tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN January 22, 2012 12:00am-1:00am EST
tune in to cnn's next republican debate from jacksonville, florida thursday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern. our coverage continues right now. thanks, anderson. let me come back to a few in a moment. more on newt gingrich's victory in south carolina, mitt romney, rick santorum and ron paul. >> we don't have the kind of money that at least one of the candidates has. but we do have ideas and we do have people. and we've proved here in south carolina that people power with the right ideas beats big money. with your help, we're going to prove it again in florida. >> three state, three winners. next stop, florida, where mitt romney still has a commanding lead according to the latest poll. wolf blitzer, gloria and john king will be here in a moment to talk about it.
but first, two people that are very happy with the results. i spoke with newt gingrich's daughters, jackie and cathy. ladies, judging by the big grins on your faces, you're pretty happy down there. >> we're thrilled to be here in south carolina. >> it's a great place to be tonight. >> i bet it is. what an amazing turn around for your father. i've spoken to him a few times and he was dead on arrival in the summer. he made this amazing comeback. then he was like the has been who had blown his chance. now he's the front-runner. how do you feel? >> very excited. i think what it proves to everybody, the american people, i think he's like the energizer bunny. he goes on and on and on. he's very persistent and that's one of the things we love about him. >> it seemed to me that his
fortunes seemed to change rather dramatically when he stopped being saint newt, this word new creation he had come up with a halo and took the gloves off and became nasty newt. >> well, i wouldn't say that exactly. what i would say is that he tried to stay positive, and then he had to go to contrast. and contrast is clear. contrast is good for him in the republican premire. it's going to be better for him when you think about the republican conservative candidate, newt gingrich, debating barack obama. so i think that the contrasts are our big future. >> your father most definitely was predicting this. i want to play an interview i did with him which he said the following. >> well, first of all, i think i'm going to win. this is going to be armageddon. they will come in here with everything they've got. every surrogate, every ad, every negative attack.
>> well, he was right. this is going to be armageddon and i'm going to win. he didn't just win by a small margin, he had a thumping victory tonight. someone told me that your father likes nothing better than when someone is attacking him, whether his ex-wife, john king, my colleague quite rightly taking him on, mitt romney, whoever it is, your dad likes it when bullets are firing at him. >> he's an infantry man. his father served 27 years in the nfantry. we had a very clear vision of what he wants to do with the american people. he understands we're in a crisis situation and he's the only candidate that cut taxes, cut spending and cut well favor and he did this with a democratic president. so he's governed before and he can again.
>> what did you think of the interview that his ex-wife gave? i know that you and he both tried to get abc not to run it and were unsuccessful. in the end, it didn't look like it damaged him very much. in fact, quite the opposite. how did you feel such an incredible personal interview attacking your father in that way? >> well, i have not seen it, but when it is heated, things come out of the blue. you don't expect it. but the reanother is, the people of south carolina were not interested. they knew who they wanted to be leading the charge. they do elect presidents here and they knew who has the capability and the background and the capacity to go toe to toe with barack obama. and they made a statement and that's what we're here to celebrate. >> do you think that your father is a reformed character? he certainly tells me that he is, and you told me last week
that you felt he was. do you feel that he is genuinely a different man now to the man that maybe he was in his 30s and forts? >> absolutely. several things have happened since then. he's owned several businesses. he's had two grand children. he's gotten much closer to god, his faith is much edeeper and stronger. i spend a lot of time with him on the campaign trail and the man that he is today is much more patient, much, much more interested in listening to people, and he really is -- when he talks about why he's running, he's so often -- he's running for president because he knows that he's the leader we need right now. he could have stayed at home and done nothing. but i'm very proud of him because he is working very hard, because he knows that america needs a real leader with courage. and my dad is that guy. >> i did another interview with
