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tv   Book TV After Words  CSPAN  February 20, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm EST

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his relevance today. now, for presidents day and while supplies last, publishers are offering to c-span your's the hardcover edition of a brand like in an a special prize of $5 plus shipping and handling go to c-span.org and click on the a brambly can book. >> up next from the book tv archives a program from 2001. discussing a former fbi agent career as a counterintelligence expert and spy for the former soviet union. sold nuclear information as well as the names of double agents to the former soviet union and russia in exchange for hundreds of thousands of dollars in gifts. ..
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what we were we were we were we were we were we were
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the decision to risk one's life for a political believe is now a distant third. who the two carriers can be easily or legal.
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prostitution what devotees determined by the jurisdiction from which the prostitute works in the world of espionage legality depends upon one's employers. spy for your country and you are quiet, and some hero. supply for another nation and you're a trader a monster, getting caught while working for the wrong side can mean death. how can one explain robert hennsen who had a lovely wife, wonderful children, some of a cop, veterans, chicago police department and the cop himself five years have you explain a guy like that that is what a trip to the my book. he was born in 1984 in chicago
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inside the city limits. his father was a chicago cop who had gone off to the war and the needy, said he was away when he was born. he came back shortly after the war ended and resumed his career as a cop. both of robert one hansen's parents were when he was born in the bungalow very small, and after he was born his grandmother on his father's side came to live with the family. effect up a little place in the attic so there was robert, an only child growing up in the chicago winters and the only child living with three middle-aged adults. when you live like that, and you are alone and your dad is a way in the police force in all hours of the day and night, you learn
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to develop and read. one of robert hanssen's first subscription was too mad magazine. his favorite teacher in mad magazine was, if you have ever read "mad" magazine was spy vs. spy on the back cover. most people gave up "mad" magazine when you're about 16-years-old, towards the end of high school. he continued to subscribe to it in college and beyond college. he had that sort of fantasy life. in high school he was known as what they say today eight geek, pocket protector kind of guy, no dates, didn't have an active social life, and after he graduated from high school, he went to hundred miles away to college in galesburg illinois
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called knox college. he was a chemistry major. when you are a chemistry major at knox college, you have to take a language. he had the choice of three languages, german, spanish or russian. you're right, he chose russian. he took two years of russian breughel of like the russian literature and music which was a part of the course, and what they're really unusual part of that is he never told his mother or father that he was studying russian. when he got out of college he applied for the job of the national security agency out at fort beat maryland. he didn't get the job he was happy when he learned that, too said he didn't want to go to vietnam. it was 66 and instead, she applied to the dental school of
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northwestern university. there were 3,000 applicants that year and 64 people accepted. he was one of those accepted. robert hanssen is a very brilliant man, able to grasp a lot which is why he stayed and detected by the fbi for decades. he knew how to cover his tracks. so he went to dental school and one of the people we interviewed, i interviewed about a dozen people in that hall at northwestern. they saw him as much as the people of the fbi saw him. it is strange dhaka, his roommate told me. you have to do cadavers' just like a medical school. bob hansen although they would go to college dressed like you are casually, bob hanssen would wear the black suit, white skirt
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and the type and he stood out because he was the only one wearing the suit to school. when he did those cadavers he kept his jacket on, the black jacket, and dissected them and they did it for two days. but when he came back to the room he shared with his roommate, he hung up his jacket and his pants and let it sit there and and his roommate told permeating in the room and bob was oblivious to all this and he didn't do anything about so he had to beg him to take the suit of for dry cleaning. he wouldn't say anything but he would come up to a person and say as much as i'm told he did at the fbi or he would literally not say anything and just look
