tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN March 22, 2012 1:00am-2:00am EDT
we'll play for you uncensored in a moment. first, the breaking news which happened just moments ago in sanford, florida, where david mattingly joins us live. david, sanford city commissioners passed a no-confidence motion in the local police chief. what exactly does that mean? does it mean anything? >> reporter: anderson, this was a no confidence vote. they voted 3-2 in no confidence in the city's police chief bill lee. this is really a nonbinding vote, but it demonstrates to the police chief that he no longer has the support of the city commission here. and what it is saying is that they're now going to be looking into more details. they're not going to make a decision right away. it doesn't mean that the chief is fired. but they are going to be looking into deeply in his handling of
this killing of trayvon martin. and the chief has only been in office less than a year now. he does not have the support right now of the current mayor of the city, jeff triplette. i watched the mayor earlier today as he was sitting side by side with leaders of the naacp as people who live here were coming forward telling stories about how for years that they have had problems with the police force here. he said at that time that there's going to be a lot of work to do to correct some of these problems and tonight might have been the first step that he was talking about. anderson? >> david, let me ask you about the investigation, because are the local police there and they've been criticized by the family of trayvon martin, obviously the attorney for that family, but are the local police there still investigating this or because the fbi and justice department are investigating, because there's going to be a grand jury, have they taken over the investigation? do we know?
>> reporter: the investigation itself is relatively over in terms of what the police are doing. but it's still open in case something else comes up or someone else comes forward to give them more information. they are still leaving it open in that respect. but they have turned everything over that they have to the state's attorney. that state's attorney is looking at it, and they're going to be calling a grand jury in april to look over the evidence they have to decide if they're going to come out with any charges with anyone involved in this case. >> all right, david mattingly, appreciate the breaking news update. thank you. pressure is building on the local police there for days. the question, as david mentioned, center on how fully did police in sanford, florida, investigate george zimmerman and his claim of self-defense in accordance with florida's deadly force law or did they just take his word on it? his family says the cops are covering up, the family -- >> they're actually trying to sweep our son's death under the rug. trayvon was a person. you know, he wasn't just a statistic. he was loved by his family. he was loved by his friends.
>> well, they, the family, the protesters tonight, the naacp and others believe the police took george zimmerman's claim at face value and left it at that. now recall that sanford police chief bill lee said before florida and the justice department launched their own investigations, quote, we don't have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense. why wasn't zimmerman tested for drugs or alcohol whereas the dead teenager, trayvon martin, was tested? what, if anything, did police know about george zimmerman's long record of phoning nuisances or suspicious people or his arrest with scuffle with an undercover police officer? he entered a pretrial diversion program allowing him to keep his record clean and that might have been missed. so what about zimmerman's call to 911? now critics say his own words should have been evidence enough to form probable cause that he was pursuing trayvon martin and not acting in self-defense. >> are you following him? >> yeah.
>> okay, we don't need you to do that. >> okay. >> the final question centers on another phone call, one that was taking place literally at the same time between trayvon and his girlfriend. what, if anything, did police know about that? did they even check trayvon's phone records or contact his girlfriend? the martin family attorney says they haven't spoke with her and abc is reporting that she gave crumb a sworn affidavit. she says this about her final conversation with treyvon. i quote, "he said this man was watching him so he put his hoody on, said he lost the man. she went on to say " i asked trayvon to run and he said he was going to walk fast. i told him to run but he said he was not going to run. she said the man caught up to trayvon. he said what you are following me for? the man said what are you doing here? next thing i hear is somebody pushing and somebody pushed trayvon because the headset just fell. what, if anything, did police know about that account which in addition to the 911 call seem to cast doubt on george zimmerman's claim of self-defense.
