tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN October 6, 2013 1:00pm-2:00pm EDT
thank you for watching "state of the union." i'm candy crowley in washington. head to cnn.com/sotu for analysis and extras throughout the week. if you missed any part of today's show, find us on itunes, search "state of the union." and fareed zakaria is next. his guests include rock star bono and the former minister of iran. this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we have a fascinating show with two big exclusive interviews. we'll start with iran's foreign minister on nuclear negotiations, on prime minister netanyahu's warnings about iran and much more. also -- ♪ it was a beautiful day >> it's a beautiful day when bono comes to the gps set to talk about all manner of things.
from why americans should be proud of foreign aid to why conservatives really do care about the poor. also, tanks, attack helicopters, rocket-propelled grenades, ak-47s, all of them fuel the fires of war. the u.n. wants to regulate this trade. why is that a bad idea? you will not be surprised when i tell you what's the holdup. finally, ever find yourself under fire in a war zone and need help keeping out of harm's way? never fear. there's an app for that. of course there's an app for that. first, here's my take. it is the defining moment of a democracy, when an outgoing leader celebrates the election of a new one from the opposing party. think of george h.w. bush welcoming bill clinton .
across the world, this is the acid test of a genuine democracy. mexicans will tell you they knew they had gotten there when their president, ernesto zedillo, after seven decades of one-party rule, allowed elections and stood with the newly elected successor and affirmed his legitimacy. the basic and powerful idea behind in ritual is in a democracy the process is more important than the outcome. if a genuine democratic process has been followed, we have to accept the results, regardless of how much we may dislike them. the ultimate example of this in recent american history might be al gore's elegant acceptance of the process. >> while i strongly disagree with the court's decision, i accept it. >> complicated, politicized, but utterly constitutional that put george w. bush in the white house. it must also have been very difficult for richard nixon to
report the results of the 1960 election, with john f. kennedy won by a razor thin margin and was marred by voter fraud. but he did. however much you dislike the outcome, you respect the democratic process. that's what is at stake in washington this week. the debate going on there was not trivial, not transitory and not about obama care. whatever you think about the affordable care act, it was a law that was passed by the house of representatives, then the senate, signed by the president, and validated by the supreme court as constitutional. that doesn't mean it can't be repealed. of course it can be repealed, as can most laws, but to do so, you would need another piece of legislation, one that says quite simply the affordable care act is repealed in its entirety.
that would have to pass the house, the senate and be signed into law by the president. what you cannot do, what cannot be allowed to stand is a group of legislators that cannot convince a majority in both houses and the president to agree with them, would then shut down the government or threaten default until they got their way. that is not democracy. that is extortion. i would be happy to see president obama compromise on the budget, taxes, spending, even obama care, but he cannot compromise on the principle that the rules of democracy must be respected whatever the outcome. if democrats had threatened to shut down the government or default on the debt to force the repeal of the bush tax cuts, or to defund the iraq war, i would have hoped that president george bush would also have been uncompromising. america's power and influence abroad deriving large measure from the strength of american democracy. and if politicians here start
playing fast and loose with the rules, dover whatever it takes to get the results they want, what does that say to people in russia? egypt? iran? venezuela? who get pious lectures on the rules of democracy from americans. it tells them there's something deeply rotten with the american system right now. let's get started. a few weeks ago it was unimaginable that the president of the united states and iran would chat, but of course it happened a few weeks ago. very few would have argued there was a real chance that the united states and iran would come to terms on tehran's nuclear program, but that is exactly what my next guest says. he should know. he is the man charged to negotiate a nuclear deal with the. javad zarif, welcome to the show. >> thank you for having me.
