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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  May 18, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am EDT

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we're going to play that for you coming up in just a couple minutes. so let's go "outfront." -- captions by vitac -- i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, showdown ant camp david. the world's heavyweights are in the ring. the g-8 leaders arriving today. president obama having them all as guests at camp david. a fancy dinner, play a bunch of games and hang out, and literally, that's what it's like. but it's also going to be a little bit like, like a boxing fight. like the fight where tyson took off the ear of evander holyfield. they're going to take it all off and fight. [ bell rings ] >> reporter: francois hollande the challenger, wants to borrow a boat load of money and say sayonara to the money cuts. and telling angela merkel her aus tear ways are over.
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the ref, the guy with the smile hoping not to get hit with body blows or parts is barack obama. a big decision to make. will he side with more cuts or will he risk his presidency saying he wants to bore mow more money now to save the economy? all smiling aside, this choice may determine if america remains the world's biggest and best. one person fighting since day one for spending, paul krugman. he was critical of the president's stimulus plan. at the time he said it was too small. the nobel prize winning economist says the only way to win the heavyweight championship is to spend a lot more. he joins me now. a pleasure to see you, sir. how much more do we need to spend? >> well, at the moment i'm calling for about $300 billion a year. for basically until the economy is back on its feet. so it's a -- it's a significant amount of money. i mean, the main point is we've been doing the reverse, instead of spending more. the stimulus, never much of a deal, long since gone. happening now, anti-stimulus.
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we've been cutting back at the state and local level. that's been a major drag on the economy. in europe they've had extreme austerity. it's not working. we're still stuck in a depression, as i say in the title of my book. >> yes. let's get in the ring, then. a lot of people watching who agree and a lot who want to wring your neck saying we have a debt problem. right? the fiscal cliff. the number, 15.7 trillion in debt for this country. the congressional budget office interest payments alone exceed medicaid spending. by 2018, we spend $1.2 trillion more a year now than we bring in. how much debt is too much? you're going to borrow more. right? >> two things to say. one is all of those numbers are enormous because america's enormous. we're a $15 trillion a year economy. debt, i don't like the level of
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debt. i was actually a big opponent of those too big, unfunded bush tax cuts and those too big unfunded bush wars, and if we hadn't done those things we'd have come into this with a lot less debt and be a little easier about doing what needs to be done now. the fact of the matter is advanced countries with their own kucurrencies able to borrown their own currencies can carry debt for a long time. this is not an urgent crisis. i'll become a fiscal hawk, but not now. the other thing to say, right now trying to bring that budget deficit down doesn't even work. doesn't work in purely fiscal terms. it shrinks the economy, damages our long-run growth, because when workers have been unemployed for a long period of time, they eventually drop out of the labor force and don't come back. students never get their careers started out of college and those are our future taxpayers you're undermining. so this is not the time. >> i'm interested in, on the bush tax cuts and the wars, certainly they are the two
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biggest components of the deficit, but they're done. right? it's in the rearview mirror. ken rogoff, you know him well, has written extensively of countries getting out of debt crises, said once your debt is 90% of the economy, growth is choked off. we're at 101% and growing every day. >> i disagree very strongly with his conclusion. i think he's got the causation backwards. if you look at it, most of the cases that he points to, which are high debt and low growth, it's actually the low growth that led to the high debt. japan is deeply in debt and it's a slow growing economy. what happened first in japan was their growth collapse bawd they didn't do an adequate job of stimulating their economy after the big bubble ended in the early 1990s and the debt followed from that. it's the collapse of their economy and their economic growth that led to the debt problem. >> one final thing i wanted to ask in terms of how to pay for it. you're talking borrowing now, once we get growth, paying it off. the "new york times" magazine,
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great analysis a few months ago, alan davidson wrote it, had him on the show. he was talking about a whole issue of raising taxes, saying you could tax millionaires at 100%, didn't have anything left in the next year and wouldn't get as much money as if you raised taxes by just 8% on people who make between $150,000 and $200,000 a year. bill clinton said something i wanted to play it and get your reaction. >> you could tax me at 100% and you wouldn't balance the budget. we are all going to have to contribute to this, and if middle-class people's wages were going up again and we had some growth in the economy, i don't think they would object to going back to the tax rates that were obtained when i was president. >> professor, do you think we need to get rid of all the bush tax cuts? have them go up on everybody? i know you wouldn't say do that now, but that that's where we need to go? >> or something like that. in the end they were based on false premise.
