him? none of it is appropriate, and certainly not bringing up the attorney general. and part and parcel bringing up the attorney general right there with the president's personal attorney. >> correct. >> there seem to be many conflicts andble confusing factors to this transcript. i think it's important from a national security perspective to also question how confusing is this for the president of a foreign country to get these sort of messages from the president of the united states. >> right. again, we will see these two leaders any moment now. congresswoman abigail st stenburger, thank you very much we wait for the president to meet with the president of ukraine. what they both have to say after release of this phone call from the end of july. also president trump's personal lawyer is mentioned also several times in the transcript. what we know about rudy giuliani's direct involvement in the scandal. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. we will be right back. ides, can be tough. you diet. exercise.
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let me remind you what got us here. back to may of this year when rudy giuliani considered traveling to ukraine to look into the debunk theory about former vice president joe biden's son hunter. he canceled the trip after major criticism and then fast forward two months later in july giuliani instead meets with a ukraine official in madrid and later that month is when this phone call takes place between trump and his ukrainian counterpart. days before calling the ukraine president trump ordered a hold on millions of dollars in military aid. so then that brings us to september where weeks after whistle-blower file as complaint with the intelligence inspector general, congress launches three investigations into the president and giuliani's efforts with ukraine. three days later, the administration lifts the freeze on ukraine funding and then last night on fox news rudy giuliani responded to his role when it comes to ukraine. watch this. >> and you know who i did it, at the request of?
the state department. i never talked to any ukraine official until the state department call immediate and asked me to do it and then i reported every conversation back to them. it's all here. right here. the first call from the state department. the debriefing of the -- >> why are they -- >> ambassador volker called me, asked me to do it, set up the meeting, helped me set it up. i debriefed them three times in great detail about it. >> all right. thank you very much, everybody. i'm with the president of ukraine and he's made me more famous than -- i will say he's got a great reputation. he's very, very strongly looking into all sorts of corruption and some of the problems they've had over the years. i think one of the primary
reasons he got elected, his reputation absolutely sterling and it's an honor to be with you an we spoke a couple of times as you probably remember. they'd like to hear every single word and we give them every single word, and then they'll say, well, what about today? and i think the press would like to say, and the media, lots of witnesses if you'd like to have them, but the country of, our country's doing phenomenally well. we have the best economy we've ever had, the best employment numbers we've ever had and we have now almost 160 million people working more than we've ever had. doing very well in every respect and i have a feeling your country's doing to do fantastically well. >> thank you very much, mr. president. thank you very much. a great pleasure for me to be here, and it's better to be on tv than by phone.
>> yes. >> and mr. president, thank you very much and i'm not the first time to be in new york but i know you've never been in ukraine. >> that's right, and your predecessor how i say in english? live in fine time. so give me award that you will come to our great country? >> well, i'm going to try, and i know a lot of people -- i will say this. i know a lot of people from ukraine. they're great people and i own something called the miss universe pageants years ago, and sold it to img, and when i ran for president i thought maybe it wouldn't be the greatest thing, going to miss universe and miss usa pageants but it's a great thing and we had a winner from ukraine and really got to know the country very well in a lot of different ways, but it's a country i think with tremendous potential. >> yes. i know it, because i am from that country. >> right. >> and i want to thank you for
an invitation to washington. you invited me. but i think i'm sorry -- but i think you forgot to tell me the date. but i think the near future. >> they'll tell awe dayou a dat >> they know before us and i want to thank you especially, mr. president, to usa, to your government. like i said, i know many people, many faces, like the second family, and we know each other. thank you for your support. especially now when, you know, when we have two really two wars in ukraine. the first one is with corruption. you know, but we'll fight -- no. we'll be a winner in this fight, i'm sure, and the priority, my priority, to stop the war and to
get back our territories, crimea and thank you for your support in this case. thank you very much. >> thank you very much, mr. president. if you remember, you lost crimea during a different administration. not during the trump administration. >> yes, so you have chance to help us. >> that's right. but that was during the obama administration that you lost crimea and i didn't think it was something you should have, but that was done a long time ago, and i think it was handled poorly, but it's just one of those things. one of the elements that we discussed is the united states helps ukraine but i think that other country should help ukraine much more than they're doing. germany, france, the european union nations really should help you a lot more and i think maybe together we'll work on that. they have to feel a little bit guilty about it, because they don't do what they should be doing. you're very important to the european union. you're a very, strategically very important and i think they should spend a lot more in
helping ukraine and they know that, also, and they actually tell me that, but they don't seem to produce. so i'm sure you'll talk to them and i'll certainly be talking to them. >> thank you very much, mr. president. and, you know, now we need -- i want to tell you that we now -- a new country and i'm sorry but we don't need help. we need support. real support. and we thank, thank everybody. i thank all of the european countries that help us. we also want to have more, more, but i understand so only together, america and eu, only together we can stop the war, and, you know, we are ready. we just want to tell that we remember that we are the biggest country in europe but we want to be the richest one.
