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tv   Book TV After Words  CSPAN  November 19, 2011 10:00pm-11:00pm EST

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em wonder six years -- sisk's months old which meant they were too young to be vaccinated. there's a measles outbreak in minnesota started when a deliberately unvaccinated child returned to the country with measles. i think this is an issue we are only going to see come up more often and i will leave off there and i'm sure we will have an interesting update. >> you can watch this and other programs on line and tv.or. ..
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>> as one unique desperate people. >> and, you know, this occupy wallwú street effort that's proliferating inóú communities it's marked by a great diversity of background, cultures race. >> right. >> united against the power of wall street and washington in a desperate search for a more democratic site. not just political but economicwúwú >> right.wúwú >> well, i do think this, iwúóú think the measure of unity that they have i hi one of the reasons they have it, they're not going their commands, andwúóú i'm sure some of those folks that are tea party types wouldwú not be part of their demands.óú i agree with the fundamentalóú premise of the occupy wall street folks which is look,
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these fellows up here played thewhwj high takes wú wú wú wú wúóú wú wúwúój wúwúwú wú wúwúwpwú wú wúwúwúwúwúwú wpwú wpwúwúwúóúóúóú wp wúwúwúwú wp ójój whwú wúwú wúwúwpwpwp wú wúóúwúwúóúóúwúwúwúwúwú wúwúwú wúwúwpwúwpwúwúwpwúwpwpwúwú wú wpwpwúwpwúwúwpwúwúwúwúóúóúwúwú ópwpóúóúóúwúóúóú wúóú wpwúwpwpwúwúwúóúóúóúópóúóúóúwúwúwhwúwpwúwpwjwjwjwú óh wúwúwúwúwúwpwúwú wú wú wú wúwú wúóúwúwúwúwúwúóúwúwjwjwjwjwjwjwjójójwjóhójójóhwhwhóp óú wúwúóúwúójópwúwhójwpwúwjwjwhwúwú >> those searching for work. and so i share the exasperation and the anger and the rage at that inequity and ip justice. --óúóú injustice. but again, when you come to an agenda, i think you break down and i think they will. and also, ralph, i think aswú winter comes, a lot of them areópóú going to peel off. they're not going to get the publicity they did and they're going to do things such aswú happened in atlantawú this oakland, and then i think the
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american people will turn themóh off. they don'twj like what happened in grant park when i was out there in 1968. >> or they'll move southth.wú >> you and i were at the battle of seat seattle. it was ralph nader, pat buchanan. óúóúóúóúóúóúóúóp wúwú wúóú óúóú wú wpwú wúwúwú wúwúwúwú wú wú wúwúóúwúwúwúwúwúwúwúwú wúwpwú wúwúwúwúwúwúwp wpwpwpwúwpwpóúóhóúóúóúóhóhóhóhóhóhóúóhóhójój wú wp wúwúwúwú wp wp whwpwhwhóhwj wú wjwúwúóú wúwúwúwúóúóúóúóúóúwp óú wú ójwjójwjójwjwjwúwjwjwúwjwhóhwúwjóú wúwú wú wú wú óúóúóúóúwpwúwpwpwpwúwpwú wúwúwúwúwúwúwúwúwú >> to a movement, i think the american people then would have supported. stop exporting our jobs, stop sending our jobs overseas. >> it's interesting they're quite disciplined now in terms of nonviolent civil diso weed yens. that oakland conflict, for example, even that didn't provoke it. they're really quite
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disciplined. they're not being infiltrated the way they were in seattle. but early in the reagan administration i was on ao% program with you and my lasto!o! words were the coming months pat, will show whether you're a corporatist or a conservative. so let me ask you the question. are you a corporatist or a conservative? >> i'm a conservative. i'mwú a traditionalist conservative. you know, when iwp was younger, iwúwp didn't, you know, i followed thewúwú flashier keys than russell kirk. by eventually you came to see hewú had something really good to sea about the society and. i'm also as a catholic i've gotwúwú a little --wúwú [inaudible] the social cyclicals back inwú there, ralph.wúwú >> liberation theology maybe? >> no. [laughter] let me tel l you a story though, ralph. i went to school, and inój
