tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN October 5, 2011 12:00am-1:00am EDT
>> i have a traditional family. but i'm also modern. i just want love. >> love. with a man of her very, very specific choice. maybe one of these you see backstage. maybe not. ♪ who won the world >> that's right. girls run the world. on that note, here is piers morgan tonight. prison. she was convicted of killing her roommate meredith kercher. that conviction was overturned. a different view of recent events. british sympathies predominantly about the kercher family. they're still trying to come to terms with the latest twist in the case as amanda knox comes home to seattle. a dramatic press conference just moments ago, amanda knox was overcome with emotion.
>> they're reminding me to speak in english because i'm having problems with that. i'm really overwhelmed right now. i was looking down from the airplane, and it seemed like everything wasn't real. what's important for me to say is just thank you to everyone who's believed in me, who's defended me, who has supported my family. i just want -- my family's the most important thing to me right now. and i just want to go and be with them. so thank you for being there for me.
>> emotional scene. so amanda knox just a few moments ago. she arrived back in america. joining us now in seattle live is cnn's drew griffin. a pretty relieved and obviously very emotional knox family. where do they go from here? what are the next few days going to hold for them? >> well, i think, piers, they're going to try to literally hide, to find some home where the media won't be staking out and watch every move that amanda knox makes. in that statement she gave, she's still extremely emotional. remember, she's had no contact with the media or the press while she was in that italian prison. the italians wouldn't allow it. so this, although we've been watching this case for four years, is all new to her, to face this kind of media pressure. the family's quite concerned about that. >> i'm also fascinated to hear her speak in english. we've heard her in italian, obviously in the courtroom, but it was a moment where she had to almost be reminded to speak in her mother language.
as you say, very emotional. whatever your view of how this has all unraveled, it would take a pretty hard heart not to understand that this girl is still very young, has been through one hell of an ordeal. >> yes. she was just a young college girl. she was barely in italy. she spoke no -- really, no discernible italian when this whole thing went down. then she was whisked off to prison and for the past four years her life has been in this kind of a frozen status. so like i said, the family -- i talked to them. they're very concerned about her emotions. they were hoping, piers, that there would be some kind of a six-week or so grace period where she could go dark. i would be amazed if the media in general stayed away from her for that long. >> well, i agree. incredible media scenes down there. drew griffin. now out to thomas wright, a close friend of the knox family,
plans to celebrate with them this evening. let me say for you and all close friends and family of amanda, an incredibly emotional and exciting day, i would imagine. >> yes, piers, a very moving thing to see. what strikes me more than anything is the bond that she mentioned with her family was really the thing that carried her through here. they made a commitment at the very beginning of this ordeal when they saw it was going to get very complicated and difficult to make sure there was a family member in perugia at all times for her so that the two days a week when they were allowed one hour to visit her, there would always be a family member who would come into the prison, who would hold her hand, would talk to her about how she was feeling. the other thing they did that was quite remarkable, they negotiated a weekly phone call. this will really help her transition to the re-entry process because every saturday morning, a phone call would come to the kitchen, edda mellas, her mother's kitchen and it would come from amanda. amanda would share how she was feeling.
at the beginning of that process, the officials said it could only be the parents or the immediate family, but as the time wore on, one year, two year, three year, more and more people began to show up in the kitchen, and they began to pass the phone around. even though the calls weren't more than ten minute, on some days she was able to hear the voices of so many that cared about her. she shared her own emotions. some days it was difficult and she was sharing unpleasant things. some days joyous thing, stories that happened, things that happened inside the prison. the measure of experience inside the prison was that when she came back with the verdict, with the acquittal to the prison, cheers erupted from all of her fellow prisoners. that's an example of the type of person that she was and how she was seen by her fellow prisoners. >> one of the more emotional moments of that press conference was when one of her lawyers
mentioned meredith kercher's name and you can see amanda knox wincing even at the mention of her friend, reminded that it was a great friend of hers. she's lost a friend as well. it's easy to think that. what do you think she'll be thinking tonight about the kercher family? because they've been very dignified since this result came through. yet back in britain where i am at the moment, there's a lot of disquiet about what happened. they feel that amanda knox is being celebrated perhaps a little too enthusiastically given that this family is still grieving for their lost daughter. what are your views of the family friend of amanda? >> i think that while i know that amanda liked meredith and they were good friends. that's why they became roommates. that's why they decided to live together. amanda felt great emotion about what happened to meredith. she kept a diary in the first 30 days that she was in prison. you can see it all through the diary. this is awful what's happened to
meredith. i wish she were here. all of those mentions of meredith just showed that even today, you can see, she cared very much about her friend and continues to care about her friend. >> well, you can judge somebody by their friends and family, then amanda's chosen pretty well, i'd say. because you've all been extraordinarily stoic towards her. i hope you have a good evening this evening. >> thank you, piers. now that amanda knox is home, you might think that's the end of the story. but the prosecution said they will appeal the reversal of her conviction. the reveral is reversed, that will raise lots of legal issues. joining us from los angeles to explore the possibility is noted defense attorney gloria allred. a gripping case with many twists and turns here. are you from a purely legal point of view satisfied that justice has been done now? >> 100% i believe that justice has been done.
