tv U.S. Senate CSPAN January 20, 2011 12:00pm-4:59pm EST
information followed by questions and answers. congresswoman that giffords continues to do well we're pleased with her progression with her time period. every day we still see improvement and that's very enlightening for us because improvement in the first couple of weeks after injury is very significant and somewhat prognostic how she's going to do in the future. we're doing the usual routines things with her which includes speech therapy as well as very aggressive physical therapy. and she continues to participate and cooperate in that and make improvements on a daily basis so we're very happy. doctor? >> so as dr. rhee said, the congresswoman continues to do very well neurologically. you've heard everything out there like, for example, she is beginning to stand with assistance. she's scrolling through an ipad. these are all fantastic advancements forward. they do indicate higher cognitive function but i do want to caution everyone that she has a long road ahead of her and
rehabilitation would be very important. we started that process here. we hope to continue that process to -- at the next facility where she visits. from a neurological point of view we did some procedures this week. i don't want to go into great detail but one is a revision of her wounds but much of it is housekeeping. it's getting her to a position where she can graduate from this hospital. and on that, i'll pass it on to her husband. >> secret notes. good morning, everybody. the last 12 days have been extraordinarily difficult for myself, my family, but not only us. i think it's been very difficult for the city of tucson, southern arizona and our country.
i don't think we're ever going to fully understand the why and the how and, you know, the reason for what happened on the 8th of january. you know, it's a loss of innocent life. the injury of a dozen people. you know, the death of a 9-year-old girl, a federal judge and the serious traumatic injury to my wife, gabrielle. so we'll never fully understand that. you know, emotionally, this has been a challenge for all of us. but what this has done it has certainly shown me and i think not only our country but the entire world what tucson is all about. you know, it showed them a different side of tucson, and i
think all americans are very proud of what they've seen. and i know my wife, gabrielle, would be very proud of how this community has responded to this tragic situation. the memorials outside of this hospital in front of the safeway, in front of gabby's office has really been a testament to what this community is all about. the love and support that we've received is a bit overwhelming. it's actually a bit difficult to even keep up with. but we are very, very appreciative and i want to apologize for all those folks that have done so much for us that we haven't recognized yet. i know one of the first things gabby is going to want to do as soon as she's able to is start writing thank you notes. and i've already reminded her of
that. [laughter] >> i think -- you know, as gabby moves into the next phase of her recovery, you know, she's going to need to be -- continue to be strong, and she will really appreciate the support of this community. you know, this is her home. this is the place she loves. the people she represents. we looked at a lot of places to move her to. we considered rehab facilities in new york, in arizona, in chicago, in new jersey, washington, d.c. and also in houston. one of the best rehab hospitals in the nation and one of the closest of the best is in the city of houston. and that's the tier memorial herman rehab hospital.
so it took a while to decide where to send her. and there were many factors that went into that. some of those other places could certainly provide her excellent care and we did consider them all. tier has been one of the -- tier memorial herman has been one of the top ranked rehab hospitals in the country for 21 years. it's got an outstanding world class reputation. the doctors and nurses there are among the best at treating penetrating head injuries like gabby has been dealing with. so i want my wife to get the best possible care and i'm convinced that she can get that at memorial herman. it's also one of the closest top ranked places to tucson but what really is a critical factor in this decision is the -- is the fact that it's going to let me be there by her side as much as
possible. every single day. and i don't know how long this whole process is going to take. but if i want to at some point, you know, address the situation with our children, who are teenaged girls going to school every day and also be able to at some point consider the possibility of returning to work, it makes most sense that she is in memorial herman in houston, texas. so i'm extremelily hopeful that gabby is going to make a full recovery. i've told her that. she recognizes it. she's a strong person, a fighter. i mean, she is a fighter like, you know, nobody else that i know. so i am extremely confident that she's going to be back here and back at work soon. i've been telling the hospital staff that they should expect to see her walking through these
halls and into the icu within a couple months. i'm sure of that. so she will be back. one of the reasons she's going to be back is because of the excellent care she's received here from dr. peter rhee and michael lamole and the other trauma surgeons and the eye care and at umc she has received nothing less than perfect care. and that's the reason she's in the situation she is in now with the fact that within two weeks of this very serious injury is able to move on to the next phase. i also want to thank her nurses, the icu nurses that have attended to her around-the-clock. tracy colbert, amanda burner, joshua coleman, briana, joshilyn
and angelique have been by her side every step of the way. i also have very strong feelings for the support we've received from the pima county sheriff's department and the tucson police want, there have been volunteer tucson police officers in the icu around-the-clock since we arrived. you know, making sure everything goes as planned and that we don't have any other issues to deal with. the capitol police have been there. i want to thank the ceo of icu kevin burns and the university of arizona president shelton who i've known for years -- i know each of them are deeply committed to this community, their kindness and generosity of them and their teams have been
just phenomenal. but really the bottom line is, i want to thank the people at tucson for their support that they provided for me, my wife's staff, our family over the last two weeks is, you know, beyond what i would have expected, you know, of anybody. so we are deeply and gratefully -- you know, thankful for that. so i'd like to take a couple of questions if anybody -- if anybody has them and i think pia is going to do that, but right here, right in the front, ma'am. [inaudible] >> yes. so we're going to move her tomorrow. we're going through the planning process right now. how exactly we're going to do that. and so we're still in the, you know, first phases of putting that into place. but by the time we move her, we're going to have a good plan.
right over here. >> has she spoken yet? >> so that's a good question. i -- i feel she's made some attempts. she has a tracheostomy and i also feel that she, you know, intellectually she knows that's there and she understands what that means. >> but, you know, she -- in my mind she's made some attempts. >> does that concern you or is that normal -- >> you know, this whole thing concerns me from the time i got the first call, you know, until the time that she -- you know, till she makes the full recovery, yeah, i've got -- i certainly have a lot of concern. >> do you know yet who will be leading the team in houston in terms of her doctors there? >> the trauma doctor, dr. john holcomb and the neurosurgeon, dr. brian ho. >> can you talk a little bit more about what you mean that you know that she knows that
you're there and you know she knows what's going on? >> she will smile at me. she will do some -- a couple of things that she will only do around me, like pat me in the face. she used to do that before. you know, just very gently. i can just look in her eyes and tell. she's well aware of who's around her. just, you know -- just very aware of the situation. >> can you tell us exactly from the moment you experienced when she could stand up -- [inaudible] >> and when she was able to look out the window? >> yeah, so, you know, i think standing and steps what the general public or even myself would think that means. and what physical therapists -- you know, what the clinical definition of those two things, i think, they're a little bit different. you know, she can -- she can
bear her own weight, which is a big step. i think, you know, just speaking for the doctors here, i think she's made a remarkable recovery at this point. [inaudible] >> you mentioned a back rub and is there one particular -- [inaudible] >> many every day. every time i interact with her, there's something quite inspiring. so, you know, it's just stuff like that that she does over and over again. i imagine the next step is here. she will be -- she will be walking, talking and in two months you'll see her walking through the front door of this building. thank you. >> doctors at the university of arizona medical center offering remarks on congresswoman
giffords condition, her husband, shuttle astronaut mark kelly saying she will be at memorial h hermann rehabilitation hospital in houston. >> "washington journ >> and on your screen right now is dr. thomas frieden joining us live from atlanta. is frieden is a medical thomasrieden.physician who has spent much of his medical career in public health.ent in 2090 was named the director
of the centers for disease control and prevention and thanks for being with us this morning guest: it is my pleasure. host: the study we are going to talk about, health inequality in the indebted states, is something that very much interested you. what was your goal in producing this study? guest: inequalities are bad for individual groups, communities, and the country. take for example, measles. years ago we had a lot of measles in the u.s.. not only did that hurt african- americans, but it endangered everyone, in the same way we have an inequality in any health status, it brings our overall health status down and hurts individual groups. we need to understand better and understand all we could do about it. host: what were the major
chemical wastes from your findings? guest: there are a number of -- , what were the major takeaways from your findings? guest: there are major inequalities. in some areas, there is an unexpected disparity. binge drinking, drinking five or more drinks at one sitting for men, and four or more for women, is much more common of people -- for people of higher social status. i do not think it would realize that. many to follow along the lines we would expect, although not always in the ways we would expect. probably the most important single health any quality insofar as it is the one that causes the most early death is
inequality in heart disease. her disease and stroke are the leading single cause in the life expectancy between whites and african-americans in this country. host: we have been thinking about health care insurance and coverage for people. do your findings point to any savings for the nation if we end up tackling some of these issues? guest: is quite striking. are collaborators from another agency found that if the rate of what are called preventable hospitalizations, those that should not happen if you have good primary-care, if that rate were the same in all communities as is in a well off communities, there would be nearly 1 million fewer hospitalizations, which would prevent nearly $7 billion a year. host: i would like to give more
particulars. we would like to invite our audience to join the discussion about disparities in health, and as a policy issue. here are some of the findings from the study. white men are two or three times likely to die in car crashes. men of all ages are four times more likely to die by suicide than women. drug-induced deaths are highest among whites. hypertension, which could lead to stroke and heart disease are more prevalent among african- americans. birth rates for african- americans and hispanics are two to three times higher than white females. the doctor just mentioned the binge drinking. the higher income, the more likely you are to binge drink, which means 70% of college graduates are more likely to --
17% of college graduates are more likely to binge drink. you found out what? if -- did you find out why? guest: we have ideas, but we do not have to prove. people understand smoking is really bad for you. it remains the leading cause of death in this country. alcohol is also one of the leading underlying causes of death, which causes all broad range of problems. -- a broad range of problems. that does not recognize to the same extent. one or two drinks might be healthy, but once you get into the four, or five range, you are in a level of drinking where you are more likely to have a car crash, or likely to get into
problems with whatever disease or infections. alcohol causes of broad range of health and social problems. it is not always recognize how serious those problems may be. host: let me move to the other key finding -- the disparity between black americans and other groups in society on hard related issue. would you know about causality there? guest: for reasons no one is certain of, african-americans are about 50% more likely to have high blood pressure which is a leading cause of heart disease and stroke. starting off, you have a higher rate of a serious condition. 42% of the african-american adults have high blood pressure, as opposed to 28% of white americans. if we do not do a great job of controlling high blood pressure or high cholesterol. many people with a condition do not have been under control. he really need to get the number down.
doing so will be important in preventing or reducing the risk of a heart attack or a stroke. i think there are far too many young people who have had a heart attack or stroke and had been seriously disabled by heart disease or high blood pressure. these are things and simple, relatively low-cost medications can control, but you need to do something to stop them. if the doctor recommends an aspirin a day, take an aspirin a day. host: our question comes from twitter. why should the nation but worry about inequalities are arising from individuals choices? guest: we want to support personal responsibility. it is important that not only individuals to increase the stability for their health, but that governments and communities make it easier for people to do
what is healthy. tobacco advertising is everywhere. it is much harder for someone to not smoke or to quit. there are things we could do that make it easier for people to lead healthier and longer lives. some of those things are things that help everyone. a great example of that is the vaccines for children program. when it was started, there were very large inequalities between poor and better off people, and everyone is offered as a result. now, there are almost no differences in the rate of vaccinations. everyone benefits. other programs need to be targeted to specific communities. part of that is how we could spend money most responsibly. if we have one problem effecting one group, it makes most sense
to address that problem with our resources. it will get us the most benefit for the dollar. host: bill, detroit, independent. go ahead. caller: the republicans are trying to repeal this bill. if they repealed the bell, and it gets through the senate, it will be vetoed by president obama. the whole health-care debate is moved. it is a waste of time. we need jobs in this country. host: is the cdc involved in the debate over health care law? guest: we have some key roles. one is to monitor how we are doing in preventing death and infection. that could save a lot of money.
second, as a prevention agency, we have all role in helping communities have longer and healthier lives. if it is important to reduce the amount of money it costs to take care of someone who has a heart attack or a stroke. it is even better if we could prevented in the first place. host: next is a republican, might, in cincinnati -- might, in cincinnati. caller: i think money savings from preventative care of all kinds is being underestimated. generally speaking, it is a lot less expensive to prevent an issue. also, i think that the social demographics of some of the studies did not take into account that unfortunately, healthy living is expensive. so is -- so, it is the chicken and the egg situation.
think about of the tobacco settlement money had all been dedicated to providing quit smoking devices, of research, and stuff, at no cost -- in other words, if they had dedicated the money from the tobacco companies to making things like it not correct free, i think they would have been -- nicorrette free, i think that what of the more effective. numbers did not live. liars' use # -- numbers. i think prevention is critical. a lot of the things our behavior-based. you couldn't hear what the appropriate and healthy behavior, but you may not -- you could want the appropriate and
healthy behavior, but you may not be able to afford it. guest: prevention is the best body in the health sector. prevention, as i said earlier, preventing a heart attack is better than taking care of it. what we are seeing in some health plans and is being quite effected is a substantial reduction in the number of people coming in for care, coming in for a heart attack or a stroke. that is success. that is what we want to see. prevention and can be expensive. that is one of the things cdc is doing to make it easier for people to do the healthy thing, whether it is a wall -- walking to school or work, or having fruits and vegetables available -- it is really hard to eat healthy if you do not have a
place to buy fruits and vegetables. these are all areas where it is really quite important to change it and support personal responsibility so that is easier to do the healthy thing. tobacco remains of our leading be done to the cause of illness and death in this country. unfortunately, the decrease in tobacco use have stalled, although we have made tremendous progress of the last few decades. unfortunately, much of the master settlement agreement has not been spent on tobacco control. in the affordable care act, tobacco cessation assistance is provided free of charge for individuals. there are very important preventive aspects of the affordable care act. host: the first lady is set to announce that wal-mart is going
to make efforts to lower the fat and sugar content of the food it sells under its own name and lower the prices of vegetables and fruits and open more stores in under-served communities. what is the role of private industry interesting -- in addressing some of the issues you studied? a -- guest: private interested -- private industry could be extremely important. to provide healthier food at the same cost is tremendously important. we know from the tobacco experience that increasing the price of tobacco is the single most effective way of reducing use. if we could make healthier food cheaper, that will make a huge difference. host: this you were on twitter --
guest: we consume far too much sweet food and salty food. the obesity epidemic has gotten so bad, so fast. adult obesity has doubled in a generation, and childhood obesity has tripled. that is why a initiatives are so important. it gives everyone something they could do. individuals, state governments, the federal government, workplaces, schools -- this is a big problem, and there is a lot we can do about it. he be more fruits and vegetables, drinking more 0 calorie liquids like water. we got into this epidemic over many years, and it will not be reversed overnight, but i am confident that as a society we can reverse it.