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journalism school one of my classmates was a priest.wúwj my brother was in the mare knolls for a while.wpwh and he can and i became friends. his name was miguel. he became the foreign minister of the sandinistas and he won the lenin peace prize. he's a classmate of mine. no, i did not agree with himoa back then.wúwú >> and how would you define awh corporatist? >> i would say a lot of thewhwú lobbyists here in washington,wúóú d.c., some of them coming out of both administrations, both white houses.wúwú they're down here in tease, and they will -- d.c., and they will do what the bosses tell them.wú i cameóh out of the nixon whitewj house, and therewj was an issue,wúwú and you probably were involved in it. this japanese company had taken this superquiet technology wherewh they could move seen into sovietwúwú
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importants undetected, and they turned it over to the soviet union. wúwúwúwúwú wúóúójwú wpwúwúwú wúóúwhójóhwhópwjwúwúwú whwpwúwúóhóhóhóúóhwúóhóúójwúwjwpwjóhwúóp óú wúwúwúwjwjwjwúwúwúwúwjwúwúwúwúójóúójwúóhójwhóhóhójóhwhwjwhwúwhwhwjwhwhópóúóú wúwpwú wúwú wpwpwpwúwhwpwjwhwhwhwjóhwpwú wúwpwpwúwúwpwúwúwúwúóúwúwúwú wú wú wúwúwúwúwú wpwúwúwúwúwúóúwú wúwúwúwú óúwúwúwúóúópwúóúwúwúwúwúwúwhwúwhwhwjóhóúwhwhwhwhwhwhwúwhójóhóhwpwh whópwjwúwú wpwúwúwjwjwh wj wú wúwúwpóúóúóúóúóúwú wúwúóúóú wú n!nananana >> in the book, which i have read the one thing there was very little of was how in the mix of disintegration that you're driewbing is corporatism is the power of corporations. now, we know that corporations know few limits. every major religion in the world -- the merchant class the money lenders. and what we've seen in america because you see a decline. i see a decline in this way. parental authorities being sidestepped by corporations selling to kids junk food, violent program, sadistic stuff finish.
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>> right. >> i agree with you 100%. >> and let me -- i'm trying to get the variables in here. the military industrial complex doesn't mind our empire abroad. ize b hour -- eisenhower warned us about that.ñ!ñ% the corporations pushed nafta and wto through. that has dealt with a huge abandonment of jobs and industry through communist and fascist regimes overseas who know how to keep the workers in their place at 80 cents an hour. nafta dumped a lot of cheap coinñ%ñ% into mexico. this possessed millions of families. some of them went north over the border increased the immigration there. youo% have the corruption of our democratic politics but with the big money in politics. and they want to own everything even our jeans. they have thousands of patents
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of our jeans, and they don't have any patriotism.ñaña these u.s. companies grew tooaoa profit on the backs of american workers, got in trouble overseas american marines. so what's their message tooaoa america? we're out of here.oaoa with your jobs and industry to china. so why isn't -- and they've devastated the family. they have separated chirp from their family. oaoaoaoaoaoaoaoaououououououoaouououoaoaouoaoaoaoañananaln@n.jótótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ótótótó÷ótótó÷ó÷ótótótwúó÷wpwpwpótwpwpwpwpw÷w÷w÷w÷w÷w÷w÷w÷ótw÷wtw÷w÷wtwtwtó÷ó÷ó÷ó÷ótó÷ó÷ótó÷ótótótótó÷ótótwúwúótó÷ >> when you put pornography onwúwú the internet for children andó÷ all the rest of it whether it's hollywood or the businesses,ó÷ót you're right, there are corrupt human beings that do that.wúót and i'm against that.wtót and you and i were opposed naftaópó÷
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and these others. but only in partial defense ofótó÷ business guys when i traveled the company in '92 and '96, iwúwp talked to textile guys. i don't wantwú to go overseas. the guyó÷ over the road moved his factory to mexico, to china, they're undercutting me.ótó÷ if i don't move my factory, i'mó÷wú finished. i blame ideological freewúwú traders. i blamed them, and i used to beó÷ót one of them. milton friedman and i werewpót friends and said you're doing the devil's work. i was opposed to free trade.ó÷ót so i agree with you on that.wpwp my only defense of some of theseó÷ó÷ business guys is, look, i workwúwú for this company and i've gotwpwp to save my company.wúóú but as someone has said, theóúóp problem, ralph is this.ódwú the vital interests of the eyeswúót eyes -- united states, they used