i'm glad that she never gave up hope, because if hope dies, then that's the end for someone in prison. i think the italian system obviously is a very difficult one, it's a very challenging one. it's one with which i have some experience having had a case in italy years ago involving the death of an american woman in italy. but in any event she's now going to -- there will be an appeal by the prosecution, but it's going to be on very narrow grounds. it will be on legal issues. i think her chances of not having this lower court decision reversed are very, very good. and i just hope that she can lead -- she'll lead a different life, a different life than she would ever have led, obviously, if this had never happened to her. it couldn't have happened, obviously, without the support of her friends and her family and all those many supporters and the experts who became part of her legal case. >> gloria, thank you very much.
>> mickey ward's a contributing editor for "vanity fair." the british press have been pretty scathing about amanda knox and this verdict. why do you think it is? is it a question of meredith kercher is british and amanda knox is american and there's a kind of geographic thing here where the british feel a greater affinity perhaps to the kercher family and their case? >> no, i don't, piers. i think it's simply a case, although justice may have been done, we don't know what the real story is and the kerchers don't know what the real story is. they don't know what happened to their daughter. and that's the problem. >> yeah, i mean, this has been my slight disquiet i think about the manner of all these celebrations for amanda knox coming home is that everyone seems to be forgetting that she has been convicted and sentenced of defaming somebody who she accused of this crime, and if you remember what she initially said, she said she was there in the building when the crime happened, then changed her story.
do you think she emerges with a clean character or with a stain on her character? >> i think she emerges with many questions, frankly. i don't think anybody knows exactly what happened that night in perugia. and that is a problem. i think the worse thing she could possibly do now is to capitalize on it and make a lot of money. if she does that, then the british press will be all over her, yes, piers. >> well, i think that's right. the british press are being criticized by american media for having paid for interviews in connection with this case before. i don't really share their unease over that. that's a pretty familiar practice for the british press over the last years that i've known it. >> yes, they do do it all the time. >> they are driven by a deep sense of injustice on the part of the kercher family who still don't know who killed their daughter or who's telling the truth here. >> well, i think that's a slightly more gray area because
i think that -- i read a blog about this for the huffington post today. i think that one of the problems with the legal system is that often, you know, justice gets done but the truth never gets told. and that is just the way the law works. >> gloria allred, let me bring you back in just finally here. again on the legal point, when she was found guilty and convicted and sentenced to a three-year sentence, not a small period of time by any means for this defamation, how seriously should we be taking that from a legal point of view? >> well, she's served -- it's time served. and i think that was the least of her problems. so i think the homicide, the issue there was the most important part. i might add that i differ with your prior guest. i wouldn't be surprised if she did a book and she did a movie and god bless her if she does. we all want to know what really happened. most of all her family has incurred enormous legal fees and
costs throughout this ordeal, her grandmother's mortgaged her home. they need to be able to have funds to basically get out of this hole that they're in because of what has happened. and i don't have any problem if she has a book or does a movie, and i think we want to know what happened. >> but does she know? >> does she know? she knows where she was. >> she knows where she was, but that's the problem with this story. is that everybody wants to know -- >> i would love to argue about this all night and we may get you back to argue about it but for now we'll leave it there. >> thanks, piers. up next my in depth interview and extraordinary conversation with victoria and joel osteen. fascinating encounter. america's most famous preacher and his wife. [ female announcer ] in the grip of arthritis, back, or back joint pain?
