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tv   The Lead With Jake Tapper  CNN  September 30, 2019 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT

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the trump administration, the trump white house. and the question is, where do those two areas conflict with one another and that is what they want to learn about. they want to know what the state department was specifically doing with rudy giuliani. he has said a lot. he said they ordered him to be meeting with ukrainian -- >> we have to go. up up against "the lead." they'll be talking about this. kylie atwood, thank you very much. "the lead" starts now. >> reporter: breaking news, rudy giuliani just slapped with a subpoena. "the lead" starts right now. also breaking, fresh cnn polls coming out right now on "the lead." asking the nation should congress impeach the president. president trump today firing off tweets heavy on insults, short on facts. warning of a civil war-like divide and saying he wants to meet a protected whistle-blower that blew the cover on his call
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with ukraine. and key hearing and deposition this is week as speaker pelosi tries to not look to hungy to kick the president out of office. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. welcome to "the lead." i'm erica hill in for jake today. and we begin with breaking news. president trump's attorney rudy giuliani subpoenaed by house democrats for documents related to ukraine and the impeachment inquiry. but first we have brand-new cnn polling breaking right now which shows nearly half of americans support the impeachment of president trump. 47% say president trump should be removed from office. 45% are opposed to impeachment. now that is the highest level of support for impeachment we've seen in a cnn poll in a year, including after the mueller report was released. and as jeff zeleny reports from washington, the poll shows an increasing number of republicans and independents now support
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impeaching president trump. >> reporter: americans are now evenly divided on impeachment with a notable rise among independents and republicans supporting president trump's removal from office. a new cnn poll just released finds 47% of americans believe the president should be impeached, up from 41% in may. the change is not fueled by democrats. roughly three quarters favor impeachment as they did during our poll four months ago but the support among independents has grown by 11 points and by eight points among republicans. for now public sentiments is shifting. 45% of americans oppose the historic move, down from 54% in may. a week after speaker nancy pelosi opened an impeachment inquiry, she said democrats would build their case on patriotism, not partisan politics. >> let us try not to make it further divisive, but we cannot ignore our oath of office to protect and defend the constitution of the united states. >> reporter: the call for impeachment is resonate ago mong younger americans, the poll
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found with 60% of those under 35 now in favor of removing trump from office. compared to 43% who felt that way in may. the shift comes within his own party. among republicans and gop-leaning independents underage 50, support for impeachment has climbed from 9% in may to 22% now. as the house is set to begin hearings and depositions this week, the poll finds that 48% of americans say the president abused his power to gain political advantage against his rival joe biden in his conversations with the ukrainian president. 39% say trump did not improperly use his office and 10% say they need to learn more. while the poll shows unmistakable movement, democrats still have a case to make to the broader american public. >> he wants to mount a defense i'm certainly willing to listen to it but that is the evidence in front of us now. >> reporter: convicting is a high bar, needing a vote of two-thirds of the republican-controlled senate but mitch mcconnell saying today the
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senate will consider any impeachment articles. >> well under the senate rules we're required to take it up if the house does go down that path and we'll follow the senate rules. >> reporter: so the bottom line is this, one week into this historic moment of impeachment public sentiment is clearly shifting. because of independents, republicans and particularly among younger republicans. this new poll also shows that democrats must still make their case to the american public. despite everything we've learned over the last week, erica, 45% still oppose impeachment. the question is whether that number keeps falling as the proceedings intensify. erica. >> jeff zeleny with the latest on the numbers. thank you. also want to go now to cnn's manu raju for more on our other breaking news. rudy giuliani subpoenaed by house democrats. so what more do we know about the subpoena? >> reporter: the spooen is demanding documents by october 15th, going close to the president's inner circle. the most direct move to try to get more information about
