tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 6, 2011 10:00pm-11:00pm EDT
>> steve, is it true that your plasticast is three inches tall? >> you know what? if you think i haven't got better things to do than you abuse me on this show, to hell with this. >> shut the door on the way out. that's it for us tonight. "a.c. 360" starts right now. it is 10:00 p.m. here on the east coast. good evening. we begin keeping them honest with the words of herman cain. some are contradicted by fact, some seem barely tethered to reality. others are matter of opinion, not fact, having stirred up such controversy they become news. we are taking a closer look because republican voters have made him a leading contender for the presidential nomination. last weekend, he won florida's gop straw vote. in the late east cbs news poll, he's tied with mitt romney for the lead among republicans. a 12-point surge in just two weeks. not perhaps the makings of our
next president or even likely the nominee, but herman cain is no longer a voice on the fringe. tonight we're taking what he says seriously beginning with statements he made about sharia or islamic law in america. >> there is this attempt to gradually ease sharia law and the muslim faith into our government. it does not belong in our government. >> now, herman cain back in march responding to a question about whether he'd appoint a muslim to his cabinet or to the federal bench, the answer he said was, no. he subsequently walked that back saying he's open to appointing anyone as long as they pledged their loyalty to america. as far as his claims about sharia law, in a presidential debate in june, he says sharia law has influenced court decisions in oklahoma and new jersey. in new jersey, there was one incident in 2009. one single incident, domestic violence case. a judge refused to grant a muslim woman a restraining order because of her husband's muslim
beliefs. that decision was overturned on appeal. that's it. voters in oklahoma did ban judges from relying on sharia law when deciding cases. but that was a preemptive move. it wasn't based on a judge actually doing that or muslims in oklahoma attempting to institute sharia law. on top of that, the constitution bars any religious test for office and the first amendment barse any mixing of church and state or mosque and state. chris christie, new jersey's republican and former u.s. attorney, had a simple answer to the question when he was dealing with it this summer -- >> this sharia law business is crap. it's just crazy. and i'm tired of dealing with the crazies. >> chris christie in july. the governor of new jersey. herman cain was not swayed. here he is just this weekend. >> call me crazy, but there are too many examples of where there has been pushback. >> you don't really mean this, though, do you? >> yes, i do. >> sharia law in the united states? >> some people would infuse sharia law in our court system
if we allow it. i honestly believe that. so even if he calls me crazy, i am going to make sure that they don't infuse it little by little by little. it's not going to be some grand scheme, little by little. i don't mind if he calls me crazy. i'm simply saying -- >> you're sticking to it. >> i'm sticking to it. >> the facts simply don't support his notion that there's a threat or some sort of movement toward this. cain is also on record criticizing planned parenthood, which is not unusual among social conservatives who object the its support of abortion rights. back in 2004, he was running for senate in georgia. "the washington post" covered a campaign appearance at which he told supporters that planned parenthood was established to systematically lower the black population. quote, one of the motivation was killing black babies. as for why, because they didn't want to deal with the problems of illiteracy and poverty.
as for what motivates planned parenthood either now or when the organization began, we couldn't find any facts to back up cain's allegation and cain hasn't offered any either. but he did tell the heritage foundation this about planned parenthood's founder. quote, when margaret sanger, check my history, started planned parenthood, the objective was to put these centers in primarily black communities so they could help kill black babies before they came into the world. the nonpartisan organization did check cain's history. they found no evidence that margaret sanger had any such motives and they spoke to her leading biographer and leading historians of the time. the conclusion, quote, cain's claim is a ridiculous, cynical play of the race card, we rate it pants on fire. by his own admission, not having the facts doesn't always stop herman cain from saying what's on his mind.