aspercreme breaks the grip, with maximum-strength medicine and no embarrassing odor. break the grip of pain with aspercreme. victoria and joel, welcome back. >> thanks, piers. >> only yesterday you were gracing me with your presence. now you've got this great new book "every day's a friday," how to be happier seven days a week. i'm thinking to myself you are the two happiest people i've ever met anyway. how could you possibly get any happier? >> i think we all can if we learn to, you know, what to ignore and certain battles not to fight. you know, i think we can all be improving and growing and happier. >> why fridays?
because when i came to new york in particular, i was horrified that on fridays my staff all came in dressed like people on the street because it was apparently dress-down friday. and i was like, what does that mean? it apparently means you dress badly and wear jeans and old t-shirts and things. to me i associate friday with this unkempt sort of misery. why have you selected friday as a great day of joy and s? >> studies show that people are happier on fridays. >> why? >> i think because people are looking for the weekends, looking forward to it, getting to relax, done with work. i also read where there's more heart attacks on monday than any other day. >> the stress of going back to work. >> yes. >> because most people don't enjoy their jobs? what about you? i look forward to mondays. i don't really like fridays because everything sort of winds down. you know, everything slows down. you're not really working as hard. i don't really like it. >> yeah, i'm the same way. because, of course, we work weekends.
i enjoy what we do. but not everybody's like that. the thought is in general, you've heard that, thank god it's friday. if we had the right perspective, we don't have to dread going to work even if it's not the perfect job. when you have the right perspective, hey, i'm alive, healthy, i got a lot right in my life, i can enjoy each day. maybe not jumping up and down but you can enjoy it. >> the book is about that you make your own decisions about your life and your life will be happier. is it as simple as that? lots of people through circumstance are not really in the position to do much about their lot in lie, are they? that's an easy thing to say and the critics will say, all right for you, joel, you're worth a hundred million dollars, what about the poor guy trapped in a factory job or something or maybe has no job who just through lack of opportunity and bad circumstance is unhappy because he can't get out of that? >> to me faith is about learning to be happy where you are. it doesn't take any faith when
the economy is great and you get good breaks. there are many people who it seems like they're stuck. but if you put your trust in god, you can be at peace and happy right where you are. if you don't get happy where you are, you probably won't get to where you want to be because these are tests you have to pass, as far as i'm concerned. you have to pass those tests and say god, i'm in a job and i don't like it, or i have medical problems. i'm going to be good to somebody, put a smile on my face anyway. to me you're releasing your faith and allows god to change things. >> do you believe fundamentally that money can make people happier. you're shaking your head. why? >> it helps. i've seen people who are very wealthy and they're unhappy. they don't have good relationships. they may even have bad health. >> i've met more unhappy rich people than poor people. and the reason i say that, i went to south africa. i went to the soweto townships. millions living in complete poverty. some of the happiest people i've ever met. their spirits were just alive
with happiness. i couldn't really understand it. i still don't really understand it. but it was a fact. i saw it with my own eyes. why is that? you must have been in many places like that over the years. why can poverty stricken people sometimes find joys in their lives? >> i think there's not so many distractions. they have their priorities where they love their family, they're with their family, they don't have a million things that are getting them off course. and they take every day for what it is, just the simple things in life, getting up and enjoying family time and not fighting a lot of the battles that we allow to steal our joy. >> does he ever get angry? >> angry? >> or is he always this content, happy chap. >> angry, no. is he content? yes. i think he chooses it. there's things that i'm sure are stressful -- >> what really flips him out? what gets his goat? >> i don't really think he flips out. but he likes things to be right, you know. and i've watched him when things aren't right. and he chooses to see the best in a situation.
he's always really great about finding what is right. because a lot of people have -- >> when's the last time you heard him shout? you've never heard him shout. >> no, if you live with me and you don't shout, you're pretty good. >> you're quite a live wire. i remember from our last interview. i imagine you can be quite lively, right? >> well, you know. i like to keep things hopping. >> do you have a temper? >> do i have a temper? i've grown out of my temper living with him. i don't have a temper. >> he really is this kind of bastion of calm, serenity. do you not shout at anybody? >> no, no, that's not my personalty. a lot is your personality. i've been like this my whole life. >> you've never shouted in your life? >> well, i probably have. you know. >> when was the last time? >> i can't remember. >> he doesn't shout. he doesn't really shout. but he does have a look. >> what's the look? >> it's like -- >> that's when you know. >> that's when it's like, okay, everybody, kids, let's go.
