tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN August 7, 2012 8:00pm-9:00pm EDT
out. the army found there were threads of a subculture of hate in its ranks. and they've had to, you know, address that over the years. >> did that sub culture involve wade michael page? and is this where his racist views began? do we know at this point? >> there's been a lot of ink written about this just over the last few days trying to put these dots together. it was about the same time frame that wade michael page was at ft. bragg. but we actually tracked down the original prosecutor of that crime, of the case today. he told us at the time they searched high and low for accomplices. even a bona fide hate group at the base. they found neither. he never came across page. even going back mentally in his notes today, he couldn't come up with that name. organizations that monitor hate groups do say the military can attract people who have hate-filled, you know, feelings but there's no clear indication wade michael page had anything to do with any of these
neo-nazis that were at fort bragg at that time. >> he was kicked out of the army though? >> he was kicked out but not for hate. in 1998 he was kicked out of ft. bragg. he was kicked out because he was drunk. we know he tried to make it in the hate music scene. kept picking up odd jobs after getting fired. he worked in the parts department of this north carolina motorcycle shop. this is near ft. bragg, by the way. 2000, 2003, 2004, he worked at that shop. but his boss fired him. and i want you to listen why. he told us this guy just had no respect for women. >> the thing i remembered mostly about him was the way he dressed. he dressed, in my opinion, just like the neo-nazi-type person would dress. and he was very quiet. kept to himself.
very efficient worker. he changed a little bit. he could not interact with females. and he had a problem with female authority. and he had such a problem that i started writing him up. then eventual put him on probation. and then we eventually terminated him because he just refused to take any orders from any female. >> and his supervisor was a female. john tew says when page left, anderson, he actually left behind an application to join the ku klux klan. pan panel came back for it too. we also know two years ago he was fired from a trucking company after he was cited for driving while impaired. anderson. >> wow. okay. drew, appreciate that update. joining us now is t.j. lydon and pete simi, criminologist pete simi is the author of "american
swastika, inside the white power movement's hidden spaces of hate." he actually first met that man in 2001 while doing a study on white power groups in southern california. spent a lot of time with him. we should point out t.j. lydon is a former white power skin head who once recruited inside the marine corps. he's the co-author of "skin head confessi confessions, from hate to hope." you met and you spent a lot of time with this guy, wade page, over the course of two years, from 2001 to 2003. what did you make of him back then? do you know how he got involved in this movement and what role, if any, the military played in it? >> he told me during the course of our time together was that he really started to identify with the neo n-naziism during his ti in the military. specifically, he said to me at one point, if you join the military and you're not a rac t racist, you certainly will be by
the time you leave. he felt like he learned when he was in the military that the deck was stacked against whites. and he came to feel there was preferential treatment for african-americans in the military and whites were always on the short end of the stick. and the more he got into the nazi ideology, the more he came to see all of society in that way. and this feeling that, you know, whites were just constantly on the short end of things and that everything was set up against whites to be successful. and but he did indicate to me pretty clearly that, you know, he knew about neo-nazis and racist skin heads prior to joining the military, but that he really started getting into it during his time in the military. >> i mean, it's strange because the military has very strict rules about discrimination and how people should be treated. was your sense that that was just an excuse on his part for being a loser, for not making it the way he had hoped?