tell you more about dr. thomas frieden. he completed infectious disease treatment at yale. he began his career as an intelligence service officer in the new york city health department. in 1992 to 1996, he led the program that rapidly reduce tuberculosis. some of his background before coming to lead cdc. our next call is from dallas, lesley, and the democrats line. caller: i am a colander graduate. intermission we learned about food we eatcessed has a definite correlation to pop -- poverty and people that
cannot afford to purchase healthier food. with the new health-care bill, it is not taken into consideration how many sick people and the different diseases like diabetes and high blood pressure because of the sodium and sugar in the food. if it is really about health, there should be something that comes from the ground war, which is what we eat, -- groundworks, which is what we eat, and the that chd things cancer. >> you can see "washington journal" every morning at seven eastern on c-span. chinese president hu jintao visits the washington comes to a close today. for this gathering of businessmen here in washington, former secretary of state henry kissinger expected to introduce the chinese president. this is live coverage on c-span2. >> thank you. welcome. i am john frisby, president of
u.s.-china business council. i have one housekeeping item. you all have headphones to listen to the translation in front of you. if for some reason it's not reason -- working, raise your hand and we will swap it out. join me in welcoming the chairman and chief executive officer of the coca-cola company. [applause] >> good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. welcome to our luncheon in honor of the president of the people's republic of china, the honorable hu jintao, and our distinguished guests from the china delegati delegation. our two cohosts today, the u.s.-china business council, and the national committee on u.s.-china relations are delighted and are honored that you could join us on this
historic occasion, mr. president. we all recognize that the u.s.-china relationship grows more important every single day. and just the last few months, we have witnessed an unprecedented level of high exchanges. last september, premier visited new york and many of you probably recall that our two organizations again, hosted a dinner for him during that visit. this past december, vice premier visited washington, d.c.. and just last week defense secretary gates was in beijing. and now, president hu is making this state visit to our nation's capital as well as to chicago. yesterday i had the privilege of attending a special and historic meeting with president hu,
president obama and with business and government leaders from both our countries. we had a very productive discussion about the unique and powerful role that businesses in china and america can play in creating a greater understanding between our nations, promoting innovation as well as investment, and generating jobs and opportunities for american and chinese communities. there's no question that china is american businesses can and should play an increasing role in building bridges of understanding between our two nations. no force has ever played as prominent a role in fostering greater prosperity, greater harmony, and greater goodwill among nations than the positives and enduring force of business and commerce. for those of us who are working
to promote stronger ties between our two nations, the rise of these and other dialogs is a very positive trend in d. so while differences and challenges do exist, this increase in dialogue represents a sincere desire to build stronger u.s.-china relations. today, and also in the decades ahead, u.s.-china relations, relationship will be the most important bilateral relationship. indeed, strengthening that relationship is better for china, better for the united states, and it is better for the world. so as we come together, understand each other, and find more common ground, the less we are likely to raise obstacles to trade, to innovation, to investment, and to economic growth. an important example is an agreement signed yesterday between the china council for promotion of international trade
tcp/ip, and the u.s.-china business council that actually formalizes a series of seminars that provide expert training on how to invest in the united states to chinese businesses. in the years ahead, we will become more, not less dependent on each other for our own economic success. it is our strongly held belief that over the long run, innovation and economic growth are the most -- are most effectively achieved by open trade in dialogue. this will be equally true for all other aspects of our relationship as well. and for these reasons we are so extremely pleased to welcome president hu, and to hear in just a few minutes, his policy speech on u.s.-china relations. in honor of this very historic
moment, i would like to propose, i would like to propose a toast to president hu, and also to his esteemed delegation. gentlemen, to the future, great future of china, the great future of the united states, and to the continued health of strong u.s. relations. now, i would like to introduce a gentleman and a friend who plays a critical role in shaping help the u.s. relations with china. secretary of commerce gary locke has graciously agreed to make remarks on the half of obama administration. secretary locke as you know just last month co-chairs the successful jcct, and i should note that two other leaders of
that important dialogue are also here today with us, secretary locke co-chair, u.s. trade representative ron kirk, and, of course, well known to all of us in this room, china's vice premier. i applaud and i thank all three of you for the important work. [applause] >> secretary locke is a strong supporter of balance and constructed u.s.-china commercial relations. we are really fortunate to have him representing our commercial interest here, and around the globe and fortunate to hear his remarks today. ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming secretary of commerce, gary locke. [applause] >> thank you very much for the
introduction and i'm very, very honored and very pleased to be here representing president obama and his administration, and to see so many familiar faces who have helped make the relationship between the united states and china the critically important one that it is today. i also know that there will be an introduction of some of our, and speakers who have contributed much to u.s.-china relations over the years. but i would like to acknowledge some of them who were in the audience today, and ask them to all stand. but we have witnessed some of the former ambassadors to china from the united states who contribute so much to this incredible relationship. and ambassador sasser, and, of course, our current ambassador hartman. please stand up and be recognized. thank you. they are there are any audience, thank you very much. thanks for your great work. and also trained representatives over the past several years that have really done so much to
ensure that opening up markets, access on behalf of u.s. companies, of course you'll be hearing from her shortly, but u.s. trade representative carla hills, susan schwab, mickey cantor who is also commerce secretary, and also ron kirk. please stand and be acknowledged as well. thank you very much. [applause] >> and, of course, cabinet members, i see former secretary of defense bill cohen and secretary of treasury robert rubin any audience. please stand up, and thank you for your incredible contribution to the u.s.-china relationship. [applause] >> on behalf of president obama, ambassador kirk, and ahead of the u.s. trade development agency, we welcome our guest of honor, chinese president hu jintao, whose leadership has raised the standard of living in china and help transform it into a global economic power. one that is playing a critical
role in nursing the world economy back to health. it goes without saying that president hu has also been in a porton partner in the developing relationship between china and the united states. over the years i've had the privilege of taking many trips to china, started more than 20 years ago. and each time that i visit china, i am awed by how fast china has grown since the previous visit. and under the leadership of president hu and his predecessors and his colleagues in the chinese government, during the last 30 years we have seen china lift hundreds of millions of its people out of poverty and into the ranks of a growing middle class. and this stands as one of the most impressive accomplishments of the modern era, and where the most impressive accomplishments in chinese history. indeed spanning thousands of years, china has contributed so much to world civilization, and our countless inventions and
innovations including the abacus and the seismograph, silk and cast iron, the compass, the clock, gunpowder and fireworks, paper and the printing press, acupuncture and herbal medicine. and china has also the tremendous cultural contributions to humanity from the arts and architecture, philosophy and religion. so it's no surprise that china has historically been one of the world great trading nations, as one end of the silk road. china was a destination for people, goods, and ideas for centuries. long before its current rise to global prominence. as china has grow these past 30 years it's important to the united states and the global economy has grown to the point where today, china and united states have perhaps the most important bilateral trading relationship in the entire world. and ensure that this relationship continues to be defined by cooperation, it is in
the interest of all of our people. the united states and china must lead the way together in helping the world emerge from one of the worst economic crises in generations. and as we face the great global challenges of our age, poverty reduction, climate change, environmental stewardship, and many others, both nations have a critical role to play. each of these problems is very different, but we do know that the solutions to many of them will require a degree of technological innovation that will challenge our businesses and our innovators as never before. and that's why it's important that both china and the united states maintain our commitment to a global trading system based on openness and respect for the rule of law. only then will capital, new ideas and products flow freely across our borders. we must do everything we can to ensure that our best minds,
whether they live in beijing or chicago or san francisco, are able to cooperate and innovate together. whereas the past few decades could be characterized largely by china making and united states consumers taking, we now have a chance to build a more equitable commercial partnership, relationship with him power to chinese consumers buying more goods and services from u.s. companies, more chinese companies investing in the united states, and chinese and american innovators working side-by-side to develop breakthrough technologies in sectors ranging from energy to biotechnology. as china adopts a more open environment for trade and investment and improves the protection and enforcement of intellectual property laws, we will see a more balanced commercial relationship between the united states and china. the united states welcomes president hu jintao's efforts to
further open china to the global economy, and we look forward working together toward a more mutually beneficial trading relationship between the united states and china in the months and years to come. president hu come is a great honor for the american people to host you here and have you here in america. we welcome you. we hope that your visit has been productive and enjoyable. and after you leave chicago, we hope that your entire visit will be one of great memories and great progress. now i would like to turn the podium over to ambassador carla hills, chair of the national committee on u.s.-china relations, a person who is a great friend of improved relations between our two great nations. ambassador hill. [applause] >> thank you, secretary locke. the national committee on u.s.-china relations is these
very strongly that collaboration between our two nations is good for the american people, good for the chinese people, and, indeed, very good for the world community. so we applaud secretary locke's comments, and we very much appreciate his presence here today. and it gives me enormous pleasure to call upon a dear friend, our 56 secretary of state who has played a dominant role in u.s. foreign policy for more than six decades. beginning with his service in the united states army during world war ii, to his contributions as national security advisor, and secretary of state, to presidents nixon and ford, henry kissinger has devoted his life to service to his country and the search for global peace.
few diplomats have had such an impact on foreign affairs. he pioneered the policy of détente, and negotiate a cease-fire in vietnam and negotiated the paris peace accords. is unannounced trip to beijing in 1971 play the groundwork for the sean high communicate, paving the way for the reestablishment of diplomatic relationships between the united states and china. he is the recipient of a very long list of prestigious awards, including the prestigious presidential medal of freedom, our nation's highest award to a civilian. through his prolific writings and global travels, he continues to influence thinking on critical foreign policy issues.
please join me in welcoming to the podium a very special american, and a dear friend, doctor henry kissinger, we'll introduce our guest of honor, the president of the people's republic of china, hu jintao. henry. .ne[applause] >> mr. president, distinguished guests, before i say anything else, let me congratulate president hu jintao on his successful summit in washington. which i am sure it will be marked as a turning point that starts a cooperative dimension
in dealing with the important issues that are before us. when we finished the communiqué announcing my secret visit, premier cho turned to me and said, this will shake the world. and, indeed, the opening of relations between china and the united states, after so many years of separation, did shake the world. since then, eight american presidents, for generations of chinese leaders, have worked on this relationship.
and what i think of the chinese leaders, from chairman mao, unified the country, to deng xiaoping who started the reform and opening, to others who implemented those concepts in a difficult period, and then to president hu jintao, who developed and built on the achievements of the predecessors, and came into a situation where both inside china and i relations of china, to report a contribution, to
call for harmony and cooperation and friendship. and at this period, let's call for a harmonious world. and in close cooperation with the united states, could mean the united states and china. if our two countries work together, most of the problems that are before us will find a creative solution. and if they don't, then there is no possibility for one side or the other achieving a success
over the other. so, therefore, we can call this summit a success, not because it has solved every problem, but it's because it has shown the way by which the problems can and will be solved. and the manner in which our two presidents have worked together. and the arrangements they have set up indicates a direction, and an obligation to all of their associates to work creatively. this is a great achievement. and it makes us proud to be in this room.
having now, looking back 40 years of association, to me and to many of the americans here, china is not a foreign country. china is a country of the friends we see sitting around these tables. with whom we have shared many experiences, in which create an imperative within us to continue on this direction. i began by saying that premier zhou said we had done something to shake the world. this generation has a different task. this generation, we came together in a period, this
generation lives in the period of transition. and in this period of transiti transition, we can say that we are working to build the world, not to shake it. and it's in that spirit that we think the chinese, the participants here, and i would like to introduce president hu jintao, who has contributed so much to making this world, this cooperation possible, and for the visions he is given to society, and to all of us. [applause] [applause]
>> translator: dr. henry kissinger, secretary gary locke, secretary ray lahood, ambassador ron kirk, ambassador jon huntsman, chair of the u.s.-china business council, ambassador carla hills, chair of the national committee on u.s.-china relations, ladies and gentlemen, dear friends, i wish to begin i thinking the u.s.-china business council, the national committee on u.s.-china relations, and other organizations for hosting this welcoming luncheon. i'm delighted to have this opportunity to meet friends old, to renew friendships, and plans for the future. i would like to withstand cordial greetings and best wishes to you and to people from
various sectors of the united states who have long had for and supported the growth of china-u.s. relations. on this day, 74 years ago, president franklin roosevelt made his inaugural speech, the road of injuring progress. he called on the american people who were coming out of the depression to unite as one and to redouble their efforts to forge ahead along the road of injuring progress. today, the trigger that caused by the international financial crisis is receding and the world economy is returning to growth. yes, there still exists many and certainty -- uncertainty, making
the world acknowledge recovery a long process. all countries in the world, including china and the united states, want to fully emerge from the crisis as soon as possible, and achieve a full recovery of the world economy. in the face of the international situation, and the risks and challenges, the people of our two countries should step up cooperation and work with people across the world to share opportunities, meet challenges, and build a better future for mankind. ladies and gentlemen, 32 years ago mr. deng xiaoping, chief architect of china's reform and
opening up, played a historic visit to the united states. he said during the visit that the pacific ocean should no longer be an obstacle that set us apart, rather it should be a bond that links us together. history has proved the correctness of this important statement. in the first decade of the century, china and the united states worked together and made steady progress in building a positive cooperative and a comprehensive relationship for the 21st century. china-u.s. relations has reached unprecedented breadth and depth. given the ever-changing circumstances in the world and
in our respective countries, what should we do to take a sound and steady china-u.s. relationship into the new decade? to answer this question, one must first and foremost identify the basis for the development of china-u.s. relations. it is sad to say our two countries have never enjoyed such broad common interests, and have shouldered such important responsibilities as we do today. both china and unite states are committed to upholding world peace and stability, and reformed the international system. china is the largest developing country by the united states, the largest developed one. the steady growth of our relations itself is a major contributor ship to world peace
and stability. our two countries have engaged in coordination and cooperation on a range of regional hotspot issues, and maintained close communications and coordination in both the traditional and nontraditional security field. together we push method -- major progress on climate change and nonproliferation, and have facilitated positive outcomes at the g20 summits, and other meetings. we have joined the rest of the international community in a common effort to safeguard over our stability in international order, and advance the reform and development of the international system. both china and the united states are committed to the development and prosperity of the asia-pacific region. the asia-pacific region is where
>> translator: over the past ten years politics in independencive chinese products saved american consumers over $600 billion u.s.. companies in china have become the biggest in their global operations. even in 2008 and 2009 when the international financial crisis was most severe, over 70 #% of american companies in china remained profitable. today, some 3 million tourists travel between the two countries every year. the friendly exchanging between the chinese-american people have contributed not only to their own cultural programs, but also to the exchanges and the mutual
learning between the eastern and the western civilizations, and they have given a strong boost to the overall progress of human civilization. looking ahead, we are fully confident about the prospects of china-u.s. relations. here, i would like to propose that we take the following steps to balance the sound and static path of our relations. first, bear in mind the overall interest take a long term perspective and make active efforts to balance the cooperative partnership. china-u.s. relationships is not one in which one side gain means the other side's loss. rather, it should be a relationship in which the two sides respect each other and endeavor to deepen strategic mutual trust. it should be a relationship that
highlights common interests and stronger cooperation. the two sides that bill and handle the bilateral relationship from a global perspective and in keeping with the trends of the times. we should keep our relations on the path of equality, mutual respect, mutual trust, mutual benefit, and a common development, and to do that we should increase high level exchanges, deepen and expand communications at all levels, better appreciate each other's strategic intentions and development path and further increase mutual trust and build consensus. second, seize opportunities and take innovative steps to build a new path of mutual men official
economic cooperation. both china and the united states have economic restructuring, increasing inputs in environmental protection, new energy, and a technology innovation and promoting the development of health, education, and other social programs. all this presents new opportunities for us to foster new areas of economic cooperation. china wants to work with the united states to forge a framework both broader and a stronger economic cooperation. we can carry out fiscal, financial, and business cooperation on the larger scale, expand exchanges in cooperation, energy, the environment, agriculture, health, and other fields and broaden cooperations
in new areas situation aviation -- such as aviation, smart infrastructure, and power grids. in this way, we will make our business ties even stronger and create more jobs for our people. third, intensify communication and deepen coordination and cooperation in addressing global challenges and international and regional hot spot issues. china and the united states should perceive global cooperation as partners to fulfill common responsibilities and meet common challenges. we should have coordination on global issues such as the iran negotiations, climate change,
energy resources, and public health security in bilateral and multilateral terminals. maintain dialogue and exchanges in the security of the region and hot spot issues and go together to have a more inclusive, just, and better managed system. we should stay committed to promoting peace, stability, and prosperity in the asia-pacific region, engage in open and inclusive regions, and turn the asia-pacific into an important region where china and the united states work closely together on the basis of mutual respect. fourth, deepen friendships, be forward looking, and vigorously promote exchanges between
various sectors of our two countries. the development of u.s.-china relations in finer analysis hinges on broad support and active involvement of people in all walks of life from the two countries. we should draw up a good plan for our exchanges in cooperation, culture, education, science and technology, and other fields and encourage more dialogue and exchanges between the legislatures, local authorities, business communities, institutions, media organizations, and other sectors so that more and more people will become supporters of advantager u.s.-china relations and get actively involved in this worthy cause. we need to put in extra efforts in these exchanges between our young people and carry out young form of youth exchange to ensure that the younger generation carry forward china-u.s.
relationship. fifth, treat each other as equals and with respect and handle issues in a proper manner. a view of our relations tells us that china-u.s. relations will enjoy smooth and steady growth when the two countries handle welshes involving -- handle well involving each other's issues, otherwise we can suffer tension. taiwan and tibet issues concern china's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and they represent china's core interests. they touch upon the sentiments of the 1.3 billion chinese. we hope that the u.s. side will honor its commitment and work with us to preserve the program of our relations. china and the united states are different in history, culture, social systems, and development
level. it is only normal that we have some disagreements and frictions. we should view and handle bilateral relations from the strategic and long term perspective and with a sense of responsibility to the future. we should prevent our relations from being affected or held by any individual incident at any particular time. we should increase mutual trust, remove obstacles, and work together to build a china-u.s. cooperative partnership based on mutual respect and mutual benefit. ladies and gentlemen, the fist decade of the 21 socialst century just passed. we made remarkable improvements in the reform and the road has
notably strengenned. the chinese economy grew at an average rate of 11%, and the chinese people's livelihood marginally improved. during these ten years, china imported $687 billion of u.s. goods on average every year and contributed to more than 14 million jobs in the country and other regions. china joined the international community in an active effort to counter the international financial prices that advance the reform of the initial economic systems and promote the peaceful sentiment of international disputes and hot-spot issues. china took an active part in the international cooperation in addressing global issues and worked with countries around the world to safeguard world peace and promote common development.
despite the remarkable achievements in china's development, we are aware that china is still the largest developing country in the world. we still have a long way to go. before we can achieve our national development growth -- development holds the key to solving all the problems in china, and we must pursue scientific development that puts people first and emphasizes comprehensive coordinated and sustainable development. we need to adopt the more hole lis tick approach to development and attach great importance to ensuring and improving people's well being and promote social acty and justice. china set out the guiding principles, objectives, and
major tasks for economic and social development in the coming five years. we will continue to deepen reform and opening up, advance economics, political control, and social restructuring in an all around way, and improve the socialist market economy. we will develop socialistic democracy and build under the rule of law. we will work for vigorous development and prosperity, enhance social harmony and improve our open economy in no respects. through these efforts, we will make continuous progress in our endeavor to build a prosperous, strong, democratic, cull chully -- culturally advanced mon lis tick country. we will stick to the basic state policy of opening to the outside road and follow a win-win strategy of opening up.
we will continue to advance china's interest in the broader context of the common interests of the international community and expand and deepen the converging interests with others. we welcome the participation of other countries in china's development to share our development of opportunities, and we will explore new areas in space for opening up and contribute to the common development of the region and the road through our own development. we will remain committed to the path of peaceful development, continue to strive for a peaceful international environment to develop ourselves, and uphold and promote world peace through our own development. china stands for peace for sentiment of international disputes and hot-spot issues and
following a defense policy that is defensive in nature. we do not engage in arms race or pose a military threat to any country. china will never seek germany or pursue an expansionist policy. ladies and gentlemen, to advance the sustained, sound, and steady development of china-u.s. relations, first the fundamental interests of our two peoples. it is also conducive to world peace and development. working together hand-in-hasn't, we will build and develop a china-u.s. cooperative partnership based on mutual respect and mutual benefit. we will deliver greater benefits to the people of our two countries and the world over. thank you. [applause]
[applause] [applause] [applause] [applause] [applause] >> president hu, we thank you for those important insightful remarks. we also thank you today for your company and the company of your esteemed delegations. this has been truly very productive, and ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy lunch and enjoy the conversation. thank you. [applause]
[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> president hu wraps up his u.s. visit tomorrow leaving for chicago where mayor richard daly puts on a dinner. tomorrow he returns to china. we go live to the white house with the briefing with robert gibbs. we'll get to it when it gets underway. until then, jay on the chair and
the committee on bailouts on the foreclosure crisis. >> meet congressman jason, and we just now is chairing the subcommittee on national security and homeland defense in the house oversights and reform committee. what do you want to do with that panel? >> guest: well, there's a lot to look at. there's hundreds of millions of dollars going out the door with the war effor there'speople out there fiti to protect the country, and quite frankly, there's not enough discussion about the fact we're in a war, and so we have a duty and responsibility to not only work with the president, but be the check on the balance for the president and what could be happening in the theater of
wars. it also includes homeland security. i want to look at the tsa and what's happening at the airports. there's outspoken critics about how they conduct protection at the airport. i'm also concerned about the borders. everybody says border security is imperative, but is it happening? we just heard from the secretary they are scuttling a billion-plus dollar effort to come up withiral fnce, and ihk ve a duty to ovsight d look to what's happening at the border as well. >> host: the is this making the country more secure? >> guest: we need to look and evaluate that. i serve on judiciary and asking the gao to do a review of how the agencies work together. i mean, we have everything from the amtrak police and mta.
i don't know that they're working closely together. we have ipe who have duties and responsibilities dealing with child pornography or anything happening on the internet over our borders. we don't necessarily have the time and resources to take on that mission as well. in utah there's 29 counties. we have something like 22ipe's officers spending zero amount of time on the internet sex crimes that are happening. these are questions to ask the secretary and dive into it. >> host: we want to get to your tornado telephones quickly. they are on the screen. we have e-mail address and a twitter account to join in on the conversation this morning. there has been a great deal of discussion about the tone and direction of the committee overall with chairman having the gavel. i wonder if you can let people know in your conversations as a
subcommittee chair with the chairman, what direction do you see he's taking this committee? people are concerned about multimillion dollar investigations of the obama administrations and some descriptions. what do you expect to see from the committee? >> guest: we have a duty to be the check on the balance of the president. we're supposed to challenge the administration, but i think we also need to do it in a way that speaker boehner outlined for us. we may disagree, but we don't need to be disagreeable. we don't need to agree on the politics of personal destruction and it's not against any particular personality in the administration, but we also as the representatives of the people need to dive deep into those issues and items that will percolate up. we don't need to go on a witch hunt. there's plenty of items to look
at from the news, things investigators highlighted. we have special investigators in iraq, in afghanistan, we have a disaster mission right now with that investigator general who just recently left that postand have huge question marks the committee should be looking at. we have the t.a.r.p. up on capitol hill today. there's plenty to look at, but we shouldn't be making it personal. >> host: would you decode t.a.r.p.? >> it's the inner general for the parp program, yes. >> host: one other thing before calls. our time is short. let me use part of what you said to launch into this question. you have been in the press as one member of congress who has a concealed carry permit; is that correct? >> guest: yes. >> host: what are you thinking about congressional security in the wake of what happened in tucson? >> guest: on capitol hill,
they do a great job. there's a virtual army and great security and intelligence of what happens. the capitol is the number one world's target. at home, it's a mixed bag. i feel more comfortable at home. it's not that i live in fear or scared of people, but the reality is we have two offices. we represent close to 900,000 people, and there are a few people out there who i think deserve a little deeper up vest gages, and while the capitol hill police and sergeant of arms have done a great and wonderful job, unfortunately as we saw in tucson, a lot of people are on edge. i'm hoping as threats come in because all members of congress on both sides get threats, that we dive deeper in exploring those and particularly those who can't distinguish reality. i think those need to be taken more seriously. it's important not to overreact. i am a concealed carry permit
holder. it's a personal issue to me. i don't bring it to washington, d.c., but i have it in utah. i don't want someone to get a concealed carry permit in the wake of what happened on that saturday morning, so we have to be careful not to overreact, but take threats more seriously. >> host: what would overreaction look like? >> guest: somebody who armed their staff. there's lots of things. i also don't believe that congress should come up with new laws or rules that are special for members of congress. there were a couple of those proposals that came out a day or two after the horrific event. i don't think we necessarily need that. i'm no aocinansof n lhaes tse tes of thgs u te a deep breath, understand that this maniac is an isolated case, and let's learn from it, but let's not overreact either. >> host: how frequently do you get threats in your office that concern you?