>> what frustrates and annoys you? what can ruin your friday? >> you know, i don't know if it would ruin my friday, but i like things to be right. i like organization. you know. you know, i like to -- i expect excellence, but not in the wrong sense, but i believe we're supposed to be excellent. if we put things into place and people aren't doing their job, there's some times you thing come on, guys, let's get going. i choose to believe to use that energy to make things right and not just to yell at people. >> what about a fistfight? >> never. >> never had. >> no. >> even as a kid. >> probably my brother. >> you would wrestle with your brother but never a fistfight. >> have you ever been punched in the face? >> no. >> never? >> never have. >> incredible life you've had. >> i've been blessed. >> you have been punched in the face? >> yes. >> you have? >> yes, many times. yeah. part of life's rich tapestry. i've missed out here.
i could have lived a life of total serenity. >> we all have challenges. the scripture calls it fighting the good fight of faith. that's when you know god's in control. i used to get frustrated when things weren't happening the way i wanted it to. i had everything worked out and my plans didn't go the way i wanted it to. now i've learned to say god, here's my plans for today. if it doesn't work out, i believe that you're in control and you're opening the right doors. what we don't hear a lot is sometimes god closes a door on purpose. i used to think, oh, god, that was a good opportunity, why didn't that work out? god knows what's right for each one of us. >> we had the tenth anniversary of 9/11 recently. it was extraordinary being in america. i was in new york after it happened and came back here. it is very hard to tell god fearing people who have prayed all their lives, it's very hard to tell them that they've lost relatives in that kind of thing that there is a merciful god. they just -- i've seen them be
interviewed particularly devout christians or muslims or all the denominations who perished on that day. what do you say to them? how do you explain that a just god can allow these kind of atrocities to happen, ruining so many lives? >> it's difficult, piers, but the world we live in is not a perfect world. we're living in a fallen world. and you know, to simplify it, god's given us all our free choice. we can do what we want to do. unfortunately, some people choose to do evil. god didn't make us as robots. it's hard to explain because god is good, obviously god could have stopped it, but he didn't. but there's much about faith that i don't understand. >> does your faith ever get dented? it sounds very unequivocal. i watch you on sunday mornings. you're an incredibly inspiring speaker. i've had relatives who renounced their catholic belief and their faith in god after the
holocaust, who lived through the war and just couldn't understand how any god could allow 5 million jews to be -- to have their lives taken in such a ghastly manner. it's hard to argue. i find it difficult. what do you say to people who come to you and say, i can't continue having this faith because some appalling thing has happened? >> you know what? that happens from time to time, but again i go back to the fact that having faith means you're going to have unanswered questions. that's what faith is all about. i can't explain why parents will come to me and their little child has cancer. i still believe god -- >> what do you say to them? >> i say god's got you in the palm of his hand. none of this is a surprise to god. you may be hurting, our haerts break with you. but we're going to pray with you and god will give you a strength that you've never felt before. if you turn to god and you don't get bitter and blaming god and give up on your dreams, i believe somehow, some way that god can bring good out of it. you'll never get your loved one
back, but god can make the rest of your life still very fulfilling. >> have you ever had your faith dented? >> well, no. i never have. you know, it's like what joel is saying, a lot of times we want to see everything happen. but god's a supernatural god. and he can bring grace and comfort into your life just by a state of peace and joy. >> how do you have moments for example when something's bad happened in your life or something that's really affected you badly and you prayed to god to have that situation end in a happy way and then it hasn't, your prayers haven't been answered. in that circumstance, do you not feel slightly let down? >> well, you know what? i can't tell god what to do. i can ask god what to do. i can ask him to do things for me. i know in my core he has my best interests at heart. it may not look good, but somehow some good can come out of it.
you can't bring people back, you can't bring things maybe that you've lost back. but god has a way of getting you out of yourself and into a new place in your life. >> let's take a little break and come back and talk to you about executions which is a burning issue right now. many people believing that america should now join most of the rest of the world and abandon executions. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. executor of efficiency. you can spot an amateur from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national.
