tv Smerconish CNN October 19, 2019 6:00am-7:01am PDT
♪ odds are he won't live to see tomorrow ♪ secret agent man ♪ secret agent man ♪ johnny rivers from 1966 "secret agent man" seemed appropriate. i'm michael smerconish in philadelphia. a political war of words erupted into a full-blown public feud. it's playing itself out between two democrat 2016 presidential candidate hillary clinton and congresswoman tulsi gabbard, 2020 candidate.
and neither mincing words. the battle started when clinton said this about gabbard during a podcast. >> i'm not making any predictions, but i think they've got their eye on somebody who's currently in the democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate. she's favorite of the russians. they have a bunch of sites and bots and other ways of supporting her so far, and that's assuming jill stein will give it up, which she might not because she's also a russian asset. yeah. she's a russian asset. i mean, totally. >> gabbard didn't hold back in slamming clinton calling her the queen of warmongers, and embodiment of corruption and personification of the rot that has sickened the democratic party for so long. clinton didn't name gabbard but when asked if she was, in fact, referring to the hawaii congresswoman her spokesman said, if the nesting doll fits -- he spokesman then said the initial grooming comment referred to republicans, not russia.
gabbard again denied she would launch a third-party run last night. my next guest is the other person, that secretary clinton mentioned in that interview calling her quote/unquote totally a russian asset. former green party presidential candidate dr. jill stein. dr. stein, i went to merriam-webster looked up asset to be sure. what it says. something useful if an effort to foil or defeat an enemy such as a piece of military equipment or a spy. are you a russian spy? >> no, i am not a russian spy. i think this is a completely unhinged conspiracy theory for which there is absolutely no basis in fact. not for myself and not for tulsi gabbard. i think it's really outrageous that hillary clinton is trying to promote this crazy idea. you know, you can't just slander people. you have to present some basis and fact.
tulsi has said that she is dedicated to running as green -- as a democrat and has been for her whole life. so that's pretty believable. i am not running for office. somehow hillary clinton didn't do her google research or she would know that i am not running. so it's preposterous to say, if i will give it up. you know, this is just a -- it's a wild and insulting theory and i think it speaks to hillary's need to try to explain perhaps to herself, you know, why her campaign was not successful. people really wanted change, and unfortunately believed donald trump's lies that he was going to bring change. we need a voting system in which people can actually vote for what they want and if people are concerned that independent candidates and campaigns are russian plots, there's a very simple solution. rank choice voting prevents any
evil foreign asset or anyone from splitting the vote. it let's you rank your choices. you never have to worry about your vote being "thrown away" or your -- your vote not counting, or spoiling the election. it doesn't happen under ranked choice voting. your first choice losing your vote is automatically reassigned to your second choice. that's the solution. it is not to silence political defense. the basis of our democracy is supposed to be political dialogue and competition. we shouldn't be in the business of, you know, throwing just terrible accusations and calling tyranny and traitor for people standing up for very important values that the american people badly need to hear about. you know, 70% in a recent "wall
street journal" poll, 70% of americans said they're not just fed up, they are fighting angry with a political establishment that's thrown them under the bus. we shouldn't be in the business of silencing diverse political choices. we need rank choice voting to make that okay and bring our values back into our vote. >> do you think that she's trying to draw a nefarious inference from that photograph we've an seen so many times of the dinner that you attended at which president putin was present? i think that general flynn was somebody else at the table. is that what's driving her as far as you know? >> let me just say there are many more pick hers of hillary clinton having intimate conversations with putin whispering in her ear and we actually know there was real money exchanged, for example, when her husband was paid something like half a million dollars to give a single speech to a kremlin-connected russian
bank associated with the sale of part of the u.s. our uranium apooved by hillary clinton. attending a conference i went to tell russia they needed to stop bombing syria and advocate for a cease-fire in the middle east, that's a good thing. i think we need more of that kind of dialogue. you have to talk with your adversaries as well as with your allies. >> do you think that her comments were designed to intimidate the emergence of any third-party candidate? whether it's dr. jill stein, whether the congresswoman gabbard or someone else who right now might be planning on getting into the race? >> absolutely. and i think, you know, she and the democratic party have been in that business for a long time. as i mentioned, rank choice voting solves this problem of, you know, worrying about, is your vote going to have
unintended consequences? the state of maine, the entire state, has adopted rank choice voting. it could be adopted in a heartbeat by legislatures across the country. it eliminates the hysteria about spoiled elections, and it really liberates people to be able to vote for what you want instead of against what you fear. we know from polls most people who voted for donald trump were not voting for him. they were voting against what they saw as his only opponent. we need that dhing our vochange voting system and could have it now. >> let me say this, put this on the screen. i think it's relevant. in the 2016 cycle, there it is. 42%, this is key, of eligible americans did not vote. i don't know why the focus from secretary clinton and others
instead of training their sights on you or gary johnson and bill welt isn't to say, wow, we need to get the 42% who didn't participate into the game, instead of concentrating on those who earnestly get into the arena. you get the final word. >> exactly. that's why we need more choices and more voices, and where rank choice voting has been passed as in the state of maine, in fact that's what's happening. more people are coming in to vote, because, you know, because they have a greater variety of candidates that can speak to them. their need for jobs, for health care as a human right, to abolish student debt, make higher education free and to cut this bloated and dangerous war budget that's actually getting us into more wars. it's not making us safer. all of this needs to be dated, more people will be able to do that when we have more candidates. thank you. >> thank you, dr. stein. >> thank you so much.
