tv CNN Newsroom With Ana Cabrera CNN September 29, 2019 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT
it's 6:00 eastern, 3:00 in the afternoon out west. i'm anna cabrera and you are live in the cnn newsroom. the anonymous man or woman is a big step closer to testifying on capitol hill according to the man in charge of the powerful house intelligence committee, democratic congressman adam schiff. he said today that a tentative agreement has been reached with some details to be worked out. schiff says he wants to make sure the whistleblower's identity is protected. >> all that needs to be done at this point is to make sure that the attorneys that represent the whistleblower get the clearances that they need to be able to accompany the whistleblower to testimony and that we figure out the logistics to make sure that
we protect the identity of the whistleblower. that's our paramount concern here. this whistleblower has done a cardinal service to the country by exposing wrongdoing of the most serious kind, a breach of the president's duty to the country that endangers our security. he's got to be worried about his own security after the president's tweet the other day. >> no date or time has been determi determined. what other questions besides when have to be ironed out before this person will be cleared to testify before the house intel committee. >> reporter: no firm date for that testimony yet but a major point of discussion is whether the whistleblower's attorneys will be able to accompany them to that hearing or meeting or whatever form that takes. that would require those lawyers
to get the appropriate security clearances. that's something acting intel chief joseph maguire is going to have to grant them. that is being worked out. house intel chairman adam schiff says it's important that the whistleblower's identity also be protected in the course of acquiring this testimony. this as allies of president trump were out in full force today defending the president, attacking the whistleblower and questioning their motives. but the whistleblower's testimony is just one small part of a broad range of things related to the ukrainian controversy that house democrats are looking for. they want to see all kinds of documents related to president trump's now infamous call with ukrainian president zelensky and get testimony from a number of different witnesses. on friday we saw secretary of state mike pompeo subpoenaed by three different congressional committees. they are looking for documents from pomp greo and the state department by friday.
they're also looking for depositions from top state department officials including curt volker. there's going to be a lot of pressure on the white house to hand over these documents and make these witnesses available particularly given the deadline placed on pompeo. house democrats have said if the administration does not comply with that october 4th deadline for the subpoena, they will consider it obstruction under the impeachment inquiry. >> here to discuss is former federal prosecutor gene rossi. how important is it for the whistleblower to testify? >> it's absolutely crucial. when you have a whistleblower write a very detailed report and in july of 1997 i was a whistleblower in the department of justice. i went through some tough times. but when you are a
whistleblower, you have to make yourself available to the individuals who most want that information. and here it's congress. because they want to knows what your basis for making these allegations. is it personal knowledge? is it hearsay? is it double hearsay? is it documents? and here's the key. whenever you have a whistleblower, corroboration is most important. there's a case called illinois versus gates, a supreme court case where the government used an anonymous tip, not even a person they knew, but they corroborated the allegations. here we know who the whistleblower is. >> we don't know. we don't know who he is. >> we'll know eventually. >> right. when we talk about corroboration the whistleblower in the complaint does say that this information was all coming to him or her from multiple
officials, a half dozen officials at least. would that whistleblower need to tell congress who those officials are if he or she were to appear before congress? >> absolutely. because if you come into a meeting or a hearing behind closed doors, i assume they're going to say who told you this and who told the person who told you this? they're going to peel that allegation like an onion. and they will absolutely want the names of the persons from whom the whistleblower got his information for obvious reasons. they're going to do a beeline to those individuals and find out where did you get your information? was it personal knowledge or did somebody tell you something? and also do you have any documents to back it up? when i was a federal prosecutor almost 30 years, i always tried to peel that onion to find out
the who, what, when, where and why of an investigation. and that's what the senate and the house has to do. >> you've been a whistleblower. you've been in the shoes of this person who is anonymous right now. what do you think is going through that person's mind? >> well, if he's like me, i didn't get a good night's sleep for probably six months. i wasn't the most popular person on the fourth floor for about six months. here's what i went through. i was a supporter of president clinton as a career attorney but i supported president clinton, i was a career lawyer, but i referred for witness tampering and obstruction two high level clinton appointees in the department of justice. and it was extremely unpleasant at best.