here he is the other day talking to "the wall street journal" about the wall street protests. >> i believe these demonstrations are planned and orchestrated to distract from the failed policies of the obama administration. don't blame wall street. don't blame the big banks. if you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself. >> we invited herman cain on the program. but his staff told us the candidate is busy all week. the invitation stands. ed rollins can't say no. dana lash is also with us. and gloria borger as well. gloria, what does cain have that romney doesn't? >> he's got enthusiastic supporters. more than half of his supporters say they're strongly supporting him. and romney only has about a quarter strong supporters. when you have that kind of enthusiasm behind you, it's
important. romney's supporters are sort of comfortable with him but they're not wildly mad about him. now, the good news for romney, though, is that these tea party voters are very fickle. they've moved. now they're with cain. they were with perry. they were with michele bachmann. so they keep moving around because they're looking for the perfect candidate, which, by the way, they're probably not going to kind. >> dana, do you think that's true, that tea party voters are fickle or they're still not settled on somebody? >> i don't think that they're settled on anyone yet. i think it's still a little bit early in the game. i want to see if some of the other candidates -- i would assume a bunch of other tea party activists do as well. want to see if one of the candidates can step up their game. everyone is still vetting the candidates and looking to see where they stand on the issues and how they hold up during national debates. that was the thing that cost perry his immediate lead was he didn't have a good couple of debates. that kind of cost him a little bit. i don't know if it's just so
much they're fickle as they're still vetting, at this point, i think. >> ed, can herman cain stand the vetting, as he now is much higher in the polls, he's going to get a lot more -- >> not if he says things like he said on camera. he has the attention of republican voters. they're going to pay close attention. gloria said there's a shift. michele bachmann became kind of a frontrunner for a while and said some things that slid her back. he became a frontrunner early in the debates. he made some mistakes on the same kinds of issues here. he slid back. perry has had three bad debates. my sense at this point in time is this is a time you can be fickle. you can like people but you're not going to vote for them. i think at the end of the day, the tea party element, which is very strong in our party, is not yet settled. >> it's interesting, ed. mitt romney is clearly the frontrunner but he's not breaking away from the pack. >> he's never been above 30%. he's just been a solid -- i had
pollsters tell me before this campaign started that he would never get above 30%. can 30% at the end of the day win if you're all divided up? the key thing, in three months we start going after states and delegates. my sense is he's a very strong candidate in new hampshire. he'll be a strong candidate in nevada. perry, bachmann, cain, others will be strong in iowa and south carolina. depending on who wins there, florida may be the ultimate decider. all of those five states will be in january. >> gloria, is there anything that romney can do that he hasn't already done? he's been running for so long, does he just keep being the guy he is now -- >> keep being romney? well, he can't be the guy he was the last time around because the guy he was the last time around was the candidate people thought was inauthentic who was a flip-flopper, kept changing positions to please different constituencies in the party. when you talk to his advisers, they say, we are not going to be that guy. we have defended what romney did on health care in massachusetts,
for example. we didn't back off of it. we're looking forwards the future saying it's not right for the nation as a whole. but it was right for massachusetts at that time. the big thing they're going to do and have to continue to do is to make him look like the most plausible candidate to become president of the united states that the republican party can field. that's different from saying he's electable because when you proclaim you're electable to conservatives, it means that you're really moderate trying to be conservative. so what he has to do is say, i'm the only plausible president standing here with these other candidates. that's what he's doing. >> dana, what do you think romney's biggest weakness is, from this vantage point? >> mitt romney. his biggest weakness is his own record. when he was governor of massachusetts, the state was 47th in terms of job creation. i don't get where this big job creation record comes from mitt romney.
and i cannot fathom the idea of any true conservative or any republican, for that matter, who's spent the past 2 1/2 years criticizing president obama's health care law suddenly throwing their support towards the governor who helped bring in the blueprint for that. it seems a complete betrayal of everything that everyone's been standing for the past several years. the number one threat to mitt romney is himself. the second threat, i think at some point could be rick perry. i don't know whether or not herman cain can go a full-on primary battle against mitt romney, especially in terms of fund-raising. but he definitely has a lot of support behind him right now. >> he doesn't have a staff. >> yeah. and he -- >> the two campaigns that are organized -- and perry's getting organized -- is perry and romney. as i said, january, maybe even december, we have our candidate set, we don't have our calendar set. you could literally have the iowa caucus the day after christmas this year.