that is one of the many questions these marchers tonight have that trayvon martin's family have and have had for weeks. you saw a moment ago trayvon's parents are here in new york tonight. i spoke with them on my day time syndicated program "anderson" which the interview tomorrow and two neighbors who is there and who witnesses who were there when trayvon was shot. the eyewitnesses say that some of them believe it was your son calling out for help. no one directly saw him doing it or could say 100% for sure. you heard the 911 call where you hear somebody calling out help. do you believe that is your son's voice? >> yes, i do. i believe that is trayvon martin. that is my baby's voice. every mother knows their child. and that's his voice. >> and the fact that -- if that's true and he called out for help, what does that tell you? >> he was afraid for his life. he saw his death coming.
he saw his death coming. the screams got more franticker and at that second that we heard the shot, the screams just completely stopped. he saw his death. he was pleading for his life. >> so you're saying if it was zimmerman screaming for help that might have continued after the shot. but the fact that after the shot there was no more screaming for help. >> no more scream whatsoever. went completely silent. >> when you both went outside, you saw george zimmerman where and where was trayvon martin? >> she was out the door first. when i came out the door, i saw him basically straddling him. he had, you know, feet on either side of his body. and his hands at the time i didn't know was on his back. and -- >> trayvon was face down? >> trayvon was face down.
once he got off the body, we could see that his face was down in the grass. so at the time that he was holding his back, i didn't know if he was trying to help him, hold the wound or -- someone asked him several times, three times, what's going on? is everything okay? and each time he looked back, but he didn't say anything until the third time he just said just call the police. >> we'll have that complete interview on my daytime show tomorrow. last week george zimmerman's father told "the orlando sentinel" that the family is receiving death threats. his son pursued him live. a long time friend is defending the george zimmerman that he says he knows. i spoke to him late yesterday. so mr. taffy, you know george zimmerman. what is he like? >> george zimmerman is a very congenial, admirable person.
he was very, very kind to everyone in our community. and i really appreciated and so did the rest of our residents in our neighborhood that he stepped up and took over the position as neighborhood watch captain to ensure the safety of all the residents in our community. >> you say he actually stopped a potential burglary at your house a couple weeks ago before the shooting? >> that is correct. >> and were you surprised that he was carrying a gun? were you aware he carried a gun? >> i was extremely shocked to the fact that he was carrying a gun, yes. >> what shocked you? how did it shock you? >> the lethal weapon. it wasn't george. as i said, he was a very congenial man. amiable man.
the use of a lethal weapon, a deadly lethal weapon as a .9 millimeter that he used was very shocking to me. it just didn't fit the person. >> have there been burglaries in your neighborhood? what is the neighborhood like? >> i have lived at twin lakes since 2006, july 2006. in the last 15 months, anderson, we have experienced 8 burglaries, 1 which was perpetrated during the daylight hours. most, the majority of the perpetrators were young black males. >> and i mean when you reflect on what's happened and what we know about and obviously a lot isn't known, what do you think? >> this was a perfect storm. you had a neighborhood that was experiencing extremely high
tension, anxiety and with the burglaries, everybody was at -- pardon my phrase, we were at defcon five. >> i guess, you know, a lot of people believe race played a factor in this. from what you know about george zimmerman, do you believe race played a factor? >> absolutely not. >> why do you feel so strongly about that? >> george is not a racist. he was just performing his duties as watch captain, whether it be african-american, latino, asian or white. he would have done the same thing. he would approach that person and just ask them what is your business here? and if he just answered him in an appropriate manner as, you know, i'm just here visiting, my mother's house is around the
corner and be up front and truthful, there wouldn't have been any problem. >> well, mr. taffy, i appreciate your perspective. thank you for being with us. >> thank you, anderson. >> we're trying to get as many different perspectives of people in that community to you tonight. let us know what you think. we're on facebook, google plus, follow me on twitter. @andersoncooper. i'll be tweeting tonight. much more on the killing of trayvon martin. did george zimmerman use a racial slur when he called 911? we're going to play you the tape uncensored. you can decide for yourself. he says something under his breath. a lot of people believe it is a racial slur. we're going to play it for you. you can determine. what's important about that, the reason we're doing that because if it was a racial slur, that might allow the federal government to bring charges based on what was in george zimmerman's head based on him saying a racial slur. so it has a very important legal role and could really influence
