tv The Lead With Jake Tapper CNN July 15, 2013 4:00pm-5:00pm EDT
over the weekend, "not guilty." i'm brooke baldwin. thanks for being with me as we took a look at race in america. and now "the lead" with jake tapper starts now. >> i'm jake tapper. this is "the lead." >> they think he got away with murder. protests calling for a new trial for george zimmerman. will the justice department meet their demands even after a jury said not guilty? >> no ankle bracelet, no curfew. george zimmerman is a free man. but can anyone ever live a normal life again after being tried for such a heinous crime? we'll ask the attorney who defended someone who would know, casey anthony. >> and the pop culture lead, putting her name anywhere near a book guarantees an instant best seller. so why did j.k. rowling try to
go incognito and release her new novel under a pen name? >> good afternoon, i'm jack tapper. we'll begin with the national league. perhaps not wanting to appear as if they're gloating, george zimmerman supporters have remained mostly quiet since the not guilty verdict saturday night. not so for those who wanted him to be found guilty in a trial that brought new light to race, racial profiling and captured a company. the mayor and police chief acheer appeared at a community prayer service today and praised the way the community has reacted. >> let's talk about what the issues are. this community is coming together to talk about where we are today and how we can move forward. >> the justice department is now
considering civil rights charges against zimmerman as the verdict brings thousands of outraged protesters into the streets. law enforcement warned people to stay peaceful and for the most part they did. as thousands of americans took to the streets to protest what they consider a miscarriage of justice. many braved the summer heat in hoodies showing solidarity with trayvon martin. but not everything stayed peaceful. sunday in los angeles swelling crowds refused police orders to disperse and then according to police threw batteries, rocks and concrete at police. officers fired bean bag rounds at the crowd and arrested seven people. on the other side of town, marchers should down a freeway. and marchers rushed to harlem. but generally the clashes were
few, even if emotions were were. >> perhaps we can take this anger and move it into a positive vein. if nothing else, this snapped our necks back. >> we are going to continue as a people to fight against this madness, this brutality till it stops. >> reverend jesse jackson, sr. urged calm. >> they must let no act discredit of legacy of trayvon martin or the appeal of his family. because in the long run we will prevail in the struggle for justice. >> you said in your word let justice roll down like water -- >> meanwhile the naacp and others are calling on the justice department to press federal civil rights charges against zimmerman. >> there cannot be two standards in america, one for white people and one for black people. those days are over. >> experts say that such a prosecution would be extremely difficult to mount with any real chance of success and at the
white house briefing room today president obama's spokesman would not touch it. across town today, attorney general eric holder gave a luncheon for an african-american sorority. >> the justice department shares your concern. i share your concern. >> and he referred to the shooting as unnecessary. >> the tragic, unnecessary shooting death of trayvon martin in sanford, florida last year. >> some zimmerman supporters expressed disappointment that holder called the death unnecessary, since that would seem to suggest the highest ranking law enforcement official in the land may be rejecting the self-defense argument of the acquitted defendant, mr. zimmerman. zimmerman's argument thought it was, in fact, necessary to shoot trayvon martin and the jury agreed that that was at the very least a possibility. and what about george zimmerman? are more charges ahead? naacp officials tell cnn they have around 800,000 signatures
on their online petition social security for the justice department to file federal civil rights charges against zimmerman. the web site was so overloaded with visits it crashed for a couple hours yesterday. the justice department opened an investigation on the case over a year ago. attorney general eric holder acknowledged today at that event that the investigation is still ongoing. >> i want to assure you the department will continue to act in a manner that is consistent with the facts and the law. we are committed to standing with the people of sanford, with the individuals and family affected by this incident and by our state and local partners to alleviate tensions, address community concerns and to promote healing. >> but how realistic is it that zimmerman would face federal charges after being acquitted? let's bring in our legal panel. sunny hostin is a cnn legal