>> do you city continue to have that optimism? based on the discussions you had? >> well, the first meeting we had was positive, but we didn't get into the details. and usually it's more difficult to negotiate the details. but i think it's a good beginning, it's a good political jump to the process, and we can start with this -- what i hope to be a political will, a political desire on the part of the members of e-3 plus three and iran to move forward and resolve this issue. what we have done in the past ten years has not benefited, it hasn't benefited iran. we have very serious sanctions that are hurting the iranian people, and at the same time instead of a few hundred
centrifuges, now we have 18,000. so nobody has benefited from this pattern of relations that we've had over the last eight years. there is a need for change, and i hope everybody realizes that we need to change that process, put an end to something that was a lose-lose situation and hopefully begin something that would be the benefit of everybody. >> so why does iran need nuclear energy. you're one of the largest oil exporters in the world. you burn off as much natural gas, that is you waste as much natural gas as your entire nuclear energy program produces. this is a huge investment, and you're enriching or creating, as you said thousands of centrifuges. it does seem odd that the world's fifth largest petroleum exporter at its peak would need this massive investment in nuclear energy for peaceful electricity when you have so
many sources in oil and gas. >> well, there's several answers to your question, but in order to be brief, let me point to it. the first is at the -- it's a policy that's recommended, going through alternative sources of energy is now the major policy option from an environment perspective as well as sustainable development perspective is being suggested and promoted. it is interesting to note that in 1974, it was an american corporation, an american consulting firm, that silted to le the shah of iran, i think there are firm grounds to believe that iran can and needs
to diversity forces of energy for future generations. >> 40 countries have civilian nuclear energy. they do not enrich. >> yes. >> why do you need the capacity to enrich when most countries that use civilian nuclear energy don't. >> we did not have any intention of enriching. we owned 20% of an enrichment company in france called -- unfortunately we were not able to even get a grant of enriched uranium from them. they have pushed iran into a situation where iran had to rely on itself. now they cannot come back and try to rewrite history. iran has had to do this not out of its own choice, but out of necessity. iran is a proud nation. we believe we have the technological capability, we have the human resources, in order to stand on our own feet. and once the international
community or those have the capacity deprive us of that, we would rely on ourselves. >> why did you build underground facilities. no, you see again, according to the agreement we had with the iaea, now the international mechanisms for monitoring have changed, improved in fact, but at that time, you were supposed to inform the iaea 180 days before you introduced uranium to that facility. the facility we had, when we showed it to the iaea, not a single gram of uranium had been introduced in that facility. there had been in other places, but unfortunately they have tried to present a different portrait. in the facility, which has become the subject of so much international enthusiasm -- >> because it was hidden. >> yes, it wasn't supposed to be revealed.
we were supposed to reveal that facility 180 days before we introduced uranium to that facility. when the director general of the iaea, mr. mohammed elbaradei visited that facility in february of 2002, we had not introduced a single gram to that facility. it was a smaller facility where we had done some testing at the laboratory level. our technicians believed we did not need to inform the iaea, but it has nothing to do with that major facility. what we can do now, instead of looking back is use the iaea, with its monitoring capabilities to make sure that iran does not deviate from its program. the iaea has not been found a single evidence, and it has done more investigation in the past ten years than probably it has done in any other country. has not gotten to
a single evidence that iran has diverted its activities into non-peaceful -- we are willing to answer past questions, we are willing to take the path of confidence building and transparent ty in order to remove any doubt, because as i said, it is in our own interests to make sure the international community considers our program to be totally peaceful, and totally proliferation resistant. >> we're going to take a break. a lot more ahead on the show, including my interview with bono, but up next, back with javad zarif. we'll talk about israel and whether iran really wants to make peace with america. [knock] no one was at home, but on the kitchen table sat three insurance policies. the first had lots of coverage. the second, only a little. but the third was... just right! bear: hi! yeah, we love visitors.
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nthat's why they deserve... aer anbrake dance.. get 50% off new brake pads and shoes. last year when i spoke here at the u.n., i drew a red line. now, iran has been very careful not to cross that line, but iran is positioning itself to race across that line in the future at a time of its choosing. >> and we are back with iran's foreign minister jahvid zarif. what did you think of prime minister netanyahu's remarks at the united nations?
>> unfortunately some people find it in their interest to deceive the international community. and to conduct a policy of fearmongering. israel has been pushing the line since 1992. perhaps you can find an earlier version. i haven't. what i've been seeing is since 1992, israel has been saying, and most of it has been netanyahu himself that iran is six months away from a nuclear bomb, now, what is it, 22 years, 21 years from 1992? we still don't have a bomb. we won't have a bomb, because we don't see it in our interests. it's interesting, israel is one of the three states outside the mpt. israel has a clandestine nuclear weapons program. israel is known to have 200
warheads, at the least, nuclear warheads. and it is interesting that regime has the audacity to go around the international commune i d ty and introduce a member of the mpt in full compliance of its obligations, of become a nuclear threat. people already know it's a nuclear threat. the nuclear arsenal is a major security threat to the region and to the world. in fact several conversations and continuing in 2000, and then in 2010, they have all stressed with consensus of the international community. in fact, unanimity, that all should join the mpt, all
nonnuclear weapon states should destroy their stockpiles, and should join the npt as nonnuclear weapon states. it is interesting for him to go around making these lies, trying to basically sweep under the rug israeli practices that are the major threat to the security of the region, major violations of the most basic rights of the palestinian people, just in order to create fear. why is he worried about a deal where the international community can monitor iran's nuclear program, make sure it is never weaponized? he should welcome it. >> he quotes from rouhani's book where he says this is the strategy, he says rouhani adopted when he was negotiated, and the strategy quoting from
the book, by creating a calm environment, a calm environment by negotiating, we were able to complete the work in isvahan, a place where there's been a major reactor, a critical steppingstone in the program. he says we fool the world once, now he thinks he can fool the world again is what he says. >> i have read rouhani's book, read and that -- when we were both out of office, is that you cannot pursue a peaceful program when the entire international community has concerns and anxieties about your program. you can in fact, and this is our argument, you can in fact pursue a peaceful program, only with the cooperation of the international community, only through transparency.