i can do what it says i can do. today i will be taught the word of god. i boldly confess my mind is alert, my heart is receptive, i will never be the same. >> i'm with joel and victoria osteen. do you ever watch yourself back on tv? >> i do. i still ed etd my sermons. i edit with somebody now but i did that 17 years for my dad. after i speak my sermon on sundays, i like to edit it because i know where i messed up
and how i can do better. you know how you do with editing now. >> i watch you. it is almost always word perfect. you have an extraordinary style. how have you developed that? >> well, my mother has had a great memory. when i started, my dad just spoke extemporaneously. i couldn't do that. i had to write down what i would say. i go over it two or three hours. i get it so much in me, it can come out pretty good now. >> there's pressure because you have so many people tuning in for these sermons. you can't get them wrong, can you? every word gets analyzed. >> you do. it make meese very responsible in what i'm going to say because people are going to -- you know, some people are making decisions based off of what you're saying. you have to say, okay, how is this coming across? this is how i mean it, so i try to think through it a lot. >> there was a reisn't survey, "new york times" named you one of the most influential figures on twitter. you beat lady gaga, justin
bieber, rachel maddow, arianna huffington. some of the big tweeters themselves. because they deemed that your influence which they assessed by the number of your tweets that were retweeted actually exceeded all of them. that shows you have proper influence and i would say power. >> well, i felt very honored when i heard that. but we found, piers, people come to us for inspiration for those little quotes. so we try to stay really focused on what can i speak to people that will help improve their day? my tweets are not about what i did that day. it's always about something that they can use. when you give people good material, they like to pass it on. because the fact is there's a lot pushing us down these days. there's a lot of negativity. when you say make somebody else's day and god will make your own day, you give them small tidbits like that. >> one of the things in the book is forgiveness of sins is one of the central tenets of christianity in many ways.
you're a forgiving man. and your view of this. what is your view of state executions. the troy davis thing which happened recently where by common consent there was enough doubt that that man could not be 100% said to have committed the crime, certainly no dna evidence. what do you think of the whole issue? >> it's a complicated issue. i haven't thought a whole lot about it. but of course, i'm for second chances and mercy. yet the flip side is there's consequences for what we've done. so i don't know what my total stance is because i'm so full of -- >> a life for a life? >> well, i don't know that that's -- you know, it's hard -- >> i don't think you can say this. i've had this debate with you before about these things. you can't be the man who influences millions of people and sit on the fence about key moral issue like that. key moral stroke ethical issues. you've got to have a view, haven't you? >> we have a justice system and
i believe in our system of justice, number one. part of me, the human part of me, the merciful part of me is, wow, let's just give everybody a chance and if there is any -- it's hard for me to say, yeah, let's kill this person because he's so bad. they can be redeemed. they can be forgiven, yet they still have to be put to death. that's hard for me. i don't know what is the right thing. there are smarter people than me that make all the laws. >> two-thirds of all executions in america are taking place in five states, most in southern states near where you're from including texas. texas may even be the highest in terms of executions for any state in america. so i guess the part of your issue, unless i'm wrong, is that a lot of your brethren that come to watch you presumably would support the death penalty? >> sure, i think so. i don't know for a fact, but i think many people do. and, you know, i just again, i don't know the right answer. it's hard for me to tell someone
to be put to death. >> if you came out particularly in somewhere like texas, you joel osteen came out and said, enough. i don't think we can continue with this particularly based on the facts. my problem with the whole death penalty debate are the statistics are alarming. over 100 people in america on death row have had their sentences commuted by new evidence. 17 of them because dna evidence proved they didn't commit the crime. when you heathat, surely you begin to think that this isn't right. and you have a lot of influence in your state. people will be watching this thinking, well, what does he think? is he in favor of state killings or is he actually against it? because they might take their lead from you. >> well, piers, i don't know that i'm the one to give the final answer on that. >> you're the perfect guy to ask. >> yes, piers, because i'm not studied on it and i stay focused on what i feel i'm called to do.