xwlashgs a >> what are your thoughts? tweet me. great comments in what dr. jill stein had to say. go to my facebook page i will read them throughout the program. hillary must know something we are not aware of or she wouldn't say something like that. donna, a glass half full analysis. glass half empty is to say there's a sore loser aspect to this to single out -- i listened to the entire david plouffe podcast. i recommend others do it as well. this was not an off the cuff statement. this was very deliberate. this is something she wanted to say. wait until you hear the survey question this week. go to smerconish.com and answer this right now. was it fair for hillary clinton to say that tulsi gabbard is the "favorite" of the russians and that jill stein is a russian asset. results at the end of the hour. up next, swing voters could be the key to whoever wins the white house. so how are they feeling in the midwest about the impeachment
push. also, is it cool and unusual punishment to the ticket or arrest the homeless when there are no available beds? that's currently the law of the land for two-thirds of the nation's homeless. no, just a sec. what would it look like if we listened more? could the right voice, the right set of words, bring us all just a little closer? get us to open up? even push us further? it could, if we took the time to listen. the most inspiring minds, the most compelling stories. download audible and listen for a change.
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so how is impeachment playing with swing voters? not so well according to data collected by my next guest. the co-founder and president of engages a firm specializing in issue messaging and together with focus point global in the middle of a 21-month research project focusing on swing voters in the upper midwest. subject, people who voted for obama and then trump. or romney and then clinton. they just concluded a focus group of swing voters in youngstown, ohio. keep in mind that trump hwon oho by 450 votes but lost ma hohohn county where this votinging to place. these are swing voters in a swing area. >> i feel it's a never-ending drama and shows these people are completely out of touch with everyday regular american lives. >> they need to concentrate on
the country not what he's doing. >> a big strike on the mueller case. trying to get another base hit and punch, in you will the president. >> drop it. beat trump in the ballot box. >> joining me now the director of the swing voter project. if i'm president trump and watching that, i'm liking what i see, rich. >> absolutely. to borrow a phrase from my dad, the members of congress are putting the wrong emphasis on the wrong syllable. putting their focus on the wrong thing. these are swing voters who think congress should be focusing on retirement security and health care and making that affordable. immigration and for them, the whole impeachment thing is a distraction. >> in other words, they don't think that congress can walk and chew gum at the same time? that if all of a sudden they're sucked in on impeachment nothing
else will get done. although, by the way, that assumes things would otherwise get one, and mitch mcconnell is here to say he's not letting that happen anyway. >> that's exactly right. there's a long-standing concern among voters i've interviewed over years that nothing happens in congress, and i think the impeachment rising to the level of full, national attention further emphasizes their preconceived notion congress definitely now can't get anything done. >> here's another stunner from your data. as we said, some of these folks voted for obama and then trump. and you have a hypothetical. and you say, okay. you can pick one of the two of those. what's the result? >> so we asked a hypothetical in every focus group and now done this over the course of eight months. eight separate focus groups and asked, if you could vote between obama and trump in next year's election, who would you choose? and over the course of the eight months we've done so far across the upper midwest roughly
two-thirds given that choice would choose president trump. but among the obama/trump voters interviewed in youngstown all eight would stick with president trump. >> it's unbelievable. because, you know, i would think in that area that blue collar area where manufacturing jobs have gone away, he promised he'd bring them back. that hasn't happened, and yet you're telling me they are still with the president? >> they are still with the president. they like his america first agenda. like what he stands for. the way he pushes back on other countries. these are people who the president has won over and they are still with him. >> so, rich, the takeaway thus far from every place you've gone so far seems to be, and this is a really good message for someone like me who lives and breaths on the acela corridor that i got to get out of my bubble. that which has so many of us pre-occupied between washington and boston is not what's ra