analyst and linda kenney baden. discussion of these federal chashlgs have typicly been applied to public pliies like the police officers in the rodney king case. can you walk us through this high bar? what would be needed? is this really credible? >> it is a high bar. i do, jake, think that it's a possibility. i think it's credible and we do know the justice department has a parallel investigation going on into this matter and they have had for some time, for about a year now. and that investigation, as the attorney general said, was still ongoing. what they would have to prove is under the matthew shepherd and james bird act, the hate crime act many people call it, it was passed in 2009. they would have to prove that george zimmerman's actions were racially motivated, that he willfully injured trayvon martin because of his race, that part of it was because of his race. i don't know. when you look at that and you know when it's race based that the federal government does have jurisdiction, i think that it
certainly is a possibility. and although the state did not use race as an element in this case, remember the state was precluded from calling it racial profiling. they did call it profiling, that george zimmerman profiled trayvon martin as a criminal. i don't think it's such a leap to argue, yes, he profiled him as a criminal because he was african-american because other african-americans in his view were the ones getting away, were the ones, you know -- criminals, the ones that were criminals in his community. so i don't think it's a stretch when people are arguing that it's an impossibility for the justice department to bring case here. >> linda, after the verdict the prosecutor said that this case was not about race. what do you think is the likelihood of the justice department actually filing these charges? >> jake, i'd been involved in cases where there is a justice department investigation or
request for investigation. i this it's highly unlikely. the justice department already filed one report that race wasn't the underlying reason for the case. i don't think it's going to happen. usually they take these cases when there is an actual racial component or civil rights act when there is excessive force and usually it has to do with more than one shot, usually a pattern of practice, normally a police community problems, such as we saw in new jersey with the new jersey state police and racial profiling. but a one-shot case from a private citizen that is not a political assassination is going to be very difficult to bring under these circumstances. >> listen to what george zimmerman's defense attorney said the night of the acquittal. >> and on the civil aspect, if someone believes that it's appropriate to sue george zimmerman, then we will seek and we will get immunity if a civil
hearing and see just how many civil lawsuits from spawned from this fiasco. >> what did mark o'mara mean when he said we will get immunity? >> if a judge found that stand your ground applied he'd get automatic immunity from all aren arenas. now, there was a jury charge that said george zimmerman had a right to stand his ground. what oma'mara will argue is he does have immunity because the jury accepted the stand your ground immunity in their not guilty verdict. that's going to be litigatable by both sides. does that count or does it have to be another judge's hearing? >> sunny, zimmerman is also filing -- he has also filed a lawsuit against nbc for that misleading editing of that
package in which he sounded as if he was bringing up race on his own, he wasn't asked about it. how likely is that suit to be successful? >> you know, i'm not sure about that, jake. i wasn't aware that actually he had filed the suit. i know that mark o'mara said that was something they were going to do. i'm not sure of the result of that. i wonder, though, if trayvon martin's family is thinking about filing a wrongful death suit. we do see wrongful death suits on the civil side, even when there is a not guilty verdict, an acquittal on the criminal side. but i think linda makes a good point. because stand your ground is this sort of odd law that florida has and it's in a couple of other states, he may have that civil immunity, at least his attorneys havend kated that they are going to seek that immunity. i think that it's something that people have been talking about all day, all yesterday, can trayvon martin's family at least get some sort of justice or what
they perceive to be justice in the civil arena, which has a lower standard of proof. it's only preponderance of the evidence. i think florida is not going to afford them that. >> stand your ground not invoked in this trial but may be in the next one. >> coming up, he's a free man but his own brother says george zimmerman will be looking over his shoulder the rest of his life. we'll ask casey anthony's lawyer what george zimmerman's life could look like after the verdict. and if the royal baby is a girl, it could radically modernize the royals.