former president jimmy carter which he accused your father pretty directly of using what he describes as subtle racial terminology to whip up support. how did you feel when you heard that? your father certainly had a whack at jimmy carter tonight that he clearly wasn't very happy about it. >> well, our father is very much equal opportunity in the realm of his heart. i can't imagine anyone who knows him having any room to discuss the fact whether or not he's -- has any issue with raise. that's not the man we know and the fact is, we love the man who wants everyone to have a job, everyone to have a better job and everyone to have the opportunity to own a job. that's the america we love and that's our father. >> you managed to, between all of you, persuade rick perry to come on board. who's next for your predatory clutches? who are you targeting? >> i love the way you framed
that question. we're thrilled with governor perry's decision. but yeah, he's a wonderful guy. he's a real american hero. he served in the military. my father this highly of him and we are thrilled to have his endorsement. we will welcome anyone that wants to join the conservative movement. we're about people returning the power to the people, not to government. and that's what dad is all about. >> i believe may believe it's the first time that your father has had an outright state victory in his career. this will give him a huge amount of increased energy driving into florida. but he knows in florida it's going to be one hell of a battle with mitt romney. i would imagine whatever the upside of armageddon is, whatever it is, it's going to rain down on your father's head. what do you think his strategy
will be in florida? >> well, i happen to be from florida now. i've been in the miami area for over a decade and i can tell you that my father has worked for many, many years to include the hispanic as far as every part of his being, there's been an inclusion component in our campaign. that's going to be a component. we're not going to be able to match romney dollar for dollar. but romney is not going to be able to match barack obama. this is not about a dollars game. this is about people understanding the ideas and the solutions and the courage that our father has. the fact that he has a history of governing successfully. that he promised when they came together and produced the contrast with america that they would vote on those tenants and they did. he delivers on his promises. once we get that message out, i think we'll have a very good chance of at least holding our
own and this is going to be a long raise. this is not just florida. there are many, many more states out there. >> and final question, ladies, where is the party tonight? because i can get the last flight out of here and join you. >> that's exactly right. we're at the hilton in columbia. we've got people very excited, they worked very hard in social and we're so thankful for the people in south carolina that once again picked the right man for the nominee. >> go and have a good celebration, ladies. >> thank you. >> has tonight's big win for newt gingrich reset the republican race? welcome back to you guys. it was after new hampshire i was with you in atlanta there at the mother ship as we call it. and it seemed then like this
race was over, this was mitt romney, 2 for 2, ahead in all the polls in south carolina. and we really thought this might be the beginning of a very, very quick end to the raise. now mitt romney is not even 2 for 2. he's now 1-3. we now see gingrich not just winning tonight but absolutely thumping romney. everything has changed, hasn't it? >> it certainly has. i think it's going to be a race. because florida, ten days from now, a lot could happen. here's one thing that i think is definitely going to happen. there's going to be an enormous amount of attack advertising that's going to be broadcast in the south. you're going to see a tremendous amount of those superpac negative attack ads coming in.
millions and millions and millions of dollars. it worked against newt gingrich in iowa. we'll see what happens in florida. the other thing we know is going to happen, next monday and thursday night, two major debates, republican debates. we're going to have the cnn debate next thursday night in jacksonville, florida. and all of us know how powerful these debates have been. so ten day is also a lifetime in politics. anything can happen between now and january 31. >> it certainly is. and john king, what's been fascinating to me about this is i was being told, look, when they get to south carolina, the evangelical south will rally against newt gingrich because of all the baggage, because of all the marriages, all the stuff that you got into with him at the debate the other night in spectacular fashion. yet the opposite seemed to happen. it seemed to rally him to say, you know, don't judge me on my past. i'm here for the future. and he seems to have won that debate comprehensively. his ex-wife goes on television
with what could have been an incredibly damaging interview and it seems to have galvanized his vote even higher. >> as that sinks in, we'll see if there's any impact. you can count on rick santorum and governor romney getting more into the character debate. an important point, evangelical voters in a state where you have 9.9% unemployment, they were voting on the economy and voting on passion. we saw a dramatic shift. this could be a game changer if it continues. south carolina conservatives, ev evangelic evangelicals, coming to the conclusion that newt gingrich has ability to beat barack obama. that's the number one certain for republicans.
