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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  April 21, 2011 10:00pm-12:00am EDT

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out there who can do it. i know that. >> carol, it's been a delight. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> really enjoyed it. >> i did, too. >> good luck with your tour. >> thank you. >> a fascinating hour with one of hollywood greats. here's "ac 360." piers, thank you. we're keeping them honest tonight on the myth that will not die. the bogus belief that president obama was born elsewhere. in fact, far from cooling, there's new polling that shoes birther fever has now infected an awful lot of potential voters. and donald trump, who says he really, really doesn't want to talk about it anymore, well, he's talking about it some more. >> i think there's a real question as to whether or not, and frankly 75% of the people in the republican party are really doubting whether or not -- they have very big doubts. so, you know, there are a lot of people. i don't know why he doesn't just show his birth certificate.
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i would much rather run man to man. i don't know why he doesn't just show it. >> donald trump on "american morning." he also called in to fox. you might have seen it this morning. he writes -- >> he says, we in the press are to claim because we keep asking him about it. leave aside for the moment that it's our job to challenge public figures on the facts. just think about how easy it is for someone who really wants to change the subject and move on. to change the subject and move on. then ask yourself, does donald trump really sound like that person? >> nobody from those early years -- >> that's not true. >> i want him to show his birth certificate. there's something on that he doesn't like. three weeks when i started, i
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thought he was probably born in this country. now i have a much bigger doubt. why doesn't he show his birth certificate. why has he spent over $2 million to keep this quiet? barack obama should give his birth certificate. not a certificate of live birth, which is nothing. which is absolutely nothing. every day that goes by, i think so, i think less and less that he was born in the united states. >> donald trump, who just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. just a reminder of the facts here. classmates from those supposedly mysterious early years say they do in fact remember him. and here's the certificate of live birth, he showed it in 2008. birthers have said it's not the same. but as far as hawaii and a lot of other states are concerned, it is. here's the official stamp, and there on the left is the raised
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seal. in addition, both honolulu papers ran birth announcements at the time. the information provided by state health authorities. yet that's apparently not enough for mr. trump, who says he's got private investigators on the case. but is being coy about what, if anything, they're actually finding. it's not enough for a lot of potential voters. in a new poll, only 33% of republicans, just 1 in 3, say they believe president obama was born here. 45% say flat out no. another 22% aren't exactly sure. which is not to say every leading republican or conservative agrees. many are either backing away from birtherism, or never bought into it in the first place. such as michele bachmann, john mccain, karl rove, eric cantor, mitt romney, tim pawlenty, even
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ann coulter. >> obama has produced his birth certificate. there were announcements that ran in two contemporaneous hawaiian newspapers at the time. the head of the hawaiian medical association has seen the long form. the state department accepts the short form or the birth certificate. >> yet some politicians continue to flirt with the birther theme, especially in the state legislators. arizona governor jan brewer vetoed a birther bill. in louisiana, where republican governor bobby jindal says if it passes, he will sign it. i spoke with republican state senator a.g. crow, earlier tonight. senator, thanks for coming on the program to talk about this.
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why would you say we need this bill and why now? >> because my constituents, first offer, are asking for it. around the united states, people are wondering will this issue ever go away? it's very time consuming and we're going to have to address this issue during our state legislative process this next session, simply because the issue won't go away. and perhaps if we pass some legislation here in louisiana, and perhaps in other states, this issue will come to a forefront. it will be addressed and then it will be behind us so we can get on about the business of the country. >> i want to ask you do you believe that president obama is a natural born citizen of the united states? >> i have no comment on that. that's not what this is about as far as i'm concerned. what this is about basically is protecting the constitution of the united states of america. >> well, certainly though, the issue has focused quite a bit on president obama. >> yes, it has. i mean, obviously that's the
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reason the issue is out there and why we have to take time during our legislative processes throughout the country to address those, at least for those states that choose to do so. >> i should point out that a copy of his birth certificate has been released. i have a copy of one right here. it has a seal on it. it's a certification of live birth. there's a certificate number on it. why isn't that good enough for you? >> it's not that it's good enough for me, i think it's the american public. i'm not going all around the country saying that this is an issue, this happens to be people calling me and telling me, constituents asking me to -- as well as representatives in shreveport to look at legislation -- >> but you are the one put thing legislation forward. >> i'm a co-author of the bill, along with another representative. so yes, i'm responding to my
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constituents. >> i just want to point out the hawaiian state health official who personally reviewed barack obama's birth certificate announced it is real. the governor said this is not an issue. so do you think that this president could prove that he's a natural born citizen using the evidence that you're putting forward in this legislation? >> again, my emphasis and our emphasis here in the next legislative session here in louisiana is simply to clarify what our constitution says. the name "obama" is not listed anywhere in the legislation. that's not our concern. our concern is making it easy for people throughout this country and our state certainly to understand exactly what the qualifications are, because if there was no confusion, this wouldn't be an issue and i wouldn't be here tonight. >> but if you had the republican governor of another state saying there's no basis for these questions, we're talking about arizona, isn't it your job to tell your constituents their
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concerns are unfounded? isn't that what true leadership is about? >> well, i think what true leadership is all about is finding out what the truth is. >> what do you say to your constituents when they bring this up to you? >> well, on any issue, whether this issue or others, we have a process that we go through that involves researching. it involves, you know, questioning and looking at current law and so on. and basically go forward from there, depending on what we find in our research. >> so do you think that your bill will become law? do you think that president obama will qualify for your state's presidential ballot next year? >> well, you keep bringing, you know, obama and the bill together and our emphasis again, even though it derives from the issue that's out there around the country and around the state, because there was a question about his eligibility, but our bill again is focused around making it much easier for people in this state and
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louisiana to understand what the constitution says relative to this issue. >> yes, i keep bringing up the president because that's what your constituents are talking about with you, and what you are responding to. so that's why i'm asking, do you think that he would qualify on the presidential ballot next year in your state? >> well, if he meets the qualifications of what we pass in the state legislature, certainly he would qualify. >> do you believe he has those documents? >> i can't answer that. you need to ask him. >> all right, senator, we will leave it there. thank you. >> thank you. a lot more to talk about, including the constitutionality of birther bills and, of course, donald trump, namely the damage some republican insiders believe he's doing to the gop. joining us now, jeffrey toobin and gloria borger. good to see you both. jeff, let me start with you. you heard the state senator from louisiana there. what do you make of these state
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birther bills? legally, they're sort of unclear, right? some people think they're unconstitutional. others aren't sure. >> well, they're moronic. let's start with that. whether they're constitutional or not is an interesting question. the supreme court and even federal appeals courts have not dealt with the question, because it's clear that states can say you need 500 signatures to get on the ballot. they can make rules about ballot access. what's not clear is whether they can make rules about ballot access that enforce the federal constitution. that's a separation of powers issue, because it is, after all, the federal government, the united states constitution that establishing the requirements for who can be president. so can a state try to enforce that? i don't know. but i do know that president obama was born in hawaii, and all these crazy people out there who are raising this issue, and