>> i want to ask you more about the process moving forward. let's listen. >> impeachment is after you pursue the facts further and then you make a decision whether to impeach. >> so this is an effort to determine what the facts are and to determine if the allegations are correct. >> well, no. i think they are quite self-evident. no, but they are. >> gene, does it seem like this is going to move pretty quickly, that democrats aren't going to call dozens of witnesses? >> i think it's going to move quickly. i don't know if they're not going to call dozens of witnesses. i suspect they are. this is going to move with al k alacrity. they will have a critical mass in the house of representatives to vote on articles of impeachment, probably about two or three. i'll tell you why. this is a simple fact pattern.
the president of the united states held up allegedly, allegedly, $400 million, which i might add would be 10% of ukraine's military budget. that money he held up was to buy javelins and security information. and he held that up for what purpose? allegedly, to get them to interfere in our election by getting dirt on joe biden and his son hunter. that's not a very complicated fact pattern. that's called quid pro quo. it's either called bribery or extortion. simple. >> all right. stay with me, because there's more to discuss. it's been quite the week for the president's personal attorney rudy giuliani as he sits square in the middle of a scandal involving trump and ukraine. up next, how it all began with a phone call. imagine. megared omega-3 power for your whole body. now with an antioxidant blend for great sleep,
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here! being here matters but the cold and flu keeps some students from being here up to 60 million days every year. introducing 'here for healthy schools' a new program from lysol, dedicated to curbing the spread of illness in classrooms by teaching healthy habits and partnering with a smart thermometer company. learn about our mission at lysol.com 31 times. that's how often rudy giuliani's name comes up in the whistleblower's complaint that accuses president trump of abusing his office for political gain with a foreign country. the complaint is just 9 pages, but giuliani's name is in there 31 times. so how did the president's personal lawyer get into the center of this now fast-moving impeachment inquiry when he doesn't even technically work for the government? cnn's michael warren and i talked about this a short time ago. >> it's really because as the
president's lawyer, he's a close advisor, unofficial, not in the government but advisor to the president, in his ear talking with the president about all of these frankly conspiracy theories about connections between the ukraine and potential cases that could go after the president's political enemies, particularly democrats in the 2016 election and joe biden, the possible 2020 democratic nominee. this goes all the way back to december 2018 when giuliani first met with a former ukrainian official. he continued over the several months into early 2019, a meeting with current and former ukrainian officials to gather information about these cases, all the while talking with his client, president trump, about this. where this gets complicated is, as you mentioned, the whistleblower report mentions giuliani's name several times, as well as that transcript between donald trump and zelensky, the president of ukraine when they spoke on the phone july 25th. that has raised a lot of questions as well as giuliani's own media appearances and
conversations including with cnn where he's talked about a state department official who resigned on friday as being someone who directed him or maybe suggested to him that he connect with the ukrainians. that is going to raise a lot more questions. again, rudy giuliani is right there in the center of it all. >> former federal prosecutor gene rossi is back with us. also matthew rosenberg. he's also the investigative correspondent for the "new york times." let's listen to rudy giuliani earlier today when he was pressed on appearing before the house intel committee. >> i wouldn't cooperate with adam schiff. i think adam schiff should be removed. if they remove adam schiff, if they put a neutral person in, if they put a democrat in who hasn't expressed an opinion -- >> you're not going to cooperate? >> i didn't say that. >> you said you wouldn't do it. >> i said i will consider it. i have to be guided by my client frankly. i'm a lawyer. it's his privilege, not mine.
if he decides that he wants me to testify, of course i'll testify even though i think adam schiff is an illegitimate chairman. >> does attorney/client privilege hold up here? >> you're asking me? >> yes. >> no way, no how. here's why. the attorney/client privilege protects obviously confidential communications, but if i am your attorney and you're my client and you ask me to talk to third parties, ie, ukrainian officials, state department officials, bill barr, members of the justice department. if you authorize me as your attorney to talk to other people about what we talked about, there's no privilege. it's called the third party exception. there is no way he can invoke a privilege for the topics that adam schiff wants to talk about. >> based on what we know, could giuliani be in any legal jeopardy? >> let's put this way.