but the bottom line is by the end of january, the battle is going to be down to the two people who are serious. it's probably going to be perry and romney. and they'll go for the long run. >> and in terms of fund-raising, perry just came in -- he beat mitt romney this last quarter, just by $3 million or $4 million in fund-raising. cain didn't come close to that. >> cain doesn't have any kind of apparatus. the bottom line is both romney and perry have gotten the easy money, the money from here on gets harder. and they have way more money than anybody else. but from here on out, it's going to take you $40 million, $50 million to get through this process. it's a lot of money fenlts a. >> and the question for tea party supporters is, are they still going to be looking for mr. perfect or ms. perfect or are they going to rally behind somebody they believe is that plausible president who can go toe to toe against barack obama? >> ed rollins, dana, gloria
borger, i appreciate it. we'll talk to herman cain and all the candidates a couple of weeks from now in las vegas. let us know what you think. we're on facebook. follow me at twitter. up next, the airport they want to build on the island in the middle of nowhere. looks like it will benefit a big company nearby but almost nobody else. a company is paying for a fraction of it. guess who else is paying for it? you are. and later, the michael jackson death trial and a good day for defendant conrad murray m how defense attorneys managed to raise doubts about the prosecution's case. thomas mesereau join us. steve jobs left behind two families, the one most people know about and the other that many people don't. we'll tell you about the daughter who was on early apple's, the sister, a famous
novelist he only discovered later in life and the birth father he ignored for years. that and more when "360" continues. and fruit & veggie has antioxidant properties. new pronutrients from centrum. help make nutrition possible. new pronutrients from centrum. metamucil uses super hard working psyllium fiber, which gels to remove unsexy waste and reduce cholesterol. taking psyllium fiber won't make you a model but you should feel a little more super. metamucil. down with cholesterol.
are talking about national sacrifice, about deep cuts in defense and entitlements and other spending that touches tens of millions of americans, they're also still pushing money out the door for what appears to be the benefit of the very, very few, or in the case of the story we uncovered, for the apparent benefit of a single, well-connected company. call it corporate well pharr, pork barrel politics or earmarks gone wild. president obama, just a few weeks ago said, enough is enough. >> no more earmarks, no more boondoggles, no more bridges to nowhere. >> that was the president's address to congress last month. democrats and republicans have been saying the same now for years. >> the american people see this earmark process as an example of a broken washington. >> our debt is unsustainable. >> on the earmark process -- >> after the cornhusker kickback. >> driven by earmarks. >> it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. it's an earmark. >> earmarks have become emblematic of everything that's
wrong. >> i intend to vote against the earmarks. >> when it comes to our friends in the special interest, spend, spend, spend. >> democrats and republicans railing against earmark, pet and pork projects like the bridge to nowhere in alaska. you'd think there wouldn't be any pork left. but we found a project out on the tip of alaska. the obama administration kept it going. both republican and democratic lawmakers voted to fund it, even though critics are calling it a multimillion-dollar airport to nowhere. gary tuchman went there. >> reporter: calling this place remote would be an understatement. thousands of acres of alaskan wilderness on an uninhabited island. but you, the american taxpayer, are building an airport here, money for an airport on a deserted island.
joe is the mayor of this city in alaska, on another island six miles away. the airport is being built for his town which has 100 residents. why the 100 citizens of mountainous city need an airport that's pricing out at about $77 million? most of it paid by you. >> we have over 1,000 people we need to serve. >> reporter: indeed, in addition to his 100 residents, there are about 1,100 other people who either come by boat or bycati n occasionally seaplane to work here. t tri dent seafood company is getting a good deal for it. trident will pay $1 million towards this airport. >> we're looking at a waste of money here. this is something that you have a private company that is standing to get a driveway built for them by the taxpayer.