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at them and look superior and it is easy to him to look down on people. most of you heard of the incident with the stripper where he became her close friend and tried to save her and comfort her to the ways of his church for two years, but there was never any sexual contact although she certainly did her part. one of his dorms in the dental students all like to go to after exams and have a sort of celebratory dinner of goose goose and that sort of thing, but the main reason he liked going to this restaurant is it had a belly dancer but because it had a belly dancer, he was
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pressed that he was so repressed he wouldn't notice them and they dhaka was sort of strange. he met his wife in 1967 in chicago and she graduated from the university. he felt that she looked exactly like natalie wood and that was his reason for -- he had a crush on how natalie wood in the movie, and she does look a little like natalie wood, so he asked her out. she was a lutheran, he was a catholic, he was the only child and she was one of eight children. and she told her sister from the start i want to marry him, he's not even catholic but was on a few dates. they were engaged and she did marry him and he immediately
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converted. there were married in the catholic church in her home town which is just over the chicago line. she was also and her family is also active in an organization within the catholic church. he joined that as well. he became a chicago cop. before he became a chicago cop, in 1968 just after he got married, he had read the memoir of kenneth silbey who was a spy for russia while he was with the british mi for nearly 20 years, and i was talking to a friend of his by the name of robert and he is now a dentist in the skokie illinois and he told me bob hanssen kept pressing this upon him and he took it and to get home and read it and then he
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said bob hanssen kept pressing you've got to give it back. i want the book back so he finally brought it back to the house and robert hanssen said well, what did you think of the book? he said well, i thought it was okay. and bob hanssen remembers to this day he said you know someday i would like that. so he was saying back then to his friends he wanted to be a spy, and after he got out of northwestern dental school he didn't like it, said he didn't like spit, that was his word. he went on and got an mba and accounting and worked about three months as a cpa and became a chicago cop just like his father but because he had that m.b.a. they put him in some important stuff right away and they put him in intelligence with of the chicago police department and the chicago police department what he did
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was to figure out he would go and the cops were covering up for drug dealers and worked on the take so to speak. his job was spirited out, so he wasn't really popular in the chicago police department because he was turning against one of your own and no matter how bad. it was the most popular shot to have. but i spoke with his boss who's still alive and said they couldn't wait to get him out of their. his also said they always thought bob hanssen was the double agent inside of the chicago police department. they thought bob hanssen was a snitch telling everything they were doing to the mayor daley's office. and i said well, when he joined the fbi, which was 1976, he said he literally marched down there and said he should take the fbi job but i said were you ever approached by the fbi and interviewed by them, background
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check and tell them that? he said no, i never talked to the fbi. so, one of my points of the book is much like the event of september 11th, bob hanssen was a failure of intelligence gathering. he shouldn't have been hired by the fbi in my view. after he was hired by the fbi to the rate of 1976, he was sent to gary indiana right near chicago about 30, 40 miles outside, but because he had that nba, they certainly had more important things in mind for him, and they sent him to new york to the new york field office where he lived in scarsdale new york. when he lived in scarsdale he paid $34,000 for it and his -- scarsdale was known as a pretty rich the area of new york with his mother-in-law told me we always refer to that house has been in the slums of scarsdale if there is such a thing. when he bought that house, the
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person he bought it from was a dentist like he, so he went to dinner and told the dentist he had a swiss bank account. here was this guy making 30, 35 balls and dollars a year and his boasting that he has a swiss bank account and even the dentist thought it was strange at the time. he also told him i wanted to be a spy ever since i was a little boy. and in fact, in 1979, he did become a spy for the first time, and i don't know how many of you heard this story, but in 1979 he actually did a one time deal where he got about $20,000 he gave the information. his wife called him counting out the money in the basement of the house and he assured her yeah i did do this deal with the russians but i didn't give them anything of any real importance. but still, she was pretty upset about it and said well, you've got to go tell the priest.