they are hungry, hungry for somebody who can go in and debate fiercely against barack obama and hopefully beat barack obama. a majority of south carolina republicans say gingrich is the better candidate. if he can carry anything like that, that he's the better experienced to be president, that he's the better candidate to beat obama, if he can carry that into florida, romney has problems. >> gloria, let's talk about mitt romney. it's been a bad week. i thought his performances in the debates were lackluster. he looked weak on this whole issue, and now he's under real attack and he doesn't seem to have a change of gear. whereas gingrich looks fired up. >> right. and romney needles to have a change of gear. i think what the campaign discovered is inevitability is not a great strategy and i don't think they're going to do that
again and they're not going to talk about how electable he is anymore. you're going to see a different, finely tuned mitt romney. they realized they can't have all the surrogates attacking newt gingrich, that romney has to take it to him, newt gingrich directly. we stau a little bit of that tonight in his speech. what they're going to talk about is the fact that newt gingrich is a lobbyist and somebody who lobbied as they say for freddie mac. when you look at the value of housing and how it's declined in the state of florida, they oar going to have after him on that. they're going to say he's out of touch with the republican party, that he called the republican budget right wing social engineering. something that almost every house republican voted for. so they're going to also say that he's unreliable, that he's erratic. that you need somebody who is steadier at the helm and who can be depended upon to beat barack obama, because in the end, it's
going to be a race about who is best able to beat the president of the united states and romney has to show in these debates coming up, including the one with wolf on thursday, that he can take it to barack obama and go the long haul with him. and win for the republican party. that's what they want. >> it's going to be a fascinating week. wolf, i hope you're ready to eclipse john king's current crown as best question in debate history. so a lot of pressure on you, mr. wolf, to get one over on mr. king. >> i'll do my best, thursday night, 8:00 p.m. eastern. >> congratulations on the coverage again. it's been exhilarating to watch. thank you all very much. >> thanks, piers. when we come back, how will mitt romney and rick santorum respond to gingrich's surge?
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the republican party doesn't demonize prosperity, we celebrate success. those who pick up the weapons of the left today, will find them turned against us tomorrow. that's the choice our party gives to america. >> mitt romney had a solid lead in south carolina, then newt gingrich scored big in local debates and surged in the polls. joining me now, a spokesman for the former governor mark sanford. thank you for joining me. a big night in many ways. maybe not, though, the end of the story by a long way, because florida is looming large in everything, isn't it? >> i think the beauty is we have 50 states that are very different. south carolina is a very interesting state. they usually go with the eventual gop nominee. but i think they got it wrong this time.
for some reason, there was a lot of pressure to support newt from the media. he did a great job in the debates. he gave it to the media. people like that. there are a lot of retired folks in south carolina. >> my sense is, don't americans just like a politician standing up going, no, and taking on his critics,is enemies, ex-wife, whoever it might be, they like this style that newt gingrich has, and they don't like the fact that mitt romney is always the same paced, even tempered guy, smooth, slick businessman who may be detached from their world. >> i wouldn't call mitt smooth or slick. i think he's a nice guy and people try to make him more than just a nice guy. he needs to just be mitt. and i think he is that earnest guy who is just going to be honest. he needles to draw attention to the fact that newt is a master
of government. he's the former speaker of the house. the people of south carolina really liked the fact that newt said, i messed up, i'm sorry, i've talked to my creator and i want to move on. people like that. americans want to forgive. but let's start turning to florida. in ten days, we have a lot of snow birds and people who reflect more of all of america, all of the united states. and i think you're going to see florida come around and mitt is going to be back on top and be the nominee. >> but before florida, we have two more debates coming up, and newt gingrich is really turning it on in these debates. it's the first time i've seen where the debates are almost winning primaries. >> well, i think that's true. i think people want to hear a nice sound bite and newt has great sound bites. but in the end, i think we've got to talk on the romney camp about electability. because newt is not electable. he's absolutely not someone who is going to beat barack obama. the more the romney -- >> do you really think that?
>> yeah, i think there's no question that newt gingrich cannot beat barack obama. >> okay. fascinating observations, rick. i'm not sure i agree with you. i think newt gingrich has got something going for him right now, which is momentum. and in politics that can be very powerful. >> iowa, new hampshire, he was fourth and fifth and yes, he did well in south carolina. he doesn't have a lot of money and florida is going to be about who has a ground game. mitt romney, 2008, got 15% of the vote. he doubled his voting this time around. so i think a lot of people saw him and now are supporting him more than ever. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. rick santorum didn't make much of a dent in south carolina tonight, so what will that mean for his campaign in florida? john, a tough night for you guys. obviously the gingrich surge became a reality. where does that leave you?
>> well, actually, this was about the second best night we could have. we wanted to win south carolina, that would believe great. but with newt gingrich winning, that means there's been three regional primaries, and three different winners. first time that's ever happened in the united states. so it shows how wide open it is. it shows the distinction between the three candidates. it's a great story line. you have the redemption in some sense of newt gingrich. you have mitt romney spending more money than anybody knows what to do with to win one of out three. and rick santorum winning officially in iowa. this is going to be find of fun as we move on. >> how angry are you guys about what happened in iowa? had you been able to be declared the outright winners, it would have made a big difference for your ability to raise money and perhaps to do more ads in south carolina and so on.
it's like a domino effect, isn't it? >> well, the real interesting thing about iowa was that we spent by far the least amount of money and as we know officially yesterday won it. what it tells me more importantly is that in america it's not about who spends the most but who has the most compelling message and messenger. it should have been great if we had more gres and so forth, but we still raised significant money coming out of iowa. there's only three people left on the island, if you will, and we're one of them. we're excited about where we are. >> at one point, though, does the campaign hit the buffers in the sense that at some stage, there is going to have to be a two-horse race. everybody knows the ron paul won't get out. so if rick santorum doesn't perform well in florida, he will get a lot of heat to step aside.
