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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  May 4, 2012 1:00am-2:00am EDT

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says president obama is attacking women. you're only saying that >> that's not true. >> so when president obama wants to cut money from this that's not targeting women? >> president obama -- look -- >> yes or no? does that target women when president obama wants to take billions of dollars out of this? >>hen president obama is taking billions of dollars out of this, it's wrong and it will -- >> so he's targeting women? >> of course not. >> but republicans are? >> because -- yes. in this case? >> you have a bill in virginia that would -- >> i'm not talking about other instances. >> look, i feel this isn't rocket science. yohave a billi dollars in funding. overall, most of that is going to programs that are women-specific, but disproportionately benefit women. much of it -- >> you're saying that also because children -- they benefit everybody. i'm not arguing for cutting the program. it benefits everybody.
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>> but if you actually look at this, the majority of the people who benefit from this program m. >>actcheck.org said that's not true. you can't say that. i mean -- you look at the line item specific hiring of doct, anti-obesity, hiv, smoking. >> but if you take the anti-obesity, because you have more women of child bearing age who are obese, that goes to women. >> well, actually what it -- no, what it is mostly it goes to community grants to do things, environmental things like walking ths, which befit everyone. to say that a walking path benefits women more than men again -- i understand your argue. >> i think we're splitting hairs here. you have a program that disproportionately helps women, and earmarking thing, like for cervical and breast cancer screenings. this is part and parcel of what republicans have been doing all year. they're going to say, again,
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this isn't part of the war on women, but an attack on health care generally. i mean, come on. there's a way to pay for these student loans. and not -- and the rate doesn't double. that's to ask millionaires and billionaires to pay their fair share and not go after health care funding. >> it's a separate issue. appreciate i >> thanks for having me. the political impact of the debate with ari fleischer and hilary rosen. do you think it's accurate for moveon.org and i even the white house to be saying this specifically, this idea of, you know, the student loan bill by offsetting it by -- eliminating the preventative health services is part of an attack on women specifically? >> no you know, i looked at factcheck.org i think they're right. but i sympathize with moveon.org because it's hard to get into a discussion about how the republicans are screwing up the program and taking programs from
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the needy to serve ore programs for the needy. if you've decided that student loans is something that we ought to do to help, then don't do what y did two weeks ago which is pass $45 billion worth of tax cuts for the wealthy. fund student loans. >> but does it help your argument -- but to your point, but does it help the argument to be stretching the facts on this particular branch? there's plenty of things you can argue about if you want to argue about assault on women's health or war on women or whatever. this particular one doesn't seem to hold water. >> you know, the preventative health fund is a discretionary fund. in many instances it's into the secretary for the programs it will fund. and president bush and the house democrats are hoping they'll fund certain things and they're hoping they'll be programs for women and preventative health, whether it's obesity or other things. but again, like okay, you're right. you've got them on the specific language.
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buthat doesn't mean that that's like the end of the debate. the worthy debate here i think is how are the republicans choosing their priorities? they're not choosing the right priorities. >> ari, when the democrats voted to take money from this health care fund and when president obama talks about taking money from the health care fund, no one argues they're attacking women but when the repubcans try to do it they're attacking women. >> good for you, anderson. this is a total case of being absolute double standard by the democrats on this issue. president obama proposed $4 billion program. you know, the bigger problem here, anderson, when people say you can't turn anything and they turn it into the manufactured wars against women, wars against children, this is why the government is so big, spends so