what role the federal government has moving forward in this. so that's why we're going to play it for you. we're going to look at what role florida's controversial stand your ground law also played in the shooting death of a young husband and father, another case that raised a lot of questions. we'll be right back. this is $100,000. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much, i appreciate it, i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money ? if your bank takes more money than a stranger,
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takes away a duty for someone in jeopardy to retreat if possible and replaces it with a legal permission to stand your ground and use deadly force. now, nationwide, 21 states now have stand your ground laws. since passing the law, violent crime in florida has dropped but to be fair, it's also fallen nationwide. more significantly, justifiable homicides as in the kind that george zimmerman is claiming and the martin family is disputing, those have spiked in florida. they more than doubled since the stand your ground law passes. randi kaye has a story of a life cut short and a case under way. watch. >> reporter: when david james, an iraq war veteran, escaped combat in the middle east unscathed, his wife kanina, breathed a sigh of relief. >> i would worry about him. but i thought he would be safe here. >> reporter: she was wrong. and now wants to know why trevor duely, a 71-year-old retired bus driver shot her husband in broad daylight right in front of their 8-year-old daughter.
duely says it was self-defense. kanina james calls it murder. >> what person brings a gun to a park when there's children? i mean, he killed my husband. he could have just talked to him. >> reporter: whether or not trevor duely fired in self-defense is at the heart of this case. also central to the story is duely's defense, florida's stand your ground law. it allows a person to stand their ground and use deadly force if they fear someone could seriously harm them. here's what witnesses say happened on that september sunday in 2010. 41-year-old david james was playing basketball with his daughter here when witnesses say duely who lived right across the street started yelling at a teenager who was skate boarding to get off the court. that's when witnesses say james intervened.
james yelled back to duely asking him to show where any signs said no skateboarding. duely then crossed the street to the park to confront james. a tennis player at the park, michael witt, testified things turned ugly when duely reached for his waistband. witt said james that lunged at due du duely. the two men struggled on the ground before james was shot once through the heart. on the 911 call, witt is heard trying to help. >> sir, can you hear me? kir, can you hear me? sir, can you hear me? he's not in the chest, ma'am. >> he's not breathing? >> he's not breathing. >> mr. duely, what do you want to say about what happened? >> no comment. >> reporter: duely tells a different story that contradicts the witnesses. he says when he took the gun out of his right front pocket, james saw it and knocked him to the ground. at a hearing to get the charges dismissed, duely testified, "he was choking me to death."
>> you agree you do not want to go to prison for killing david james. do you think you should? yes or no? >> no. >> reporter: duely's lawyer said that his client turned to walk away towards home and james was saying that duely did pull a gun but didn't use it until he felt his life was threatened. he says the charges against his client should be dropped given the stand your ground law. his wife says her husband of 13 years had never been aggressive. he was a gentle family man. she believes he was trying to protect himself and their daughter danielle after he saw duely pull a gun. >> he loved danielle so much. that breaks my heart that trevor duely took my daughter's best friend away from her. she'll never have her daddy. >> reporter: danielle's testimony about how and why the
situation turned violent is key in a case that hinges on self-defense. danielle now 10 recalled how her father asked duely where the signs were that said no skate boarding on the court. >> my dad got on top of him so he could keep him down so he could get the answer. >> where were your dad's hands? >> on his arms. >> on the man's arms? >> yeah. >> reporter: the little girl then recalled her father's last moments. >> i think the guy pulled out the gun then. >> did you hear anything? >> yeah. >> what did you hear? >> like when it shot. >> you heard a gunshot? >> yeah. >> did your dad say anything then? >> yeah. >> what did he say? >> call the ambulance. i've been shot. >> reporter: when kanina james got there, her husband was already dead, and her daughter was crying, asking why isn't anyone helping my daddy? randi kaye, cnn,
valrico, florida. >> so the stand your ground law may be at the heart of this case moving forward. let's take a closer look at the controversial law. i talked with florida state legislator, a man named dennis backsly, a co-sponsor of stand your ground and jeffrey toobin. representative baxly, i know you don't want to get ahead of the grand jury. i totally understand the reasoning behind that. from what you know about the killing of trayvon martin, do you believe that the man who fired the gun, george zimmerman, should be protected by the stand your ground law, a law that you are one of the co-sponsors of? >> well, the castle doctrine, this bill also referred to, stand your ground has always has been about protecting people from violent attack. there is nothing in this statute that provides for a person to be able to pursue and confront other people. so i think any individual is on very thin ice when they get
