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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  June 7, 2011 10:00pm-12:00am EDT

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mitt romney, it's been a real pleasure. thank you very much and good luck with your campaign. we'll be seeing mitt romney at the republican presidential primary debate here on cnn live beginning at 8:00 on monday. that's all for us tonight. here's anderson cooper with "ac 360." >> piers, thank you very much. good evening, everyone. we begin with growing pressure on congressman anthony wiener to step down. he says he's done terrible things but nothing to warrant quitting. but some of his sexting partners are casting doubts on his claim that he did it all on personal time. details of his raunchy online messages to around the country. a call from members of the opposition calling for his resignation.
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>> i think it's up to congressman wiener and his constituents to make that decision. i think he should resign. >> that's eric cantor. late today, we got this reaction from congressman wiener. >> he's entitled to his report -- careful. i'm not resigning, no. >> how did you feel when you woke up this morning? >> thanks, guys. >> as for his party leader in the house, nancy pelosi, she sent this brief letter asking for an official investigation. now, apart from that, the silence from fellow democrats today, deafening except for harry reid, who might have said worse than nothing. >> you didn't say whether you thought congressman wiener should resign. >> i'm not here to defend wiener. >> what do you think he should do? >> that's all i'm going to say.
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[ inaudible ] >> call somebody else. >> ouch. also today, two house colleagues who received money from congressman wiener said they are donating that money to charity. did the congressman abuse his office for extramarital affairs? here's what he said yesterday. >> my blackberry is not a government blackberry. i don't have the knowledge of every last communication, but i don't believe i used any government resources. >> in almost the same breath, he said this. >> i don't believe that i did anything here that violates any law. i don't believe that i did anything that violates any law or any rule. >> he's leaving himself wiggle room. however, one of his online friends tells abc news the one time he went offline and called
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her instead, she says the call came from a number associated with his new york congressional office and it was made on may 18th, a wednesday, in the middle of the workday. and just two weeks earlier on may 5th, also a workday, brusard says she asked for and he sent him this picture to prove it was really him. there's also the question whether congressman wiener coached any of the women how to handle the media. here's what he said about that in regard to the woman he sent the crotch shot to. >> at no time did i or any member of my staff try to do anything to cover anything up. she did reach out to me and expressed what has -- i expressed my apologies to her. but there was no coaching of any sort going on. >> did he coach any of the other women? that remains to be seen. presumably the ethics committee
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will look into it. and there's this, rule number one which calls on members to conduct themselves at all times in a manner that reflects credibility on the house. in theory, congressman wiener breached this law. dana bash has been covering this and joins us now. so does paul begala and senior political analyst david gergen. what's the latest on the ethics investigation? >> they're a secretive institution and committee but it's impossible to imagine they won't be looking into this given the fact that there have been calls to do so. i talked to several experts on ethics rules today, people who had worked on this committee and they say it's not that cut and dry, given what we know now,
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that anthony wiener can be punished for violating any laws. you talked about the most common one that he seems to have violated the fact that members of congress should act in respectable ways. nobody has been punished for that in and of itself. even the whole concept of sending these pictures or sending texts on official computers or phones, that is not necessarily a cut and dry, clear violation. there are loopholes allowing for personal use. and technology has surpassed the actual rules laid out. i'm told by many, many sources that this is much more of a political issue for him at this point than a legal one, especially since these investigations, if they do go on, take years sometimes. >> paul, if this were a republican, the democrats would be talking a lot about it and you would hear silence from the republicans. you hear some stuff from
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republicans and virtually nothing from democrats. this is just all about politics for people on capitol hill? >> everything is about politics for people on capitol hill, so yes, of course. the democrats have taken the lead on this, but there's a couple things going on here. first, congress is not in session. if they were here, that would be worse for anthony wiener. second, i talked to several members of congress, all of them democrats. they're not hearing a lot about this from their constituents, because they're more worried about jobs, medicare, their own lives. and third, there is this process which is the ethics committee. any politician can plausibly say there's a committee charged with doing this, they'll look into it. and finally, eric cantor, the republican majority leader, big mistake in stepping up in that show we just called and calling on wiener to resign.
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if he had been quiet, the democrats have nothing to rally around. now almost every democrat pointed out that congressman cantor never called for david vitter to resign. so now they have at least some kind of a political foil in cantor. big mistake for cantor. s he should have been quiet. >> david, what do you make of this? is this something they hope will go away in time? often times these ethics investigations go on for a long time and the end result is not quite as satisfactory. >> i think there are a lot of democrats that would like to see him go away, not just this go away. had he come forward when this first broke, i think he would have survived. he showed poor judgment, but a lot of americans show poor judgment. none of us can be totally exempt from that.
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but it was the lying afterwards and the blatant lying that i think set him up for a downfall. now it's hard for me to see how he survives. you start feeding things back into his most recent press conference, questioning his credibility even yesterday. that's going to question. there are going to be more things come out. transcripts come out with explicit language, that will make a difference for the public. if they have that read to them over the air, they're not going to be happy about it. >> go ahead, dana. >> i want to pick up on that point. first of all, david is exactly right. last week when this was unfolding, i talked to a couple members of the democratic leadership who said that they were really making clear to anthony wiener, clean this up, either talk and say what's really going on or stop talking. the fact that he didn't do that,
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didn't answer our questions, basically lead point blank to wolf blitzer, has made this so much worse for him now in the democratic leadership. nobody is publicly calling on him to resign. there's no evidence for any private push to resign. one other thing to make this point, the democrats really do wish it would go away. you showed a letter nancy pelosi wrote asking for an investigation. it was political and the democratic source i talked to said that adds pressure to go. >> paul, do you think he can remain? >> he can. david and dana make all the right points. it may be hard to prove and it may be technical, but a lot of members of congress are going to look to this question of using public resources, government resources. i understand it's murky, but just -- as sort of colleague to colleague, i keep hearing this a lot. god help him if he lies anymore.
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but also this question of did he use public resources. if he did, members are going to be much less willing to stand for it. they've been silent in terms of calling for him to resign in my party, but they've also been equally silent to defend him. other democrats in the past have had people defend them. but as david pointed out, the performance that he conducted, being abusive to dana and tom barrett and then being dishonest to wolf and the rest of the journalists, makes it impossible for anybody to defend him. >> david, how long do you think this will go on for, an investigation like this? >> the investigation could go on a while. i think the real question now is, how many legs does the story itself have? how many women come forward, what kind of pictures do they have to display. the next three or four days are crucial for this. if this storm passes, he could
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survive. i doubt it. i do think there is a political aspect. there are a lot of democrats who are mad at him because they thought they were on the offensive over medicare and the ryan plan. remember that? and this sort of blotted that out and they don't like to go into an election campaign with an albatross. >> dana, paul, go ahead. >> that's 17 months ahead. i don't think democrats are wore yesterday about it in the election. but what they want now, eric cantor, the republican leader of the house, to say whether david vitter should resign. if he's going to be opining on any unfaithful husband, he should take a position on david vitter who got caught on the
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d.c. madame's list of friends, whether he should resign. >> paul begala, thank you very much. david, as well. dana bash, thanks. a whole lot more to the story. we'll talk with one of the woman who claims she had an online relationship with congressman wiener. let us know what you think on facebook or twitter. up next, massive new air strikes on libya and fresh new lies from the regime, even using an injured little girl for pr propagan propaganda. also, more damaging testimony in the casey anthony murder trial, testimony that puts a body in casey's car and in her parent's backyard. first though, let's check in with isha sesay. imagine doctors trying to cure a 5-year-old boy because he plays with dolls. imagine the government using taxpayer money to fund it. it happened. we'll show you the results. don't miss our special report, sissy boy experiment, uncovering
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the truth when "360" continues.