so this is outrageous use of taxpayer funds. >> reporter: the plant manager is david bossian. >> driveway for trident. what's your response to that? >> to a naked eye, you can't argue that. >> reporter: but trident says it's built its own infrastructure on this island, improved the lives of native population and sees no reason it should pay more than $1 million. >> this is not something that's being handed to us. it is something that we've earned through all the contributions that have been made towards the tax dollars. we have paid millions, millions in tax dollars. >> reporter: many of the families who have been here for generations agree, saying the plant has improved opportunities. in the small post office, a postal worker says he doesn't feel badly about u.s. taxpayers footing most of the bill. >> we all pay taxes just like everybody else does.
>> trident changed the lifestyle here. >> reporter: as we continued talking to the mayor, the conversation struck a nerve. if trident wasn't here, do you think you would need this airport for 100 people? >> no, no, that doesn't make sense, no. >> reporter: so you acknowledge that trident needs it far more than your city needs it? >> the city as a community, we are a community, gary. you need to open your eyes and see us as a community. if you keep -- you need to turn the camera off. if you keep insisting on that, i'm going to quit talking to you, gary. >> reporter: but it's not only the airport funding that's getting negative attention. it's still not clear how the passengers will get there. the orig plan was a hovercraft. but in other parts of alaska, it doesn't always work. then there's the thought of a helicopter or a boat like this one. but it takes between 20 and 40 minutes to get there and it's cold and uncomfortable. even though the airport is about to open, we don't know how people will get there. it took us more than two days
just to get there for our story. much of the time here, perhaps more than half the time, the waves are too high. the winds too severe to get a boat close to the island where the airport is. today is one of those days. so we waited for the next day. the winds diminished, the skies cleared. we took a cargo boat, then a skiff. but there was a 90-foot muddy cliff between us and the construction site. we had to scale it. even the trident bosses haven't yet been to the site. made it. about 25 construction workers are living on the island for up to two months at a time. gravel has just started to be laid down on the runway. the airport project is on schedule. this is your airport, american taxpayer, even though seeing it on tv is probably the closest you'll ever get to it. >> gary, wouldn't it have been cheaper and easier to build the airport on the island where the people live instead of six miles away?
>> reporter: that's right. it's a beautiful place. but the problem is, it's basically a volcanic rock plopped into the bering sea and the pacific ocean. 97% of it is mountainous. the only flat areas are where the people live in their houses. they put it on the neighboring island, which is flat but ironically, no one lives on that flat island. >> i want to bring in steve ellis. mr. ellis, trident says they put a lot of money into the economy and they deserve this airport largely on the taxpayer's dime. you disagree. why? >> clearly, they're the major beneficiary. they do contribute to the economy. they bring 1,000 people or more to that island every year for seasonal work. but they're only kicking in $1 million. and this airport is a little more than a driveway for trident seafoods. >> reporter: gary, why can't they just keep playing seaplanes like they're doing now? >> reporter: the seaplanes are 50 or 60 years old. they don't make them anymore and
they have to have good weather. so they fly infrequently. but you can still get there. but it's a long boat ride from the nearest airport to the island right now, it's a 4 1/2-hour boat ride. it's very inconvenient. >> alaska is a pretty unique state in terms of transportation challenges. there are significant challenges in certain places. isn't this just the cost of part of doing business in alaska? it's what's required? >> anderson, it's not the cost of doing business for trident seafood. it's the cost to the taxpayer. there's no doubt that alaska is a unique state and that there is a lot of need for air transportation because you can't get from place a to place b by road. but that said, we still have to look at priorities and what makes the most sense because there's a lot of these type situations around alaska. in this case, it's really about benefiting this one business that's a big business that should be able to pick up part of the tab or a greater share of the tab. >> steve ellis, appreciate it. gary tuchman as well, thanks.
