tv At This Hour With Kate Bolduan CNN September 27, 2019 8:00am-9:00am PDT
hello, everyone. i'm kate bolduan. thank you for joining me. this morning one of the morse explosive claims in the whistle-blower complaint was confirmed, at least in part, by the white house. a senior white house officials said, quote, national security council lawyers directed that the classified document be handled appropriately. this just a day after the whistle-blower complaint alleges that the details of the call with ukraine's president was moved to a system normally used for classified information, but what this alleges in the complaint is that it was moved not for national security purposes, but because it was deemed political sensitive. we're going to have much more on that in just a moment. even before this news, house
speaker nancy pelosi is speaking out, saying it all looks like a cover-up of a cover-up, and she's going after the attorney general bill barr for what she sees as his role in it. listen. >> i think we're getting involved in the cover-up of the cover-up. that may be something that will take time to investigate. i do think the attorney general has gone rogue. he has for a long time now, since he was mentioned in all of this, it's curious that he would be making discussions about how the complaint would be handled. >> president trump is lashing out at the chairman of the committee leading the investigation at the whistle-blower, and at the white house officials who allegedly talked to the whistle blowers. watch. >> i want to know who is the person who gave the whistle-blower -- who's the person who gave the whistle-blowers the information. that's close to a spy. you know what we used to do in the oldr old days when they were
smart, right? we used to handle it differently than we do now. kaitlan, first to you, what are you learn from the white house after the statement they just put out? >> kate, this is significant. this is the finn time that the white house is acknowledges that yes, lawyers did direct that the transcript to be moved to a more highly secure system. this comes as the president just this morning was doubting this whistle-blower, questioning this person's credibility in saying that their complaint that they filed was full of inaccurate information. now we have the white house acknowledges that is just not the case. you'll remember, back in that complaint, this whistle-blower said, quote, white house officials told me they were directed by white house lawyers to remove the electronic transcript from the computer system in which such transcripts are tip dale stored for
distribution to cabinet-level officials. the president is say it's full of inaccurate information, a senior white house official just confirmed to my colleague pam brown, that without lawyers did direct that to be moved, but they're saying a national security council lawyer, they're pinning the blame specifically on a national security council lawyer. in this complaint, you'll remember this whistle-blower said according to white house officials this person spoke with, this was, quote, not the first time under this administration that it was -- solely for the purpose of protecting politically sensitive information rather than national security sensitive information. what we're still trying to figure out is -- to where this highly secure area where these would go, as the -- typically for more nationally security sensitive materials, but of
course this all came as white house officials knew that the president wanted these transcripts kept pretty close, because after some leaked right after he got into the office, the president was furious about that. >> all right. this is significant. sunlen, what is the latest today? >> reporter: members are about to leave for a two-week recess, they're not expected to be back on capitol hill until october 14th. so as to not lose momentum, the how intelligence committee, according to the chairman, will continue working over the break, of course, with the number one goal of potentially trying to get that whistle-blower in front of their committee. sources tell cnn this morning that members of that committee have been told they would potentially have to return to washington to attend that hearing, in addition for all the other work, making document requests, potential subpoenas, trying to get other witnesses before the committee. certainly the timeline is what a lot of democrats are talking
about, how quickly they want to move through this. many democrats say they're trying to have articles of impeachment voled on, the committee that would move articles of impeachment, potentially by the end of october, setting up potentially a full vote on the house potentially by thanksgiving. speaker of the house nancy pelosi has been very noncommittal in terms of that timeline, but this morning she said they should move with purpose but not haitily, clearly not trying to send the impression they're getting ahead of their skiing, while keeping the momentum focused squarely on ukraine. when it comes to the how intel committee could be called back, is it clear that's definitely going to happen? is it just you need to stand by to stand by, because things are moving quickly? >> i think definitely stand by,
because things are moving quickly. they have been in discussion with the whistle-blower's attorney about potential getting he or she in front of that committee. of course, to hear that testimony likely behind closed doors. >> kaitlan, to you. we're hearing a list of -- the list is starting to grow and it's just beginning of white house administration officials that could be called up to capitol hill for testimony on -- as part of this investigation. what are you hearing from there in terms of -- we've seen how easily that has gone over with past investigations. what are you hearing there in terms of the openness, the willingness for folks to be called up there now? >> i think a few days ago white house officials probably would have dismissed that, pointing to what has happened to their colleagues in the past where they have been protected essential from having to go up in there, but there's a sense
that things have changed now. they realized what democrats have undergone, how fast-moving this is. that's left a lot of people on unsure footing here. they're not confident that that strategy of blocking officials from going up there would technically work anymore. that's really something we have noticed here in the white house. they essential feel like they're starting over. they're trying to figure out what the strategy is. they didn't expect this. the ground shifted underneath them pretty quickly. there isn't total confidence in the white house that the strategies that have worked are going to work when it comes down to this narrow focus you are seeing democrats pursue here. >> thanks, guys. i really appreciate it. joining mess is shawn patrick moynihan. he sits on the intelligence commit committee congressman, thank you for being here. first i want your reaction,
there's new reporting, in case you've not heard it from cnn's pamela brown received information from the white house, a statement from the white house. the white house is acknowledging for the first time that official did direct that key documents related to the ukraine call, that they be filed in a separate classified system. the statement from the senior white house officials on this is national security council lawyers directed that the classified document be handled appropriately. just your reaction to that? >> right. well, you know, it's nice of them to admit what we all found out by dragging the information out through what we've had to go through the last few days. the it's a highly unusual way to handle a pretty routine call with a foreign head of state. i was the white house staff secretary. i handled all nsa information, except for the brief.