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keeping them honest tonight. new lies from libya's dictator as the air strikes on his regime
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increasing. nato firing more than 60 missiles. targeting command and control centers, including moammar gadhafi's compound. a recording of the dictator today running on libyan state television. >> translator: we will not surrender. we will not give up. we have one option, our country. we will remain in it till the end. dead, alive, victorious, it doesn't matter. >> in addition to the strikes, nato is also using attack helicopters. the regime is claiming that many civilians are dying. >> today has been one of the most horrific days of attack on our nation. the forces of evil attacked with full power. >> for one thing, he made no mention of the siege of
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misurata, nor the regime's claim that they would go after the opposition like rats. and when it comes to proving their claim of civilians, they brought reporters to a cop tick church they said was hit by a nato bomb. and they showed a girl in a coma. later, dan heard the girl was the victim of a traffic accident. as for the munitions, it appeared to come from russia. with us in tripoli is dan rivers. also joining us retired general james spider marks, and ann marie slaughter. dan, tripoli hit today by some of the heaviest nato bombing we've seen since march. and during the daylight. what's the latest there tonight?
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>> reporter: yeah, there's been a lull, anderson, in the last couple of hours in the air strikes. but it has been the most intensive day of air strikes since this nato campaign began. we counted more than 50 separate explosions that reverberate across the city. officials telling us that colonel gadhafi's compound was hit. nato hasn't given us a full rundown of what and where they hit, but certainly we were seeing plumes of black smoke billowing up behind me here and we were left this is entering a much more intensive phase. >> general marks, what do you make now of the use of these attack helicopters? >> anderson, what that means is that gadhafi's command and control and specifically his air defense capabilities have really been sufficiently degraded so
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that you can use those kinds of capabilities with an increased precision and you can fight attack helicopters much more so than you can use fixed wing aircraft to strike very precise targets. so what it means specifically is gadhafi has a decreasing ability to resist and to defend against these attacks. >> the danger of using the attack helicopters, they're flying lower, they're slower, they're more vulnerable to rpgs and other projectiles. >> of course. the example of what happened in somalia almost 20 years ago is still in our minds, but the point is his military has been degraded quite considerably. any air defense capabilities have been degraded if not totally wiped away. so of course there's a risk of what you described but it's minimal. >> i guess it also allows them
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to go after smaller units and vehicles. >> absolutely, anderson. what you have is the ability of what i would describe as a fighting capability, where you've got an aircraft, it can engage multiple targets, it can loiter in place, it can move very slowly, it can move very quickly and do its own battle damage assessment or determine the effects of those attacks itself. >> ann marie, nato may be deteriorating their air capabilities, but are the opposition forces learning fast enough how to fight? we've seen remarkable bravery and fighting i guess accumen they learned in misurata, but the forces coming from benghazi, it hasn't been impressive. >> on the one hand, you're tightening the noose on gadhafi,
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essentially by letting the people around him know that their days are numbers. and now by striking at internal security facilities, which makes it easier for the population. in other words, we're now attacking the secret police, those who control them. on a separate track are the opposition. those are the opposition is getting better but it's not directly connected to our degradation of the military forces. we're essentially working to see if people will rise up in tripoli or the people around gadhafi will decide they're really not interested in being martyrs, even if he is. >> dan, we have continued to see high level defections. when the regime, they took you to that hospital where they said this little girl has been injured in an attack and then you learned through sources of you own that she was injured in a car accident, how aggressive
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is the regime in terms of trying to point out things which seem to be not true? >> they were furious when that story broke. in fact, it was a reuters journalist who first wrote up that story. one of the journalists in the press pack got passed a note by a hospital staffer basically saying this girl was injured in a car accident, nothing to do with nato. once that story broke, they were absolutely furious that we were calling into doubt their propaganda show that they put on for us. and since then, they have constantly been trying to intimidate journalists into retracting that story, as well. i mean, the question of civilian casualties, there have been no evidence we've seen of widespread civilian casualties. we've been taken out to areas where we've seen craters near houses. we have no way of knowing if
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these were caused by nato if this has been staged. but i don't think -- okay, there might have been the old rocket go astray here, but no evidence of widespread civilian casualties so far. the nato air strikes seem to have been precise so far. >> general marks, how long do you see this going on for? >> it's an all or nothing type proposition. as long as gadhafi is alive, there will be an engagement to make sure that there is some end state that allows a peaceful transition. that's where you get to the discussion of what does that look like after the nato strikes? does that include boots on the ground? i would suggest yes. if for no other reason than to facilitate this movement. >> anderson, i don't think -- certainly the united states is
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not sending troops on the ground. >> you're talking from a political stand point. why do you say it's not going to happen? >> politically, i don't think there's any support for troops on the ground and i think once we put troops on the ground, then the old colin powell, you break it, you own it comes into play. because this is going to be a complicated transition, and probably will take a number of years before libya develops the institutions we want. there's a lot of tension between the east and the west. so i agree in an optimal world i would send in a u.n. force, but it's not going to be a u.n. force and i don't see nato troops going in. >> general marks, you want to comment on that? >> i sure do. i would say that it doesn't necessarily have to be united states, and i would not suggest that the united states do that. but at the end of the day, there is going to be some incredible score settling that will be taking place and that will be
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another catastrophe that we want to prevent and that's going to require somebody in between these two forces. >> thanks for being with us. coming up, the casey anthony murder trial, focusing on the smell in anthony's trunk of her car. a lot of testimony about that today. will the jury buy today's testimony from the dog handler? the latest from gary tuchman. and the defense will raise some interesting points about chloroform and the use of it or the lack of it. also, a stunning story about an experiment on a 5-year-old boy. kirk murphy was his name. his parents thought he had too many feminine traits. a government funded research program set about trying to change this little boy, punishing him for being effemina effeminate. kirk's brother speaking out, say thing therapy ruined his brother's life.