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which was, we had plenty of money. we didn't. we need higher taxes on the rich because they are -- it's not going to solve the problem but it could make a major contribution. in the end, middle-class people will probably have to pay somewhat more. i probably wouldn't do it just by rolling back the bush tax cuts. i'd do it in other ways but better than nothing. in the end we have a long-run budget problem. not as big as the current deficit, which is largely because the economy is in the tank, but we have a long-run budget problem which will have to be solved through a combination of higher revenue, budget cost controls in medicare. a bunch of things we need to do. no one, single bullet there, but we could end this depression right now without having to solve that longer run problem. >> all right. thank you very much, professor. appreciate it. everyone let us know what you think. did he make the case? of course, tweet me. "outfront" next, the obama campaign takes a page from newt gingrich. we'll tell you why. sentenced for a dui crash which killed a young man.
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but tonight a florida millionaire is not behind bars. instead he is home in his mansion. and an update on amy copeland. you met the father of the college student fighting a flesh-eating bacteria. [ male announcer ] this is the at&t network. a living, breathing intelligence helping business, do more business. in here, opportunities are created and protected. gonna need more wool! demand is instantly recognized and securely acted on across the company. around the world. turning a new trend, into a global phenomenon. it's the at&t network -- securing a world of new opportunities. ♪ would you mind if to be i go ahead of you?omer. instead we had someone go ahead of him and win fifty thousand dollars. congratulations you are our one millionth customer.
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now for today's number. it has to do with -- these two guys. joe rickets and curt schilling. ricketts is the owner of the chicago cubs and curt schillings or, star pitcher retired for the boston red sox. it's not about baseball. no. it's about money. actually, no. it's about your money. john avlon is "outfront" now. you say these are examples of political hypocrisy. explain. these two baseball titans are also proud, fiscal republican conservatives. >> get the government out of my life? >> get the government out of my life, unless it's spending that will cut the bottom line. for an awkward reason his super park got an ugly pitch. rejected when it came to light. check the name of his super pac. ending spending action fund. all dedicated to reining in spending.
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then our friend curt schilling, retired running a video game company called 38 studios. they recently relocated from massachusetts to rhode island in exchange for some republican incentives. this past weekend they bounced a $1.1 million check. they may be having solvency problems. >> wow. and owing state taxes, $35 million? >> 1.1 the bounced check. that brings us -- >> brings us to tonight's number. $225 million. what the heck is that? who screwed me on that? >> the grand total. break it down. $150 million is the price tag on the amount that the ricketts family are asking chicago and illinois taxpayers to pitch in for renovation of wrigley field. $75 million is the amount curt schilling's company has on the hook for the taxpayers of rhode island. the guaranteed loan they got to
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relocate to the state. but if they're bouncing a $1.1 million check, that's $75 million guarantee that doesn't look too good. two states deep under water with budget deficits. >> and two people shown to be a little hypocritical tonight. by avlon. and when enemies become your friends. newt gingrich is at a fundraiser for his former rival, mitt romney. everybody says, i hate your guts, aguts when you become the nominee, come behind you and campaign for you. in this case, gingrich was rather obsessive and viral criticism about bain capital. >> he's been going around saying his 25 years in business are a major reason why he should be president. fine. let's look at his 25 years in business. what was his approach. it is a question of judgment, of values and of character. we know of one case for sure where they put in 30 million, they took out 180 million, six times as much, and the company
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went broke. >> so this week the obama campaign is copying newt gingrich hitting hard at romney and bain. and hogan, good to have you -- nice tie, hogan. >> thank you very much. >> i like that tie. that takes courage and looks good on you. let me start with you, james. newt's backtracking and his bain attack saying they won't work, that dog don't hunt, don't try it, barack. give it up. maybe barack should give it up? >> because newt gingrich told him to give it up? i don't think it qualifies as good political advice. and romney is the one that put it at issue claiming he created all the jobs. he just claimed he just made a lot of money but quite different. if you're going to talk about the jobs you created, why complain to somebody that's going to talk about the jobs you destroyed, too? that's part of the deal. and newt gingrich made his point
