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tv   CNN Newsroom  CNN  October 1, 2011 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT

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hi. i'm susan hendricks at the cnn center in atlanta. don lemon is off tonight. we start with the u.s. government believe that's killing of a high-level al qaeda leader in yemen could provoke revenge attacks against americans. a cia drone attack is credited with killing american-born cleric anwar al awlaki and several others. the fbi and the state department are warning the killing could
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insight anti-american attacks inside the u.s. and around the world, too. a government official says al awlaki has been under surveillance in yemen for two weeks when the opportunity arose to kill him with a missile. three others were killed in an attack on al awlaki. it's believed one of them may be explosives expert ibrahim hassan al asiri. u.s. officials say there are indications he was on the scene at time. asiri is suspected of making the underwear bomb that was worn by a nigerian man that was worn on a flight to detroit on christmas day 2009. he is also behind the failed plot to put bombs disguised as printer cartridges on planes last july. samir kahn was considered vital to al qaeda propaganda efforts and produced a magazine called "inspire."
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he used to live in charlotte, north carolina at one point. molly graham spoke with people who knew him and asked how she was able to track down kahn last november but the federal government could not. >> we started off by ringing the door bell of samir kahn's parents house. no answer. so we talked with jabrile huff, the spokesman of the family. >> you can imagine if it was your child, a number of emotions, embarrassed. frustrated. >> reporter: he said the ideology that samir wrote about was wrong. he said samir was dangerous but he wouldn't take the next step. was samir a terrorist? >> that's a good question. he definitely was a terrorist supporter. >> reporter: but you wouldn't say he was a terrorist? >> did he actually commit an act of terror? you know, i don't think it's ever been proven that he has. >> reporter: would propaganda, would the words he used against people online, would that not be considered an act of terror?
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>> i don't know, because he was doing the same thing while he was here. >> reporter: so he was backyard terrorist here? >> if he was that while he was here, i would say he should have been arrested and tried for that. >> reporter: the federal government might agree with him on that one. at one point kahn was listed as the number two guy in al qaeda when it came to propaganda. last year a u.s. representative couldn't believe we could track him down yet they couldn't. if he is the number two guy, how did federal intelligence let him get away? move from charlotte, hop a plane go to yemen when i can find him in a parking lot. >> i know. it's crazy. those are the things i'm asking now. those are the same questions i'm asking now. >> reporter: jabrile said he tried to council samir several years ago, as did other muslim americans, including his father. it didn't work. there are americans who say this is a huge day to rejoice, because he was a terrorist, he was taken out along with al awlaki. >> yes, but i'm not one who rejoices in the loss of a human
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life, regardless if they had it coming or not. >> molly graham having some great questions there. thanks to her. she is from wbtv in charlotte, north carolina. drone attacks have been a game changer in the war on terrorism. cnn international correspondent nick robertson filed this story two years ago about how a drone or uav can deliver a kill shot even though the person pulling the trigger is thousands of miles away. take a look. ♪ >> reporter: watch these two men in iraq. they have no idea they're being hunted by a deadly uav. it is following their every move, even recording them fire their weapons. they have no idea their insurgent activities have been spotted and have no idea that the uav operator thousands of mileses away is about to fire a missile at them. it's what makes uavs or drones a must have for the u.s. military.
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>> the real advantage of unmanned aerial systems is they allow you to project power without projecting vulnerability. >> reporter: this is an air force base where drone pilots remotely fly missions over iraq and afghanistan. these pilots saw a surge in mission requests from frontline commanders after weapons were first installed on drones. >> when we put hellfire missiles on the predator, now you have these airplanes that are capable not only of providing the pictures, the full motion video that you need, but now also capable of taking out targets where there may not be other assets available. >> an estimated 40 or more countries including china, russia and pakistan are also developing drones. even hezbollah, the lebanese-based party and paramilitary group, has used them against israel. no one feels the urgency of
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staying ahead of the competition more than the personnel at this air force base. >> right now we're hanging on to everybody in the system. we mobilized the international guard. mobilized reservists. if you are assigned here, we don't allow you to move out. >> already commanders are considering ways to cut out pilots altogether. >> we are looking at a future where we can program unmanned vehicles to operate autonomously. >> with weapons. >> with weapons or without weapons. >> reporter: unimaginable a few years ago. new weapons appear to work with less and less human input. >> there's nothing that is a te technologic barrier to using armed autonomous systems. we think about it as a never ever thing. yet it's not the technology that's holding us back.