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much and we have trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see. hilary decried the republican budgets. there are no budgets in washington. the senate hasn't passed a budget in three years. the house is at least trying. and president obama has given up on even trying to bring the parties together to achieve a consen us this year because it's an election year. he won't even try. >> that's not true. >> washington is broken and this is one of the biggest reasons why. it's picking the issues, war on women and children and people are trying to make rational decisions in washington. on the student loan, i don't know why the federal government is in the student loan business to begin with. this is something the private sector should be in. the government nationalized the studt loans. >> the private sector was in the business and they ripped off students and charged them usury rates and the federal government came in for very good reason, to regulate an out of control, greedy business. >> they didn't regulate it. they took it over. >> let's go back to the issue that ari raised which is where's
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the federal budget and how are these priorities being set? federal spending is down. when we look at the overall increase in jobs and -- they're increasing in the private sector not the public sector. we have a necessary choice about priorities to make. when the republicans push tax cuts instead of helping needy folks in the preventative health or food stamps or inay care, just the very things that they're going to be voting on on monday. on monday, the house budget committee is voting on a $300 billion bill which will give tax cuts again to people earning over $100 million and cut food stamps and cut day care and cut education support. you know, this is about priorities. this is not about a bloated budget. if this were about a bloated budget they wouldn't give tax cuts because t cuts cost money. >> ari? >> you know, anderson,
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moveon.org got two pinocchios for their ad, hilary gets four. >> no. >> and now it's $3.5 trillion, revenues are almost at 2.7 rate. the federal spending keeps skyrocketing and the economy under president obama is so weak. of course as a percentage it's come down. the economy is not doing well. government is going broke. the taxpayers are going broke. our children -- >> then stop giving money to rich people, ari. stop giving the money away then. >> there haven't been tax cuts passed. i don't know why hilary is saying give it away. president oba extended the tax rates for all americans not just one bracket. all americs. >> they haven't been passed -- >> we're all in deficits, we're all in debt. we're going broke. >> hilary, final note. >> ari is filibustering this. but mitt romney is going to
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increase the tax cuts to give more money away. if the republicans would worry about the federal budget they'd focus on pure spending cuts. they want to eliminate the federal programs for the needy while they give their friends a tax cuts. >> it's called trying to achieve growth which is something we haven't had for three years. >> i appreciate it. let us know what you think. we're on facebook, google plus. i'll be tweeting tonight. and the showdown over this man, a blind dissident who escaped house arrest, left the u.s. embassy. he said he was forced out, now he wants to get out of china entily. the question tonight, what is really going on and is the obama administration hanging him out to dry? mitt romney certainly thinks so. we'll talk to "new york times" and david gergen as well.
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tonight, the very high stakes drama of human rights activist, chen guangcheng. he made a direct appeal to congress on speakerphone and a translator delivered his message in english. >> translator: i want to meet with the secretary clinton. i hope i can get more help from her.
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i also want to thank her face to face. so the thing i most concerned right now is the safety of my mother, my brothers and i really want to know what's going on with them. >> we're going to put on the left-hand side of our screen a look at our signal in -- being broadcast in china. last night when we broadcast in china, we were taken off the air on cnn international. a clear example of censorship by the chinese regime. we'll be monitoring to see if we're taken off the air yet again in china. and chen is hoping the u.s. will assure the legal rights of his relatives. the 40-year-old blind activist is staying at a beijing hospital after leaving the u.s. embassy yesterday. you'll remember he took refuge at the embassy just days before
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secretary of state hillary clinton was scheduled to arrive there for trade talks. the situation has only gotten more complicated. chen left the embassy willingly and never told them he wanted to leave china, but he says he was pressured to leave the embassy and he hopes to get on a plane with secretary clinton when she leaves. mark toner was asked what the u.s. plans to do. >> we're not sure what his intentions are, what his goals are now that he's had a change of heart. >> i think he's made it pretty clear what his goals are. he said that he wants hillary clinton to take him back on the plane with him. >> he's had a change of heart. we are having conversations with him. i'm not going to prejudge the conversations and i'm not going to speculate from this podium, again, in washington on how this -- on a possible outcome. >> well, as we said this is a high-stakes issue for china and the u.s. last night, china blacked out the signal and it was restored after it ended.