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and i think obama will make the same one. >> will newt's support of romney help him? is it going to ring hallow? we played one attack. there are many. i remember being in south carolina. a nasty couple of days between those two. >> well, voters pretty much have short memories as it relates to things like this. don't forget, tim pawlenty gave one of the best attacks on mitt romney in the primary season and a couple days after he got out of the race, he's all over the country talking about how great mitt romney will be as president. that's just part of politics. you and i both know barack obama and hillary clinton had one of the most difficult, harsh campaigns in a long time and they kissed and made up since then. that's the way it works in politics, and we unite behind the republican ticket, because we know we think he's better than the president. so that's the bottom line and that's where it will continue to go throughout the summer and on into the fall. >> all right, hogan. so you've given a statesmanly jefferson-like response. let me play what you said about mitt romney in march. >> he wants us out so he can
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stop talking conservatism and go back to showing who he was as governor, being pro-abortion and pro-choice and being against the nra. things he's uncomfortable talking about, as you've seen on the campaign trail. he stumbling through those parts of his speech but want to go back to talking the moderate conversation because that's who he is at his core. >> but you like him? >> it's not about liking him, it it's about trying to defeat the president. mitt romney has run for president two times now. got to know him pretty well the first time around and this is what we do. we fight and scrap and claw and try to become the nominee. once he's chosen with unite and trite to push forward. disagreements in the primary. that makes the party stronger, the primary process stronger but unite behind the nominee because we know our nominee is better than the president. and on mitt romney's worst day he's still ten times better than barack obama. >> james carville, people do
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forget, but if they forget what every says, then don't they look at the ads running and ignore them, too, all of these negative ads? why even worry about those? >> well, a lot of people do, but look, this thing will be a close race. going to be one on the margins and some of these attacks when they're repeated can have some effect and their campaign will have some effect. it's very close. it's interesting to see how it's going to wash out. >> james, last week you said that democrats who are counting on the president winning needed a wake-up call. it wasn't going to be that close. just in the past few days you've been vindicated. mitt romney is raising money's in key areas, swing states, been looking like he is leading the president, you know, fairly solidly. so did the democrats get it now? get the challenge that they're up against? >> well, i think people do. my point is that incumbents all over the world, this is not a very good time to be an incumbent. look, in the end, it's going to
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be a close election. the president will prevail. i don't think romney's that good of a candidate. he's shown it time and time again, but we can't take anything for granted. what i was hearing a couple, three weeks ago, people took it for granted the president would be re-elected. nothing i've seen they can take for granted at all. >> how is mitt romney supposed to fight back against the bain ads? as part of what he did in private equity, people did lose jobs and in some places gained them, some places lost. there's a truth there and can be portrayed to be a very ugly one. >> oh, it can be. no doubt about that. look, for every sad story where bain failed, there are ten stories where bain succeeded, and right now the american people pretty much understand by all polling, it indicates that they trust mitt romney more on the economy than barack obama. the promises the president made, he can't run against george bush now, he's got to run against his own record. he promised to cut the debt in half. highest in the country. grew it more rapidly than any president in history and he's
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got to settle with that. the american people at this time are just starting to pay attention and just starting to see who mitt romney is, and that's why they put out that new ad recently, trying to frame him that way to make changes, can be different than the president, and these things will go on for quite some time. that's just the way it works from now on. >> james carville, hogan, have a wonderful weekend, both of you. still "outfront," a millionaire just sentenced to prison for dui manslaughter. he is at home tonight in his mansion. will he ever return to a prison cell? and what did george zimmerman see when he killed trayvon martin? we'll play his statement to you to police.