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if i could just add, you know, the state senator -- my favorite part of the interview is when he said, you know, we want to get on with the people's business, we just have to address this first. that's like the guy who kills his parents and wants sympathy as an orphan. he's the one that created the delay by getting on with this nonsense. >> gloria, the state politicians like to say this doesn't have anything to do with the president. you heard it right there. do you buy that? >> no! i mean, this is not an innocent attempt at election reform in any way, shape or form. this has everything to do with barack obama. as the state legislator just told you, i think, although he tried not to tell you that, this has everything to do with the presidential campaign. this has everything to do with trying to say, gee, we have this election law here in our state. and maybe then barack obama, who hasn't shown us his long form birth certificate, is not
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qualified to be on our ballot in our state. i mean, this is sort of the most basic thing in politics, called a wedge issue. it's a way to drive your people out to vote on your particular issue, and to get an instant base of support, which is exactly what donald trump is trying to do in his own campaign, or whatever you want to call it. there's a group of people out there who believe anything about barack obama, and the birther issue is one of those things that they rally around easily. so in an instant, donald trump is a credible republican presidential candidate. >> jeffrey, earlier we played that sound bite from donald trump on "american morning." you're a long time new yorker. do you think he's serious and can he run on the birther issue? >> well, he is at least currently very close to the lead in a lot of polls. now, that may speak simply to the fact that he's a famous person and early polls have a
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lot to do with name identification. but the cynicism of what he's doing is just so astonishing, because i had believed that birthers generally fell into two categories. biggots or crazy people and the third is craven opportunists and that's what donald trump is. he's preying on the fears, the anger, the bigotry, the craziness of a lot of people in the republican party and he's building a campaign around it. but i have enough belief in the sanity of the republican party not to mention the general electorate, that this is going to fade over time. but sit astonishing that he's gotten this far. >> and he may in the end decide say to have a radio talk show and he can call and talk to anybody he wants. >> he has a tv show. he doesn't need a radio show. >> he may decide, and this may be about the ratings of his
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television show, but he may decide in the end, of course, that politics, he doesn't like it. he would have to release an awful lot of financial information that he might not want to. and by the way, the republicans that i talked to, lots of them don't believe that in the end he will run, but they believe he is taking the republican party down a diversionary track. >> he wrote about this, that donald trump could derail the republican party. but if you listen, he says he's rallying support and generating enthusiasm. >> if you look at the early polls you were talking about, obviously that's a lot about name i.d. but there is a group in the republican party -- and by the way, there are 45% of republicans are not sure that barack obama was born in the united states. you know, that's a big number, okay? so he's playing to the base of the republican party. he's getting this instant
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constituency. but the republicans i talk to who are serious about issues and serious about beating barack obama, are not happy with this development. not because he's number one in the polls right now. those polls go away pretty quickly. but they think he's taking the conversation out of the main stream, in the wrong direction. what the republican party needs to talk about is how to cut spending. they've started to do that in the united states congress. these people say to me, we need to be talking about jobs. we need to be talking about the economy. we need to be talking about gasoline prices. we don't need to be talking about where barack obama was born. because independent voters, 75% of them, believe that barack obama was born in the united states, and those are the people who actually win presidential elections. >> jeff, let me give you the last word here. >> well, the word that democrats have started to use over and over again, their big talking point about the contemporary republican party is "extreme." they're a bunch of extremists.
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if they build a presidential campaign around the issue of birtherism, they will be playing into the democrat's hands, because that is extreme, as well as insane. >> and that's why you see so many republicans now starting to back away from that, because they realize that it's gotten a little out of hand. >> gloria, jeffrey, thank you both so much. we'll leave it there. one final note, and with any luck, the find world on the birther question, we sent gary tuchman to hawaii. he followed the paper trail, talked to doctors, officials and much more. you can see the results of his reporting monday and tuesday right here on "ac 360." meanwhile, up next, new allied action against gadhafi. we've got the latest on air strikes tonight in tripoli. and claims by gadhafi spokesman that the regrets killing anyone, even rebel fighters. we're keeping them honest on that. later, thankfully on a very different note, the royal
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wedding and how commoner kate dealt with other women's royal crushes. >> there were some indiscrete moments in bars when girls would come up to him and there would be kissing. she wasn't happy wit but she didn't end the relationship.
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signs tonight that nato is stepping up the pressure on gadhafi forces. late reports from tripoli of large explosions and the sound of jet aircraft overhead. the alliance warning civilians to stay away from military installations. today saw the first use of american predator drones armed with missiles. they're useful because of their precision targeting capabilities which keeps civilian casualties and collateral damage down. but the hard work, the fighting and dying continues to be done on the ground, especially in misurata, which now resembles a lunar landscape in places. gadhafi forces have been shelling the city nonstop for weeks, targeting civilian areas, allegedly using cluster munitions, which are designed to tear bodies apart. >> misurata is a very brutal, urban battle that is going on
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right now where the gadhafi regime is engaging in activities that are deplorable, and which target directly civilians. men, women, adults, children, causing an enormous amount of death and suffering. >> the regime, of course, denies it all. listen to the spokesman today. he was asked about tim hetherington and chris hondros killed yesterday in misurata but goes beyond their deaths and seems to be trying to put a humane face on the entire war, when every report and most of the video shows otherwise. >> we are sorry for the loss of any human life, of course. we say we are sorry for the loss of the rebel's lives and we want people to stop fighting so no one dies. >> they're even sorry for the
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li loss of rebel lives. >> translator: blood will flow, rivers in all the cities of libya. we will never give up libya. we will fight for the last inch, to the last shot. >> saif gadhafi just weeks ago. after that, his father called the opposition dogs and called on supporters to hunt them down and show them no mercy. and take a look, new video, as always, we don't know precisely where it was shot, but it claims to show just how gadhafi forces treat captured civilians. >> not fighters, civilians, captured, hands bound and pistol whipped and yes, beaten.
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moussa ibrahim says gadhafi wants a cease-fire. decide whether his government's actions say otherwise. joining me now, cnn's frid pleitgen and ann marie slaughter, she served as the state department's director of policy planning. fred, earlier this season you heard loud explosions in tripoli, renewed nato air strikes on the capital. what is the latest at this hour? >> reporter: well, we've since then heard very more loud explosions around the outskirts area of tripoli. those were by far more powerful than the ones we had heard earlier tonight. we still don't have any word from nato or the government here in tripoli as to what was hit, but i can tell you from the sounds of the explosions they do resemble the ones that we heard earlier this week when nato was taking on ammunition dumps here in the vicinity of tripoli.
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we've seen the air strikes here around tripoli increase over the past couple of days, as nato is saying it's taking out the command and control infrastructure that gadhafi has here, telecommunication installations, here in tripoli as well as in sitre and those ammunition dumps. what they're trying to do is prevent gadhafi from communicating with his forces in misurata, as well as on the eastern front and trying to take his ammunitions away from him. also, as you mentioned, nato saying that they're going to step up that air campaign and they're warning civilians in libya to stay away from military installations. as you see them using predator drones and robert gates saying he believes the first predator strikes might have already started. we know from iraq and afghanistan that the predators are very, very good at precisely taking out targets and they can stay in an area of operation for a long time, hover there, find the targets and take them out.