outside the realm of that protection. >> jeff, you wrote a column today, essentially saying that the folks behind this law have a lot to answer for. >> absolutely. representative baxley, let me ask you. wouldn't florida be a safer place under the old law which said if you're carrying a gun in your pocket and you're on a public street and you get involved in a confrontation, you have a duty to step back and let the police handle it instead of firing your gun yourself. wouldn't florida be safer with the duty to retreat? >> well, in fact, florida's not unique. this very statute went to 26 more states after it left here. so we're really in line with about half the country or more, more than half the country. and, in fact, the difficulty with the duty to retreat is it's really a monday morning quarterback armchair situation where you're saying a person could have done something different. when you're in that moment and you're under attack, you have to make a decision. do you want to be the victim or
do you want them to be the victim that's the perpetrator of this action against you? so i'm going to stand on the side of law-abiding citizens and say, you have the right to defend yourself from harm. >> were you surprised to hear somebody in a neighborhood watch was carrying a weapon, was carrying a gun? >> i was, because from what i've heard about the crime watch programs that typically that is not part of the scenario because of what could happen. so there is a lot of questions to be answered in that regard. and there may be more legislation in that regard. but i would really hate to dilute the protection that we provided law-abiding sit sengs to act in the interest of their families and themselves. >> so you don't believe that stand your ground needs to be rewritten in any way? >> no, i don't. i think there may be other legislation. but i would hate to di men negotiation the fact that we have truly developed a policy that allows people to prevent bad things from happening to them and their families. and it's been successful. >> jeff toobin,
from your perspective what ways raises questions? >> what raises question is it essentially gives private citizens the license to say, hey, i feel threatened, so i'm going to fire my gun. i think that is why we have a trained police force. that is not why -- that is not a safe situation, whether it's -- >> well, here's the flaw with your analysis. you know, one of my five children is a deputy sheriff. and he says, dad, you need to be prepared. you need to carry a firearm in your vehicle because usually when we bet there, it's all over. we can't be everywhere that these things happen. and people are looking for -- we have a very high -- >> representative, with all due respect to your son, isn't it true that most florida law enforcement oppose this law? >> no, not at all. i can tell you, i've had a lot of feedback from law enforcement officers telling me that -- >> i know you've had feedback afterwards, but when it was before the legislature, florida law enforcement opposed changing the duty to retreat because they
think they're trained to use weapons and it's not a good idea to give private citizens a license to shoot when they feel threatened. >> that's not the opinion on the street where this happens. they understand -- >> i know it's the opinion on one street in orlando these days. >> you can be the victim of violence and you have to be prepared to take care of yourself and your family. and you need to empower law-abiding citizens to be able to do that. that doesn't mean we don't have great empathy. i'll tell you right now, you know, i've spent 40 years in funeral service taking care of families and friends who have gone through just such tragedies. and my heart goes out to them. and i offer the martin family my sincere sympathy and condolence. at the same time, we want to make sure we continue to protect other families who are the subject of an invasion and attack. and they should be empowered to stop bad things from happening. they have. they did. and for that reason i think the
statute has been a success. >> representative baxley, i appreciate your time tonight and jeff toobin as well, thank you. >> thank you. i appreciate your call. >> still ahead tonight, did george zimmerman use a racial slur moments before killing trayvon martin on that 911 tape? we tried to clean up the background noise as much as possible. on the recording. we're going to play it for you ahead without beeping out anything so you can decide for yourself because this is really crucial moving forward to whether or not the federal government gets involved in what they might charge george zimmerman with if they choose to. we'll be right back. and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project in canada, we'll be able to produce these oil sands with the same emissions as many other oils and that's a huge breakthrough. that's good for our country's energy security and our economy.