if i were rudy giuliani, i would put duct tape over my mouth and go into the witness protection program, because every time he gets on television, every time he talks to a reporter, he not only does a disservice to his client, he possibly puts himself in legal jeopardy. why? he allegedly is part of a conspiracy to persuade a foreign country, ukraine, to interfere in our election. that is against the law. >> matthew, i want to turn to the server and that information regarding some of the president's top secret calls is being stored on. what do we know about the type of information that is typically hidden on this type of private system? >> this is a system that is used for the most classified, covert action programs. you know, if you're talking about killing somebody overseas,
a drone strike, some kind of shared intelligence with another country. so there are circumstances where a presidential phone call or conversation could end up on that server if it was with a foreign government, say the pakistanis talking about the drone program in the tribal areas there, or talking to the british prime minister about a secret covert action program, then yes, that would be there. but everything else is an incredibly restricted, tightly held secret. so it's very unusual to put things there because they might be embarrassing. >> we've learned that extraordinary steps were taken in other cases in order to restrict access to the president's calls between putin as well as his calls with the crown prince of saudi arabia. are there national security implications if these interactions aren't shared with those who are normally privy to them? >> absolutely. you tribute the notes of this call so people in the government have visibility on what they're discussing, what the president wants, what they want. to hide that not only keeps away that visibility that people up and down in the state department
and the cia and elsewhere need to do their jobs. it also raises the question what are they discussing, were there deals cut, were there agreements made? that's a real issue when you are the chief executive of the most powerful country in the world and nobody knows what you're talking about with foreign leaders. >> what do you make of the president's response, tweeting more than a hundred times since the story broke. he is in full attack mode. could his defense work? >> no. here's why. he has already satisfied the allegations that we're making against him. he has admitted the conduct in the july 25th "perfect call." it wasn't a perfect call. he basically admitted, "i discussed with the president of ukraine the 4$400 million that i'm holding up basically and i discussed digging up dirt on joe
biden and hunter biden." every time he talks, every time he tweets about this matter, he is putting himself potentially in legal jeopardy, in legal jeopardy. >> matthew, let's listen to the president's former national security advisor and his take on the allegations facing trump. >> yeah. i'm deeply disturbed by it as well. this entire mess has me frustrated. it is a bad day and a bad week for this president and this country if he is asking for political dirt on an opponent. >> this was a former top official for the president showing grave concern about his actions. what message does that signal to the rest of his current administration? >> i mean, it certainly signals, look, the president has crossed what many people consider a very serious line and that if you stay there, you're going to be doing it with him. i think that's the message that a lot of people are sending.
i don't think mr. bossert is the only former administration official who sees a lot of trouble here. >> i'm sure you have been talking to your national security sources inside the administration. i'm curious what you're hearing, what they're saying to you privately about their mindset right now as all of this is playing out? >> it's hard to find somebody who says, oh, this is fine, don't worry about it. you know, this is the kind of thing that gets national security professionals worked up immensely. i mean, you're on the phone suggesting not only to interfere in an american election, you're also encouraging an investigation of a former vice president and you're doing it in ways that have no visibility for people inside the government. they are gassed at this. i don't think there are many people who see this as no big deal, it's a perfect phone call, let's move on. >> you were on the byline that broke the news. that was ten days ago.
so much as happened since then. what do you make of the speed the democrats are moving at? >> they're moving really quickly. we've seen this before with this white house. the second you get a crack, it opens up and things start pouring out. there's a lot there. there seems like there may actually be a lot more to come as well. if it does, i suspect we'll be finding out in pretty short order. >> great to have both of you with us. thank you. now this week's before the bell. here's christine romans. hi, christine. >> hi ana. the impeachment drama in washington is just another question mark for wall street. last week the stock market averages jumped around, wobbled really as investors reacted to every political headline. still, markets are betting an impeachment inquiry won't alter the fundamentals, corporate profits and economic growth. investors will be watching key economic data due this week. in august the manufacturing sector shrank for the first time in three years. on tuesday we'll find out if it
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the whistleblower complaint alleging president trump pressured the ukrainian president to investigate joe biden and his son sent shock waves through washington. that will be felt for weeks to come if not longer. the ramifications will be felt way beyond the walls of the white house and congress since there are also serious national security implications. that brings us to your weekend presidential brief.