this is exactly the opposite of what netanyahu is trying to portray to the world. he's been lying, he continues to lie, he's been in fact investing in creating fear and anxiety in order to pursue ultratearier motives. >> what did you think of president obama's statement >> i believe political leaders have to exercise leadership. i was rather disappointed that president obama used language that was insulting to the iranian people. i believe president obama should in fact stick to his declared intention to deal with iran on the basis of mutual respect. that's what he said in his address to the general assembly. you do not immediate with another state with mutual respect by threatening them, by
trying to intimidate them, particularly when you know that that is not useful. that is not of any utility. as i said, the iranian people react very negatively to such messages and intimidation. >> do you think this nuclear deal, if it happened, could be a step towards normalization of relations with washington? the reason i ask is, it is difficult for me to think how anti-americanism is so much at the part of the center of the regime, the death to america chants that take place every friday, the references to america as the great satan. do you want to come to terms with the country that you call the great satan? >> what i want to say is that we have a bad history. a bad history of mistrust, a history where we had a good number of activities on the part of the united states. starting from the overthrow of
the popularly elected government, to whatever happened during the iraq war, unfortunately the use of chemical weapons by iraq, and the failure of the united states to respond with the necessary enthusiasm, unfortunately, as it is doing now, to the chemical weapons and in fact there was an attempt by the united states as we have -- so there's a lot of cause for concern on the iranian side, and there may be cause for concern on the american side, so we have to move in a serious way to deal with those instances, but the most important and immediate problem that we need to face right now is the nuclear issue. >> jahvid zarif, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, fareed. lots more ahead including the world's biggest rock star. ♪ u2's bono on africa and foreign aid, but up next, what in the world? a global deal that would make it
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now for a what in the world segment. amid all of washington's discussions on syria and iran, one other issue seems to have gotten ignored. the u.s. signed an act actual international treaty last week, one with vast implications for terrorism and war around the world. the problem is, the treaty needs to be ratified by the u.s. senate. that's just not going to happen. let me explain. it is the u.n. arms trade treaty, an agreement that aims to control the $70 billion global trade of weapons. almost every major commodity is subject to some form of international regulation -- gold, oil, currencies, but there have been few controls on the flow of weaponry. countries have wanted to have an unregulated free-for-all in the weapons market. i'm not talking just about guns. the u.n. treaty covers battle
tanks, combat aircraft, attack helicopters, warships. these are all weapons that are playing a part in ongoing wars in syria and large parts of africa, as nigeria's president jonathan put it last week, these are the true weapons of mass destruction, as much as the chemical weapons used in syria, yet everyone, including rogue states, militias and terrorist groups, seem to have unfettered access to them. the key part of the u.n. treaty is that it asks signatories not to export weapons to groups or states which could use these weapons in crimes against humanity. simple enough -- don't send arms to syria or sudan or north korea. who could object to this? the united states senate. critics of the treaty, most prominently the gun lobby in washington claim that somehow the obama administration will use this treaty as a back door method to impose gun control in
the united states. so they explained the treat use would violate the second amendment and infringe upon or constitutional right to bear arms, except that this is simply factually wrong. here are the exact words from the treaty as it stands. the treaty affirms, quote, the sovereign right of any state to regulate and control conventional articles exclusively within its territory pursuant to its own legal or constitutional system, end quote. sounds pretty clear to me. the issue is not about gun control. this is about stopping dictators from acquiring tanks, missiles and attack helicopters that can kill tens of thousands of people in a day. it's about making it harder for terrorism groups to buy extremely dangerous weapons. the other broader critique is that treaties are not enforceable. but they do make it harder for
really bad guys to get guns. the arms treaty has already taken seven years to negotiate, clauses have been inserted to allay american fears. we're the world's number one exporter of arms. now, remember 154 countries voted to sign the treaty in april, only three countries voted no, syria, iran and north korea. by not ratifying, that is the company we will be keeping. we will be right back. up next, a conversation with one of the world's greatest activists and singers -- bono. here's a check of the [ woman ] we had two tiny reasons to get our adt security system. and one really big reason -- the house next door. our neighbor's house was broken into. luckily, her family wasn't there, but what if this happened here? what if our girls were home? and since we can't monitor everything 24/7, we got someone who could. adt. [ male announcer ] while some companies are new to home security, adt has been helping to save lives for over 135 years. we have more monitoring centers,
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sleep number. comfort individualized i'm fredricka whitfield with a check of our top stories. we have details of two daring raids. in libya and kenya. u.s. officials tell cnn the top al qaeda leader captured by u.s. forces in libya will be headed to new york today or tomorrow. u.s. special forces snatch abu al libi on his way to prayers this morning. right now he's being held by the u.s. military in a secure undisclosed location. he is wanted for his role in the twin bombings at the u.s.