>> well, yeah. certainly, you know, people are very creative and find lots of different ways to try and explain their personal short comings and personal failures. and certainly this -- you know, when we scapegoat other groups for these things, you know, that's a common thing that folks in this movement do as well as in other extremist movements as well. >> t.j., you were involved with the white power movement you say while you were actually in the marines. explain that connection. i mean, again, i thought the military has very strict rules on how you have to treat other people. what did you see? >> well, when i was in the marine corps, i joined the marine corps basically to get away from going to jail and getting in trouble. but while i was in the marine corps, i used to hang a swastika flag on my wall locker. and everybody in my unit all the way up to my commander knew it. the only time they ever asked me to take it down is when the commanding general came down just so they wouldn't get in
trouble. afterwards, i would put it right back up and they were perfectly fine twith it. con cra contrast that with my brother's unit. anything that was racist or anything that seemed to be racist, he made them send it home. it depends on the commanding officers and who's in charge of that base. >> what do you think is the appeal, t.j., of the military for people who may have these beliefs? i mean, is it to get some kind of training, to have some sort of a racial holy war or whatever they call? >> it's for the rho, the racial holy war. every major military installation. you will have at least two or three active neo-nazi organizations actively trying to recruit on-duty personnel. along with myself, hunter glas, scott barfield and a few others, we've been trying to get the military to wake up to this for at least the last ten years. the military's very slow on the
ball right foul as far now as fg us to come in to train the higher ups. i hope they would to get a better sense of what they're dealing with. >> pete, you say, from the time you spent with this guy, that you saw he had serious problems with alcohol. >> yes. excessive drinking throughout the time i knew him to the point of he had a hard time, you know, making it to work when he was working and passing out on a regular basis. at one point, he passed out at an airport on the way to a music show and wasn't able to get on the flight because he was so drunk. and this actually towards the end of his time in southern california actually became somewhat of a problem with him and some of his peers in the movement. because it was, you know, preventing him from holding down a job and being able to pay his share of the rent and he was starting to sponge money off of people and so forth. >> pete, i mean, was he a smart
guy? was he able to actually kind of discuss his viewpoints? and argue his viewpoints? because i spent sometime with some folks in the white power music scene as a reporter back in the late '90s and one or two of them would be able to argue and discuss their positions. the others just seemed kind of like boneheads. >> he'd be one of the one or two. in contrast to some folks who really -- can't really, you know, structure an argument very well or don't have much of anything to say as far as trying to present evidence, you know, whether it's accurate or inaccurate's another issue but, you know, page was able to do that. he was never hesitant about having me around, knowing i was doing research. he actually seemed to enjoy it and appreciate it. i think at times he actually thought he might be able to
convert me. >> t.j., the head of the southern poverty law center says page was associated with the hammer skins which he described as the, quote, scariest, most violent skinhead group out there. you were a member of this group. what is it? >> well, what is it? the hammer skins are the elite group. everybody wants to be a hammer skin. i mean, to get the two crossed hammers is a -- sadly to say this, it's a badge of honor inside the white supremacy movement. you have to earn that. you don't get it by just, you know, going around passing out leaflets. you have to go out and commit acts of violence. you have to show you're willing and able to commit whatever they're asking you to do. >> pete, in your time with this guy, did you see him commit any acts of violence? i know there was a time you guys were playing pool with a white man and an african-american man. what happened there? >> it was -- you were we were
playing doubles pool and drinking a few beers at a local bar in southern california, and everything was very corial. we engaged in small talk throughout the game of pool and afterwards everybody shook hands and went their separate ways. i never saw him engage in an act of violence. i do know that during the time i knew him he got into a bar fight at one point and actually didn't do so well. and was around him at another point in time at a bar where another individual actually released from prison who was a neo-nazi skin head who was really kind of agitated, kind of somewhat of a firecracker, was looking to get into a fight at this bar, and page actually remained pretty calm and cool and collected throughout that evening. >> well, pete simi, i appreciate you talking about the guy you knew back then. t.j. lydon, thank you for your perspecti
perspective. i want to point out again that neither our guests, nor we, are suggesting these crazy white power beliefs are rampant in the military. they're of course isolated incidents. it's a very small subculture. serious of course but isolated from all the research we've been able to see. we're on facebook. let us know what you think. follow me on twitter or insta gram. @andersoncooper. i'll be tweeting in the hour ahead. we're joined next by a woman who actually helped raise this killer. where she thinks he began drifting into a world of racism and hate. we'll be right back. [ annie ] this is the story of a girl named annie who dreamed she could fly. like others who braved the sky before her, it took a mighty machine, and plain old ingenuity to go where no fifth grader had gone before. ♪ and she flew and she flew, into the sky and beyond. my name is annie and i'm the girl who dreamed she could fly. powered by intel core processors.