resonating in the rest of the country, at least among swing voters? >> that's the point. one reason we're doing the project to give life to the people in the midwest who are just numbers and polls. we want their voices heard. on our website swingvoterproject.com you can hear all their voices all up there to watch. if you sit and take the time to listen, you'll hear their concerns are real day-to-day concerns and impeachment is not one of those concerns. >> final question. how closely are they, nevertheless, monitoring this impeachment process? >> that's an interesting question. we asked about that during the focus group. had people write on a piece of paper what they knew about the impeachment. ranged from, he lied. or he upset many americans, up to a full explanation as to what has been alleged by democrats. a number of these folks get a lot of think news from local news, not cnn, not fox, not
msnbc, don't know that much and easy not to get agitated because they're not paying a lot of close attention. >> on to dubuque next. >> dubuque is next. yes. >> thank you, rich. you'll come back, i hope, after that, be honored to do it. up ahead, this republican co-chair of the house ukraine caucus was until recently an fbi agent, and he spent time in ukraine working anti-corruption. he's also from a swing district. so where does he stand on that notorious phone call and the push to impeachment? i will ask brian fitzpatrick. and six homeless residents of boise, idaho sued the city over its anti-camping because it criminalized homelessness and they won. i will talk to the mayor who wants to break up these encampments. is that net carbs or total?
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the mayor of boise, idaho is formally petitions the supreme court to take up a controversial issue whether cities can ticket or arrest homeless people for sleeping or camping on public property. this case all started ten years ago when six homeless residents in that city sued over its anti-camping policy alleging it had criminalized homelessness and it made its way tu the court system finally landing in the
ninth circuit court of appeals last year which ruled "a municipality cannot criminalize such behavior consistently with a eighth amendment when no sleeping is sflabl any shelter." they applies to nine western states which hold almost two-thirds of the country's homeless population including cities struggling with homelessness. los angeles, portland, san francisco, among them. local governments across the west including both the city and county of los angeles have filed court documents supporting boise's bid. the supreme court will announce whether it will take the case in the coming weeks. the leader of the city where this entire case began, boise mayor dave beater is joining me now. mr. mayor what is it that you would like to do that you are precluded from doing because of this ruling? >> well, michael, it's our status quo. we have to be able to cite people that are camping so that we don't have camps forming that
are unsafe, unsanitary. that's really the situation we have now. we use it very rarely. in this year only used it four times. allowed to cite while the case is pending's simply can't have the camps form. we issue warnings first several times. there has to be space in a shelter. our officers will call a shelter first. is there space? if there is they can cite. if there isn't, they can't. we have to have that tool to keep the camps from forming. this is not an academic exercise. we had a camp form about five years ago, about 120 people. it was unsafe. we actually had a homicide in the camp. we know what happens if we aren't allowed to do this. we simply want to maintain the status quo which is working quite well. while we go to work on building
more housing and more services for the homeless. >> irwin schemerri ischemerinsk. can't make it a crime for being a homeless person. you respond how to him? >> not a crime to be a homeless person. it's a crime to take public property for private use. that's all we're saying. we have to have the ability to keep unsafe conditions from forming. it's really hurting the people we want to help. it's a tool that local governments need. it's working quite well in the city of boise. we use it sparingly. you know, that's not -- we're the ground level form of government. the federal government isn't doing near enough. states aren't doing near enough. it's a societal issue, but we simply have to have this tool to be able to move things along, to keep these conditions from
forming. once they're formed, people would say only cite after there's something else that happens. after you have a homicide? after you have these terribly unsafe conditions? it doesn't work that way. appreciate the professor, but it's just not at practical solution to what we see. >> mayor, a month or so ago i toured skid row in los angeles. about ten days ago i saw the homeless conditionseste interes you're sort of the laboratory. 1,000 to 2,000 homeless. l.a. i think has 36,000. yet the fate of their efforts rests on the outcome of your case. have i stated that correctly? because this ninth circuit ruling stands, unless you can get it overturned in the supreme court? in other words, there's a lot at state in your case. >> oh, there is. we understand that. but the decision is unworkable.