this is a segment we bring to you every weekend with the most pressing national security issues the president will face tomorrow. part of the whistleblower complaint is that the white house was locking down the transcript of this ukrainian phone call. what impact does that have on our national security? >> the white house should be mitigating counter intelligence risks, not adding to them. we know that president trump and his associates were the subject of counter intelligence investigates during the 2016 campaign. we don't know if those probes have ended. but we have new red flags. the whistleblower complaint and subsequent reporting indicate that the white house head reid readouts and records on a classified server and failed to make readouts of key meetings with vladimir putin. key u.s. officials may have been left in the dark on what the president said, but that didn't erase the contents of those conversations from foreign officials' memory, particularly
if the president said something sensitive. that becomes a manipulation point for foreign governments. what this means is that the president has become even more of a counter intelligence risk because of these white house practices than he may have been previously. >> in what ways might this undercut the intelligence community? >> it has a real operational impact. typically after a head of state call or meeting key officials in the intelligence community get a readout, the director of national security, cia director and senior analysts. there's a reason behind this. as intelligence analysts are collecting on foreign sources, they may hear those foreign sources discussing a presidential call or meeting. if they don't know what actually happened, they have no baseline for vetting that intelligence and they won't know whether to pass it up to chain or to policy makers. the failure to provide a realout to key intelligence community analysts could impact policy
making. >> the justice department says, the president has not spoken with the attorney general about having ukraine investigate anything related to former vice president biden or his son. we know a.g. barr's name was mentioned a couple times in the transcript from the president's phone call with the ukrainian president. we know giuliani was put in touch with the ukrainians. does that sound right to you? >> it would be highly unusual. it would be a gross change in practice. the ag was named as a point of contact for follow-up. if he didn't at least get a verbal readout after the call, that would be a big problem. this is just the latest indication that the president uses a friends and family list rather than official channels to conduct business. we have previous reporting that jared kushner left the former secretary of state in the dark on key meetings. as you mentioned, now we're hearing that the state department put giuliani in touch with the ukrainians and didn't even alert attorney general barr about what was going on. this will probably lead foreign officials to really circumvent official channels, circumvent experts and just go to the
president's friends and family list. this is not an approach we want other countries to take. the president's conversation with zelensky and soliciting foreign campaign interference is exactly the kind of thing we tell other countries not to do. we tell other countries not to rely on personal relationships rather than official channels. >> in terms of getting to the bottom of exactly what happened we know secretary of state mike pompeo has been subpoenaed. also five state department officials have already been deposed. is this going to impact the work of the state department? >> i think it will impact the whole government. foreign officials have good reason to be wary about communicating with the u.s. right now. the state department is under enormous strain just responding to congressional inquiries.
bill clinton after his impeachment apologized to u.s. personal for the drain on resources. finally i think this will have a chilling effect within the u.s. government itself. if you're working on ukraine right now or russia, you have every reason to think that everything that you do could end up in front of congress and that may have a chilling effect on your desire to really show up at work and communicate with your colleagues and your foreign counterparts. >> thank you for coming on. the former u.s. special envoy to ukraine is set to field questions from three congressional committees this week. up next, fresh reaction from ukraine. live to kiev straight ahead. cough? wh'y works on that too. and lasts 12 hours. 12 hours?! who studies that long?! only mucinex dm relieves wet and dry coughs for 12 hours with 2 medicines in 1 pill. if you have moderate or psoriatic arthritis, little things can be a big deal.