>> thank you. coming up, as tributes pour in following the death of steve jobs, we're taking a closer look at his birth. the remarkable story of his adoption, his biological parents and the sister he met when they were both adults. that's next. later, an investigation on the stand in the michael jackson case. we're america's natural gas and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists...
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up close tonight, the tributes around the world honoring iconic apple co-founder steve jobs who died yesterday at the age of 56. from new york to paris to hong kong, makeshift shrines of flowers, apples, candles and thank you notes, flags at apple stores flying at half mast. no word on whether there will be a public memorial service but a website will be created for people who want to offer their tributes and memories. at the end of jobs' life, an outpouring of admiration. but we wanted to take a look at the beginnings of his life. it's a story just as remarkable as he went on to build. his life was one of bravado and brilliance, of innovation and creation. but how he got there is a little told story. >> my biological mother was a young, unwed graduate student and she decided to put me up for adoption. >> reporter: her name was jo ann
shibl. she met and married this man. he recently told the "new york post," i was very much in love with joanne, but sadly her father was a tyrant and forbade her to marry me. joanne took off on her own and went to san francisco where she gave birth. >> everything was all set for me to be adopted at birth by a lawyer and his wife. except they decided at the last minute that they really wanted a girl. so my parents who were on a waiting list got a call in the middle of the night asking, we've got an unexpected baby boy, do you want him? they said, of course. >> reporter: his adoptive father, paul jobs, was a machinist. he and his wife raised steve in a middle class home in los
altos, california. >> i was lucky. i found what i loved to do early in life. woz and i started apple in my parent's garage when i was 20. >> reporter: three years later, jobs himself had a child out of wedlock, a girl named lisa. lisa is now an accomplished writer. and in february of 2008 wrote in "vogue" magazine what it was like growing up as jobs' daughter. in california, my mother had raised me mostly alone, we didn't have many things, but she is warm and we were happy. my father was rich and renowned and later as i got to know him, went on vacations with him and then lived with him for a few years. i saw another, more glamorous world. as for jobs' biological parents, they did eventually get married, even had another child, the novelist, mona simpson. jobs met her when they became adults and became very close. some suspect her book is
actually about jobs. but he never developed a relationship with his biological father. just six weeks ago, he told the "new york post," now i just live and hope that before it is too late, he will reach out to me, because even to have just one coffee with him just once would make me a very happy man. we don't know if jobs ever had that coffee with his biological father. but we do know that throughout his life, jobs was philosophical about his relationships and about life. >> you can't connect the dots looking forward. you can only connect them looking backwards. so you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart even when it leads you off the well-worn path. >> what a remarkable man. we're following several other stories tonight. isha sesay joins us.
>> the occupy wall street protests enter their 20th day today. the protests are popping up in other u.s. cities. the president today said the demonstrations are indicative of the frustration that americans feel about the financial system. >> i think it expresses the frustrations that the american people feel that we had the biggest financial crisis since the great depression, huge collateral damage all throughout the country, all across main street, and yet you're still seeing some of the same folks who acted irresponsibly trying to fight efforts to crack down on abusive practices that got us into this problem in the first place. >> president obama also spoke about the jobs bill today, sending a tough message to republicans. the president said any senator who's thinking about voting against his jobs bill needs to
explain why. the $447 billion bill is due for a vote in the senate next week. congresswoman gabrielle giffords was at a ceremony honoring her husband's retirement from the navy. giffords has been in houston recovering from being shot in january in tucson. and a few producers of "the simpsons" reportedly say they're willing to take pay cuts to try to keep the show on the air. the main dispute between the studio and the voice actors continues. the studio wants them to take a 45% pay cut and rejected their offer to take a 30% cut instead. anderson, maybe, just maybe you won't be crying into your pillow after all. >> oh! >> oh, donuts! >> was that your -- >> what? >> was "the simpsons" popular in britain. >> actually, it was. you seem surprised. >> did you call it "the
simpsons" or something? >> no. it was still homer, lisa, bart and maggie. >> good to know. time for the shot. it's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog. a chihuahua named dude has heard of it. we found this on youtube. i keep being afraid he's going to eat that whole thing. >> yeah. >> the big dog's name is maggie. the video was shot a couple of years ago. maggie was top dog until dude came along. apparently they get along pretty well. >> my feeling is the whole time maggie is thinking, to eat or not to eat, that is the question. >> i think maggie is finally like, enough, i'm going to get up. >> yeah. still ahead, serious stuff, crime and punishment, the latest in the trial and the death of
for fastidious librarian emily skinner, each day was fueled by thorough preparation for events to come. well somewhere along the way, emily went right on living. but you see, with the help of her raymond james financial advisor, she had planned for every eventuality. ...which meant she continued to have the means to live on... ...even at the ripe old age of 187. life well planned. see what a raymond james advisor can do for you. yeah, i toog nyguil bud i'm stild stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't un-stuff your nose. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your stuffy nose. [ deep breath ] thank you! that's the cold truth!