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>> what's interesting, fred, is these stepped up nato efforts come on a day when opposition fighters made significant gains in misurata and elsewhere in libya at the border. why is that so critical? >> reporter: well, it's very critical. they've been criticizing nato very heavily. i was in touch with people in the opposition in misurata earlier today and they told me that they have expelled gadhafi's forces from the inner city of misurata. that doesn't mean gadhafi forces aren't still there. of course they're still shelling the city. but they've taken out a lot of the sniper positions that have been causing a lot of carnage. there's one building in the middle of misurata, you have one tall building called the national insurance building. that had snipers all over it. that's now been liberated. also, other key parts of that town have been gotten rid of. gadhafi's forces there in those areas. so a significant win for them
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there. also, on the tunisian border, the rebels say they've taken a border crossing there, that's the western part of libya. it's very significant because it indicates that they've gotten a foothold in the west of the country. there are tribes there for a long time that have been opposed to moammar gadhafi. it seems as though now they are back up and fighting gadhafi's forces and have made some significant gains there. not a game changer yet as some people would say. however, it's one more thing for gadhafi to worry about. >> let me bring in ann marie. despite the rebel's success today, the fact remains the fighting seems to be at a stand still and moammar gadhafi remains in charge of the country, despite ault those air strikes. is this mission a failure as some critics are beginning to suggest? >> andi, i actually think the mission is going as well as you can expect it to go, given that
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this is a really tough fight. i mean, it's been just about a month that nato has been actually leveling the playing fields so that the rebels can find back and they are gradually making progress. if we hadn't intervened at this point, gadhafi would be in control of benghazi, of misurata, of all these towns. instead, what you're seeing, and it's tough, are the rebels themselves, making progress. it's their fight and lit be their victory. and that's important. what nato is doing is preventing gadhafi from fighting in the way that he would want to fight, which is essentially taking out civilians everywhere, and really fighting completely illegally. so i think we're doing pretty well. i think what fred just talked about in terms of fighting back in tripoli is important, because it means we may not be able to take out gadhafi's soldiers in
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misurata, but we can degrade his overall ability to do the kind of thing he's doing in misurata. >> the nato allies have been divided how to conduct this mission. is nato up to the task, do you think? or will the u.s. eventually have to step back, maybe step back in, take a bigger role, possibly even send in ground troops? >> first thing to say is i don't think there's any chance the u.s. will send in ground troops. and nato has been having, you know, some kind of getting used to the mission issues. but overall, i think nato is doing very well. we have been supporting them. we do have some capabilities nato doesn't have. but you need to compare what nato is doing now to what the europeans were doing back in the early 1990s in the former yugoslavia where really the europeans could not take it on themselves at all. and now they are leading this
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mission. inevitably, there's going to be some friction when you've got 27 nations, some of whom are contributing in some ways and others in other ways. but all things considered, they're learning as they go. they're improving their abilities and having u.s. drones will certainly help. >> fred, just to switch gears here for a second. i know that you also spoke with the woman who barged into that hotel and said she had been raped by gadhafi forces. i want to play just a little bit of your interview with her. >> translator: i usually get harassed when i have to show my identification card to government officials and i have put complaints forward. they humiliate me, to the point where other people gather around and start saying it's shameful to treat a libyan woman that way. it is the same thing every day. >> so fred, she continues to be trapped in tripoli and harassed
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by government officials daily. it doesn't sound like things have gotten any better for her. >> reporter: no, it certainly doesn't and that's one of the things we have been following up on. we have heard from government officials here in tripoli that they were working on trying to get her to be able to leave the country. however, so far it doesn't appear as though there's been any movement on that whatsoever. the other thing is she's been trying to bring those to justice who raped her. she said the authorities have been doing nothing at all. the simple fact was, that we actually had to meet her secretly in a car here in tripoli because the authorities here are also trying to prevent us from seeing her, from speaking to her and from getting her story out there. >> all right, fred, stay safe, please. professor slaughter, thank you so much. still ahead, four "new york times" journalist describe the terror of being held for six days in libya by pro-gadhafi forces. >> i started crying, because i
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thought it's only going to get worse. this is just, you know, we're in the first 15 minutes. this could last months. later, a wedding preview, in just eight days, kate middleton will become part of royalty. that's ahead on "360." in 2011, , building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity... and making a substantial investment to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call to the most advanced data download, we're covering more people in more places than ever before in an effort to give you the best network possible. at&t. rethink possible. lord of the carry-on. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national.
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in benghazi, libya earlier tonight, this was the scene. libyans, including rebel fighters holding banners. one said "uk and usa, your blood was mixed with ours in misurata." they were there to greet a ship carrying the bodies of two journalists killed yesterday in misurata. tim hetherington, shown on the left, was a british citizen. chris hondros on the right, was an american. both were award winning photographers, seasoned journalists who were hit by a rocket-propelled grenade while covering rebel fighters. their deaths bring the number of journalists killed to four. there was more than 80 attacks on journalists covering the conflict. last month, four "new york times" journalists were captured in ajdabiya by gadhafi forces. the journalists were freed after six terrifying days.
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they described their ordeal to anderson. >> you had a driver, mohammed, who was stopped at the checkpoint with you. you're not sure what happened to him, he hasn't been found. but you think you may have seen his body? >> it's hard to say. i'll tell you what i did see, and obviously it was -- i was in sort of semi shock. this is in the first sort of 20 minutes to an hour after we first got stopped. and i looked over and i saw our car. one of the doors was open and there was a guy taking our stuff out and putting it on the sidewalk. and i looked down and next to the driver's side was a man face down, with one arm outstretch and he cleary wasn't moved. my initial thought was it's mohammed. but i didn't see his face, and it's hard to say, because we don't know, you know, there was so much chaos after the car was stopped. >> we all rely on locals so often, you know, taxi drivers,
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drivers. you must still be thinking a lot about him. >> oh, yeah. this has become the focus, and it has been in the beginning. you know, mohammed has been part of our group that we've been inquiring about. of course, we've been checking the jails, the hospitals, the morgues, everything. and still nothing has come forward and this is all weighing very heavily on all of us. this driver was, you know, a great driver, was working with us. about 21 years old. and we feel this huge responsibility. >> anthony, you wrote "if he die, we will have to bear the burden for the rest of our lives that an innocent man died because of wrong choices we made for an article that was never worth dying for. no article is, but we were too
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blind to admit that." >> that's right. i think the full impact of that burden, it's starting to dawn on me. you know, why didn't i leave earlier? why did i stay as long as i did? you know, you hope that you're doing it because that story wouldn't have been told otherwise. but even if that story hadn't been told, it wasn't worth someone's life. >> as you can imagine, they had much more to say. their story is the focus of a special "360" hour, coming up at 11:00 eastern. you'll hear how they were captured, what they endured and why they were convinced they would die. anderson also talks with some family members about what those six days were like for them. we're following several other stories tonight. isha sesay has a "360" bulletin. >> >> big news in syria. the president has lifted the 4-year-old state of emergency, and abolished a stated state
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security. in the past few weeks, many protesters have died in clashes with security forces. a court appearance in toronto, canada today for a man accused of murdering a university exchange student from china. part of the young woman's struggle with her attacker last week was caught on webcam. she had been speaking to a friend back home in china. nusers of iphones, your device is tracking your movement and storing that data. that word from two researchers, one of whom said he used to work for apple. apple has not yet responded to the allegation. now i don't feel so bad about having an iphone. >> i usually leave mine at work. then i'm always at the office. >> you're a dodgy woman. >> isha, thank you. up next, count down to the royal wedding. william and kate's path to the
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altar was not always easy. ahead, see how the royal family has learned a lot from what happened with charles and diana. also ahead, what caused senator john enson to call it quits sooner than expected? back in a moment. diarrhea and constipation., ...and? it helped balance her colon. oh, now that's the best part. i love your work. [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health.