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to be the same in this country.ótót they've diverged.wúwú their interests and look, ifó÷wú what's good for general motors isóú moving its factoriesó÷wp overseas, then what's good forwq general motors isn't good forwqwq the united states of america (the same thing with our solar industry. taxpayers funded solar r and, the, and now the factories areó÷óú moving to china.wúwú >> but with let me ask you wható÷wú you think of the solution iwpwú proposed.ó÷wú again, i think republicans in the period from lin can throughó÷wú coolidge, for example, there arewúóú rough customers, you had someótót robber barons in there.ótót republicans said, look, the taxes -- this is the greatestótwú market in the world x these guys are going to pay an entranceóúó÷ fee.wúwú and they had tear i haves of 30wú andót 40%.wú what i would do on allwúw÷ manufacturers coming into the unitedó÷ states, i would say a 30%wpó÷
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tariff 2.a 5 trillion in imports, take that 600 billionópwp and from those tariffs,wpwp eliminate taxation onwpwp manufacturers who start up or who produce in the united states. wúóúwpwúwpwúwúwpwpwpwpwúwpwpwpwpwpwúwúwpwp wú ópwú wúwúwúwú wp wp ópópópópópóp wpwpwpwú wúwp wp wp wpwpwpwpwpóp wp wúwpwp wpwpwpwpwpwúwpwpwúwpópópópwpwúóúwúóú ópwúwpópwpóp ópwpwpwpwpwp wpwúwpwúwpwúwúwú wpóú wpwp wp wpwpwpwpwpwpwúópwpópópwpwpópwpwpwp wpwpópwú ópwpwpwúwp o%o! >> actually, some liberals favor a social tariff.o! when these products come fromo!o! basically, anti-competitive countries because they compresso!o! their labor.o!o! >> right. >> can you have it across the board. >> the social tariff, the problem with that is and even
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the problem with the congress,x saying, you know the chinese -- you know forget what the chinese are doing. their doing what's in their interest. we can't control what you're doing, but we can control the products coming into this cup. >> on that point to show you how you've changed you basically said in this book we should have no conflict with china or russia. we're actually disrespecting russia because they've dopeo% everything since the collapse of the soviet union --o! >> i want to tell you diswhrsh do and yet we have 12 aircraft carriers which the beltway guyso! are saying is needed to projecto% american power you know what the next country that has care craft carriers? >> italy has two. >> and the japanese have one, and they got the parts from the russians, didn't they? >> so explain -- the ukraine actually. ex345eu7b, i thought it was
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quite interesting how you dealt/h concisely with the way we were dealing with russia after thew fall of the soviet union. >> ronald reagan, he had a lot of luck but he was a good man and in many ways a great president. he began by saying this was an evil empire, they lie, cheat and steal. there were strokes all over the department of o state. at the end of his administration, he's walk think red square and he's walk arm in arm, and the cold war ended without a war. and it was a blood bless victory. i said at the time, do not move russia into nato.
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>> we move the nato alliance which is designed to fight russia and europe and moved it right up onto their front porch and almost in the house. i opposed that. i said it was a terrible mistake. and then we had some people go oaf there, and they helped loot that place. and that's why you got putin who's a tough customer and a nationalist. and my view is russia does not threaten -- the united states doesn't threaten their military. they don't threaten us. it's time for the europeans to defend ourselves. they're as rich as we are, they've got as many people, and that's what i would do. >> bring the soldiers back. >> the germans are going to -- >> 55 years after world war -- >> what is going on? and i would say the same thing to the south koreans. you know, when i was a kid and you were a kid we knew a lot of guys over there in korea.
