tv Lou Dobbs Tonight CNN August 10, 2009 7:32pm-8:00pm EDT
the regulated private system does have many benefits and does move away from the current employer based health care model. senator ron widen of oregon and republican robert bennett of utah proposed a health care plan that does incorporate many of the features of the dutch system. lou? >> thank you, kitty. one of the things we're seeing here, we have gone through six nations, looking at the comparisons, we're going to continue that, probably we'll look at 25 systems before this is concluded, this series of special reports. one of the things that must be fascinating to folks is to see that there are nations, i think most americans think they have the highest life expectancy in the world. i think most americans, and i'm saying this without any knowledge of any polling on it, i think they also believe that ours is the best and is not as far askewed in terms of the cost as it obviously is right now.
>> yes. when you do the cost comparisons it interesting to see. it is enlightening to see what works and what doesn't. you have test models out there globally, you can really actually look. >> and oddly must have, the national media not focusing upon them and oddly enough neither the democrats nor the republicans focusing on them or trying to speak in the public debate about the merits and the deficiencies of each. we have the experience of all of these countries to draw upon, and our legislators and this administration and the administrations before it seemed absolutely intent on ignoring that. >> a lot of lessons to be learned. a lot of information out there and it should be used. >> we're going to continue to shed light on all of this and look forward to your doing so tomorrow evening. thank you very much. kitty pilgrim. tonight we're looking at the personal income tax rates in those countries with those health care systems, public health care systems that we have examined. five of those six countries have a higher income tax rate than we have in this country. the maximum personal income tax
rate in the united states currently is 35%. canada's tax rate is actually below ours, 29%. in france, the rate is 40%. the united kingdom tax rate reaching a maximum of 40%. the highest tax rate is in germany, is in germany, is 45%. and the netherlands income tax rate is 52%. and in den mamark, the tax rate there, 59%. we'll continue our look at health care systems of other country, public health care systems. tomorrow we examine the state of health care in switzerland. the health care debate in this country enflaming passions of both sides, of course. that divide can clearly be seen at these town hall meetings all across the country. each side claiming the outrage of the other is manufactured. democratic leaders in congress and the white house in fact trying to marginalize protesters and the democratic leadership in congress actually calling those protesters un-american. that's a subject of our face-off
debate tonight. joining me now, richard kur, national campaign manager of health care for america now. good to have you with us. >> great to be here. >> -- perkins, good to have you with us. >> good evening, lou. >> let's begin if we may, by just looking at -- tony, let me begin with you. you posted a series of congressional town hall meetings on your website, you provided some questions for people to ask. is that a fair charge to say that that's manufactured, that's organized from the top down? >> i wish we could manufacture the type of energy that is being seen out there across america. i can't even get my air conditioner set at the right temperature. this is organic. americans are -- they had enough. they're frustrated with the spending. and now they're talking about government taking over health care. what we're simply doing is giving some direction, letting people know where the meetings are, and the questions they ask. we read the legislation.
we give them the key points. and we let them do the rest. and quite frankly, lou, they're doing a great job of it. >> do you actual organizer, coordinators of any kind in that's town hall meetings? >> no. we are -- we're putting the information out there across the country in our network of supporters, letting them know where the meetings are, receipting them know where their congressmen and senators stand. but we don't have, unlike others in this debate on the other side, we don't have paid people on the ground, busing people in. >> your organization sent out a memo that instruct your supporters, quote, when the other side gets too loud and if we could, i would like to see this on a full screen, please, when the other side gets too loud, we should shut them down with chants that counter their message like health care can't wait and health care delayed is health care denied. and threat people to chant at key points when the other side gets most disruptive. with instructions like that, aren't you behaving precisely in the manner that speaker pelosi
and majority leader hoyer called un-american? >> just the opposite. we just said, what you read, when the other side gets disruptive. we would like civil meetings, meetings in which there is no violence. we're seeing the other side hanging congressmen in effigy, drawing devil horns on a congressman, bringing swastikas and frankly -- >> when you mention the swastika, that's inflammatory and understandably you want to do that. would you like to describe the swastikas that have been present at one of those meetings, just out of curiosity? >> what a swastika sign looks like. >> a pure swastika, wasn't anything else associated with it? >> i'm not sure exactly what it looked like, but those are the kind of things we saw and we're still seeing people basically inciting being violence. we don't want that. we want civil discourse. that's what we're looking for. that's an american discussion to have real town meeting, real discussion, to listen, not of lies, not of distortion. the other side is disrupting and
being violent, and threatening people, we need to make it clear that our voice is heard. >> that's just not true. while there may be some individuals and we would -- we are very clear, lou, in the correspondence we have with people that we should be respectful of those in office and we do want to have a dialogue. what we have suggested is return it back to the issue of the legislation. the black and white legislation. that's what has people so upset, lou. it is not -- the other side wants to talk about health care now. okay, let's talk about health care now. let's talk about what's in hr-3 200. let's talk about the concerns people have about denying them care, delaying that care. let's talk about taxpayer funded abortion. let's talk about the government taking over health care. that's what's in the bill. that's why so many democratic congressmen are not having town hall meetings. they're afraid to face their constituents. >> that's exactly what i mean, lie and distortions about the