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the sikh temple shooter's neighbors described the man she knew as creepy and quiet. tells the local paper here, quote, he made no eye contact. that's an abnormal thing. late last week, she says he began blasting his stereo. he spent about ten minutes passi pacing around his truck staring into space. joining me now is a woman who says she knew a very different wade page, his ex-stepmother, lawyura page, who joins us now phone. i can't imagine what the last couple of days have been like for you. when you first heard this news, when you first heard your former stepson had gone on this ram panel what went through your mind? >> i was appalled. i was totally -- it was unbelievable. i guess in a lot of ways it's still unbelievable. even though i keep seeing everything.
>> how the long were you involved in his life? when was the last time you saw him? >> i hadn't seen wade since about 1999. but prior to that, from 1980, up to that point, i was involved in his life. >> so the last time you saw him, he was what, about 18 years old? >> no, he was a little wbit oldr than that. he had already come back to colorado and was -- at that point, he was already out of the military and we didn't know that. >> oh, you didn't know he was out of the military? did you know why he had been kicked out of the military? >> no. didn't know he wasn't in the military. at that point, we thought he was still in the military. the last time i saw him. >> and we're now finding out about ties he had to the white supremacist movement. did at the time you know
anything about that? were you aware even that he held these kind of views? >> no, absolutely not. knew nothing about it. had no indication. >> i read an interview -- >> there was never any indication that he had this -- these feelings or thoughts. >> i read an interview you did with a lot station in denver in which you said that your gut feeling was his racist views may have been formed while he was in the army. can you expand on that? what makes you think that? >> because he was -- prior to that, everything i've ever known about wade was kind and gentle and loving and -- none of those things. and that went up through his teenage years. and i can't figure out where that came from. i really can't. unless it took place while he was in the military. >> so as a teenager, he didn't
express any kind of hostility, two people of different races or different religious beliefs or anything like that? >> no, never. when he lived with that in texas, he had hispanic friends and he had black friends and, you know, i never, ever heard him say anything derogatory about another race or anyone. all i can keep repeating is how kind and loving and gentle he was. >> so he actually had friends who were african-american or hispanic? >> yes, yes, he did, as a teenager, yes, he did. >> when the pictures that have now been shown of him, you know, in front of a swastika and the like, when you saw that, i mean, how do you reconcile the kid you knew with those images? >> it's like i don't even know
that person. it's like someone that -- it's not someone that i could possibly know or be associated with. when i saw the very first picture of him, i would not have known him. had they not said that that was wade. >> and we're told now in the military he had a drinking problem and also subsequently he drank a lot. as a teen, was that an issue at all? >> never. no, sir. never at all. no, all of these things have come up since then. >> since then. well, again laura page, i appreciate you talking. i know it's been a really difficult time for you. i appreciate you telling us what you know. thank you very much. tonight, we also most importantly want to focus on the victims. six people whose lives were lost. so many friends and family
members whose lives were changed forever. next, we'll hear from their family members, including the so son of the only woman killed in the shooting. >> she collapsed there. she didn't have a chance. they said she was dead on the spot. because it matters. at hp we don't just believe in the power of technology. we believe in the power of people when technology works for you. to dream. to create. to work. if you're going to do something. make it matter. last season was the gulf's best tourism season in years. in florida we had more suntans... in alabama we had more beautiful blooms... in mississippi we had more good times... in louisiana we had more fun on the water. last season we broke all kinds of records on the gulf. this year we are out to do even better... and now is a great time to start. our beatches are even more relaxing...