it's in my heart. >> you know, you have great people in ukraine and very talented people. >> very smart. >> manufacturing in terms of some of the things they do. and we'll be doing, we're doing trading already, but we should be doing a lot more trading with ukraine, but you have very talented people that make great things. at the top of the line really. that's important. the other thing i heard you actually have over the last short period of time made progress with russia. i hear a lot of progress has been made and just keep it going. be nice to end that whole disaster. >> of course, i want to tell you before -- before that relations with russia -- you have to know, i want world to know now we have new team. a new power. the new government. >> right. >> so now we have about 74 laws,
new laws, which help for reforms, land reform -- a law about concessions, and we -- general security and we launched the -- secretary. and anti-corruption court. as we came we launched anti-corruption court and it began to work on the 5th of september. it was -- it was after five days we had the new government. so we are ready. we want to show that we -- we just come and if somebody, if you, we, who you want to help us. so just let's do business cases. we have many investment cases.
>> and stop corruption in ukraine, because that will really make you great. that will make you great personally and it will also be so tremendous for your nation in terms of what you want to do and where you want to take it. thank you very much. >> thank you very much, mr. president. >> have you felt any pressure from trt president trump to investigate joe biden? >> i think you ready everything. i think you read text. i'm sorry, but i don't want to be involved to democratic op open -- elections. elections of usa. no. sure, we had -- i think good phone call. it was normal. we spoke about many things, and i -- so i think and you read it
that nobody pushed me. yes. >> in other words, no pressure. >> mr. president, did you -- >> you know what? there was no pressure and you know -- by the way, you know there was no pressure. all you have to do is see it, what went on on the call but you know that but you can ask the question and i appreciate the answer. go ahead. >> mr. president, vice president zelensky -- and biden an investigation. >> no. i want him to do whatever he can. this was not his fault. he wasn't there. he's just been here recently, but whatever he can do in terms of kripgcorruption, because the corruption's massive. when biden's son walks away with millions from ukraine he knows nothing and paying millions of dollars that's corruption. when biden's son walks out of china with $1.5 billion in a fund and the biggest funds in the world can't get money out of china, and he's there for one quick meeting and he flies in on air force two, i think that's a horrible thing. i think it's a horrible thing,
but i'm going far beyond that. i know the president and i've read a lot about ukraine, i've read a lot about a lot of countries. he wants to stop corruption. he was elected, i think, number one, on the basis of stopping corruption. which unfortunately has plagued ukraine. and if you could do that, he's doing really, the whole world a big favor. and i think he's going to be successful if. >> mr. president, on rudy giuliani. wipe was it appropriate for nor personal attorney to get involved in government business? >> ask rudy. i will tell you this. that rudy's looking to also find out where the phony witch-hunt started, how it started. a russian witch hurnt turned ou to be two and a half years of phony nonsense. rudy giuliani is a great lawyer, he was a great mayor, he's highly respected. i've watched the passion he'd had on television over the last few days. incredible what he's done. what he has done, he wants to find out where did this russian
witch-hunt you people helped perpetrate, where did it start? how come it started? all nonsense. it was a hoax. a total hoax. it was a media hoax and a democrat hoax. where did it start? and rudy's got every right to go and find out where that started and other people are looking at that, too. where did it start? the enablers? where did it all come from? can out of thin air and he has every right to do it. he's a good lawyer, knows exactly what he's doing and it's very important. >> do you believe since hillary clinton, do you think this whole -- >> could be. you mean the 30,000 she deleted? >> yes. >> could very well -- boy, a nice question. i liked that question, because frankly i think that one of the great crimes committed is hillary clinton deleting 33,000 emails after congress sent her a subpoena. think of that. you can't even do that in a civil case. you can't get rid of evidence like that. she deleted 33,000 emails