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updating our breaking news, the city of sanford passing a no-confidence vote in the wake of the trayvon martin killing. up close tonight what george zimmerman said or did not said in a 911 call moments before he shot trayvon martin. did he use a racist slur? there is a debate raging over two words that zimmerman used in the call or may have used. some hear an ugly racial insult and an expletive. others hear nothing of the sort. according to abc news, the sanford police department admitted that investigators missed a possible racist remark in the call. when cnn asked the sanford police department about that abc report, this is what sergeant david morgue anstern told us. "i said we didn't hear it. however, i'm not sure what was said. so i never said we missed a racist remark. he went on to say, "i'm not sure what was said. i heard something but, again, not clear as to what was said.
i did not hear it until it was pointed out to me." now, before we tell you what the alleged slur is, we're going to let you listen for yourself with fresh ears and make up your own mind what you hear. for that, we enlisted the help of one of cnn's top audio engineers. we need to warn some of you the language you're going to hear is offensiv offensive, but we're going to play it for you without bleeping anything because it's evidence, and if we bleep it, you're going to have a harder hoof time hearing what some believe is a racial slur. this is gary tuchman. >> this is room 31 at cnn center in atlanta. this is one of the most sophisticated audio edit suites in the news business. here is our audio design specialist. he's one of the best audio experts in the business. rick, if you can, i have not listened to this portion of 911 tape at all. i just want to hear it raw right now if you could play maybe ten seconds before and let's listen. >> which entrance is he headed for in the neighborhood? >> which entrance is he headed for? >> the back entrance. >> you may not have heard the
moment in question because it was so quick. how long does that portion last that everyone is talking about? >> a second, 18 frames. >> a second, 18 frames. so that's about 1.6 seconds. >> correct. >> so let's listen to it ten times in a row if we can. >> okay. >> what we're listen iing for is the racial slur coons. it follows the "f" word. some people say they hear it, others say they don't. it certainly a lot clearer when we listen to it that way. >> correct. >> is there anything else we can do with the audio to make it clearer? >> well, you can -- i already did a little boosting at 2.4 kilohertz and at 4.6 kilohertz that, is boosting the high end of the voice. >> what rick has done is lowered the bass. so why is it that you want to get rid of the low end of the audio, the bass, the audio? >> to minimize the noise. >> so that takes away the noise. and allows us to hear the voice more clearly? >> that's correct.
i'll boost it up a little bit more there. and we'll give it a shot here. >> that does sound a little clearer to me. it sounds like this allegation could be accurate. but i wouldn't swear to it in court. that's what it sounds like to me. >> very difficult to really pinpoint what he is saying. >> rick, can we play just that second word, what we think the second word is and hear? [ mumbling ] >> i mean it certainly sounds like that word to me but you can't be sure. that sounds even more like the word than using it with the "f" word before that. >> that's correct. >> only george zimmerman knows if he used the slur. but he's not talking. so the phone call like so much of this case remains a mystery here. gary tuchman, atlanta. >> it's fascinating to hear
isolated like that. let us know what you think on twitter. let's talk about why this is so important, whether or not he used that slur. senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin is joining us on the phone right now. jeff, legally, why does this matter? >> it's extremely, extremely significant because the federal government is not allowed to prosecute just your ordinary everyday murder. two people fighting on the street is not a federal crime. however, if one person shoots another based on racial hostility, racial animus, that does become a federal crime, and if very shortly before the murder, zimmerman used this racial epithet to refer to the person he ultimately shot, that very much puts it within the fbi and the justice department. gambit of a case that they could prosecute.