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you can see it go back to the program once our report on the story ended. as we mentioned we'll keep a picture from cnn china in the bottom of the screen. worth noticing this is world press freedom day. it just went to black as you saw. we have just now been censored in china. what did chen tell you today, stan? >> yeah, he's very resolute, anderson. there's one message here and that is he want toss get out of china. there's no debate about that. there's no doubt about that. there's no confusion about that. he has said that time and time again. but when we first spoke to him at 3:00 a.m. on thursday morning, through us he made an appeal direct to president obama. please, mr. president, get me and my family out of this country and to the united states. he has reiterated that time and time again. he's in fear for his life. when he met his wife, his wife
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told him how she had been tied to a chair and beaten for two days after guards found out he had fled from house detention. is he going to achieve it? that's the question here. he wants to meet with the secretary of state face to face. his appeal to president obama as of right now he's in the hand -- hands of the government that considers him an enemy of the state. >> so he's in the hospital still right now? >> he's in the hospital and surrounded by guards. first of all, his health is not good. over the past 18 months of being under house arrest, he says he's been beaten repeatedly. he has not had full medical treatment. friends talk about internal bleeding. he damaged his leg in the extraordinary get away so he needs medical treatment. he can't move around. there's a strong presence outside. yesterday, there was an extraordinary -- two extraordinary images. the first is of a supporter of
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chen who came to speak out in front of cameras. he was dragged away forcibly. that shows the guards don't care what the rest of the world see. the other extraordinary image, a very senior efficient from the u.s. embassy standing outside the hospital because he couldn't get in. >> you also spoke to the u.s. ambassador to china, gary locke. did he leave the door open to the u.s. further helping chen out? is the u.s. trying to negotiate on his behalf? >> absolutely. he maintains throughout that chen had said to him explicitly time and time again i want to stay in china. i want to fight for freedom in this country. and i want to leave the embassy and be reunited with my family. you saw the images, he was smiling and hugging officials when they took him to the hospital. everything changed after he went to the hospital. then he said, no. i don't trust the chinese government. threats have been made. we need to get out of here. i put that to ambassador locke. he said they're going to continue to talk, to leave the door open, to try to negotiate
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something albeit when they can get to see him face to face. but here's the problem. to get asylum he needs to be on the u.s. ground. it could be the embassy, ironically the one he walked away from 24 hours ago. >> be careful, stan. it's already friday in china. you can see we're still blacked out. still being censored. the screens went to stan as soon as he went to his live report. and clinton arrives in bangladesh on saturday. i spoke earlier about this. david, you said the honor of the united states is at stake with the handling of mr. chen. how so? >> well, the united states has long been one of the foremost advocates for human rights in the world. we stood up against the soviet union and with china. we tried to do that with tiananmen square and the united states relationships are taking place with china in a broad array of issues. this is so simple and straightforward.
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it's the life of a hero who is blind. i think most americans will say when he comes into the u.s. embassy his protection is a matter of national honor for us. >> nick, you believe if he disappears again so to speak the obama administration will be humiliated? >> absolutely. yeah. i mean, obama administration had him under their protection. and he left the extracting promises from the chinese foreign ministry which is a more dovish element of the chinese government. now he's in the hands of the security forces. >> i mean, do you think the u.s. is being up front when they say chen changed his mind? >> as far as i can tell that's what happened. gary cohen a lawyer who was brought in by chen guangcheng confirms that account and he seemed to confirm that today. he thanked the embassy for the support. i think that he did indeed leave voluntarily. i think that he got shaken up when he talked to his wife and
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his lawyer. >> david, i mean, a lot of analysts say u.s. and china on the collision course for conflict. what's the potential fallout here? >> the fallout can be very significant. i think we all remember in tiananmen square that young man stood up to the tank. the symbolic value was enormous. it was enormous for the american people and tiananmen square, this is not tiananmen square but it could damage relations. i think it's a question -- i think nick christophe is right. we'll be hue milluated if we lose this guy. and kurt campbell, i have known him a long time he's a very tough, very competent person. i would trust him to handle something like this. i do think somehow, signals got mixed up because chen also had assurances he says that americans would be in the hospital. he would have americans there with him. and right now, there are no americans with him by all our reports. >> right. he said suddenly he looked
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around and there weren't any left. nick, he said he'd like to leave on secretary clinton's plane with his family. how is that possible? >> i don't think that's any possible the chinese will let him leave on secretary clinton's plane because that would be a loss of face of the them. i think they'll allow him to leave as a student, study at the new york university. he's a huge headache and their experience has been when you get dissidents out of the country, then that tends to move them out of the public eye a little bit. they'll keep his mother there as leverage. i think that's a deal that could be worked out. >> david, obviously, mitt romney weighed in on this story. i want to play some of that for our viewers. >> the reports are and if they're accurate that our administration willingly or unwittingly communicated to chen an implicit threat to his family. and also, probably sped up or may have sped up the process of his decision to leave the embassy.