>> let's put this in context. before tonight, the highest finish newt gingrich had was a fourth in iowa, a fifth in new hampshire, beat both times by rick santorum. now we're down to three candidates. they're all going to three a lot more scrutiny, particularly newt gingrich. the question that's going to come up with all of them is, which one can beat obama, which might be a risk in the fall and i think that this thing is so wide open right now, so it's equal right now. you have a lot of debates coming. it's no longer about who can put out the most tv commercials. last week rick santorum, most people felt won the debate thursday night. we have two coming up this week, including one on cnn thursday night and we're looking forward to another winning debate. >> final question, the one thing rick santorum has done is propel
himself almost from nowhere into serious contender here. if he ends up to be a running mate to newt gingrich or mitt romney, and i accept you're not going to throw the towel in, but would he be prepared to be a running mate to either or both of those candidates? >> not even looking at that right now. rick santorum is in this race to be the next president of the united states. he feels he's the best contrast of obama. he didn't support mandates. like the other two, he didn't support the bailouts. unlike the other two, he had significant foreign policy experience. rick santorum believes he's the trusted conservative that can be the next president of the united states, has the best opportunity to beat obama and that's where the focus will remain. >> thank you very much for your time. >> thank you, sir, and thank you for a great interview. i think that's the first time
that ever happened. our phones have been ringing off the hook saying it was a great interview and i think you got a lot of fans last night. >> it's a great family and i thoroughly enjoyed meeting them all. >> well, thank you. when we come back, why south carolina's evangelicals went for gingrich and a look ahead to the battle in florida. [ male announcer ] the cadillac cts sport sedan was designed with near-perfect weight balance from front to back... and back to front. ♪ giving you exceptional control
we went out and all across this country in these three states, let me assure you, we will go to florida, we're going to arizona, colorado, and everywhere else. >> three states, three winners, now the focus shifts to florida. joining me now is the chairman of that state's republican party. and the president of the southern baptist convention and senior pastor of johnson ferry baptist church. mr. curry, let me start with you. all eyes on florida. this is a crucial primary now, isn't it? >> it's all about florida. for over a year now, we've been saying florida is the place to be. i say welcome to florida. over 4 million registered republicans where our primary is under way with over 200,000 votes cast of today. >> the polls at the moment have romney ahead at 43%.
newt gingrich at 18%. but i would imagine after tonight these could change rapidly. we saw a movement in south carolina which really was dramatic, in favor of gingrich and away from romney. what do you expecting to happen in florida? >> i think, you know, it's like in the nfl, on any given sunday now we ore down to the final four, these are all professionals, great resumes, they know what they're doing. so on any given debate, the last two debates in florida, particularly the one hosted by cnn and the republican party of florida here in jacksonville, is going to be critical in voters making up their minds. >> lots of rumors flying around that jeb bush will be endorsing mitt romney. but that now appears to be untrue and in fact, what we're hearing is that he decided not to give an endorsement to anybody. what are you hearing? >> i'm hearing he's not planning
on endorsing. we've seen this primary season, a lot of surprises. i expect florida to remain competitive and volatile until the last debate. >> let's bring in brian now. the evangelical issue in south carolina was fascinating. everybody expected newt gingrich to catch a load of flak for his marital baggage, particularly with his ex-wife giving this dramatic interview, but it seemed to galvanize a lot of evangelicals into supporting him. why do you think that happened? >> i think people are most of all looking to see a candidate that can defeat barack obama, that are thinking about supporting the republican candidate for presidency. i think when newt gingrich came across so strong in the debates, it really galvanized a lot of folks in wanting to support him. it was an obvious, dramatic change because of the debates.