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what are we going with 16,000 or 20,000 folks in korea? youyou have a population twice as great. we're not going to leave our guys as hostages you guys are the first responders in the war. americans are not going to be the first to die period. the japanese, 65 years get over it guys. you've got 1 president you spend -- 1% you spend on war but you're going to have to be the first responders. >> the drums are being beaten to raise china. a growing menace by the militarists. >> right. >> what's your take on china? in the book you say we have no conflict with china. >> i'll tell you i was against finish and it was for economic and strategic reasons. i was oppose today the trip to china when mr. nixon was there,
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and i didn't want like what -- they called me in there and said they had a communique and so i said, you know, i'm suspicious of china in terms of i do believe the chinese see themselves as replacing the united states, and they're going to play the role in the 31st sent -- the 21st century. so i think we have been building them up. where'd they get the money ralph? i'm more apprehensive of them. we don't want a war with them, and i think the way we managed the cold war i do think the chinese have ambitions. they told us get out of the taiwan with strait out of the east china sea and out of the yellow sea. and these are our territorial waters. >> yeah, you know, they look at
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it this way. what if they had aircraft carriers off of long island sound. >> yeah we'd be miffed. >> let me go through some of the things in this book in more rapid fashion. iran. you debunk iran as a threat. again, it's being built up as a major exist existential menace. >> i did say there's a plot toót blow up the ambassador for saudiótót arabia with this character downótót there who's a womanizer a bigótót drinker, a smoker, a loud mouthótót guy who is a used car salesmanótó÷ and they've got him as this keywdwd guy in the conspiracy.ótót so he goes to the mexican cartelótót and happens to run into a deót agent, and he did get some moneyótót from iran, but they sent it toót the fbi account, apparently.ótót [laughter]ótót so i said, this thing looks like itót was worked up by a couple ofótót interns at langley.ót
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but it looks like a stingót option.ótót you see the neo-cons. this is an act of war.ótót let's go after them.ótó÷ so i to think there's a real move to have this country go toót war against iran, andó÷ i think that would be a terribleótót mistake.ótót this bub i agree with -- in one i agree with brzezinski. and, frankly, i would be --ót look, richard nixon engaged theót chinese, he engaged some realótót monsters.ót mao's the greatest maas murders in history. and nixon did that because you have to do those things. ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ó÷ó÷ótótótótótótótwtótótótótwúótwtwúótótótwúótw ótótótó÷ó÷ó÷ótótótódódódódótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótwúwúótótótótwúó÷wúótótwúótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ótó÷ótótótótó÷ó÷ótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótódótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótwdótwdó÷ótó÷ótw0ótw0 >> so i think the united statesótót should engage the iranians toótót try to prevent them from thatótót going nuclear.ót
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i'm not sure they want to go nuclear. i don't think the americanótód intelligence agencies have noótót firm data so i would engageótót them. i would take a looótk at thatótót turkish brazil proposal, you know? is and also, look, they're not a threat to the united states ofót america, for heavens sake.ótót we've got thousands of --ótó÷ >> they haven't invaded anybody in 250 years. but they have been invaded --o! >> with our support. >> putót the shoe on the other foot. >> they're scared, though,ótót they're scared of us. >> well, i think they are.ótót i believe they are, and they were very apprehensive when this storyót broke.ót i think it was -- i bet theyótót thought it was a pretext for theótót americans to come after them.ótót the israelis got hundreds ofót atomic bombs, and who's theót existential threatót to whom? the us israelis are running theótót
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test bombs into greece. if i were the iranians, i wouldót be looking very closely at thatwdwd quite frankly. i don't know that the iraniansót are going to doót that.ót suppose they did wild a nuclear bomb.ótót the israelis would put theirótót nuclear arsenal on a hair trigger. >> like who's going to deny that? >> right right. >> you know what's interesting? in 60 some years since israel
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was created by the united nations, there's never been a hearing where the israeli peace advocates who are now off foreign generals, foreign security people have never been invited to give the other side. and they had a large number of israeli support. the resolution with a two-stateót solution.ótót >> let me say this, i sometimes read the israeli press and thereótwú is far more dissent and argument and discussion inót israel over which course they should take, i think than you find in the united states of america,ót quite candidly, youót know? >> but the pal ten yangs -- >> moving ships think the basras and guys said, look we
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detected nook lahr on the ships. what changed my mind is i'm a great believer in ethnonationallism, as you know from the book. when the palestinians stood up i said the possibility which i thought of a single state is dead. i mean these people want their own state. they may not have been a people in '73, but there comes a point where the people exist, a new people. and they became not just air rackings -- arabs but palestinians. and once you do that, it has to be expressed in a nation-state. they came to recognize that and they said, we've got to work with this reality because the greatest threat is israel.