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>> the only thing they did is destroy our brother. he was empty, nothing there. we don't go lower than 130. big deal, persuade him. is it wise to allow a perishable item to spoil? he asked, why leave a room empty? the additional revenue easily covers operating costs. 65 dollars is better than no dollars. okay. $65 for tonight. you can't argue with a big deal. [ male announcer ] the inspiration for its shape was an archer drawing his bow. ♪ could that have also inspired its 556 horsepower supercharged engine? ♪ the all-new cadillac cts-v coupe. we don't just make luxury cars,
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call... or visit one of our local offices today, and we'll provide the coverage you need at the right price. liberty mutual auto insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? in "crime and punishment" tonight, more testimony in the
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casey anthony murder trial. a dog handler was testifying a cadaver dog smell human rained in the trunk of casey anthony's car. >> reporter: casey anthony looked detached except when her eyes focused on the prosecutor as she approached the defense table to hand over a document. the prosecutor, who believes casey anthony deserves the death penalty. the prosecutor, who called this man to the stand. >> were you called to assist in an investigation regarding the disappearance of caylee marie anthony? >> yes, i was. >> reporter: jason forgy is a canine handler. he has become a player in this high profile trial. ape caylee anthony disappeared, he was brought to casey anthony's pontiac sun fire.
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>> he comes out of the trunk to the right here passenger taillight, bumper area and gives me a final alert. he goes into a down position. >> reporter: that's the signal a dog gives when it's detected the scent of a dead body. he was also brought to the anthony's backyard, where the same thing happened. >> is this the area you were describing where you got the alert? >> yes, ma'am. >> reporter: casey anthony's attorney wanted the jury to doubt the dog's accuracy. >> there are such things as false alerts? >> yes. >> dogs are not infallible? >> they are not perfect, no. >> reporter: but the deputy said he had his own alert. >> i smelled it clear as kay. >> reporter: what's notable about this testimony is that ultimately it may not contradict the defense's case. during opening statements, casey anthony's attorney said that caylee anthony accidently drowned in the backyard pool. and even though he's not
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supposed to deliver his closing arguments till the end, we may have heard a bit of that argument today. >> i don't believe a dead body in the backyard is a disputed issue in this case. >> objection. >> sustained. >> reporter: none the less, the attorney continued to atrack the credibility of the deputy and his dog. gary tuchman, cnn, florida. >> earlier i spoke with jean casarez and michael hunter. dr. hunter, a dog handler testified his dog was able to sniff out human decomposition in the trunk of the car but the defense said that the testimony coming from basically a dog is unreliable. how accurate are these dogs pin pointing places with human decay? >> i think the defense doesn't have a leg to stand on here. dogs are extremely sensitive to
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odors. >> i've spent a lot of time with cadaver dogs and they don't alert on things like trash. i think the defense was hoping they could one of the handlers to say, and they are very specific as you say. >> they are very specific. you could have these dogs in say a dump looking for remains and they can be successful in that setting. keep in mind that just like myself, i'm a certified forensic pathologists. these dogs are also certified. they have to show that they have the ability to be both sensitive and pacific for odors of decomposition. >> gene, you think the testimony was a strong point of the prosecution today? >> you want to hear something interesting? the florida supreme court came down with a session weeks ago saying a case can be overturned on appeal if the dog is not competent. so the prosecution talked about the certification and the
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training and everything that this dog had gone through, because i think they wanted to be prepared for any appeal on this issue. >> because there are a lot of dogs which frankly don't have the certification which are used or overused. you have to be very careful about how you use these dogs, how often you use them, because they do get tired. dr. hunter, yesterday a scientist testified he found shockingly high, his words, levels of chloroform. but we heard from a chemist who said he found low levels. how do you explain the discrepancy? >> the person who testified yesterday, the expert from tennessee, basically obtained a specimen in an airtight container that maintained that specimen. whereas today the expert with the fbi received a sample to test that was in a container of cardboard material. a chloroform is highly volatile. it will dissipate.
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that specimen needs to be in an airtight container. >> a csi technician said he had took out a bag of trash from the car. the defense suggested that odor could have come from that trash. is it possible that smell could have come from the trash bag? >> there's no way. the smell of decomposition is so distinctive and overpowering. there's no way you're going to mistake it for simple trash. i think the defense has a very difficult time with that issue. >> it is hard to distinguish between decomposing human and animal remains. you could make an argument if there was raw meat or animal meat in the garbage, that might be decomposing but that wasn't in the trash. >> think about what makes up human remains.
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it's a mixture of muscle, fat, skin, and it's really the fat that produces this very pungent odor. i can tell you, anderson, i've seen hundreds of decomposed bodies. i've had the chance to examine them, and there is no way that you're going to be able to mistake those two things. >> we've been hearing that from just about everybody on the stand, right? >> yes, and the chemical composition was corroborated by the dog today because the dog hit on the car. >> jean, thank you very much. dr. michael hunter as well. thank you very much. >> thank you. still ahead, the sissy boy experiment. a "360" special about this little boy, kirk andrew murphy. decades ago he received therapy to make him less effeminate. the result his family says was disastrous.
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tonight a "360" special report. the sissy boy experiment, uncovering the truth. over the next three nights, we're going show you what happened to a little boy who got enrolled in a government funded study.
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he was just 5 years old at the time, and decades later the research that was done on this boy is still being cited by those who think kids can be prevented from becoming gay. the story begins in the early '70s when the little boy was treated at ucla. his treatment at the time was called a success. and still many people consider that it was. but now more than 30 years later, we know what really happened to this little boy. his name is kirk murphy. and for the first time on television, his family is sharing their story with us. and they're doing it because they want you to know who kirk really was. they want you to know what impact they say it had on the rest of his life. >> this is my brother, kirk. this is when he was -- >> this is the last time mark murphy remembers his brother, kirk, as a happy child. the photo was taken when kirk
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was 4. a year before he was placed in therapy at ucla to treat what doctors identified as exaggerat exaggerated feminine behavior. >> it left kirk with the belief that he was broken. >> kirk's sister and brother say he was never the same after therapy. >> the only thing they did is destroy our brother. they took him away from us. he was empty, nothing there. >> in 1970, kirk murphy was a smart, outgoing 5-year-old growing up near los angeles. his mother, however, was worried about him. >> well, i was becoming a little concerned about playing with the girls toys and stroking the hair, you know, the long hair and stuff. i was seeing effeminate mannerisms. it bothered me. because i wanted kirk to grow up and have a normal life. >> mrs. murphy says she saw a
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psychologist on a local tv program talking about behavior like kirk's. >> he was naming all these things. if your son is doing five of these ten things, does he prefer to play with girl's toys instead of boy's toys. >> the psychologist was recruiting young boys for a government funded program at ucla, part of which was designed to reverse perceived feminine behavior, what one doctor called sissy boy syndrome. >> him being the expert, i thought i should nip it in the bud. >> for nearly a year, kirk was treated at ucla. reitgers went on to become a founding member.