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it's trying to figure out the applications of it. >> unmanned technology is here to stay. wars will never be the same again. if ever there is a moment to borrow a line from a science fiction movie, now is it. mankind is boldly and irreversibly going where man has never been before. towards an uncharted era of warfare. nic robertson, cnn, nevada. now, killing al awlaki and kahn, american citizens, has sticky ramifications for the white house, but the death of al asiri could be a success. he is a top bombmaker for al qaeda in the arrayian peninsula i want to bring in athena jones standing live for us in washington. we want to talk about who is al asiri and what would his death mean for al qaeda as a whole. what does it mean? >> as you mentioned, this would
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be a big success for the u.s. if he is, in fact, dead. we spoke with usa official earlier today who said by all indication -- there are indications that he was on the scene. but they just don't know yet whether he was, in fact, killed. that backs up some other thing we have been hearing from a yemeni official who said the operatives killed in that attack have not been identified. if he was killed it's important because of his technical capabilities. he was said to be the top bombmaker for al qaeda in the arabian peninsula, so his loss would be a blow. he was behind the thwarted christmas day bombing when the underwear bomber tried to blow up that plane headed into detroit in 2009. he was also behind a plot later on in late 2010 to put explosives on printer cartridges and put them on cargo planes headed into the u.s. if he is dead, this is a blow to them. >> athena, you bring up great points, something that we all
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remember. and it certainly changed the way security is at airports. are we hearing anything about the white house and are they reacting to the drone attacks that reportedly took these men out, if, in fact, they did. >> certainly we know that anwar al awlaki was killed. the president spoke about that yesterday. he said the death of al awlaki is a major blow to al qaeda's most active operational affiliate. aqap was behind these big attempts we have heard of lately. so killing al awlaki is a big blow to them. he said it marks another significant milestone in the broader effort to defeat al qaeda and it's affiliates. so we have that larger reaction. we have not had a reaction about people like al asiri because we are still trying to -- they're looking into what happened regarding him. >> switching gears a bit, let's talk about president obama, what he's doing tonight. the president has said right now, as of now, he supports civil unions, but not same-sex
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marriage. tonight he is addressing thousands on that topic. >> well, that's right. he will go to a dinner, the human rights campaign. their 15th international dinner. nearly 3,000 people will be there. we expect it to be a good reception for him. the human rights campaign endorsed his re-election a couple months ago. they don't expect to hear him make any news on the marriage topic. we heard from the president that he is evolving on that topic. i wouldn't expect big announcements today. you probably can expect to hear the president tick through some of his accomplishments. namely the repeal of don't ask don't tell. but i expect it to be a positive reception there from a lot of supporters at the human rights campaign. there are other groups, the log cabin republicans and others who say, hey, this is basically a big rally. they want to see the president come out more firmly in support
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of gay marriage. >> the repeal of don't ask don't tell, i can see that getting standing ovation tonight. athena jones, thank you. cnn will bring you the president's speech tonight live around 7:30 p.m. eastern time. all right. imagine having to face a judge because you failed to predict this earthquake that killed hundreds of people. it is happening to a half dozen scientists. that story after the break. also american student amanda knox may learn this monday whether she will be free from a prison in italy. her parents have been waiting for years. it is a murder case that has drawn international attention. ♪
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checking headlines from around the world. amanda knox could learn her fate as soon as monday in a murder case that's drawn international attention. you may remember her. the american student, she is appealing her murder conviction in italy. there she is. she was found guilty two years ago of killing her roommate brutally, meredith kercher and sentenced to 26 years in prison. her lawyers say she's innocent. prosecutors say amanda knox and a former boyfriend are killers and their conviction should stand. her mom, amanda's mom said she has hope but is not celebrating yet. the trial of seven people accused of manslaughter in italy in connection with the 2009 earthquake has been delayed to the middle of the month. the defendants were members of a government panel that met on march 31, 2009 to address concerns about recent seismic activity. they are accused of giving "a rough generic and ineffective assessment of seismic risk."