embassies in kenya and tanzania back in 1998. in the second raid, s.e.a.l. team six stormed a house in somalia frequented by top commanders of the terror group al shabaab. a fierce fire fight broke out, and u.s. forces withdrew this weekend, not knowing if their target was dead or alive. the terror group confirms that one person was killed, but the identity has not been revealed. at the top of the hour, i'll speak with a former navy s.e.a.l. about undercover missions just like the one in somalia. i'm fredricka whitfield. "fareed zakaria gps" continues right now. >> bono does not neat an introduction but i'll give him
one anyway. they have had the highest grossing concert tour in history, won more dpram grammy than any other group, but the one-word named singer is at a passionate advocate, having founded one and also red, which brings the private sector into the fight against aids? africa. it was through these efforts that bono, lindsey graham and condi rice found themselves in a bar together in liberia. that may sound lie the beginning of a joke, but it is not. what is the story? welcome to the show. what was that moment like, you know, that meeting in the bar? >> that's funny. >> two irish guys leave a bar -- you know, i was hosting in liberia, trying to show american
taxpayers where their money has been spent, how well it's been spent or not, however the case may be. perhaps the surrealest moment was indeed in a very low-lit bar in monrovia. it's a country still in rubble after civil war, and seeing these very senior senators in authority, not age, sort of moving and grooving to the girl called sweets in this low light, and hanging out with people you wouldn't normally find them with. but, you know, they were there because they're really passionate about this stuff, and lindsey graham is an amazing advocate. we had really only one idea, our organization one. which was to work with both sides, not to be held hostage by ideology on the left, or the right. but actually to find a radical
center, not a soft center, a tough-minded center. that's been our strategy. how do you get to the right? you did it with jesse helms, you did it with lindsey graham. what is the argument you use? >> i think already your question i challenge, because it predisposes that people on the right are not prone to be moved by this. i think they are. i think people on the left are also. most people are looking for progress. this is one area that you'll get most of congress to agree on. >> but foreign aid is not popular, that part of the challenge you face and the success you this is that you made foreign aid sexy. >> sexy? thank you. i think on the left there is suspicion of foreign aid. i had a dinner a few months ago
with six four-star generals. they want to understand -- they see men and women being put in harm's way and their military and they see development as a much more secure way, or -- sorry, much more economic way of making things secure on the ground. if you like stopping fires before they start. so we've got a lot of support there. and then, you know, there's this thing -- americans are patriotic. they actually believe that the idea of america should be contagious. when you go -- they actually know their country is not just a country, that it is an idea. they don't like the waste of it all, corruption and things like that. we fight and one campaign is hard against corruption as we fight for aid. >> and you would argue and tell the american people and the world that the money spent over the last ten years has actually been very effective? >> it's remarkable.
debt cancellation, where the -- first came across each other, jubilee 2000, drop the debt campaign, 51 million -- an extra 51 million children in school on the continent of africa, largely because of the great african leadership that spend those resources that were freed up very well on those people. the conditionalities that were key to getting your debts canceled allowed finance ministers to tackle corruption. it was fantastic. the united states is so far out in front. you deal with syria, iraq, all the quagmires. well, guess what, the united states has their taxpayers here in this country pay for -- 9.7, 10 million people owe their lives to the u.s., left and right, george bush started it, president obama is finishing it.