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our third story "outfront" -- john goodman appealing a manslaughter conviction. he's home tonight on $75 million
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bond. his home sits on the grounds of the polo club he founded near palm beach. 11,000 square feet. luxurious. goodman will be under house arrest, he'll be wearing an ankle bracelet and he will be watched by two sheriff's deputies 24/7, can go to his office, entertain visitors including his girlfriend he adopted to avoid paying in a civil suit. he was charged with driving drunk, killing a college student and leaving the scene. is this normal? >> the such says he'd not allowed to wear a tuxedo. in the judge's discourse in court when he set the bail. he's in florida, this is not unusual. you can get bail post-conviction if it's not a capital crime and can appeal the case. the defense attorney says one of
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the jurors did a test. we talked about it once. >> what it was like to be drunk. >> a good faith basis. i will say this. in every state i know of in the united states, you don't get released when sentenced to 16 years in prison after the conviction, but this is florida. >> and i understand this time, however long the appeal goes, this time will count towards his prison time if he ever has to go to prison. but it could add up to $100,000 to $1 million a year to pay for the security. so if there's ever a civil trial, he has to pay money, and that's money he doesn't have. >> we could look at it that way. on the other hand, confined to your mansion with a swimming pool, not too bad. most people are sitting in a jail cell while their appeal is pending for many, many years. >> right, but what i'm getting at is he won't have much money left for a civil case. correct? theoretically, would that affect
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what they choose to do? >> the interesting thing about the civil case. court papers were filed indicating he's already settled the civil case for $41 million, and he says he's broke, and that his brother and sister put up the money, the $7 million for the bail, because he is broke. there are reports that insurance companies may have funded the settlement. i don't really know what the truth is here and don't think he's going to be losing money. remember -- well, this is the guy who adopted his girlfriend. >> right. she's going to inherit millions of dollars, possibly. >> maybe he gets the money back. >> wow. a bizarre story. also tragic in a lot of ways. thanks to paul cowen. and facebook's ipo. remember how excited we were? i just think it's fun looking forward to the anticipation for a big event that everyone's looking at. then it just, you know, did a belly flop. we're going to talk about whether it was a failure. and a major update on amy copeland, the young woman battles flesh-eating bacteria.
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welcome back to the second half of "outfront." we start the second half with the stories we care about. we focus on our reporting from the front lines. amy copeland, a georgia graduate
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fighting a flesh-eating bacteria has now had both hands and remaining foot amputated. her leg and soft tissue from her torso were removed in earlier surgeries. her father andy came on the program earlier in the week and just posted in a facebook post today that when amy learned about the surgery, she said, let's do this. her ordeal started less than three weeks ago when a homemade zip line snapped causing her to fall. she got a gash in her leg. she got stitches. a few days later, it still seemed infected. she went back to the hospital and realized she had the bacteria that causes necrotiz g ing fascitis. and china's radar evading fighter jet could be operational in only six years. a big speedup. according to an acting deputy secretary, china could have fighters and pilots to fly them by 2018. some were obsessed by the j20, radar evading capability
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kpabl to -- comparable to f-22s and f-35s. we're told the drone that went down, the most radar effective technology also could be in china's hands. speaking of the international atomic agency head, he'll meet with the head of iran's national security council and other senior representatives of the government. the director general will meet with the head of iran's security council government. it's a really important visit, because it comes just a couple of days before iran will be discussing its nuclear program with leaders from the united states, france, russia, china, britain and germany. a crucial group of countries. we'll see if there's a breakthrough before the sanctions take effect this month. a plan to move the "contra concordia." the ship that turned on its side after striking rocks off the coast of an island.
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they hope to move it in one piece, raising it from the seafloor. the operation will start in the next couple of days but it will take a full year to actually complete it. the plan will be to stabilize the ship. you can see right there the profile how it would look if it weren't on its side. they've got to stabilize it and ooernt -- eventually pull it upright and slide a platform under it. then attach caissons to both sides, empty it, fill it with air forcing the ship up to the top. the ship will be towed to an italian port where it will be dismantled and disposed of. less than 288 days since the united states lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? it was a rough week. stocks closed at 259. no good news there. fourth story -- well, a stock that picked a bad week to go public. facebook. face plant. watching the debut. all excited about it. it's a company americans are justifiably incredibly proud of. came from this country.
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when the stock started trading it opened at $42.05 a share. now, that's actually pretty good. you may remember last night it was priced at $38. it got that little $4.05 pop at the open. everyone thought that would be the beginning. problem is, it didn't get much higher. the end of the day shares closed at $38.08. 8 cents above where it was priced. you heard people on the show and if you follow the story you know the vast majority of people, experts on this, thought the stock would climb much higher. some said it could open as high as $50 a share and would close at $60 or $70. it didn't move. what happened? wilsey asset agency joins you. i know some people might say, this is a great example of, hey, you priced the stock right, exactly right for demand, but usually you leave a little on the table so the little guy can feel like they made a little money. >> that's correct, erin.