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o!o!o!oao!o!o!o!o!o!oao%o!o!o!o!o!o! >> you quote, you say after all u.s. troops in iraq, afghanistan and korea are home the u.s. army will be on the mexican border. for this is where the fate of the republic will be decided, end quote. can you explain that? >> sure. by 2050 the number of hispanics in the united states if we do nothing about immigration or illegal immigration will be 135 million, and they'll be largely concentrated in new mexico, nevada, texas. if that happens the american southwest is as much a part of mexico as it is the united states. i think we become a binational state and a bilingual nation and i don't think the united states survives. you see what happens in kosovo they pull away. and so the question, this is what might be called the national question. i mean mexican folks are good
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folks, and even the illegals work hard. but we're going to have to decide are we going to remain one nation and one people.ótót and i think if we do not getótót control of immigration, if weót continue with óta million and a million and a half and we're talking multicull chullism, iótót think that's one of theótót fundamental problems i see which is the internal breakup of the united states into its component parts. >> see you go further than that. you quote some high mexican officials that seem to think theo!o! southwest -- >> you with respect furtherótót mexican-merch war, were you?ót lincolnót despised it.ót >> well lincoln lost his -- wasó÷ót
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thrown out of congress after oneótót term. >> where yeah.ótót >>ót >> but didn't he say secessionó÷ó÷ was justified lincoln in 1847,ótót '48? he was very much against it.ótót he had the spot resolution. show me the spot where the mexican came in here and shotótót the troops. heo! was very much against it,o!o! you're right.o! but he found out -- he didn't get pack the southwest, did he, when he got in power.ótót >> what's your view as a segwayótót to this discussion?ót >> iót think, i think in a way, i think it was a just war inótót thisceps, i think the texas waró÷ót of rebellion was a just war. these people rose up and theyótót outnumbered the mexicans 10 toó÷ 1, and they took texas out andótót for ten years the mexicans didn'tót try to resteve it.ót and then they said we want to join the united states. itót was a dispute all the way
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down to the rio grande. and so polk sent the troops down to the rio grande, and he said we claim it all a. >> but they want to expand theót territory for slavery. ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótódótó÷ódótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótódótótótótótótó÷ótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótódótótótótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ótótótó÷ótótótótótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótwdótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótwdwúótwdwpótw0w0wdw0wdótw0ótw0ótótótó÷ótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ótótótótwdótótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ótó÷ótótótótó÷ódótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótwtótótótótótótótótótwúwpótótótótó÷ótótótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ó÷ó÷ó÷ó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ódótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótótó÷ótótó÷ótótótótótótótótóto!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!n!n%n!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o!o! >> the greatest state departmento!o! agent ever who took the entire -- >> before we takeót a break, do youwd think that mexican nationalism really has designsótó÷ on -- >> listen,ót something like 56% of the mexicans, i'm fourth notótwd sure -- believe that the southwest by all rights belongs
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to them. i think they believe as theyót move in gradually the numbersót will become as i said socially and culturally a part of theót southwest, and some of themótót quite candidly leave with the,ótót that it will be as much a part of mexico as the united states.ó÷ót they get the benefits and the rest of it.ó÷ót yeah look, i don't think they're all benign in their purposes in mexico city. >> we'll be right back after the break. >> on the go? "after words" is available through itunes and xml. visit and click podcast and listen to "after words at while you travel.ótót >> pat, you make some prettyótót insend yea statements in the
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bookód and i want to go through them and put them in a largerótót context.ótód you're half scotch-irish, i understand.ótót >> one-half german, one-forth scotch/irish. >> you know when the irish poured into its -- the united states, they were called high school gans lazy, drunkards, polluting the -- >> the vast majority of street crimes are black and hispanic. don't you think the vast majority of corporate crimes are white? >> yeah. >> okay. so you missed -- you left that out. see, if you were strengthening
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your argument, there's a lot of preventable violence occupational disease and infections -- >> let me tell you look, i think corporate criminals ought to go to prison, but the point i?h was making, one of the points i was making is there's real objection. i know a lot of --?h >> i know you make that point. >> so 98% according to the guy that runs the cabs cabs are hispanic african-american combined. 98% of the assaults and murders of cab drivers are done by black and brown folks, right? so if it's 39 to 1 that would explane why the cab driver might say let's pass by the person of color and pick up the corporate crook. >> as you know a lot of crime is based on drugs and the war on drugs which has been attacked by both right and left including
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milton freed match. >> i've got milton friedman in there. >> for example, there have been studies showing black teenager, white teenager caught with drugs, five times more likely the black teenager goes to jail. so aside from the way the statistics reflect these kinds of distortions, do you think the high percentage of crime by blacks and hispanics -- street crime, not corporate crime -- reflects something in their character? is it race or is it class deprivation? >> well, i think the -- i think this. i grew up in washington d.c. we had 400,000 black folks, 00,000 white 230ebgs, you didn't have crime in those days like the crime you've got today. i think one of the main problems is the total collapse in decomposition of the
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african-american family. you've got kids born now 71% of african-american kids are born to single gals. and, frankly, going back to one of your earlier points the welfare state has taken the place of the father in the home. and all those welfare benefits and programs and the rest of it have not presvelted the decomposition of the family. i think they may have contributed to it. so i think it is a matter, it is certainly a matter of the social situation in which these kids live. it's a matter also of the decline of religion. i've got two chapters in there. you know people -- thai got no internal resistance or opposition. >> let me just point out f all these people had jobs and the mix works were don't and they with respect rats, and there flrve 1234r06789dz 1234r50eu6r789sd 123w4r5eu6789s gliempletsz gliempleth
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gliempletdz glienchth sphwhrienchtszwpw0ótwpwúwúwpwpwúw0w0w0wpwpwpwpw0w w0wúw0w0w0w0w0w0w0wúw0wpw0wpw0w wpwpwpo!owo!o!o!o!o!o!oqo!o!o!wpwúwúoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoq >> i would attribute it more too!oa the collapse of the family the collapse of religion and things like that yes. >> they all go together.