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if these reports are true, this is a dark day for freedom. and it's day of shame for the obama administration. >> do you think this is something that resonates with voters or will resonate? >> absolutely. this can come out two ways. if he stays in china, under the custody of the chinese and his future is in very much in doubt, i think it's going to be -- it will be a political blow for the obama administration. if he comes out, they will get a lot of credit for that. it's so interesting how just two days ago as you know, the president had -- what was a triumph by going to afghanistan and on the anniversary, and now it's so flipped. so that suddenly he's on the knife edge of a very difficult problem that could hurt him politically. it's not easy being president. it goes with the job, but i think he has to find an answer to this. i think the very important for the president to find a way to have mr. chen and his family come out safely. >> i appreciate it. thanks. >> thank you. we mentioned it's world press day and we asked the
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students to submit videos why freedom is important. you can watch it tonight. tonight, the syrian's regime campaign, it's spread the university. at least seven were reportedly killed. details ahead. [ female announcer ] the road is not exactly a place of intelligence. highway maintenance is underfunded, costing drivers $67 billion a year, and countless tires. which drivers never actually check because they're busy, checking email. this is why we engineered a car that makes 2,000 decisions every second. the new audi a6 is here. the road is now an intelligent place. ♪
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welcome back. continuing coverage, we've been told we have just been put back on the air in china since we have moved on from the report about the chinese activist, chen. the grand jury makes a decision in the case of a police who shot and killed a retired veteran. audio and videotapes of the
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incident have just been released. we will play them for you. you can decide for yourself and decide what happened. but first, here's isha. >> security forces in syria stormed a university early this morning. opponents say it's an attempt to clamp down on students. protests have been popped up on university campuses across syria. today a florida court denied a new trial for marissa alexander. she faces 20 years in prison for conviction of assault with a deadly weapon. she claims self-defense on the florida stand your ground law when her abusive husband came after her. the court did not agree. more than 100 football players are suing the nfl claiming the league down played the dangers of concussions and brain injuries. the nfl claims the allegations have no merit. and anderson, look at this.
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lucky for this boy the lion was behind protective glass given what the child was wearing, as you can see clearly. maybe the lion at the zoo in oregon mistook him for a baby zebra. i'm not sure. look at that. >> wow, that's amazing. >> thank goodness for glass. >> thank goodness for glass. tonight a grand jury's decision not to indict the police officer who shot and killed an elderly marine. you can decide for yourself what you think if the police acted appropriately when they went to the man's door. this man is about to be the millionth customer.
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the death of a new york area retired marine. kenneth chamberlain, sr. he was shot and killed by police. a jury decided to not indict the officer who killed him. tonight, you'll hear and see what they saw as the incident unfolded, unraveled. we have videotape recorded by police taser guns and mr. chamberlain's medical alert pendant. this happened last november. mr. chamberlain signalled the alert system that called police.
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when officers arrived, he made it clear he didn't want them coming in. >> i'm okay. >> i need to see that you're okay and we'll go. >> you leave. >> can't leave. you called. >> i'm okay. >> all right. i need to see you. >> i'm okay. >> he said that again over and over. several more minutes of tape that he wants police to go away. his son said he feared for his life. when he finally opened the door a crack, police officers say he was holding a knife. they burst in, tasered the 68-year-old man, fired nonlethal bean bags at him and then officer coe really shot and killed him. we'll talk to kenneth chamberlain, jr., his son shortly. but first, soledad with more. >> well, the white plains district attorney said this was tragic from all sides and i think that's fair to say.
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i have seen mr. chamberlain's medical records. ken chamberlain is a man who couldn't walk up a flight of stairs without having respiratory issues, that's why he wore that pendant around his neck in case he needed medical attention. it went off on november 19, an ambulance was dispatched. a security camera captured the police arriving there and kenneth chamberlain is called by the medical alert company who talks to him over a speakerphone. you can hear him telling them he's okay, he wants the police to go away. he said, they're going to kill me or beat me up. another point, you hear the medical alert dispatcher calling the police saying he doesn't need them anymore and he tells mr. chamberlain they won't go away unless he talks to them. i want to show you video that's mounted on the taser gun. take a look. >> okay. what are you doing. >> open up. >> leave, leave!
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>> open the door just so i can check you out. >> i'm okay. i'm fine. >> yeah, but -- >> i am fine. >> i'm fine. >> so how long does this go on for? >> it goes on for about 20 minutes. you can hear he's getting -- mr. chamberlain is getting agitated. the police are not that agitated, but you hear him refusing very firmly, go away. you can hear kenneth chamberlain talking to the medic alert people at the same time. you can see he has a metal object that he brandishes through the doorway. but now it's partly open. police say that was a butcher knife. let's take a look. >> they're getting ready to come in. >> shoot me. go on.