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one week later a quake struck that killed 300 people. now they're paying for it a city near the epicenter is asking for $68 million in damages. thousands of civilians are fleeing the fierce battles near sirte, libya. groups are trying to deliver desperately-needed supplies to the city without luck. a red cross boat had to turn away from sirte because of the violence. some 5,000 fighters loyal to moammar gadhafi are thought to still be in the city. sirte is gadhafi's hometown and one of the last places held by his supporters. all right. we are switching gears. imagine this -- a marriage with an expiration date. almost like leasing a car. a bill in mexico city would allow engaged couples to decide how long their marriage will last. more traditional couples can choose until death do us part for their contract. those who don't want to be tied
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down can pick as few as two years. the bill is designed to solve the problem of painful and costly divorces by letting marriages end easily. the catholic church, as you can imagine, are not for it. they call it absurd. next a tear jerker to put it mildly at a texas rangers baseball game. we'll explain after the game. but first -- in a recent international test, 15-year-olds in the u.s. ranked 25th in math and 17th in science out of 34 wealthy nations. not so good. china had the top scores, but south korea, japan and finland were among others topping the u.s. sesame street has made a goal of getting kids learning about these topics called s.t.e.m. christine romans met with up with of the show's stars and producers to find out what it's all about, including elmo. >> elmo what does s.t.e.m.? >> that's hard. what does s.t.e.m.?
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>> well, remember, it's science, technology, engineering and the m is the easy one -- >> math. >> there you go. >> do you like that. >> elmo likes math. elmo likes to count. >> can you count for any. >> one, two, three, four, five -- >> is it fun? >> yes. you can use it when you're cooking. if you're going to use two eggs or three eggs, stuff like that. >> why is it important to get kids excited about s.t.e.m., science, technology, engineering and math? why is "sesame street" trying to make this part of the series this year? >> as a nation, we realize we're falling behind others. it's always been sesame street's tradition to give kids a head start, leg up. when you boil down the curriculum, it's perfect for preschoolers because it's about asking questions and investigating and experimenting. >> experimenting. >> right. that's how you learn. >> experimenting. >> it's a big word, elmo.
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>> you've learned words like i'm told you learned about amphibian and balance? >> and ingredient and liquid. yeah. >> why are you learning these words? >> because they are really cool words. it's really fun to learn what they mean. >> you also learned engineer. what's an engineer? >> when you build something. you're an engineer. >> so it's creating. >> creating. >> not necessarily static numbers, math and tables, but something you're trying to show kids is part of learning and part of life. >> it is. it's very physical. s.t.e.m. is fun. it's physical fun. it's about testing out things. any questions kids have we encourage parents not to answer the questions that kids have did, but explore the answers with their kids together. who does not love elmo? this generation of preschoolers may thank elmo and his friends in adulthood. demand for s.t.e.m. jobs is expected to grow by 70% by 2018. for more information about
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welcome back. there were a lot of tears at the texas rangers baseball game. it was not because of the score. it is so sad. the tears were at the start of
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friday's playoff game when the 6-year-old son of rangers fan shannon stone threw out the first pitch. take a listen. >> ladies and gentlemen, throwing out the ceremonial first pitch for game one of the -- >> it was the first time cooper stone had been back to the rangers ballpark since his dad fell out of the stands trying to catch a ball for his son. that is cooper stone. look at the hugs. that was his dad. the 20-foot drop killed the firefighter. you have to wonder is this the right time for the boy to return to the place where he lost so much? he lost his dad. joining me now is dr. wendy walsh, human behavior expert, co-host on "the doctors" now and a prend to mfriend to me. his dad died in july. what i would think, not being an expert as you are, that maybe this will bring closure to cooper in terms of losing some of the guilt that it wasn't this
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little boy's fault. what do you think? >> you know, as traumatic as it might be to throw out that pitch and go to the stadium again, the time to do it is when he's young, before he's developed years of fears or anxiety or a kind of post traumatic stress disorder around stadiums, groups of people. i'm sure his family has worked closely with therapists to help him through the grieving process and this is a final stage of desensitizization. traumatic, yes, but the time to do it is now, not when he's 35. >> i can't imagine the guilt from the baseball player who threw up the pitch to the dad. this is a tragic accident. there it is. look at that hug. brings tears to my eyes. it's so sad. i think you're right. it's a good time now before he gets too old, the little boy. >> exactly. prevent him from developing fears around stadiums, around groups of people. around cheering crowds, all those things that could be