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what actually happened here coming out $38 a share is good for the company offering at that price, but investors don't feel great about it because -- another problem, too, that 30-minute delay. 11:00 our time and didn't come out until a half hour later. when it came out at $38.42, started falling down. people said, it's not supposed to do that and you lost the momentum on the stock. >> another thing that a lot of people may not realize is that, i mean, theoretically and most people say would have gone below that offering price, would have been the first of major ipos to ever do that on its first day, if it weren't for the underwriters, jpmorgan, morgan stanley coming in and buying, buying, to try to hold that price? >> and exactly correct. i was reading the same thing. they didn't want to fall below $38. they did that today. what about monday? tuesday? they won't be there forever. you can have a nice decline in the stock, maybe 10, maybe 20% more because the underwriters
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can't keep putting the orders in to keep the stock up. that's a problem. >> how did this happen, brent? >> i think what happened is that -- a lot of people knew. 70% of professionals said, don't buy the stock. maybe, just maybe, investors are starting to get, yes, we know facebook, we know the company. maybe it's not a good investment. one thing i try to do for people sput is put it in perspe saying, look at the same fundamentals, the same valuations, you'd put those, from facebook, on apple. trading at $3,300 a share. i wouldn't buy apple at that. maybe thought $38 a share was too expensive for facebook. >> what would you do now? say you're somebody who hasn't bought in yet. what do you do? if you're already in, it could go down further. you're in, you're in. what about somebody thinking about buying? >> i wouldn't buy the stock. i said before, i'm saying for six months don't buy facebook. it's a great thing for social
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media but it's not like a real business. they don't manufacture anything. problems on the advertising. there are problems with this company, again, i use facebook. i think you probably use facebook. we all use it but it doesn't mean the company can make enough money to make that stock price of $38 or even $35 a share worth it. you've got to look at, is that a good investment? not now. maybe in the future. right now stay away from the stock. too expensive. >> thanks so much. good to see you. it's been a while. good to have friends on. i want to clarify, the stock settled its close at $38.23 a share. all right, "outfront" next -- the audio of one witness describing the final moments of trayvon martin's life. everyone has been waiting to see did anyone, other than those two people, know what happened? well, it appears that someone did. what that witness saw, you're going to hear it next. we talk a lot about, well, we're going to show you something really strange that happened about a world leader. actually just happened in the past few minutes. it's actually the most bizarre
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thing i think i've ever seen from a world leader, and it's coming up. if you are one of the millions of men
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bank accounts for fear of default. just one day this week greeks pulled nearly $1 billion from accounts. so where is the money going? i asked. >> hi. turns out the greeks have been taking their money out of their bank accounts for quite some time now. because since 2009 when the crisis began they withdrawn 25% to 30% of their deposits during that period. as you were saying, the pace picked up in the last two weeks since it's obvious they've been unable to form a government after the last round of elections, and we discovered $890 million has been coming out of greek accounts just in the last week alone. the big question, where is that money going? some of it, ironically enough, is going to the country greece blames for some of its ills. germany. the greeks have been buying german bonds seen as a very safe haven, but also those greeks wanting to take their money out
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of the eurozone and are plowing it into british property, notably in the british capital of london. we've seen inquiries for prime real estate going up 39% in just the month of april alone. erin? >> thanks to nina. now to london. queen elizabeth ii marking 60 years at a jubilee for being on the throne. i asked max foster who the problem was. >> well, erin, the queen invited every monarch in the world, and it's a very exclusive club, but within it there are controversial figures. the king of bahrain, king of swaziland, for example, both have been accused by activists of human rights abuses. also, a glaring mission of the table, it felt, the queen of spain. she turned down her invitation on the advice of her government. spain and britain are in a dispute over the island of gibraltar. so there was some small
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demonstrations, but overall, the event went as planned. erin? last, the most annual watched sporting event in the world. not the super bowl. the champion leagues. we call it soccer. between chelsea and bayern munich tomorrow. i asked why is champions league the number one watched in the world? >> erin, quite simply, because when it comes to sports, we all like to see the best of the best play each other, and that's exactly what the champions league offers. fans of football or soccer, the most popular sport on the planet. only the nba can match it for global appeal. you know, you may well see kids wearing a kobe bryant laker shirt in some far-flung corner of the globe, but i guarantee you'll see one wearing a manchester united, real madrid or barcelona uniform. talking about the nba, what's the highlight of the season? all-star game.