>> guest: on a monthly basis. it's sad, but it happens on both sides of the aisle from everybody i talked to. everybody has had some degree of threat. a lot happens over the internet people sayordo this on the intern that they uld never don peon, and i happens on a regular basis. we had somebody two weeks before the shooting who showed up on the office saying they want to kill jews. i'm of jewish heritage, and i take that a little permly. you worry about that. >> host: beginning with a call from florida, frank, republican, you're on this morning. >> caller: this is my first-time call, and i thank you for taking it. on the health care issue, the decrs eustrngto sh touor tio keep 10 pages of that health care bill. they got a lot of other things in there that nobody knows anything about, and it's like
paying i'd love to get a copy of the bill or have somebody read the whole thing and anyway, my point is that i want -- i would like to see them repeal the whole thing, and go back into it and put back in parts that they want to keep, and drop out all this other garbage that's just going to increase taxes and everything else. >> host: thank you, frank. >> guest: well, i happen to agree with that man from florida. i'm from utah, but that's what we saw at least as republicans from all across the country. there are parts we like. there's parts that are good in it, but by and large, it's a bad bill. republicans, i think, i had a mandate coming back aer veer and a ty a obliti toctuall peal th bi, so ther are pts i like, but, boy, on the whole of
it? no way. we should absolutely we reel that. if there was one simple answer, it would have been done before, but i think what's offensive and maybe it's a step too far with the caller, but i don't think there's anybody who understands how the so-called obamacare is going to work. i mean, when nancy pelosi said out loud, and i'm glad she did. it was an honest moment from her when she said we have to pass it in order to find out what's in it. that was very true. there's bumper stickers about what it's supposed to do, but nobody understands how it will work. we were concerned it gave too much rule making authority to the secretary and others that nobody knew what ultimately it's going the contractors and gary tweets in the 80s when they didn't finish contracts, they
were fined, but today they take it and leave. >> guest: there is an overuse of contractors. i'm not by default in favor or opposed to contractors. there is a balance out of the there, but i think particularly if you look in the theater of war in afghanistan and iraq, there was a very good report called war lords inc done by a democrat and a republican out of arizona that lock -- looked at, for instance, the trucking companies that go in afghanistan. we look at these contracts. the question is are the trucking contracts fueling the war in afghanistan because is that money openly making its way to the taliban and empowering them to continue the fight? if you think about it, those hired as contractors actually have a financial incentives to perpetuate the war because as long as there's conflict, they are going to hire more
contractors in order to keep the shipping lanes open. it's a good bipartisan report and got into that contractor issue and something our committee will dive into. >> host: next call from michigan, tom, democrat, you're on, tom. >> caller: i'm looking out my front window right now in canada. if you want to see waste in homeland security, come up here and investigate the spending that the local people laugh about. that's all i have to say. >> host: on border security? >> caller: i guess you can call it border security. >> host: why is it wasteful? >> caller: anybody with half a brain can see all of this stuff they purchase that isn't being used. they have a parking lot full of trucks down there that are not used. there's a truck for everybody in the government down there, and there's a tremendous waste of money in that department. i can assure you of that.
all the local people talk and laugh about it. >> guest: tom, thank you and good morning there in michigan. it's something we need to look at it. it really does need to be looked at not only the southern border, but northern boersel tow llionsf lls in ts. t effective? every time we turn on the tv, you can't go a week without hearing about border violence that's spilling over into the united states of america. part of this was started in the bush administration, but when you look at what's happening with the so-called cybersecurity and all the things happening with the virtual fence, there's a lot of concern there because it doesn't work, and i don't understand after literally a decade of deep concern that's happening out there that we still aren't able to secure our borders, and then to hear what's happening in michigan, they look out their window and laughing.
that's something to look at. >> host: the congressman has a bachelor's degree in communication. he was the utah co-chairman for michael caucus' campaign while in college, and then a democrat, became a republican later, and served on chief of staff after being the communications director and campaign manager in 2003 and the incumbent gop in 2008 in the primary in this case. why did you become a republican? >> guest: i like to joke i learned to read and write. i say that with a big smile on my face. as i got serious about life, i got my degree, got married, got a job, i just found out internally that i'm just a very conservative person, and i believe i can work with anybody no matter where they are in the political spectrum, but i believe in fiscal discipline, limited government, strong stability, and a strong national
defense. those are the four pillars. as i looked at that, i recognized the republican party i think offered me a lot more. i had a opportunity as a young man to meet ronald reagan. it was impactful for me. he was in utah for two days. i was with him for two days, had conversations with him, and it was really impactful for me for a young man. i've been a republican now for a while now. >> host: ronald reagan is on the front page today, 30 years after his inauguration and his e aon ofbration isngp a congressmen rations of panel sessions and other legacies. student agency offers the piece in "usa today". brad, independent, good morning, brad, you're on. welcome to the conversation. >> caller: yes, good morning.
yes, i have a couple comments and then a question for the congressman. my first comment as far as the republicans coming into office, there's all these things about the american people. yes, the polls before the election said the american peoples didn't really like the health care bill, but the more they understand it, most americans prefer the health care bill right nowr th care law, so i want to know why don't the republicans say before the election they saved -- [inaudible] i want to know that the polls right now are showing the other way that the american people want this plan. >> host: okay, thank you. there's a new poll getting traction now. the public's evenly split 39-39 in favor of repeal or retain. >> guest: i appreciate the call and concern. it's important that any public official really be guided by principle and not be polls.
i worry that in our country we do a poll on everything, and probably too many polls. the principle for me that's concerning about health care is who is in control? i came to washington, d.c. in part because i want to shift the responsibility -- i want to shift the control, the power if you will out of washington, d.c. back to the states. i just fundamentally believe it should not be the federal government that has this one-size fits allthings in conna or utah or wherever it might be. it's how i approach the department of transportation and education. is there a role an speedometer -- responsibility for us to be involved? yes, but it's not a bureaucrat in washington, d.c. coming up with the solution, it's what's happening in utah where we are closest to the issue. the most effective deliver ere
of health care in the nation, and we should health care in the nation. we ought to be able to propel them forward at the state level. point, let's not take a gauge of nicole. it is fundamentally wrong. host: hall is utah's economy? -- how is utah's economy? guest: we have been rated by a lot of magazines by one of the most impressive paces to do business. hello tax rate. we are one of the fastest- growing states. we have an educated workforce. we have lower taxes. we did the difficult lifting and challenges of our retirement program. we have a balanced budget.
we do not have the massive debt to other states do. consequently, we can't ride. -- we can authorize. host: ken, republican line. caller: i have three issues i would like to discuss. >> caller: we still have that very huge deficit here, our economy is really not growing nationwide. why is it that all over the country the gas rates are steadily going up, and we know things like the american public is paying for the bp spill. secondly, as far as we are concerned about the government taking over the health care bill, i am in total agreement with the congressman from utah. i don't believe the government should control our health care in any form or our education, however, at the same time, with that health care bill, no one
has seemed to you can read it. nobody is bringing up the fact that everybody will be required to take the chip underneath this bill which is tremendously dangerous for all of us. third thing, on our border security, this is pathetic. we are letting legal immigrants come in here with drugs, guns, illegal immigrants are taking over our health care system. we find out that now we have senior citizens from latin america that are getting social security. what is our government truly doing? are they doing anything at all? >> host: thanks, ken. >> guest: well, ken, good morning in missouri. i appreciate that. first the debt and the deficit. this is one of the min reasons i came to washington, d.c.. i argued we cannot be all things
to all people. here we have a debt, and when i was running in 2008, i was concerned our debt would be $9 trillion, and now it's over $14 trillion. the reality is we cannot sustain it. when you have .25 cents from every dollar spent by the federal government, that's too much. that is too much. we're paying more than $600 million a day just on interest. that's just our interest payment. we don't get anything for that. the state budget for utah is $12 million. >> host: if that's the problem, how do you fix it? >> guest: we have to cut spending. i've been here only 24 months, but what's disconcerning to me is we have not cut anything, not a dime. everything from the $100 million a year, we can't cut that up to big things like social security reform and entitlement reform,
these are things the congress has to have guts and get after. we're committed on a weekly basis to bring up the cuts, but we have some massive cutting to do in order to get to where we are. to the caller's second point about energy prices which to me is also a discussioon how do you thrive and grow jobs? one is we need certainty in the market place. we need to know what's going to happen with taxes and the economy. we will never balance the budget until we have a thriving business economy. we will help more people with health care if they have a job. that's what everything needs to be about is getting the economy going again, and in large part, it's getting government out of the way to let business thrive. they are incentivized not to hire employees. they are more than bumper stickers to me. it's the passion that needs to
envelope all of washington, d.c.. we haven't done anything to cut the debt. >> host: he mentioned health care and illegal immigrants access to it. >> guest: yeah, again to the border security. i don't think the country has confidence that we have secured the border, and better who was on before talked about the question as well and got a question from a caller. in the state of utah, we have a very good health care delivery system. i went to the largest provider, 50% of the market, i said how much more do i p than somebody who has insurance, how much more do i payo cer all the people who we don't know if they are illegal or why they're not paying into the system, but we pay 17% higher rates to cover those people who are not full participants in the system, and that's the bill and burden put upon those who are responsible. i think that's a deep, deep
concern. >> host: that's the concern of mandatory purchase of health care. >> guest: this is where government goes too far. government is going to force you to reach into your pocket and pay for particular service. >> host: you're concerned about people who are not in the system and costs more, so how do we get to where you want to be? >> guest: i like what we're doing in the state of utah. it's not a federal mandate. in the state of utah we say, look, we have a got cancer, howe they going to get insurance? well, no matter what your situation is, you can pay into that system, but they need to pay into that system, and i just don't think that the federal government should be forcing -- that's the line that i will not cross. is it important that we offer those types of products and services? we do already in the state of utah, but i don't think that the federal government should be forcing that. i just think it's unconstitutional.
it's the wrong direction, and it's against the principles i believe in. >> host: next, michael, good morning. >> caller: good morning. my call is regarding, i think the subject was national security and homeland defense, not health care. my call is on the security. it seems to me that the chinese no longer need any espionage against us because if you look at the deals with boeing or ge or any of our technology, the chinese terms are con digital nows on inventions. you give us your technology if you want to sell your products in our country. a recent example to me is the general electric deal which everybody is touting such a great deal. basically, the chinese are going to be building their own single aisle planes. we know that. they are after the aveonics. i've not an expert, but it's
clear that's what they're after and the technology. >> you can view washington journal live tomorrow on c-span. going live to the white house with a briefing with robert gibbs. >> i don't -- i don't think there are translationers. what do you mean? well, if you have questions, i'm happy to answer them. [laughter] i'm sorry -- i don't, no, no, we always planned on doing as we said yes. yeah, he said, well, he did give a fairly long first answer to the consecutive translation, yes. >> [inaudible] >> a better question for the chinese. i would say this, i think the
answer that he gave be it ben's question or hans asking ben's question, no, in all seriousness, i think you would all have to strain your recent memory to find a leader from china traveling outside of his country or in after meeting with the president on a number of occasions on this trip making such a frank admission of the improvement that needed to happen in the area of human rights in the country of china. i -- the process of translation was not the news yesterday. the news was just that that president hu realizes that and told the world that china has to do better. we will serve while we appreciate his words, the united
states will watch the actions of -- will watch the actions of the chinese government to make sure that they meet the words that were spoken in the white house yesterday. >> robert -- robert, i had a few questions and i'll pause and you can follow-up. [laughter] >> you've been waiting to use that a good part of the -- [laughter] if i ignore it, you can come in bend me. [lghter] >> othehanges lad to th election campaign, can we say now or can you say on the podium the president's going to run for reelection? >> i think that is likely that will happen obviously. i will say this, as the article says the president is likely to file papers in the future that
would officially make him a candidate, but i think it's safe to say, ben, that the president -- we've started and we've made some progress on getting our economy back in order, and i think the president wants to continue to do that. >> will it be at the time of file -- [inaudible] >> i don't know that the campaign is that far down the road in the planning. >> as far as going -- so who will be the voice here? >> well, i think the article again says the political office closes here. i think that's a matter of duplication and efficiency that makes a lot of sense to house that operation over at the democratic national committee. >> i also wanted to ask the
state of the union that comes out quickly here, if you could give us some idea where that speech is and maybe more importantly the broad themes. >> well, i think what i say about the state of the union is obviously this is a speech that will center around and the great majority of the speech will be on the steps that the president believes our country has to take toonnue tt eonic reve, ephae take in the short term to relate to jobs, and steps that we need to take in the medium and the long term to put our fiscal house in order and to increase our competitiveness and our innovation that allows us to create the jobs of tomorrow. i think you've heard the president -- i think you've heard the president talk about certainly the notions of competitiveness and innovation a
lot. recently, he's on a number of occasions talked about it in speeches. one that comes to mind is in december in north carolina. i think many of the themes you heard in that and other speeches on the economy, you'll hear ain ntueay. >> thas. >>es, r, yes, sir? >> [inaudible] >> look, obviously, i think that is an important step forward. i think some of that comes as a result of yesterday's meeting here that for the first time there was an acknowledgement by the chinese about the north koreans enrichment program. i think following that the republic of korea agreed to
enter talks with the north koreans. clearly, conditions were created yesterday that showed the republic of korea with china and the united states were aligned in dealing with the aggressions of the north koreans. clearly, i think it was a positive step. >> [inaudible] >> without getting into a lot of detail, i think again spending and what we have to do to get our fiscal house in order is certainly going to be a topic that you'll hear the president discuss on tuesday. i -- mark, i'm not one to get ahead of the president on his speech. jake? >> [inaudible]
where does president obama stand as president -- [inaudible] [inaudible] >> well, jake, i don't know that he spends a lot of time separating the state of the country and where he is in his president sigh because his -- presidency because the task before him and the task he'll bring to the next two years is helping our economy continuing to recover after the massive job loss and downturn of what happened as a result of the financial calamities that peaked in september of 2008. i don't think the president --
obviously there's aids in and out of here who worry about the president's political standings. i don't think the president spends a whole lot of time thinking through and worrying bouts where he is in his presidency. obviously, there's a lot on his plate and a lot that has to be done to continue that recovery, to put the pieces in place to see us be able to compete with the rest of the world, attract the types of jobs we know are necessary to continue our important economic growth. i think that's what the president is focused on each and every day. >> the polling numbers improved slightly, but the standing of the president among that key group of independent voters is still not where you want to to be. what is president obama presumably -- i don't mean to sound -- [inaudible] but if he wants support for his
policies and what do you think is the best path for the country to be reelected and win the independents back. what is he going to do to win the independents back? >> look, i'll tell you this. you look at an series of public polling we turned through in the last week or so, i think it's -- i think the message that we saw come through and what you heard us say a lot during the lame duck i think is manifested ect. in some recent numbers, and that is the american people would like to see democrats and republicans sit down at a table, be it here, be it there, and work through important solutions to the problems that face the american people. that's -- i think that's what we did in large measure during the lame duck. i think with strong bipartisan votes we were able to see an agreement that didn't raise
taxes on middle class families, that protected our country from deploying nuclear weapons, a whole host of things that were tremendously important, and i think that's -- i think that's what the president wants to continue to do, and look, i think what that old add damage that the president is not worried about his political standing, that -- a lot of that takes care of itself. make good decisions on behalf of the american people, and i think that's what he's done for the last two years. >> president hu's remarks on human rights, those are words and while it's a shift, they are still just words. is there any indication from president hu that he will be taking any actions regarding tibet or jailed nobel peace prize winner? >> that's why you heard me say
at the beginning of this that while that admisationis an impoan one, the president will continue to in meetings with president hu and our administration will continue in meetings with chinese officials press the case for tangible action and results on human rights. the president's -- i think he was forward leaning when it cames to the awarding of the nobel prize and what happened when china would not release him in order to go get that nobel prize. >> first time i heard that in two days. >> well, the president talked directly to president hu about that. >> what did he say? >> [inaudible] >> i was not in the meeting. i can't quote anything.
i know obviously the topic was brought up. >> at the dinner? >> i believe that was -- i'll double check. i believe it was in some of the private meetings yesterday. >> would you say the comments made by president hu about human rights were the biggest breakthrough from the meetings? >> well, look, i think if you want to put, sir -- i think we had issues that we discussed in walking you guys through the important aspects of what we hope to get out of this visit. security, economics, and human rights, i think we saw progress in each of those three areas; right? in the security realm, again, the chinese acknowledgement in the statements that of the north korean uranium enrichment program setting forth a series of conditions that made the republic of korea confident
enough to go into talks with the north koreans is certain i would say one in the security basket. in the economic basket, you had a series of important commercial agreements to the tune of about $45 million whichct ortevalunedsa am j rgh h progress on intellectual property rights, obviously, more has to be done on the economic basket, but, again the progress on indigenous innovation and intellectual property rights i think were important steps to move us forward, and lastly, the administration on human rights was obviously another set of issues that you heard the president discuss yesterday that he had spent a lot of time with the chinese president discussing over the course of the last
couple days, so i think -- i think we see some tangible progress on all three of those fronts that's important. there's clearly more work that has to be done. we've seen currency because of actions the chinese have taken as well as inflation rise the -- increase the value of the rmb, but there's still progress to be made on that in order -- you heard the president say yesterday rebalance that currency. >> comments to better complete the prize to the administration? >> i think that was, as i said, i don't -- i'm not a chinese historian, but i think if you go back in recent memory, it's hard to see where a leader of china has said that recently on a trip outside of his country. >> on another issue, what kind
of reaction has the president given to comments about him being a one-term president? we heard that from others. what are his reactions to that comment? >> i haven't talked to him about that. he doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about political comments. >> i think it was a serious question and looking embarrassed and awkward for a moment because nobody told him the translation was not simultaneous, so something as important as a prez conference wite deer in the headlights for a moment, p isn't that a big faux pas to lead the president like that? he looked angry. >> no.