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who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you thousands a year in out-of-pocket costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. welcome back to "the lead," i'm jake tapper. >> the george zimmerman trial has provided an opportunity for soul searching. there are those who believe race was merely injected into the
case, there are others who insist race is now and always has been the heart of the case. the hoodie has become something of a symbol for those who believe african-american men can be rendered suspicious not by their actions but by their very presence. it was written "the idea that the actions zimmerman took that night were those of a reasonable man, that the conclusion he's drew were sound and that a black teen-ager can be considered armed any time he is walking down a paved street." and how can both sides -- both sides. all sides attempt to learn something from the other. joining us is writer jelani cobb. gentlemen, zimmerman defense attorney mark o'mara was asked how would this case have played out in george zimmerman were black? >> i think things would have
been different for this reason -- he never would have been charged with a crime. >> jelani, what's your reaction to that? he never would have been charged with a crime if it had been a black-on-black crime? >> i don't think that's true at all. i don't know what his meaning of that was. he seems to have set up such that we're supposed to believe mr. zimmerman was the victim in all this. there were two people there that night. one of them was deceased. it was not his client. that obviates the idea that it's his client. and it sets an issue that people don't care if a black man is killed at the hands of a black person. that's not true. in an issue where the perpetrator is nonblack, there's
a public policy alibi that makes it happens that what happened with zimmerman would happen, he'd walk out of the previocinc house as a person who was acquitted. >> let's talk about that. this is something we've been hearing a lot of in the wake of this whole trial. conservatives bring up the story of 16-year-old darrell green, a black teen-ager killed for not joining a gang and conservatives say where is the focus on darrell green? where are the marches for darrell green? obviously the homicide rate in chicago, even if it's lower than it was a year ago is still tragic. i can't say that it's an entirely unfair question. we should, the world, the media world, should be focusing on all these deaths. but what do you say to that? >> i don't understand why you want to spend so much time wondering why there isn't outrage for something when there is outrage for something when we know the larger problem.
i wouldn't spend any more time trying to prove that one death was more worthy of outrage than another. look at the root problem. we have an usual with young black men being targeted by whom ever. i don't care who is outraged where. >> for you it doesn't matter who pulls the trigger? >> no. it shouldn't matter who pulls the trigger. we can't have a generation of people thinking that the murderous ways that occur on a regular basis in america are okay. it's not. >> jelani, i know this bothers you when we bring it up because we talked about it yesterday on cnn. do you think this is an attempt to deflect, chang the subject? what is your ish when people talk about chicago gang violence? >> they're kind of apples and oranges kind of situations. and if people remember, there was a young woman, miss pendleton who was killed in chicago, and there was a
tremendous amount of outpouring of grief, demands that her death not be in vain, that people remember this is something that's going on in the city and so on. there's organizations like the interrupters, there are increase the peace rallies. but those are not the ones that conservatives talk about, that these critics have talked about. when we look at the disproportionate number of african-americans who support strict gun control laws, it is directly related to this idea that they understand black men are somewhere around 20 times more likely to die as a result of homicide than their white counterparts. none of this is taken in a vacuum. the simple fact is that without people getting into the street, there would never have been charges brought against zimmerman. for 44 days last spring mr. zimmerman was able to walk around free after he it taken the life of trayvon martin and it wasn't deemed as even worthy of further investigation. that's what the concern was. why are there protests and rallies in the case of trayvon
martin and not other instances? it's because trayvon martin's death would have been unnoticed by official police powers had it not been for the protests. >> chief lee says they were investigating but said they didn't have enough to build a case. david webb, i'm glad we've been able to get you in. you said this case is not about profiling. >> we don't know what his assumptions were so we can't draw that distinction. but in the circumstance i think it's fair to say that had he seen a white person in a hoodie exhibiting the same behavior, based on what we know about him, he would have acted the same way. when it comes to the fact, and we have to stick with the facts on this, jake, that in florida you can charge on bias and jelani just talked about the case initially where they didn't
raise charges so there were protests. the fact is we now see an acquittal not only on second degree murder but any lesser charges put forth in judges instructions. they had a full acquittal. therefore the case was never there to charge him. that's the legal aspect of this. but what we're being drawn into is that now that there is unstats fax over the verdict by a jury, by both the prosecutors who had to put forth their case and by the defense that did put forth their case successfully, that we now have dissatisfaction and we go back to the human cry of it's racism, therefore this becomes the next narrative and it's the circus beyond the travesty and the circus that surrounded this trial from -- or the incident from 17 months ago until the trial. >> you can't separate race from this case. i think most people believe if he does not see a blake teen-ager, he does not approach them -- >> if you can't separate them,