after -- not before -- after receiving the subpoena from the u.s. congress. i mean, i have never heard -- she's done far worse than that, although i don't know how much worse it can be, but there were many other things she did that were wrong, but that's so obvious. she gets a subpoena from the united states congress, and she deletes them and then said i i remember it, oh, well, they had to do with the wedding and yoga. she does a lot of yoga. right? 33,000 emails about the wedding and yoga. i don't think so. how she got away with that one -- but it's one of many and it's corrupt government, because we have corruption also, mr. president. wep have a lot of corruption in our government, and when you see what happened with hillary clinton, when you see what happened with comey and mccabe and all of these people, we have a lot of things going on here, too. hopefully it's going to be found out very soon, but i think that a lot of progress has been made. a lot of progress has been made.
>> mr. president -- >> mr. president -- military aid continue in the future? >> well, we're working with ukraine and want other countries to work with ukraine. i say work i'm referring to money. put up more money. we've put up a lot of money. i gave you anti-tank busters that frankly president obama was sending you pillows and sheets. i gave you anti-tank budgeters a -- budgeters a lot of people didn't want to do it but i did it. i believe president putin would like to do something. i really hope you and president putin get together and can solve your problem. a tremendous achievement and i know you're trying to do that. >> mr. president, did you ask the house speaker desch- desch- -- >> you said looking into joe biden's son, have you had that conversation? >> no, i haven't, but i think -- i think that somebody, if you look what he did it's so bad. what his son -- goes to china. walks away with a billion and a
half dollars. goes to ukraine walks away with $50,000 a month and a lot of money in addition to that. and the whole thing with the prosecutor in ukraine. he's on cake. this isn't like, maybe he did. maybe he didn't. he's on tape doing this. i saw this a while ago looked at it, incredible. never seen anything like that. now, either he's dumb or he thought he was in a room full of really good friends. or maybe it's a combination of both in this case. >> mr. president -- >> mr. president -- >> i heard -- thank you very much. i mean that we have independent country and independent general security. i can't push anyone. you know? that's it. that is a question -- that is the answer. so i didn't call somebody or the new general of security, i didn't ask him. i didn't push him. that's -- >> did you feel obligated to fulfill your propositions to president trump? >> sorry.
[ speaking in foreign language ] >> you want to just -- >> sorry. >> translator: investigating, i want to underscore ukraine is and independent country we have a new prosecutor sglen ukraine, highly professional man with a western education and he's free to investigate any case he considers. well, we have many more issues to carry about and to tackle. we have ill-advised, we have corruption cases as president trump likely mentioned about that. so we know what to do and we know where to go and what to tackle. >> president -- the attorney general in this matter? >> president slzelenskslns zele >> did you ask house speaker pelosi -- >> no way. she's lost her way taken over by
the radical left. she may be radical left herself. i spoke to her about guns didn't know what i was talking about. tell you what. nancy pelosi is not interested in guns and gun protection and gun safety. all she's thinking about is that she's didn't taken over by the radical left, the whole democratic party. look at what's happening in the media today. the whole party's taken over by the left and thank you very much. my poll numbers have gone up but i don't want them to go up for this reason's when they look and when you see what's happening people are really angry at democrats, they're really angry at the democrat party, and things like as an example, drug prices's getting drugs down. things like gun safety. infrastructure. the democrats can't talk about that, because they have been taken over by a radical group of people and nancy pelosi far as i'm concerned unfortunately is no longer speaker of the house. thank you very much, everybody. >> mr. president -- the attorney
general -- >> mr. president -- >> thank you. okay. last i checked nancy pelosi is the speaker of the house. i have no idea what he was referencing there. number two, we just need to know before we analyze all this that everything he said about the bidens is 100% wrong. the aing cuizations against the bidens are baseless, there is no evidence of wrongdoing including by ukrainian prosecutors. joe biden is indeed on tape talking about withholding aid because the u.s. and western nations wanted a corrupt prosecutor out. in fact, the goal of western nations at the time get prosecutors who would investigate corruption. so first and foremost, those are the facts. christiane amanpour is with me