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debilitating to him later on. >> from great behavior to rude behavior. i think all of us have seen bad customer service out there. some of us put is on youtube. one-third of people experience rude behavior. let's look at this. >> how do you figure? aren't you supposed to try them on so you get the right side? >> one of each color? >> yeah. >> have you shop lifted before? >> i'm asking the question. >> this one's got a little bit of sass. is this how you treat all your customers? >> just you, buddy. >> wendy, i know everyone has a bad day. it's true. we should try not to take it out
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on other people. should you say something on the spot if you're in a store? should you hold it in and leave the store? what do you think? >> no, you absolutely should say something, because at the corporate level, companies need to know why certain stores are losing money and not being productive. sometimes it's because there are these toxic employees. we've been a casual culture any way. you know, casual attire, in casual language. i think the only place where you get first class service now is those five-class hotel industries that even teach them my language. my pleasure, right this way. may i help you. we have to get back to that if we're hoping to get the business we want. >> the ritz carlton hotel, i believe, even has a whole schooling on how to treat people. even in a dental office they can be rude to you and people won't go back because of it. a good friend of mine said i'm not going back there. they're mean to me. >> you have to vote with your
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checkbook. >> exactly. vote with your checkbook. we will talk about this. it's baffling. a new phone app called is my son gay. 20 questions get you to answer questions like does he like football? does he take a long time do his hair? does he like musical comedies? the french developer says it's meant to be funny. it's not funny. those are my words what is your take on this one, wendy? >> we have to remember that all comedy is tragedy viewed from across the street. it depends on how wide that street is for you to find the humor in it. the problem with this is this subject matter is highly sensitive here in america, especially right now with so many young teen suicides taking place. besides this, it's not even psychologically based and it doesn't test for the right things, it's full of stereotypes. if anything it might vaguely test if someone is a more feminine male, but that has nothing to do with sexual orientation. that's the problem. they are lumping gender role in
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there with sexual orientation. and with some light questions that really don't have psychological base. >> exactly. at the end of the day, if you take too long do your hair, don't like football, so be it. >> exactly. >> always great to see you. thanks. >> good to see you. the u.s. issues a new security warning following a drone attack that killed a top al qaeda leader.
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i'm susan hendricks. checking the headlines, the u.s. government believes the killing of a high al qaeda leader in yemen could provoke revenge attacks for americans. a cia drone attack killed al awlaki and others on friday. t in just about two hours, president obama will appear before thousands of gay activists. he is giving the keynote speech at the human rights campaign dinner. president obama is coming off a major victory for gay rights with the repeal of the military's don't ask don't tell going into effect less than two weeks ago. many advocates are disappointed that he hasn't supported
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same-sex marriage. we'll carry his speech live at 7:00 p.m. on cnn. the case of two missing people in california has been solved by a family who took matters into his own hands. the children of 68-year-old david lavau found him 200 feet down a ravine on thursday in the national forest. lavau crashed his car last week when they had not heard from him for five days they searched themselves and helped pinpoint lavau's last cell signal. >> we stopped at every ravine and look over every hill and my brother got out of the car and kept scream and the next thing we heard dad say help, help. >> they found him. lavau is recovering at a hospital. he ended up near another wrecked car with a dead man inside. authorities believe the body to be an 88-year-old melvin gelfan, the guy who died in the car next
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to him. new images of casey anthony from the moment she learned remains had been found in the search for her 2-year-old daughter caylee. if you look closely, you can see she's literally bent over in pain, crying. the security videos from a county jail medical facility back in 2008, it shows casey anthony hunched over, rocking back and forth after seeing the news on tv. about a week later the remains were identified as her daughter, caylee. anthony's attorneys had this video sealed for trial claiming it was inflammatory, but a judge overturned that ruling on friday, clearing the way for the release now. that's why you're seeing it. it's the first day of october, today, and you can feel it across much of the country. we like it, right? cooler weather is hitting the east. meteorologist jacqui jeras joins me now. we know how hot this summer was and how wet in the northeast. they don't need more rain. and you have video of chicago >> let's start there.