i've seen memos like this. you don't codeword classify something like that. codeword documents are among the most sensitive information you can imagine. the raid against bin laden, things that will cost somebody their life if it gets out. so that fact that they were classified in that manner may have been inappropriate, but it sure speaks volumes how they were trying to keep this quiet. >> "the washington post" is reporting that to move a call like this to this code-level protected system, a official an high ranks as the chief of staff or national security adviser had to make a formal request. the white house is saying it came from national security council attorneys, but with that "the washington post" reporting in mind, that it had to come from someone as high as chief of staff or the national security council adviser, does that mean you all are planning to call mick mulvaney on the former
national security council adviser john bolton before the commit year? >> i would caution not to go ahead ahead of it. i can tell you as someone who would have worked there, i never would have presumed to tell the professionals, particularly in the national security area how to handle something, where to put it, how to classify it. anybody where any common sense knows you're in dangerous ground, particularly when your motives are to try to conceal embarrassment or keep distribution from people who legitimately have a reason to have it. you know you're doing something wrong. you're right to focus on it as suspicious, but who did what, what it means, what witnesses we'll call, way too soon to tell. >> if this was done without the president's knowledge -- again, this all came out yesterday. there's many avenues you will need to explore with regard to the whistle-blower complaint. but if this -- when we're
talking about this allegation, moving this call to the server, the whistle-blower says for political reasons, not national security reasons, if it was done without the knowledge of the president, does that change things for you? >> no, the president's conduct is what we should be first and foremost focused on. everybody else is maybe trying to cover it up or clean it up. the president is the one who is, by his actions, doing things that are an abuse of hi office, potentially illegal, threatening our national security, and the security of our european partners. that's where the focus should be. after yesterday's hearing, i want to know where you want to focus this investigation now. after what you heard from the dni, after reading the complaint, where you do you want the committee to focus next? >> i think there's a couple big things. first, let's not lose sight of
the substantive issues we have learned from is the memorandum, which is that the president abused his office, held over the head of a foreign -- to get political advantage, things goes to that, first and foremost, but we do want to understand the effort to cover it up. i think the role of attorney general is something that alarms me greatly, he's identified in the second paragraph of the whistle-blower complaint, yet he's overseeing the agency making the decision to kill this ig report to congress. i want to understand that. mr. giuliani's role deserves attention. he is crashing around the world as a private citizen, and we need to understand what he's been doing, and he needs to explain that, it seems to me. then i think the other issues, and things raised in the complaint deserve attention. there are some thing in here in
any normal context themselves would be concerning. why is the president talking about the ukrainians striking a peace deal with the russians? what does he mean when something is going to happen to the woman who used to be the u.s. ambassador as he's criticizing. some things are going to happen to her, he's alleged to have said. there's alarming kernels of attention in there. but the big thing is, what did the president do? who saw those actions? what really happened? that's what we've got to focus on. the fact that the whistle-blower acknowledges in the complaint that the information they are reporting is secondhand, that this is nondirect firsthand accounts of the allegations, is that a problem for you? that is something i have heard from republicans on your committee and elsewhere. >> yes, i've heard them say that. we know these are white house talking points, because the white house mailed the talking points to the democrats.