lach listening to this together. the president of ukraine, whether or not he felt pressured. we've remembereded transcript. seen it all, read it, he basically says no one pushed me. trump jumped in and said, there was no pressure. what do you think of that? >> the president of ukraine is under enormous pressure herb rig right now. he is a neophyte not a political leader, he is a television personality. he is a comedian and won in an extraordinary outsider come from behind races in ukraine and he is now landed in one of the most dramatic political crises that his country could imagine but also that the united states right now could imagine. he is desperately punting for every way he possibly can. earlier today he said to ukrainian correspondents following him around that the only person who can pressure me is my 6-year-old son. an independent country and we will not be pressureds into anything. the transcript to an extent
speaks for itself. right? president trump talks about how he's been very helpful with military and how they've bought these javelin defense systems, and then president trump says, fine, but i want you to do me a favor. i mean, this comes right after. to the point in question, that they were talking about. this is the prosecutor in the ukraine. president trump according to this transcript says that he needs him to look into the issue of the prosecutor in ukraine, and zelensky says i want to tell you about the prosecutor. first of all i understand and i'm knowledgeable about the situation since we've won the majority now in this country. the nexts prosecutor will be 100% my person, my candidate approved by the parliament and start as a new prosecutor in september. he or she will look into the situation specifically to the company that you mentioned on this issue. so they are definitely talking about the same thing and president zelensky is talking about the request for a favor
that president trump made. it and i think that, you know, the other thing that's really very interesting in this is that president trump four times in this phone call mentions not just rudy giuliani but the attorney general of the united states. and says he wants zelensky to work with the attorney general on this issue of the prosecutor and you know and i know from my previous reporting my previous interviews with the previous president of ukraine that corruption was a main focus of the united states. u.s. ambassadors were desperately trying to eradicate and reform the corrupt business practicing and judicial practices and legal practices that are rife in the ukraine. that was certainly something the trump add min -- the obama administration was trying to fulfill. and one other thing that's really important. this idea that the europeans haven't been helping. the europeans have given in the region of $16 billion to ukraine to help.
and in all sorts of ways. democracy building, in terms of all issues it needs because ukraine wanted to be part of the eu. that's what started this entire issue and made russia invade ukraine partly, and, of course, you know, ukraine needs a weapons systems and all the rest because it's at war with russia right now. >> which the question where trump kept bringing up putin. you should get along with putin, and you know, we -- peace with russia, and we were just -- looking at zelensky face he was like -- >> i mean, look, a lot of tap dancing and punting going on here. zelens zelensky, look at the begins, the original transcript. trump calling to congratulate. this is a one issue conversation and about a domestic problem president trump raised that is to look into his main challenger for the 2020 race and that's joe biden and his son. >> yes. >> zelensky, though, starts the conversation on this july 24th
call by essentially mimicking president trump. flattering president trump. saying we used your tactics, drain the swamp, stayed in your hotels. you're a great educator. >> and even then trying to make trump feel comfortable deflecting the limelight and he's a pro in the spotlight. what he had done. he's a television personality. >> zelensky? >> yes. >> and president trump. you've got a lot of currents conflicting here. >> okay. i'd like to, shall we -- shall i bring in -- hang on. come to you in a second, and rudy giuliani. dana bash joining us here also and dana, one thing that struck me listening to the dialogue he said he would ask rudy giuliani why he's involved, but trump himself on the call told ukraine to get in touchry rudy giuliani his personal lawyer several times over. >> he knows why he's involved.