>> i think the progress that was made, look, we can spend worrying about time worrying about process our results. i think the president spent most of his time worrying about result. >> last week, i just want to see if you feel the same way, you were noncommittal on whether not the president would deliver a speech on health care reform at some point, a poll showed only
10% believe the bill has been explained very well. do you think there's a need for him to get out there and explain that? >> no. i don't think, i'm the president has any plans to get it fixed -- give a big speech on health care. i think, do i think a lot of the coverage last year was a process on politics? yeah. you know, do i think at the same time 3.3 million sei do. i think that's why in a series of the public polling that you have seen people don't support repeal, because they understand, they do understand that they are seeing, whether it's their children, children that might
have preexisting conditions ,-comcomma not have to fight insurance companies to ensure coverage. i think they understand that insurance companies are not in charge of making all the decisions anymore, and i think that's a good thing for our medical system. >> will he defend in his state of the union address? >> i think -- i don't know what degree that is. >> does he want ideas to get him excited? >> i have not fully read speed if the president was quoted as saying he wants ideas to get him excited i guess for quitting jobs, to get them excited. do you know if he is found that? >> tune in around nine-ish on tuesday. >> we would like a little preview. you don't have to give us details.
>> i'm looking but i can understand. >> what is the reaction to the . [inaudible] >> i don't think my answer changes. i don't think it was a serious legislative effort, and i don't think people in the house follows a strict legislative issue. i think the message though that those people that voted for repeal were to good health insurae company's back in charge o medical decisions that have the abili to drop, deny, limit or cap health insurance coverage. you know, i think you get a pretty good example of you think should be in charge of health care. should be patients and doctors, or should it be insurance
companies? that's what we have seen. again, i mentioned 3.3 million seniors who have gotten, have gotten help with their prescription drug costs as a result of this, out of pocket costs that will go up if something like this were to become law. that i think thankfully it's not going to. [inaudible]hink that we're going to have a lot of time working through how we get our fiscal house back in order, and the steps that we take to do so. and we've got to make sure that we don't find ourselves crippling our ability to innovate and provide the types ofncentives that we need to
create the jobs that we need. [inaudible] >> whatever answer i just gave. >> just true or false. the attorney general has announced the military commissions for the suspects will go forward. it was 14 months ago he said they're going to a military commission. why so long in setting trial? >> look, i read the story in the paper today. i think individuals are mentioned in the story were talked about in terms of going through military commissions, as you said, quite sometime ago. i don't have any sense of timing or any sense of when final decisions on that type of thing willa outline
-- >> has a final decision been made? >> i think if you look at in terms of timing, i don't -- you've heard the president back at the archives speech talk about the fact that we were going to, we have different groups of those on guantanamo that they would have to be dealt with in different ways which is why we sought the president and the administration work through the law. >> you are president hu's admission that there's work to be done on chinese human rights. what is your reaction that the chinese don't do that, they were blacked out? >> look, again, which is why, which is why one of the conditions coming here was an opportunity to take questions from you guys. look, we can't, obviously
there's very little we can structure to do to deal with that in terms of how they cover this visit. obviously, they've got a very different governmental system that we do. a different system on how leaders in their country are covered. but when the president was in shanghai more than year ago, he talked about needing an open society, having an open internet so that people in china can read about the news all over the world. the world heard the leader of china make that important mission, and the world will watch to see the steps that they take over the course of the next many months to fulfill, or i should say, to make the improvements that he says need
to be made. >> on the changes and the rearranging and establishment of the chicago headquarters, you speak of the fact the economy getting back honesty, there's so many things both politically and economically in this country, is it a little early to start in 2012? >> i think this is very much in line with the calendar that you have seen aligns with similar efforts that were made in, ahead of the 2004 election and head of the 1996 election by presidents bush and clinton. i think that's just the way it works. [inaudible] >> again, there are a whole series of things that happen any campaign. and again, i think they have been very much in accordance with the timeline just seen in the past.
[inaudible] >> i think obviously the campaign makes it far likely. but again, i think the official rendering of that decision would come as the story notes in the filing of that paperwork. >> just a follow-on, what does he hope to get your? >> tomorrow, as you mentioned, the president will go and visit general electric, talk about the economy. it's home to ge's largest energy vision. they will be the future home of their battery manufacturing. this is a company that's had -- that has brought jobs from overseas back into the united states are obviously that's important, and a company that as
a result of some of the work that the president did on commercial diplomacy, and while in india, saw an expansion of the business that they do all over the world supports jobs here in america. i think that's a bit of the backdrop of the events tomorrow. [inaudible] >> there will be some, but we will talk abut those tomorrow. >> how do you all feel about this term obamacare? >> i don't know that i spent a ton of time thinking about it. >> do you find pejorative? >> again, i don't know that i found a lot of time thinking about what somebody may or may not call it. again, i don't know what, i don't know who's getting help from prescription drugs calls it. i don't know if senior that gets
a free preventative visit called it. i don't know what a child that no longer has to fight with an insurance company to get coverage because of their pre-existing condition calls it. my sense is that all those people call that a number of different things, but in their mind it means that they're finally getting a little bit of help with, with the problems that they have. we live in a country where if you get sick, you shouldn't go bankrupt trying to get the type of care and help that you need. and that's what animated the president decision to pass the bill. >> totallyunrelted, robert, i'wondering the presint had any contact with congresswoman giffords family, or any of the other victims since he was in tucson?
>> not that i'm aware of. i'll double check and see if there have been. i've not seen any calls that i know of since tucson. obviously, i think we are all heartened by the almost daily progress report that we hear from, from congresswoman giffordsfamil. i init's nothi shortf exaordinary the amount of progress that has been made in such a very short period of time. you know, peter, having been backstage before that and having talked, talking to some of those who were there that day, who had come from the hospital, who still had wounds, bullet wounds from that horrific day, their
stories continue to give us strength and encourage us, and inspire as each day. i told them several of -- i told several of them that day and i think will be true for a long time. [inaudible] >> the mayors are intent. i think you'll talk about a whole host of things that -- speck in the past they talked about the importance of what it did to plug gaps in their budgets. is any warning that they needed to fiscal consolidation just like the federal government might do fiscal consolidation? >> well, i doubt that anybody here needs to warm them -- warned them of cortical fiscal consolidation. many of them are dealing with and have dealt with for quite some time the impact on the budget of a dramatic downturn in the economy. many of them are dealing with
those problems far before coming here. >> you mentioned on tuesday the president is going to go over -- [inaudible] will they be any new proposals? >> i can imagine if we went through all the say what we probably talk about on wednesday or thursday. i'm not going to dip my toe deeply in the state of the union preview who will. >> made a distinction between the short term, focus on jobs, getting a the fiscal house in order? >> i said both the medium and long-term, dealing with a fiscal budget situation, but also let's understand the steps that we have to continue in the long term to prepare our children for competing in an economy against the chinese and the indians and a whole post to different countries. >> does the present still see something as a tension between short-term focused on jobs and
government spending? >> we obviously had to take a course of two years extraordinaire steps to ensure that economic downturn did not become the next great depression. and we did that, and some of that stuff obviously as tom just mentioned, a lot of that stuff has run its course through the recovery act. so look, i think the president wants to and outlined what he thinks is the best course forward to assuring that we are dealing with a host of problems, including how do we grow our economy, how do we help the private sector create jobs, and how we get our fiscal house in order all at the same time. >> it's one thing out and then down the road. >> even if you look at last year's budget, even at a time
where the second half of the recovery act is still doing what it needed to do, the president presented a budget that proposed nonsecurity discretionary spending because we had to begin to take steps even then. >> in 2007, the labor uniform. the present raise concerns at the time about wal-mart and he said he would not shop there back then but i wonder if that is still true if you would? i know he doesn't spend time shopping but if you feel comfortable buying goods at wal-mart. >> obviously i think we're all in in a different time with clearly steps that have been taken. i think the first lady was proud to stand with the country's
largest retailer. they have taken some dramatic steps in how they're dealing with food and how their marketing food and packaging and things like that. but will make a genuine and big difference for people that shop there. and the first lady is proud to and happy to stand with any company that will make similar, similar pledges to make a difference on behalf of the american people. >> in terms of practices, does he condemn them still and how they treat workers, how they pay workers? he was very explicit about that. >> i guess the short answer is, lots has happened since 2007. >> robert, you said earlier that with respect to president hu,
one of the reasons is coming here was -- [inaudible] >> i was very clear in the planning event that we would have a press conference and the press conference would include questions from you guys. we were cleared to make sure that's what they understood was going to take place, if they came. >> was there any resistance to that? >> i did not deal directly with them on that, but in the pre-planning for this, this is something that we talked about. and not doi it was not an option. >>f you can reminded because i wasn't on the present trip to china, was there a press conference on that trip? a joint press conference with president hu? >> they did not take questions, right. >> was this in some way a reaction to that or sink you are
on our turf that? >> no, we were in china. >> but they didn't take questions in china i guess is what i'm saying, so now you're saying you are on our turf. >> yeah, this is the united states of america. any reaction to the fact that the u.n. meteorological agency has determined that last year was tied with the warmest year on record, and talk about the state of the union and while the president's suggestion that his other ways to deal other than cap-and-trade on that? >> i honestly don't know the answer to the second one. obviously, i think there are continual reminders that we have to transition to a clean energy economy. without getting into whether or not that's in his speech, obviously there are a number of different policy ways to do such a thing. whether it is setting renewable
energy standards that create the type of market conditions where you see that transition. again, there are obviously a number of different ways to do that. >> the president considers it a big issue still? >> look, the security of our planet, and will continue to be issues that we're going to have to deal with, and again, look, more and more and more of our oil comes from, or our energy comes from places that are not here. that puts us at a disadvantage. we've clearly taken some steps to change corporate average fuel economy. fuel economy standards that less than some of that usage of foreign oil, i think there's no doubt that we have a lot more to do. the recovery act invest in wind
and solar, the plant will visit to mark will soon be home to ge's advanced battery manufacturing, as you see car companies both foreign and domestic having success marketing cars that don't run on gas, but run on electricity. we are going to have to meet many of those challenges. >> to question. first is -- [inaudible] how the white house does better. >> look, i think as i said earlier, i think we saw some progress on a host of important fronts that we wanted to see progress on. security, the economy, and human rights. but at the same time, again, i think that whether it's our trip
to india and south korea, japan, our trip to china last year, china's trade. no, i think there've been evaluating over the course of a long-term to see, have we set ourselves on the path making real and substantial progress. so i think we will, while we are pleased with the outcome of the visit from yesterday, obviously on each of those baskets that i discuss, security, the economy and human rights, the two leaders talked about progress. inserted we acknowledge progress needs to be made and it hasn't been, to try to be a leader in seeing that happened. >> and also, currency issue. you mentioned there's a lot of work to be done. what's the next state? >> the next that is what the chinese. in taking continuing to take
action at a faster pace to deal with the valuation of the currency. again, obviously there's been a decent amount of coverage on this. there's actions that you take to change the valuation, and certainly inflation gives you some real impacts,m changes. but again, as the president said on a couple occasions yesterday, not quickly enough. >> one of president obama's campaign promise was -- [inaudible] >> well, look, i think aa president, that the esident has made part of his campaign. we talked about doma a few days ago. and other things are important to build off the progress of
don't ask, don't tell. i think those continue to be priorities of the present and we will certainly progress on those fronts and on these and much more challenging congress over the course of the next two years. >> in the senate where democrats have control, they want a challenge that. >> i think you'll see the president push, continue to push on a whole host of those issues. [inaudible] to build momentum for a complete passage at a later time. >> there's no doubt that, look, whenever you get something done in one, you are closer to seeing it come to fruition. so yes, obviously. >> with the president addressed in any context jobs? >> i'm not going to get into previewing the state of the union. >> a question about the present will be talking with congressional democrats this
weekend, at the convention. does he have a message, so talking about what his state of the union might -- >> he travels up there tomorrow after i returned from schenectady. i think you'll talk to themte o. >> democrats will have to respond republicans who are not only trying to repeal the law, but also they are trying to replace the health care law. >> i did notice they passed it on almost one and a half page bill. yes. yes. many of which i find it interesting to many of the goals they espouse in that bill are the current law of the land. like ensuring that people are not discriminated because of pre-existing addition. that actually exist. it's called the affordable care act.
[inaudible] >> i am happy that several years later they have gotten around to what they might do. i think all of you must be anxious to know what they're going to do. i thk they'veset frthsome exceedgly lofty goals, ain, some owhich, mos f wich are currently embodied in the law of the land. but yeah, happy for them to take a spin and tell us how they will do, how they will do what they passed today. i would suggest, too, as they talk about making some progress in the depth that they do with congressional budget office, indication that the action they took just yesterday at a couple hundred billion dollars to the deficit. now, keep in mind this was the cbo that while we were going through the process of health
care reform was the be all and end all of the scorekeeper. then when that same cbo headed by the very same person discussed the very same topic on the impact of the deficit on health care reform reform, all of a sudden, that can't possibly be right. that's not true. so i think it is important to underscore that the first legislative action that congress did was to repeal a law that helps seniors and helps families and added a couple hundred billion dollars to the deficit, not entirely sure that in the run up to the 2010 campaign they spent a lot of time talking to seniors about raising their out of pocket costs on medical care and prescription drugs, or talk about adding a couple hundred billion dollars to tefi. ri >>n suof cntr, rm icepridt cheney said that he could see some sort of more restrictions on
semiautomatic weapons. is this administration going to navigate through tough waters of gun control in the wake of what happened in arizona? >> april, i do have a lot to add to what i have said i think on a couple of occasions into on that, and that is i have no doubt that there will be proposals offered as a result of different circumstances that have happened in tucson, and the administration would evaluate those proposals. [inaudible] >> again, i think we're looking to some of those proposals. >> and also back on china on a whole nother issue. on issues of the union. they had unions in china. lost translation. >> sometimes i can't hear. >> they had unions in china.
did they discuss that issue, particularly the first union in china? >> let me ask some of our guys whether that's a topic that came up. i honestly don't know the answer. >> completely different subject. what are the president doing plans for the nse champion gene? >> i think is going to do like he did last week at the last week he went to play basketball with the girls and came back a little after kickoff. they had some staff at the present watch most of the gain over in the theater. i think the president plans to do that again, and i think we've given this to a few papers in chicago and wisconsin. the president's prediction that the bears will win the game 20-17. >> has he made any better? >> not that i know of. 's. will he go to wisconsin? >> yes. we are still planning a trip to
wisconsin. i might have already, i might just complicated, complicated the questions you asked with a political effort by predicting the team in wisconsin not doing as well against the team in >> if they lose he won't go? >> no, no, no. he's going to wisconsin. of course, he's going to wisconsin. i think the president hopes to have his team playing. >> does he plan to go? >> i will say this, no, no, no. this is superstition. i will answer this question on behalf of him based on superstition. i think all about is way, way, way getting ahead of yourself. not nearly as much as i am. >> i will take a stab at this. is the state of union address, the president no doubt will
remind americans that we have troops on the ground into war zones. will he do at the same time try to get the american people and republicans behind the idea may be pulling back on defense spending, considering everything else he may mention in terms of reducing spending get? >> look, i think it is safe to say that we are going to see, going to have to see a tightening of the belt around everything in order to make progress, in getting our fiscal house in order. the secretary of defense, mr. gates, has taken some steps on procurement reform and taken some steps to cancel weapons systems, programs, bad, for quite some time, the military itself hasn't wanted despite the fact that congress might
continue to fund it. i think those types of efforts have to happen, because we can't see taxpayer dollars wasted. >> the american people may not know about strike a joint fire or debate over an engine, kind of thing. should the president maybe point that out in his state of the union address? >> without get into what may or may not be in there, again, i think whether it's in the speech were not is something that the president and the secretary will continue to work on. >> do you think it's possible that president hu jintao's remarks on human rights is overread? several occasions yesterday he stated china didn't share western definitions of human rights. >> look, i guess i do want to translate the translation, but i will say this. as i started out by saying, i think that regardless of what he
said yesterday, the true test is not in the words that someone speaks but in the actions that a country takes. and that's what animated the ai inan ito iue think -- the actions that country takes is how we will evaluate the progress that they may or may not make over the course of the coming months. >> any sense in which you could see this as passionate it was scripted that he had come as way to alleviate pressure while stating that china would continue on its current policy? >> again, look, i think you can read it, maybe you can read several different ways. i think it was an admission that we haven't heard before. and again, i knowements to
make is part of it, but it's a very small part compared to what has to be done to make progress, and that's what we will watch. >> was that done privately go? >> again, i was not in on the private meetings. >> on guantanamo, robert, with reports that the administration is likely to start military trials in guantanamo, what does this mean for the administration's efforts of getting some detainees back to you the home country our host countries, and doesn't have any effect on the administration's talks with these other countries? >> look, there are -- the beginning of my answer acknowledge there are some prohibitions, legal prohibitions now on some transfers that i
think you've seen in the past. we will continue the process of going through who is there. clearly, the courts continue the process of going through who is there and deciding whether or not, whether them in continually held it is in accordance with the laws, as you have seen courts do in the past. but none of these decisions change our fundamental desire and goal to see because of our security, the prison at guantanamo bay closed once and for all. >> doesn't cause a delay in any of these deadlines? >> again, i would point you to the fact that the individuals that were named in today's story
were the same three, three individuals that were talked about to be tried in military commissions quite some time ago. >> let me follow-up on april's question for second second. represented mccarthy and senator lautenberg have proposed a bill that would ban high magazines for guns and ammo. had been any discussions between those and the white house whether that is a proposal worth pursuing in this congress? >> i don't know the answer to that. i don't know what specific conversation they'd had. >> given the president previous condition on banning assault weapons and there is and gun-control measures, is this something you think he would likely support? >> again, i think we are looking through different proposals, the proposal you mentioned and others, and we will evaluate them based on those events.