i'm careful about -- it's a more complicated issue than that than to just throw that issue out there and create a lot of waves. >> if i asked you about abortion, what would you say? >> i abortion i feel stronger about. >> what's your view? >> that every baby should live. that god's created that life. >> there's a contradiction between the sanctity of life with an abortion and the sanctity of life with somebody who may or may not have committed a crime. >> sure. >> should there not be a more consistent view. >> there could be. when you say may or may not, that's the troublesome thing when we don't know for sure. >> how can you know for sure really? very few cases are completely clear cut and really just comes down to a general principle whether in a modern civilized society, you know, especially in a country with millions, tens of millions go to church every sunday. they look to religious leaders to say what should we be thinking? they're all a bit confused.
i know i do this to you when you come on, but i feel like you need to be more definitive. >> well, if i could, i would. but let me study it and i'll come back with a great answer some day for you. >> let's have a little break and i'll come back and pin you to the floor on another issue where i tried to pin you to the floor before and see if your views have changed on homosexuality in light of the fact that you have five states in america who now support same-sex marriage. i'd race down that hill without a helmet.
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back with my guests the osteens. another contentious issue, joel, because last time you came on this show, you were excellent guests. this happened. i want to talk about this after because it made a few headlines. yes is homosexuality a sin in your eyes? >> yes, i always believed that the scriptures show this is a sin. but i'm not one of those who are out there to bash homosexuals and tem them that they're terrible people and all that. >> so i suppose the obvious question is we did that back in january.
has your position changed at all after that? because it raised a lot of headlines, a lot of controversy. since then more states have endorsed same-sex marriage. it's becoming much less of a prohibitive kind of issue than it used to be. what's your view now? >> you know, piers, it never really changes because mine is based out of the scripture. that's what i believe that the scripture says, that homosexuality was a sin. i believed it before and i still believe it now. i will reiterate what i said. i'm not mad at anybody, i don't dislike anybody. but respecting my faith and believing in what the scripture says, that's the best way i can interpret it. >> but shouldn't the scripture be dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age? we were talking before about the issue of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, not everything in the scriptures really is, in my view, conducive to modern life. like everything else, doesn't it have to move with the times?
and for people like you to interpret it in a way that evolves when you're known as a very progressive preacher. >> sure, well, i want to be progressive, but sometimes when i read it, i can't see how you would change that just like you wouldn't change some other main things in the scripture. i don't see how that -- if you don't have a basis of truth -- and that's what i base mine off of, the scripture. everybody else doesn't and i don't fault them if they don't. this is how i choose to lead my life. i think personally 200 years from now the scripture's still going to say that. >> but the law of the land may not and it may not in your state inspect and the law of the land is changing fast. your argument about executions was when it was the law of the land in somewhere like texas. and what if texas, an unlikely place to bring this in but it may change with enough pressure, texas brings in a law that same-sex marriage is permissible, how would you feel then if it's the law of the
land? >> i'm going to respect the law and respect gay people like i do now. we have plenty of people that come to our church and friends that are gay, so i'll respect that. where it puts a difficult situation is me being a christian pastor believing the crip steuer, it would be against my faith to marry two gay people. >> you wouldn't do that. >> no, that's where the rub comes in of people like myself. it's not that i'm against anybody or if people want to live together, that's up to them. but my faith, when we say marriage, i think about, piers, all through the bible, there's hundreds of marriages but none of them are shown as between the same sex. again, i'm not against anything, but i just believe that's what the bible teaches. >> so you feel a bit uneasy that the last person i heard speaking like this was mahmoud ahmadinejad who says there are no gay people in iran and is a terrible sin and curse. what do you think about this gay
marriage debate? can you ever imagine attending a gay marriage between two people who come to your church if they invited you? >> i think if it was that easy, then we would have figured it out by now. it's been overthrown, states go for it. so it's very difficult for people -- >> so would you accept one or not? >> would i accept one? >> two gay people who attend your church invite you to your wedding? >> sure, i would go. >> you would? >> well, if i had time i would. >> if they were friends of mine and i respect them, i would certainly go. >> you would watch two people you think are sinners committing the ultimate sin? >> i'm looking at it i don't think it's the ultimate sin. but i'm looking at it out of respect to that person. gets convoluted, but i'm looking at it as respect to that person. >> could you in your position actually actively encourage people to go through a same-sex marriage? could you be photographed at such an event? wouldn't that cause you problems?