he's involved because rudy giuliani has been aggressively telling the president, telling the press, telling the ukrainians, telling everybody since last summer that he wants to and is actively working to, from his perspective, get to the bottom of corruption that he thinks that joe biden was involved in and not just that. allegations that the democrats were working with the ukrainians to influence the 2016 election, allegations which is we should underscore highlight and emboldble saying there are no basis for that. they are just allegations. so the president knows exactly what's going on. and you have to also remember the timing. that giuliani back in the summer was not just telling the press but trying to go to ukraine and it was the day after the mueller hearing, which at the time was seen as, you know, a noog burth
burger for the president. felt he was in the clear and the day after he made that phone call to the man he was sitting next to today. as christiane said, that was remarkable to watch. couldn't have been a bigger elephant in the room with that transcript, and good for that reporter trying to get an answer from, from the ukrainian leader and he smartly tried to deflect as much as he could. what choice did he have? >> stay on -- thank you, dana. hang with me. kylie atwood. you cover state before we just listened to zelensky and trump we played the clip from fox last night. rudy giuliani, you know, saying, well, state department asked me to reach out. right? so can you -- did the state department do that? what do you know from state? >> what we do know is that the state department did connect giuliani with an aide of zelensky. right? they admitted that, said that on the record to us. what we don't know is the extent to which the state department
was really involved here. right? did they set up a number of meetings or did they just make the connection? what giuliani is saying, he was asked by the state department to have these meetings. state department doesn't go that far. they say they made the connection anltz are trying to essentially according to sources, i know that are familiar with ambassador volker, who is the top state department official who handles ukraine, he was trying to sort of clear his hands of this. push it off the table. push all the political stuff over to giuliani so he could deal with the policy. but we saw that now the two are directly entangled in one another. we have president trump on an official phone call with zelensky talking about giuliani repeatedly, who is his personal lawyer, not working for the white house. so that's where it gets complicated and still where there are a lot of answers that we still need from the state department, but just there, the president also said that rudy
has every right to be looking at this. he still is standing by the fact that he wants rudy giuliani out on this mission for him. the question, has he implicated his own state department in doing so. >> what do you think, christiane? >> look, the minute you start mixing personal with professional, state department, policy with politics, you know, this is going to be a question and a matter of investigation for a long time to come. i mean, it is actually kind of incredible to think that after this entire couple of years of the russia investigation, which was them interfering here, there's now a, apparent appearance of here interfering there for politics here. and it's going to be a really, really -- it's going to be very divisive and very difficult to get to the bottom of, and also in terms about the state department. you know, this transcript shows that the president of the united states is trashing the former
u.s. ambassador to ukraine, and the president of ukraine is also trashing the former u.s. ambassador, who was an obama appointee but a career foreign servant. >> doesn't she work for the state? >> yes, career, and president trump at one point says, well, you know, things are going to happen with her. i'm not sure. well, she's going to go through some things. again, i will have giuliani and the attorney general -- i mean, four times he brings up the attorney general of the united states. the attorney general of the united states. >> who, by the way, yobsly head of doj overseeing this whistle-blower complaint and i was talking to a member of congress a minute ago saying there's a lot of issues, conflict of interest. thank you for that. kaitlan collins, do you have a second? you're on your phone. jump in as we're getting this information, i understand team biden responded. >> he's got a lengthy statement.