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the royal wedding between prince william and kate middleton is just eight days away. their romance, however, began nearly a decade ago when they
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were both students in scotland. like so many young couples, their road to the altar was complicated. in her new documentary "the women who would be queen" soledad o'brien looks at the media scrutiny. >> in the months after graduation, the press followed them every way, to weddings, polo matches. there were rumors of a breakup. fleet street was on fire. in january 2006, it only got worse. william began his royal military training in the english countryside, leaving kate alone in london. >> he was beginning his military career, in essence, around a lot of other young men who were going to make their lives in the military. and so there was a lot of heavy drinking going on, a lot of partying going on. >> was he faithful to her? >> yes, indeed he was. there were some indiscrete moments in bars when girls would come up to him and there would
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be kissing. she wasn't happy but she didn't end the relationship. >> it's probably difficult on their relationship. she was having that incredible scrutiny from the press. she would walk out of her flat and be besieged by 20, 30 photographers, and that really couldn't go on. >> it was just chaos. they would follow her to work, stop her in traffic, flashing through the window while she was trying to drive her car. that's when it really was stressful. >> all dangerously reminisce sent of what happened to william's mother. look at the images of diana and kate, both taken before they were married. >> i ran into a doorway, and was crying. >> for kate, it was very different. despite her young age, she seemed very smart and guarded with the press. kate's friend, richard. >> there was a nightclub that
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everyone goes to. and she was famous for always slipping into the bathroom and checking her hair and makeup because she knew there were photographers waiting outside. >> privately, there were serious concerns. >> she was not his fiance, therefore she was not entitled to any bodyguards. william is surrounded by bodyguards, essentially at all times. and he realized that she was pretty much on her own, and she was afraid for her. >> kate middleton's edge try into the royal family has drawn many comparisons to that of diana's 30 years ago. but her marriage to prince charles not only didn't last, the disintegration involved a lot of questionable behavior on both sides, all recorded by britain's aggressive press. so a short time ago, i spoke to richard quest in london. i asked him if the royal family had learned anything from the past. >> they have learned a huge
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amount. not least of which because they've learned the sheer amount of press and public intrusion into their lives destroys marriages, destroys lives, and makes it a misery. now, in the very early stages, kate was on her own. she didn't have bodyguards. she didn't have royal protection, and it was a real royal circus. since the relationship became more stable, since it became more serious, she was provided with protection. she was provided with the necessary attributes and this is just a day or two before her wedding. she's out and about in london. she's buying last minute clothes believed to be for the honeymoon and now she has the full penalty of royal protection. >> we watched diana really struggle under the media spotlight. do you think kate is going to be more comfortable handling that? >> she has several huge, huge differences from diana.
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number one, she's older, and university educated. she's been around a while. number two, she knows her fiance far better than diana did. diana was a shy, young woman who found herself in love with her prince charming. william and kate lived together and have done so for several years. number three, the royal family are far more aware of those pressures. and finally, the press themselves. they are much more cautious because they know lose access to the family, get on the royal's bad side, and they'll cut you off. >> absolutely. so the queen unveiled this instrument of consent today. sounds very official. can you tell us exactly what that is? >> yeah, it goes back to the 1700s when permission had to be granted. the idea was to stop the monarchy from falling into
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foreign hands. no grubby foreigners in the royals. so what they did was they created a statute, the royal marriages act, that basically says if you're under 25, then you have to get the sovereign's permission to marry. if you're over 25, you have to wait a year, if the sovereign doesn't consent and parliament doesn't object. william is nearly 30. but even so, the royal marriages act had to be complied with. the queen has granted her consent to their beloved kate catherine middleton as it's put in the consent decree. >> so in simple terms, they had to ask grandma for permission. >> oh, oh, oh! listen, didn't take you long for the poison to start pouring. no, the queen has never -- well, i say never denied. her sister, of course, princess
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margaret, who wanted to marry captain peter townsend many decades ago, that was thought to be an inappropriate relationship and it became clear that the princess wouldn't get the permission necessary, or at least she backed off before they went over the cliff. >> also, speaking of the queen, today is her birthday. not the official one. that's actually in june. how does this work? how does she have two birthdays? >> oh, very simple, very simple, as indeed it's traditional and historical. the reason is, because there could always have been the potential that the monarch's real birthday would be at the wrong time of the year. november or december, january, when you would have had a parade, a trouping of the color and it wouldn't have been able to take place and it would have been messy and nasty. so they created a fictional
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birthday for the monarch, at the best time of the year, middle of the summer, when you can have your parades, when things can look good. just think about it. no more worrying about a downpour and literally raining on your parade. >> well, at 85, good for her. richard quest, i know you're going to be on the streets of london watching the royal wedding. we'll be there with you watching, as well. thank you so much. and stay with us for our special coverage. we're live all next week in london with our coverage of all the magic of a royal wedding. the marriage of william and kate. 10:00 p.m. eastern, 7:00 pacific right here on cnn. still ahead, serious stuff back home. the search for a suspect behind the apparent plot to bomb a mall near columbine high school on the anniversary of the massacre. also, a senator in the middle of an ethics scandal announces he's stepping down. an embarrassing moment for a
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spanish soccer star in front of thousands of screaming fans. building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity... and making a substantial investment to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call to the most advanced data download, we're covering more people in more places than ever before in an effort to give you the best network possible. at&t. rethink possible. i'm out makin' sure this stays a 10, when you drive by. you're checking out my awesome headband, when... ♪ oops. that's when you find out your cut-rate insurance it ain't payin' for this. so get allstate. save cash and be better protected from mayhem like me. [ dennis ] dollar for dollar nobody protects you from mayhem like allstate.
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does that airline go out of it's way to reward you? well, it should. because loyalty is a two way street. and when one side gives the other has to give back. so every action is a reaction. every push is a pull. and every ounce of dedication by one party should be met with the same amount of dedication by the other dedicated redcoat customer service. more first-class upgades. miles that don't expire. this isn't benevolence. this is our business. and the next time an airline asks for yours ask them first: what they've done to deserve it.
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>> female announcer: where everything is included, sometimes the greatest luxury of all is doing nothing at all. save up to 65%. call 1-800-sandals. lynsey adda let's get caught up on some other stories. isha sesay is back with a "360" news and business bulletin. nevada republican senator john ensign is stepping down on may 3rd. he announced he wouldn't seek re-election in 2012 following revelations he had an affair with an aide's wife. his parents also gave money to
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the aide's family. he is facing an ethics vekts shun. police in colorado are looking for the man seen in this video. they suspect he planted a pair of bombs yesterday at a mall near columbine high school on the 12th anniversary of the shooting spree. the justice department has formed a group to investigate allegations of oil and gas price gouging with prices above $4 a gallon in some cities. however, attorney general eric holder says so far there is no evidence of illegal conduct. sltz >> and a victory parade hits a speed bump in madrid, spain. watch this. sergio ramos drops the 20-pound kings cup and under the bus it goes. whoops. he assured fans the trophy wasn't damaged, but a spokesman tells cnn the trophy is, indeed,
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being fixed. oh, that is awful. but i guess there's a reason you don't use your hands in soccer, right? unless you're the goal keeper. >> he should have been holding it with his feet. for tonight's "shot," let's just say a belly laughing baby is hard to beat. we found this on youtube. take a look. >> i love that. a baby cracking up, bubbles, a dog. like i said, pretty tough to beat. >> tough, but not impossible. i see your laughing baby, randi, and raise you one ticklish penguin. a baby penguin also from youtube. >> i don't know where we find this stuff.