bill. it is not government takeover of health care, it is stopping insurance companies from delaying care and denying care. the report you had on, lou, about the netherlands where the government basically said or the dutch about regulating insurance companies so they have rules, they have to provide decent benefits so they can't deny and delay, that's what we're talking about. >> with the tax rate of 52%. >> we have a country in which every 30 seconds someone goes bankrupt from health care in which health care premiums are rising three times as fast as wages, in which we can't afford the health care insurance, the health insurance companies $690 million of salaries to their ceos. we have to fix that and provide good health care to this country. >> you're absolutely right. and we agree that health care should be accessible and afford o able to every american. we're saying that government takeover of health care is not the solution. and that's why americans are
responding the way they r they don't want the health care with the empathy of the irs or the efficiency of fema. >> there is no government takeover of anything of this legislation. >> that's exactly what it is. the government, through its exchanges, defines what the benefits are, they will control what benefits people have. >> and that's the point to be sure that people actually have good benefits. >> people don't want the government to -- >> they actually do -- >> i have to say thank you very much for being with us, richard and thank you tony. gentlemen, we appreciate it. up next, another broken promise. pre president obama using a bush era tactic, he said he wouldn't. >> this is a coordinated campaign by the republican party and the insurance industry. >> in spite of the loud, shrill voices trying to interrupt counsel hall meetings -- >> this is clearly being orchestrated and these folks
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contributor errol lewis. great to have you all here. the health care debacle, house speaker pelosi, majority leader hoyer wrote in an op-ed today says drowning out opposing views is simply un-american. what do you think? un-american, those are words that -- i mean, that's an expression we don't often hear. >> it is like red baiting, another way to stifle some kind of dissent. are there people being paid to create disturbances, sure. are there people, average americans creating their own disturbs, absolutely. are people concerned, you bet. but to label the entire movement opposed to this kind of health care or we don't know what it is as being construed by others is not appropriate nor right. >> this is the mirror image of the demonization that was going on and has been going on throughout the campaign last year. when you try to write your opponent out of the mainstream, make them beyond the pale and say that they're not just wrong,
but they're wrong headed, that they're not part of the debate, they shouldn't be part of the debate, pelosi, by sort of stooping to that tactic, i think, really sort of loses whatever high ground they might have had. some of the disruptions that really were appalling, i think, are going to start to look like six of one, half a dozen of the other. >> rich? >> i don't understand why the white house and now the democrats in the house have taken this tack. as a political hack, i just don't understand it. they're just -- they keep raising the level of the gas flame under this thing and that's right, they just got to keep making it hotter and hotter. i don't understand it. i thought that actually what dingell did yesterday for the most part was the right way to handle it. he let everybody blow off steam, he's 83 years old, he's heard it all, seen it all and let everybody have their say and then he talked about what he wanted to talk about and off they went. i think that's the right approach. i don't understand why the white
house and at least the house has decided that they want to go to war with frankly -- these are protesters protesting, you know, these are the folks there in the '60s, now in the '60s, now all in our 60s. >> as you say, rich, we encounter congressman hoyer, congressman pelosi, president obama, robert gibbs, his spokesperson, here is senator claire mccaskill out there, this woman is encouraging these town hall meetings, taking on all comers and any part of the state of missouri, i think that's exemplary, what is the big deal here? >> i have to agree with you, lou. democracy is an endless meeting when you discussion and some heat and noise. sometimes you have democracy. when you have hidden gathers and people don't have discussions, that's not democracy. what that is is congratulating
politicians for doing things that they may not, should not and probably might not have done had someone been looking, different issue. >> an entirely different take, errol, this president has had demanded as of last friday the house and the senate pass something that is unshaped, unmarked, and unscored. and wanted that to be policy for six of the nation's of the economy, for all of americans, and against that, we also have now the leadership and the house saying you're un-american to oppose it. my god what's going on? >> the un-american part was, you know, to shout people down, to stop the conversation is un-american which i would agree with. i think the president is doing what he -- >> un-american? >> absolutely. to shut down a debate, that's just wrong. it is just wrong. but what the president -- >> you agree with what pelosi and hoyer said? >> the words in the article were to shut down debate, to use
those kind of disruptive tactics to try and stop the debate from going forward is wrong. it is just wrong. you call it un-american, you call it whatever you want. it needs to be denounced you can't have people tarred and feathered in effigy outside of their office. that's not the way to conduct this debate. you can't have union guys beating up somebody in the parking lot at a town hall meeting. it just isn't going to fly. >> is that un-american? >> yeah. wrong. un-american, absolutely. >> we're going to be back -- >> unacceptable. >> we're going to be back with a number of questions for our panel and get their viewpoints. first, brooke baldwin with an update on other stories tonight. >> divers have found the wreckage of that plane involved in a midair collision over the hudson river. and they say one of the two missing bodies is inside. the plane collided with a sight-seeing helicopter on saturday afternoon, killing nine people. in hollywood, florida, beachgoers tried to rescue a mother whale and her calf.