on day eight of the michael jackson death trial, the defense came out swinging. their target, this woman, alyssa fleek. her testimony is key to the prosecution's case. they say dr. conrad murray gave the deadly dose of propofol that killed michael jackson. today, a toxicologist testified about the type and levels of drugs including propofol found in jackson's body. here's randi kaye. >> reporter: in the hours after michael jackson died, investigators scoured the bedroom of his rented mansion for clues to what killed him.
an investigator with the los angeles county coroner's office found 12 bottles of the powerful anesthetic propofol in jackson's bedroom. she told the jury yesterday, one of them was empty. >> did you locate on the floor a 20 milliliter bottom of propo l propofol? >> yes, i did. >> and where was that located? >> on the floor next to the left side of the bed. >> and was it empty but for some drops of fluid as it is here today? >> correct. >> reporter: the coroner says jackson died of acute propofol intoxication. his doctor, conrad murray, deanalyze charges of manslaughter. in court, the jury learned murray's fingerprint was found on the 100 milliliter bottle of propofol that prosecutors say led to jackson's death. the bedroom looked more like a pharmacy. these are all the medications fleek says she discovered. she also said she found a syringe, an iv stand and an iv
bag with propofol in it. on cross today, the defense tried to make her investigation look sloppy saying she didn't report propofol was in the room until two years after jackson's death. >> in fact, the very first time that you noted that there was a propofol bottle in an iv bag was the 29th of march, 2011. >> in case notes. >> yeah. >> yes. >> isn't that right? >> yes. >> reporter: the prosecution's case hinges on the fact that propofol was inside the iv bag, which would mean jackson could not have taken the fatal dose himself, as the defense suggests. the defense pressed on, attempting to show fleek made more mistakes, touching a
syringe she'd found in the bedroom without wearing gloves. >> this syringe has your fingerprint on it. >> yes, it does. >> reporter: investigator fleek also took heat for not mentioning the iv bag in her original reports. >> would you consider that a mistake, ms. fleek, on your part? >> i described something in detail later on. i didn't include it in the general initial narrative. is it a mistake? i could have described more in detail. >> you could have described it at all, right? >> in the initial report, yes. >> reporter: on the stand wednesday, a computer forensics examiner who analyzed conrad murray's iphone. on it, a recording from may 10th, 2009, of michael jackson sounding wasted and slurring his words. in a portion never before played in court, jackson was speaking of his love for children and his own unhappy childhood. >> i love them, i love them because i didn't have a childhood.
