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tv   Book TV  CSPAN  November 20, 2011 10:00pm-11:15pm EST

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also, i am not sure of comparative history each time i can complain about linq and comedy comes to my mind. instinctively, this connection between lincoln and gagne may appear to be simple. it takes a devoted student of history, a gifted storyteller, a scholar and intellectual to help us develop a better appreciation of these two great seekers, whose legacies transcend cultural boundaries. we have just that kind of a person in our midst. professor rajmohan gandhi is a
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passionate advocate of human rights, the rights of minorities in india in particular and freedom of speech. he led the indian delegation to the human rights commission in geneva in 1990. he also led the moral rearmament movement in india called initiators of change and an effort to battle against corruption and inequalities in india. he was the chief editor of the newspaper called hume calling kurds, especially during a period when free speech was is under attack in india. in addition to active engagement in public life, rajmohan gandhi is also a prolific writer. at one point in his career, he was and editor of a newspaper called indian express in madras. history is his passion. he is the author of biographies on balk by god the, "a tale of
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two revolts" and several works that advance understanding of south asian history. he is a well sought after speaker all over the world ended a serendipity that brought them here. when i contacted you speak at the lincoln museum, he just released the latest edition of his book entitled, "a tale of two revolts" 1857 in the american civil war. before i hand over the microphone to professor gandhi, a couple trivia about him. in india, we attribute one's achievements to some degree to one's heritage. rajmohan gandhi's lifelong commitment to fight for equal rights is not surprising since he is the grand a mohawk gandhi. his ability to tell the story beautiful prose with elegant
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word play is directly attributable to his grandfather, ishwarchandra vidyasagar a leader and a gifted contributors to english literature, both in english and common languages. president kennedy upon meeting the most similar influences on me. seldom have i heard somebody presenting such precision, clarity and elegance of language. so after listening to representative gandhi recently a small portions of his book, i must say there is something to be said about the effects of lineage. i present to you, professor rajmohan gandhi.
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[applause] >> after all that, my forebears must be wondering how it will perform. thank you so much, president eddie and the association of spring field and i do want specially today and salute director mack of h. for arranging. and i think all of you for coming this evening. now if i live to be 90 years old, i would still be introduced as gandhi's grandchild. it's a blessing on balance. yes, i am required to behave all the time, to answer questions
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patiently, to be on duty throughout, but people are friendly and warm when they know i am gandhi's grandson and this outweighs everything else. in part because i gandhi's grandson, but i hope not only because of that, i have been able to meet in the course of my long life, famous persons like mark luther king junior, john f. kennedy, pope john paul ii, the dalai lama, walt disney and others. i am a lucky guy. yet, to speak here in the abraham lincoln presidential library is an utterly exceptional moment for me. for lincoln has been a hero of mine for my boyhood. his second inaugural, which i read from time to time regularly
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moves me to my deaths each time i read it. at times i asked my class at the university of illinois urbana-champaign weather they have led lincoln's second and i feel. many of my students get embarrassed. i am sure that almost everyone here has read it. to those who have not, i say, please read it. read it slowly, tentatively, two or three times as possible. you will differently at the world around you if you do. it is a joy to me that the indians in springfield and connected areas are helping and hosting the gandhi exhibit in this talk by me around gandhi's birthday. indians like us who live in the united states possessed two amazing heritage is. the indian heritage and the
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american heritage. in many cases, our children or grandchildren are linked by marriage to both heritages. americans who get no gandhi and indians to get to the lincoln can perform a special in which bond with one another, one which will benefit the world as a whole. this is why a major part of my talk this evening will be on lincoln and gandhi. abbott india america link is also while i wrote a "a tale of two himelfarb six. new for the 1876 results are what they thought of it and what people in india at the time thought of the american civil war. i was excited to find that a group of indians in bombay had sent money for union field hospitals during the civil war
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that causes people of indian origin served in the civil war and at least one of them called charles symons serving in company a of the night new hampshire complaints he received a medal in 1864 from the hands of president lincoln. i discovered that americans at the time knew far more about india's 1857 rebellion and indians at the time knew about the american civil war. today, indians he knew about the civil war are many times more numerous than americans who know about the 1857 rueful. throughout 1857, indians revolt was big news in the united states. indeed, an article in a journal published in philadelphia a circuit that quote come of the year 1857 will be henceforth known as the year of 50 balk