they became beached. crowds of people jumped in to push the whales into deeper water but the mother whale did die and the calf had to be euthanized because it was too tongue to survi young to live on its own. storm triggered mud slides and dangerous flooding. heavy rainfall washed out bridges and roads, limiting rescue efforts in some of the areas. helicopters rescued to manage 100 villagers. hundreds more may be missing. those are the stories we're staying on top of. >> thank you very much, brooke. coming up, much more with our panel and secretary of state clinton making it very clear who's in charge at the state department. >> you want me to tell you what my husband thinks? my husband is not the secretary of state. i am. >> we'll have much more on what sparked the secretary's response here next.
we're back with our panel. i'd like, if i may, this is congressman david scott responding to a doctor that just asked him about health care at one of his constituent meetings. >> not a single one of you had the decency to call my office and set up for a meeting. you want a meeting with me on health care? i'll give it to you. >> my question is -- >> that's congressman scott yelling at the doctor there who happens to be a constituent who he mistaked for an astroturf manipulator operative. was he being un-american? >> it was a perfectly good
speech by the congressman of outrage. it was wasted on somebody it didn't apply to. i want to be fair to the congressman, this was not a meeting about health care. he felt like people were popping up and trying to take him off the topic. >> i just asked you. you just said it was un-american to do that. he just did it. shut him down. it was shutting down the -- >> if you play more of it -- >> could this be a little bit of a touchy game, doesn't it? this un-american stuff. >> it's not a phrase i would use. i would use wrong. that was at the end of the meeting. congressman had covered everything he wanted to cover. that was at the end of the meeting. so it wasn't hijacking anything in the middle. >> hank, let's wrap it up with the president and guadalajara, mexico, saying this nation in the 21st century is not defined by its borders but we're not going to be doing health -- we're not going to be doing so-called comprehensive immigration reform.
>> tell that to the family of the border patrol agent killed on those borders. drug trafficking increasing. drug gangs in action. get ready to hit the mexican border. we could have the same kind of problems again. >> thank you very much. rich, thank you. we appreciate it. >> nice to be with you. secretary of state clinton today responding sharply to a mistranslated question as it turns out at a meeting in congo. a translator asked what her husband, bill clinton thought about communist china's offer of aid to congo. >> you want to tell me to tell you what my husband thinks? my husband is not the secretary of state, i am. you ask my opinion, i will till you my opinion. i'm not going to be channeling my husband. >> the questioner m eer meant t or the translator mistranslated the question to mean president
obama as the reaction to the chinese offer rather than president clinton. it was straightened out by the secretary as you witnessed. campbell brown. >> we're going to have the story of those 47 passengers who were stuck overnight on a parked airline. what was the airline thinking? whatever happened to passengers' rights here? we're going to speak to one of the people trapped on the plane. more on the town hall meetings turning into showdowns over the president's health care plan. a health care fact check for you tonight. we all know working out is good for you, right? does it actually help you lose weight? is that a myth? we're going to have answers on that front as well. >> i'll be focused intently. campbell, thanks. campbell brown. (music plays)
time for some of your thoughts. patricia in nevada said let's make a deal. americans will consider the possibility of health care reform as soon as our government officials prove they can successfully run medicare and social security. charlie in florida said, lou, i've already e-mailed and called all of my representatives in washington. i am shocked that people are not out on the streets protesting this health disaster bill. sandra in massachusetts -- if we live in one of the richest countries in the world, how is it that we the people can't afford to live here? and casey in texas, hi, lou. thanks for looking out for the fair, honest hard working americans. we try. we love hearing from you. send us your thoughts to lou dobbs tonight.com. each of you whose e-mail is read