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shoot me. shoot me. go on. [ bleep] shoot me. shoot me. >> did the police i mean have reason to believe he was dangerous? >> i think that question is best answered by going forward to the end of the tape. at the end of the tape they fired the taser gun. you can see mr. chamberlain standing there. this is the portion of the tape that i think's going to cause a lot of discussion. we're going to take a look at the end of the tape one more time and in slow motion, you can see he's standing there. he's half dressed. remember it's 5:00 in the morning. you can see that only one arm is down by his side. he's yelling shoot me in this portion of the video. he's already been tasered. he's not coming at them, but also he's not backing down. he's getting more and more agitated. the police are actually while they're calm, they have now shot the bean bags at him. tasering him. the taser rolls the videotape and eventually the videotape ends. the taser is shut off and that is when officer carelli shoots him twice.
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>> you'll have more on this tomorrow morning. we have mr. chamberlain who is joining us by phone. kenneth, you feel that the justice was not done today. why? >> well, viewing the audio and the video, it's very clear that there was misconduct at minimal. even if they don't want to say something was criminally done, there's some sort of misconduct. >> misconduct how? >> and -- just using expletives which you guys haven't played on there. using the "n" word. those things tell you that was inappropriate of the police officers from the very beginning, and then they knocked down the door and they just immediately fired a taser at my father. why?
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he told you he was okay and the police go away. the door was cracked. you saw he was okay. so there was no reason for you to enter his home. >> you say your father was not a threat to the police, but instead feared for his life. >> yes. that's correct. at that time in the morning, someone banging on your door, demanding entry into your home, of course he feared for his life. he was 68 years old. he suffered from a heart condition. and why would the police fire a taser at someone that has a heart condition? >> we should point out the police and the d.a. have confirmed that the "n" word was used. we got the tape so late and it's long and we haven't had a chance to isolate that portion of it. but there's confirmation that was used. what do you make of the grand jury's decision? >> i think it's easier to indict a vigilante in florida than it is to indict a cop in new york. this is a tragedy from start to finish. mr. chamberlain was in his home at 5:00 a.m., committing no
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crime, threatening no one. the clip that you're showing us, that clip comes at the end of almost an hour and a half of confrontation. they're yelling at him, taunting him, mocking him. this is an individual they believed he might have been emotionally disturbed. well, they did absolutely nothing to calm him down and everything to agitate him. at no point in this entire confrontation does mr. chamberlain ever leave his apartment. i have looked at the police records and the final incident shows that two police officers at least entered mr. chamberlain's apartment after this video went off. so he presented a threat to no one in his apartment. it's just like trayvon martin where zimmerman is following him around and putting the young man in fear of his life. mr. chamberlain was in fear for his life and legitimately so. >> mr. chamberlain, our
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condolences on the loss. let's dig deeper into obligations that the police had to go into the apartment. joining us now is paul callan, he has extensive experience presenting cases to grand juries. if a life alert has been signalled are the police under some obligation to make sure he's okay? >> most prosecutors would you tell you this is a gray area if the police can force their way into the home. we hear about the cassel dock trip, you need a warrant to enter somebody's home. the police will say they were confronted with a mentally disturbed person who they subsequently find out is armed with a knife, and that they had an obligation to enter to make sure he wasn't going to hurt himself. i'm sure that was the claim they probably made in front of the grand jury. >> could there also had been a case had they left, taken his word that he was okay, and it turns out he had a heart attack
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or something, they would have been liable if or held responsible by his family saying look, the police were at his door, they didn't bother to check on him, they left? >> i have to doubt that's something they'd worry about. i don't know about his medical background, but and he hurt himself, he stabbed himself, they certainly would be subject to great criticism. the police were in a terrible position in trying to decide what to do. however, the one thing that troubles me looking at it is you did have mr. chamberlain's own family members apparently standing outside the door. so it's not like they were not accompanied by family members who were in a position to say to them, don't worry about it, back off. >> also the "n" word, according to mr. chamberlain's family attorney, the police were taunting him or mocking him, that doesn't seem to be a right way to deal with a disturbed person. >> no, and it made the situation much worse and it seems to me it would put the police in a
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position where that they'd be criticized for handling this wrongly. this goes on over an extensive period of time, there are different snapshots we have to look at. one is did they have the right to enter at all? maybe they didn't. but once they're inside, you have an entirely new situation now. if he attacked them with a knife after being hit with a taser and with other benign objects then maybe they had the right to act in self-defense. we don't know because we don't know what the testimony before the grand jury was. that's all secret in new york. >> paul callan, appreciate you being on. coming up, pages of letters written by osama bin laden and it shows some plans for attack and habits he had in his day to day life. [ man ] hmm. a lot can happen in two hundred thousand miles...
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