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pretty cute, but i see your baby penguin, isha, and raise you a baby raccoon. >> not fair, not fair at all. the only way i can beat that is i if go to anderson in the bathtub with bubbles and a dog. >> i wouldn't be able to raise you on that either. but i have no idea where we find this stuff. thanks for playing along. >> thanks, randi. >> anderson is back tomorrow. up next, anderson and captured in libya. st: uld switching to geico reallyavyou 15% or more on car insurance? host: is the pen mightier than the sword?
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ninja 2: ow vogeico. 15 minutes uld save you 15% or more on car insurance. when we turn lobster into irresistible creations like our new lobster-and-shrimp trio with a parmesan lobster bake, our decadent lobster lover's dream and eleven more choices. ending soon at red lobster.
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let's just start at the beginning. you were driving out of ajdabiya
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because you knew gadhafi forces were moving in, right? >> yes. we had been treating this in the same way that we had with other cities that had fighting in them, like brega, ras lanuf. we had seen these towns fall between the two sides over and over. so as gadhafi forces were bombing from the west of the city inwards, we were kind of pulling back slowly as that advance was coming. >> and you're all in one vehicle, a driver, a guy named mohammed and you're driving to the east gate of the city? >> correct. that was i think the haunting -- one of the things that played over in my head was that creepy realization of what we up against. lynsey was the first to realize it was a government check point. it must have been seconds but it felt like minutes. we got closer and closer and we saw the green military uniforms, the military vehicles, and then almost -- i mean, almost
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instantly you realized you were at a government checkpoint and we had pretty much no options. >> that's got to be the worst feeling to realize there's a level of organization here, these guys aren't the opposition forces, this is gadhafi's people. >> and you can't go back because they'll open fire, you would assume they would open fire. you look more suspicious if you try to run away. we just sort of -- we made a decision to go forward. at some point, you know, it's so chaotic. you don't know what the best option is. tyler was saying, don't stop, don't stop, because we wanted to coast through and hope they didn't recognize we were foreigners. at the same time, they knew they were. they saw tyler in the front seat. >> and the risk is if you don't stop they'll open fire. >> right. it's a no-win situation. and our driver stopped the car and jumped out and said "journalist," and then it was -- >> all hell broke loose. >> yes. >> you were yanked out of the vehicle first?
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>> correct, yes. i was grabbed by my jacket and my camera straps and literally pulled out violently out of the car. the moment that i was not even completely out of the car, we were attacked with heavy gunfire, very accurate gunfire from opposition fighters who we had just been with just moments earlier. >> the opposition guys were firing at you? >> they were firing past us toward the checkpoint. we were caught in the middle. as we were being pulled out of the car, i think i had gone two, three steps into the road, tyler was in front of me. there was a soldier grabbing my bags, trying to pull me out. i'm screaming at me him, journalist, journalist, foreigner, americans, british, whatever. and he's trying to grab my bags and i'm basically saying to him, really, in the middle of a gun battle? can't we do this over that sand dune over there? you're facing the risk of, am i going to be shot by these guys who i can't see or by this guy pointing a rifle in my face? >> you find yourselves laying on your stomachs, bound. and you hear one of the
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soldiers, you speak arabic, you hear one of them say, shoot them. >> that's right. we were put on our knees first and there was a lot of slapping and emptying of our pockets. and one of the soldiers was yelling at me, you're the translator, you're the spy. and soon after that, they forced us on our stomachs. i think we all had that sinking feeling that this is it. i remember looking up, i remember him being a tall soldier and him saying, shoot them. it felt like a lot of time, but it was probably a matter of seconds. another soldier said to them, you can't, they're americans. >> i want to read something that you wrote about that moment. you said, at that moment, though none of us thought we were going to live, steve tried to keep eye contact until they pulled the trigger. the rest of us felt the powerlessness of resignation. you feel empty when you know that it's almost over. explain that, what do you mean? >> i don't know how my colleagues felt, but it wasn't panic, necessarily. it wasn't that desperation or flailing about that you're about
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to be killed. it was almost that, you know, it's hard to describe other than calling it resignation or emptiness that the moment is drawing near and you're waiting for it. >> there's nothing that you can do. you're literally captive and you know that any move you make they can shoot you. so it's almost easier to just not move and say, okay, i might die right now. and you're resigned to the fact that this could be the end. >> it sounds stupid, but you see that moment in movies of people lined up, put on the ground and then shot and you always think, why don't they run or do something? >> there's no point. what's the point? it will just be more violent. you know, i think your better chance is you hope they take pity on you for being terrified. i think we all assumed we were about to die. for me, i said okay, if this is the worst thing that is going to happen to us, i probably won't feel it. it will probably be quick. >> i agree that you see these things in movies.
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for me, i played them in my head so many times. >> you've been in a lot of tight situations. all of you have. >> yeah, and i always thought i had myself mentally prepared. like if it gets to this point, i would do this, i would run, i would just try to get away. you know, there are so many things that you kind of have in the back of your mind. but when that happens, all that just got thrown out the window. >> you really thought you were going to die? >> yes. when they demanded we lay on our stomachs, we all were begging no, we don't want to go. we're sorry. we're begging not to go on our stomachs. we all felt once we were on our stomachs they were going to start shooting. as soon as i went on my stomach, i was waiting to hear gunfire. and it was really a sinking and empty feeling. >> is that why you wanted to maintain eye contact? >> yeah, it's never over until it's over. unfortunately, i've been in this
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situation before. >> you were taken hostage in afghanistan? >> in afghanistan and iraq in 2004. >> are you lucky or incredibly unlucky? >> both. there was no real question of making a run for it at that point because you're surrounded by guys with guns. if you present your back to these guys, they're just going to shoot you and enjoy doing it. you can only work them if you're looking at them, looking in their eye. >> if you're showing your back, you're no longer a person, easier to kill? >> you can't be talking with them and negotiating with them. you can't be pleading with them if your back is turned to them. they're not going to have any compunction about shooting you. they're going to enjoy it. anthony was working and throwing them arabic at them. i was thoughing what arabic i had at them. you're just pushing -- you just push every button you can as quickly as you can in the seconds that you may or may not have. journalist, that wasn't working. americans, that did seem to hit a cord. anthony was saying other things. lynsey, i distinctly remember saying, i just don't want to be
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raped. i just don't want to be raped. >> and begging. i just kept saying please don't, please don't. we were all waiting to be shot. so i just said, please. >> they were forcing us on our -- they were saying get down. we all went halfway. it's crazy, you're compromising with nothing, no cards to play. you're trying to play them. get down, right, i'll go on my knees, just not all the way down, because then you've lost everything. >> and you think it's the fact that they viewed you as americans, that's what made the difference? >> the idea of executing three americans and a british journalist would have had implications. there was going to be repercussions of executing us in at a checkpoint, that we were somehow, i try to say this without reading value into it, but we were somehow worth something. or zero dependency on foreign oil. ♪ this is why we at nissan built a car inspired by zero.
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you met lots of different groups of militia groups and soldiers and early on they wanted to exert dominance over you. is that -- >> that's right. i think it was always those first moments. i think we all experienced that. when i was getting loading in, there was a head butt. >> they head butted you? >> at the very beginning. >> as time wore on, society's deeper instinct generosity would show through, but i think it shows the government that's been
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in place for so long. >> when you are captive, it's extraordinary how you resist change. to you i'm bound, i'm blind folded, but i'm not dead. please just don't change that. i don't want to be moved to another car. i don't want to go anywhere, because i'm not dead here and now and i don't know what will happen. >> and what the next group will be like. >> exactly. >> lynsey, you weren't spared any different treatment because you were a woman. >> i think i was spared. i was punched in the face twice. >> while you were bound? >> yeah, while i was bound. the first time was right at the beginning when they took us, they put steve and i in one car, and they lifted me up first, two men picked me up and put me in the car. this was before steve got in, and i remember i was sitting in the car, and i'm bound and they had bound my hands so tight they were starting to go numb. and i'm sitting there, and my hair was falling in my face and you can't do anything. it was really irritating me.