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to treat his sissy behavior, he was placed in a room with two tables. he was observed through a one-way window. he was given toys to play with, and could choose between traditionally masculine ones like plastic knives and guns or feminine ones like dolls and a play crib. he could choose clothes to wear. kirk's mother would be brought into the room and told to ignore him when he played with feminine toys or clothes and compliment him when he played with masculine ones. he wrote when kirk's mother ignored him, he would beg for attention, crying, even throwing tantrums. but mrs. murphy was told to continue to ignore him. >> in this particular incident, they write that he becomes so upset. he's just beside himself that they had to remove him from the room. and after they remove him from the room, they come this and tell my mom that it's working
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and then they bring him back and start all over. >> having read this report, i can't coming back to the word experimenting. >> absolutely. without a doubt. >> this is not some proven treatment. this is -- >> no. >> this is experimenting. experimental therapy even continued outside of ucla. in kirk's home, his parents were told to use poker chips as a system of reward and punishment, to make kirk act more masculine. do you remember these chips? >> oh, yes i do. >> were you awarded them as well? >> yes, i was. my parents added me to it just so they could reinforce to my brother, big brother is doing it too, so everything is okay. >> these are the actual chips. >> the actual real chips. >> so blue chips were for masculine behavior? >> yes. >> and the red chips were a penalty for feminine behavior. so if he played with one of your
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dolls, he would get a red chip? >> yes. >> according to the case study, the red chips resulted in physical punishment by spanking from the father. do you remember the beating? >> oh, yes, sir, i do. many times did i move the stacks around. >> how do you mean? >> i took some of the red chips and put them on my side. i did see the beatings. it was just like -- >> you would take kirk's red chips? >> yes, sir. >> you would take them yourself so he wouldn't get beaten? >> yes. we would come home from school and that's the first thing you did when you walked through the door and you looked and what was the chip count today? how bad is it going to be. the whipping every friday night. >> i do remember one time he spanked him so hard that he had welts up and down his back and on his buttocks. i remember mark saying, cry harder and he won't hit so hard. today it would be abuse. >> according to kirk's brother
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and sister, his outgoing personality began to change and his family says the impact of the therapy lasted his entire life. >> he had no idea how to relate to people. it's like somebody just turned his light switch off. >> he actually ate his lunch in the boy's bathroom for three years, when he didn't have to. each just to have a friend. >> in his case study of the ucla experiment, they called kirk kraig and considered his work a success, writing his feminine behavior was gone. in numerous other published reports and studies over his
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career since, george reitger's uses it as proof that homosexuality can be prevented. the family is outraged, saying kirk was gay. but because of the treatment he was subjected to as a child, struggled with his attraction to men his whole life. >> he acknowledged himself as a gay man in 1985. he never had a committed loving relationship, because he wouldn't allow himself to. >> unable or unwilling to have a committed relationship with a man, kirk focused on his work and chose a career where being openly gay wasn't even possible. he spent eight years in the u.s. air force. and then held a high profile position with an american finance company in india. >> kirk, what do you think of your nephew? >> are we on camera? >> this visit home in june of 2003 was the last time kirk's
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family saw him alive. >> nearly six months later, he took his own life. hanging himself from a fan in his apartment in new delhi. kirk murphy was 38 years old. >> i used to spend so much time thinking why would he kill himself at the age of 38? it doesn't make any sense to me. what i now think is i don't know how he made it that long. >> tomorrow night, part two of our investigation, how does george now respond to the family's allegation that his family led to kirk's suicide? we tracked him down in florida. that is tomorrow night on the program. still ahead, a search for a blogger who calls herself gay girl in damascus. plus, a plea deal for willie nelson and his pot possession case. and "ridicu-list" tonight, the
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people you don't want to sit next to at the movies.
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check in with isha for some of the other stories we're following tonight. in texas, authorities now say they've turned up no evidence of any homicides at a home they search after a person called in a tip. earlier law enforcement sources said at least 20 bodies had been found on the body northeast of houston. it's unclear whether the soon ambassador to france has in fact resigned. earlier today a woman identifying herself announced her resignation by telephone on french telephone. but a short time later, syrian state television aired telephone denials from someone they identified as the ambassador.
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meantime, syrian american blogger has allegedly been kidnapped in damascus. he had been blogging about the middle east up risings and what it's like to be gay in chancellor. the german chancellor and her husband were honored today at a state dinner by president obama and michelle obama. ben bernanke said he's still optimistic the economic recovery will pick up again. he also called the job market far from normal. his remarks following a weaker than expected economic report. and willie nelson has worked on an agreement in his 2010 marijuana case. his lawyer says nelson will pay a $500 fine and the judge will dismiss the case if nelson stays out of trouble for 30 days. >> 30 days? he should be able to do that. >> if case you're wondering,
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he's on the road. time now for the "ridicu-list." tonight, people who talk and text at the mu vis. i want to talk about one young woman in particular. a woman who was repeatedly warned to stop texting during a movie in austin, texas, wouldn't stop and was thrown out. then he left an angry voice mail for the theater, which posted it on its blog for your enjoyment. >> all right, did i mention that it's called the alamo draft house and they serve beer. indeed, i think our texter may have partaken a little bit. listen to her now. so excuse me for using my phone in the magnited stated of america where you are free to text in a theater. >> that's the lady who knows her constitution.
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what's all that freedom jazz about if some drunk girl can't update her facebook status? next, she employs something i like to call the silent but deadly defense. >> and it was on silent, it wasn't on loud, it wasn't bothering anybody. you guys obviously were being [ bleep ] holes to me. >> drunk girl didn't give up, though. she's been hitting the law books and comes up with two more arguments. a combo of the i didn't know defense seasoned with the i do it everywhere else defense. >> i was not aware that i couldn't text in your theater, all right? i've texted in all the other theaters in austin, and no one ever gave a [ bleep ] about what i was doing on my [ bleep ] phone, all right? >> maybe she has texted her way through every other movie theater in austin, but this particular theater has a well
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poen zero tolerance policy. and they have all kinds of creative announce mints about it. watch. >> electric cattle prod. if i hear someone talking, i'll give them not an aggressive shock but a light shock. >> if you vote for me, i'll make sure that everyone is very quiet in the theater. >> turn off your cell phones and beepers, please. >> find out who they are and cut their tongue out. >> so i think it's clear where the alamo draft house stands on this issue. and maybe a theeuate we are that kind of policy just isn't for everyone. >> you know, i will never be coming back to your alamo draft house or whatever. i would go to a regular theater where people are polite. >> the ceo of the alamo draft
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house says he wants his theater to be different. >> we wanted to take a hard stand and say that those people are not welcome at the alamo draft house. so we'll get rid of those people and make it a better place for the public. >> i think he should win the nobel peace prize. >> we're paying to see the movie, not your cell phone light, and we want to listen to the actors, not you. to remember the alamo, draft house. or you might end up on the "ridicu-list." more news ahead. we'll be right back.