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so he went and told the local priest, and the priest said okay. he didn't turn him, his wife didn't turn him and he said you've got to get all the money that you received to the mother teresa charities, which he claims he did. nobody saw him, mother teresa doesn't keep that kind of records, but over the year his claim is he did give the $20,000 to the mother teresa charity. so of course, in 1985 he began spying again and then it was earnest, then i was like literally every month or every other month there was a drop, and between 1985 and 1991, he gave nearly 6,000 pages of material to the russians. now the deals he made with the kgb, the 6,000 pages were really some of our most precious
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secrets, nuclear secret satellites, and if any of you know the intelligence you, you know after the fall of the union, the soviet union in 1991, a lot of the secrets that the russians had about us were then retail out to countries like iran, iraq, china. there were sold to the highest bid. i wouldn't be surprised if some of those pages are sitting in a cave somewhere in afghanistan right now. so what bob hanssen did can never be underestimated. and why we never saw and why his wife never saw, when a spouse cheats on another spouse, from then on, the spouse has been cheated on her antenna is we get there or his antenna is way up there. and because he was doing so much work for the kgb between 1985
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and 1991 and then leader from 1999, why his wife never caught it is i don't live it was a here no evil, see no evil, why did he do this? first of all, i believe that bob hanssen, although he knows right from wrong, his lawyer wanted to. bob hanssen was pretty, well, creasy. you wouldn't have known it, you would think that he was eccentric, the eccentric genius the fbi doesn't develop the computer system for them that you can track the soviet spy, but he was an eccentric quirky kind of guy but you wouldn't have fought being the son of a chicago policeman, you would have never thought bob hanssen would have been a mole in their midst. bob hanssen did some very strange things for his family. at least i believe they are
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strange. when his oldest daughter was 3-years-old, he taught her to read, which is terri mice and great. shows how smart he was. when he was for, they sat down together and they read their first put together. it wasn't nancy drew. the book they read it together was the ultimate russian novel, war and peace. 1450 pages if you ever read it. that was her first book. it took nearly a year i am told. later on when they were in queens and he was working at the fbi headquarters, his daughter -- he had two daughters going to a parochial school in maryland -- he would drive in everyday and let them off the metro center, and then he would try it on to the fbi headquarters and they would take the metro up to chevy chase when he drove them and he wouldn't allow them to speak. instead he played tapes of soviet composers.
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once in awhile, i was told this by a person who rode to the same school in the car pool, once in awhile he played beethoven, but for the most part soviet composers. so, little things, little strange things, a little strange actions. the fbi little boy's club, he beat up a 21-year-old secretary, traditor are bound by the hair because she walked out of a meeting he was conducting and he got five days suspended without pay the was it. he never got a demotion, nothing ever happened. she wanted to take action against him, like legal action, soo him, she was told if you want to keep your job this is an internal matter and don't say anything. when i interviewed her earlier this year, she said she had
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great satisfaction because she was still there and he was gone. i don't know how long i've talked, but i will -- does anybody have any questions at this point? >> [inaudible] other books were mentioned. what caused you to take this up as your subject right now? >> i did not choose to write this book. what happened was robert hanssen was arrested a little after 5:00 on fenty were a 18th of this year. and on to doherty 22nd, a publisher in new york had an editorial meeting and they said, you know, robert hanssen is on the front page of the washington post. we've got to have a book on this, and who shall the author de? the next thing you know, i get a phone call from an editor at st. martin's press that says to
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call him right away, and i wasn't at home. five minutes later there's another call on the answering machine from my agent. my agent says don't speak to the editor until to speak to me that if he does get a hold of you, tell him that you will do it if it's worth your while. [laughter] i have a good agent. so that is how the book came and i think they thought of me because they lived in northern virginia so they live close to him, and in fact i do. i live 6 miles away from him, and it turned out because i have lived in ruston since 1989 and before that, because of that, i just found out we have friends in common and we used the same community swimming pool, i had attended the same church although i'm not a member of that church, and we knew many of
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the same people. so i was lucky in being able to, if i were up there in new york or chicago or somewhere else around the country it would have been a jury hard book to do, but because i was like literally his next-door neighbor, it was easier than the many books i've done. yes, ma'am. >> is his wife still in vienna, and how is she doing through all this? >> the wife is going to do very well indeed. bernadette hanssen, most people call her mommy, has two children -- she has six children but she has a 16-year-old son and a 15-year-old girl. there is one son that is a law student at motor dame and another that is a graduate student at rice university for a ph.d. and then the oldest daughter is married with three children. she will do very well because