and i think the gingrich cam probably needs to write a thank you note to john king for that opening question, because it really threw a softball to newt that he was prepared for that caused people to be excited how he responded. >> i'm not sure softball is the right word. it was a valid question based on this sense that in previous elections this kind of bombshell of an ex-wife coming out and making all kinds of claims of open marriage and so on would be incredibly damaging to his campaign. but the way that newt handled this was so right on the point. he went after john king. he went after his ex-wife. he went after the whole thing. at the end of it, the crowd gave him a standing ovation, and you could almost feel voters in south carolina rushing to the polls. >> there's no doubt that people in social can respond to that kind of fighting spirit to stand up to those who may have a
viewpoint that they really have a strong disagreement with. it is going to be interesting to see over the course of time, though, for evangelical voters that marriage is a sacred calling. people of adultery happening two times, it's going to be interesting to see how that will affect evangelical voters. obviously that will be a concern to a lot of folks, and yet people right now are so interested in finding a candidate that can be successful in the election. >> it seems to me that they're more concerned with somebody that can beat barack obama than they are about his marital woes 15, 20 years ago. thank you both very much. >> glad to be with you. >> a pleasure. coming up, what went right for newt gingrich in south carolina and what went so wrong for mitt romney? that's after the break.
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>> that was ron paul earlier tonight. so what's next? joining me now is the son of ronald reagan. welcome to you all. michael, few interesting things, most of which you reminded me that your father was the first divorced man to become president. so this whole debate about newt gingrich's marital baggage, you could argue that tonight the people of south carolina, very evangelical lot, have said we don't care. >> yes, because i think the issues are much different than in 1980 when my father ran, but the campaign was scared to death that ronald reagan had been married to my mother jane wyman.
so it was something that was worked on during the campaign. but things changed and 30 years later you're in the middle of what's going on with newt gingrich. you're right, people look at the fact that barack obama needs to be replaced as the main issue, not the private life of one of those who is running for office, which my father would not have paid to the private life at all, because we had that discussion in 1960 with richard nixon and kennedy. >> andrew brightbart, let me bring you in. let's talk about the issue of newt gingrich's morality or otherwise. there was this pivotal moment in that debate when john king, off the top of the debate, put it
directly to him and gingrich went on the attack and he went on a fantastic kind of assault back. and all the media started dwelling on what he believes is trivial nonsense. do you believe that was a turning point for dealing with that kind of baggage? >> we've got a situation here where newt gingrich right now, before that, you had chris christie, donald trump, any candidate that goes out there and attacks the main stream media immediately gains 20 points amongst conservatives. the people in south carolina had been attacked merslessly, whether for their evangelical faith or for supporting the tea party by the main stream media. so they're looking for somebody out there who is going to defend them when they know that there's a double standard in the media. four years ago, the media knew
that john edwards was carrying on an affair while he was claiming to be a family values liberal, while his wife had cancer. and everybody knew in the main stream media that he was carrying on that affair. yet on the eve of this debate, abc news played that thing up against newt gingrich. they saw that as dirty tricks and they voted for him because he stood up to what is going to be a media defense of president obama in this election cycle. >> amy, let me bring you in here. this is all quite good for barack obama, because you've got the heavyweights of the republican party right now just taking lumps out of each other efficient are two seconds. all this stuff accumulates and becomes a rather useful punch bag for barack obama when he works out who is nominee is
going to be, isn't snit >> sure. president obama gets to sit back, eat the popcorn and watch the show. he doesn't have to spend his only money attacking any of his potential opponents and he can use all of these attacks and accusations in a whole string of clips in his own ads. he can say, and his rival candidate, whether it's romney or gingrich or rick santorum or ron paul, he can quote them out of their own mouths against whoever he is up too. but i want to get back to andrew's point about the media and how newt gingrich so successfully put the media in the cross hairs. public policy polling found that 77% of south carolina gop primary voters have an up favorable view of the media and newt gingrich talked about the media elite. so the media i think in attacking newt gingrich by saying they were somehow, i don't know, doing something favorable for the electorate,
that they could explore this character issue, that was thrown back in their face. >> wait a minute, amy what you may also be seeing is some brilliant politics by newt gingrich. at the end of the debate, the first thing he said is, john king did a great job. of course he did, because he put the question to him. newt gingrich would feign outrage, go on the attack and it was a vote winner in the way he defended himself. i thought john king was perfectly right to ask the question and ask it off the top. but newt gingrich was also perfectly entitled to go on the attack. michael, go ahead. >> what it is about is how you react. newt gingrich reacted correctly. he hit it out of the park. look at mitt romney, reacting to, are you going to let us see your taxes? >> he was weak on that. >> he's so weak on that. i think i tweeted the other day,
i would rather go down swinging with newt than muttering with mitt. mitt can't find his voice and newt gingrich has found his voice. >> andrew, come in there, that's a good point, isn't it? >> whether mitt romney wants to accept it or not, the last three years was the era of the ascendancy of the tea party and he's done everything he can to say -- he likes to parrot tea party phrases and ideas that are out there only because of the tea party, but he wants to distance himself from the people that were ma lined by the media. they see that defensiveness. they see the distance that he's created between the tea party and people out there don't feel like he's been in the trenches defending them. >> piers, i want to get to your point that newt demonstrated how to handle one of the greatest liabilities. what's so strange about it is
mitt romney is rich. he started bane capital. he was engaged in all of this kind of thinking, yet he doesn't have an articulate explanation or defense or however you want to put it. it reminds me of rudy giuliani when he was running and one of the questions he got was about being pro choice and he didn't have an adequate answer. >> michael, final word. >> there are two republican parties, the rockefeller republicans and the reagan conservative republicans. the battle is between those two republican parties tonight. tonight, the reagan republicans won. >> michael reagan, a good night for all reagan conservatives i would imagine. andrew, nice that you and i pamped things up. andrew, thank you for your yinlts shun, too. >> thank you. just ahead, the truth about mitt romney, the capitalist and the guy who wrote the book about him.