how do you connect race? >> it's a point that -- the other point that we should bear in mind, david, that is that mr. zimmerman made 46 phone calls to the police in the preceding six years only to african-americans. he had called the police on no one else. and prior to this when he did the initial interview in the precinct house, they asked him why did he pursue against the advice of the police. he said because "they always get away." who gets away? a person who is going home with snacks? >> he didn't say blacks, he said they. >> the only people who were suspicious were african-americans. >> the calls don't go to the incident. when you look at the statistics and anyone can call the local police department and get the crime statistics. it's not also unreasonable to say that when you have a large amount of incidences, large amount of crimes committed by
blacks that there is going to be whether you're black, white, hispanic or anything a natural impef t impetus to say i'm going to be more aware of that dynamic. >> that's the thing, not everybody naturally says because i've seen some people committing some crimes -- >> but you keep attaching it -- you cannot show a direct attachment to race in this case. you can say it all you want but you cannot attach it, nor can i detach it as being possible, however, it's what you can prove and the fbi, they investigated this in 2012. they said there was no civil rights violation. the prosecutors could have done it on the florida law. they do not charge on the basis of bias because there was no there that they could show in court. >> that doesn't mean it's not true. >> well, it's kind of like when did you stop beating your wife? that kind of throws out a negative and now you have to defend it. >> that's actually not the case, david. if you recall there was witness
nine, a blood relative of mr. zimmerman who said that he held quite prominently racist ideas as it related to african-americans. that testimony was not allowed in, that person was not allowed into the testimony. >> but then they didn't allow the toxicology of trayvon, sad as it is that he's dead. they disallow things in trial if they find them not relevant or credible. >> again, that's not true. the minuscule amount of marijuana that was in mr. martin's blood stream was brought up in the case. what we did not find out because he was never tested was what was in george zimmerman's blood stream. beyond this, you know, this has become a kind of instance of blame the victim here. >> i'm not blaming the victim. >> let me finish, david. there were two people who were there that night. one of those people had a criminal record, one did not. the person who had a criminal record with two instances of violence, once for domestic violence and once for assault on a police officer is the person who did the shooting, yet our
concern has predominantly been with the person who was shot. >> jelani, let me ask you a fair question, i think it's a fair question we should all ask ourselves. if you're going to use everything about zimmerman's background, then is everything about trayvon's background also valid? >> well, everything particularly relating to someone who has incidents of violence -- >> is it relevant -- >> no, because one person has been shot. >> then you're not being honest in your answer. >> jelani and david, eight great conversation. we've let it go along because it's so good. unfortunately we have to take a break. to be continued. we are going to take talking about this and we will have all of you back to talk about it. thank you so much for your views, for your passion, for come here today. stay with cnn for continuing coverage of the verdict.
tonight piers morgan will have an exclusive interview with rachel jeantel, the young woman who was on the phone with trayvon martin right before he was killed. coming up, he's got secrets that he said can hurt the u.s. government. can edward snowden be trusted to keep secrets? helping business run ♪ ♪ build! we're investing big to keep our country in the lead. ♪ load! we keep moving to deliver what you need. and that means growth, lots of cargo going all around the globe. cars and parts, fuel and steel, peas and rice, hey that's nice! ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪ ♪ helping this big country move ahead as one ♪ ♪ norfolk southern how's that function? ♪ [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases.
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london waited for the birth of the new prince or princess. if you believe the british tabloids and, really, who doesn't? catherine, the duchess of cambridge, is expected to give birth any minute now. max foster, what's the latest? >> we know that prince william has taken the next few days off work. he's now back in london at his wife's side, giving some suggestion that he's bracing for a due date. we've only been given mid july's due badate but we all know pregnancy doesn't happen by the big. a survey says only 9% of british babies are born on the due date. but the media is taking its chances. it's a surprise to many people
here how much interest there is around the world. all the u.s. networks are here. for one example, there have been some polish networks and one of the pundits here has been interviewed five times by five different polish networks. >> i didn't know there were five different polish networks. there are millions of americans fascinated with the royal family. there are also some of us that don't quite understand what the big deal is. can you explain what this is like for the average british citizen, how big a deal it is. >> well, i have say, a recent poll said more people were uninterested than interested in the royal baby. from my experience from working with cnn international, there's a lot more interest outside the u.k. and in the u.k. and the royal family. certainly when i've traveled in the u.s., from an outsider's perspective, there seems to be