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exactly what happened in this effort by trump and trump associates to apparently urge ukrainian officials to investigate joe biden and joe biden's son. giuliani of course has publicly admitted urging the ukrainians to go forward even saying as much on cnn just a couple of weeks ago. that is cited in the letter from three key house democratic chairman who are demanding the documents. this subpoena was issued by the house intelligence committee and also the same chairman want to talk to some of the giuliani's close business associates to understand exactly what happened here. now erica, this is just the latest in a rapidly-moving impeachment investigation. this intelligence committee wants to speak -- plans to speak this friday with the intelligence committee inspector general, this is the second time they've spoken to michael atkinson and also the three committees plan to have depositions with five state department officials, one we know of that is coming on thursday as the president's former envoy to ukraine kurt
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volker mentioned in the whistle-blower complaint but now the question is whether or not they want to bring in rudy giuliani to talk to them. but at the moment the subpoena for documents, we'll see if giuliani complies, erica. >> that is what we'll watch for. manu, thank you. john avalon, i'll go straight to you. you are my rudy giuliani expert given your history. >> that is true. >> and this is for the documents. this is not at the moment for rudy giuliani. do you think he will comply on the documents? >> he has been on both sides of that question in recent interviews. i think he's libel to say there is attorney/client privilege with the president and woe -- he would only testify in public at length if the president approved it. that said, i worked for rudy giuliani for years and i think he did an extraordinary job as mayor of new york and i was proud to work for him. the last few months have not been his finest hour. and i think he's put himself in real jeopardy and i think you'll
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see folks in the administration and the state department try to scapegoat him and i think that will be profoundly awkward to watch. >> and it is interesting how this question of attorney/client privilege plays out because he told the "atlantic" last week, i'm not doing this as a lawyer, i'm doing this as someone who is looking to stand up for a better government. >> you will find rudy quotes on all side of the issue. >> find the one that works for you, can't you. as we look at the polling coming out here and what we're looking at, all of this coming to a head at 4:00 just for us. looking at this polling, support for and against impeachment hovers around 50%. when you figure in the margin of error here. and jeff zeleny brought up the point, keith, about whether democrats still have work to do. because 45% say i do not support this. >> it is kind of an astonishingly high number. it is increased since the last cnn poll. but if you go back and look at history, in 1973 when the watergate impeachment proceedings began, only 19% of
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americans supported impeaching or removing the president. a year later it was 57%. and nixon resigned from office. we're starting from a higher bar here. we're almost at 50%. we're only one week into this. that is kind of amazing. not to mention the fact that nixon was a popular president just re-elected and in a landslide election -- >> 49 states. >> exactly. in a landslide election and donald trump barely got elected and lost the popular vote and unpopular. he's never been above 50% in the public opinion poll averages so i think democrats are in a strong position going into this. the public still has to be educate the but that is the purpose of the impeachment inquiry. >> and i'm struck by that number, that movement among republicans, that 9% movement among republicans. that is significant. that is the number i'm paying more attention to. and what i would caution democrats is in the interest of educating the public, and letting this investigation bear out facts not to appear as
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though you are just trying to move poll numbers and nancy pelosi caution to donald trump, let's not try to make this worse, i think it should also be her -- heard by democrats who are making t-shirts about impeaching the president. i don't think that will help and i think there should be a -- a sobriety around a dark history. >> and that is what the speaker is calling for. this should be solemn and should be a sober moment. when we look at these numbers, though, and, rich, i'll throw to you and the shift in republicans and independents and the subpoena for rudy giuliani, how does this work together and this polling not just looking at how president trump looks at this but how rudy giuliani is. >> and we'll wait and see how it plays out and the top line is the same as other polls. even split, just below 50% support but in light of the polling, what you've seen is what you expect which is
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democrats picking up the 20% who weren't there yet on impeachment. what makes the cnn poll different is this democrat line is the same and you've picked up republican and independent support. if that is accurate, that is a big deal. but i think we have to see how it settles down as i say over time. rudy, one thing that is interesting as the commissioner -- has been his worst enemy in the media appearance, the final paragraph of the letter telling him he's been subpoenaing for the document cites media appearances and said you called for an investigation of joe biden. which goes to a typical lawyer is very cautious, very careful, doesn't get out there creating new problems for himself or his client. and that is not what rudy is -- >> and that is not the story of our times, rich. but i want to point out one thing about the cnn poll that is significant. the phrasing of the question is does -- should he be impeached and removed from office. that is not open-ended should there be an impeachment inquiry.