we know on the 911 tape, he used the word a-holes and say they always get away. we don't know what he means by they in reference to trayvon martin. the other thing i want to ask you about which we're getting a lot of response to on twitter, we had a person that used to be on a neighborhood watch and knew george zimmerman and defended him though he was surprised he was carrying a guy saying had trayvon martin simply answered george zimmerman's question about what are you doing here, none of this would have happened. a lot of response on twitter is why should anybody have to ask -- answer a question if some guy, you know, has no real authority to ask that question? is there any responsibility that somebody has to answer a question from some neighborhood watch guy? >> well, in the united states of america, you don't even have to answer a police officer under the fifth amendment. you have the right to remain silent. as everybody knows, but you certainly don't have any obligation to answer some guy who is calling himself a neighborhood watch officer and most importantly if you refuse
to answer or even if you answer inappropriately, we don't have the death penalty for failing to answer. so the idea that trayvon's inappropriate answer is somehow justification for george zimmerman to shoot him dead on the street is completely preposterous. >> jeff toobin, appreciate you calling in. appreciate it. thank you very much. again, let us know what you think on twitter. we're having this conversation right now in realtime@andersoncooper. it should have been a good day for mitt romney. but then one of his senior advisors started talking about etch-a-sketches. how much did the remarks do? "raw politics" next. [ snoring continues ] [ male announcer ] because snoring sounds better than coughing. introducing gold choice. the freedom you can only get from hertz to keep the car you reserved or simply choose another.
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raw politics. after his decisive win in illinois mitt romney picked up an endorsement from jeb bush. here's the answer. >> well, i think he hit a reset button for the fall campaign. everything changes. it's almost like an etch a sketch. you can kind of shake it up and we start all over again. >> now everything changes like an etch a sketch. romney's rivals long accused him of obviously changing his stripes to win votes. they jumped on the remarks. here is newt gingrich campaigning in louisiana. >> you have to stand for something positive, and you have to stand -- pardon me. let me borrow this for a second. you have to stand for something that lasts longer than this.
>> rick santorum also showed up in louisiana with an etch a sketch in hand. >> you're not looking for someone who is the etch a sketch candidate. you're looking for someone who writes what they believe in in stone and stays true to what they say. [ applause ] >> as for the aide, he seemed to back-pedal in this statement saying "i was talking about the race as we move from the primary to the general election, the campaign changes. it's a different race with different candidates and a focus on different issues." meanwhile, his boss seemed to say something very different. >> the issues i'm running on will be exactly the same. i'm running against a conservative republican. i was a conservative republican governor. i'll be running as a conservative republican nominee, at that point hopefully, nominee for president, that the policies and positions are the same. >> joining me now, kevin madden, republican strategist and adviser of the romney campaign and santorum spokesperson
alice stewart. so my producer currently has 68 e-mails in her inbox with etch sketch in the subject line. does this feed into an existing narrative and criticism about governor romney that he'll change his positions to get elected? >> i think on a day like this in the campaign, anderson, you have to ask yourself what matters to voters? and i don't think something like this matters to voters. i mean, we're in an atomized news cycle where gaffes like this get attention. but the person that filled up their card today with $4 gas and the person worried about losing a job or can't find a job, they're wholly un concernconcerned with this type of discussion and debate that we have in -- about the internal dynamics of what staffers say on campaigns. and i think that was borne out by the fact that the governor has spent his entire campaign, particularly in a place like illinois, that was so important, focused on the economy, focused on the big issues, focused about the issues that he is going to use to beat barack obama in a general