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part of the deal that mr. hanssen made actually the sheriff's made is that mr. hanssen will not get the death penalty and will tell the government everything they want to know and they will debrief him over a period of six months and he will have to take polygraph tests on demand and she will get what is essentially the widow's pension, $38.5 thousand each year for the rest of her life. that's not quite enough to live on with two children that she hasn't given up the house. she's still there. her parents are very well-off. i am sure they will help her out. since he's been arrested and she's been called a saint by many people, she teaches part time at a religious school at a parochial school, a lot of people have from the church has given her money, taken of collections for her and at the end of her street is a public
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school, not a parochial school put fairfax, and the crossing guards like her so much they took up a collection and raised nearly $100 handed it to her so she's doing pretty well. she had said publicly to the friends she's not going to divorce him, she's coming to pray for him and she's going to forgive him and she's going to visit him and he will be in ellinwood prison, which is in pennsylvania about a fee and a half hour drive. it is the same federal prison where mr. james walker is, and i don't know if any of you know the gun runner to libya he was also there from the early 80's. so there's a great number of spies at the prison and also a great number of members of the mafia. [laughter]
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>> yes, ma'am. >> why was the law enforcement community not chosen to prosecute as an accessory when she knew he was a spy tech in the very beginning and could have prevented all of the -- if she had gone to the fbi. >> well, you know, she can always say i didn't know. it's a hard thing to prove. they did interrogate her for about eight hours and they were pretty sure that -- you have a we give blocking things out sometimes the you don't want to know. it's very interesting that bonnie hanssen's brother is an fbi agent in the chicago field office. so, i mean, it is a good -- and another brother is a priest. so a sterling family. yes, ma'am. >> did you interview robert hanssen himself? >> i did not interview robert hanssen himself. the fbi won't let anybody near
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him. they got -- and got very why is after an older james was arrested and a reporter snuck into the alexandria city jail and interviewed him and got a number of interviews and the kept this under wraps. i did interview his mother. i did many times, and i did interview his mother-in-law and i had a source within the family that told me all of these family quirkiness i guess is the best way. yes, sir. >> i'm really quite curious. there seems to be a missing link between the people that you have mentioned that our former spies, and a religious affiliation. it seems like to me the all billing to a splinter group, very conservative, religious faction and the press mentioned
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that about your subject. did you consider any of that in terms of why he would have done this for some religious belief? >> absolutely. i do go into that. he did have this, i told it goes into catholic miracles, and in 1979 sure that you heard of this particular merkel there was a miracle called of portugal. that particular merkel is also known among the catholics as god's peace plan from russia. with that miracle states is that war is caused by sin and russia would become a consecrated nation and a secret nation and wasn't going to be communist. there were ct to cut three
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secrets that is the second secret. i know bob hanssen and meetings about this and he wrote a paper with the fbi. again, i want to assure you we are talking to somebody that is a little bit mentally not sound. he believed, it is my opinion, don't know if he told the fbi, he believed that it was only a matter of time before and a short matter of time before russia would not be communist anymore and would become a secret mission. russia gave up in 1991, december 26 when gorbachev pronounced all. that is approximately just after that when bob hanssen stopped sliding. he believed russia, he was about to get its wish come true that
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russia was about to become a consecrated secret nation and all of the secrets that he gave was moved that they wouldn't be given up. but what happened it became the wild west and was more botched and worse than it was under communism and sure enough he began to slide again in 1999. that is one reason. he also needed the money and was also pretty crazy. but that's certainly -- his religious belief or part of it. he also believed that because he was a member of both, he had to send his children to the state schools or state schools or single-sex schools that cost a little bit more than your regular. he had six children he had to send. the fbi making between 40, $45,000 a year. that's not going to cut it. he needed that money. although, you know, when you think about it, the money bob