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removed from office. the highest standard, something happened to no president because both andrew johnson and clinton and then nixon resigned before being impeached. the wording, the number in the cnn poll is up among republicans and independents is significant. >> but i wonder if you just said should donald trump be removed from office, what the number would be. because i wonder if impeachment is caught up in the question of just whether -- >> which way do you think it would go? >> i think it would go lower. >> it is also interesting that 60% of young people support removing the president from office. for the republicans, that has to be a scary number. >> not surprisingly. >> it may not be surprising but you can't build political party, a feudure of a political party when the potential base in the future is not even there for you. >> to put it mildly, no crap. >> well, yeah. >> and that is the problem. >> they didn't support this president who in part were
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worried about and stuff like this happening, we were worried about stuff like this. but a lot of republicans especially who those of us involved in the 2020 autopsy in trying to reach out to new kinds of voters, women, gays, millennials and really started to see progress, we were worried about this very thing, the collapse of the republican party to a lot of the important voters. because my dad won't be around forever to keep voting for republicans like donald trump. >> i will have more on our breaking news. >> just to be clear. >> we love you too. more on our breaking news. president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani just subpoenaed for documents related to ukraine. next, what happens if he chooses not to comply. anyone can deliver pizza. only marco's can deliver america's most loved pizza. hot and fresh, and right to your door. dough made from scratch, every day. sauce from our original recipe. and authentic toppings like crispy, old world pepperoni™. because the italian way is worth celebrating.
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breaking news. president trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani subpoenaed. house democrats seeking documents related to ukraine. the basis of this fast-moving impeachment inquiry. and all of this comes as the new cnn polling just released unveils that 47% of americans say president trump should be impeached and removed from office. cnn's evan perez joining us live. so what more are you learn being this subpoena? >> reporter: well, this is something that certainly people close to the president were anticipating. they expected that this moment was going to come. and so they've been kind of preparing as to what to answer the question of what is the privilege, the president's personal attorney and will they declare some kind of privilege
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and so you could expect that is where this conversation is going to go next. but i should point out that there is a couple of complications. rudy giuliani last week in an appearance on fox news shared some information, some text messages he said that were -- with kurt volker who was at the time the envoy to ukraine for the administration and he showed what he said were communications, internal communications that showed that he wasn't just operating on his own. that he was operating with the blessing, the full blessing of the united states government. so you could bet that that is going to complicate their efforts to try to keep this information from congress because he's already publicly shared what he said were communications ongoing and i think a judge may end up having to look at this and will have to decide whether or not rudy giuliani essentially pierced that privilege by sharing that information publicly. and of course it might take a little time before they can do that but i do think it makes it
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difficult for him to claim everything is protected by privilege. >> we'll be watching for that. evan, appreciate it. thank you. i want to bring in preet bharara, the attorney for the southern district of new york and fired by president trump. and i just want to play a little bit of what rudy giuliani had to say yesterday on abc. take a listen. >> will you cooperate with the house intelligence committee? >> i won't cooperate with adam schiff. i think adam schiff should be removed. >> so that is your answer, you're not going to cooperate. >> i didn't say that. i said i will consider it. >> so two answers there. but bottom line, does he need to cooperate? >> yeah, i think he does. i don't see the privilege that prevents him from providing information that is lawfully and appropriately subpoenaed by the three different committees. look, there is also -- before we get to the legal aspect of it, there is a pragmatic aspect. rudy giuliani and others in support of the president have gone on television day after day after day saying as the thrust of their argument here that the whistle-blower relies on hearsay
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information, second-hand information thereby begging people what has been done here, to get direct information and direct evidence. so i don't see how you prevent that from coming forward if your whole argument is there is nothing to see here and as evan said in the preview, rudy has gone on television time and time again perhaps waiving privileges and talking about the other evidence that he has so i don't see how you get around it without looking like you are blocking a legitimate effort to do an impeachment inquiry before you make a decision about impeachment itself. and then on the legal issues, it is unclear to me what legal representation rudy giuliani was engaging in. there is no deliberative process or executive privilege that i could think of given that he's outside of the government. he was operating as a free private citizen and not providing legal help so pragmatically and politically and legally, i don't see what leg he has to stand on just because he doesn't like adam schiff. >> and just to follow up on that. he said last week to the atlantic, quote, i'm not acting
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as a lawyer, i'm acting as someone who is devoted most of his life to straightening out government in talking about what he was doing. and again as we know we hear different things from rudy giuliani based on the moment. we just saw it in the abc interview. but the fact that he said that i'm not acting as a lawyer and then went and said you'll have to ask my clients if i can talk or not, referring to president trump. where does it stand? >> so, look, his words will come back to haunt him. i read the letter quickly, the cover letter to the subpoenas and makes references to rudy giuliani's appearance on television including the notorious appearance of last week on cnn's own chris cuomo show where he says, of course i looked into whether or not the ukrainian president could pursue an investigation of joe biden. so he keeps saying things that puts on the table basically what the committees are asking for. the other thing that is interesting about the letter, the cover letter sent to rudy giuliani, some of his associates, it has stark language.