>> is any possibility of any proactive and propose something of your own? >> i have not heard anything in particular. >> the president's poll numbers have been moving up fairly steadily. what does the white house attribute that? >> again, i think i said earlier that i think, i think what the american people said in the election was they wanted to political parties to be able to work together, make progress on issues that were important to them, particularly economic issues. i think that's what they saw, i think that's what they saw during the lame-duck session. i think that was a productive time. people saw republicans and democrats working together to make sure their tax rates didn't go up. so i think there's some obvious benefit to that.
>> just back, i'm curious to the presence of one of the nature turned it would be plenty time for the next election in 2012. i would bet mike paycheck in the state of union -- [inaudible] why i now -- [inaudible] >> sorry. >> i'm curious why announce this now? doesn't a complicated state of union? why not wait? >> i think it's important to understand, just because a present -- the president, you will not see the president doing a ton of political reelection events. that's just the nature of the way these things work is you've got to have, you've got to set up a legal mechanism by which to begin to find something like
this. you have to get people in place. you saw the quotes in the story that this will be located in chicago and focus on the type of grassroots effort that we saw in 2008. that doesn't mean that the president is going to spend a whole lot of time worrying about that. the campaign will be run by a group of people in chicago whose jobs will be to worry about that, not the president's back the vice president said in a note to supporters today which he says this white house has cost any more than any president since fdr. >> i'm not going to contradict the vice president, that's what you're. [inaudible] >> i know we haven't posted china blues, but come on. a little help. >> that would certainly liven
things up. >> robert, i don't have to remind you that senator lieberman endorse john mccain's campaign for them and said barack obama wasn't prepared to be president. is the president really to see joe lieberman out of the senate? >> look, obviously we had a disagreement on the 2000 presidential campaign, but i think senator lieberman is -- look, take the most recent, the progress that we were talking about that was made in the lame-duck. i think i've easy senator lieberman is somebody who, while having disagreements with this white house and with senator obama when he was in the united states senate, clearly played an important and instrument role in rolling back something that he and the president shared, i believe in the justice of don't ask, don't tell. so i think that obviously senator lieberman made a
decision as he said to go on and do something different in his life. and while we haven't agreed with him on every issue, i think clearly there are a whole post of issues, energy independence, don't ask, don't tell, a whole lot of issues that the president was happy to see senator lieberman's leadership and support on. >> did they get together and say let bygones be god -- let bygones be bygones and let's move forward? >> look,hik thesne t some moment. people are free to make decisions. senator lieberman was about his support to run for president, but i don't think, i don't think anybody here has been a lot of time thinking about that. in fact, there were some who
thought maybe because of that, senator lieberman wouldn't be the chairman of the committee, and that was not the view that we held. >> i was wondering if the president has been briefed on what appears to be impending food shortage as a result of bad weather in uthmeca and ut ari. >> i'mot awar ha he hs not,utet me see if that has either come up in nsc meeting or in any of his economic data briefings. [inaudible] >> let me ask, many tags on the.
i would get something. >> with the emphasis on regulation this week that there was a bill and reintroduce today backed by either banner that would require a vote on regulation, regulation before they could go to to give any comment on that? >> let me give some guidance on that bill. i'm not for me with it. let me see if there's some guidance from legislative affairs. thank you, guys. ?>ñ
two separate country. orbitals overwhelming support for this session of the referendum vote was a compromise of decades of civil war in the country. witnesses include former bush administration special envoy to sudan richard lindzen, and state department advisor princeton lyman. >> good aftrnoon. after my opening remarks of those of mygood friends mr. berman, the ranking member of the committee, i will recognize the chairman designate and the ranking member designate of the africa global health and human rights subcommittee, mr. smith on our side, mr. payne, for three minutes each. we will be moved to our panelists presentation followed by questioning by the members designate of the committee on foreign affairs. and i use that phrase because we are not formally organize yet, for five minutes each, followed by five minutes each for any other member who would like to ask questions of our panelists. and i appreciate the r ll, darding and raon
'sdsssns and before we begin i would like to express what an honor it is to assume the responsibilities of chairman of the house committee on foreign affairs, omr the members who willes be c joining the committee up ons. organizations, please know that i do not take those responsibilities lightly. drinking on the 12th congress this committee will be confronted with some of the mos2 pressing national security and foreign policy challenges of ouf time, from injuring rigorous enforcement of sanctions against iran, to provide effective rigos stewardship of american taxpayet dollars, in foreign aid andectie state department programs, to state uting systems for accountability at the united nations. i fully intend to work with alln members of the committee and the american people to confront these challenges directly am eesponsibly and effectively. it is therefore fitting that the first members briefing hosted by
this committee would be focused n sudan.iefing hosd today, sudan is truly at the fon suossroads. beginning on january 9, milliont of south sudanesehe participateh in a historic referendum to determine whether africa'slliono largest country would remain united were split into referend determine whether africa's gi v eruptions would that's imperiled implementation of the peace agreement for sudan over these past six years, many doubted that this day would come. yet the vote preceded after decades of repression by a genocidal regime in khartoum and a war that left 2 million people dead and 4 million displaced, the people have realized their right to self-determination.
unfortunately, the hardest work is yet to come. first, the results must be cert feed and accepted. though khartoum has pledged to accept the outcome, it has a long history of reneging on the years preparing for war. second, outstanding issues relating to the implementation of the cpa must be resolved prior to conclusion of the transition period in july 2011, including the demarcation of the border, citizenship and nationality, wealth sharing and resource management, including for oil and water. division of assets and debt, currency and security arrangements. third, the future status of the oil-rich obeyay region must be resolved. it's a lit match in a pool of gasoline and continued failure
to resolve its status all but arantees war likewise, the pul consultations in blue nile must proceed in a manner that addresses long standing agree vances. these areas are awash with weapons and tensions are high. a single security incident could set the entire region ablaze. finally, we must not trade peace in darfur for independence in the south. it appears the administration may have forgotten key lessons from the past. prior u.s. efforts to reward the sudanese regime for signing peace agreements while the regime simultaneously supported genocide in darfur blocked humanitarian access, and stalled implementation of the cpa were broadly condemned. in the words of then senator
barack obama in april of 2008, and i quote, "i am deeply concerned by reports that the bush administration is negotiating a normalization of relations with the government of sudan. this reckless and cynical initiative would reward a regime in khartoum that has a record of failing to live up to its commitments." yet the obama administration is following the same misguided concessions. i do not intend to minimize what has been accomplished inside sudan, delivering a timely, credible referendum was an incredibly hard task. but again, the referendum is just the start. the true test of the regime's commitment will extend far beyond the july 2011 date and far beyond south sudan. thus, i am deeply troubled by the efforts to advance normalization sanctions is, relief and debt relief. the bulk of sanctions mandated
by congress are linked to peace in south sudan and in darfur, given recent developments in darfur, the certification requirements for easing of sanctions cannot be met. suesonth tcceedy adraonayrovudan from the state sponsors of terrorism list by july 2011. removal from this list is not a gold star that can be afforded to advance an unrelated political objective. this is a serious matter with repercussions that directly impact our most vital national security interests. recall that the previous separation d-listed north korea in exchange for nominal concessions relating to one nuclear facility. almost immediately upon win thing prize, north korea reneged on its promise to implement a transparent verification regime, withdrew from the six-party talks, and brazenly resumed its
proliferation activities. today, north korea reportedly possessions one or more highly sophisticated uranium enrichment facilities and according to the united nations, is supplying iran, syria and burma with nuclear and ballistic missile related equipment. the u.s. must proceed with extreme caution in our deal wgs the sudanese regime. the potential birth of a new nation in south sudan will have significant ramifications beyond the region. the uned states s ay a majorole iringinhe rts to ts int, andtis in our national interest to see that the process advances. the risks are high. the challenges are daunting. but the achievement of peace in a region ravaged by war is an honorable endeavor. i welcome the opportunity to work with the administration and responsible partners for peace in sudan toward this end.
i now turn to our ranking member, mr. burman, for his opening remarks. >> thank you, madame chairman, and thank you for calling this timely briefing. i want to begin by congratulating you on your new position as chairman and congratulate the new subcommittee chairs and i look forward to working with all of you in the 112th congress. at the outset, i would like to commend donald payne and other members on both sides of the aisle for their leadership on sudan. especially their efforts to focus the world's attention on the unspeakable atrocities committed by the khartoum regime against the people of south sudan and darfur. their work on these critical issues inspired two major pieces of legislation. the comprehensive peace in sudan act of 2004, and the accountability act of 2006, along with a number of
resolutions condemning the regime for crimes against humanity. this past week marked a historic moment for the people of south sudan. who fought a 22-year civil war to arrive at this moment of self-determination. while we do not know the official results of the referendum, it is clear the vote will almost certainly result in independence for the south. as we consider this milestone, it's important that we remember the late president john mabior, who led the sudan people's liberation movement and army through the long civil war. a terrible conflict that resulted in the deaths of over 2 million south sudanese and the displacement of millions more. before his tragic death in a helicopter crash in july 2005, he negotiated the comprehensive peace agreement with khartoum. that agreement provided for the referendum and other events we will examine today. after his election in 2008,
president obama undertook a bolder view of u.s. policy towards sudan and set out a new vision. this new strategy required significant changes in behavior by the khartoum go. it demanded verifiable progress of a settlement between the north and south as well as progress in darfur. the president's new approach was great with great skepticism by many of us in congress, in part, because it directed -- it required direct engagement with a sudanese government that committed genocide and other gross violations of human rights, to carry out the new policy, president obama appointed retired air force general gration has special envoy to sudan. gration assembled a team and developed a strategy to realize the president's vision. our first witness today also
deserves great credit for his efforts to complete the road map that helped deliver khartoum's final cooperation on the cpa and the referendum. today, we can see the results of the obama administration's hard work. a major goal of the co comprehensive peace agreement has been chiefed. there are many outstanding issuing to resolve before independence is finalized in july. a referendum on the status of the oil producing region is yet to take place. an agreement needs to be reached on the sharing of oil revenue, the division of nation debt, the delineation of orders. there's also the issue of citizenship. should the south vote to form an independent state, there are fears that northerners could be left stateless and vulnerable to political violence. and there is the issue of peace
in darfur. we must not forget the across sis that have taken place in that region ofhe sudan in 2004, congre and e bush ministrati declared that the events in darfur constituted genocide. in 2008, the iertional imin couinct omarel bashir on g two counts of murder. i'm encouraged that president obama has remained focus on darfur and intends to revive the stalled negotiations between khartoum and the rebel groups in darf darfur. the people have taken a major step toward self-determination, but there are many difficult days ahead. the new nation will face a large number of challenges from building the basic institutions of statehood to economic development to the reintegration of the returnees.
there is little capacity to meet these daunting challenges. if south sudan is to flourish, then the united states, the united nations, and other members of the international community, must continue to assist the people of that nation in their transition to independence and democratic rule. it is important to realize the efforts of the united nations development program to make the referendum a reality. the u.n. dp supported voter education, delivered ballots on schedule and helped to establish and equipment nearly 3,000 registration centers and trained over 8,000 staff to manage those. these efforts and the efforts of u.n. peacekeepers in south sudan, underscore the extent to which the u.n.'s work can support u.s. foreign policy efforts and contribute to peace and security. we would not be where we are today in out sudan without hard-nosed american diplomacy, the active involvement of the
united nations, and targeted u.s. foreign assistance programs. i look forward to the testimony of ourr. burman. i would like to recognize for three minutes the chairman designate of the africa global health and human rights committee, mr. smith of new jersey. >> i want to begin by joining mr. burman and congratulate you on assuming the chairmanship of this committee. there are crises everywhere. and we look forward to all of us on this side of the aisle and the other side, as well, in working with you in finding tangible solutions to the many vexing problems we face. so congratulations, madame chair. i thank you for calling this timely and important briefing to examine the historic events occurring in sudan. i congratulate the people of southern sudan and join them in celebrating the completion of the referendum on the future status of their country.
the u.n. monitoring panel assessed that the process was well organized and credible, and that is commendable given the serious time and resource constraints that preceded it. however, the voting last week marked only the beginning of what promises to be a long process, fraught with peril. it will take several weeks for the votes to be transmitted from the nearly 3,000 referendum centers to county and state levels, and on to khartoum before the results are announced. if the south has voted for secession, then potentially volatile issues remain to be resolved. among the most prominent is the demarcation of the border, including the division of the oil reserve region and fertile land. the sharing of oil reserves as well as debt and the question of citizenship are some of the other major challenges still to be addressed. and the establishment of a
permanent peace in darfur remains an elusive goal as violence intense fies. i personally am concerned about the return of southerners residing in the north to the south. i was informed during a hearing in september that humanitarian agencies at that time were not prepared to handle mass movements in sudan. unless this assessment has changed, such movements could lead to a severe humanitarian crisis and have a destabilizing security impact on the south. those southerners who remain in the north against their will is another troubling concern. beginning in the 1980s, militias conducted slave raids in the south, taking mostly women and children to the north to serve as labor and sex slaves. the 2005 comprehensive peace agreement failed to address this issue and 35,000 southerners remain in the north in a state of forced servitude.
this must be acknowledged as a priority and the freedom of all slaves secured. finally, i look forward to hearing the views as to what the impact the referendum will have on the north, assuming a vote for independence. the government of sudan allowed it to proceed and stated it will respect the outcome. but given its track record, it is not a basis for optimism. >> thank you, mr. smith. i would like to recognize the ranking member designate of the africa global health and human rights subcommittee, mr. payne. >> thank you very much. let me commend you for your attention of this committee. let me thank you for holding this critical meeting on sudan being the first hearing and i think it's appropriate. let me express my appreciation to the witnesses who are among the most knowledgeable people on so you dan. ambassador limon who did a great job in south africa and nigeria.
special envoy williamson, who, with the state department and u.n. posts, was a great envoy to sudan and mr. ishmael, who fled from darfur and has been a great advocate for justice. let me thank all of you for your commitment and self-determination to make this day a reality. today, sudan is at the crossroads. a week long referendum has just concluded. by all accounts, the outcome is clear. crossroa crossroads. the people of south sudan have chosen independence. my friends on the ground have replayed stories of remarkable moments that illustrate the hope and excitement that lies in the heart of the south sudanese. policemen looked around and told me in line, i crossed a river. come join me. a pregnant woman while online to vote gave birth and was later able to cast her vote for the sake of her new baby. as i reflect on the 20 years
that i've been working with sudan, i remember many pivotal moments of my own in the congress struggle to see the people of south sudan exercise their right of self-determination. i remember my first visit to a town year the ugandan border which was the frontline of the struggle back then helped immediate negotiations between two factions. it was then i first met dr. john garag father of south sudan's quest for economy as well as a young military commander who is now the president of the government of south sudan. upon returning from that trip, i along with other members introduced a resolution in the house calling for the right of self-determination for the people of south sudan and it passed this body. i recall over a dozen visits to south sudan in the darfur refugee camps with representatives it lee and wolf and tancredo along with senator
feingold, senator frist, senator brownback, all dedicated members of this institution at that time. after one such visit in 2004, i sponsored a resolution to call the world's attention to the atrocities in darfur which passed the house overwhelmingly the first time that the congress recognized on going genocide while it was going on. i recall visits to nairobi in 2004 and 2005 and the negotiation nags culminated in o i will ask that the rest of my statement it be added to the record since the gavel has been hit, but i do sanctionsing are released. we see what's happened in india
with cashmere still a question. we don't want abiya to be a question 20 years from now with fighting going on. >> as the new members will know, it's embarrassing to gavel down the gentleman from new jersey and both gentlemen from new jersey because they are the leading experts when it comes to africa. we are well served by having members smith and payne with us. i'm sorry for the time restraints. . we are very privileged to have two distinguished panels before us today. i know everyone is anxious to hear what they have to say. they are the experts. i will encourage members to read their biographies in full in your packet. we'll begin with ambassador princeton lyman who has just returned fromming the referendum process in sudan. the ambassador was appointed by
secretary clinton in august 2010 to lead the u.s. negotiations support unit in sudan. prior to his appointment, he was serving as an a and as an adjun professor at georgetown. he has a long distinguished career in government service is, deputy assistant secretary of state for africa, u.s. ambassador to nigeria and south africa and assistant secretary of state for international organization fairs. he has a p.h.d. in political science from harvard university and has published numerous books and articles on foreign policy, african fairs an, economic development, hiv/aids u.n. reform and peacekeeping. ambassador lyman, the floor is your yours. thank you, sir. could push that little button there.