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revolt. this is writing in 1857. here in springfield, two missionaries returning from india to america from a program that to joseph moran who had spent 15 years in india and reverend mr. haigh who would escape from the violence of the revolt gave well-publicized talks on india and its rueful during the 1857, 58 winter. these talks, 152 years ago were given here in springfield. on days, during days when as we know from the lincoln log the president to be within the city in his hometown. it is possible that lincoln himself attended one or more of these talks. he certainly heard about them. for his good friend, orville hickman browning, after lincoln was president tells us in his diaries by at the information conveyed to the ranks of the
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kindness of professor dr. brian andersen here at this university center. orville hickman browning tells us in his diary that he heard several of these springfield talks about india 1857, given by these ministers, war and it paid. not only that, warned that for spells in browning's home in springfield and served as pastor of springfield's westminster presbyterian church. the revolt was best talked about in lincoln circle. however, i could not locate any private or public remark about 1857 in india that lincoln may have made. i would envy anyone who can look at such a remark and of course i would be enormously grateful. now this comparative and connected history, "a tale of
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two revolts," explores what was similar in what was dissimilar between india 1857 and the american civil war and how the two events influenced india's subsequent history. and one clear conclusion that emerges from this connected and competitive study is that india at the time, british india at the time and indian india at the time lacked a lincoln like figure. willing to confront the moral question behind slavery and yet anxious to back affiliates of nightmares, lincoln was able to initiate a healing process in the united states. he also helped americans to deflect 32nd inaugural and in other ways on why the civil war had cost so much in life, men and treasure. the india of his time of the
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british empire of his time had no linking equivalent. no one in authority reached out to all sides are looked for the deeper meanings of the clash. remote from the scene in any case, prime minister of england did not even bother to do so. his mind refused to acknowledge that there was an indian side. so that is one of the central lessons of my comparison, the missing fat or india, the lincoln like figure who is not your. we know that lincoln was born in 1809. comedy exactly 60 years later appeared in age therefore, lincoln living half a world away with lake county's grandfather. there was a figure in between, one link to go to an age
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could've been a son to lincoln and a father to gandhi. i wonder if you can guess who i am thinking. leo tolstoy, born 18 years after lincoln and 41 years before gandhi was born. tolstoy move till 19 in 2010. he did not meet her in class or gandhi and exchange several letters to gandhi. that may recall what tolstoy thought about lincoln. in 1908, he was a guest of a tribal chief and a wildly remote area of the northcutt quiches. gathering his family and neighbors, the chief of this tribe has to tolstoy to speak of lincoln in the country in which he lived. as he spoke of his admiration for lincoln he saw the faces from the northcutt quiches were all a globe when he finished his listeners prevented him with a
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wonderful arabian horse. as for condi and tolstoy, the two drew close to each other to correspondents. in 1909, a 4-year-old gandhi were publicly that he had endeavored to follow tolstoy, pharaoh, emerson and other writers besides the masters of indian philosophy, and quote. as of now, emerson and thoreau were lincoln contemporaries. come be created outside of johannesburg are gandhi was in south africa for 20 years as we know. that center was named tolstoy farm by him. when the russians died in november 1910, gandhi's wonderful obituary and external in south africa, indian opinion was entitled vote, the late lamented tolstoy agree. before tolstoy status, and only
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two years after his comments on lincoln, the russians where to gandhi about the passive resistance that gandhi had discussed and has significant 1909 text about the passive resistance that gandhi had discussed and has significant 1909 text tolstoy wrote in a letter that passive resistance as discussed by gandhi was of the greatest importance only for india, but for the whole of humanity. just before he would die, and the last one letter that he wrote, tolstoy wrote again to gandhi said that vicente agra, the nonviolence in this south of south africa provided most weighty practical proof of what he and gandhi together believed. your work in transvaal, which seems to be far away from the center of our world is yet the most fundamental and the most important to us.
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since i am speaking about my grandfather, you should know what he said about his grandfather, lincoln. these are condi's words. written in south africa in 1905, when gandhi was 36 come in the journal that gandhi had started in south africa, indian opinion, the journal was published in english and also in biscotti. in english translation of sentences from gandhi's article in the opinion august 26, 1905. these are condi's words. it is believed that the greatest and noblest man of the last century was abraham lincoln. only a person who is a clear picture in his mind of the america of those days can properly appreciate lincoln's virtues and the services. gandhi continues.