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there is a saeng, i'm paraphrasing and i don't it it in front of me suggesting that rudy giuliani is part of and they use this word, part of a scheme to bring pressure to bear for aid to donald trump's campaign with respect to joe biden. and so they are not accusing him of anything yet but by putting that language in the letter and also asking for -- i think it is four single spaced pages of documents relating to all aspects of rudy giuliani's business in ukraine and conversations with the state department and with the u.s. attorney general, they're biting off a lot here and they're suggesting some pretty strong things about rudy giuliani also. >> what happens if he doesn't comply? >> well, there is general political pressure, which takes whatever course it takes. and you have to fight it in the courts and depending on how quickly a judge can decide these things it could take a while. for these things to have proper momentum i think the public pressure matters a lot. depending on how rudy di
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die-decides to go and he's begging for direct information and i don't think that makes him look good and i think public sentiment will turn sour especially since the administration contrary to some predictions produced the whistle-blower complaint unredacted, mostly and the transcript of the phone call very quickly saying there is nothing to see here. it is all transparent. and how do you now say after it is sunk into the minds of people that it is inappropriate and now say we gave you those things and that is not enough to impeach because it is indirect and -- and hearsay but we won't give you more. >> but it is not the first time we'll hear the similar argument from the administration. it may be there is nothing to see her but we won't give you anything to see because we decide not to do it. i want to get your take on -- you say you don't see anything that would amount to executive privilege. i would point out that has not stopped this administration in the past. the president saying that i want to invoke executive privilege
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even if the person is not connected to me and working in the white house. that, too, can delay this. >> reporter: look, if the question is does the president and his supporters, do they make outrageous and outlandish claims and allegations based on no law whatsoever or no actual basis in law whatsoever, yeah, they do that all of the time. most notably in the last 24 hours the president of the united states has suggested that adam schiff, the chair of the intel committee, should be arrested for treason. so, yeah, they make outlandish claims all of the time. i think their ability to get away with making those claims both with the courts and also with the public is running thin. >> preet bharara, appreciate your insight. thank you. >> reporter: my pleasure. how will president trump respond to the news that his personal attorney rudy giuliani has been subpoenaed? that's next.
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back with lots of breaking news for you on this monday. president trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani subpoenaed by house democrats leading the impeachment inquiry. as our new cnn poll shows 47% of americans say the president
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should be impeached and removed from office. and as kaitlan collins reports, president trump is lashing out amid all of this, and promoting the idea that impeachment could lead to civil war. >> this whole thing is a disgrace. >> reporter: while aides wish he would focus on an impeachment strategy, president trump this afternoon is demanding to know the identity of the whistle-blower. >> we're trying to find out about a whistle-blower. when you have a whistle-blower that reports things that were incorrect. >> reporter: he's already raising the idea of arresting the house intelligence chairman for treason. >> he actually took words and made it up. >> reporter: after adam schiff read a fictionalized account of his call with the ukrainian president. >> and by the way, don't call me again. i'll call you when you've done what i asked. >> reporter: but as trump fumes, white house aides fear they've squandered an opportunity to shape public opinion. >> the president is the whistle-blower here. >> reporter: trump is resisting calls to create an impeachment response team or hire new attorneys. >> this is about proving that
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donald trump was framed by the democrats. >> reporter: sources say trump thinks doing either will make him look weak. but the void has left republicans scrambling to defiend him. >> you just added another word. >> no. it is in the transcript. >> you said i could do a favor though. >> yes, it is in the white house transcript. >> when i read -- >> reporter: instead they are leveling unsubstantiated allegations against joe biden and his son. >> guess what, daddy comes running to the rescue and the vice president of the united states. >> that is not what happened. sir, that is not what happened. >> reporter: but not everyone is coming to trump's defense. including his first homeland security adviser. >> it is a bad day and a bad week for this president and for this country if he is asking for political dirt on an opponent. >> reporter: tom bossert said he told trumps there was no basis to the theory that ukraine interfered instead of russia. >> i'm frustrated with what he and the legal team is doing and repeating that debunked theory