i had no childhood. i feel their pain, i feel their hurt. >> reporter: then suddenly, silence, and dr. murray's voice. >> you okay? >> i am asleep. >> reporter: sleep. michael jackson wanted it so badly it killed him. randi kaye, cnn, los angeles. >> so disturbing to hear those phone calls. did the defense score points today? joining me is tom mesereau who was michael jackson's former attorney. tom, thanks for being with us. the defense cross-examined the coroner's investigator trying to to show she made a number of mistakes in jackson's room. was their argument effective? >> i thought he did a very good job. he was very prepared. he left no stone unturned. he didn't bully the witness but he was firm in his cross. no investigation is ever perfect
and no investigator is ever perfect. the question is, with some of these imperfections or inconsistencies rise to a significant level? they may or may not. it depends on how they play into other evidence that comes up later in the trial. right now, i didn't hear anything that was fatal. but you don't know how it's going to connect with other things later on. >> the investor was saying, i didn't mention the iv bag in the initial report but in a more detailed report later on, i did. >> that's right. of course, he's suggesting it's suspicious that you were influenced by prosecutors and by witnesses, that kind of thing. that's where he was coming from, in my opinion. >> one thing we've been waiting to hear is this two-hour interview that dr. murray give to police two days after jackson's death. how significant do you think that piece of evidence is going to be? >> well, i'm very surprised as a criminal defense lawyer that his lawyers allowed him to go go down to the police station two days after michael's death and give a detailed statement.
they had no idea what evidence was surfacing and how it could be interpreted. to let him go down there and lock himself into very precise statements, particularly with respect to the time line, may prove to be a mistake. >> your advice to a client in this situation is never to talk to the police or at least know what the police want to talk to you about? >> my advice to the client would be not to talk to the police and to blame it on me. the reason would be, my attorney has instructed me not to speak. that never comes into a trial. it's a constitutional right that everyone has. that would have been the better way to go, i believe. but we'll never know until this trial ends. if it's an acquittal, the lawyer will look like a genius. i think it was a mistake from everything i know. >> the toxicologist who studied the drugs that were in jackson's body also testified today. is this the key scientific evidence the prosecution needs for their case? >> it's certainly very key evidence.
no one's disputing that michael was having propofol put into his system in his home, under conditions that were less than desirab desirable. no one is disputing how powerful an anesthetic this is. the question is, who's responsible for him having the propofol in a toxic amount? the defense, i think, is doing an excellent job trying to find a way to suggest michael did it himself. i don't think it's going to fly at this point. he had propofol all over his body, his eyes, his legs, his heart, liver, pancreas, his bloodstream, his stomach. my understanding is the propofol amount in the stomach was not large. and while stomach contents can diffuse in the blood, by the same token, what's in the blood can diffuse in the stomach. it may have come not from being ingested through his mouth. >> how much of a defense do you think the defense is actually going to put up? do you think they're going to call a lot of witnesses? >> i think they're going to have to. i don't think the cross-examination, while it's been very professionally done,
has been enough to tilt the balance in their favor. they have to at least call some experts to talk about the amount of propofol in his system, what would be deadly. and if they can -- if they can find experts to say that what conrad murray did met the standard of care, i'll be very surprised. but you never know. very often you can find an expert if you pay them enough. >> there's no way they would put conrad murray on the stand, though? >> i think there is a way. >> really? >> if they think all hope is lost, if they think they have nothing to lose, they may put him up there. if they think they've established the possibility of reasonable doubt, i think they won't because the cross-examination is going to be brutal given what he didn't tell the paramedics, what he didn't tell the police or the hospital personnel, given the fact that he didn't call 911 quickly. there's so many things they're going to butcher him on on cross that i think they'd like to avoid it if they can. >> when you hear michael jackson's voice on that phone call, obviously in some sort of an altered state or -- well,
make of it what you will. what do you make of it? what do you hear? >> first of all, from a personal standpoint. i was his lead criminal defense counsel in his trial. i worked with him nine months before the trial. the trial lasted almost five months. i've never heard michael jackson ever sound that way. he was always articulate, conscious, cooperative, just the nicest person to deal with. it just sickens me -- it just horrifies me to hear him talking that way. what also horrifies me is the fact that his doctor would tape-record it and the purpose for what i can't imagine it being a good one. the only reason that i can think of him recording that was either to keep it as a souvenir or to sell it and that horrifies me to no end. >> or to play it for girlfriends or something? >> it's horrible. who it will help in the trial is an interesting question because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. how you interpret evidence is a subjective thing. the prosecutors are saying it
shows the desperate state michael was in, that he needed professional help and didn't get it. the defense is saying he was an addict who caused his own demise. it spans both arguments. in the end, it's likely to help the prosecution more than the defense. >> tom mesereau, appreciate it. thanks for your expertise. >> thanks for having me. why a doctor with suspected ties to the raid that killed osama bin laden is facing charges in pakistan. plus, the judge who presided over amanda knox's appeal, breaking her silence on her acquittal. it doesn't mean he thinks she's innocent. [ junior ] i played professional basketball for 12 years.