election. i think going forward, that's exactly what the campaign does, focuses on the economy, focuses on the governor's issue and his vision. >> alice, obviously your campaign has been having a bit of fun with this. they showed up at a romney campaign with free etch a sketches. the fact is -- i mean your boss suffered a pretty big loss last night in illinois. you'd much rather spend the day talking about etch a sketches than delegate counts. is it fair to be harping on this? >> it is, anderson. and with all due respect to kevin, this does matter to voters. because there has been the perception for quite some time as what will mitt romney do as things progress? he talks a good conservative game. but you look at his record. he's been very liberal on many of the key issues that voters are concerned with. being a romney care, which was the prototype for obama care. he was pro-boors. he was for cap and trade. he was for many issues that don't tow the conservative line. and what basically we heard from the romney camp this morning confirmed all the speculation was that if he wins the
nomination and the primary, he's going to abandon his conservative principles and create a candidate that he'll need for the general. this is what the voters will see if he gets the nomination, a blank slate. we're going to go back to the middle. >> your candidate has a problem with anybody who is not a very conservative voter or an evangelical voter or a rural voter. your candidate is having real problems in the suburbs among women, among essential voters. who are going to be in a general election. why should anyone believe he has a path to a nomination? >> well, evidently, mitt romney has a problem with that. the voters have a problem with that. >> he has more delegates and has more popular votes by your candidate by far. >> certainly. he's also outspending us 21-1 in chicago. >> yes. >> but such is the life in the -- >> but he's not energizing the base. he's not energizing conservatives around him. what we do need, we need a man-to-man debate. we need the two of them to go at it face-to-face on the issues. and when it comes to core
values, conservative values, they need to be etched in stone. they don't need to be on an etch a sketch and people realize that rick santorum is true to his convictions and has been in the past. >> kevin, is it fair for the santorum and gingrich campaign to be continuing to harp on the huge financial advantage and huge money difference that governor romney has? >> well, you know, i think all those type of issues are fair. again, does it matter to voters? no. i think the answer to that clearly is no. i mean look, on campaigns, you need resources. you need organization. and you need a message. we happen to have all three. and the other campaigns are quite deficient in all three. so that's how you win campaigns. i think governor romney is winning on the strength of his message. and what happens is a lot of the resources that we use, we u it to get out a message about what he would do on the big issues, the economy, how he would turn that around, what he would do to drive down deficits and create jobs. that's why he's winning. >> kevin and alice, appreciate your time. >> thank you. up next, the latest on the
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will be giving away free copies of the alcoholism & addiction cure. to get yours, go to ssagesmalibubook.com. a "360" world view tonight. hundreds of police in france surrounding an apartment where suspected serial killer described as an al qaeda trained jihadist has been holed up for hours. a short time ago, there were explosions outside the apartment. frabs's interior minister's office says the explosions were a way to try
to pressure the 23-year-old suspect to surrender. cnn affiliate france 2 aired this is aing this is the suspect, mohammed merah. he's wanted in connection with seven murders in the past ten days. dan rivers is live in toulouse, france, with the latest on the standoff. dan, there's been some explosions in the last couple of hours. what's going on now? >> reporter: yeah, a couple more just in the last minute or so, anderson, at the end of the street. we're being told consistently by the interior ministry that the operation to get him out has not started yet. but we've certainly heard what sounded like gunshots and then what souped like a stun grenade in the last minute or so. so we will keep an eye on what's going on here. but we're now almost 21, 22 hours into this siege, and the suspected terrorist is homed up inside refusing to come out. all dialogue with negotiatesers is said to have broken down.
>> we've got new video of the suspect. how much do we know about this guy? >> reporter: well, mohammed merah was known to french intelligence. the 23-year-old who is thought to have been in terrorist training camps in afghanistan, traveled to pakistan, it's thought that he may have also been arrested and detained in afghanistan. some reports suggesting he was deported back to france by the u.s. certainly we're being told that he was under surveillance for some time here in france. and there will be really probing questions when all this is over about how and why french intelligence apparently let him slip through their fingers. just two weeks ago, he was before a court on a minor motor offenses and he seemed to disappear from the net. they didn't know where he was and then suddenly we have these killings. seven people over the last week or so, including three children shot at point blank range.