>> well, you know, it's such a hypothetical. >> not really. because you said lots of gay people go to your church. so it might happen. >> well, i haven't been to any weddings lately to begin with, but i'm talking about somebody who was dear to us. i'm not going to disrespect somebody that's dear to us and say, you know what? you're not good enough for us or something like that. that's the way i would see it. now, i'm not going to just run off and attend certain marriages just to make a statement because that's not who i am and that's not what i stand for. again, don't look down on those people. >> let's talk a little more about politics. i know it's a bit of a minefield for you. i'm curious what you think of all the republican writers at the moment, who's been catching your eye as potentially a leader for america.
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but of all the republican runners and writers in the race so far to be the nominee. who do you think is the most impressive leader potentially that you've seen. >> they all look like great leaders to me. >> that's a terrible answer. >> i can't pick out one. governor perry is a governor of texas, a friend of ours. i've never met him. a great gofb fr. i never met mitt romney, but he looks fantastic. smart people. i can go down the row. i don't know. >> rick perry won't be a friend much longer if you keep saying how fantastic mitt romney is. you have to back the right horse, eh? >> to me i'm taking it all in like everybody else. i'm just an outsider looking in. >> you are a republican, aren't you? you have to be. >> i voted both ways before. >> really? >> i'm conservative. that's who i've always been. >> you're very conservative, aren't you? >> i like to vote on the candidate. >> who do you like? >> who do i like? i'm still watching.
>> right now if you had to put an x by someone's name? >> good thing i don't have to now because it's too early in the race. >> is rick perry your kind of guy? >> he's a fantastic governor. he's done amazing things for texas. so let's see, let's see how he fares with all this. i think he'll do well. >> what do you think are the key issues in society today? what do you think people most care about? >> i think are you talking about political issues? >> anything. people come to your church. >> their relationships, finances and their health. >> i would say that's what most people care most about. do you think politicians today are doing the right kind of thing or are they too busy squabbling with each other in washington to understand as clearly as you just defined it what the real issues are for people in america? >> yes, i think they're squabbling too much. >> what's that? >> yes, i think they're squabbling too much. >> they spent a lot of time shouting at each other. you just said that you don't shout. when you see them rantding and raving and being deliberatively
obstructive to getting things down, what do you think? >> i would think as most americans i would hope that they would work together. what i see that's difficult these days is any kind of compromise. it's hard to get 100% of what you want. just like some of these issues we're talking about. it's getting difficult for people to say nothing will get done if we don't come together. that would be my hope that we would, you know, but it's difficult. >> are you comfortable with a mormon becoming president? mitt romney or jon huntsman. they're both mormons. would you be comfortable with that? >> i would be comfortable -- that would not stop me from voting for somebody. i would look at the total candidate, though. what's their experience, what's their education, what do they stand for? i don't think i would vote for somebody just because they're a mormon or anything like that. >> are there aspects to mormonism which you find offensive? >> i don't know a lot about it.
here i go again -- >> how can you keep saying that? >> i don't know a lot about it. >> i bet you do. you don't want me to think you know a lot about it, otherwise it makes the argument more difficult. >> i haven't studied it. i hear things from time to time. there are things about the mormon religion that i don't agree with. >> like what? >> there's different degrees in religion, too. just like being a christian. these people think it's okay to do this, this and this and they're christian. like you say, the catholic church, they won't let you do this, and this and this. it's degrees of how you practice that religion. >> what are the things about mormonism that are awkward for you? >> i don't know enough about their beliefs to point it out, articulate it well. here's what i believe. mitt romney says that he believes jesus is the son of god, he believes jesus is the savior, to me those are the fun additional thing that when look at somebody, i don't know what
all the other church doctrine is. >> do you vote for a jewish candidate? >> sure, i could vote for a jewish candidate. they're god's chosen people in the scripture. i mean, sure i could. >> so you don't mind particularly what religion -- could you vote for a muslim candidate? >> i think i could. i would have to look at all of it. it's so hypothetical, if we're talking about america, 90% of america is christian. i'm sure that i would find someone that more shares my beliefs and educated and qualified. so it's hard for me to go there because i don't think we'll come to that point. >> what do you make of what's going on with palestinians and israelis right now? >> it's a difficult situation. we pray for peace over there. we stand with israeli people. our hearts go out to the palestinian people as well.