six people died in the shooting at the temple here in oak creek, wisconsin, six lives lost, countless friends and family member's lives changed forever. i want to focus on the victims. to tell you some of their stories. not just how they died. in a place that was supposed to be about safety and sanctuary and prayer, but also how they lived. randi kaye reports. >> reporter: arrived at the temple with her father-in-law just before 10:00 a.m. they stopped to pray before she went to the kitchen to cook. then she said suddenly a 16-year-old boy said there was
something shooting. but not her father-in-law who was still in the main part of the temple. >> i heard shooting and shooting and shooting. i don't know how many times. >> reporter: coolwant and the others stayed locked in the pantry until the shooting stopped and the suspect was dead. she soon learned her father-in-law was dead too. when you left the temple, you saw your father-in-law. tell me about that. >> i come in. then my father-in-law is left over there. he's like this. face this way. his legs this way. he lay down like this. and his nose is touched on the cloth. >> reporter: he was bleeding? >> yeah, he's bleeding. a lot of bleeding over there. all bleeding. then i see and right away i'm crying. "oh, my god, it's my father." subegh singh used to walk to
temple. until his health started to fail a couple of months ago. he was a very religious man. >> very. he was at our temple, guawara, every single day. if you could get there at 7:00 in the morning, that's where he would be. >> reporter: he would stay late in the night. >> yeah, 2:00, 3:00. he would spent most of his time there with the priest and stuff. >> reporter: singh was a father in india, until he and his wife moved to wisconsin eight years ago. he used to tend this garden? >> he did, yeah. he actually used to cut the whole grass up until like a couple months ago when his health started declining. >> reporter: singh couldn't speak english but his family says he loved america. she says all her grandfather wanted was to be healthy enough to make it to her wed just four months away. what will you miss about him the most? >> just him being around. even if he wouldn't say anything, his presence was always here. >> reporter: satwant singh kaleka died defending his
temple. with a knife, managed to slow down the shooter just enough, his family says, to save some lives. we don't have a picture of parkash singh, the youngest victim. moved to oak creek just eight weeks ago. friends call him a noble soul. in sort of a strange premonition, one temple member told "the milwaukee sentinel" that parkash had expressed concern about dying. he was 39 and all three of his brothers died before turning 40. ranjit singh and his younger brother both died in the shooting. sending money back to his wife and three children in india. seeta singh had moved to wisconsin just six months ago with hopes of finding a better life for his family. the only killed in the shooting was parmjit kaurt tour.
>> screaming is the ladies. i hear. then i said, oh, my gosh, somebody killed. she's screaming. ahhh. i said, oh, my gosh. >> reporter: parmjit was 41 and the mother of two sons. she was gunned down in the middle of her prayers. her boys spoke with cnn's poppy harlow. >> she collapsed there. she didn't have a chance. they said she was dead on the spot. >> reporter: parmjit's son had rushed to the temple and looked for his mom among those who survived. she wasn't there. >> i just want to know where she was laying. i want to go back and look. >> reporter: why? >> it's the last time she was there. >> reporter: she and her family came to the u.s. about eight years ago. every week, she came to the
temple to pray and prepare food for the shared meal. randi kaye joins me now live. i understand two young men we just saw, they actually want to get into law enforcement. >> right, her boys. this has really cemented that for them. one of them is studying criminal justice. their mother was everything to them, anderson. she was selfless. if their wasn't enough money for food, they ate first and she waited. she's been saving up every penny to take them to india and they finally all went as a family. they got to see the golden temple together. thank goodness they had that. i did mention this other victim in my story, perkash singh. we said we didn't have a picture of him. we just got that in. this is the man who just of mooed here to town eight weeks ago to town with his family, just 39 years old. who lost all his brothers by the time they turned 40. and had this strange premonition something was going to happen to him. and he was killed, gunned down. >> so many lives really forever
changed, in addition to those lost. randi, appreciate that reporting. as randi mentioned, the temple's president was fatally wounded when his family says he tried to take down the shooter. he fought till his last breath for the temple and the people in it. his son joins me live. it's kind of a dumb question but how are you, your mom and your family doing today? >> i mean, no, not a dumb question. the grieving process is long and hard. i think many people need to kind of see it and witness it. it almost feels like everybody's joining us. >> does it feel really? we talked yesterday about how it doesn't feel really. >> that's the first thing they tell you, it feels like a bad cream. there's a thing in our cutture where we spread suffering out. instead of having one person suffer, we have everybody come to the house. so we've had -- >> your house was full yesterday when i was there. >> absolutely, it doubled today. >> you actually saw your father today. >> saw my father. anderson, how do you learn about these things?