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back to anderson in a moment. first a "360" bulletin. a doctor suspected of helping the cia track down osama bin laden will be charged with treason. the physician is accused of setting up a fake vaccination program to try to collect dna samples from people living at bin laden's compound. bin laden was killed by u.s. special forces in a raid at the compound in may. the italian judge who presided over amanda knox's murder appeal says she may be guilty of killing her roommate, meredith kercher in 2007. but he says she had to be acquitted because of doubts over the evidence in the case. knox is back in seattle after her murder conviction was overturned on monday. espn is pulling the plug on the long-time theme song of monday night football starring hank williams, jr. the decision comes off the williams comparing president obama to adolf hitler.
we all know anderson cooper can pull off the gray hair look. but for those of you who don't like it, l'oreal is trying to develop a daily pill to prevent your lock from getting the salt and pepper look. anderson, if you could go back in time, would you take the pill? >> no, probably not. i don't know. no. i probably wouldn't have. gosh, darn it, i'm standing up for gray-haired rights. >> at the end of the day, silver fox is much cooler than mouse si brown fox. that's what it would have been if you had kept it like that. >> thanks? >> is that laughter? that was a compliment. don't get all sensitive. >> i'm calling h.r. thanks very much. just three days away from our special report, bullying. it stops here. today the maryland governor along with the state's first lady signed her anti-bullying pledge hosted by facebook. they took part at a high school where they encouraged students,
parents and staff to do the same. to take the pledge yourself, go to facebo facebook.com/stopbullyingspe facebook.com/stopbullyingspeakup . join us for our town hall. a whole bunch of remarkable kids who are facing bullying right now today and they tell you their stories. it's incredibly moving. that's at 8:00 p.m. eastern sunday night here on cnn. coming up, a handbag -- an alligator handbag that cost $39,000. that ends up on our list. sional. with a customized mobile app developed with at&t, jet's food inspectors can share data in real time -- so what used to take two weeks, now takes two hours. faster feedback means better food and happy people. it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better.
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time now for the "ridiculist." tonight we're adding the backpack. it's reportedly flying off the shelves. and it costs $39,000. you heard me right. it's the average starting salary for a teacher. yes, you may weep now. mary kate and ashley say the demand is so big for the backpack, it was the first thing in their handbag line that sold out. for the record, i like the olsen twins a lot. they seem like nice, cool people. what i can't understand is why anyone would spend $39,000 on a backpack. ashley olsen said in a bad economy, extreme luxury products do very well.
she could probably give ben bernanke a run for his money. she said, during our last economic crisis in the u.s., the only thing that went up was hermaise. the olsen twins thought to themselves, what's more extreme and luxury than this? to be fair, you cannot get a new car that's made out of authentic alligator. it's an alligator backpack. we looked around a little. the truth is, you really don't have to spend $39,000 to get an alligator backpack. this one cost about $33, for instance. i would like to see more twins getting into the fashion business, like the wonder twins. they could use some work. or the winklevoss twins. maybe the nelson twins -- they are busy. they have a concert a week from friday in sheboygan, wisconsin. not making that up. totally serious.