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nobody thought anything wrong and openly selling and keeping them in slavery. the higher the level, the rich and the poor saw nothing strange in owning slaves. religious minded men, pastors alike saw nothing amiss and did not protest. some even encouraged slavery and all taught that slavery was the divine dispensation and that the negroes were bound into it. even those who thought that slavery was wrong remained silent able to assert themselves. even today, gandhi continues, his writing in 1905, stands to hear the accounts of the atrocities inflicted on slaves. they were tied up and beaten, forced to work on the branded and handcuffed. lincoln made and put into execution is resolution to change the idea that man, ideas which had been indelibly carved on their minds.
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lincoln sacrificed his life in order to put an end to the sufferings of others, but lincoln can be said to be still alive for the changes he made in the american constitution are still enforced in lincoln's name will be known as long as america endures. and referring to lincoln's civil advances, gandhi wrote, the language of the powerful speeches that lincoln delivered during the stormy days is sublime. i cannot speak of the lincoln, tolstoy sequence without remembering the next global link in the chain, martin luther king jr. i will not in this talk speak about king, but i will quote from him. he was martin luther king jr. speak and not only come alabama on march 22, 1959.
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the world does not like people at gandhi. it's strange, isn't it quite they don't like people like lincoln. they kill gandhi, the man who had galvanized 400 indians for independence. one of his own fellow hindu subtlety was a little too favorable to us, the muslims. here is the man of love, falling at the hands of a man that he. this seems to be the way of history. they got it never stopped there. the men who shotgun he only shot him into the hearts of humanity. just as when abraham lincoln was shot, for the same reason that gandhi was shot, is the attempt to heal the wounds of a divided nation. secretary stanton said now he belongs to the ages. like lincoln and gandhi, king two when he was shot frustrated
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the assassin's intention. he entered the ages and the hearts of all humanity. let me note the similarities that are quite obvious. both were assassinated on a friday. both were killed acting and deep convictions. in each case whenever a train billing lincoln's body are condi's earthly remains passed by the nation of each stood with grief and reverence. both are brilliant lawyers. each was known for gambling experience. our court and congress, strange were the words generally used also donned a hat and also for the other who is five-foot six and bold, both at arms that were disproportionately long for
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their bodies and both had large flapping ears. some wrote of gandhi that is fat nose pointed downwards and his lower lip pushed up to meet it. the poet who is also a significant figure in an espn story often addressed gandhi as mickey mouse. here is how william howard of the london times described lincoln after calling on him in washington in 1861. soon afterwards, their daring trepidation they lose their regular almost unsteady gait of a towel, cream and considerably over six feet in height with stooping shoulders, long pendulous arms, terminating in hands of extraordinary dimensions, which however far exceeded in proportion by the dimensions of this fee. russell spoke of links weekend
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in rejecting says the mouse is actually pernicious. that is itself a prominent organ stands out from the face of an anxious inquiring air as i was missing missing for some good things in the wind. the eyes dark, full and deeply fatter penetrating the fall of an expression which to tenderness. this is lincoln at age 52. here is gandhi at age 52. as described in the american monthly in july 1922 by an american writer who had met him at mudcats letter. gandhi wrote on the floor to receive me a spare figure in houston blankets a man of middle age or so he appeared, it bareheaded with strong iron grade here, very large ears pierced in the center of the loeb, the chan find a clean-shaven, expression alert, ice penetrating, grants direct,
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he greeted me with gentle courtesy. his english idiom and axons were perfect. when i was seated, he subsided in his blankets again. he was not the least knowledgeable. his inclination was to give me the lead. then there is humor. if callers often notice melancholy in both lincoln and from the comet in each case he also ran into an extraordinary capacity to amuse others and to appreciate life's ironies. lincoln of course was the supreme master of the funny story on the way he responds, accused of being two-faced and politics come he said as he know we have replied, if they had in their face, would i be showing this one? [laughter] gandhi by contrast seldom has ever told a joke. but he always made those in his company laugh william scheier
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referring to a meeting he and a few others had in the final years of his life, which was again sylvia with a comet in no time at all, gandhi had us all laughing and completely at ease. if in this world of personalities there is a single man even half as training is gandhi, i have not met and. in 1924, not long after a huge gandhi led bid got to the world surprise shook british rule in india but then peaked out and landed gandhian prison, this is what condi said after his release from two years in prison. the polling and plan to match and found himself a prisoner in santana, the 90 k. sayre, aimed at the crown of europe and is reduced to the status of a private gentleman.