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and i was sitting there sort of blowing the whiffs of hair out of my face. and this guy came up to me, and my instinct was, oh, he's going to help me, and he just punched me in the side of the face. to me i've never been punched in the face before. i was really surprised. i thought, wow, that's really strange. i started crying, because i thought it's only going to get worse. this is just -- you know, we're in the first 15 minutes. this could last months. >> what happened when you started crying? what was his reaction? >> he started laughing. he didn't hit me again, he started laughing. about ten minutes later, a different guy came over and untied my hands. another guy brought me a tissue and a soldier pulled it out of his hands and threw it on the ground. so some were nice, some took pity on me and others were just really aggressive. >> as a woman, you mentioned early on, you were afraid about being raped. they would come and sort of grope you, right?
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>> they came and groped me from the minute we were taken from when we were put on the ground face down and started searching our pockets. a guy flipped me over and immediately started touching me. and i think, for me, i've never been touched like that in the muslim world and i've been working 11 years in the muslim world. yes, i've had in pakistan a grab here, a grab there. but this was different. i knew that this was -- it was a line that had been crossed and that it was going to consistently happen. that's when i said, oh, god, i don't want to be raped. for me the entire time this went on, my one fear was that i was going to get separated from this group, because i kept thinking they might drag me off. so every time i was blindfolded or moved somewhere, i kept saying are you there, are you with me? we were all very scared about being separated. but i wasn't. there was one time in the prison where someone came in and picked up my leg and tried to drag me
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out and i squirmed up and i literally spooned anthony. you weren't even conscious. you were like asleep or something, and the guy put my leg down and picked it back up and started pulling out again and i basically just laid next to anthony and he left. he sort of gave up and said okay. >> would people say anything to you while they were doing this to you, would you say anything to them? >> no. one time in the back of an apc, an armored personnel carrier, they sort of threw us all in the back and we were all just sort of jumbled on top of each other. and one of the guys behind me, it was my back to his front. he put his hand over my mouth and he started touching me. and i started -- i didn't scream but i said, please, i have a husband. and he said, don't speak. and he just kept touching me more. ironically, one of the other soldiers heard me begging him and pulled me away from him. and then the guy pulled me back
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against him. and then the soldier pulled me away from him and kept his arms around me. so it was as if he was sort of ashamed of the treatment that the guy, you know, that the guy was touching me and making me so up comfortable. >> tyler, one guy they called the sheikh threatened you with beheading. what did you say? >> he put his hand in my hair. he couldn't see my face, because i had this blindfold on. he said, i like your head. you have a very nice head or something like that. he said, i'm going to cut it off, i'm going to take it off of your body and i'm going to remove your head from your body, he kept saying that. i think just from the whole -- all the stress and exhaustion of this, i really felt at that time very hot, very -- i actually kind of dizzy. and at that point, the whole thing just felt very surreal to me and quite terrifying. >> lynsey, another guy, i was
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really struck by this in the article that you wrote. there was another moment where somebody was stroking your hair. >> yeah, it was twisted. i was sitting next to anthony, and we were all put in the back of a land cruiser. i was on the end, and, again, blindfolded and hands tied behind my back at this point. i was sitting like this, and a guy reached over from the front seat and started caressing my hair like either -- like a mother would a son or a daughter, and then he started touching my face, very sort of gently and saying this phrase over and over. and i sort of tried to put my head down and he picked it up and kept caressing me in this weird sort of tender way. he was saying this phrase over and over and i said to anthony, i said, what is he saying? anthony said, he's telling you you're going to die tonight. i just -- i mean, what can you
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say? there's no -- it's so -- you have a guy who is like, he's caressing your hair and telling you that you're going to die. >> i once saw a video of an american kidnapped in chechnya. we watched it during these war courses. it really reminded me that, because he was jenltle with the guy, stroking his hair and he cut off his finger at that same moment. there was something about the gentleness, and that's what struck me about it. >> it's as if they take a course on how to psychologically traumatize you. each one of us, i can only speak for myself. but it was the psychological trauma that was the worst. we can all with stand getting punched in the face. we're all pretty tough. i think the mystery of not knowing what's to come, the sort of gentleness mixed with the cruelty, the repeated being handed over to new people every
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few hours. i mean, that just makes you -- it breaks you down. building up our wireless network all across america. we're adding new cell sites... increasing network capacity... and making a substantial investment to improve your wireless network experience. from a single phone call to the most advanced data download, we're covering more people in more places than ever before in an effort to give you the best network possible. at&t. rethink possible. t adwiwiout food al t does that airline go out of it's way to reward you? well, it should. because loyalty is a two way street.
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one of the things that you wrote in the article, the act is probably less terrifying than the unknown. you don't know what comes next. is that true, the not knowing? do you run through scenarios constantly? >> i think that's what we did. that first 12 hours was so tough. you know, we probably should have died the first 12 hours, given the intensity of the firefight and the positions we were in. i think after that, as we were talking to each other, it was what's next? what are the scenarios out there? what might happen to us? i think that you have little else to do but talk among
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yourselves. that was, in some ways, the most terrifying thing, the unknown. >> these guys understood power. this is all about power. power expressed sexually, in terms of beating, power expressed in terms of fear. they had absolute power. every thug we met had absolute power over us and you got none, i mean, none. your hands are bound, nothing. your mind just starts racing away. it was constantly a case of coming back from the fears that you're projecting and into where you are now. >> one of the things that often being in an experience like this, not they've ever been in anything close, but when you realize that it's the state itself, which is after you, which has the complete power,
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you do get a sense as a reporter a little bit more about what it's like for people who are living there, and who have been living under this, and you wrote something, over the years all of us have seen men blind folded or corralled like in iraq or afghanistan. now we were the faceless. we had covered perhaps too dispassionately. we felt what it was like to be disoriented by blindfold, for our hands to go numb. does this experience change the way you see things? >> it definitely changes the way i see prisoners, definitely. i never -- i photographed prisoners with hoods on and their hands bound and i've never thought about what it feels like to be -- to be removed of all of your senses. so definitely i think all of us sort of thought, oh, my god, i can't believe we never realized how horrible it is to be blindfolded and bound.
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it's a horrible feeling. >> it's not just a question like is something torture or not. there's many degrees before it over gets to torture that is horrific. >> you have to dehue ann -- dehumanize before you do that. it would be harder to hit us in the face if we weren't blind folded, if they can see our faces eye to eye. but that whole process of throwing us in the back of a pickup truck was part of the dehumanization in a way, that made it easier to commit violence. >> i have been through this before. one thing i found in afghanistan, i asked to go to the toilet more than i had to, because there's something, some rehumanizing in an act as personal as that. they have to take you. they have to untie your hands and i felt that did break it down just a little bit, that hostility. >> how do you deal with the fear? how do you not become overcome with fear? >> there's just no point.