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good evening, everyone. we begin with growing pressure on congressman anthony wiener to step down. he says he's done terrible things but nothing to warrant quitting. but some of his sexting partners are now coming forward casting doubt on his claim that he thinks he did autd of it on personal time, not the people's time. we're keeping them honest tonight. but the pressure is growing. details of his raunchy online messages to woman around the country are emerges. a call from members of the opposition calling for his resignation. >> i think it's up to congressman wiener and his constituents to make that decision. i don't condone his activity. i think he should resign.
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>> that's republican majority leader eric cantor. late today, we got this reaction from congressman wiener. >> he's entitled to his report -- careful. >> would you consider it? >> i'm not resigning, no. >> how did you feel when you woke up this morning? >> thanks, guys. >> as for his party leader in the house, nancy pelosi, she sent this brief letter asking for an official investigation. now, apart from that, the silence from fellow democrats today, deafening except for harry reid, who might have said worse than nothing. >> you didn't say whether you thought congressman wiener should resign. >> i'm not here to defend wiener. >> what do you think he should do? >> that's all i'm going to say. >> what advice would you give him if he asked you? >> call somebody else. >> ouch. also today, two house colleagues
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who received campaign money from congressman wiener said they are donating that money to charity. did the congressman abuse his office for extramarital affairs? here's what he said yesterday. >> my blackberry is not a government blackberry. my home computer is usually where i did these things. i don't have the knowledge of every last communication, but i don't believe i used any government resources. >> in almost the same breath, he hedged that, saying this -- >> congressmen work long hours, but i don't believe that i did anything here that violates any law. i don't believe that i did anything that violates any law or any rule. >> he's leaving himself wiggle room. however, one of his online friends, megan brusard, tells abc news the one time he went offline and called her instead, she says the call came from a number associated with his new york congressional office and it was made on may
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18th, a wednesday, in the middle of the workday. and just two weeks earlier on may 5th, also a workday, brusard says she asked for and he sent her this picture of himself to prove it really was him. again, a workday, mid afternoon, according to abc news. there's also the question whether congressman wiener coached any of the women how to handle the media if their online relationships became known. here's what he said about that in regard to the woman he sent the crotch shot to. >> at no time did i or any member of my staff try to do anything to cover anything up. she did reach out to me and expressed what tsh -- that she had been set upon and i expressed my apologies to her. but there was no coaching of any sort going on. >> did he coach any of the other women? that remains to be seen. presumably the ethics committee will look into it. and there's this, rule number one which calls on members to
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conduct themselves at all times in a manner that reflects credibility on the house. in theory, congressman wiener breached this law is all the house needs to impose sanctions. but it rarely happens that way. dana bash has been covering this and joins us now. so does paul begala and senior political analyst david gergen. dana, what's the latest on the ethics investigation? seems there's real pressure comes from the top democrat to go ahead. >> the only thing the ethics committee is commenting on is they're not commenting. they're a secretive institution and committee but it's impossible to imagine they won't be looking into this given the fact that there have been calls to do so. one thing that is interesting, i talked to several experts on ethics rules today, people who had worked on this committee and they say it's not that cut and dry, given what we know now, emphasizing what we know now, that anthony wiener can be punished for violating any laws. you talked about the most common
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one that he seems to have violated the fact that members of congress should act in respectable ways. for lack of a better term. nobody has been punished for that in and of itself. it's gone along with other things. even the whole concept of sending these pictures or sending texts on official computers or phones, that is not necessarily a cut and dry, clear violation. there are loopholes allowing for personal use. and technology has surpassed the actual rules laid out. i'm told by many, many sources that this is much more of a political issue for him at this point than a legal one, especially since these committees, investigations, if they do go on, take years sometimes. >> paul, if this were a republican, the democrats would be talking a lot about it and you would hear silence from the republicans. you hear some stuff from republicans and virtually nothing from democrats. except for nancy pelosi.
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is this just all about politics for people on capitol hill? >> everything is about politics for people on capitol hill, so yes, of course. the democrats have taken the lead on this, but there's a couple things going on here. first, congress is not in session. if they were here, that would be worse for anthony wiener. because his colleagues would be here and complaining to each other and someone would break and call for him to resign. second, i talked to several members of congress, all of them democrats. they're not hearing a lot about this from their constituents, because they're more worried about jobs, medicare, their own lives. and third, there is this process which is the ethics committee. any politician can plausibly say there's a committee charged with doing this, they'll look into it. and finally, eric cantor, the republican majority leader, big mistake politically in stepping up in that quote she just showed and calling on wiener to resign. if he had been quiet, the democrats have nothing to rally around. now almost every democrat
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pointed out that congressman cantor never called for david vitter to resign. he was on the d.c. madame prosecution list, a customer list apparently. so now they have at least some kind of a political foil in cantor. big mistake for cantor. he should have been quiet and let the democrats watch wiener self-destruct. >> david, what do you make of this? is this something they hope will go away with time as the investigation continues? oftentimes these ethics investigations go on for a long time and the end result is not quite as satisfactory. >> i think there are a lot of democrats that would like to see him go away, not just this go away. had he come forward when this first broke, i think he would have survived. he showed poor judgment, but a lot of americans show poor judgment. none of us can be totally exempt from that. people would have said that's stupid, but let's go forward. but it was the lying afterwards and the blatant lying that i
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think set him up for a downfall. now it's hard for me to see how he survives. you start feeding things back into his most recent press conference, questioning his credibility even yesterday. that's going to continue. there are going to be more things come out. if transcripts come out with explicit language, that will make a difference for the public. yes, they're paying attention to the jobs. if they have that read to them over the air, they're not going to be happy about it. >> go ahead, dana. >> i want to pick up on that point. first of all, david is exactly right. last week when this was unfolding, i talked to a couple members of the democratic leadership who said that they were really making clear to anthony wiener, clean this up, clear this up. either talk and say what's really going on or stop talking. the fact that he didn't do that, didn't answer our questions, basically lied point blank to
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wolf blitzer, has made this so much worse for him now in the democratic leadership. nobody is publicly calling on him to resign. there's no evidence for any private push to resign. one other thing to make this point, the democrats really do wish he would go away. you showed a letter nancy pelosi wrote formally asking the ethics commit toy to investigate. she didn't have to do that. it was political and the democratic source i talked to said that adds pressure to go. >> paul, do you think he can remain? >> he can. david and dana make all the right points. it may be hard to prove and it may be technical, but a lot of members of congress are going to look to this question of using public resources, government resources. i understand it's murky, but just -- as sort of colleague to colleague, i keep hearing this a lot. god help him if he lies anymore. if he lies to the committee or misleads them, he's through. but also this question of did he use public resources. if he did, members are going to be much less willing to stand
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for it. i think it's interesting. they've been silent in terms of calling for him to resign in my party, but they've also been equally silent to defend him. nobody is rushing forward to defend him. other democrats in the past have had people defend them. but as david pointed out, the performance that he conducted, being abusive to dana and tom barrett and then being dishonest to wolf and the rest of the journalists, makes it impossible for anybody to defend him. >> david, how long do you think this will go on for, an investigation like this? >> the investigation could go on a while. i think the real question now is, how many legs does the story itself have? how many women come forward, what do they have to say? what kind of pictures do they have to display? the next three or four days are crucial for this. if this storm passes, he could survive. i doubt it. i do think there is a political aspect of this, anderson.