so they may be shady, but at least they're incompetent. sure, look, of course it's a -- >> everybody gets talking points, democratic white house sends out talking points as well. but beyond that point, please continue. >> sorry to get sdrablgted. your point is a fair one. it's a reason to be cautious, but look how well the whistle-blower complaint matched up against the memorandum that was prepared by white house officials in the situation room. this is clearly a well-informed person with a lot of training who did a very thorough job, but you bet, we shouldn't take anything at face value. we shouldn't take the whistle-blower's word for it. that's why we need to do an inquiry, why we need to be rightly skeptical and corroborate things. that's what we're attempting to do. >> on its face, the whistle-blower is at least in part 2 for 2 on the transcript of the call and the fact that
the transcript of the call was moved to a separate server, we are now learning this morning. congressman, thanks for coming on. >> my pleasure. coming up, new details on when the justice department first learned about the whistle-blow whistle-blower's complaint and what new questions it raises for attorney general bill barr. plus the rudy giuliani chronicles, we can call it. his new claim he will be the hero when the dust settles. stay with us. orlando isn't just the theme park capital of the world, it also has the highest growth in manufacturing jobs in the us. it's a competition for the talent. employees need more than just a paycheck. you definitely want to take advantage of all the benefits you can get. 2/3 of employees said that the workplace is an important source for personal savings and protection solutions. the workplace should be a source of financial security. keeping your people happy is what keeps your people. that's financial wellness. put your employees on a path to financial wellness with prudential. (kickstart my heart by motley crue))
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who in the trump administration knew about the whistle-blower complaint and when did they know it? these are new questions as officials are telling cnn that national security lawyers at the justice department were first alerted to the complaint more than a week before the formal referral from the intelligence community's inspect oor general. cnn justice correspond jessica schneider has much more. it seems a new picture is emerging of the timeline. >> it all adds to the questions, kate, in particular what the
justice department and attorney general knew and when. we learned that the national security lawyers were first alerted to the whistle-blowers allegations about one week before there was an actual formal referral. so the doj officials were total they related to the july 25thth phone call with the ukrainian president. we know the doj lawyers went to the white house to review the transcript of this call since the white house, as you mentioned, was also aware of the allegations. those lawyers then alerted officials at doj's criminal division and deputy attorney general's office, that attorney general bill barr was mentioned on this phone call. we know it wasn't until more than a week later that the inspector general officially referred the matter to the doj. the justice department has previously said that the attorney general was informed when the criminal referred was deliver to doj in late august,
and that, in their words, barr was minute male involved in the issue. so we know the doj also ultimately decided not to open a full-blown criminal investigation into the potential campaign finance violations stemming from the july 25thth phone call, but really all these new details about and did the doj's early awareness in early to mid august before that formal referral to the doj the last week of august, does raise these questions about the extent of the attorney general as involvement, what we knew and when. more questions swirling today in the way of the hearing yesterday and the reveal of the whistle-blow whistle-blower's complaint. >> jessica, thank you for laying it all out. there seems to be much more to learn, because the attorney general's involvement in all of this is definitely now under scrutiny as gentlemen could points out.
the president has said he would have bill barr contact the ukraine, along with rudy giuliani, and after all of this house speaker pelosi is -- in her words, going rogue. ellie hoenig, you think barr should recuse himself from this matter. what is this about for you. it's a no-brainer. at an absolute minimum, he's a witness. donald trump alludes to him a few times. we don't know for sure whether bill barr did the things he said he would do. i'll have the attorney general get together with my personal attorney rudy giuliani, paraphrasing, but if he did not,
he needs to be questioned. >> that's a question i have. does it matter whether or not barr ever, a, did follow up as the president said he would, or b, was even informed that he was mentioned on this call? these are all, of course, hypotheticals, more information needed. do those two factors matter? >> it does not matter in terms of recusal. either way he has a whole bunch of questions to -- you cannot be the prosecutor and a witness in the same case. if he did do some of those actions, if he did participate, then he's a witness at a whole new level. >> so the new reporting is that the justice department attorneys knew a week before the actual formal referral about the complaint. >> does that mean necessarily that the attorney general was
made aware? >> no, but i think in all likelihood, a complaint of this level would make it up. >> or do they block him off? >> it could be, how would this deciding even made does it matter what happened before, if the information that was potentially held up is out? >> it matters in determining whether our justice department is in the bag or not. if they got this complaint and said we're not even starting an investigation, that raises all kinds of questions for me. i look at that call, and it's pretty darn klee to a crime in and of itself.
coming up for us, he is singled out in the whistle-blower complaint. now rudy giuliani is claiming he will be the hero in all of this. why is he claiming that? oh, just wait. that's next. i had always heard stories about my great grandfather, but family can only tell you so much... about your history. i found some incredible records about samuel silberman... passenger manifests, census information, even wwi draft registration cards.