this element of celebrity, and it's a level of unattainable celebri celebrity. you can't become a princess without marrying a prince. the unattainable. and it was the ultimate royal wedding, it unfolded brilliantly and perfectly and this is the next stage in that is the baby that emerges out of that royal wedding. so maybe the media's got to wrong but certainly they think it's going to be a big ratings winner and part of a story which we're all following over the years. >> max foster, thank you so much. >> and what happens if it's a baby girl? well, they just changed the law in england in case that happens. we'll tell you more about that after this break. up meeting a lot more people but a friend under water is something completely different. i met a turtle friend today so,
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back to that royal story. what happens if william and kate's baby is a girl? it could potentially help to modernize the monarchy. regardless of if the child is a boy or girl, he or she is next in line for the thrown. explain to me, for the first time in the history of the royals, what? >> what's really interesting is previously you have to be a boy to get that thrown pretty much, and the only girls that get the thrown are those with no brothers. for example, viktoria elizabeth ii, elizabeth iii. in british history we've always privileged the king and now this is completely different. this baby, if it's a girl, will be our next queen. and it doesn't matter how many brothers she has. she'll get the title, she'll get
the land, she'll be the richest woman in europe, one of the richest women in the world. this is a big move forward. it's a big blow for female equality, we're saying a woman can do the job and the monarch has caught up with britain, where it's supposed to be equality. >> would you think this would have happened decades ago. two of england east best loved monarchs have been women. queen victoria and queen elizabeth ii. can a baby girl be enough to modernize the morning, a narchy? >> we are a bit slow on the upation au uptake and the monday can monar
to change. we love elizabeth ii in this country, she's one of our most popular monarchs. she set a great example in terms of longevity, in terms of being dignified. we just want another girl to do the same job. that's what hopefully we'll going to do sometime this week, fingers crossed. >> thank you. we'll have you back on again soon. >> next up, he's facing death lefts, civil prosecution. will george zimmerman's life ever go back to normal? we'll ask casey anthony's attorney coming up next. every day we're working to be an even better company -
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i'm take t-- jake tapper. >> online some particularly violent threats have been made against zimmerman. his brother and defense attorney describe the life awaiting the man just found not guilty of murder. >> the threats of vicious, they're disgusting and sometimes in person, like people wearing shirts with my brother's face on it in crosshairs, encouraging others to act in violence against him. >> he has to live under protection, on the periphery. >> jose baez represented casey anthony, who was acquitted in the murder of her young daughter. you just heard from zimmerman's brother and attorney.
his brother saying he's threateni threatening vile threats. what are the legitimate safety concerns for zimmerman right now? >> i think the attorneys involved probably have the better idea as to whether are any legitimate threats. when it comes to the online blogosphere, suddenly somebody gets a computer and gets the set of cojones, with them. but they wouldn't act out personally. but there's always someone who is unstable and those are the ones you worry about. >> i know you're not comfortable talking about things you directly told casey anthony and advice to her. but if you were george
zimmerman's attorney, what advice would you give to him in terms of safety? would you tell him to move to another state? would you tell him not to give any interviews? >> first and foremost george is going to have to decide how to live the rest of his life. unfortunately for george he has a certain demographic that believes in his innocence and has supported him. his entire defense was funded by private donations. so you have a situation where there seems to be a split. certain demographic supports him, others don't. he's going to have to, one, find out what he can do financially first and utilize that demographic which helps him. so i think that's what's going to take a priority because in order to ride off into the sunset, you're going to have to have a little bank to do it. >> i want to play something you said in your press conference after casey anthony was acquitted in 2011 in the murder of her 2-year-old daughter-in-law caylee. >> while we're happy for casey,
there are no winners in this case. caylee has passed on far, far too soon. what my driving force has been for the last three years has been always to make sure that there has been justice for caylee and casey. >> that's a very different situation. but zimmerman's defense team was criticized by some for spiking the football on saturday night, for not talking about the loss of the life of trayvon martin. talk, if you would, about the difficult balance between defending your client and also being mindful of the fact that there is a loss of life. >> first off, different lawyers handle things differently. they may have felt that's the way they wanted to be portrayed. when you give that conference that, press conference, it's
very spontaneous and it's how you're feeling and what you're going through at that point in time. now what people forget is that these are tragedies puerto rico the very beginning. and what a lot of people do, they see this on tv, they think it's entertainment and many people take it up like a sport and they root for one side and they get happy when there's a victory for that side, as if it were a sporting event. you know, everyone has to remember this is a tragedy. trayvon martin will never graduate from high school, his folks won't see him walk in graduation. he'll never be able to get married, he'll never be able to have a son or a daughter and look at them in the eye and watch them grow and live his life. his life was ended far, far too soon and people need to remember that and i'm sure the defense lawyers know that and i'm sure they're cognizant of that.