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hanssen got isn't all that much. he got $600,000 from cash tax-free. it's only $40,000 a year tax-free. not a lot of money particularly when you drop $80,000 on a stripper and other crazy stuff like that. yes, sir. >> what type of damage did robert hanssen due to the country's intelligence apparatus? is he more dangerous or more -- worse damage than elder james? where does he rank in the spies -- >> i say in my book that he's done the more damage to the u.s. since rosenberg. he did give up nuclear secrets and satellite secrets. he gave away the crown jewels. in fact, the thing that was so amazing about it is he was giving the kgb reports while they were still warm. they would be dated feb 1989, and he was giving them february,
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1989. in other words, they had just been rolled off the press. i say in my book somewhat jokingly that the kgb was getting there before the joint chiefs of staff. yes, ma'am. >> what led the fbi to begin to question him and believed he was someone to watch the there was a danger that he was a spy? >> the question is what made the fbi began to believe that he was a mole in the midst or in a spy. i wish i could say that on behalf of the fbi it wasn't. what happened was in september or october last year, 2000, there was a russian diplomat in
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sight of the u.n. who wanted to defect but he didn't want to defect without money and he had access to secrets and he sold the u.s. intelligence committee this huge file which is bob hanssen's file and defected and, you know, he's putting in this little nest egg. but when they got this file, bob hanssen thought he was so smart because he never told the soviet union or the russian federation his name. all of his communications were done in code either by raymond garcia or he used a number of different names. he never met with them face-to-face. he felt they had no pictures of him and he was relatively careful not to put his fingers on the computer disks and he gave them paperwork, and he never put his fingers on the papers of the had all this
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paperwork and the disks and so forth but no name. they might have been able to figure out but it would take years. he made one mistake, and who would have fought every package he ever gave the russians he wrapped it in a hefty plastic garbage bag and give it to him. i'm sure he thought the hefty bags, and i would have fought so, too, would have been tossed and they would keep the paper work but you know the russians, they kept the plastic bags. the fingerprints were all over the plastic bags. so once they had seen her prints on every bag of the had to do this surveil him, then they ran all his communications and there was a lot of quotes. he liked to quote george patent. people said waite, bob hanssen likes to quote george patent are not hallway when he wants to get something done to it it really wasn't hard it was just a matter
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of following them around, and catching the yak, which they did >> from your research or your guess or whatever, do you think that there are any direct links between the breach and the security hanssen created and set every 11th tragedy's? do you think there's any cause and effect link down the chain? >> we really don't know the answer to that. i'm sure it will come out in a few years before the congress. it's certainly possible. i'm sure they've asked him about that. certainly the secrets he gave away as i said earlier were given to the russians after the fall of the soviet union city sold to the highest bidder. you know, whether some of them roundup in the hands of arab terrorists and have helped them, we won't know until probably two
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years from now. yes, sir. >> of the air force intelligence one of the basic premises of any intelligence organization has to limit the amount of exposure of a single person would have to any intelligence information need to know as a common term. how could he get his hands on so much reverse information >> the we he was able to get his hands on so much diverse information was although he didn't have the degree in computer science keeps a computer genius and so he knew how to hack into the fbi computer system and so he wouldn't be detected and the latest documents weigel he wouldn't print them out he just put them on a desk and would take the discount, besides
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having a top secret clearance, and he was right at top of that, too commesso he had access. in fact one of the things he did always did is he would search for his name or address or so forth to see if they were on to him. he would go through these computer systems every month to see if his name came up on some surveillance chart. he knew how to do that and he devised the system is the fbi had. many of the computer systems were like he was the fox in charge of the hen house so to speak >> did he have any remorse? >> as robert hanssen have remorse? that is a good question. i will tell you this. in july of this year he pleaded guilty to charges and on the day that he pleaded guilty, and there was about, i was in the courthouse, and i sat on the side where the jury normally
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sits, so i was looking out towards the audience, and that was between 25 to 30 fbi agents in the courtroom came to see him plead guilty and to see what he looked like. and before -- the judge said, you know, how do you plead? and before he said guilty, he turned around and he looked at the fbi agents and i could see him quite clearly and they gave him this little smirk, a sort of like a smile smirk, and they grimmest. that isn't what the expected. there was no sign of remorse in that expression. it was quite a sight to behold. he didn't like the prison food, and he was apprehended and of course of your 18th, and by july, he lost about 40 pounds.