what they've said is, if anyone in your city is homeless anywhere, you can't enforce the ordinance against any one. one of the dissenters said it's absolutely unworkable. you have to go street by street, alley by alley, doorway by do doorway and see if anyone is homeless to cite it at all. it's absolutely unworkable. even if you had all those resources if you're wrong, if you miss by any amount, you're subject to a lawsuit under this ruling. it's absolutely unworkable for us or anyone else, but we have a good set of facts. we don't have -- we are problem that's manageable. in fact, we're going to work on solutions that do work. housing first. get people in housing and bring services to them. but unless we can keep these camps from forming, we can't be successful on positive solutions that we really have some momentum on here in boise and other cities. >> and you should learn -- you
should learn within the next few weeks whether the supreme court will take up the boise case. mayor bieter, thank you so much for being here. >> thanks for having me. i want to remind people to answer the survey question at smerconish.com today. i'm interested end of the hour to see how this plays out. was it fair for hillary clinton to say that tulsi gabbard is a quote/unquote favorite of the russians and that my guest jill stein is a russian quote/unquote asset. go vote at the website. still to come, he's the only member of congress who was once an fbi agent, and he spent time in ukraine working anti-corruption. pennsylvania republican brian fitzpatrick now co-chair of the house ukraine caucus on what he thinks about the impeachment push. plus, california just passed a groundbreaking new law pushing back start times for middle schools and high schools. will this help students focus, and will the rest of america follow? biopharmaceutical researchers.
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house ukraine caucus. i spoke with congressman fitzpatrick earlier. congressman, what did you think of mick mulvaney's comments this week about a quid pro quo? >> my position on this, michael, from day one has been given the seriousness of this whole impeachment inquiry that really needs to start off with a law enforcement investigation. it's historical in precedent and makes a lot of sense. the fbi for example, no leaks, outside of politics. got a report here in congress and could rely on the facts. that's got to happen here as well. these are serious allegations. allegations we need to look into but allegation as that need to be investigated by law enforcement and not bipartisan politicians. >> so let me ask you this, because it seems to me that the facts are, the evidence is telling the same story. i'll put this in the most negative light for the president. it's a hypothetical, i guess.
if the president extorted the leader of foreign country to gin up evidence against a political opponent, does that rise to the level of an impeachable offense? >> you used the worse extortion. that's a crime bp ginning up evidence is manufacturing evidence that's obstruction. yes, those are two crimes. in law enforcement found evidence of those crimes occurred yes impeachment would be warranted. absolutely. >> how long were you in ukraine and what was your job while there? >> there between three and four months in the spring and summer of 2015. one of many details i embarked upon. this one was with the international corruption unit. based out of fbi headquarters. mainly in a training capacity. workedsy sbu, security you service of ukraine, prosecutor general's office and the national anti-corruption bureau. right after the revolution when yanukovych ran out of the country petro poroshenko came in
and they desired to establish something called the national anti-corruption bureau to weed out high-level corruption with ukraine. people like myself was there to train investigators and prosecutors on what we did in the fbi as far as best practices, how to recruit sources, physical and electronic surveillance conducting interviews and the like. >> congressman, americans have heard a lot about someone named victor shogun. while you were there did you form an opinions prosecutor general viktor shokin? >> we did. granted only there between three and four months but the general sense and consensus of the fbi, of our foreign partners, mainly the brits, mi-5 and mi-6 the ones we worked with at the u.s. state department apparatus that the prosecutor's office in general and mr. showingen in particulin -- shokin in particular was obstructing american and british
efforts to work in partnership with those offices. i didn't deal with mr. shokin directly but i did deal with some of his underlings as part of the training process. it was our sense generally speaking he was not helpful at all to the u.s. and our international partners efforts to weed out systemic corruption in ukraine. >> i ask that question, because in the july 25 phone call the president famously said that shokin was treated badly and was a very fair person. it doesn't sound like that comports with your assessment while there? >> yes. you'd have to ask what he's basing his assessment on. my assessment having been there and worked with those entities. again it wasn't just my assessment but the general understanding and consensus view over there that he was not cooperative at all with what we were trying to accomplish in weeding out corruption. >> and final question. you're in an awkward position, i imagine. former fbi agent. you are a republican. it's a republican president. you're in a swing district.