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the thing that you have to worry about this book is they're going to want to anticipate you as bigoted and racist. >> tell me about it, ralph. >> there are two parts two sections in there that are semi-tragic and semi-humorous. in your zeal to cover all ethnic groups -- >> right. >> -- you alight on the poorer boy in new york. and you're trying to show the ethnic priority is over the american priority. >> exactly. >> so they wallet today go to england to compete in the soccer or match and they qualitied to go to on an iroquois passport. first native americans have certain --
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>> it's overwhelmingly a unifying force for whatever -- >> no, i agree. >> let me tell you, there are unifying forces i didn't cover in the books. one of them is sports. espn, it is a religion. >> corporate commercial culture. >> the nfl -- >> exactly. >> and economics is one thing that does unite folks in sports
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but these forces pulling worlds and continue innocents and countries -- continents and countries apart, barack obama said it himself, he says the wars today are not between nations, they are within nations. >> but in the united states, the corporate commercial culture as you say they make icons out of minorities sports, music actors actresses. ingoqthat is a dynamic.osoq >> but that's free interwhat are you going to do? >> it's reducing these ethnoclasses that you think are disintegrating america. >> there's no doubt people have in common -- >> let's go out there, we're all shoppers. that's what unites us.oqoq we shop together. >> that's what bush after 9/11 he said shut up and slop. [laughter] here's another one.o% this one, i know a little bit about this. black farmers.
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very hard. after the civil war they had añ! few million acres and it started declining after world war i if because of the most odious discrimination on support structures favoring white farmers. i mean, it was so crude, and it was done by the county agents who were whites. >> they're all appointed. >> right. and you were upset because after years and years of litigation delay and a lot of these farmers in their 80s and 90s -- >> how much -- >> got 50,000 bucks. and the point is they were dispossessed of their -- >> did they all prove they were dispossessed -- >> they were dispossessed, and they had to sell out.n! so now you're down to a few tens of thousands of acres of black farmers. and, of course, the records disappeared, they didn't exist. >> 50 grand. >> but they knew from the land
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grant. in your next edition. >> all right. they got a billion dollars or something -- >> but compare today 50 greers of i didn't discrimination. >> they went down to florida. are there there any his hispanic farmers who got oned?o% >> it comes from the county agents' discrimination. >> we had all that many hispanic farmers? >> in the southwest there were, yeah. >> but they went to florida they couldn't find any. >> mostly i mean when you consider what is at stake over 50 60 years do the arithmetic. anyway i don't want to belabor it but i do want to point it out. >> i gather that's it. >> define catholicism, decline of christianity makes up a lot of this. >> there's two chapters.
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>> here's what i don't want understand. it's not all kilt. let's take the situation of bethlehem in the west bank. oqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqosoqoqoqoqoqosoqososososoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqosoqosoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqoqñ!oqououo!o!o!oaoqoror/r/r/r/r/r/p/p/p/p >> you think they would have an exception. but the vatican and you know this probably better than i because robert novak wrote two
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columns, the vatican's very upset. they're negotiating with israelis all the time, access to holy places and so on. but they haven't really spoken out. now, you know, the israelis blasted their way to protect the wailing wall in 1967. and where is christian deny d. >> right. >> they -- >> well, i take your point. robert novak was a good friend of mine. i haven't been over in the west papg bank since '84. who was the mayor then? he was a christian and good friend of bob strauss. >> where is the religious nationalism? >> where's the moral authority? i don't disagree with you ralph? i think you ought to stand up frankly, for the palestinian
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groups. ralph, look, look at all the christians. there's 17 million christians in that part of the rld who. i will say this they're not being persecuted there like the cops are in egypt or the asyrian catholics in iraq. they're victims of to grams, they're victims of persian cute cute -- persecution.