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his lawyer who defended him and also defended alder james told me that maybe he should go in to bob hanssen's sell for a few weeks because he was quite courtly and could maybe lose some of that week. [laughter] and he -- yes, sir. >> as the information that he gave the russians directly lead to the assets? >> the question is did the information he gave to the russians lead to the death of the men? >> at least two and possibly three for sure. in 1979, what he did say he told his wife he didn't give up anything she really did come he gave up other double agents also gave up the name of russian colonel by the name of his code name was top hat and his now last name was polycarp.
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so he gave up him and in 1985, the very first thing he did, his very first communication to the russians is he asked for $100,000 they gave 50,000 he gave up two names. i can't remember the other gentleman's firstname. he listened executed and serve about nine years in the soviet prison camp and was led out by boris yeltsin on amnesty. the other two were executed. however he also gave up those names, and older james and another spy by the name of ed wind howard also give up the names, said he was the second or the third cooperation to those names. but he certainly gave them up. he may have known that they had already been compromised, and that what he was doing didn't
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matter. he may have felt that it didn't matter. because i did find this, i did find that in many ways bob hanssen is a very kind man. as crazy as he is, and even in college she would tutor people for free, but was also very quirky. yes, sir. >> if you could say one thing that motivated him, you talk about money and that he was crazy. is there one thing you have concluded was his motivation? >> well, i don't know if any of you know acronym it's called m.i.c.e. and its money, ideology, compromise, which is another word for black male, and ego. of those four things, ego and money, forget about ideology, there was no ideology, and there
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hasn't been ideology for decades, but i think money was probably the first, but he had this -- he had this fantasy life. you know, when they -- after they arrested him from the surrounded his house and searched his house. inside his house, they found he had a computer room in the basement. three computers. he did boast of his work on an ibm thinkpad 365 e. on the thinkpad, they found when the captain to it and found out what sites he had been visiting one of the sites was the james bond website, and you're talking about a guy that felt that he was not he in fantasy which was sean connery and that he voted for his favorite james bond movie.