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incredible pictures if you have not seen this yet. big waves on lake michigan. we had this upper level low pressure system, so those winds were over the lake and there were joggers who got caught up in it. nothing seriously from what i understand. they tried to block off this whole area, but people either didn't get the message or ignored them and went for a jog any way. he goes right into the waves, they knock him back down. the winds were gusting as strong as 50 miles per hour and some of the wave heights were over 12 feet. incredible conditions on lake michigan there yesterday. today that same system is still out there. it's across the northeast, throughout the ohio valley and into the appalachians. susan talked about that cool air out there. so cold in the higher elevations, talking the "s" word. a little bit of snow. seeing it in parts of west virginia, down to the carolinas, just over the mountain tops. the ground temperature is so warm that a lot of this is melting on contact.
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we could get a couple of inches before all is said and done. your travel is not too bad. just checked the airports, everything is running on time for the most part. the faa site is reporting that. we have sprinkles around new york city and boston. so be aware of that. on the backside of this thing, we cleared out with that cold front that will be really chilly tonight. talking about upper 20s to lower 30s with frost advisories in effect. if you're trying to save those mums or anything like that, bring them in for tonight. staying cool than average, about 10, 15 degrees across the east. we have a nice warm up here across the plains and rockies. 80s again tomorrow in montana. so we have the fall-like weather across the east but the opposite extreme in the west. >> if you want an excuse in chicago to not run, not to exercise, you have it. i'm scared of the waves. can't do it. good to see you. >> thanks. the president attends the human rights campaign dinner in less than two hours from now.
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congresswoman benny mcclullom will also be be there. we will talk to her and to see what she expects from the president. looking forward to that. e done y and responsibly. at exxonmobil we know the answer is yes. when we design any well, the groundwater's protected by multiple layers of steel and cement. most wells are over a mile and a half deep so there's a tremendous amount of protective rock between the fracking operation and the groundwater. natural gas is critical to our future. at exxonmobil we recognize the challenges and how important it is to do this right. ♪ whoa! hey! [ dog barks, growls ] ♪ whoa, watch out, little man. ♪ [ male announcer ] when you take away the worry, it's easy to enjoy the ride. hey, bud. hey, dad.
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less than two weeks ago the military's don't ask don't tell policy was wiped off the books. expect president barack obama to hit that detail hard when he appears tonight in front of thousands of gay and lesbian activists in about two hours from now. we'll be covering it. the president is the keynote speaker at the human rights campaign dinner in washington. minnesota congresswoman betty mccullom will be there. she joins us now. it's an honor to speak with you. thanks for taking the time. >> thank you for covering this speech. it's very important tonight. >> we're very excited about it. we'll be following it. the president got don't ask don't tell repealed which is huge, but he doesn't say that he supports gay marriage, you could put it. even governor chris christie from my homestate recently told piers morgan i support civil unions. it seems the pc thing to say, y
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i support civil unions, but they won't take that extra step to say they support gay marriage. do you think it's time president obama does that? >> the president will certainly speak for himself. i was very pleased at his strong support in making sure that our military men and women can all serve proudly, freely and with great equality in the military. i'm pleased by that the work that president obama is doing with our attorney general, eric holder, in making sure those parts of doma, which are offensive and unconstitutional, that the president will not be part and party of supporting unconstitutional actions against our citizens. president obama has taken a lot of positive steps forward. there are many to see.