>> it's unbelievable. dan rivers, appreciate it tonight. still ahead, the "ridiculist." let's check in with isha sesay first with the "360" news and business. >> the united nations security council called on the assad government today to end the bloodshed in syria. but it's falling on deaf ears. neighborhoods were shelled in homs. as we said, at least 79 people were killed across syria today. a "360" follow, 19-year-old darrell degman of mississippi was sentenced to life in prison for the murder of a black man last year. james greg anderson was set upon by a group of young white men, beaten then driven by a truck driven by him. starbucks has reached an agreement to sell single serving coffee packs in green mountain's newest coffee machine which is called the view. investors pushed shares of green mountain up 12%. and talk about taking the plunge.
a young canadian woman who's confined to a wheelchair as you see there took a dive on a bungee cord while strapped into her chair. she won a contest son sored by a group who helps disabled people participate in extreme sports. wow! >> thank you. if you think getting a jury duty summons is kind of a pain, at least you're not getting it when in third grade. we'll explain on "the ridiculist." ♪ oh! [ baby crying ] ♪ what started as a whisper ♪ every day, millions of people choose to do the right thing. ♪ slowly turned to a scream ♪ there's an insurance company that does that, too. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? ♪ amen, omen
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time because in massachusetts a 9-year-old has been called for jury duty. that's right. the years old. his name is jacob. he's in the third grade. he likes to ride his bike, and he's been summoned to appear in the local district court on april 18 for jury selection. >> i got jury duty. i said, what's jury duty? summon for jury service. if you're picked, then you go up to the judge and then you say guilty or not guilty. if i was 18 or over, i'd have to go. >> jacob's grandmother says he's -- his birth year was incorrectly listed as 1982 instead of 2002. so not only has jacob been summoned for jury duty, he's also turning 30 this year, in the eyes of local jurisprudence. which is a lot to handle when you're 9 years old. his dad seems to be taking it all in stride. >> i think he'd do well. i think he's impartial. he'd be able to be objective as long as there's no jury tampering. if someone offered him an xbox game, he would do as they asked.
>> the jury commissioner says she's not sure exactly what went wrong. >> it could have been a data entry error at the town. it could have been -- it could have been on the census form that the parents fill out. >> or it could just be that they really, really want to get this kid on a jury because this actually isn't the first time he's been summoned. that's right. it happened once before when he was 2 years old. now, look, i don't want to be hyperbolic, but i'm not sure it's air tight, because a couple of years ago this cat got called for jury duty. his name is sal, sal esposito. sal esposito, feline jury, tonight on claw and order. so obviously the idea of cats being a juror, i mean it's absurd. they should only be alternates. just do not expect them to take diligent notes. but 9-year-old boys, why not? with all apologies to william golden, it might be kind of interesting to see an entire justice system made up of 9-year-old boys.
the recess would take on an entirely different meaning. it might be a nice stress reliever when everyone giggles every time the judge says civic duty. the good thing about getting a summons when you're 9, you don't have to go to the great lengths to get out of it. the finest example being liz lemon on "30 rock." >> i don't think it's fair for me to be on a jury because i can read thoughts. >> dismissed. >> welcome aboard. >> all right. that may seem extreme, but check this out, a few years ago in montana a man followed a notarized affidavit that said in part and i quote "apparently you mor ochlt rchlo morons understand knee the first time. i would rather count the wrinkles on my dog's [ bleep ] than sit on a jury. wow. that's quite a visual, isn't it? the point is, the next time you grumble about getting a jury summons just remember in the criminal justice system the people represented by two separate but equally important group -- the juries which are mostly full of kids and cats and