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there are a lot of democrats who are mad at him because they thought they were on the offensive over medicare and the ryan plan. remember that? and this sort of blotted that out and they don't like to go into an election campaign with an albatross. and they've -- both parties have lost a lot of seats in the past when there's someone who becomes a pinata for the other party to hit during a campaign and say this underscores what the ethics of the other campaign is like. >> dana, paul, go ahead. >> that's 17 months ahead. i don't think democrats are wore yesterday about it in the election. but what they want now, eric cantor, the republican leader of the house, to say whether david vitter should resign. if he's going to be opining on any unfaithful husband, he should take a position on david vitter, the senator from louisiana, who ran on family values and got caught on the d.c. madame's list of friends, whether he should resign. >> paul begala, thank you very much. david, as well.
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dana bash, thanks. a whole lot more to the story. we'll talk with one of the woman who claims she had an online relationship with congressman wiener. let us know what you think on facebook or twitter. i'll be tweeting tonight. up next, massive new air strikes on libya and fresh new lies from the regime, even using an injured little girl for propaganda. we'll expose the lies and have the latest from tripoli on the air strikes. also, more damaging testimony in the casey anthony murder trial, testimony that puts a body in casey's car and in her parent's backyard. details from inside the courtroom today. plus, an less from leading experts. [ male announcer ] j.d. power and associates ranks quicken loans "highest in customer satisfaction in the united states." and if we're this happy about providing great customer satisfaction, imagine how happy you'll be receiving it. one more way quicken loans is engineered to amaze.
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keeping them honest tonight. new lies from libya's dictator as the air strikes on his regime accelerate. nato firing more than 60 missiles at targets in tripoli. rare daylight strikes that continued into the evening, targeting command and control centers, including moammar gadhafi's compound. but apparently not getting him. a recording of the dictator today running on libyan state television. listen. >> translator: we will not surrender. we will not give up. we have one option, our country. we will remain in it till the end. dead, alive, victorious, it doesn't matter. >> in addition to the strikes, nato is also using attack helicopters to try to more
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precisely target pro gadhafi forces and minimize civil casualties. the regime is claiming that many civilians are dying. >> today has been one of the most horrific days of attack on our nation. the forces of evil attacked with full power. >> for one thing, he made no mention of the siege of misurata, which has been going on for months, nor the regime's claim that they would go after the opposition like rats. and when it comes to proving their claim of massive civilian casualties, they put on a dog and pony show. sunday, they brought reporters to a coptic church they said was hit by a nato bomb. and they showed a girl in a coma. later, dan heard the girl was the victim of a traffic accident. as for the munitions, it
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appeared to not come from any nato company, but from russia, a leading weapons supplier to the regime. with us in tripoli is dan rivers. also joining us retired general james spider marks, and ann marie slaughter. dan, tripoli hit today by some of the heaviest nato bombing we've seen since this campaign began in march. and during the daylight. what's the latest there tonight? >> reporter: yeah, there's been a lull, anderson, in the last couple of hours in the air strikes. but it has been the most intensive day of air strikes since this nato campaign began. we counted more than 50 separate explosions that reverberated across the city. officials telling us that colonel gadhafi's compound was hit. that other military installations were hit, as well. nato hasn't given us a full rundown of what and where they
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hit, but certainly we were seeing plumes of black smoke billowing up behind me here and we were left in no doubt that this is clearly entering a new, much more intensive phase. >> general marks, what do you make of the increased bombing campaign and now the use of these attack helicopters? >> anderson, what that means is that gadhafi's command and control and specifically his air defense capabilities have really been sufficiently degraded so that you can use those kinds of capabilities with an increased precision and you can fight attack helicopters much more so than you can use fixed wing aircraft to strike very precise targets. so what it means specifically is gadhafi has a decreasing ability to resist and to defend against these attacks. >> the danger of using the attack helicopters, they're flying lower, they're slower, they're more vulnerable to rpgs and other projectiles.
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>> of course. the example of what happened in somalia almost 20 years ago is still in our minds, but the point is his military has been degraded quite considerably. any air defense capabilities have been degraded if not totally wiped away. so of course there's a risk of what you described but it's minimal. >> it also allows them to go after smaller units and vehicles, which from the air they couldn't differentiate for a while between what were gadhafi vehicles and what were anti-gadhafi forces. >> absolutely, anderson. what you have is the ability of what i would describe as a fighting capability, where you've got an aircraft, it can engage multiple targets, it can loiter in place, it can move very slowly, it can move very quickly and do its own battle damage assessment or determine the effects of those attacks itself. >> ann marie, nato may be deteriorating their air
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capabilities, but are the opposition forces learning fast enough how to fight? we've seen remarkable bravery and fighting i guess acumen they learned in misurata, but the forces coming from benghazi, it hasn't been impressive. >> i think you have to think about these as two separate strategies. on the one hand, you're tightening the noose on gadhafi, essentially by letting the people around him know that their days are numbered. and now by striking at internal security facilities, which makes it easier for the population. in other words, we're now attacking the secret police, those who control them. on a separate track are the opposition. those -- the opposition is getting better but it's not directly connected to our degradation of the military forces. we're essentially working to see if people will rise up in tripoli or the people around
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gadhafi will decide they're really not interested in being martyrs, even if he is. they either defect or ultimately they could overthrow him directly. >> dan, we have continued to see high level defections just over the last couple of weeks. when the regime, they took you to that hospital where they said this little girl has been injured in an attack and then you learned through sources of you own that she was injured in a car accident, how aggressive is the regime in terms of trying to point out things which seem to be not true? >> they were furious when that story broke. in fact, it was a reuters journalist who first wrote up that story. one of the journalists in the press pack got passed a note by a hospital staffer basically saying this girl was injured in a car accident, nothing to do with nato. once that story broke, they were absolutely furious that we were calling into doubt their
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propaganda show that they put on for us. and since then, they have constantly been trying to intimidate journalists into retracting that story, as well. i mean, the question of civilian casualties, there have been no evidence we've seen of widespread civilian casualties. we've been taken out to areas where we've seen craters near houses. we have no way of knowing if these were caused by nato if this has been staged. but i don't think -- okay, there might have been the old rocket go astray here, but no evidence of widespread civilian casualties so far. from what i've seen, the nato air strikes seem to have been precise so far. thanks for being with us. coming up, the casey anthony murder trial, focusing on the dead body smael inside the trunk of the car. a lot of testimony about that
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today. will the jury buy that from the testimony from the dog handler. that's ahead. a stunning story tonight about an experiment on a 5-year-old boy. this is part of a three-part investigation. kirk murphy was his name. his parents thought he had too many feminine traits. some have called it the sissy boy experiment. it happened in the '70s but the research is still being used. his brother is speaking out and says this therapy ruined his brother's life. >> the only thing they did was destroy our brother. they took him away from us. he was empty, nothing there. live with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine you, with less pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is a non-narcotic treatment that's fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain.