read parts of it. he's talking about this transcript really. gotten from the white house, the white house version of this call. he is saying it makes clear and joe biden's word "the president ordered delay of congressional appropriated military assistance to ukraine implored the president to work with his personal attorney to manufacture a smear jens a political opponent and using a malicious conspiracy theory joe biden said is debunk universitily. interesting because of the focus on barr in this transcript. we also learned he planned to involve the united states department of justice in his scheme a direct attack on the core independence of that department and independence is essential to the rule of law. joe biden goes on to say he's not going to just focus on what donald trump is saying about him in these accusations but focus on his campaign, health care, those issues but he says, "congress must pursue the facts and quickly take prompt action to hold donald trump
accountable" essentially saying "meantime house should do its job and he's going to focus on his campaign." >> kate larn and brooke, interesting what biden said. skirted over it, business about a conspiracy theory. in addition to the crowdstrike comment made. does zelensky know what that is? a discredited theory that ukraine is in possession of the secret -- >> why would the president of the united states think they would be in possession? >> because that's the -- the, that right winger. you know? the conspiracy theorist who says ukraine has a secret server of hillary clinton. that was that he even brought up. >> the first thing the president brought up after talking about the military aid. the president brought it up and said i need you to do me a favor. brought ut the cyber security former hired after the hacker of the emails when the reporter said do you think that hillary clinton's emails are on a server in ukraine? the president essentially said,
yes. something he's argued before. you could see how clearly uncomfortable the ukraine president was whk asking did you feel pressure by president trump. he said noble pushed me but essentially you've read how this call went downed and can see what was said there and he wants to stay out of american politics. >> add gloria borger in washington. you've listened, heard the biden reaction, saw trump and zelensky. what say you? >> well, that was kind of an extraordinary moment. wasn't it? >> kind of, yeah. >> the thing that struck me about the whole press availability was the passion with which donald trump defended rudy giuliani. and he has done that all along. he did it during the russia investigation when the other attorneys were rolling their eyes about rudy giuliani's tv appearances. and it seems to me, and, you know, kylie would know more about this from the state
department, but this is something cooked up by these guys, by rudy giuliani and his old buddy donald trump, and okay, you're going to face joe biden in 2020. let's get to the bottom of the hunter biden story and let's figure out about the hillary clinton story and those serverses and ukraine, of course, is involved and let rudy, send you over there, because you're my guy. and can you imagine being the american ambassador at that time, which the president totally dissed in this phone conversation, or being a member of the national security team trying to figure out why funding had been held up for ukraine? can you imagine not knowing exactly why you were told, well, i'm not sure, and, you know, you were given a song and dance about it? to me, looking at this, the president was so vociferous in
his defense of rudy giuliani, and, by the way, rudy giuliani doesn't work for the united states government. rudy giuliani -- >> yes. >> -- is not paid by taxpayers to be an envoy to ukraine. he is the president's lawyer. and i just -- you know, and the president was completely saying, that's fine. he works -- he works for me and i admire his passion. the president said. the reason the president admires it is because he shares it, and they feed off of each other. and i think that's -- you know, that's what's going on here. it's kind of, they feed off of each other and then rudy goes off and does what he has to do and reports back to the president and then the president gets on this phone call and does what he does. >> there was an incredible piece from the "washington post" all about rudy giuliani's role and national security folks getting sidestepped for rudy giuliani. quote from one u.s. official not named told the "washington post" "rudy he did all of this.
this -- show that we're in, it's him injecting himself into the process." >> right. always been the -- that's always been the case although the russia team lawyers kind of like to use rudy giuliani because he became the trump whisperer during the mueller investigation. they would want to do something. tell giuliani and he would convince the president that maybe he ought to do it. then go out on tsh and they'd have a week of d.j. control on something else. >> yes. christiane, just -- >> just on the weapon, suspension of the weapons, you hear from the former prime minister, foreign minister, in fact, of ukraine has been saying, it's reported, it's out there in various newspaper accounts. when it was suspended, it was done without warning, without coming through any channels that they normally would have. they have had very, very connections with the pentagon for years since ukraine became independent and then they just had no idea why it was happening. completely usual, because they always had this pipeline going. there was never any, if you do
this or don't do that we're going to suspend this for that period of time. it was a complete surprise to them. >> how about the fact that we were all noticing when trump brought up obama again, and in talking about crimea and russia? basically blaming the obama administration and not vladimir putin. >> well, look, you know, president trump does do a lot of that. i mean, many of his foreign policy, whether it's the iran nuclear deal or paris climate accord, whatever it is, it's in opposition to president obama. the truth is the united states has some of the strongest sanctions on russia despite what president trump might say warmly about vladimir putin or not. congress has ensured that very strong u.s. sanctions are still on russia because of the crimea and because of all the other allegations of interference into the election et cetera. yeah. >> all right. christiane, thank you. getting more breaking news just in to the "washington post."