give me some idea as to how you're approaching your job. >> not awkward at all michael. our job as fbi. follow the facts wherever they lead and report those with integrity. i believe in non-partisan, independent law enforcement investigations they are the ones that can find the facts, get to the truth. the chairman and ranking member of the intelligence committee are not able to do that. they're operating in a political circus with partisan motivations, and that's not how you find the facts. you find the facts by kicking it just like we did with bob mueller and why i supported that investigation. take it outside the realm of politics. let them do their thing. they have surveillance ability, subpoena power, and investigative acts abilities we have here and they're independent. not partisan. if taking this seriously and michael second only to declares
war this is the second most significant thing we can do in congress. considering impeachment in a president and overturning results of an election and ought to take a serious and not approach it like a budget vote. a very, very serious thing we're engaging upon. look on evan stance it's happened in the past most recently bill clinton followed a law enmothers finance investigation, evidence developed and found and there was a vote before the we even took a step down this path. a vote that had 31 democrats vote in favor of that inquiry. bipartisan approach based on a law enforcement investigation is not what we have here and that's my person. it's not awkward at all. i stand by law enforcement and their ability to do this work far better than we can. >> thank you, congressman. >> anytime, michael. thank you. i like it'sonce an fbi agent always an fbi agent. check in on tweets and facebook comments. from twitter. smerconish still auditioning for a job at the white house? it's subliminally done every
week. he pretends he's in the middle. not. hey, johnny woods wo, let's rev here. so a professional does focus groups over 21 months of swing voters. goes to mahoning county in ohio where you would think because of the economic despair and loss of manufacturing jobs that haven't come back that you would see cracks in the trump armor, and yet among swing voters, when asked a hypothetical, people who voted for obama and then trump. hey, you have have one or the other, which do you want? eight out of eight say trump because you don't like the result of the focus group, then i'm in the tank for bringing it to your attention? no. i'm data driven. this is all about evidentiary thinking but thank you for watching. i remind you to answer the survey question @smerconish.com. was it fair for hillary clinton to stay tulsi gabbard is the
quote/unquote favorite of the russians and jill stein is a russian quote/unquote asset? results end of the hour. still to come, california often ahead of the nation when it comes to laws like decrepe nallizing pot, limiting plastic straws. will it's latest experiment mandating later school start times change the way that american students learn? i'm going to speak to a sleep expert. look, this isn't my first rodeo... and let me tell you something, i wouldn't be here if i thought reverse mortgages took advantage of any american senior, or worse, that it was some way to take your home. it's just a loan designed for older homeowners, and, it's helped over a million americans.