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on the face of it, he has a brilliant resume to be president. and yet at the moment, this message is being translated into he doesn't understand the cares and concerns of ordinary people. he's a job slayer, not creator and so on. why is he going wrong in selling this message? >> it's interesting, because we go back to 1994 when he ran for the u.s. senate. there were ads run by the edward kennedy campaign against him saying he was killing jobs. this should not be a surprised a all. and those tax returns that you brought up, in '94, mitt romney challenged ted kennedy to release his tax returns. kennedy obviously being very wealthy. kennedy declined. and romney said, if rereleases his tax returns, i'll release mine. if romney continue tols say
maybe or i'm not sure or a few years, it will just continue to be asked about him and people will say you challenged kennedy, what about yourself? you really need to see the tax returns from 1984, at least to 1999, because that's the time he ran bane capital. so then you would learn what he learned at companies that may have been closed down. you've got a much better idea. but if he only says the last few years, there will be all these questions raised about this. >> i suppose the suspicion is growing is that in these returns are some murky stuff. tell me about bane, for example, because you could argue that bane just did what other companies do, they go along and bail out struggling companies, they make cuts to improve the business, and yes, they want to make a profit, but by doing so, they've saved a lot of jobs. there are two ways in looking at
what they did. >> the problem is that the american public doesn't understand finance very well. his campaign is saying, let's take the nfl strategy. we're in the fourth quarter and we've got a little bit of a lead. so instead of going on the offense here, we're just going to run the ball, we're going to go to the prevent defense. and what happens in those scenarios is the other teams start saying i've got nothing to lose and they start chipping away at that lead. i think the same thing is happening to romney. he's on the right side of this issue. it's all about the economy, and he has a track record not just at bane, but in massachusetts, and in the olympics, as well. and he's turned around everything that he's touched. but somehow the campaign has him scared to come out and take that stand. if you look at the one time he got applause in that debate, it's when he said i'm not going to apologize for my success. and everybody went, yeah, and then he backed off.
i think he needs to bring it and own it and say i'm not going to apologize. i turned things around. we need to turn around this economy and he'll be in good standing then. >> let me bring in scott there. what i do know from watching him, the body language of mitt romney all week and newt gingrich is that mitt romney now looks on the defensive and newt gingrich looks on the attack and gaining confidence. from what you know about mitt romney when you did this book, it seems strange that a guy that's run such huge businesses and been so successful wouldn't do more chest beating about this. why isn't he showing more passion? >> i think one of the big problems for him is is the occupy movement. income and equality is the issue everyone has been talking about and it's the unissue that's really uncomfortable for him. he's incredibly wealthy and he's not done a good job showing that
he can empathize with people who aren't. look at his comments the past few weeks, like his speaking fees of $375,000 weren't that much money. in some ways, that is his biggest opponent. the occupy movement in sort of the consciousness that that occupies. because look, like you just said, i don't think people begrudge his wealth. they want to be successful. but are you comfortable in that and do you know how to talk to people and get down on a level and say i get it, i've been there, i've had friends who are there and he's not been able to do that. >> he hasn't articulated -- >> when he dismisses the money from speaking, which is $350,000 or whatever, that's a lot of money, isn't it? we've got to leave it there, scott, carol, michael, a pleasure talking to you. that's all for us tonight. monday, i'll talk to the second lady of the united states, jill
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