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god had so willed it. let us contemplate such examples and be humble. here while passing on a fundamental truth, gandhi is also laughing at life in himself. now he didn't aim for a crown, but he said my aim to remove the crown from the british empire and he failed at that time. he is smiling at life. lincoln might've said something similar. that neither gandhi nor lincoln would admit that a defeat is permanent, a defeat would only be temporary, only previewed to the next battle. when they get another instance of gandhi's title on the scores, which reminds one of lincoln's title. in october 1947, a few weeks after india was free, but also partitioned, a hindu warrent gandhi against sheltering, quote, frozen muslim snakes,
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unquote. which would bite on revival. so this is gandhi's reply. to liken a human being however degraded he may be to a snake to justify inhuman treatment is surely a degrading performance. i have known fanatical and respective hindus. lastly, let me for the sake of snake kind correct a comet 86 out of every 100 are perfectly harmless. they are less obvious similarities also. the first of these is their strong folks believe. well before he ran for president, lincoln felt he had something to offer has risen a great and durable question of the age for america coming namely slavery. and gandhi often expressed his awareness that his task was to lead his people to independence.
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offer himself for reelection in 1864, lincoln said that he could just better serve the nation and its meet in paris any new man, unquote. and he added that he was fitter than the others available to reunite his bitterly divided people. in 1932, gandhi said that like a pregnant woman who takes care of herself for the sake of the tv in her room, he looked after his own fitness for the sake of the independence of india that he was carrying inside of him. lincoln and gandhi are also similar in their physical proximity to violence and more. but were fated to witness lots of it. lincoln was critical of america's 1846 war with mexico. lincoln was critical of america's 1846 war with mexico.
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read in mendacity, and quote come hadron mexico into that war and he suspected that a desire for new territories or slavery might have been part of read and mendacity, and quote, have drawn mexico into that war and he suspected that a desire for new territories or slavery might have been part of the american motivation. not forgetting that the revolution in the 1770s and 1780s overthrew british rule and brought independent america those been an affair, lincoln wrote that revolutionary war, quote, breathed forth famine, swam in blood and wrote on fire and long, long after i've been scared into what continue to break the sad silence that ensued. despite his grasp of the consequences of violence, lincoln had to preside over what remains america's bloodiest war to date. despite his passion against violence in over three decades of presenting an alternative to violence, gandhi could not prevent the killings of 1947,
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the year of india's and pakistan's independence which took about half a million lines. and this is the remainder of the irony of life and of history. lincoln and gandhi both see the symbols of reconciliation, sympathy and justice spent the final years of their lives amidst great violence. gandhian lincoln both fought for national unity. lincoln to preserve the union, gandhi to preserve for its resonance with prescriptions than others. moreover, gandhi struggled untouchability and caste in india is comparable to lincoln's trouble over slavery in the u.s.a. if slavery and the union in whichever order receipt consent, counterparts took on his consent over cost a national unity, we should also remember that gandhi had a third concern, india's independence. so gandhi had three typical
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goals compared with lincoln's too difficult goals. if gandhi was a kind of indian lincoln, we should add that he was like a lincoln in the time of washington, called upon to play the role that at the same time first in the 16th presidents played. we know of lincoln's insistence that the union is much older than the constitution. it has to come as formed by the articles of association of 1774, continued by declaration of independence in 1776 and further matured by the articles of concentration in 1778. as lincoln pointed out code of the declared objects for establishing the constitution was to form a more perfect union. it had to be strengthened, but the union was 30 there. but it was more than a legal question. lincoln believed in the value with a purpose for the united states of america. critics and defenders alike have acknowledged lincolns almost
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mystical attachment to the union. it was said that the only thing what passion or infatuation and the man with a passion for the union of these states. i'm quoting from kerry wilson. to gandhi to the unity of india mattered a is very great deal. she wanted to hindus and muslims to live together in a united india. he also wanted in a single india and into untouchability into the notion of high and low. india's hindu muslim question in the 1930s and 1940s, which was resolved to india's 1947 partition was similar in many ways to north, south to buy that lincoln in the u.s.a. finally dissolved to the civil war. to claim the south of the alliance of rebels, they can want to work instead, crash with the size rebellion and the union was preserved. while nds, hindus and muslims had a great deal in common as is also true of the north and south