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the ride, then derailed. eyewitnesss said they watched in horror as the victims fell to the ground. a formal investigation is now underway to determine how this happened and who will be held responsible. in the coming days, all eyes will be on capitol hill as the former u.s. special enjoy for ukraine will appear and take questions in front of three congressional committees. the reaction to kurt volker's resignation is pouring in from well beyond washington. ukrainian officials are weighing in on his sudden departure, which came just one day after the whistleblower complaint was released, mentioning him by name. cnn's matthew chance joins us in kiev tonight. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: well, the ukrainians are deeply concerned about the resignation of kurt volker. they've issued a statement saying they have deep redwrgret that he's taken this decision and talked about how he was an important figure in the relationship between the united
states and ukraine. he assured the free slflow of diplomatic support to this country from the united states. there is a sense he will be genuinely missed. there's a great deal of mounting concern about the crisis unfolding in the united states over ukraine, what impact that could have on this country. and its all-important strategic relationship with the u.s. the ukrainians depend on bipartisan support in the u.s. to provide it with that diplomatic support and the military aid it needs in its confrontation with russia. so far ukrainian officials have been really tight lipped about speaking out on the issue, i expect concerned they're going to make the matter even worse for themselves. but a senior political aide of the president zelensky tonight appeared on ukrainian television and tried to distance his country from the divisive battle going on in the u.s. take a listen.
>> translator: these are the internal affairs of the united states. we see in the usa our friend, our strategic partner. what happens there is their internal political kitchen. we will not take part in this in any way. our friendship and support is bilateral. it is there, it is very powerful and i'm sure it will continue to be so. >> reporter: so that bilateral support, again, is that important strategic necessity for the ukrainians. they're concerned that they're being basically torn between the republicans and the democrats in this ongoing political dispute in the u.s. ana. >> matthew chance, thank you. new tonight, a manhunt is underway for four inmates who escaped an ohio jail by overpowering two correctional officers with a homemade weapon. authorities say the inmates stole the keys to a jail
employ employee's car. investigators believe at least one person aided in their escape and the four inmates could be considered extremely dangerous. the new york police department tonight is mourning the loss of one of its own, 33-year-old ryan mullkeen was killed this morning in the bronx in an area afflicted by gang activity and recent shootings. while chasing a suspect on foot, numerous shots were fired and the officer was shot three times. five other officers returned fire, killing the 27-year-old suspect who has an extensive criminal record. this morning nypd officers lined up in the bronx to give a final salute to their fallen brother. officer mullkeen was a 6 1/2
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she's back. lisaling has an all-new season of "this is life." in the first episode she's taking on another taboo topic, online pornography. lisa looks how online porn is not only addicting but dangerous to an entire generation's idea of sex and intimacy. >> before you took this class had anyone ever talked to you about porn? when i was your age, i didn't have any sex education in school at all. in fact, you know, my grandmother when i was a kid was like, never let a man see you naked. like that's how i was raised, like super conservative. if i had a phone and could access hardcore porn, i can't even imagine how i would have
dealt with that. what do you think the right age is for kids to start learning about sex and, you know, even learning about porn? >> i feel like it's when you first give your child a phone or when someone has access to computers or internet. that's when they should be told because they will find it one way or another. >> it's not something that's really taught in school. that's a place where we basically spend like our entire lives. i feel like it should be a mandatory class. >> yeah. sex ed here in the united states is this like big kerfluffle of nonsense and confusion because it teaches you how to be safe but not the pleasures. porn teaches you the pleasures sort of, but not how to be safe. >> lisa ling is joining us. what a provocative question you asked. as a parent, i think about how my 3-year-old daughter looks at my phone, knows how to access
the internet for youtube videos, which we try to restrict but sometimes you turn around like, whoa, how did she end up there. what a topic to tackle for this first episode of the new season. obviously pornography has been around for ages. why is online porn becoming such a problem and what kind of damage is it doing? >> well, you said it yourself. i mean, these days whether your child has a mobile device or has access to a mobile device, he or she can access pornography. and even if you have very strict filters on your phone, you know, i mean, you have a 3-year-old, but that 3-year-old is probably pretty savvy with these devices. they can bipartisan theypass th pretty easily. if you just put a couple of words into google, it's astounding the images that come up. for parents that are watching, i think it's really important that you start at least thinking about conversation a conversation with your kids,
maybe when they're really young. i have a 6-year-old. start talking about basic anatomy, but really take a role in their digital lives and talk to them about whether they see things that might be confusing or disturbing and allowing them to have an open door to be able to talk to you about anything. >> porn addiction isn't actually recognized as a medical condition but i know you talked to a number of people who say they are addicted to online pornography. >> that's the thing. the people that we interviewed, a number of them first saw pornography when they were like 8 years old. that's really, really young. given what's available to them, some of the things they can access are violent or extreme, just think about how that could affect how they view sex or relationships. once you see something that may disturb you, you can't erase
that from your brain. and so the people that we spent time with, they say that they have hurt themselves physically, they've hurt themselves psychologically. and no, it's not medically recognized, but there's a website called no fap. we interviewed the founder and he has 500,000 members who are seeking out this website because they need to talk to other people about what's going on with them. >> to think that kids as young as 7 or 8 are at risk of being exposed to online pornography, if they see porn online, how do parents talk to them about it? >> well, i would suggest having just a conversation about basic an matomy when they're really young and talk about the things they're doing online. again, i can't emphasize this more strongly enough. we have to take an active role in our kids' digital lives. it's just imperative.