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i'll have to let the president speak for himself. i've not had a conversation about this. >> repealing don't ask don't tell is huge for so many people, not only the military but military supporters as well and family members. do you believe that gay rights supporters are expecting too much too fast from president obama? that has been something that i have heard in the past. that they're expecting too much too soon. >> in the gay rights community and those of us who support gay rights there are many people who would like to see action move quicker. there's others who feel that positive steps have been taken forward, they're watching public opinion change on this. and as more states move forward affirmatively allowing gay marriage as part of, you know, of a civil ceremony of marriage, we will have to see what other states do in the future with that. i think we're seeing more and more states move towards full
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equality for loving partners. >> which is a good thing. you recently signed a letter to the irs to give better guidance to same-sex couples when they file their taxes. do you think president obama will touch on that tonight at all? >> i don't know. i would like to hear what we will do with the irs as we have states and the district of columbia that recognize gay couples in union of marriage. we need to make sure they're not discriminated against in the tax code federally. so there's a lot of confusion out there. and i would look towards the president's leadership in helping to straighten all that confusion out. >> congresswoman betty mccullom, thanks for joining us. we'll be following it. the president's speech, 7:20 p.m. eastern time. thanks again. appreciate it. >> you're welcome. coming up after the break, dr. sanjay gupta talks with "american idol" finalist casey abrams about the severe mental
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condition that threatened his career. we'll tell you about it. our 4 new rich & hearty soups really have people talking...
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the human factor. today we meet casey abrams, one of the top six contestants on this past season of "american idol." he said his medical struggles almost stopped his musical career before it started. >> reporter: you may remember casey abrams season ten of "american idol." what you may not know is that casey had to overcome a personal battle of his own. >> i was just studying music at college. i was getting stomach cramps, you know, just carrying my bass from one side of campus to the other. just wore me out. i had no energy. >> reporter: at 19 he was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease, ibd, a condition that can destroy the lining of intestines and increase your risk of colon cancer. >> to be honest, it was a kick in the butt. >> reporter: casey wasn't about to let the disease to get in the way of his musical aspirations. >> it got worse. i felt like i had to keep fighting and keep fighting. i felt like the little engine that could. i think i can, i think i can. i got to the top. >> reporter: the top 24, that is, on "american idol."
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it was a dream come true but his fight wasn't over. just days before his first television performance, the disease flared up and casey was rushed to the hospital. >> i'm out of the competition, that's what i'm thinking. the disease has won. you know, i'm -- i'm defeated. >> reporter: but casey recovered. and he returned to the show work his way all the way up to the top six. now, months later abrams is still learning how to live with his disease, but is powering through it, joining up with a pharmaceutical company to form a site where other ibd patients can share their stories. >> they're not on a tv show where millions of people are voting for you. it's humbling to know that i'm an inspiration to some people out there. i feel like i'm proof that you can accomplish your goals no matter what disease you have. >> reporter: his next challenge, that's much more fun. >> look out for a jazzy, maybe rocky type album, maybe some acting, we'll see.
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♪ any way you want it >> reporter: dr. sanjay gupta, cnn, reporting. >> maybe some acting. maybe we'll see him in the future. coming up, when we come back, we will examine high-profile legal cases making news, including the trial of dr. conrad murray accused of killing and the old man stopped and thought and said: free 'cause that's how it ought to be my brother credit 'cause you'll need a loan for one thing or another score 'cause they break it down to one simple number that you can use dot to take a break because the name is kinda long com in honor of the internet that it's on put it all together at the end of the song it gives you freecreditscore-dot-com, and i'm gone... offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com if you think even the best bed can only lie there. ask me what it's like when my tempur-pedic moves. talk to someone who owns an adjustable version of
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the er doctor who pronounced michael jackson doctor whoe pronounced michael jackson dead said he had signs of a dying heart and was clinically dead on arrival. he flat lined at the home where he was staying. ted rollins has a recap of all the drama of week one and a look ahead of week two of dr. conrad murray's involuntary manslaughter trial. >> reporter: week two of the trial will likely be picking up right where week one left off. you remember on friday we heard from the paramedics that reported to michael jackson's house after the 911 call was made. the paramedics told the jury that when they arrived, michael jackson was cold to the touch and that never throughout their resuscitation process did they
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ever feel a pulse or see one on the heart monitor. but, of course, the most damning evidence against murray from the paramedics is that they asked him what drugs were in jackson's body and murray never mentioned propothol. we'll extend the doctor's testimony early next week. and the doctors at ucla are going to tell much the same story as the paramedics. that they, too, asked murray what was in jackson's body. again, no mention of the drug at all. we'll likely start to hear from the detectives that were assigned to the case. they will determine or detail to the jury their investigation throughout this. they've been sitting in the courtroom throughout the week. jurors are starting to get to know them. they've been referred to a couple times by the attorneys. well now they'll really get to know them. they'll be on the stand for quite some time. later in the week, we may hear from two of dr. murray's girlfriends. one of the girlfriends lives
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here in the los angeles area. that was the apartment that dr. murray was sending the drugs to throughout this. we'll hear from her likely. and then we'll hear from the other girlfriend in houston, texas. this was the woman that dr. murray was on the phone with when he realized that michael jackson was in trouble. >> all right, our thanks to ted rolli rollins. testimony resumes on monday. we want to bring in holly hughes. she has been following this. she is a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. on the stand yesterday was a paramedic that was on the scene right after. he said that michael jackson was extremely thin. he says this guy has an iv in him. he says to dr. conrad murray, what's wrong with him? oh, nothing. nothing. all i gave him was a sedative. there is nothing wrong. so they tried, of course, to revive him being a paramedic.