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to the president. it sticks in his mind when he hears it over and over again. >> reporter: now, of course, erica, this whistle-blower is entitled by law to remain anonymous if they so wish. something their attorney pointed out on twitter shortly after the president made those comments saying that they were trying to identify this person. but of course we should note the president said they are trying to figure that out and didn't say what steps they are taking to do so. >> oh, to be a fly on the wall and find out. kaitlan collins at the white house, thank you. as we look at what is happening here in terms of the president promoting this idea from a supporter that impeachment could lead to what would feel like a civil war, republican adam kensinger rebuking that language and noting i have visited nations ravaged by civil war and never imagined such a quote to be repeated by a president. this is beyond repugnant. what do you make of the idea of a president supporting this idea from one of his supporters that impeachment could lead to civil
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war? >> it is extraordinary. it is stunning. it is divisive. it strikes me as odd because i spent eight years watching republicans accuse barack obama of being divisive and from my perspective as a liberal democrat, barack obama bent over backwards to accommodate republicans and they kicked him repeatedly and refused to agree with his accommodations but this guy, donald trump, makes no effort to reach out to the other party. he makes noef to-- effort to reh across the aisle and calls for civil war and divides the country -- >> he didn't call for civil war. >> he encourages civil war. when you post a tweet or re-tweet somebody who is saying there may be a civil war if i'm removed from office, you're basically calling for a civil war. you're calling your supporters to arms. that is a threat. it is irresponsible and reckless. >> calls to arms -- >> that is a bad tweet. >> that is a reckless statement.
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no this is the president of the united states. we have to stop holding him to a lower standard. he should not be behaving this way at all. >> but the fact is if he were impeached and removed on anything like the current possible universe of facts, it would create a crisis of legitimacy at the height of american politics that will probably take years to heal. if you think that politics is too divisive now, just wait until he's impeached and removed. >> a crisis of legitimate -- >> one last point. you might say barack obama accommodated the other side the fact is he repeatedly said he didn't have the power to write immigration law on his own and when he couldn't get it passed by congress the way it is supposed to work, he imposed a -- >> for that reason -- that is not the reason -- we've never had any president obama or anybody trying to use the power and instruments of the government repeatedly against his political opponents. that is unprecedented. we're in unchartered testimony.
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>> we are beyond nixon. did he not call for a civil war but he trialed it by echoing an unhinged supporter. that is incredibly beneath the office of the president and part of the problem of having a president who doesn't understand or care about american history. we lost over 750,000 americans in civil war and to play politics with that legacy is beyond divisive. it is not a bad tweet. it is much worse than that. and it is indicative of how he approached his office. this is somebody who has blown through a lot of republican principles from free trade to executive orders. this is something who is demonizing the opposition on a level we haven't seen before and recently threatening to imprison critics in the context of this impeachment floating the idea of i wish it was back in the day of whistle-blower were considered spies and what we did to them. words have meaning and especially from the president of the united states. >> don't pretend that all of the divisiveness is just from the president of the united states. >> not all.
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>> for two years we've been told by the democrats and the media there was some dire conspiracy with russia -- with russia and it was completely false. >> that is not true. you're lying. >> of course it was. >> the intelligence community has -- >> that is a lie. we had a mueller report and you still could not admit there was no collusion. >> this is clearly -- [ multiple speakers ] >> did you read the rornt. >> the intelligence community found there was involvement. >> those are two separate things. you were alluding to in the beginning for that we need to fact check. >> the allegation is there is an a conspiracy with president trump. >> we're gaslighting -- he's planning on, this is what he wants, this kind of conversation. and i don't think you have to go as far as keith goes to say he called for a civil war and say this is a terrible thing so tay in and of itself and there are a couple of things that might stop you if you are the president from saying something like this. one, is if you served and you've seen the real effects of actual war. you might not say this. another is if you respect the
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office of the presidency and know it is bigger than just a man. and the final one is if you love your country and a patriot don't want to see it torn apart all of those things might stop you from saying something like this and i think it is fair to say trump is none of those things and he doesn't have a governor saying do not say this. as much as it helps your case and makes you feel good, do not say it. it is irresponsible. he doesn't have that. >> we have to leave it there. >> removing him from office is going to leave -- >> no, no. >> gentlemen and the lady to me left. we'll leave it there for just a moment. stay with us. there is more breaking news this hour. new reporting about a call between president trump and another world leader that reportedly sounds a whole lot like that call with ukraine. stay with us. i apply topical pain relievers first. salonpas lidocaine patch blocks pain receptors for effective, non-addictive relief. salonpas lidocaine. patch, roll-on or cream. hisamitsu.