>> what else do you have in store this season? >> it's a very diverse season. our next episode will be about ben zoe die as pe-- they're som the most widely prescribed medications on earth, but doctors have been overprescribing them in some cases and people have really been dealing with devastating consequences. we embed with a group of female marines in marine combat training where they are training alongside men for the first time in camp pendleton. we have a sweet episode about identical twins. and we also embed with the nypd during their highest threat day event of the year. >> sounds so interesting. your work is always thought provoking and informative and impactful. looking forward to the new season. thank you. an all new season premiers tonight at 10:00 on cnn.
after a break, "saturday night live" is barack wick with take on the 2020 candidates. >> senator elizabeth warren. >> i hope you guys enjoyed hot girl summer because now it's school librarian fall. i have the energy of a mother of five boys who all play a different sport. let's do this. >> we'd also like to welcome we would like to welcome kamala harris. [ applause ] >> now, aaron, that is little girl you just introduced, that little girl was me. [ laughter ] >> yes, i know senator. >> okay. just checking because i am not just that little girl. >> i am also america's cool
aunt. a fun aunt. i call it a funt. the kind of funt that'll give you weed. can i successfully seduce a much younger man? you better funtly believe it. >> our next question. >> yes, my question is for senator sanders. democrats are going forward with impeachment quickly, do you have the patience to see that through? >> patience? don't talk to me about patience. it takes me 40 minutes to figure out how to turn on the tv every single time if i actually hit input, that's a whole day. done. done. sometimes i sit on the porch and do literally nothing for six
hours. >> next question, yes? >> what if joe biden gets implicated in this ukraine scandal in some way? >> oh no. that would be terrible. >> now, we'll go to joe biden. >> look. i am better forever, i have always worked but now you are mad at me. [ laughter ] >> break up america. i would like to say one more time barack. en. her br beif. here! here! here! here!
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>> > as we wrap up childhood cancer awareness month. i want to share some great news about a story that hits close to home for us here. remember we told you a story of the three-year-old daughter of wajahat ali. that three years old received a transplant on tuesday. she's recovering nicely and thanking everyone for their support including the donor's family. i told the donor's family my life belongs to them. there are still much goodness in the world. don't lose hope ever. we are keeping ali's family and
so much more than i could have imagined. my grandfather was born in a shack in pennsylvania, his father was a miner, they were immigrants from italy and somewhere along the way that man changed his name and transformed himself into a successful mid-century american man. he had a whole life that i didn't know anything about. he was just my beloved grandpa. bring your family history to life like never before. get started for free at ancestry.com bring your family history to life like never before. (door bell rings) it's ohey. this is amazing. with moderate to severe ulcerative colitis, are you okay? even when i was there, i never knew when my symptoms would keep us apart. so i talked to my doctor about humira. i learned humira can help get, and keep uc under control when other medications haven't worked well enough. and it helps people achieve control that lasts. so you can experience few or no symptoms.
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