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president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani has become a key figure. to the point, the complaint calls rudy giuliani a central figure in this effort. giuliani insists his he actions are on the up and up, and calling. >> he should step forward and explain what he did. the whistle-blower falsely accuses that is operating on my own. i went to meet sell lezelensky'
at the request of the state department. >> with rudy giuliani, you can expect a interview of the day. >> now he's providing proof. he said he was directed by the state department to engage with ukrainian officials. if the state department said all they did was allow the ambassador to connect ukrainian aid with giuliani. that's a lot less than what giuliani is alleging. let's look at a tweet he just sent out -- it's a text he received from kurt volcker, a special representative to ukraine from the state department. he said, mr. mayor, really enjoyed breakfast, as cut.
i suggest we schedule a time on monday, maybe 10:00 a.m. or 11:00 a.m. washington time. in this complaint there were concerns by u.s. officials that giuliani was circumventing the process, and i've heard that from state department officials. but pompeo yesterday said everything that the state department officials were doing was entirely appropriate. we're waiting for an update. >> giuliani also did an interview, spoke with the atlantic after the complaint came out, saying he does not deserve scrutiny. what does he mean. >> he said he is the one who
should be the hero. he said he's looking forward to watching the state department sync themselves as they try to create distance. he's proving he's willing to come out with something to show though. >> thank so much. coming up, joe biden has found himself at the center of all of this, and he's fighting back, accusing the president of trying to hijack the election. that's next. ♪ the amount of student loan debt i have i'm embarrassed to even say i felt like i was going to spend my whole adult life paying this off thanks to sofi, i can see the light at the end of the tunnel as of 12pm today, i am debt free ♪ not owing anyone anything is the best feeling in the world, i cannot stop smiling about it ♪
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remember how this whistle-blower complaint all came about in the first place? it was the president's call with ukraine and pushing ukraine to push -- joe biden is now responding, saying what the president is trying to do is, quote, a tactic used by the president to try to hijack an election. how will this all impact the 2020 election? the 2020 race right now, joining me is the governor of montana. >> now that the whistle-blower complaint has been out and what it alleges about president
trump? >> yeah, i think the withholding of money, the asking the president of ukraine to do us a favor, the directing ukraine to work with his personal lawyer, and the attorney general, and the cover-up. puts this on a different classified server makes an e-mail server seem small ball. i think the impeachment inquiry has to go forward. often what is best for our country might not be the best politically. >> so you think this should go forward. are you in a place now -- i have heard from other democratic candidates of impeachment now? >> well, i think the inquiry certainly has to get forward. get all the information, let it run its course, but we also have to recognize there's a lot of people who will think this is a cover-up, basically trying to beat up on president trump. i think the greatest threat to our country in many respects is
how divided we are politically. so we need to take this action, but we have to be judicious in doing so. in montana, even folks that i may disagree with, i try to respect them, i try to listen to them, so we need to take he access, see where it guy. >> this is important. i'm heard you day that that is not what people are asking you about on the campaign trail. has that changed this weeks? >> no, it hasn't been what peep are talking about. i don't have the to make the next year plus all about donald trump. i want to make it sure we're taking care of people's health care, their education, economic needs, but really at the end of the day, this becomes bigger than this national election. this becomes about the accountability of a president and the abuse of power along the
way, so election be darned, if you will, that we have to make sure to take these actions just because the potential in his conduct of the norms of this representative democrat sick are severely under siege right now. this puts joe biden at the center of this because of the what the president asked the ukrainian president to do. there's no evidence of wrongdoing by joe biden or his son, but even with that, do you think this is a political problem for joe biden? >> i think it's another example where the president, when he's backed into a corner, he trying to deflect and make it about everybody else. i don't think his references to vice president biden will impact the overall election, but his references in asking a foreign leader to take action against a presidential candidate, that's not just an attack on joe biden, but every one of us presidential
candidates. >> that's interesting. the deadline to qualify for the cnn debate in ohio is next week. ohio voters are the exact voters that you are appealing to. are you going to make the cut, governor? >> i don't think i'll make certainly this next cut. it's the only one in this field that won as a trump state. we have to win places back like ohio, wisconsin, so we're also four months away from any voter actually -- and you are the only governor left and you are the only candidate who has won in a tao state, if you're not up on the stage, though, how do you effectively draw that contrast? and i've spent a lot of times in iowa. iowa is a stye where a third of that you are counties went obama, obama, trump.