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that's kind of what the champion league offers week in and week out. it may be a european competition, but it attracts star footballers from all over the world because it's the european club that has the most prestige and also because they pay the most money. no wonder, with tv and prize money in the champions league worth around $1 billion, erin. >> wow. let's check in with anderson cooper. it could be a huge difference between an eyewitness and what he saw of the two fighting. this comes out days after the photo of george zimmerman. this one shows wounds to the back of george zimmerman's head. the other one is a grainy video that shows a swollen nose of george zimmerman. that was taken by an officer on the scene. and on trayvon martin there was
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a trace of marijuana in his body. good to have all of you with us. i want to just begin by playing you a little bit of the audio that we have here. this is a statement that a witness who saw exactly what happened between trayvon martin and george zimmerman, a witness of what he said. let's play it. >> when i first walked out there, the black guy was on top. the only reason i can tell that was because the guy that was on the ground under him at that point wrestling was definitely a lighter color. >> bradley cohen, how significant is that statement? >> i think it's pretty significant. you have someone who actually saw what happened. what the argument is going to be is what happened prior to that. who struck who first, who attacked who first? but in terms of zimmerman's story, this certainly gives credibility to what he was
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saying, that trayvon was on top of him and that he was being assaulted while he was on top of him, but we don't know how that began. >> jasmine, what's your reaction when you hear that? i mean, is it as damning as it seems it could be? >> i mean, i don't think that evidence is really that significant. we've been saying from the very beginning and the fact still remains that officers told george zimmerman not to get out of his car, not to pursue trayvon. zimmerman made the decision to get out of his car. he followed trayvon with a loaded weapon and pursued the teenager throughout the apartment complex. i think it's very clear who the agressor in this incident is, and i think that the injuries are very consistent with the evidence. we have george zimmerman with some scratches and we have trayvon dead with the use of a gun. >> but we do also have, i mean, those pictures. george zimmerman, it was more than scratches. he had several areas in the back of his head where there is blood pouring off his head and a broken nose. >> he certainly did not have any life-threatening injuries. i think most notable, emt was
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called out. he told the emt to turn around. he did not go to the emergency room that night, and let's not forget na that nobody saw george zimmerman that night, so nobody medically inspected him until the following day. so any evidence that we have now -- >> go ahead, finish your point and then bradley, come in. >> the evidence that we have now still remains that zimmerman pursued and shot and killed trayvon martin. >> go ahead, bradley. then i want to get to stacy. >> sure, erin, just because the injuries are not life threatening did not mean that the individual did not feel his life was being threatened at the time he was being beaten. just because your injuries don't say, oh, my god, these injuries look like you could have died from them, if someone is, like he said, was smashing his head against the cement, you would feel that your life was in danger. >> let me, stacy, play something else we learned in the discovery, and this is something everybody has been waiting to hear. the first time we hear the voice of trayvon martin's girlfriend.
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everyone following this case may remember he was on the phone with her right as this whole altercation began. her identity still hasn't been revealed but here's her voice and here's what she said. >> so you definitely could tell another voice that was not trayvon. >> yeah. >> and you heard this other voice -- >> yeah. what are you doing around here? >> what are you doing around here? okay. >> i called trayvon, trayvon, what's going on, what's going on? >> this is you saying that? >> yeah. i called to him. he didn't answer. >> no answer from trayvon. >> yeah. i heard -- you can hear that trayvon -- somebody bumped trayvon. it's like a hhe hit the grass. >> stacy, what do you hear there? >> everything we're discussing tonight is extremely significant. we're waiting to hear if there is an eyewitness in this discovery that's disseminated. we're starting to see and feel actually what went on. without knowing exactly, and
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because none of these witnesses can tell you who started it. certainly we know who set the chain of events in motion, and that's very important, that zimmerman was the one who got out of the car and started the chain of events. certainly we know if the law states you are the agressor and all this, you can't stand behind a shield and say i'm standing my ground. putting that aside, none of us on this panel knows all the evidence. the prosecutor does and now the defense attorney is getting everything. the stand your ground here, it will be very important for the judge to make a decision by the preponderance of the evidence that it is more likely than not what zimmerman said happened happened. >> let's say these two pieces of evidence do end up being directionally what happened. the first person to step out of the car and cause the sprob geor problem is george zimmerman. does it then matter if he was on the bottom, does he have any grounds if he started it?