>> -- a reporter -- >> but my mom -- >> that was important for your mother. >> absolutely. she wanted -- we got to that point where we were actually lat laughing about what dad would do and say. she got to the point now where she was, like, i need to see him. he arrived where he needed to be. and they quickly got it ready for us and worked hard and we went and saw our father. just, it broke everybody down. >> you're actually even now able to tell happy stories about your dad. because that's -- for many people, that takes years, to be able to do that. >> you know, for us, in our culture, it's not an end or, you know, it's not the end when somebody dies. their soul and energy kind of traverses into the universe and helps influence other events. >> so you believe he will still, in a way, he's still there, he's still out there. >> absolutely. in fact, i talked to jeff tinder who his father died in a similar
tragedy in california where he was shot. he told me to this day like, you know, an angel behind me helping me. and in our culture, we also say we don't use the word "death." we say -- [ speaking foreign language ] meaning his work is complete or he's complete. he is. >> one of the things we talked about yesterday was your dad, one of the first things he did when he was able to buy a house after working 18 hours a day coming to this country, working around the clock, your mom working around the clock, put an american flag right out front. and i found it sobering that he did it both as a participant in the american dream but also he said as a form of protection. what did he mean by that? >> you know, he meant that we have to take some things in as a culture. so that we can blend better. and in that form of, like, putting a flag in front, symbolism to the neighborhood, that we're willing to accept that dream and come into this
nation just as equal as everybody else and move forward. >> and he had to achieve that american dream. >> i think so. humb humbly, i think so. i think, you know, he did -- i think he's highly successful. amazing amount of people are coming to his, you know, funeral and wake. that's a good life. >> and he raised good kids. >> thank you, anderson. >> that's most important of all. >> absolutely. >> the funeral's friday. there's going to be a large funeral? >> it's going to be an amazing gathering. it's going to be an amazing gathering. because this is the first time this has ever been done. we're having six open caskets. or it's going to be the choice of the families. but of course we're setting everything up for one community, everybody to come together. we're going to even have a media area so you're more than invited. we want the whole world to go through one of our medications or sections so they understand, okay, this is the music they were playing. this is what happened.
this is what's been going on. this is what sikhs stand for. >> the other thing we talked about yesterday, i think it's important to reiterate, is you've experienced incidents in your own life where people -- you never reported to police but where people gave you the finger driving or said things to you when you were living in georgia a couple years ago about, get out of my country, go back to your country, things like that, that never get reported. i don't want to say what do you hope comes out of it but what do you hope changes? >> i mean, in terms of that, and i call them soft attacks, there's like a hard attack like this or -- somebody last year, actually 18 months ago, one of my aunts was working in a gas station and she was shot point blank and she was pregnant. like six months pregnant. that's a hard attack. but that wasn't a hate crime because it would have been a robbery, even though they didn't grab anything. but socft attacks. i want other people to talk about their soft attacks. because essentially that will give us the pulse of the nation, that will give us what's going on.
agencies can't do its job. education can't do its job. if we're not spieaking up and saying, okay, for example, the guy who whipped the finger at me, he hit me with his truck, pulled it around, then whipped the finger at me. it's like one of those things. do i take up the time and then end up, you know, calling the cops and wasting an hour of my life -- >> but you hope that people just come to appreciate differences and the diversity of this country more. >> i think that's the simplest solution out there. i think the other way of reporting everything is unbelievably hard. i just hope americans can genuinely understand other cultures and get the hate bug out of them. i mean, i played football. how many times did my coach tell me, oh, go kill that guy. i was thinking to myself, the way i grewterminology. i would use the terminology of, like tackle that guy. we just need to rip that out of our nation. >> appreciate you talking to us again. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. >> my best to your family. within hours of the
shootings at the sikh temple here in oak creek, wisconsin, a fire destroyed the only mosque income joplin, missouri. investigators are not calling it arson yet but the monk has been a target of arson before, just over a month ago, in fact. muslims in joplin say they are scared. you're going to hear from them ahead. living in a beautifully imperfect world. it's amazing we've made it this far. maybe it's because when one of us messes up, someone else comes along to help out. that's the thing about humans. when things are at their worst, we're at our best. see how at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? fore!