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here, gandhi did not for a passion advocate war or compulsion for keeping india warm. before seeing what he did not, let me give you a flavor of his arguments in his passion or indian unity. at the end of 1939, gandhi first-rate cinema from home encompassing to be called pakistan was being demanded because it was claimed muslims and hindus were two nations. this is what gandhi said. twice and yet not one nation? was that not one during the mobile. as india composed of two nations? by only two? are not christians at the nation, far sees forth and so on? are muslims or china separate from other chinese? other muslims living in a different nation from the other english click power the muslims of the punjab different from the fix. are they all not punjabis drink
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in the same water, breathing the same air, drain subsidence of the same soil? what is there to prevent them from following their prospective religious? are they a separate nation? or the muslims of india alone to be a separate nation distinct from the others? is bengali muslim speaks the same time as the hindu bengali does, use the same food, has the same amusements as his hindu neighbor, and the way we suggested a partition is the way it of strife condy continues. live and let live on mutual forbearance and toleration is the law of life. that is the lesson i learned from the quran, the bible and the keypad. then the man who champion the homeowner pakistan was the president of the muslim lake of a brilliant lawyer, seven years younger than gandhi and link lake county to the crew shot the speaking parts of the subcontinent. one difficulty faced with that thumb on the hindu site had also
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argued before the muslim league came up with its demand for pakistan that hindus and muslims were two nations. but let us look at work on his passion for united india, a passion always joined us in the case of lincoln with argument. it is worse than anarchy to partition india, whose every corner is populated by hindus and muslims living side-by-side. it is like cutting up a living body into pieces. the county can see the separation was possible. if the vast majority of indian muslims feel that they are not one nation with hindu and other brethren, who appealed to resist them? i know no nonviolent method of compelling obedience of 18 million muslims to the will of the rest of india however possible a majority of the rest may represent, not ready to coerce india's muslim population , gandhi offered the
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muslim lake is sort of separation. the muslims must have the same right to self determination he said that the rest of india has. we are at present a joint family. any member may claim independence. during a series of 14 talks in 1944, gandhi proposed autonomy from muslim majority areas after independence if the muslim lake where pro-independence commensurate with indian national congress, but did not reject the offer. when this happened, gandhi did not lead the march violent or nonviolent against the creation of pakistan. all of the political colleagues for 30 plus years for the independence which would be indefinitely delayed. the bulk of india's muslims seem to want to partition and after
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march 1947, the bulk of india's hindus and sikhs also seemed ready to accept it. and the crucial province of punjab, hindus and sikhs have put job demanded partition. gandhi acquiesced. his assassination, which took place five and a half months after indian pakistan emerged as free as separate nations cannot at the hands of muslims who demanded pakistan, but at the hands of a group of hindus who saw him as a friend of the songs. gandhi's final go unsuccessful attempt to prevent partition was actually quite lincoln mike. historians have referred to lincolns quality assassinating rivals by giving them key positions and responsibilities. this is just what gandhi wish to try with his great rival. he wanted nothing less than the opposite of the prime minister of united india to be offered. but gandhi his closest colleagues opposed the idea has
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amounted back that was given the task of ending british rule in india and was committed to the solution. the proposal was never to know. at least one leading juneau scholar, stanley wolford thinks that he would've accepted the offer if it had been made. who can know for sure? gandhi did not india send deny pakistan in part because they favored it. in 1947 coming on the street element in india defied pakistan. it was not mrs. gandhi and nonviolence came in the way of the nation of people keen on preventing on doing pakistan. true coming political party known as the hindu month suppiah for years but viso barker was set in 1937 that hindus and muslims were two nations oppose partition and strong language. but the hindu? the strength to implement and in
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many cases what it seems to want was not hindu muslim equality in the united india, but hindu domination. apart from public opinion, there was another reason for gandhi not to fight under deaths in pakistan. he could not invite the terrible killings that were bound to follow his dad in a fast to prevent pakistan. when partition seemed inevitable, but with heralded by muslim violence, reconciliation between hindus and pakistan became gandhi's chief goal. in this task on his actions and words were again lincolnesque. here's what he said in the middle of january 1948, will announce you a fast i would not end until the rights of the beleaguered muslim minority capital in delhi had been restored. that he believed could trigger a restoration of minority rights in both india and pakistan.