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if you panic, you die. >> i think it helped we were together. there were moments when i was -- i couldn't stop crying and i felt so weak and i tried to sort of muffle it and i was trying not to cry. you know, inevitably one of them was sitting next to me and would say, there are people who love you, we're going to get out of this. so it's very helpful to have colleagues with you. we were so lucky that we were together. >> early on, you didn't know if anyone knew where you were, but it's got to help to know i work for an organization that has resources that will be looking for us. >> we hoped so, but you don't know anything. >> of course, we knew that the times and our families were working on this 24-7. but you still have that feeling of, we're in the middle of nowhere.
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how are they going to find us here? it's really, you just feel like you've dropped the end of the earth. >> what do you think about to get you through? >> i think each person had their -- tyler was a great storyteller. lynsey has a great sense of humor. steve has a british education. i think over time the camaraderie started coming out. >> so you're flown to tripoli, you're handed over. the groups are arguing over who's going to get you. you also wrote that in hearing them sort of debate over you and argue over you, you said the more they talk, the clearer it became, the semblance of a state was not a state. >> i think our destinies were decided on that tarmac in tripoli. i think we got lucky in the end. we didn't go to the dreaded
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intelligence apparatus. we went to military intelligence. and we were treated well after we were delivered to them. but that very conflict, you know, different branches debating who gets to take these hostages, who gets custody of these hostages illustrated the chaos that's afoot in libya, that this is four decades of rule by a man who vowed to dismantle the state. and here it was playing out in front of us. >> you had a driver, mohammed, who was stopped with you. you're not sure what happened to him. he hasn't been found, but you think you may have seen his body? >> it's hard to say. i'll tell you what i did see. obviously, it was -- i was in sort of semi shock. this is in the first sort of 20 minutes to an hour after we first got stopped. and i looked over and i saw our car and one of the doors was open and there was a guy taking our stuff out and putting it on a sidewalk.
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and i looked down and next to the driver's side was a man face down with one arm outstretched and he clearly wasn't moving. and my initial thought was, it's mohammed. but i didn't see his face. and it's hard to say, because we don't know, you know, there was so much chaos after the car was stopped. >> we all rely on locals, taxi drivers, drivers, you must still be thinking a lot about him. >> oh, yeah. this has become the focus, and it has been from the beginning. you know, mohammed has been part of our group that we've been inquiring about. of course, we've been checking the jails, the hospitals, morgues, everything. and still nothing has come forward and this is all weighing very heavily on all of us. this driver was, you know, a
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great driver, he was working with us. about 21 years old. we feel this huge responsibility and really -- >> anthony, you wrote if he die, we will have to bear the burden for the rest of our lives that an innocent man died because of wrong choices we made for an article never worth dying for. no article is, but we were too blind to admit that. >> that's right. i think the full impact of that burden, it's starting to dawn on me. you know, why didn't i leave earlier? why did i stay as long as i did? you hope that you're doing it because that story wouldn't have been told otherwise. but even if that story wasn't told otherwise, it wasn't worth someone's life. alone there's been a 67% spike in companies embracing the cloud-- big clouds, small ones, public, private, even hybrid. your data and apps must move
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but i've learned a lot from patients who use flexpen.
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you must get this question a lot. why do you do this? what is it -- why do you feel it's important? all of you are incredibly experienced in incredibly difficult circumstances. you've all risked your lives numerous times.
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you've had two kidnappings. you, i believe, had one in iraq. you've all been in jams. what is it that drives you to do it? >> i think there are some stories that are worth taking risks form. i think back to the decisions i've had to make over the years, staying in baghdad in 2003, covering the war in lebanon in 2006, ramallah in 2002. these stories, you do have that sense. it is a little bit of a cliche, but there is some meaning to it, that unless you're there covering it, no one is going to know about it. unless you're trying to bring a certain depth to it, it won't be done otherwise. that's the question i've been struggling with, is that the case in ajdabiya before we get abducted? would that story have not been told otherwise? i don't know the answer to that, to be honest.
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>> i think you take risks and they really -- those risks are always worth taking when you're back at your hotel and you've sent in your pictures or filed your story and nothing happened. you got away with it. that's when a risk is worth taking. when something bad happens, then you realize it wasn't worth taking. >> i think in a place, you know, in this conflict, there was no one else on the ground. if we were up at the front line, no one knew what was happening. you know, you cannot get accurate information. we would ask the rebels, has brega fallen? they would say, yeah, we have brega, but they lie. i mean, when we would go up, you realized you couldn't get five kilometers past the town before. so you really had to go on your own and work at it, because there was no one else to bring that information. and so i personally felt it was very important we were there covering it, especially now that the u.s. is getting involved and
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there's talk about arming the rebels. you know, we need accurate information. who are the rebels? what's going on, on the ground? people need to see that if they're going to make decisions. >> this is one of those stories, this is one of those conflicts where if you were 20 miles behind the front line, you had as much idea what was going on as if you were 2,000 miles behind the front line. what you're trying to do is you're trying to put yourself in a position where you can cut through this -- this mess and say this is what is happening. these rebels are -- these people, these gadhafi forces are doing this. and this at a time when as lynsey says, it's gone geopolitical. this is a time when governments are about to commit lives and hundreds of millions of dollars into a conflict. and we're trying to say, if that's the resources you're going to be putting into this conflict, if you're going to choose to interfere in this, this is the situation on the
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ground. and it is the same you risk you take that gets that journalistic information that puts people in mortal peril. it is the same risk. if it works for you, it comes off. if it doesn't work for you, you get the blame. that's the way the job is. >> is it hard being back? i know obviously you want to come home after a situation like this. that's completely normal and understandable. it's got to be strange to still see this stuff going on. is it -- i always find it hard going from one world to another. all of a sudden you're on a plane and you're in a different world and the world keeps spinning and nobody knows what you've gone through. is it strange being back? >> for me, it was really -- i wouldn't say strange. it really -- the reality of how this affects people that i love really came forward. i mean, what you put your family and your friends and your loved ones through and your employer
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and everyone. it was really quite emotional to come back and see how -- >> more than anything in the past? >> yes, definitely. because there are three days of my family, for example, didn't know if i was dead or alive. that's a lot to put your family through. and everyone else that you know. >> exactly. >> i think that -- it's happened to me twice in my life. i was shot in 2002 and this experience a couple weeks ago. looking at death or coming that close to death, i think it's not only the emptiness and resignation that you feel as it happens but it lingers a little while. it perhaps fades away over time, but it's something that you don't necessarily bounce back from right away. >> i also think there's nothing like coming home, you know, but also when i walk around the streets of new york and i'm so
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happy to be home, but i look around me and most people don't care about what's happening in libya. and i ask myself, why do i do this? why am i so dedicated to this profession that no one cares about? it's me. i spend ten months out of the year in some weird hotel room alone, trying to watch whatever is on tv. it's lonely and physically and emotionally taxing. it's a difficult profession. when we walk around the streets of new york, most people have normal lives. and i think, why do i do this? why do i torture myself? it's simply because i think it's really important for people to see what they don't want to see. and for people to see the reality of people's lives outside of their little box. >> do you think this is going to go on a long time in libya, short of gadhafi being killed?
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>> one thing that was clear to me, as we went from ajdabiya to tripoli, this is absolutely not going to be anything like egypt or tunisia. it's going to be messy and last a long time. i think a generation is going to be haunted by this reckoning that is going to have to be made of what gadhafi's rule is representative of more than four decades. >> i really admire all of you. so thank you very much for talking. >> thank you. [ thunder rumbles ] [ male announcer ] the motorola xoom. designed to access anything and everything on the internet with adobe flash. upgradable to 4g lte for blazing-fast web surfing. and access to the fast growing, endlessly exciting apps in android market. it's everything the tablet should be. starting at $599.