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what do you think laws? from russia with love. [laughter] and then of course when they looked at the basement the fund 14 guns, 14 weapons including an ak-47. two of the guns was the walter p. pk which was james bond's weapon of choice and all his movies. he didn't have one, he had to come and was a little gun. so, he had this crazy fantasy life, so part of it was this ego fantasy and part of it was the money to put his kids through school. >> i have heard that when the search was find out who the spite was that a cia agent was blamed for the government fought a cia agent had until robert hansen was caught. do you mentioned this in your book? >> i did, and that is true. a cia agent that they suspected
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and they put him on administrative leave and gave him a hard time looks like bob hanssen, live on the same street as bob hanssen at some time, so i guess they had all these parallels. what the street he lives on now with bob hanssen when he first lived in vienna lived near the metro stop. in fact, where he lived you could walk out the backyard and practically walk right into the park if you know the area. and not we park became and was his favorite drop site. that's where he made more exchanges with the russians. he kept it pretty easy on himself. all of the sites were like with an ally or two of his house. leader on there was actually more than one park but for the most part, they were close to home. yes, sir. >> in 1979 when they went and
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offered some secrets, why did he go to the gru at that time rather than the kgb? >> at that time, he was in charge of tracking soviet diplomats inside new york city, not just the ones who work for the u.s. but work for the various trade organizations. and i sure he came in contact with the gru people time, and that -- that particular 19791 unlike the ones from 85 and on he probably learned his lessons, the was a face-to-face meeting i am told. is that -- that's it? i will be glad to sign books and speak with anyone after the meeting. thank you very much for having me. [applause] >> on behalf of the cold war
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museum for coming tonight for the lecture i would like to present you with one of our patches and schappell pins. i want to say a few brief remarks and then we will line up for the signing. on november 18th, the cold war museum will be hosting a robert hanssen spy tour so if anybody would like to attend a can log on to www.spytour.com to find out more information. if anybody would like to find out more about the cold war museum our web site is www.coldwar.org. if you would like to get on our e-mail list we have a sign up sheet here or else you can send an e-mail to info@coldwar.org, and we will respond with questions and answers. thank you for attending. we appreciate your support. [applause] >> this program first aired in 2001. to watch this and other archive
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booktv programs, visit booktv.org >> we are here at cpac with thomas talking about his latest book. tell us what it's about. >> well, it's about the crisis but unfortunately we are about to face. it turns out the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train because we have not only a situation where even the best scenario we are going to start paying a trillion dollars a year just on interest on the national debt by 2020, but also unfortunately, the entitlement programs are underfunded by like $111 trillion, and there is no combination of taxes or borrowing for printing the money that can possibly solve this so we have to start acting like adults and fix it. >> where did you come up with the title? >> the was the publishers idea. it's very much in the old cold war days. ebit we have to roll back not just with the government has done that the expectations because unfortunately, the resources won't be there. the government is going to renege on a lot of the promises
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it made to people and we'd better prepare ourselves for that so that it doesn't hit in the seventh calamity. >> do you propose solutions? >> i do toward the end and no good author gives them all away. but in deed there are some things we can do to ease the burden of the system. for the simple, you turn 65, the government says to you you can either get all the benefits you are entitled to under these programs, or you can foreswear them and the rest of your left or totally exempt from income and the state tax. that would immediately to tremendous pressure off and no one would even consider that five for ten years ago but we are steering a default in the face, and it is either a choice between that and unplugging granny i think people will consider the unconventional alternatives. >> every weekend book tv brings 48 hours of history, biography and public affairs. here is a portion of one of our programs. in addition to a questionnaire that covered a wide variety of background items, the yaf members were
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asked to imagine the nation's history from 1966 to the end of the century. in other words, the year 2000. and so, they were looking ahead for 44 years, and imagining what they perceived or what they were viewing as what would happen to the country for the remainder of the century. and did graduate student who was doing the study, richard primghar, was surprised by what he described as the belief of yaf members that a continued drift to the welfare state and socialism and moral decay would be reversed in the near future by the awakening of the american people resulting in moving the the train of events back to common sense. he also surveyed members of students for the space society, which was the leading new left
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or leftist organization on campuses of the 60's and the young democrats and the college republicans. and he reported on his results in an article that he had co-written and was published in an academic journal. it's interesting to view some of the projections of the yaf members in 1966. one yaf member predicted a redirection of american society towards freedom and conservative principles. remember again, he's writing in 1966, and here's what he said: the united states, led by hypocritical and on principal leaders, becomes very bureaucratic and increasingly socialistic. the united states generally loses the battles in foreign affairs because it does not present its philosophy of free enterprise, libertarian beliefs,