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osoqosoqosososososoqoqoq >> very peaceful christian community.oq >> and they're terrified. if this disintegrates, they're going to be slaughtered or exiled. >> well, the christians are very successful in syria and they're protected by assad and his son. and i heard the motto over there is when assad goes it's the christians to beirut and the -- [inaudible] to the wall. so i'm not sure this is all that liberal society that's going to merge out of any of these places. but clearly one of the factors, ralph, is rising militancy in islam. i think they're looking to europe as the dying continent and they're exactly right.>x and>h the europeans can't provide>h>h enough service workers to take>h>h
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care of>h their aging shrinking dying populations, and i think the folks are going to be moving across the mediterranean into europe -- >> it's a huge backlash against>h>h colonialism and invaders. you don't think the u.s. military's going to defeat the taliban. >> no. i think it's going to end veryo! badly. i think the taliban will be>h>h coming back to power. >> general mcchrystal's quoted in your book, they fought us to a draw. >> look, you know, the colonists>h>h took care of the brits. >> it's very hard to see any resistance movement against foreign invaders. >> sure. they lived there. and they're going to stay there. >> now, sometimes when i read this book as i was reading thiswq book there's almost a weeping, wistful quality to it. it's almost as if i could use this analogy you're in the neighborhood, and you have say,
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one ethnic group -- >> right. >> say white anglos with some irish sprinkled in. suddenly, people come in of other ethnicities otherwq reapplication bigs, the kids are running over the grass and the>h>h whole breakdown of this kind of quiet, self-con taind community. because -- >> let me tell -- >> let me finish. >> sure. >> because what's gets me about what you're trying to con clay travel ?reefnts or there ?ree ?oo. ?oo. ?ee. ?reenchts ?rairvetion ?eenchts sphwhierk expwreerks glierveg 123w4r50eu6r7bg whoirchg ?reervetion glierk jeerk sphwhrierchts glierntionz ?rierntionz glierksz sphwhrearksz á
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>> there still exists in their hearts to remain one nation under god by history heritage and language that in america men and women are to be judged not, quote, by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. americans still believe we are all equal in rights not because of where we came from, but because of who we are as americans. so why to you go overboard with this who's white who's not white? do you think justice sotomayor is not white? she looks white to me. >> she's a puerto rican lady. >> yeah. >> let me tell you what i see as the problem.
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there's no doubt as i've said many times before, anybody can be a good american. i think any group can be asimilar assimilated. the enormous numbers of people who have come into this country, never been -- >> well, that was two years ago. 1912 -- >> okay, but now we get the second. >> okay. >> the process of the melting p pot, the parochial schools, the fact we rooted for the same team, all these things the melting pot people are told keep your own faith don't assimilate, be similar the sunni versus the shia, the curds versusñx the arabs, they're all coming apart.>h
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the uighurs versus the chinese. 40% of these tribes are trying to break away. all of these powerful forces even in europe scotland wants to break away, and so what i'm saying is we've thrown out the melting pot, we bring in all these folks from all theseñx places never assimilated and i'm looking around the world, and i'm saying why are we taking this risk with the greatestoa country on earth?oa >> you know, segregation was horrible, the repression of human potential among blacks was terrible, there was a lot of discrimination against women. now, in my harvard law school classo! of -- i entered in 1955.