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breaking news. "the new york times" reporting president trump, quote, pushed the australian prime minister in a recent phone call to help attorney general bill barr investigate the origins of the mueller probe. one u.s. official telling the "times" the white house restricted access to the transcript of that call. sources say president trump initiated the conversation for this sole purpose. i want to bring in now former federal prosecutor laura coates. so as we look at this in this reporting, the fact that the attorney general requested the president speak with mr. morrison, i'm just curious, your initial gut reaction to all of this? >> this is one heck of a pattern, erica. the idea of using the presidential office in some way to gain leverage with america's allies is like the president realized that diplomacy is the
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name of the game, not digging up dirt or using other nations to be investigative agencies on behalf of things that the president said has already been resolved, it is almost belying his notions earlier saying that he felt confident and exonerated and if he is still trying to build evidence against the origins of the report even after the mueller report has come out, after mueller has testified and after he's claimed exoneration, also that attorney general barr finds himself once again as somebody who the president believes is going to be an ally in trying to use the presidential power to get other nations to be involved in our investigation gives further credence to why it is so important to hear about the ukraine call and whether or not attorney general barr had some hand or notion that he was being used and exploited in this way. >> well, to that point and just picking up on two things you said there, so there has been a lot made about how the president views the attorney general. and who in the president's mind
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who the attorney general of the united states actually works for. that is one part of the equation. there is the current attorney general bill barr, we need to know more about what happened in terms of the call with ukraine and guy back to this again, that in this "new york times" reporting, quote, mr. barr requested that mr. trump speak to mr. morrison. that also calls into question how the attorney general views his own role. >> it does, indeed. and of course it goes back to where you had attorney general barr testifying and also giving statements when he had the four-page release and the press conference before the publicly released mueller report when he talked about the idea of the president of the united states being visually attacked or thought the president of the united states had some leg to stand on and he believed that the origins was up for scrutiny and further examination by his office. when everyone else is looking at the idea of not shooting the messenger or thinking about how it came to pass. but investigating the actual substance of it. he was more fixated on the origins of it and now that
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transpired and that makes it more believable of the "new york times" reporting that barr had a hand or was at least interested in continuing along that path. figuring out what were the origins. now this misses the forest through the trees, erica, if the fixation is on the underlying or the origins and not on the underlying claims that have been made, it is reminiscent of what is going on right now with the whistle-blower complaint. the shoot the messenger philosophy as opposed to investigating the underlying substantive allegations that are there. >> and that is what i would say a page from a playbook that a well-worn pagebook we've seen. senate democratsond judiciary committee are demanding that barr testify. do you see him complying with that request? >> well he very well should. he doesn't have a leg to stand on why he could not. the idea of testifying is to figure out, one, whether he did have some role in trying to allow rudy giuliani who you know is not an employee of the federal government to play a role in foreign diplomacy or other nefarious acts and he
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should testify for his own credibility if not more. >> laura coates, appreciate it. turns out we're learning it may not just be australia. new details just confirmed by cnn. that's next. od. full of flavor, color, full of- woo! full of good. so you can be too. try our new warm grain bowls today. panera. food as it should be. behr presents: tough as walls. that's some great paint. ♪ that's some great paint. behr ultra, ranked #1 in customer satisfaction with interior paints. great paint, new low price. starting at $29.98. exclusively at the home depot.