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this is gandhi speaking on 12, january 1948. the fast begins from the first notes of arrow. the period is indefinite. it will land when and if i am satisfied that there is a reunion of cars or communities brought about without any outside pressure, but from an awakened sense of duty. the reward will be the regaining of india's dwindling prestige. i flatten my cells for the belief that the loss of her soul by india will mean the loss of the hope of the 18 storm tossed in hungry world. let us compare these last two lines with lincoln's famous words proposing the emancipation of slaves in a state of the union address on one december 1862. in giving freedom to the slaves, we assure freedom to the free.
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honorable alike in what we give what we preserve, we shall save on the last best hope of earth. america may be the last best hope of lincoln that's not destroyed a total. the loss of a soul by india will mean the loss of the whole 18 storm tossed an angry world is gandhi. each is wrestling for his nation's soul. each is also fighting for humanity as a whole. two days later condi said, delhi is the capital of india, the heart of india. all hindus, christians and to people in this country from kenya commodity to posh meat meat, from karachi to the sun have an equal right to it. therefore anyone who seeks to drive out the muslims is delhi's enemy and therefore india's enemy. continuous gandhi, when i was young i never even read the
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newspapers. i could read english at difficulty and it was not satisfactory. i have had the dream ever since then that if they hindus, sikhs, pharmacies, christians and muslims could live in amity, not only a large cold, but in the whole of india they would all have a very happy life. if that dream could be realized even now when i'm an old man on the verge of death, my heart with dance. children would then frolic enjoyed. it was like this picture of gandhi when he could dance. his difficult terms to keep that to save gandhi's life, people are willing to put aside their anger and gandhi was able to break his fast after six days. in line with gandhi's convictions, the constitution of india to get rejected the idea that the new nation would be hindu india and muslim pakistan. those of you and was smaller than gandhi had it, it was in
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india for all its inhabitants and not only to its hindu majority. if lincoln preserved the union, gandhi also preserve a union of india, which is india's full and correct name, assuring ducal rights to all in its space. in his second and not grow, lincoln said referring to the north and the south, both are the same bible, pray to the same god, each invokes his aid against the other. likewise, gandhi pointed out that though hindus and muslims used a variety of names for the almighty and the all compassionate, they were both calling on the same god. i will conclude by trying very quickly to answer two questions. one, whited indians call can't be the father of the nation? two, what was the secret of his global impact? it was gandhi's great political opponents 16 july 19,441st
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address gandhi at the father of the nation. for years her night t. know nine, when he returns barash, if not earlier, gandhi seemed to attempt to adopt all the people of india as his family, wanting to feel their burden as his own burdens. his wife, senator grandchildren did not always approve of this, but many people in india came to feel that in gandhi did not merely a leader who stood up to the empire, but a friend who wanted to dry their tears. indians of all kinds seem to feel this, not just the hindus that kobe was one. not just a gujarati speakers of whom he was fine. gandhi's 20 years in south africa, where he was lucky enough to find a community of indians from different parts were of immense help to him. there he found indians who spoke different languages, different religions belong to different costs. patiently and skillfully, gandhi organized south africa's indians
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into a community. in south africa come he had found all of india but on a liberatory scale. the gandhi who at age 45 finally returned to india in 1915 had already built relationships with indians of all kinds. in the years that followed, he found brilliant participants on nonviolent struggle, for nonviolent struggle across all of india in one part after another. crisscrossing india by train and often on foot, he bonded with poor indians in which indians, with hindus, but also with muslims. with the so-called untouchables and the children of god as he called them, but also with the so-called past hindus appeared with indians in bengali karachi and on track, northwest frontier province in every portion of the large land. in the process, he also held indians about time to find a
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relationship with one another. indians who had been strangers to one another or had prejudices towards one another were now willing to join hands. it was gagne's contribution to this consciousness of oneness as an ian, this feeling of belonging to a family that the botched both recognized when in 1944 he called gone be the father of the indian nation. moral courage, i believe, was the secret of an impact on the world, speaking truth to power to the umpire, he also spoke truth to his own site. here i will give you this example from the year 1918. in april of that year, on the 13th of april at night teaming team, 380 or more indians, hindus, sikhs, muslims were all killed in 10 minutes and the
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worst single incident in british ruled india. there was the english general who ordered soldiers to shoot without warning the crowd goes massed in the space with walls on three sides and he and his soldiers occupied the only site where escape was possible and in 10 minutes, 380 more people were killed. this was the famous jolly wild massacre. a few days before this incident, five englishmen had been killed in the same city, the holy city of the sikhs in india. at the end of the year 1918, the indian national congress, the vehicle of the freedom movement held its annual freshened in the city to take advantage of the