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etc., as well as it showed. sounds almost familiar to the current doesn't it? finally, in the 1980's or thereabouts, the american people realize that economic security is not necessarily freedom. they realize their freedoms are being abridged. they realize the economy is becoming regimented and the government too bureaucratic. the people would then change the trend of events back to the common sense conservative principles of government. remember, his prediction was 1980, and if you recall from history, 1980 as it turned out, this was indeed the year in which the american people voted for a conservative president ronald reagan, who did indeed -- [applause]
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-- who did, indeed, change the trend of defense back to common sense conservative principles of government. braumgart cited another yafer as predicting the following events of the future from 1966 to 2000. his predictions were as follows colin code 1968, republican victory; 1972, ronald reagan elected president; 1976, ronald reagan really liked it; 1978, the fall of soviet russia; 1980, the fall of red china; 1985, end of welfare, social security and medicare; 2000, the end of unions p.. now, as braumgart and his co-author noted of compared with their sts counterparts on the left, yafer seemed to have a mountain of monte -- naive
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faith. let's look back 45 years and we can see that this naive faith seems to have been rather at in its prediction of future events. change a few of the dates, modify a few of the conclusions and these yaf members who were then only high school and college students have laid out the political history of the last one third of the 20th century. because consider nixon's victory in 1968 brought both a realignment of american politics as well as at mid lead the disgrace of watergate, impeachment and resignation. ronald riggins's victory came eight years after the yafer had predicted, but was indeed followed by a landslide reelection. it took nine more years for the berlin wall to fall, closely followed by the demise of the
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soviet union. then, in his 1993 state of the union message, a new democratic president promised to, quote, and welfare as we knew it. and the reforms of our welfare system were enacted a short while later when republicans gained a majority in congress in 1994. two years after that their original state of the union message, that same president declared, quote, the error of big government is over in his state of the union message. >> to watch this program in its entirety, go to booktv.org. simply type the title of the author's name of the top left of the screen and click on search. we are here talking about the book "revolt." tell us about it. >> it's a book i wrote as a tea party activist to try to get a good explanation for why freedom
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is always the best choice in economics and for small liberty. i started out -- my problem is i had the secret service come to my house, and i was not really politically active until then. they came based on an anonymous complaint, and i was just kind of stunned, you know, i was raised to believe america is a very free place, and they came questioning my thoughts and my feelings, and it really disturbed me. and so, i started looking into what our founders thought of freedom, and what did they expect we would have as a government. and i was pretty sure it wasn't the national police showing up at citizen stores. so i looked into that. i read the federalist papers, a lot of history, and i got very involved in economics through the university online. so what i wanted to do was share with other tea partiers to find a way to freedom works, not just
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this is my money i should keep it, but i was raised a very poor, and so i know from experience that if you love poor people, the last thing that you need for the government to help them. communities and churches i feel have been kind of destroyed by intervention by the government. you know, we don't need to know our neighbors anymore, we don't need to be friends with people any longer because we kind of have this nanny state that will take care of us. but it's a layman's explanation how the monetary system works, what our debt looks like, how the regulations affect personal wealth, and what really is true prosperity. i believe there is a perception on both sides of the bottle. you have the kind of democratic side the believes all of our problems are with businesses. and on the republican side, i believe that all of our problems are with government. but i try to show is that our real problem is is what of corporatism, where the big businesses are actually going to the congress and asking them to
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pass all these regulations to keep the little people out. i hear with the tea party. they actually are focusing more on the minority of reach, and it's interesting because one of my favorite rags to riches story is of madame walker, who was born on a plantation. at 14 she was married, 17 she had a child, 20 she was a widow. now what does a single woman today face that compares with her obstacles? now in her lifetime, she developed a hair care and make a point and built a mansion next to john rockefeller employing about 3,000 women nationwide and in the caribbean, and she was personally responsible for the harlem renaissance. today what stands in the way of people, like i was, like many of our poor inner-city people, it's the government. you can't go cut somebody's hair justin texas we had someone shot down an illegal hair cutting
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operation putative was to guys with barber chairs of the flea market. as we want to show that freedom works for everyone. >> you are watching book tv on c-span2. here's hour prime time lineup for tonight. next, stephanie coontz at the evergreen state college reports on the generation of american women who were introduced to feminis p

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