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and he said there was a flat line. so how damaging is that testimony? >> this is so bad. it goes so bad. it goes to consciousness to guilt, susan. the first thing he said is this man is cold to the touch. when did this happen? and the doctor says to him, it just happened. just now. and he says i'm thinking in my head, that does not add up. then he says what did you give him? nothing. he says nothing at first. then the paramedic says, no, really, what did you give him? he said a little sedative. he said that's not making sense. i'm looking on the floor and there are vials everywhere. he says to him, he's passed away. he's dead. and at this point conrad murray becomes insistent, no, he's not. you have to attempt resuscitative measures. you have to take him out of here. from a legal standpoint that, is so damaging because what the prosecution is going to point out in the closing is he did not want michael jackson declared dead in that bedroom because you know what would have happened,
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susan? they would have left the body there, closed off that scene. the medical examiner would have come to the house. we would have had photographs of that poor man dead in his bed. we would have seen all of the evidence littered about the floor and there would have been no cleanup of the crime scene because it would have been roped off. >> by the way, no mention of the brug ever by the way in that room. ever, at all. holly hughes, so much information. after the break, we're going to talk about the so-called underwear bomber about to go on trial. guess what? he's his own attorney. holly hughes will talk about this one with me. stay with us. l bloody awful. she told tiffany, stephanie, jenny and becky that she was coming to a place like this! but somebody didn't book with travelocity, with 24/7 customer support to help move them to the pool daddy promised! look at me, i'm swimming! ♪ [ gnome ] somebody, get her a pony! [ female announcer ] the travelocity guarantee. if your booking's not right, we'll help make it right, right away.
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we're joined again by holly hughes. there is a major blow to the terrorist organization. among other things, he is credited with masterminding the failed christmas day attack we have come to know as the underwear bomber. he goes on trial in detroit october 11th, i believe it begins. he fired his lawyers, plans to represent himself. what is he thinking here? we've heard this in the past. it always seems to backfire, holly. >> absolutely. there's a reason the old cliche
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survived, he who represents himself as a fool for a client. in this case, a fool for a lawyer. the problem with these type of folks is their ego is so massive, they think they can convince everybody their point is right. we saw it with warren jeffs in the trial. he was not going to let somebody else speak for him. these men feel that they are empowered by some religious authority. so between their religious zeile and egos, they get themselves in trouble. they don't know the procedures. they end up frustrating the jury and the judge and it turns into a circus like atmosphere. remember warren jeffs it issing there silent, i'm not going to speak. >> each lawyer gets a certain amount of time. he took every minute. the judge was very smart. dent want this coming back and gave him every second allowed to by law. >> absolutely. they have a right to represent
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themselves. now every smart judge we see, and it's happening here, will appoint a real attorney who's, you know, actually a member of the bar to sit there and to assist them so that they don't get in horrible trouble. again, so that their rights are protected. most folks who want to represent themselves don't know what rights they v thereforhave. therefore, they trample on the process. a judge has to be really, really careful here and the prosecutor has to be very careful. it is very hard. >> holly, i know as an attorney, you try your best to give the best advice. some people just don't listen to that advice. again, this trial so-called underwear bomber starts on october 11th. we'll be following it. holly hughes as always, great advice. great information for us to decipher through all of the cases. thank you so much. >> thanks, susan. i'm susan hendricks in atlanta. "the situation room" begins right now. stay with us. >> it's been called

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