the acting director of national intelligence threatened to resign over concerns that the white house might attempt to force him to stonewall congress when he testifies thursday about an explosive whistle-blower complaint about the president. according to current and former u.s. officials familiar with this matter. go straight to the author of the piece in "the post." tell us more. >> reporter: we know maguire is coming to capitol hill thursday and threatened he wasn't able to speak openly and if the white house tied his hand and made it so he couldn't say anything in this public hearing tomorrow morning he threatened to resign over that shows that there is trouble in paradise in terms of what is going on between the white house and the director of national intelligence and doj. all of these conversations happening whether or not to release the whistle-blower's complaint to capitol hill.
seems there is, tension there internally about what they should be doing. >> let me just stay with you. i've been handed this and haven't had a chance to read it. tell me honestly, what else is in here that you wrote about? >> reporter: well, the basic, the fact that maguire basically served notice he was, if he was not able to talk to lawmakers, if he just had to sit there and refuse to say anything he was going to resign. basically saying that he wants to cooperate to some extent. with lawmakers on capitol hill. that's significant because he's seen resistance from the administration to turning over the whistle-blower complaint or letting anybody talk about it. remember, the i.g. for the intelligence community who first flagged this to capitol hill couldn't give lawmakers details because he wasn't allowed to. just talk how he thought it was urgent, credible and lawmakers should know but wasn't able to actually discuss details with
them directly. the fact you're seeing now resistance from maguire when it seems initially resistance was between the i.g. and maguire, he doesn't like the idea being told he can't talk either indicates there is a difference of opinion to put it lightly between the various agencies we're talking about, which we know include the intelligence community add the dni and also the justice department, and so what will the end result be now? it doesn't seem the administration is doing this with a unified heart even if thus far doing it with a unified voice in terms of resisting and turning it over. >> i got it. thank you so much with the scoop with the "post." we've talked about all the stonewalling, no the wanting to release information up on the hill. corey lewandowski. saying i want to speak freely to
congress. if you won't let me i'm out is significant. >> xroextraordinary. >> we predicted he would be muzzled by the white house and department of justice. >> yes. >> this is an extraordinary circumstance with the whistle-blower. it's never happened before, even when the director of national intelligence found something to not be an urgent concern it's always gone to congress. the fact the dni has not given a path for the whistle-blower to go to wrong hasn't happened is extraordinary. i was assuming maguire bought into this conversation and was a part of it. >> now we're seeing he has not and in fact pushing back on it. this makes his testimony tomorrow so much more important. >> this guy has only been on the job about a month. remember, dan coats stepped down. essentially pushed out because he and the president clashed repeatedly. the president picked a new dni in john ratcliffe and he withdrew his name from the nomination essentially people said this guy might not if get kwer confirmed, senators were pushing
back. the president hasn't nameds next dni. this gip guy is in an acting capacity are and telling the white house unless you make a specific legal argument why i can't say anything i'm going to be candid if i'm there. up see the white house people go there before answer some questions not others on the basis of privilege and clearly he didn't feel comfortable doing that without an explicit legal argument, and we saw evidence that this may be coming yesterday when the acting director put out a statement in which he acknowledged how long he has worked for the u.s. government saying he had sworn an oath to the constitution 11 times in his 36 years of public service. saying that he wasn't willing to swear that oath and not actually follow through on that oath when he goes up and testifies tomorrow and he went on to say i am committing to protecting whistle-blowers and ensuring every complaint is handled
appropriately. so he there, just yesterday, was giving us a signal he was fighting back against this pressure coming from the white house. >> and now we know thanks to the team at "the post." exactly what's happening. dana bash, to you. extraordinary. yes? >> it is. i was going to say exactly what kylie said. the acting director of national intelligence gave a big preview of his feelings and tried to put white smoke out there for people to see what his feelings are with that statement that she just reminded us of from last night. saying he wants to do this. he wants to comply with the whistle-blower laws. it's all he's done his whole career is serve america and the military and elsewhere and this is -- he was, like a mayday call. from inside as much as he could, and thanks to our friends at the "washito