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>> absolutely. it's not that he was the starter. being the agressor means the physical agressor. following someone is not the physical agressor. calling someone a name is not the physical agressor. the first physical agressor is the individual who can't stand behind the law. we don't know who the first physical agressor is. because i walk out of my house and i get hit by a car, is it my fault that i walked out of my house to get hit by the car? no. the fact is the law is very specific in that it's a physicalality type law. it's not calling your mama a name that starts as an agressor. >> stacy, what if we never know who was the first physical agressor? how does this case go? what if we never know? >> certainly there is more evidence, and probably -- well, not probably, it's going to be left up to a judge to say i don't know who started this, i don't know who was the agressor in all this, i don't know, really, what happened. it's murky, and that judge, the standard is very low.
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it's by a preponderance of the evidence which means it's more likely than not. that judge has to make the decision whether or not he's immune from prosecution or whether or not this is a self-defense argument that has to go to a jury. so it's a murky situation. now by just getting these little bits and pieces of the evidence, we don't know the whole picture. >> jasmine, what about the marijuana question? last night we had on a forensic pathologist who was talking about the sample was taken from what he called so-called open blood, and the results, the amount shown in the autopsy didn't mean anything, that it could have meant he was spokie i ing right before or smoking hours before, you js couldn't tell. how much more difficult does this make your case? >> not at all. it has no legal relevant to the case at all. it's so inadmissible, it's not allowed in federal courts. i think it's physically aggressive to follow somebody with a loaded gun.
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we talk about fear and somebody fearing for their lives, certainly a 17-year-old child who is being approached and followed by a grown man with a loaded gun would certainly fear for his life. >> that sounds interesting, but the florida case law doesn't support that. the florida case law says very specifically what physical action is, and following someone is not a physical action. it is a physical aggression toward that individual. that's what counts. he didn't even know, allegedly, that zimmerman had a gun. zimmerman ever said he pulled the gun before the whole altercation occurred, and that's the only person we can hear at this point. if there's other witnesses that come forward or other statements that are made, that's to be seen. >> that's the thing, right now we're talk ng hypotheticals. we have a couple pieces of evidence, and certainly the prosecutor before they filed the indictment, the information, had a slew of witness statements such as an audio, photographs and forensics. that's what we have to wait and see. to sit here and say we don't know if he's the agressor or
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this one witness came out after the fact. this is all for the mini hearing that's going to take place for the stand your ground. >> thank you very much to all three of you. we appreciate it. when we come back, like i said, the most bizarre thing i've ever seen of a world leader. a sitting leader of one of the biggest countries on this planet naked in a piece of art. [ shivering ] sorry. sore knee. blast of cold feels nice.
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sometimes you just luck. it falls in your lap. so the president, president obama, is at this moment greeting all of the g-8 leaders who are coming to camp david. it's the event when they get together for frank and revealing discussion. they'll be talking about some serious things: austerity, spending. this is a live picture of camp david. the president is coming out skpeez going to greet the world leaders. there's one of them i'm curious to see how he's responding, because one of the people he's about to greet -- i hope the camera pans, maybe i'll be that lucky -- this person was caught revealing a little bit more than he wanted to today. well, see, that is a picture,
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it's a painting, actually, that was unveiled at the kingston public library in canada today. it shows steven harper wearing nothing but a smile. a woman is offering what looks to be a tim or ttocup on a silver platter. it's priced at $5,000. harper's office is taking it in stride. here's a tweet from anderson america's favorite, dr. oz. >> the amount of sex we have is dramatically important because it is revving your engine with body. >> surprising prescription for good health. >> i have to admit i passed gas, probably passed gas when sitting here. >> absolutely not. the queen and i never do that.

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