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fear is an act of hate. the city'sonly mosque went up in flames and burned to the ground. the straeinvestigation is stillr way. but the mosque has been a target of arson before. here's gary tuchman. >> reporter: a heart broken and frightened father and daughter. looking at what remains of their mosque. >> that's the prayer hall. dining room. classrooms. >> reporter: it still smolders. it happened in the middle of the night. less than 24 hours after the shooting attack in the sikh temple in wisconsin. the fire that destroyed the only mosque in the community is viewed as suspicious by investigators. although authorities don't yet have proof this was an arson, there was another blaze here just over a month ago. and investigators have the ultimate proof that blaze was an arson. what's that ultimate proof? video of the guy doing it.
this is surveillance video of a man whose face you can see clearly setting the roof of the mosque ablaze on july 4th. despite the relatively clear video, nobody has been arrested for that attack. in a separate incident in 2008, the mosque sign was torched. that incident remained unsolved as well. people in the 150-member mosque pledged to rebuild but admit they're scared. >> incidents like this, they're tragic and they put fear in people's heart and that's what they're meant to do. >> i was really sad. we couldn't believe that it was happening. i mean, to us. >> to put it bluntly, it's a shock. >> reporter: joplin, missouri, is the town where catastrophic tornadoes killed 158 people last spring. the city was devastated in every way. but for the most part, has come back. now this. layla sete is 16 years old. >> it's completely unlike the joplin spirit. we hear all the time about how, you know, people have come together to help rebuild this
town and it's unfortunate that we have to do that because somebody else didn't want this building here. >> reporter: just one night before the attack, this mosque was the site of an interdominational ramadan break the fast dinner. christians and s and jews wer this building with their muslim brothers and sisters. offering any help the mosque might need. >> thank you so much. god bless you. >> reporter: navid zaidi says he has gotten similar offers from other people of faith. >> we have got lovely neighbors. the synagogue. has been just a beautiful town for us. >> reporter: reality is now sinking in. somebody is after them. definitely from the july 4th incident and very likely now too. does it make you scared, laila? >> i think in a sense yes, it scared me that there are people out there who are so ignorant and uneducated and something as simple as understanding a group
of people that they would go out to harm them. for all we know, that person could have felt there was someone here or what if there was someone here or what if somebody had done something as tragic as what happened in wisconsin simply out of their ignorance and that's what scares me. >> reporter: the muslims of joplin pledge to rebuild and keep the faith. >> gary tuchman now joins us live from joplin. you saw that video surveillance. is there video from this one as well? looking at the surveillance, you can see this guy's face. i'm amazed they have not been able to catch the anderson. they say they have leads, the police, but they still have not been able to nail it down. they have a $25,000 reward for anyone who gives information that leads to an arrest and conviction. they know there's somebody out there who knows who this man is. they have not gotten that information yet. inside this mosque, there was 16
surveillance cameras. we don't know the answer because police are not telling us. they say it will hinder the investigation. but they either have video of a perpetrator or they want a perpetrator to think they have video. this was a devastating blaze. you can still see, 40 hours later, this blaze is still smoldering as we speak. and people in this community are just very grateful nobody was inside this mosque when the fire started. anderson. >> gary tuchman, appreciate that, thanks very much. we have a rare look inside the fight for syria. our ben wedeman spent the last few days in aleppo where the battle is raging. the city is still under siege. ben and his crew got out of the city a short time ago. we'll tell you what he saw next. y diesel self-serve fix a flat jumper cables 5% cashback signup for 5% cashback at gas stations through september. it pays to discover. on my driver's seat. this is my car. who are you?
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want to get you up to date on what's happening in syria. we keep seeing over and over in syria is the killing can always get worse and today it did. at least 170 people were killed across the country today. fighting raged in the two biggest cities, damascus and aleppo it ben wedeman has been inside aleppo for two days. it is now too dangerous to stay there. stepped-up bombing raids like this one. heavy shelling has turned parts of it to rubble. the video claims to be from two days ago. ben has reported that aleppo is, quote, coming to resemble a battered urban moon scape. that's how he described it. the u.n. pulls its monitors out of aleppo today. syrian state tv showed this video. the top aide to iran's supreme leader. earlier today, i spoke to ben wedeman about what he's seen. ben, aleppo still very much under siege. what did you see on the ground
today? >> what we saw was lots of bombing by syrian air force jets over areas that are clearly still heavily populated by civilians. we saw one plane just making sort of run after run. first dropping very large bombs. then strafing the area. and that is the tactic throughout aleppo. either using these air force jets or firing heavy artillery into the city. in fact, we got very little sleep last night because of the constant explosion all around the areas of the city that are controlled by the free syrian army. and even though according to humanitarian officials more than 200,000 people have left areas of aleppo, there are still hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of civilians still in those areas.