even polling last week showed less than a third of people in iowa even watched those debates. i don't think what will define our nominee, it's all about national debates, but about trying to get your moment to get additional $1 donors. >> a good point is no matter what happens in the debate, the polls have not changed much post. kamala harris's campaign says they need to finish in the tom three, do you -- >> i think every one of the candidates running has to be in the top three or four. that's always been my plan, recognize even about 40 days out from 2004 election, john kerry was at four points. al sharpton was beating him in -- once he won iowa, that propelled him along.
on. steve bullock, governor, thanks for being here. i really appreciate it. >> thank you, kate. we'll be right back. panera's new warm grain bowls are full of good. full of flavor, color, full of- woo! full of good. so you can be too. try our new warm grain bowls today. panera. food as it should be. wwithout it, i cannot write myl tremors wouldname.xtreme. i was diagnosed with parkinson's. i had to retire from law enforcement.
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that not a lot of people want to talk about. >> lisa ling is here with me now. lisa, this is fascinating and troubling, what you're focusing on in this first episode. what was it that drew you to this for the series? >> well, people are talking about it. parents are talking about what to do because their children have accessed pornography. and even if you have the most stringent filters on your phones, it's so easily accessible. kids are pretty adept at bypassing things, but also if you put simple words, words that aren't even listed into google, it's astounding what comes up. when you think about knees young brai -- these young brains in this prime stage of development, if they're exposed to an abundance of pornography and they've never
been talked to about what sex can be, it can affect them for the rest of their looifives. some of the stuff out there is disturbing. >> this should not be how they l learn. >> it's true. first of all, we need to wake up, and we need to start having conversations with our kids probably a lot earlier than we ever thought we would. but having conversations about simple anatomy and when they're on devices, if they come across something that is confusing to them or may be disturbing to them, they should be able to talk about it freely. they shouldn't be punished, they shouldn't be condemned, but allow them to know that this is a safe place to have conversations. i really hope that this is a wake-up call for parents. >> this is just the first episode -- as i said, it was really eye opening for me. what else is on tap for the season? >> our second episode is also a really important episode about
been z benzodia benzodiazipines. it's about how potentially dangerous they are when people use them long term. >> another eye opener. i can't wait to see all the episodes. the all new season of "this is life with lisa ling" premiers this sunday at 10:00 p.m. we'll be right back. the gillette skinguard. designed with a guard between the blades that helps protect skin. it guards against razor burn on the neck and irritation on the face. get the shave you've been waiting for. gillette skinguard.
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. as washington is consumed by the whistleblower complaint and the impeachment inquiry into president trump now, how is wall street reacting? cnn's alison kosick is there for us now. how is it going? >> the market doesn't seem to be caring about it right now. he with see the d we see the dow in the green. they're mostly concerned with the trade deals, because it's the trade deals that are fundamental to stop prices, and the way the market sees it, it's those deals that give real value to stock prices. as far as impeachment goes, it has added a level of volatility to the market. i think it will buzz in the background, but it's really had little effect on the market. during the nixon era, the economy wasn't strong and stocks fell 33%. but during the clinton
geechmengeechmen impeachment, s&p rose to 27%. it all depends on the strength of the economy. >> alison, thanks so much. and thanks so much for joining me, everybody. "inside politics" with john king starts right now. thank you, kate, and welcome to "inside politics." i'm john king. thank you for sharing your day with us. we begin the hour with new developments all connected with the whistleblower complaint, now the lynch pin to the democratic impeachment push. nancy pelosi refused today to put a specific timeline on the investigation, but the committee taking the lead, telling reporters, expect subpoenas for key witnesses and telling its members to be ready to work during a planned two-week congressional recess. speaker pelosi says the president's request will be an overwhelming focus,