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>> right.o! >> we had 560 students.oao! we had 1 women. women were never allowed ato! harvard until 1950.oaoa we had 13 out of 560 women.o!o! maybe two blacks and i don't think one hispanic. the hispanics at harvard were usually children of south american dictators.>hñx >> rich kids. >> now, was that a good thing? when you wistfully go back -- >> no, the point i would say here is, look all these -- were these kids, were they raised up in a tradition to be american? when they went into law school with you, and what law school was it? >> hard harvard. >> you're in the top law school. you were kids keep -- were kids kept out of there? if they were kept out and unquaffed guys got in, that's wrong. you read in there white working class kids are the conservative
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and christian kids are the most discriminated kids in these ivy>h league schools. that's what i don't like.ñh look it doesn't bother me that in the nfl african-americans are overrepresented by 500%. why? they got every job they got because of ability, drive, energy and the rest of it. that's the 1950s i remember. and that's, those are the --ñx >> but you wouldn't think this is a nice thing. >> look, if they're discriminated against -- >> of course. >> but if they got better scores than ralph nader, ralph shouldn't have been in there. >> but here's the point. you've got to look into the s.a.t. nonsense.ñh it's a terrible way to screen out or screen in people. it's heavily correlated with --vqvq >> let me ask you -- >> far better are the assessment tests.wq not a, b, cd -- c, d, none of
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the above. harvard, they use these multiple choice which correlated with family income. >> well maybe family income. >> yes. >> my, you know when i was growing up a lot of the guys were very wealthy, maybe theyñh got rich by some scheme or something.>hñh but most of them these lawyers and doctors were very smart people, and that's why they made more money. >> yeah. well anyway i want to go on the on to one other thing here because i think you're overestimating the clashes. i think corporate commercial culture is pervasive, i think -- >> you think it can hold us together. i think a lot of people have assimilated. >> look -- >> you've got extremely bright kids, and they're in school and winning all those spelling bees. >> now where you have the population, they're going to create their own subculture,
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you're right.wqwq they're going to create their own subculture. you remember poll town in croix? it was the early're 80s. it was a 5,000-people community on one side of detroit. and gm said we want to build a cadillac plant, and we wouldoror like it here. it was 450 acres, okay? >> right.or >> the black mayor went along with it, so you had a whiteop corporation, black mayor wentop alook withop it.op so did the uaw.osos >> right.opop >> the only problem was there were a thousand homes, there wasop 00 small businesses, there wereopos 12 churches, including a beautiful polish-built catholic church -- >> right. >> they took it by eminent domain -- diswhrsh for a -- >> absolutely. >> well, i don't believe in that. >> completely leveled it. >> i don't believe in that. >> they ended up producing about half the jobs they promised -- >> right. >> and the church, because we had people out there trying to
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psi it, john reich ard and others concern. >> right. >> the church was bulldozed. at 5:00 the police came they cleared out the parishioners and the priest. they bulldozed this beautiful church that early polish immigrants built. you know where that church was? it was where the shub ri of the parking lot of the general motors plant was. >> i don't believe in that. >> here's the point. >> right. >> that community was half black and half polish and eastern european live anything very small but clean prepared houses, little flowers and>x gardens. >> sure. >> peacefully. >> sure. look, i grew up -- >> but who disintegrated it? >> the politicians did if they granted -- how can you grant general motors the right to tearñx down private homes? eminent domain, you've got the interstate highway system,
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sometimes you can take lands for private purposes but i would yee with you 100% -- >> upheld by the michigan supreme court and reeppedl-- >> we don't have much more time but i do want to ask you. you said religion, race culture and tribe are the four horsemen of the coming apocalypse. would you add corporatism to that? >> there's only four ralph. [laughter] >> okay. would you say there's five? >> no. i'll tell you -- >> would you say that corporatism is part of that? >> i think -- look corporatism is, you know what it has become i'll tell you what look, religion is the basis of ethics and morality, and when that goes, and i think you've got powerful corporations, they
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are -- they're a lot more dangerous in many ways than individuals. no doubt about it. and do i believe in rampant corporatism? no. i do agree, i don't agree with -- you got a world bank? yeah, world economic -- like the fed? i don't agree with him on that. but when he did say the worship of capitalism is idolatry, i do agree with that. i do agree. i believe in free enterprise the free enterprise system. and i think it's the greatest in the world, but when corporations get that powerfulful they do have to be regulated. >> well, we're out of time unfortunately. thanks to c-span, we had a discussion that wawpt -- wawnt made up of sound bites. >> thank you very much, ralph. we need a second battle of seattle.
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that was "after words," booktv's signature program in which authors of the latest nonfiction books are interviewed by journalists legislators and others familiar with their material. after words airs at 10 p.m. on saturday, 12 and 9 p.m. on sunday and 12 a.m. on monday. go to and click on after words in the booktv series and topics list on the upper right side of the page. >> and 240u on your screen is ely sas low who is a staff writer with "the washington post." he's written a new book, it's called "ten letters: the stories americans tell their president." what are the ten letters? >> ten of the letters that come into president obama every day and really they're a reflection from across the country. republicans and democrats, fourth graders grandmothers.
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it's this really democratic collection that comes into him that he then reads and usually writes back to one or two letters a day. >> so how are the letters delivered to him? are they carefully edited or can they be pretty frank with him as well? >> they can be pretty frank with him, but getting the letters to his desk requires an army. they moved it off site to this sort of secret office build anything downtown d.c. where 1500 volunteers work every cay to sort of take these 20,000 letters and categorize them by topic, are they positive or negative, and they make sure the ten the president gets reflect those numbers. so he sees usually about five positive five negative letters. there are plenty that start out, dear moron, and others that are very positive. >> how did you get access to his mail? he was receives about 20,000


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