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we are back. we have more breaking news this hour. just in this hour, let me recap
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for you here. the president's personal lawyer rudy giuliani subpoenaed by house democrats and our poll reveals 47% support the impeachment and removal of president trump and now an official confirming to cnn the president pressed the australia prime minister in a recent phone call, pressing the prime minister to help the attorney general with his review of the origins of the russia probe. the story was first reported by the "new york times." but cnn's evan perez joins me now with more of his reporting. so you're learning more about this call and also about the apparently -- the prompting that was done by the attorney general to get the president to make that call. >> that is right, erica. and it goes beyond australia. the attorney general is closely managing this investigation of the origins of the mueller investigation. the 2016 election interference. so one of the things they're doing according to official we talked to just a little while ago is that they are asking the justice department -- justice department asking the president to intervene and ask other foreign countries to help with the investigation which is being
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managed by john durham, a prosecutor out of connecticut. so it goes beyond australia. there are other countries that provided intelligence that ended up being part of the mueller investigation that now the justice department and the trump administration say they need help of the foreign countries with. so stay tuned. we'll see if he has talked to other countries with the same thing in mind. >> stay tuned indeed. s.e. cupp, want to go to you first. what do you make of what we're seeing? is it enough to say there is a pattern. >> you didn't think this was the only or first time? right. i think we'll see a pattern. this is sort of an iceberg and we'll see that this happened probably more than once. i don't want to get ahead of the facts here. but it seemed to me the brazenness with which trump urged the new president of ukraine suggested he didn't think this was bad. he didn't think this was not something he was supposed to do and so i don't think anyone will
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be surprised if we find out that he asked this of other world leaders. this or similar. >> this is different in kind. the u.s. government asked foreign countries to cooperate with our duly constitution investigations all the time. the justice department is looking into how the bogus 2016 story started. i know everyone on the set maybe wants to move on from that and get on to ukraine but that is a legitimate interest and there is nothing wrong with the president of the united states asking a foreign government -- >> and there is nothing -- in your mind there is nothing wrong with the attorney general saying i want you to call the prime minister of australia and press him on this. >> nothing wrong at all. sir, if you could please cooperate with my attorney general. there is nothing wrong -- >> do you believe that is how it went down. i just need you to cooperate. >> on australia? we could always learn more. >> that was not a yes. >> if the attorney general is investigating something -- i want to find the facts in every instance. radical transparency works for me but there is nothing
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inappropriate with this. and all that ukraine call, it wouldn't have been anything inappropriate with that either. >> we are led that when the president are talking with leaders they are talking about vital security interests and abroad and what we could do to work on greemtss and so forth and this guy president trump is simply talking about what is in his best personal interest. probably promoting hotels to other world leaders as well. he has no sense of duty as president of the united states. he seems to only function as donald trump's personal em isary and now we have not only implicated mike pompeo and attorney general barr. and we have so many people in the administration who are involved in this, it is not just one person. this is a part of a pattern on the behavior of the trump administration officials and all of us should be concerned about that. >> john, i know you want to yup in. >> look, we could see clearly the president is motivated primarily by self interest and what is troubling we're seeing
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cabinet members being drawn into the orbit and do his bidding when they should be acting to contain the president's worst impulses and try to keep it directed in the faci-- in the national interest. and this of australia to reinvestigate the cooperation with the mueller report is to investigate the investigator's obsession that barr and the president and conservative media is focused on because they are trying to shift the narrative. and they are trying to say that the real conspiracy, the real collusion and we're the victims here. that is not a good use of -- >> they distressed and destroyed our pl ticks for two years. >> we have to get a break in. don't go anywhere. we have more on the breaking news ahead. president trump another phone call with a foreign leader pressing to help attorney general barr. stay with us. america's most loved pizza. hot and fresh, and right to your door. dough made from scratch, every day. sauce from our original recipe. and authentic toppings like crispy, old world pepperoni™.
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. happening now, breaking news. giuliani gets subpoenaed. the impeachment inquiry picks up more steam as house democrats subpoena rudy giuliani for documents pertaining to ukraine following a similar subpoena to mike pompeo. no good reason. president trump ratchets up his rhetoric on the impeachment accusing his chief investigator of treason. tonight the poll shows a growing number of americans favor impeaching the president. president trump's first supporter in the house of representatives chris collins agrees to resign from congress and plead guilty to insider
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