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california has always been the launch pad for big, cultural contributions to the nation. think hula whoops, frisbees and skate bortz and mcdonald's, the jacuzzi to name a few. and sneeringing a the trends, many pioneering laws have a way of coming across the country. no-fault divorce, limiting use of plastic straws. i guess it could also come true about its latest innovation giving students more sleep to improve their education. governor gavin newsom just signed a law making the state first in the nation to mandate public middle schools can start
no earlier than 8:00 a.m. and high schools no earlier than 8:30. it will be phased in over the next three years's will it work? joining me now, wendy troxel, a sleep expert and senior behavioral scientist for the rand corporation and a licensed clinical psychologist. doctor, i enjoyed your ted talk. well done. in your ted talk you answer a lot of questions on my mind. >> thank you. >> like this one. well, won't they just stay up later and why don't they get to bed sooner? >> great question, and it's a common misperception that if schools starts later teens will stay up later. the good news, we have data to disprove that. actually, when schools start later bedtimes stay roughly the same but wake-up times are later resulting in more sleep. let's put them to bed. all about good parenting. the problem is that teenagers experience a biologically driven
phase delay during the teenage years which makes it exceedingly difficult for them to fall asleep early and wake up early. so asking a teenager to fall asleep at 9:00 p.m. is kind of like an unwinnable battle, because it's going against their biology. >> right. this was somethingals i learned from you. this has to do with the melatonin release? i as an adult have a tendency, having raised four, look at them and say i can get up early. why can't they get up early? there's a scientific explanation for that. >> there absolutely is. during, around the time of puberty teenagers experience this delay largely driven by about a two-hour release in the form of melatonin which is the hormone's darkness. melatonin signals our body it's time for sleep. so if melatonin is being released in teenagers not until around 11:00 p.m. it's simply impossible for most teenagers to
fall asleep early enough to get the recommended amount of sleep if they're having to wake up at 6:00 amg a.m. >> i worry about some of the practical impact of this. parents who might have their own schedule disrupted by how they get to school change especially where you are in california. in traffic patterns. i mean, there are some down sides, but it still seems like it's in the best interests of our kids. >> absolutely. there are logistical challenges and i don't try to minimize them. things you mentioned like traffic, transportation. child care issues. e extracontradictler activities and problems to be solved. it goes into effect in 2022. the governor is allowing school districts time to figure how to address these challenges, and what i can also say is that these are problems worth being
solved, because the situation is dire among teenagers. we do have an epidemic of teenage sleep deprivation and so this is one policy to address that epidemic. >> and a final point. a minimum of eight. that's what they should be getting. a minimum of eight hours. >> minimum. >> in those formative years you're describing? >> that's correct. the recommendation is between eight to ten hours optimally around nine to nine and a quarter hours sleep for teenagers. >> dr. troxel, thanks so much. >> thank you. still to come, your best and worst tweets and facebook comments, and the final results of the survey question. vote @smerconish.com. was it fair for hillary clinton to say tulsi gabbard is the quote/unquote favorite of the russians and that jill stein is a russian "asset"?
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governot just the powerful and well-connected. that's the american promise. but big corporations and special interests are in control. nothing's happening for real people. our democracy has been purchased. the candidates running for president have great ideas. but we can't get anything done unless we make our democracy serve the people again. i'm tom steyer. i approve this message. i'm running for president because it's time our democracy works for people.
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i have no idea how this one is going to turn out. these are the results of the survey question at smerconish.com. was it fair for hillary clinton to say that tulsi gabbard is the favorite of the russians and that jill stein is a russian asset? survey says -- 58% say no, it was not fair. 42% say yes, it was.
9,519 having voted. nearly scientific. by the way, 58-42. 42, same percentage of eligible americans who didn't vote in the 2016 cycle. just saying. katherine, what do we have from social media this hour? smerconish, thank you. jill stein just proved that she is a russian asset. come on, phil. what a cheap shot. you don't have to be for jill stein. i didn't vote for jill stein. but can you not respect the fact that she's willing as t.r. said to get into the arena while the rest of us are sitting on our cans? no, i respect that. if you're going to make that charge about her or in the case of congresswoman gabbard who wore the uniform for her country, you better bring the goods. that's not a bar conversation that hillary had. oh, my god, she's an asset. pour me another round. no, it was said with some deliberation and intention.
i know, i listened to the podcast. give me another one if we have time. hrc exactly the embodiment of all that is wrong with established politics. she called a u.s. army officer a traitor. where is the outrage? hillary only proves that she can't come to grips that at best, she's a marginally better person than trump. she won the popular vote. she's had a long and distinguished career. i have great respect for secretary clinton. i just thought that was a cheap shot and it kind of demeans her legacy. you should have spent more time in wisconsin. give me another one if i have time. time will tell. i'll go a step further and call it the third-party ticket will be gabbard/yang. adele, i hope there's a third-party candidacy. i don't know if it's more to the left or more to the right. i want more choice. isn't one thing clear, no matter -- no matter whether you're for or against the president, for or against his opponents, we don't have enough
choice. those of us who get shut out in the primaries and have to live with ideologues in the general, we deserve representation too. so bring on a third-party candidacy. folks, join me for my american life and columns tour. i'll be in norman, oklahoma, on sunday, november 3rd, erie, pennsylvania, on november 12 and then presidents day, st. louis, missouri, cannot wait. thank you so much for watching. i'll see you here next week. ♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win.
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