>> thank you very much, madame chairman. thank you and the members, ranking member congressman berman and all the members here for holding this hearing and making this one of the very first issues of your chairmanship and of the committee this year. this is a terribly important issue. i recall prime minister mellis at the u.n. meeting in sudan in september saying and his man who faces a lot of crisis in his neighborhood saying that the peace process in sudan was the most important in all of africa. and it's an indication of how widespread the implications are of having peace in that area. thank you also for the work that congress has done on this tisch. all members, the legislation, et cetera. it's made an extraordinary difference to send a message to the people of sudan how much the united states cares, not just about the politics and the strategic aspects of it, but the
welfare of the people who have suffered from war during this long period of time. we had a good week, madame chairman. we had, as you described abcongressman berman and others have a referendum that even a month or two ago we doubted could come off this well. it came about peacefully and all the observer missions whether the arab league, the africa union, the u.n., ndi or others all saying this was a credible fair effective referendum. it took a lot of work. a lot of diplomatic work, a lot of wonderful work by the united nations. and u.s. aid assembled an extraordinary team of ifus, ndi, ira, the carter center all working together to give the referendum commission the technical support it needed
against all th a lot involved here. and a lot of people deserve credit. but as you said in your opening statement, this is just one step. there's a lot of hard work left to go. one of the issues and congressman payne emphasized this and others have as well is abiya, a deeply difficult stlug emotional issue in sudan he's politics and its history. even during the referendum, we had instances of violence in that area that was finally brought under control with the help of the u.n. and the meeting of the parties, and there was an agreement signed this past weekend that should permit the beginning of the migration security for it and other arrangements to contain the situation. but the underlying issue of the future of abiyy remains a very
critical one. it's an issue that can probably only be solved at the level of the presidents, of president bashir and we hope that action will resume on those negotiations very shortly after the referendum. there are other processes. there are the popular consultations that are very important in blue nile and south cordoban. i'm happy to say the consultations have started in blue nile. i will be visiting that area next week to witness some of those consultations and we hope south core doe ban will be able to start soon after the elections in that state. as you've all said, are a whole range of issues that the two parties now have to get down to working. if s a ifs are as you know, much of the oil is in the south. much of the infrastructure for exporting and refining it is in
the north. people live along that border some 30% of the population, and they go back and forth all the time. there needs to be a solution to the oil sector to citizenship issues, to what both parties have called soft borders and how they'll operate. security arrangements, currency, et cetera. a lot of work's been done. a lot of technical work has been done, but now the political work has to start on bringing these issues to a head. now, you've mentioned the question of our relationships to sudan. and particularly to the government of northern sudan, and it's a very important issue. part of the discussions that have been going on for the last month is how the u.s. relationship with northern sudan played into the negotiations. and there was a very strong feeling that until there was some sense of our own relationships with the sudan and the future of sudan, there would
be an obstacle there to the negotiations themselves. but something equally important that i've discovered in my time there, i've met with leaders of the opposition in the north, i've met with women's groups and youth groups and what i find is that the people of northern sudan are terribly worried about the outcome of the cpa. they feel that they're going to be ban donned. they feel that it will lead to war. they feel that it will lead to economic deprivation and they want to know what the future is for them once the south is gone. and that's an important concern because instability in the north or chaos in the north is not going to be any more in our interests than to chaos in the south. there has also to be political transformation in the north. that's part of the dream, if you will, the objective of the cpa, and it hasn't really happened. we want to be engalged in the
north. we want it to be successful and strategically stable, and we want to see prosperity for the people there. we have put out a road map for normalization with northern sudan after the cpa. and i can assure you that it is based on actions. it's not based on promises. the first step only comes after the government accepts the results of the referendum. and as the president said in his letter to senator kerry which senator kerry presented to the sudanese was that the president would begin the process of withdrawing sudan from the list of states sponsoring terrorism but they would have to meet all the conditions under that law n and they would also have to complete the negotiations which you've all well described for
the balance of the cpa. and there has to be progress toward peace in darfur. so before we can even complete that process and certainly before we would come to congress and discuss the possibility lifting of sanctions, steps would have to be taken, concrete steps by the north. in the meanwhile, a great deal has to be done on helping southern sudan. it is an area, as all of you know, devastated by war. extraordinarily poor with almost see very little agricultural activity. you see almost no roads. you have very low educational base and a thin administrative structure. a lot of donors are working on that problem. we are the major donor. our technical assistance this past year to the government of
southern sudan is about $430 million. other donors are contributing just under $700 million to developing the capacity of the south. a lot of countries are involved, kenya is the biggest trainer of technical personnel. the uk, the european union, norway and others and china has begun a development program in the south. but it's going to be a long, hard struggle for the south to meet the expectations of its people. we've done a lot and we'll continue to do a lot to build up their capacity, their ability for conflict resolution within the south, their ability to deliver in education, health and the other areas of which their people expect. now, i'm not -- darfur is not my brief. general grathion was just in
darfur their past week and he's joined now by another colleague of mine, dane smith, who will be working on darfur in the same way that i've been working on the north/south. but i don't want anybody to get the impression that the administration is either forgetting darfur or sacrificing darfur to the cpa. in fact, there's a good deal of interaction in sudan between the two. there has to be peace in both places for sudan north and south to succeed. i'm not the expert on darfur, but i know that work is under way to try and bring peace to strengthen unament, to increase access for the humanitarian organizations and bob all, to get a credible peace process. and i'm sure generalgration would be happy to brief you on all of that. let me conclude on one important issue raised by congressman smith, and that is the condition
and the future for the southerners living in northern sudan. there's quite a few, as you know. stims of as many as 1.5 million. since the beginning of the cpa in 2005, 330,000 people very returned to south sudan. just since last august, 150,000 have returned. and more are returning all the time. what we found was that the process was erratic, not very well planned and the states in the southern part of sudan not prepared to receive them or get them to places where they could earn a livelihood. so we've worked now. we and the u.n. to try and regularize that process. we went to the government of sudan and said weigh need access to all the places where the southerners live in the north. we didn't have that access before. we have it now. we and the u.n. and international agencies can now
go visit the southern population in the north, find out what they're planning. unhr is going to begin a registration process and try and make more orderly the process of departure. second we're working with the government in the south to come up with more realistic timetables and plans for absorbing that many people in what is as a very poor area. so, i just wanted to assure you that this is an issue high on our list, and we have been given assurances but we'll monitor it very closely that there will be no reprisals against those people. but it does raise one final issue that i can -- you've all mentioned. that's the citizenship issue because the question is what happens when the south becomes independent to southerners living in the north or northerners living in the south. the government of sudan, the ncp, has said that they will not
support dual citizenship for everyone. and that's a right of a government to say that. but what we and others have argued is and both sides have agreed in principle is that you cannot create a situation of statelessness for anyone. therefore, there has to be a period of transition during which southern sudan develops its own rules, regulations and procedures for citizenship and then southerners who so wish can access that citizenship if they choose. these are -- these are very important issues both for the stability of the country and basic human rights and it's one of the critical issues still to be negotiated. madame chairman, happy to answer questions. >> excellent testimony. and we will begin our question and answers now. practice, i will be recognizes you by seniority. for those who are here when i
make the sound of the gavel and then by order of arrival for those who arrive after the gavel. so there's an incentive to get here on time, boys and girls. i'm pleased as punch to have so many members of our freshman class on our committee and to make a public declaration of how pleased i am. among the freshman members of our committee mr. duncan's name. i will yield my question and answer time to mr. duncan from south carolina. >> mr. duncan is recognized. >> thank you, madame chairman. ambassador lyman, thank you for coming to address the committee today about the sudan. just have a few questions because we're concerned about terrorism in the to congress that sudan has permanently seized support for
fellow state sponsors of terrorism, including iran and syria and designated foreign terrorist organizations including hamas? >> first it, madame chairman, i forgot, i submitted a fuller statement for the record, if that's okay. congressman, that be part. >> without objection, thank you. >> thank you very much. that will be part of this process that would begin and it's a process whereby the relevant agencies in the united states government would be examining that. i think the requirement is to look at it over a six-month period to make sure that sudan would meet all the criteria under the law regarding counter-terrorism. that process hasn't yet begun because the president hasn't announced it, because it's conditional to even begin that process based on the acceptance of the results of the referendum. but i assure you that that will be done and that the administration will then consult with congress on the results of
that open source reports that iranian arms in sudan enroute to hamas and the gaza strip? can you help with that? >> i can't comment on that, congressman, but i can assure you that those are the kinds of issues that will be looked at in this review process. >> reports of bashir's strong relationship, hamas leadership inaccurate? >> i'm afraid i'm not in a position to comment on that. i again say that the agencies in the u.s. government are going to examine all of that as part of this process. i apologize that i'm not in a position to comment on that information which our agencies will have to determine and verify. >> we look forward to the time that you can comment on that. thank you. >> i yield back my time.
>> thank you very much. thank you for that maiden voyage. welcome to all of our wonderful freshmen. i'd like to yield five minutes to our wonderful ranking member, mr. berman. >> thank you, madame chairman. and i'm -- i'm going to follow your lead and i'm going to yield my five minutes to the punitive and i think soon to be ranking member of the african subcommittee, the long-time chair of that subcommittee and my great extent one of my key mentors on the issue of sudan, mr. payne. >> mr. payne is recognized. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i've lost -- for yielding and ambassador lyman, the -- the aeu was
east african intergovernmental authority on development which has several east african countries, about six or seven, kenya, in the actually in the negotiations in navasha. how strong do you believe that the au and egad will remain in t the -- in sudan as they move forward to the more difficult times? >> i think the roles are going to be different. the africa union is now charged with overseeing the post referendum negotiations over the issues we talked about. and the high level panel that the au has created to do this is headed by former south african president nbeki and with former ba ruddian president and former
nigerian president abu bakker. they have a sta staff and over seen the structure of the negotiations. we in the u.n. worked very, very closely with them and republican official observers in those discussions and worked very closely with them on the negotiations. egad now plays i think a different and more political role, the e gp app d summit some weeks ago was a very important step in confirming assurances from the government of sudan about the referendum and proceeding with the cpa. they are not as active as they used to be in navasha and elsewhere in the actual is cert very difficult issue to confront but also as you know, the blue nile and the southern states have also some question about
where they really belong. what is your take on those two states? >> well, the cpa did not see the popular consultations as the same as for -- abiya was accorded the right of self-determination to see if they wanted to be part of the north or south. that is not included in the reference for the popular consultations. what the consultations are supposed to do is determine how the cpa has affected them and how their relationships both internally and the state and with khartoum should take place. if i can describe it it, good governance consultations rather than self-determination consultations. and what we are pleased about with blue nile is ther way. people are coming forward, civil societies coming forward. and they will look very carefully at both the governance of the state and the way the
central government impacts on their lives. as you know, elements in those states fought on the side of the splm, but they live in the north. and they're part of the th k in in the rth. >>nd the final question about egypt and the nile, egypt can be very, very constructive. or they can be very destructive. during this whole conflict. the nile is something that egypt feels concerned about. how do you think the negotiations regarding egypt in the north and other countries will go on the nile? >> i think it's -- it's not a secret that egypt was very concerned about the whole self-determination vote and the implications of it, but toward
the latter part of the year, egypt became very supportive, and just prior to the referendum, president mubarak along with president gadhafi came and urged the government to go ahead and go through with a referendum and follow the dictates of h the new governmen southern sudan. now, water, as the chair woman said is one of the issues to be negotiated, how the water is managed, the nile which cuts through both southern and northern sudan are going to be managed, access to water, amounts of water. those negotiations have not gottener fthl b wich t vy hama and human rightsing is recognized. >> thank you for your extraordinary rvd adsh. as a cup o
yo ntnerst step beginning the process of removing sudan from from the state sponsor of terrorism list. ambassador williamson and i was serving with him when it was a commission in geneva and he led the effort on getting the focus on genocide being committed in darf darfur. he makes a point in his testimony that we must make that determination purely on the merits, not till there's some other political considerations. it sounds like that's the process you're going to pursue. i would like to hear you say in your open words or further elaboration. secondly, churches play a key role, perhaps even a sprawl role in the provision of humanitarian and development aid and in in promotg ogmeating crises. wi t fthas sect i e w republic of southern sudan, if that's what emerges here, receive a significant amount of money toe immediately have a high impact on health
care delivery and the bashir have skimmed upwards of $9 billion. is that true? what do we know about that? finally, i mentioned in my opening about the 35,000 southerners who remain in the north in forced servitude. in the mid-1990s, i held a hearing on slavery in sudan. was roundry criticized when i had it. but we brought out the point and i even had a mother who told the harrowing story of how they broke into her home it, stole her son, kidnapped her son, gave him an islamic name and then he became part of a slavery regime. what are we doing about that? . >> thank you very much, congressman. on the first question, with regard to the state sponsors of terrorism. first and foremost, they have to meet all the conditions under that law.
so it has to be on the merits of that. but secondary, we've also said that the final step has to be in the contempt of their also meeting the conditions of the cpa. sot'fitndforemosts they he met os criteria and then second, when we would take a step would be when they've also, if they meet all those criteria, that it would also have to meet the criteria under the cpa. on churches, i don't know the exact plans but i will say this, they play an extraordinarily important role in southern sudan, as you know. and they have been very important in conflict resolution and i think they'll play a major role in the development side. there's no question that one of the elements of society -- i'll just take a second to say something that has bothered me about the peace process. it's not been terribly transparent.
it's been carried on between two parties but civil society hasn't been brought in very much. i think now as we move forward, there must be much broader transparency and involvement of civil society in what comes next and that very much includes the churches. on the 9 billion, i've seen the accusation. i han't seen proof so i can't say. on slavery, it's a very, very bitter memory for people who suffered that. that includes some people in the abiya area. clearly, t may an leavate that problem and other security steps. but clearly that has to go. if it exists anymore. but the memory is there and i know people who have spoken to me about the bitterness they feel about it. >> finally let me ask one final quell with my time. are there sufficient resources sable at the unacr within our
own government to assist the southerners in the north to register them to mitigate the incidents of retaliation? what kind of numbers are we talking about in terms of funds? >> the southern sudan government talks about another 500,000 or up to 500,000 people coming. so that would be another 350,000. we have made it a very, very strong part of our diplomacy with the north that no retaliation or violence takes place against the southerners in the north. we have backed them on this over and over and over again and so far, that's been -- they've respected that. and they claim they will eis sll anmportconsideration. now, unhcr is just beginning really now that it has access to start register people.
there are sficient stocks of emergency supplies to handle people when they come south, let's say to get three months supply of food its. the problem is, how well these people can be inte integrated for long-term development. me of them aren't farmers, et cetera. this is sthung we very under discussion with the government southern sudan. that to me is becoming the most serious challenge. so far, we've been able to work in the north without any retaliation against those people. >> thank you so much. so please yield to the gentleman from the new jersey, my good friend, congressman sears. >> thank you, madame chair. congratulations. baad lyman, as i listened to you, i sense hope in your voice. that this is going towh y ,cu
to the committee, i'm not as optimistic. there's no from structure no way of feeding. there's a referendum in the country. what can we -- what steps can we take to continue to encourage the peace and i worry when you split this country, we don't have a good experience in contemporary. the tensions are still there. and i worry when all this money comes in to try to help, i look at haiti and the atlantic infrastructure. sorry, but you sound optimistic, t i'm not as optimistic as you are. i do hope that we can continue have so ma yrs war that i doe p do hope that this leads to peaceful in the future.
s ? you caught me on a good week. a couple months ago i was much less optimistic. i'm very encouraged this referendum has come off and what i think it signifies for the future. look, there are several different peace problems. one is peace in the south itself. where there have been clashes in the past. proxy supported by the north, et cetera. now, we are working hard to build up their security capability. by that, i mean their ability to you manage conflict to manage local issues, communicate better coordinate better, et cetera. lots of people are -- lots of countries alon training people, et cetera. president kir has promised a very inclusive political process in the future for a new constitution in the south. he must follow that path. otherwise, there will be dissension and there will be
trouble. thrise to the challen but think it's going a good long suge. the he d continuing tensions that will exist from time to time between the north and the south. one of the points we've emphasized so much to both sides in the lastew months is don't support proxies. that is, that the north doesn't support proxes in the south and vice versa, that the south doesn't support s r o keeping peace and they've got to resolve their tensions in other ways. i think that the hope for peace in the area comes from their inevitable interdependence whether it's in the oil sector, it's the trade sector, et cetera. both sides need each other right now. and both sides now are not
interested in going back to war. and if we can build on that and ing toe rfect d tre are going to be crisis ando at gus i'm more tist now than i was a few months ago. >> and the other issue that i have concern is, you talked about the oil. obviously the oil in the south. and the north is going to feel that they have been excluded of this wealth. how are they going to just -- i just don shem sttg back and saying, well, you have this referendum. you keep oil. and i'll stop the water from going south. >> actually, the leverage is greater because all the pipelines to export the oil are in the north. >> okay. >> so what they've had to do and the norwegians have been extremely helpful in laying out all the complexities of how two countries with shared resources
can work out a fair coenti. during t cpa, they split the oil revenues 50/50 but that was temporary. now there's a question of whether the south will keep that ratio, whether theyl pay a fee for the use of the pipelines, et cetera. those are the details they've got to work out. now, but they kind of need each other on the oil. the other thing which is very important, again, we're grateful to the norwegians for this analysis, that oil isn't that great. >> over the next five years, it will decline substantially in output. both sides have to develop an economy that is less dependent on oil. and that's an important reason for them to turn their attention away are war. >> thank you very much. into thank you. the gentleman's time is expired. the chairman designate of the oversight and investigation subcommittee, mr. roabheof lirn. >> thank you very much, madame
chairman, and mr. ambassador, what's the population of sudan both north and south? >> oh, i was afraid you were going to ask me that. there's about 8 million in the south and what in the north? >> 38 million overall thanks to rich. 3 million overall, about less than a third in the south. >> i'll tell you when i worked in the white house, he had all the answers, as well. i just want you to knowthat. so 38 million all together. and how much have we spent in sudan? >> since the cpa, overall for all expenditures, peacekeeping and everything else, we've spent $10 billion. >> how much? >> 10 billion. >> we spent $10 billion. >> much of that for peacekeeping and relief because of the wars and the displacement its. >> is that just us or is that the overall heas en
spent then? we spent 10 billion. how much have the other philanthropists of the world spent? >> the peacekeeping they contribute to a formula in the u.n., the formula they always contribute to. >> right. >> on the economic side, i know, for example, the other donors have been doing about $700 million a year in the south. >> uh-huh. >> i don't have the figures for what they're doinging in darfur. i can try and get those for you. >> but your guesstimate wod be that we are the biggest contributor and almost 50% of what's been spent? >> we are clearly the largest donor. i'll try and get you more accurate percentages. >> what fortuitous day for you to beestifying because president hu from china has just arrived. i was
eshauay contrited to this efort. >> well, the chinese, of course, as members of the security council pay whatever their share is of peacekeeping costs as permanent members of the security council. they also have begun a development program in the south. they also contribute a fair number of peacekeepers to the u.n. peacekeeping force. we don't contribute soldiers. they do. >> right. >> they have -- some engineering companies, et cetera, in the peacekeeping operation. they are, of course, as you know, big investors in the oil industry in sudan. >> right. and they've -- but you don' know what they've spent, and i think that's signica bause it's my understanding that the chinese perhaps are beneting greatly by their association withhe government in the north and its? >> there's no question that oil
has been a successful investment for them. now that the oil lies largely in the south, they understand they have to develop relationships in the south as well and they are beginning development promise, road programs, health programs its in the south. >> let me just note that -- first of all, did the -- do you believe that the chinese have played a positive role in sudan? is that what you would tell us today, that by and lae, chinese have played a positive role there over the years? >> i think they're playing a more positive role now than they played before to be perfectly i think they were very resistant to sanctions on sudan. and so there's a history there. >> and -- excuse me one moment. they are opposed to those sanctions because they had a direct relationship with the tough guys who are running the country. isn't that right? >> yeah. >> and the guy who's signed contracts for who gets to benefit from the oil?