unable to get out. the humanitarian situation is very difficult. food is running low. many people cannot afford to buy much more food because they cannot work under these circumstances. one man i spoke to said he and his family of six are sleeping in the stairwell of their apartment building simply to hide from the possibility of a shell hitting their house. the situation is difficult. and made even more tense by the fact that many people feel and fear that the syrian government forces, which are gathering outside of aleppo, are about to launch an offensive to try and stop the rebellion in this city. >> a city with a large civilian population. are they hitting specific targets or even aiming at specific targets or is this just random shelling, indiscriminate
shelling? >> well, it staas far as when t raids happen, they do seem to be targeting specific areas, specific targets. however, the artillery seems pretty random. it seems to be focused on sort of the neighborhoods that are near the front line. i don't think the syrian army has much in the way of precision weaponry and they certainly aren't using it, if they do, in aleppo. >> is there any sense on which side has the upper hand? i think some have been surprised of the ability of the rebels to fight back. but you say the government forces may be massing for an actual ground assault. >> i think the government forces themselves were surprised by the voracity of the uprising in aleppo. for months and months, aleppo was relatively quiet compared to other cities like homs and hamma. they were taken aback and initially on the defensive.
i think at this point the free syrian army and the other rebel forces have really taken as much as they can. and now they're coming up against fresh reinforcements coming from the west on the mediterranean coast and coming from the south and damascus. but at the end of the day, the rebels have very little in the way of heavy weaponry. in fact, they don't have any heavy weaponry. for the most part, they have assault rifles and some heavy machine guns but that's about it. you compare that with the government tanks, its artillery and its aircraft, they're just -- it's far from an equal fight. >> well, ben wedeman, it's an extremely dangerous situation, pasz y as you know, please stay safe. thank you, ben. isha's here with a "360" news and business bulletin. >> accused shooting jared lee loughner pled guilty.
six people died. under the plea deal, the government agreed to not pursue the death penalty. loughner has been forcibly medicated for months to treat his schizophrenia. he was ruled competent to stand trial. the contractor once known as black water has agreed to pay a $7.5 million fine to settle u.s. charges of arm sales and training violations. the agreement covers the sales of satellite phones in sudan and military training to foreign governments which didn't have approval from the state department or u.s. treasury. a "360" follow now. the milton hershey school in pennsylvania has changed course and is now offering to admit a teenager who was denied entry last year because he's hiv positive. the boy's lawyer said his client is considering the offer while a lawsuit filed on his behalf is going forward. nasa released the first color images of his surface of mars from its new rover
curiosity. they showled the rim of the crater where the rover touched down. a nasa flight director has become an internet sensation. he is even receiving marriage proposals from fans on twitter. he's putting the sexy back in mohawk, anderson. >> isha, thanks very much. we'll be right back. i knew it'd be tough on our retirement savings, especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again. call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader.
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from now. another edition of "360" at 10:00 p.m. eastern. thanks for watching. "piers morgan tonight" starts now. tonight, does america have a gun problem? six dead in the wisconsin temple attack. >> you would never think this would ever happen to your family. >> 12 dead in the aurora shootings. >> i've got seven down in theater nine! >> six dead in the tucson shooting that nearly took of life of gabby giffords. is america doing enough to keep guns from getting into the wrong hands? a no hold's barred debate. plus, governor romney on welfare. >> he'd ask the middle class. it's like robin hood in reverse. it's romney hood. >> tonight, the campaigns square off. and a day at the beach turns terrifying. my prime-time exclusive of the survivor of the cape cod shark
attack. this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening. our big story tonight, inside the mind of a shooter. jared lee loughner, the alleged gunman of the tucson shooting that killed six people and nearly killed gabby giffords entered a not guilty plea in a court today. a judge ruled him competent to stand trial. this comes after news the psychiatrist who treated the alleged aurora shooter james holmes was so concerned about his behavior. an abc news reporter yesterday even contacted university police. in oak creek wisconsin, police saying tonight there are links between a white supremacist movement and this man. he was mentioned in a small number of files going back seven years. all three shooters bought their guns legally. my response to that is why were they