this virus, the greatest health crisis is on the run because of the american leadership. that's important. >> i think the way you phrase that is important, because we do think about how do we stop people from dying in syria or in sudan or in the congo. those are real and important struggles, but the flip side of that is, but with really minimal effort, you can actually save lots of people's lives. it's almost a certain fact if you spend a certain amount of money and effort and do it wisely, you'll save a lot of people's lives. >> less than half of half of 1% of the gdp of the united states achieves all this. it's about as good -- it's a great value for money and such good news. we failed in telling the american people of what they have achieved around the world.
that's why i'm here. coming up next, more of my conversation with bono, to give us his take on the world leaders he's met. george w. bush, shinzo abe, and i'll ask him about his new career as a mimic. >> i thought it was a member of his own road crew. siness. so we provide it services you can rely on. with centurylink as your trusted it partner, you'll experience reliable uptime for the network and services you depend on. multi-layered security solutions keep your information safe, and secure. and responsive dedicated support meets your needs, and eases your mind. centurylink. your link to what's next.
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u2's bonoed ed nnot only l life king size. he begins with getting the world's most powerful people to sit up and listen. more of my conversation with bono. when you are meeting with somebody like the japanese prime minister, what is that meeting like? does he treat you like a rock star? an anti-poverty activist, some mixture of both? does he ask you stuff about music? >> they look at me often like an obscure potted plant, but after a while, that is quickly
forgotten, usually as i don't leave the office, and then relationships, i've met before, we have a relationship going back. i do remember meeting with another japanese head of state. you could feel his staff kind of nodding off during the meeting. he was being polite. so i just said the world "china" because, of course, one of the great faux pas of this century would be if the united states or japan or europe were to cede influence on the continent of africa to china.
you know, and i'm excited to meet them and they're doing some incredible work in africa, but we need to talk with them about some of what they're doing, because we think, particularly in the mining area and resources, that we all, chinese, european, and u.s. companies -- need to now going forward adopt a higher standard in the way we treat developing economies. >> one of your big new causes has been anticorruption, and specifically you've targeted companies like exxon, chevron, american petroleum institute that's funded by them. explain why? what is going on there? what do you want to stop? >> exxon and chevron do some very good work on malaria and hiv/aids, but they are part of the api. the api has sued the s.e.c. to
top new legislation passed by congress, that forces oil, gas, all the extracted industries, to publish what they paid for those rights in developing the world. because corruption is -- corruption is complex. if you don't publish what you pay, to a state for their rights, then the people who control that state can issue a different number. you pay $4 billion for the mining rights and you put in $3.8 billion. that is what corruption looks like. we always talk about corruption south of the equator which is a real problem. but this is north. and it is not good. it is very 20th century. the oil business. that is just the way things are, kid. no more. there is a transparency
revolution happening and it is a great thing. all over the continent of afr a africa, there are young smart leaders, they are tech savvy, they are online. even 2 g phones they are checking in and holding their governments to account. >> you have dealt with so many leaders who has impressed you the most? >> the great man nelson mandela, i have been working with him since i was 18. desmond tutu. he was my other boss i so admire him. even president clinton, i was trying to cover for him. he was offer doing some stuff.
he lost his notes. cheryl sandberg from facebook said you have to do something. performers don't like lulls. i went up and pretended to be him. i thought it was a member of his own road crew. >> what did you think of his immation of you? >> i'm irish and we can imitate anybody. >> he's a better president. but i wanted to say one of the reasons why i admire him so he is virtually a deigty in ireland. as an irish person, i love in a country now that is largely peaceful. i grew up in the 1970s and it
was horrible. mostly in the north, but sometimes in the south. we owe bill clinton, he's staying up late at night and worrying about other people's safety. >> do you imitate other people? >> i do not. bono, pleasure to have you on >> always. i love this program. the one and only bono. up next, it seems these days there is an app for every thing.
has the largest percentage of federal workers? a, b, c or d? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. this week's book of the week is malcomb gladwell's latest. it is compulsively readable. a see rseries of stories. he has his critics and he will be on the show to argue with them in a few weeks. that is an extraordinary achievement. now for the last look. in the last century wartime warning systems were pretty low tech. from air raid sirens to emergency broadcast systems. but your smartphone may be your
best warning tool. as sectarian violence goes across the borders. the military created laf shield which allows them to highlight dangers. they can swipe and issue an sos to the army. another app that utilizing outsourcing was downloaded 100,000 times in just one year. and the goal of way to safety is to be able to locate a gunman which will record fgunfire and now we need an app to get the world's warring