>> there's no question about that. now more recently, and they do most of their diplomacy behind the scenes. they don't work in concert with the rest of us envoy who's meet l e time. they have done some facilitation he peacekeeping side. they contributed peacekeepers and they have been supportive now of the referendum process. they've been openly supportive of that. isa,do more in the south. >> i've only got about 30 sends left. let me just note that we are entering a n era. government. we can no longer afford to have atarilyian and a half dollar deficit. we figured entirely if we are going to belion dollars in a corrupt with 38 million people, $0 billion for 38 million people and see that perhaps another country perhaps
an adversary like china is benefiting greatly from our investment. those are the things we need to pay attention to. and we will be. thank you, madame carom. >> thank you so much. because the ranking member had given his time to mr. payne, now mr. payne is recognized as the ranking member designate of the africa global health and human i'm doing better under this uer late >> let me continue i think on the china discussion. as you indicated, china was very, very noninlv, as you know, and there were several meetings that were held with the chinese, the congressional black caucus actually met with the ambassador and kind of had a pretty tough meeting with them and they asked for a second meeting. they had never been in darfur.
they were still selling weapons. they just had no interest in the problems of sudan. i had the opportunity to go to n command of thof china asked a question. i asked ghall once again about thdo. since then, as you've mentioned, they've september people to darfur. they'vein u. think china will react and do you think they will be a true neutral party as this process moves forward? >> i think the chinese will have -- you know, i don't want to speak for them really b ey have a stake in the oil sector. they have a stake that those are inese companies that own a good deal of the infrastructure as well as their share in the oil industry. they're very concerned about
that. they want to make sure that the two entities on oilcourse, from t of supply. i'm pleased that they've begun development programs in the south. i think that's very important. i think we need every donor we can to help in the south. how they will progress in their relationship between the two, it's a little hard for me to predict. obviously they will want to have relations in both countries to pursue their interests. >> now, in the south, the south has the potential of a great agricultural program if they get going. at one time, sudan was the breadbasket for all of africa and with the oil. are we looking at developin helping them develop that
agricultural sector as we move forward? and secondly, what does khartoum have left? what would their major resources be? are they industrializing and manufaurg? >> there it was a conference in nairobi some months ago which the u.s. was a major participant, immigration was there and others just on agricultural development in th o south. it will have to be a focus. they have the potential but it's not being realized at all. so that has to be a major part of their economic development. no question about it. you go t frts and from uganda. you know the potential isn't being realized. in the north,hey too have to develop the agricultural sector. they import a lot of food which they shouldn't. and they are nowuin re attention to the food sector knowing oil revenues are going to go down, that they very
extraordinary economic potential. they're getting investments from arab countries in the agriculture sector. i think that's going to be one of the major areas they look to, as well. tnkou there's a lot of new technology on getting water out of the desert now and that should be -- i have agreed to yield the blaeps of my time back to the rampging memb i hanking member who i think has a question he would like to ask. >> i thank you, mr. payne. and you, madame chairman. i justwa thank you, ambassador. i was sitting here thinking i came to congress 28 years ago. it you you were a key figure in the africa bureau at that time during some incredible times, the fight against apartheid. the other conflicts in africa going on. the role you played there and later on as ambassador tore south ai and the new south
africa. in southeast asia and in africa, former soviet union, the places you worked there. your role before that at aid, assistant secretary for io serving both republican and democratic prsint you really do give the term "diplomat" a great name with your stellar service that you would come out of the academic world, i don't know if that's retirement, but to take this on is a great tribute to you. thank you. >> thank you so much, mr. chairman. >> you're very kind, congressman. thank you so much. >> i'm employeesed to yield to the chairman designate of the terrorism nonproliferation and trade subcommittee, mr. royce of california. >> ambassador lyman, do youave a longti
struggling wit on the continent of africa. and we have many ngos who are here today, as well. one of the things that comes with that experience of long being engaged with these types of regimes is it gives did you an important historical check on your assumptions going forward. and in particular in dealing with khartoum. which has broken promise after promise. when dealing with somebody like bashir who is in power not cae's peem h's in power because he is ruthless. en looking at that situation, and i've seen firsthand the result of that ruthlessness. in sudan in, darfur, sudan, i
remember we had a night line" camera crew we took in to interview some of the survivors of an attack. and i remember a town, tinay, that had been bombed from the air. that was not an talk by the john u we. i enter interviewing a young man who had lost his hand. he had lost his hand to the john. >> you we but with his other hand he was able to draw pictures his other kids estovs had their village and of mechanized armor which was from the khartoum government there to support the jan. >> you we'd i t attack. so in okg ts, the ngo community i think is very hesitant lug to reach assumptions that all is going to end well.
in one particular regard, there is an issue ta all of us are concerned about and it has to do with that issue of the state sponsor of terrorism list because joseph coney of the resistance army could not have abducted 0,000 children and abused so many over the last 20 years andiloldiers ou armaments he got from khartoum. and without being able to send his fighters up to khartoum to be patched up without the ppt atehad. they didn't allow people to go into south sudan to take him out. when we had the opportunity to do it. soap the eson i have is have you made it very clear to khartoum that any support from -- for the lra would prevent them fromei taken off the terrorism list and
basically that for you, this is a red line? that's my question. >> i can say categorically we have said that any support of them by proxies or other such entities would preclude our following through on that. >> very good. >> and in general, i would say in dealing with the regime, the way forward is for them to understand that this is the way for them to go forward because it's worst for them if they don't in terms of peace in, terms of any thoughts of tocal d and we havth years, between '94 sudan is the only documented supporter for the lra. and we have a u.n. report in november, last november, that
lra commanders reached out to sudan's military in darfur for support. we don't know much more than that other than that happened. but i guess my last question is, what the state department certify to congress that there are no links between the government in khartoum and the lra before taking them off the terrorism list? i guess that's a little harder question. >> it is a harder question. i'll get you a definitive answer because i have to talk to people who do that kind of analysis. i can tell you this. i have discussed personally and i snow generalgration has the lra with the government mand it very clear that any support with the lra would be -- that's a horrific group. >> the note of horrific group probably on the planet and the fact that the khartoum government would support it --
ambassador lyman, thank you for your service. tnkousomu the gentleman from m good friend mr. rivera. >> than chairman. ambassador, in our administration's enthusiasm to engage local authorities and roll out basic materials and services as a conflict mitigation strategy, having appropriate safeguards to prevent waste, fraud and abuse been implemented? >> one of the things we're working on most is intensely with the government of the south which is where most of our development assistance is going is exactly that. that is to get good financial controls, good budgetcontrols. et cetera and we don'ton thugth government without kd of assurances. so we're watching that very closely. this is a young government in the south. and getting better ntrols better financial controls is one of the top priorities.
also doing that at the state level because resources have to be sent down to the state level. so we're working with the state governments in the south to make sure they have those controls in place. anwe wilcoinue to do that. >> thank you very much, mr. ambassador. a couple other questions. what is the sat us of the scr subpoena fly away teams that have been deployed to south sudan and what are they doing exactly? >> those teams areas throuout e south. whether there are conflicts developing in the south, whether the state governments are capable of dealing with them so that proper assistance and responses can be made. it's kind of a -- it's kind of an extended outreach for the united states to know what's happening out there. to make sure that the potential for conflict in the south which
are serious, are being addressed, that we know what's happening, that he informationh'v b effective over the last couple of months. >> what types of program funds are they administering? to what end are they supplementing directly? are they employing contractors ording su i'm notd .. other programs to then help with those states and help in their security. the fly away teams are information-gathering teams. >> a few governs questions. is the administration planning to certify that an elected government has taken office to juifevy vi restrictions on u.s. assistance to sudan under section 67,08 of the state foreign operations and
related appropriations act of 2010 as carried rw >> they will not be fully independent until july and we have to have a legislation with the congress that would authorize the assistance to that entity. we don't have to do it right away because independence becomes official at the end of the cpa. >> will the secretary of the treasury be moving to make such a certification to provide debt relief to the regime? >> debt relief, there are sanctions against supporting debt relief, and it depends how the debt is divided also between se the debt is assumed by the south and they become an independent entity, and i would want to consult with the congress closely on this, we could support the south in doing that, but any general debt relief assuming that the north carries much of that debt, there are sanctions, and they would
have to be removed for us to support action on debt relief mer the north. yield back the >> thank you very much. expiredd like to yield for our last -- no, we still have one more. the gentleman from ohio, the chairman designate of the subcommittee on middle east and south asia, and thanks for subbing this weefor me. >> happy to do it, madam chairwoman. hay do that, and you are loved down there and there's no question about that. >> [inaudible] >> we appreciate filling in for you. mr. ambassador, thank you for your time here this afternoon. i know you answered a lot of ve not referendum ands just a assuming that it goes the way that virtually everyone bieves thit wl a the ve the ut i to essential succeed,
but could you discuss again what mechanisms are expected to take place relative to the oil revenues and wealth sharing and that sort o tngnhe diuted area >> the two entities face some choices on how to handle the management of thege o think thao happen, but that's one option out there. another is to have the south take an equity position in the infrastructure in the north so they are part owner as well in and the economics works out that way. a third option is simply for the south to pay a fee for transporting the oil through the pipelines, and there were a number of variations on this all of which of what limited
knowledge ia o ts ld t iredeilorhewo paie they will choose among these potential ways of cooperating, and then the political decisi isowu desthohay thnoh? ishe premium for peace to put is bluntly in what they pay, and that's the political side of the negotiation. on the other issues, there are working groups on all the other issues looking at them technically. for example, currency. if both countries move to a new currency, how do they do it very carefully not to destabilize the other because you can do that. they agreed in principle they won't destabilize each other, but then the question is what's the timing? how do they do it in a proper way? there's a working group on that. similarly on borders, there's a working group, although the decionare very polic. ther are five dispute borer
area mt of toer age,ut fe ars diste it, and they haven't agreed on how to solve the dispute, and that's now a major issue to be resolved. >> thank you, and then another area, mr. ambassador, when i was here for 14 years and then gone the last two so i'm behind on some things, but i've been to the darfur region on two trips, one to the refugee camps in sudan and then the camps in chad, and at the time, things seemed to be simmering down somewhat to the extent that the attacks had been shall we say limited to where they had been previously and although many people were still in the camps, has there been progress in people moving out the camps and into the villages or is it too dangerous in most places for that to occur? >> again, i apologize because
darfur is not in my brief. i don't have a lot of details. ere wasiolence rently between the south african sudan armed forces and one of the rebel groups, but i refer to general when he's here and dane smith to give you an accute up today. darfur'm n asharp on. >> that's fine. thank you very much. i yield back my time. >> the gentleman from pennsylvania, mr. mariono yields his time, and we're thanking you so much because we're short on time. thank you very much, mr. ambassador for your time. get back to work. we'll shoe you out of there, and i'm welcoming ambassador richard
williamson to the panelist table and give you the briefest of introduction and gentlemen, i am going to be ruthless with my gavel because we want to get to the question and answer period, so as you settle in, let me introduce you. ambassador williamson served as the president's special enjoy for sudan and as the u.s. representative to the united human rights commison ere he essed for the adoption resolution condemning the resolution of darfur with the 10th anniversary of jencide in rwanda. welcome, and i know your book is here floating aut, a omar ishmael. you are much loved in stopping
jencide andass atrocities. you were born in darfur, but forced to flee sudan in 1989. thanks, gentlemen, both for being here. i'll gavel you down so we can gent to questions an answe. >> tha you very much, madam chairperson, and congratulations on that. good to seeanking memr berm aga,nd he t note don payne spent more time on this and we're all in his debt, and as congressman smith said, we've all worked together in the past. it's good to be here again. start with the fact there's been marginalization for 200 years resulting in discrimination economically, educationally, health, politically, and in justice. that permeates the country
creating unstability, and the south is only a small part of the story. second, we have to recognize that unfortunately in sudan, it's too common that the political leaders feel comfortable resorting to violence as aegimeay rsir pal jeiv denge in atrocities, and thirdly, we have to recognize the nature of the reme ve a sni men eun ople deserveost of the credit. th international community, u.s. brockers, cpa, president bush, and while i've criticized president obama and h administration, teydeserve credit f the initiative the last four months in the diplomatic surge that was helpful, but the vote is not the end of the story. it may not even be the beginning of the end of the story. the contested border areas of
the oil revenue sharing in citizens share are not just the headlines of issues. it is the fundamental dispute which over six years havebeen isesnthn hest years, cablocked thwiding the initiative of little progress that's been made. for my experience is the cpa, theege preaes mmments. lo a jus t cp th aged to abide by the avenue you border commission. the south accepted it and the north refused. eygreed to abide b e arbitrion, the permanent arbitration court in the hague in its determination of the border. that pcess wnt frward. the ut aepd . the north rused,anhe prk
a of the north agreed to demobilize their militias, and they did not. they committed to transparency in oil revenue sharing and accounting. they did not. it is important to recognize that incentives alone are in adequate. promises are illusory, and incentives without steel or some sort of coercion have proven a failure in the past, and they will let down the ppl sudan again. undeying this, whais the u.s. goal in 2005? it was, in part, the separation, and we paid for that. it would be overpaying now to saythecausehainglynd perfecyn a delayed manner and cost many lives that we should now be overly generous for the performance of commitment made.
demarginal decision continues, the justices continue, the atrocities continue the week before the vote began in the referendum. 18 bombs dropped in the south and the u.n. verified they were from the sudan armed forces, and the south is not the only area subjected to this. darfur canno be serated. weshldot rshtogi nets the nine neighbors in china have t been hpf, but we've reached a tipping point where they see separation is going to happen. they have been helpful, butan do more. the administration tried to encourage it. they should. there's an enormous development challenge, but it has to have burden sharing in the european union and others have to increase the paicipation. i am cncerned about a process that begins in a litany of incentives before performance,
before specific agreements, before verification mechanisms are put in place, before there's monitored results. as ronald reagan used to say, trust but verify. i am concerned about it, and i fear once again the pseudothese people will be denied what they deserve. thank you. >> thank you. mr. isael. >> thank you to the team members of your committee. i'll get down to it. the united states has a crucial role to play in establishing peace and stability in sudan from this moment forward. the southerners have come out. they count their vote. th are in t ci tir desty ic i gointo b the separation of the mother country of sudan, but as everybody agrees including president obama
and in the "new york times" that their work is just beginning. the united states should capitalize on this curren mont. danadessesh ucl ises to establish peace and stability in all of sudan and the neighboring countries in the region. first, the relationship between north and south lands must be clarifie bor sufcit pati tesla iu. thinlvhe aoperations of the nord south, as well as conserving the border areas. without agreement on these issues and among the leadership of both governments, it has the potential to spark conflict. it must beeprioritized and a peace processas trickled along for years while violence intensified in recent weeks. now is the time to revitaliz the peace process, one that
inched along for years with very limited effect in the ground in darfur. at a time when political changes will be underfoot in both the north and south, the u.s. should press government sources and exclusive governments to ensure that peace in sudan both in north and the south. sharing oil revenues, the currency, citizenship, border, and the other issues are crucial, but until now, the international community has been content to let the sudan forces to make difficult decisions and peaceful transitions. with in, the u.s. should jump start mediation. ere's pea ocessha oded the c prk. th sda gerent august unvailed its own strategy that would nationalize the political forces and focus on the
retaining development and implementaon locay. weelieve ts plans not only oblematic, but that it hides the government true intention of seeking a military solution in darfur. we believe the way forward is for the u.s. to help disive rwd map to cuea in darf bed a sund diagnosis of why efforts to date have fallen short of the mark. this requires and constructive participation by the europeans, china, and the original actorsment finally, the u.s. should capitalize on the south that presents for both the north and the south and the forces that the unid stes shldstnglyupport a specifically mandate uer thel ar consultation in the border
states investing sociy grpsnd dependon ices, political development,nd other building blocks to have a more democratic future. other steps the u.s. can take to prevent conflict in sudan. in the south, weee a a place filled wh potentia in the interest of the united states to help lay the foundation for good government and invest in jail constitutions and government building. the investment of astrong rlment a instuons that dever svices, sha per, and transparently administer tax on oil renue is key to the peace insun. as te itedtaov towards -- forward to ensure the two sudans separate, but find the commonground to sustain peace in the corer of the world, we must do what we can do deliver on theromises. thank you, madam chair.