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where were you when you realized something was wrong? >> we are used to speak with each other every couple of hours, especially when he's covering a story. that day he didn't -- he called me in the afternoon and they didn't contact me for five or six hours after. so i started to be worried. then i contacted his colleague, who was in benghazi in libya. and he told me that he hadn't heard from steve and the others about the same time. and then we knew they were missing. >> that's got to be the worst feeling, to have your husband that far away and not get information. >> it's a very difficult feeling. unfortunately i went through this before in 2009 when he was
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kidnapped by the taliban. i know in situations like this, i have to be strong. i have to be able to -- e-mails and phone calls and be in control of my feelings. >> when did you know something was wrong? i spoke to her that morning on that day. and she said she had a feeling that things were turning negative and that the government forces were quite near and she wanted to get out of there. and i didn't -- a friend of mine called me in the evening and said have you heard from lynsey or tyler and i got a suspicion that something was wrong. then we started talking to other friends and found out, and "the new york times" got in touch. then, of course, every minute of the day gets worse because you don't know anything. i was in deli on my own and i was wearing down the floor as i was walking around, you know, with two laptops on the reuters
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screen, the e-mails, and everything, and i didn't sleep for several days. >> is there really anything that you can do? because you don't have access to the information -- i mean, no one know where is they are. what do you -- how do you pass the time? >> you basically wait. "the new york times" was in touch with us every single day. they were calling us, e-mailing us when they had news and didn't have news. all you have to do is wait. i was trying to call steve's phone all the time, because the first few days we didn't know where they were. they were missing. no one called us or took responsibility or said that they had them. so i was trying to call his phone. they were ringing but no one answered. so i was basically thinking maybe they managed to run away and hide the phones or maybe something more terrible happened to them. >> everyone wants to help, as well. which i always -- which is difficult, as well. because it kind of exhausts you, too. sometimes you don't want to talk to anybody. you just want to wait it out, in a way.
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and you want friends, but at the same time i think the worst was the first three days, because it was very odd that four western journalists disappeared completely out of thin air. >> very experienced western journalists who have been in the hottest places there are. >> i had a positive feeling they were okay, but you always have this thing, well, what if a bomb dropped on their car? but then you would still think that they would be at one point recognized somehow. like you were saying, lynsey had a mobile phone and it kept ringing. and this is kind of -- i mean, i stopped at one point. it was ringing and somebody hung up. they didn't pick up, they just ignored the call. then i had to kind of stop calling because it drove me nuts. >> i was thinking the same, calling them all the time. and at some point, i thought what if they are hiding the
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phone and they need to contact us and someone finds out that someone is trying to reach them. it's very confusing and emotionally exhausting not to know where they are and what state they are and what they're doing. it's really tiring. >> did you -- in a case like this, do you watch the news? are you trying to consume all the information you can? or does that just make it worse? >> yeah, i tried to watch the news. they read every piece of information about anything, whatever i could get from libya. i speak arabic, so i followed arabic and english news. at some point i started reading about things that happened to other journalists that were kidnapped in libya and it wasn't pleasant. at that point when i was reading these things, i decided that i shouldn't read these things and stay focused and positive to handle this, because i didn't know if it was going to last for days or weeks. >> now subsequently that what you've heard about what they went through, particularly in the first several days, what is
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it like for you hearing lynsey describe what she went through? >> i mean, it's tough. you know, you have to -- this is the job we do. i mean, i think they were all lucky, the four of them, that they got out alive. they're all strong people and this was very tough on them. you can clearly see that. and it is disturbing and i will spend time with her and i'm here for her. you know, they went through things that nobody should ever have to go through. it's difficult to process it. >> when they got to tripoli and were handed to what they believe were military intelligence, they were able to make phone calls. what was that like for you? >> it was very short, five to seven minutes but it was very assuring and it was in the middle of the night. steve called and we spoke briefly and he sounded okay and he assured me over and over again that they were safe and uninjured and unharmed. that was very comforting. one of the things that he told
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me that what kept him going is me and our 3-month-old daughter. it was very beautiful. it was really -- it took the stress away. >> my most emotional is when i spoke first to lynsey, which is a day and a half after her. that's when you realize how traumatic it is, as well. like you stay strong and when you hear the voice, it's really comforting. but you also -- it's like, so you get relieved but at the same time you also feel, wow, this is like, you know, we can't have this a lot of times. >> would you want him to go back to libya ever? >> i think it's a -- no, i don't think i want him to go back there. but i do want him to continue doing journalism that he does best. i met him when we were both covering the israeli-lebanon war in 2006. i knew what kind of job he had and the passion he has for this job and telling the world what is going on in the middle east.
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so i think i trust his judgment and i know that he's very careful. i worked with him and i still work with him and i know how he works in the field. so i know and i'm confident that he's able to take care of himself. >> this is his third close call. i mean, he was kidnapped in iraq and afghanistan and now here. >> yeah, it's difficult every single time. it's very stressful. but he decided after afghanistan not to go back to work in afghanistan and dangerous places in iraq. so this does affect him and me and us as a family. these are decisions we have to make. >> would you want lynsey to go back? >> i think she can wait until, you know, if gadhafi leaves and there's a new government. they're all very determined journalists and this is why we love them, too. this is part of their life and character. it's like cutting off an arm if you tell them to stop. the number one thing you realize
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is how much you love the person and you don't think about the negative. you just think about how important they are and you want them back. but i also love what she does. so it's a double edged sword. yes, i want her to be home more, but at the same time she's an amazing woman and i married her because of that. am i going to say stay home and not do that and have her complaining every day? no. i don't think that's going to work. i'm sure it's the same. >> absolutely. the same feeling. >> thank you very much for talking. >> thank you. [ male announcer ] is zero worth nothing? ♪ imagine zero pollutants in our environment. or zero dependency on foreign oil. ♪ this is why we at nissan built a car inspired by zero. because zero is worth everything.
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the zero gas, 100% electric nissan leaf. innovation for the planet. innovation for all. the doctor leaned over and said to me, "you just beat the widow-maker." i was put on an aspirin, and it's part of my regimen now. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. go see your doctor now. but i learned that i don't have to use a vial and syringe as part of my daily routine anymore. my doctor showed me the novolog mix 70/30 flexpen. flexpen is discreet and comes pre-filled with my insulin. flexpen goes with me and doesn't need refrigeration. and it's covered by most insurance. if you're still using a vial and syringe, ask your healthcare provider about the benefits of flexpen. flexpen is a discreet, pre-filled, dial-a-dose insulin pen. you can dial the exact dose of insulin you need. and inject insulin by pressing a button. novolog mix 70/30 is an insulin used to control high blood sugar
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in adults with diabetes. do not inject if you do not plan to eat within 15 minutes to avoid low blood sugar. tell your healthcare provider about all medicines you take and all of your medical conditions, including if you are pregnant or breastfeeding. most common side effects include reactions at the injection site, weight gain, swelling of your hands and feet, and vision changes. other serious side effects include low blood sugar and low potassium in your blood. get medical help right away if you experience serious allergic reactions including body rash, trouble with breathing, fast heartbeat, sweating, or if you feel faint. flexpen is made by novo nordisk, a healthcare company committed to diabetes care for nearly 90 years. i've made flexpen part of my routine just like spending time with my family. ask your healthcare provider about novolog mix 70/30 flexpen today. learn more about the different insulins available in flexpen at myflexpen.com. flexpen. insulin delivery that goes with you.
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