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tell your doctor right away if your mood worsens, you have unusual changes in mood or behavior or thoughts of suicide. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. cymbalta is not approved for children under 18. people taking maois or thioridazine or with uncontrolled glaucoma should not take cymbalta. taking it with nsaid pain relievers, aspirin, or blood thinners may increase bleeding risk. severe liver problems, some fatal, were reported. signs include abdominal pain and yellowing of the skin or eyes. talk with your doctor about your medicines, including those for migraine, or if you have high fever, confusion and stiff muscles, to address a possible life-threatening condition. tell your doctor about alcohol use, liver disease, and before you reduce or stop taking cymbalta. dizziness or fainting may occur upon standing. side effects include nausea, dry mouth, and constipation. [ male announcer ] ask your doctor about cymbalta. imagine you, with less pain. cymbalta can help. go to cymbalta.com to learn about a free trial offer. cymbalta can help.
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we're going to head on into the interview. mr. and mrs. nadimpalli... baba... what's the difference between the fusion and other hybrids? the look. yeah, it doesn't look like a box. we wanted a hybrid and we wanted... didn't want it to look like a hybrid. and ford hybrid was fantastic for that. what are your favorite uses for sync? movie listings for me. yeah, i do everything with it. who uses the navigation system the most between the two of you?
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with your host, betty white. featuring lifetime aarp member, betty white. and betty white. i'm sorry, betty isn't here. [ male announcer ] with outstanding performances by the bettys. if you're 50 or over but hesitant to join aarp because you think it makes you old, i have a very important message: [ all ] get over it! [ male announcer ] joining aarp is only sixteen dollars a year. so call in and get a free travel bag when you join now. in "crime and punishment" tonight, more testimony in the casey anthony murder trial. a dog handler was testifying a cadaver dog smelled human remains in the trunk of casey anthony's car and in her parent's backyard. gary tuchman has the latest. >> reporter: casey anthony looked detached except when her eyes focused on the prosecutor as she approached the defense table to hand over a document.
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the prosecutor, who believes casey anthony deserves the death penalty. the prosecutor, who called this man to the stand. >> were you called to assist in an investigation regarding the disappearance of caylee marie anthony? >> yes, i was. >> reporter: deputy jason forgy is a canine handler. his dog was trained to sniff for cadavers and has become a player in this high profile trial. after caylee anthony disappeared, garis was brought to casey anthony's pontiac sun fire, which had been impounded. >> he comes out of the trunk to the right here passenger taillight, bumper area and gives me a final alert. he goes into a down position. >> reporter: that's the signal a dog gives when it's detected the scent of a dead body. he was also brought to the anthony's backyard, where the same thing happened. >> is this the area you were describing where you got the alert?
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>> yes, ma'am. >> reporter: casey anthony's attorney wanted the jury to doubt the dog's accuracy. >> there are such things as false alerts? >> yes. >> dogs are not infallible? >> they are not perfect, no. >> reporter: but the deputy said he had his own alert. when examining casey anthony's car. >> i smelled it clear as day. >> reporter: what's notable about this testimony is that ultimately it may not contradict the defense's case. during opening statements, casey anthony's attorney said that caylee anthony accidently drowned in the backyard pool. and even though he's not supposed to deliver his closing arguments till the end, we may have heard a bit of that argument today. >> i don't believe a dead body in the backyard is a disputed issue in this case. >> objection. >> sustained. >> nevertheless, the defense attorney continued to attack the credibility of the deputy and his dog. gary tuchman, cnn, florida.
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>> earlier i spoke with jean casarez and dr. michael hunter. dr. hunter, a dog handler testified his dog was able to sniff out human decomposition in the trunk of casey anthony's car, but the defense countered saying that the testimony coming from basically a dog is unreliable. how accurate are these dogs pinpointing places with human decay? >> i think the defense doesn't have a leg to stand on here. the dogs are extraordinarily sensitive to the specific odor. it's i think very good evidence in this case. >> i've spent a lot of time with cadaver dogs and they don't alert on things like trash. which is sort of -- i think the defense was hoping they could get one of the handlers to say. they are very specific as you say. >> they are very specific. you could have these dogs in say a dump looking for remains and they can be successful in that setting.
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if they're very well trained. keep in mind that just like myself, i'm a certified forensic pathologist. these dogs are also certified. that have to go through a series of tests to show that they have the ability to be both sensitive and specific for odors of decomposition. >> jean, you think the testimony was a strong point of the prosecution today? >> you want to hear something interesting? the florida supreme court came down with a session weeks ago saying a case can be overturned on appeal if the dog is not competent. so the prosecution spent hours talking about the certification and the training and everything that this dog had gone through because i think they wanted to be prepared for any appeal on this issue. >> because there are a lot of dogs which frankly don't have the certification which are used or overused. you have to be very careful about how you use these dogs, how often you use them, because they do get tired. dr. hunter, yesterday a scientist testified he found
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shockingly high, his words, levels of chloroform. but today we heard from a chemist who said he found low levels of chloroform. how do you explain the discrepancy? >> it's easily explainable. the person who testified yesterday, the expert from tennessee, basically obtained a specimen in an airtight container, a portion of carpet that maintained that specimen. whereas today the expert with the fbi received a sample to test that was in a container of cardboard material. keep in mind that chloroform is highly volatile. it will dissipate. that specimen needs to be in an airtight contain tore maintain it. >> a csi technician said he had took out a bag of trash from the car. the defense suggested that odor in the car could have come from that bag of trash which had food wrappers, an empty pizza box but no food in it.
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could have come from that trash. is it possible that smell could have come from the trash bag? >> there's no way. the smell of decomposition is so distinctive and overpowering. there's no way you're going to mistake it for simple trash. i think the defense has a very difficult time with that issue. >> it is hard to distinguish between decomposing human and animal remains. you could make an argument if there was raw meat or animal meat in the garbage, that might be decomposing but that wasn't in the trash. >> think about what makes up human remains. it's a mixture of muscle, fat, skin, and it's really the fat that produces this very pungent odor. you're not going to officially see that with simple meat products. i can tell you, anderson, i've seen hundreds of decomposed bodies. i've had the chance to examine them, and there is no way that you're going to be able to mistake those two things. >> we've been hearing that from
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just about everybody on the stand, right? >> yes, and the chemical composition was corroborated by the dog today because the dog hit on the car. >> jean, thank you very much. dr. michael hunter as well. thank you very much. >> thank you. still ahead, the sissy boy experiment. a "360" special about this little boy, kirk andrew murphy. decades ago he received therapy to make him less effeminate. he was just 5 years old at the time. the result his family says was disastrous. muscle -- 8% every 10 years. wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? it's the amino acid metabolite, hmb to help rebuild muscle and strength naturally lost over time. [ female announcer ] ensure muscle health has revigor and protein to help protect, preserve, and promote muscle health. keeps you from getting soft. [ major nutrition ] ensure. nutrition in charge!