but at the same time, their role in the process was to defend mr. zimmerman. sometimes you get caught up in that process. >> jose baez, thank you so much for your time. we appreciate it. >> coming up, the sensitive data he's leaked may be nothing compared to what he's still sitting on. we'll talk to edward snowden's confidante about the documents that could bring the nsa to its knees. start your feast with a choice of soup, then salad, plus biscuits! next, choose one of nine amazing entrees like new coconut and citrus grilled shrimp or linguini with shrimp and scallops. then finish with dessert. your four course seafood feast, just $14.99. [ mortazavi ] everything needs to be picture perfect. i'm reza, culinary manager. and i sea food differently. imhandle more than 165 billionl letters and packages a year. that's about 34 million pounds of mail every day. ever wonder what this costs you as a taxpayer?
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for every move the nsa ever made. glenn greenwald told the "associated press" snowden has the blueprints for the nsa, how it's built, how it operates. this could be the ultimate dead hand for snowden, a term used in the cold war. he gave certain people access to the encrypted documents he walked off with. it's not clear how that would happen or who would get them. on friday snowden requested asylum again from russia and said he'd agree to the russian's conditions that he'd stop leaking information, something he seemed to initially bristle at. and vladimir putin says his situation is not clear at this
point. he also blames the u.s. for trapping snowden in russia for revoking his passport. glenn greenwald who broke this story for "the guardian" joins us now. if this campaign of snowden is supposed to be true transparency, why is snowden hold willing on to this as an insurance policy? is this what was referred to in the cold war as a "dead hand"? >> no, the reason is because he's is the classically responsible whistleblower. he vetted thousands and thousands of documents and didn't just dump them on the internet. he came to us as established news organizations and said i want you only to publish what is in the public good and not publish things that would cause
gratuitous harm. when i refer to the massive documents he has that could do damage to the u.s. government, what i'm saying is the claim that he's trying to harm the u.s. government is ludicrous. he's done the opposite, asking us to report as juidiciously as we can. >> but there is this information out there thatsomething happens to him, it will be released, is that right? >> no. it's been incredibly distorted. >> when he went to hong kong, before he came to the media he made sure the documents would be released and ensuring people had access to that. his idea is if they try and kidnap me or even kill me, something extreme, i have planned that these stories will still come out, i won't have thrown away my life for nothing. at this point that's
antithetical. he's much too public, that's not going to happen. nothing that's been released has been remotely damaging to national security and that is going to continue to be exactly how it is. >> obviously people in the government would disagree with you on that. glenn, you've been critical of the media's focus on snowden the fugitive, the american media's focus, as opposed to the information he's revealed about the nsa and surveillance. what do you think the public is not getting? what do you think the media is not reporting? >> i actually think the public is getting it. the most recent poll shows it views him as a whistleblower. he sa-- i've said repeatedly a report shows that they're trying to destroy privacy globally and there was an article just this morning in the "washington post" that reported that keith alexander, the head of the nsa's strategy when he was in the iraq
war was a phrase "collect it all," aimed at people in iraq in a war and that is the approach that has now been transplanted to u.s. soil, collect it all, every phone call and e-mail activity that people have with one another. we ought to be debating it and having transparency of it. that's the substance of the story. >> glenn greenwald, thank you so much for your time as always. >> coming up next, hostess is calling it the sweetest come back in the history of -- twinkies. what they're not telling you about the return of the next twinkie, it's not many same frosting filled sponge cake you're used to eating. we'll tell up what's different this time around coming up next. we still run into problems. that's why liberty mutual insurance offers accident forgiveness with our auto policies.
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the return hit a sour note when some fans realized the snacks are much small aer than the original. the company that revived them insists they're the same size. while the boxes used to use 15 ounces, they now weigh about 13.5 ounces. >> and one fan caught four balls at the same game. he says he just tossed the fourth one away to another fan. he did bring his baseball glove to the game. good thing the little kid in him won out. ideal.com put the odds of catching four in one game at progressive field at about 1 in 1 trillion. make sure to follow me on twit