they want peace. they want to live their life in victory. it's a difficult thing. >> you both went out there recently i think to israel, right? >> we did. we went out in february. >> tell me about that. how did you find it? >> we found it very peaceful. it's amazing, a country that has been under such conflict for so long, you know, you hear stories in america like it's dangerous and, you know, you see like the worst. but you go in there and the people are very solid. they're very peaceful. they have a lot of confidence in the fact that they're going to be okay. yes, they want to fight for what they feel like is rightfully theirs. but it was quite interesting. we had a night of hope over there. and we had the auditorium was full. we had a wonderful time. and we thought it was a very fascinating, very -- it really brings the bible alive to go to the places where jesus walked, where he prayed with the disciples were and the sea of gal laya, we found it fascinating. >> do it worry that so many areas of conflict in the world are religion prompted?
>> well, i don't -- >> sort of goes against the grain, doesn't it in terms of the theory of these things. they all turn out to be excuses to kill people. >> well, it's been that way for hundreds if not thousands of years. so it is a shame that we can't get along and today that we're living in today that you'd think you'd still have to kill people to try to get your point of view. it is difficult. but just have to keep believing and hoping and praying and, you know, i think that's all can you do in some of these situations. >> we'll take another break and we'll talk about the empire of the number one rock star preacher in the world.
you'll be pleased to know that this is the final segment. three minutes of hell left. do you like being interviewed or is it a mind field? >> i enjoy it. i don't always know the subjects but i enjoy talking with different people, especially you. >> your two children are both beginning to show signs of real talent. alexandra sings, jonathan is in a band. he's 16. would you like them to do what you did, take over the business if you suddenly weren't around? would you be happy with that? >> i'd be thrilled. you know, nothing greater than for your children to follow in your legacy. i mean i can't call them, i can't make them. i think it has to be a calling that they feel from on high. but, you know what, what i like
about them is they're way further along than i was at that age. i wouldn't get in front of people. yet, they're very comfortable and just great kids. >> do they have to live squeaky clean lives? 16-year-old boys normally, where i come from, this is the time they're getting into too many pints of cider and in the back of the sheds with their favorite girl in the town. are you going to have to keep an extra close eye because everybody is looking to trip them up? >> you know what? i never feel like it like that. we try to set a good example in front of them and, you know, do our best. but they're great kids. and, you know, i'm sure they're going to have challenges like we all do. but i don't feel -- my parents were never strict on me. they never made me go to church. we went to church because our friends were there. they're the same way. i mean my daughter had me get into church at 7:00 the other morning. i said i don't want to get there that early. but that's what i like. that's why their friends are there. when you overpressure. i think key is to set gay example at home. we have fun and we don't have to have a lot of other things to
make us happy. >> did you -- could you enjoy all this without victoria? she is looking at you really adoringly. >> i wouldn't enjoy it half as much. i don't think i would be half of who i am without victoria. she has spoken faith and vision into me from the beginning before i was ever a pastor, sitting there when my dad was ministering. she would say one day you're going to past yort church. and that would make me mad. i would say i can't pastor the church. i don't know how to speak. i don't know how to minister. she kept speaking faith into me. we have fun together, too. we don't get -- we take life seriously but we have fun together. >> victoria, how do you have fun together? what is he talking about? >> oh, we have good conversations. we like to do a lot of outdoor things together. we work together. >> on a friday when you are feeling your happiest, what is the thing you most -- what is your perfect friday? >> we like to have a good dinner and we like to ride our bikes or we like to just hang out and talk or, you know, we may have a few friends over. >> do you love him as much as you did the day you --
>> absolutely. and i sprekt him even more. >> what's the secret of the magic, do you think? >> i think he's a man of his word. i think he's a man of what his word. he's always looking for the best in any situation. he's very respectful. he's very generous. and he's very kind and he's extremely wise. >> you would agree with all that, joe? >> that and more. >> he's good looking. >> you can't ignore it. you must get some groupies. >> i have kind people. i don't call them groupies. but people feel like you helped them. >> attractive younger women wanting to throw themselves at you? >> i don't -- no. no. i'm not in the work we do. there are people that inspectful, i don't ever feel. that. >> do you ever have to step in and say back off, he's mine? >> well, funny.