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tonight a "360" special report. the sissy boy experiment, uncovering the truth. over the next three nights, we're going show you what happened to a little boy who got enrolled in a government funded study aimed at making effeminate boys more masculine. he was just 5 years old at the time, and decades later the research that was done on this boy is still being cited by those who think kids can be prevented from becoming gay. the story begins in the early '70s when the little boy was
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treated at ucla's gender identity clinic. his treatment at the time was called a success. and still many people consider that it was. but now more than 30 years later, we know what really happened to this little boy. his name is kirk murphy. and for the first time on television, his family is sharing his story, their story with us. and they're doing it because they want you to know who kirk really was. they want you to know what he went through and they want you to know what impact they say it had on the rest of his life. >> this is my brother, kirk. this is when he was -- >> this is the last time mark murphy remembers his brother, kirk, as a happy child. the photo was taken when kirk was 4. a year before he was placed in experimental therapy at ucla to treat what doctors identified as exaggerated feminine behavior.
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>> it left kirk stricken with the belief that he was broken, that he was different from anybody else. >> kirk's sister and brother say he was never the same after therapy. >> the only thing they did is destroy our brother. they took him away from us. he was empty, nothing there. >> in 1970, kirk murphy was a smart, outgoing 5-year-old growing up near los angeles. his mother, however, was worried about him. >> well, i was becoming a little concerned about playing with the girls toys and stroking the hair, you know, the long hair and stuff. i was seeing effeminate mannerisms. it bothered me. because i wanted kirk to grow up and have a normal life. >> mrs. murphy says she saw a psychologist on a local tv program talking about behavior like kirk's. >> he was naming all these things. if your son is doing five of these ten things, does he prefer to play with girl's toys instead of boy's toys.
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>> the psychologist was recruiting young boys for a government funded program at ucla, part of which was designed to reverse perceived feminine behavior, what one doctor called sissy boy syndrome. >> him being the expert, i thought, well, maybe i should go ahead and take him in. in other words, nip it in the bud. >> for nearly a year, kirk was treated at ucla. mainly by a man named george rekers. rekers went on to become a founding member of the family research council, which lobbies against laws that seek to protect the rights of gays and lesbians. he's also been a proponent of the belief that homosexuality can be prevented. to treat his sissy behavior, he was placed in a room with two tables. he was observed through a one-way window. he was given toys to play with, and could choose between traditionally masculine ones
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like plastic knives and guns or feminine ones like dolls and a play crib. he could choose clothes to wear. an army hat and military fatigues, or a girl's dress, jewelry and a wig. kirk's mother would be brought into the room and told to ignore him when he played with feminine toys or clothes and compliment him when he played with masculine ones. in a case stoedy note, he wrote when kirk's mother ignored him, he would beg for attention, crying, even throwing tantrums. but mrs. murphy was told to continue to ignore him. >> in this particular incident, they write that he becomes so upset. he's just beside himself that they had to remove him from the room. and after they remove him from the room, they come in and tell my mom that it's working and then they bring him back and start all over. >> having read this report, i keep coming back to the word experimenting. >> absolutely. without a doubt. >> this is not some proven
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treatment. this is -- >> no. >> this is experimenting. experimental therapy even continued outside of ucla. in kirk's home, his parents were told to use poker chips as a system of reward and punishment, to make kirk act more masculine. do you remember these chips? >> oh, yes i do. >> were you awarded them as well? were you part of this? >> yes, i was. my parents added me to it just so they could reinforce to my brother, big brother is doing it too, so everything is okay. >> these are the actual chips. >> the actual real chips. >> so blue chips were for masculine behavior? >> yes. >> and the red chips were a penalty for feminine behavior. >> yes. >> so if kirk played with one of your dolls, he would get a red chip? >> yes. >> according to the case study, the red chips resulted in physical punishment by spanking from the father. do you remember the beating? >> oh, yes, sir, i do.
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many times did i move the stacks around. >> how do you mean? >> i took some of the red chips and put them on my side. i did see the beatings. it was just like -- >> you would take kirk's red chips? >> yes, sir. >> the things he had been given for feminine behavior, you would take them yourself so he wouldn't get beaten? >> yes. we would come home from school and that's the first thing you did when you walked through the door and you looked and what was the chip count today? what happened? what changed? how bad is it going to be. the whipping every friday night. >> i do remember one time he spanked him so hard that he had welts up and down his back and on his buttocks. i remember mark saying, cry harder and he won't hit so hard. today it would be abuse. >> according to kirk's brother and sister, his outgoing personality began to change and he began to behave in a way his parents and george rekers wanted him to.
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his family says the impact of the therapy lasted his entire life. >> he had no idea how to relate to people. it's like somebody just turned his light switch off. and we got what we wanted, see you later. >> he actually ate his lunch in the boy's bathroom for three years when he didn't have to put himself out there, even just to have a friend. >> in his case study of the ucla experiment, they called kirk kraig to protect his identity. he considered his work with kirk a success, writing his feminine behavior was gone and claiming he became indins ting wishable from any other boy. in numerous other published reports and studies over his career since, george rekers uses it as proof that homosexuality can be prevented. kirk's family has only recently
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discovered rekers writing and are outraged. they say kirk was gay. but because of the treatment he was subjected to as a child, struggled with his attraction to men his whole life. >> he acknowledged himself as a gay man in 1985. he never had a committed loving relationship, because he wouldn't allow himself to. >> unable or unwilling to have a committed relationship with a man, kirk focused on his work and chose a career where being openly gay wasn't even possible. he spent eight years in the u.s. air force. and then held a high profile position with an american finance company in india. >> kirk, what do you think of your nephew? >> are we on camera? >> yes. >> this visit home in june of 2003 was the last time kirk's family saw him alive. >> nearly six months later, he took his own life. hanging himself from a fan in his apartment in new delhi. kirk murphy was 38 years old.
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>> i used to spend so much time thinking why would he kill himself at the age of 38? it doesn't make any sense to me. what i now think is i don't know how he made it that long. >> tomorrow night, part two of our investigation, how does george rekers now respond to the family's allation that his therapy led to kirk's suicide? we tracked him down in florida. that is tomorrow night on the program. up next, see how a company that makes bowling pins is building up america. we're a small business. with 27 of us always in the field, we have to stay connected. we use verizon tablets, smartphones. we're more responsive. there are no delays. delays cost money. with verizon, we do things quicker and more effectively. more small businesses choose verizon wireless than any other wireless carrier because they know the small business
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