>> tnk you, you have proven you can be brillntnd distinct. i yield my time. >> by the way, what years were you at the human rights united nations commission? >> it was 2004 i think it was. >> i wasthe tat 8 d rly0s wkior your predecessor. >> i was assistant secretary at the time and he was working for indhould continue to put pressure on the island prison. >> thank you, and thank you for those words a yur srve. thesctoheoaap puua tthro m este t administration is poised to remove sudan from the state sponsors of terrorism list and high-level visits, exchange ambassadors, ease sanctions, and have debt relief in exchange for
meeting obligations urpdz the peace agreement. united states leverage with regard to darfur would be reserved to lifng sctns that cnobe remed thout relief. in yurpiondotha outh nconnd w leverage does the united states have with regard to darfur in pursuing this course? fi a gneric obsvaon, ngressn. the less the regime, the more desired, a those raise the legitimacy and it's beyond whatever economic benefit or whatever other benefits goes to their legitimacy within sudan d outside. second as i noted earlier, im concerned about being too anxious to provide incentives.
remember the comprehensive peace agreement was agreed to six years ago when i was special enjoy. it was my view after meeting with the leaders often, meetings that drew the criticism from senators, obama, biden, and clinton that they had already made a decision at the time they signed cpa that they may have to give up the south. i've noted all the difficult issues that matter have not been resolved. we have a long way to go beyond the six month period when separation becomes official before we know if those commitments will be made, and i also know from my various positions in government there's a bureaucratic momentum witness you start the press -- once you start the process and again to cepridentean, us b ri.
h toeeo. ith sweden and the united nations on the responsibility to protect. he suggested darfur is excluded from obligations inferred from the responsibility to protect because the im were mmteprrtadti o e wldsuitutme cuntin 25. at your psiononhi doe the it natisha esponsily to protect marginalized populations in sudan in the event that the regime decides to crush all remaining opposition following a vote for independence in southern sudan? >> i think the general responsibility to protect eced t mleiusuit tces dumented 2005. furtheor i thi when you lo at the genocide in slow motion that continued after the adoption of that document, it is important for the united states and the international community
to step up to its responsibility. let me note, i'm loathed to ever disagree with ambassador lyman who i have great respect for, but in this case, i do think we have a responsibility. i noted that as recently as two weeks ago, they were involved in bombings in the south. they been involved in bombings in darfur. they continue to engage in coordinated attacks. it isless intense only because there's fewer targets of opportunity. this sulbe ncn. 'sothe lksf theor andou or t difficulties in the mountains. we have to be more robust and those violions of pt agements ha occurred, innocent ves have die and there's been a reluctance in the thesestration to hold
atrocities. >> thank you very much, i appreciate your service and good to see you after 20 years. >> so pleased to yield to the ranks member designate of africa global health and humanrits, mrpae of w jery. >> tha y vy much. t m ayo aut this ism ismail, what do you think the rights of return for the people of darfur, has the government thought of my plan i fe for sme aeasto ha aight to rtu? r pele to ve iefee camp for now until the next generation is ong, so iwod evenike s sanctions held until the government comes up with a plan of the right of
people to return tohe propti. >> i couldn't agree more, mr. payne. because the government of sudan had put every obstacle in the way of peace in darfurandhey caot retu day t t regime, to the ple of origin because a, there is nothing there. after it's been burned and all the infrastructure there to support life was destroyed during that attacks, and again, the reason because most of the areas were occupied by people who in some reports were seen they don't belong to sudan, let along belonging to darfur and being citizens of darfur. number three, the violence still continues, and until today, counter to the agreement, the agreement of the deployment of the u.n. troops, the government of sudan is still putting
obstacles in front of the u.n. troops that are supposed to protect these people and supposed trodeaf hen r ospelehore wli tu vunritoetn eir areas. yes, the sanctions remain until daat issue is at y ambassador williamson, i remember meeting you the flames were still smoldering. what is your take on the east? we know little about the east, and as we know, there are problems there. how do you see the government moving forward with the problem in the east, with the separation of the south? will there be panicking? ll t etdedet
oupah smeres ait e veme a d meinpeapth pped in dfu en at ban congressman p. i think relevant to that is what has been the u.s. policy goal, a bipartisan policy goal in sudan? it's to bring sustainable peace, state, and justice, justice that's been denied due to marginal decision, and you're correct in the east as well as in darfur, the mountains, and in the south, they have been victims of those injustices, and if there's dismemberment of sudan, and the south is independent next july, you still have the root cause of injustes that wl not be addresse a i a loath to be too generous until those issues are dealt with for those whoaveuecdto olces llsth
juic a ihi t instability and traumas will continue both in the east as well as in the west. secondly, congressman, there's a lot of talk about the stress that's going to be on the north after separation if it comes. i acknowledge that that's true. there will be people that say the government's lost aggressively in darfur or overreach, but there also will be stress in the south. political, competition has been suppress the because of a unity to try to move to cpa implementation and i would suggest to you that the competition unleashed in the next six months, in t next 12 nths wille vere and it will be difficult for the government of sudan to be consistent in concessions
especially those not meritorious, and we have to be mindful of that as well. >> thank you. it was said that a hrk arir should be indicted. where do you think that's going? >> i'm concerned that president bush who opposed the icc was a stronger supporter of the regime than this administration has been. >> thank you very much. chairman designate smith of the africa global health and human rights subcommittee. >> gentlemen, thankou rour teimony d adersh "n yk mes" repte a pieros of bitterness in a region threaten the by sudan's future in the "new york times" on january 15. they talked about how most people are armed to the teeth. my question first is where have all those ak-47s gone that we
believe the chinese government helped to facilitate well in excess of 147,000. are they there? are we being too optimistic of a peaceful transcigs here or what? >> i think, congressman, if you are dealing with sudan, you have to have a fault of optimism to deal with such a difficult issue, so i have no fault there, but as you know, if it's human rights first, if it's a small arms commission of the u.n., the documentation of chinese small arms has been irrefutable, and we can assume there's credible rertofhelow othe arms dn ito rgions ne the boer directed and it's a matter of great concern. i think asongresanae said w weogethein ab you
and where charred homes remained and then 50,000 people were living under torn sheets in the rainy season when you can't walk without mud up to you know ankles. the tragedy goes on. it goes on because of the oil. the vote was good, but the tough issues lie ahead. >> yes. >> the weapons are there and the violence is stark at the moment. you might have heard the project that it was launche and they are in to show what is happening so stay tuned. also, the small arms survey and other open sources are saying 55,000 of the 105,000 standing army of sudan are in the area or
around. if that is not a spark that's going to start something, i don't know what is. we have toe vigint a wrk rd to evt th from happing. >> tha you.av any recommendations on how to liberate them from the bondage they live in in the north? also on debt $35 billion to other countries like saudi arabia and kuwait, and also about $2 billion in the u.s.. when the administration talks about the road map, could you again say whether or not you believe because debt is certainly a part of that, lifting the designation as a state sponsor of tear other and other issues obviously are in there as well, could you speak to that road map if you would? how comfortable either of you are with it, and finally just --
i ran out of time. go ahead on those issues. >> i ll srtith toa ma in dfuasel as inhe wn asou know, all the issues we're talking about are real issues. the border and as far as the south is concerned the debt and citizenship. if you listen, they are going to be stripped of -- and i don't know how you define those living and how about dual citizenship, something the government giving to itself. some ministers in the government of sudan today, they hold other pos ports from different countries including this to s wy, and they areog ai i sudan as such to have that relationship. i don't understand that.
we have to work hard in these issues, and we have to revitalize and support the remediation and have some high level people involved in this because that is going to be violent in darfur. >> thank you. >> quickly, congressman, the most important thing with the slave tragedy is being very vigorous to push the rule of law which doesn't exist. it'still the le of psition and power,nd second, shining ght on it, tt'sthbe siecntumig abuses that the united states should engage in speaking out against more aggressively. >> thank you very much. e gtlan fm mssri. >> thank you, and let me say congratulations again. we look forward to working with you in this new congress and with your leadership, and thank you for holding this timely and
important hearing. i really wanted to focus my time, and again acknowledge this ref referendum. i think it is a cause for hope. the international community, escially the african comiewnian and the comprehensive key agreement were facilitate tores in the referendum. with all multilateral engagements they were met with criticism, but i'd like to ask our two panelists here why it's important for the u.s. to continue to engage in these international organizations to leverage the work in sudan. what have been some of the tangible benefits so far, and how might we going forward mix mize these -- maximize these collaborative efforts, and if we could start
with ambassador willmson please. >> thank you, congressman. if we look at sudan, tere's a long history of various multilat rail mechanisms making a contribution. the idea of processingist of seven european and african countries, the chunk of the united states, britain, and rw, we themiife of the ac aeent since then, there's been multilateral efforts with respect to peace keeping, first the african forces, and then the u.n. forces in the south and west. they have not stopped violence. they can't. they don't have the capacity. the areas are too big, but they crowded out the space for vims and given some window for peace negotiations and discussions. i think you can also look at the stance where it's been an international effort to the sudan con cosh yum. i think that congressman will
probably raise it about the burdens sharing the u.s. that clearly made a disproportionate situation and involved many other countries, many other countrying taking the lead, and there have been -- and to the degree there's been success whether in darfur or in the south, the unsung heros are the humanitarian ngo organizations. their workers who are from sudan and other countries from all over the wlnd tsun tialhoal ptipa inhre risking their own lives. it's a collective effort. u.s. deserving note not only for its lead on the humanitarian
assistance and its pivotal role and there's many others who helped it along through organizations and other mechanisms. >> thank you, ambassador. mr. ismail. >> thank you, mr. congressman, and i thank the united states to benefit a lot from this in sudan. each country as it snds today bordering nine countries. if you just consider the western country of chad, it is an extension of sudan and put nigeria into the equation, you find that about 125 million people living in and around sudan. as sudan unravels, this will baf
darfur into chad. e the ited statespent ith soh, they are,oday,ve billionthat the it stateis spending in darfur to keep about 3.5 million displaced alive. that is a huge burden. if sudan was left to its own devices, and we haveen viens of those dilled before anin the south, only god knows how much we are going to spend to keep these people alive in refugee camps, not in the safety of their homes. >> thank you, i yield back. >> thank you so much. >> thank you very much, madam chairman, and baad wiiaonasig. wld le tos ltl t the disproportionate contribuon thae united states is making not only in
sudan, but this exempt mys the crisis around the world. if there's anything the last election should have told the re of the world, it is united stes can no longer afforto do this. we are going broke, and once our economy is broken by this irresponsibility that we've had, then we won't be able to help no one, not our own people or other people in crisis. the world needs to take that into consideration, notice it, and plan their future proporon natie i suggest that that is not to say that in sudan and other places that we've seen these horrible tragedies take place, the heart rending murder of innocent people, we care about that, but we can no longer
afford to carry as big of a burden as we have, and what makes it worse perhaps and ambassador williamson, you seem a bit pessimistic that after this $10 billion of investment that we've made that we will actually succeed. it's a rough road to go. let me ask you, is the road map that has been set down, do you consider that to be adequate? and if it is adequate, has it been een forced and -- enforced and followed, or do we need the road map will not succeed because it does not address the issues that need to be addressed? >> congressman, if i could make a few points that i think are relevant. first, it's noteworthy that when the regime came to power, exports and then it agree in
2008 from the oil which is why the oil is crucial. second, with that sort of money coming in, the government of sudan who designed the genocide in darfur as of the end of 2008, their total contribution to the humanitarian needs of the people in darfur was $30 million. i think that's not relevant to the considerations of how much faith we should have. secondly, china gets 6% of its imported oil. they have now tipped to where they understand it's in their interest to have stability and they should step up more for humanitarian assistance. the larger question in humanitarian assistance is beyond my per view. it's up to the 345 of you and
100 across the way to make those decisions ultimately, but i do think there is an impulse in america that is worthy, that is part of our mission that recognizes whether it's human rights, humanitarian assistance, we have an obligation to step up, but we should be ugh minded about it and get others to step up too in ese times of economic pearl, and finally on the road map, on good days i'm optimistic, but my experience teaches me to be skeptical and cynil, and i think the tlkf stis witutheal ercionwiouth tlk o steel, without the talk of being tough is a matter of great concern as was said. diplomacy without coercion is like sheets of music without instments.
andno amnt o humanitarian , you know, assistance is going to increase the standard of living for anybody for any length of time unless it is accompanied by a democracy and a change in craer of gi that's capabofth tyof violcehat yhave just described, isn't that correct? >> yes, congressman, it's important to notice not just in the south do they have 80% of the revenue, but they have other resources and among the richest agriculture land anywhere outside of illinois. >> is that right? let me know before my time runs out in a moment, which is if we are going to help people in the future and they he this poteial wealth that exists, it is n wrong to suggest we are going to help you in the crisis, but we expect to be paid back one way or another.
>> thank you. the gentleman from ohio. >> thank you, madam chair. couple questions brfl coul yo dcu the roles of both the african union and the arab league and all things we're talking about here this afternoon and what do you anticipate it will be in the near future? >> quickly, my experience is it's been uneven. the african union understandably is worried about countries being split. there are only two african countries with two ethnic groups mo of them have multiple oups. they are coerned about a con they gent as are the nine neighbors, but now that they understand this, they have played a more constructive role. the arab league was unhelpful as was the african union on questions of accountability, but they have been helpful on some of the development issues and better in particular should be
singled out in the mission of foreign affairs for their extoured their leadership in trying to get instructive discussions going on darfur, so could they have done more? yes. shld the he doneore? in my opinn, s. doeis they h done more? absolutely, but they have made contributions and more lately than they did a few years ago. >> okay. thank you. and then, finally, what can we do to ensure that the corruption which is endemic in much of africa doesn't take root, although there's corruption in southern sudan, but doesn't thrive in what soon may be africa's newest country? >> transparency, transparency, transparency. second, train a amount of people to run the agencies and departments, the newly
independent southern sudan, and third, some good green eye shades from outside donors and others to monitor. ultimately as congressman indicated, if there is, in fact, a democratic process of accountability, that is a useful and often determinative aspect in fighting corruion. >> thank you. madam chair, i yield back my time. >>hank you very muc thank you to the presters. than you to ou panel is and great members. tomorrow at 10:30 in this room we'll have a briefing on china, and with that, this briefing is adjourned. thank you, gentlemen. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] naib cveatns >> the house committee held a committee today on the relationship between medical
malpractice liability and health care costs. many republicans argued in the debate over repealing the health care law that malpracticeclaims could reduce the cost of health care. this is disputed by many democr welcome, everybody. i appreciate the members here as well as our witnesses, and it's nice to see so many people in the audience interest the in such an important subject as well. one quick announcement that most know, but not everybody is that we're expecting votes in 15 minutes. we're having two votes, however, taking a recess for 20 minutes, and then we'll return to resume the hearing. i'll recognize myself for an opening statement and turn to the ranking member for a statement as well. the purpose of the hears is to du t wte urea ca steaudefsi meci. is pcte occurs when doctors are forced by the threat
of lawsuits to conduct tests and prescribe drugs thatar n mecay qu coin aarrd unertyesrctu, 40% of medical malpractice lawsuits filed in thenid at ck edeefmecarror nyctl pienjury, but because there are so many lawsuits, doctors are forceed to conduct medical tests simply to avoid lawsuits. taxpayers pay for this wasteful medicine which adds to all our health care costs without improving the quality of patient care. a survey released last year found this is practiced by nearly all physicians. president obama, himself, acknowledged the harm caused by defensivemedicine ying, "i want to work to sca back the excessive defensive medicine that reenforces our current system and shift to a system where we are providing better care, simply rather than simply more treatment."
that the health care legislation he signed does nothing to prevent defensive medicine. in fact, it makes matters worse by allowing trial lawyers to opt out of any alternatives health care litigation proposed by the state and exposing doctors to more lawsuits if they fall short of any of the many new federal guidelines the law creates. the encouragement of lawsuit abuse will not only make medical care much more expensive, it will also drive more doctors out of business. the jew judiciary committee will consider alternative health care lawsuit reforms modeled on california's reforms which have been in effect for over 30 years. those reforms have a proven record of reducing defensive medicine, reducing health care costs, and increasing the supply ofoor there lreeor rfo athe fer lve many state supreme courts nullified provisions enacted by
state legislatures. in such states, this may be the only means of addressing the state's current crisis in medical professional liable and restoring patient's access to quality health care. further, federal legislation is needed 20 stem the flow of doctors from one state to other as th flee states to avoi accesveliability costs. doctors should feel free to practice medicine wherever they want, and paishes everywhere should be able to obligations -- obtain the care they need. last yearhe cgrsial dg oicecedh ul du t deficit by an estimated $54 billion over ten years, and that was a conservative estimate. another report estimates that premiums for medical malpractice insurance ultimately would be an average of 25%-30% below of what they would be under current law. the government accountability office found that rising
litigation awards are responsible for skyrocketing medical liability premiums. the report states. gao found losses on medical malpractice claims that make up the largest part of insurer's cost appear to be the primary driver of rate increases in the long run. the gao also concluded that profits are not increasing indicating that insurers are not charges and profiting from excessively high premium rates. the national commission on fiscal responsibility and reform created by president obama also supports health care litigation reform in its 2010 report. "many members of the commission believe that we should impose statutory caps on punitive and noneconomic damages, and we recommend that congress consider this approach and evaluate its impact." as "usa today" article
concluded, one clearing omission from the health care law was the significant tort reform which was opposed by trial lawyers. i look forward to hearing from the witnesses today to help us understand the extent of the current health care litigation cost, and i'm now pleased to welcome the remarks of the ranking member,onessmanohn connrs >>hank you, ranking member smith. this is our first hearing in the 112th session, and i'd like to just add for your consideration my recommendationsth vinease with health care the antitrust exemption that health insurance companies enjoy
, and that the sunshine litigation act that ensures and prevents secret settlements from being used t eanr the puic setre aled and theho m buiy o frdulent acts including the medical community that in turn would protect all patientings and protectesonly spsiocrs fmbe of ci of the wrong doing, and then you remember the act that me and a former member campbell introduced tt pors dtooegiaan en aygie u to kindly consider
those measures that might be more important than an oversight hearing on a subject matter that members of congress have already announced that they're going to introduce namely hr5 which i expect will be coming down the pipe one day next week. inont,soins are already ors hearing for a bill that's being written to be the subject come straight to our committee. it suspect exac lgima --
it in' ectevseut ers a certn iroy the way is isoming off today, andu wanted to put it in the record. now, legislative hearings should helprro the oversight hearings, but also i hope we can get into the issue of the shortage of doctors in rural areas which is critical in which many of us view would be increased by a cap on medical liability, this $250,000 cap,
most of our witnesses here today realize that that may have a peerse fect befo it's all er wth now, about the large number of cases filed. one out of every eight cases filed that eve results in the lawsuit, and that's because with the statute of limitations, attorneys have to include in the filings many people who are involved and are usually excluded from any trial lability, but they get counted
as the ones who are sued, so i'm looking ard toiuson ab tt. no wea stes that constituonly precle any mitationnmecare dag. ntky ao limit the damages. dr. hoven is from kentucky. dr. w erk istein is from iowa, and kentucky prohits limits on damage, but there's other states, arizona, pennsylvania, wyoming thatrided sh mpany re t o colleague, gabby giffords, are all under
some danger by some of the treandz that we're -- trends that we're expecting in hr5 and i think it's something we ought to consider. i close with just a comment about the real cost of medical malpractice claims. there are only a fraction of the real cost, and i end on this note. the sixth largest cause of death in the united states of america medically are malpractice cases. i hope that as this discussion rolls out this morning, we will be considering what we do with the hundreds of thousands of
people that could be adversely affected whose lifetime cos evenhough ty e innocent and are supported by the court and judgments are entered, but with a $250,000 cap as much of us know on all the hearings we've had prior to now that this would be very min mall indeed -- minimal indeed, and i thank you for the time. >> i thank the ranking member for his comments. we'll take a short recess to vote, and when we return i'll recognize the ranking chairman of constitutional law of subcommittees. they have jurisdiction on this issue, and then we get to the witnesses. we stand in recess until about 20in