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strong feeling that at the very honest. another prominent indians, indian leaders are president, gandhi was only back four years from south africa, but already by now he was a well-known figure. virtually every well-known political figure in india was present at this rally. he was just with the return to prison and are ready to go back there. the great theater as they are. the man who said that maras is my birthright. any person to say does there come the irish woman who had made india her home in indian home rule provides mission. two years previous yet been the the first woman president of the indian national conference. before the session is a resolution, which has had two
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parts. we first spoke of the massacre. the governor pulling job, but presided over the state of the master to place should resign. the general who ordered the massacre would face in government. strong criticism of what would happen in that massacre. in the second paragraph of the resolution said, we also criticize and deplored the action of the indian crowd that resulted in the killing of five englishmen. so there was discussion on this resolution. a person after 3 so there was discussion on this resolution. a person after person came to the podium and said what we like the first part, although would like it to be stronger, but we cannot accept the second part. one person i can and set before the crowd, no son of an indian mother would have jacked to the second part of this resolution. and the suggestion was that this
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irish lady might have drafted it. after all, she was white. in those days, anyway person was regarded as an english person. today in america, any white person is regarded as an american. but they are, no son of an indian mother could have drafted the second part of that resolution. so there was a vote on the second part was defeated in the first part was accepted. the next day, gandhi asked to speak to this great gathering and the chairperson said that condi wants to speak and there were murmurs. why should they be allowed to speak again? with discuss this question before. and gandhi then said, i've been thinking deeply and for a long about this remark that no son of an indian mother could have drafted the second part of the resolution because i have
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drafted it. many said after thinking long and deeply about it, i came to the conclusion that only the son of an indian mother would have drafted the second part of the resolution also. and there was someone present and who later became a well-known political figure and literary giant coat came to jesus present they are came when she wrote that on defense focuses his whole life depended on the passage of the second part of the resolution. and after he ended his speech, all of us were at his feet in the resolution was reconsidered and past editors has been drafted, including deploring of the killings by the indians of the five englishmen. by the indians of the five englishmen. by the indians of the five englishmen.
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that, he gave his stamp of honor to the indian freedom of mint that the british found absolutely irresistible. and it was visibility and gandhi to speak the truth to his own site and not just to decide that he was fighting back to my mind was the secret of the impact he made on the world is without a conclusion that thank you very, very much. [applause] >> professor gandhi will take some questions. for the sake of the tv, i request people of questions to please come here to the microphone.
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>> as you please comment on another commonality between lincoln and gandhi. it appears even after pakistan defeated, -- got permission from him that condi would go to india and take back muslims from pakistan back to india were left in india and that march would have been much greater than his delhi march. so i wondered if you could comment on that. >> yes, i think the question takes a very interesting point that before gandhi was assassinated, he had made this plan, which china had accepted, the general cover of pakistan
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and gandhi was all set to visit pakistan and to negotiate a settlement of the deep divisions between the two countries. but that visit never could take this because gandhi was assassinated and he rightly suggested that that also is a very lincoln link suggestion on gandhi's part that he would go and try and find some kind of the resolution. >> both your grandfather and abraham lincoln grew as human beings. they evolved and reached greater status towards the end of their lives. did you want to comment on the personal growth and challenges they hadn't even dean's comparing them perhaps?
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>> well, that's absolutely valid and i think a useful point to make that there was an evolution in gandhi's life and there is an evolution in the enslaved. this is true in a personal sense. also true in some of the great issues confronted. we all know that lincoln's position on slavery grew and evolved and became more radical that time. and the same is true in the case of gandhi's position on costs and untouchability. those are great issues and they need a good discussion. but it's absolutely right to make this point that there was an evolution in the position that they took over the years and decades. so i am glad at this point that i could not include for lack of time has been made in this part of the discussion.
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>> questions with condi and lincoln, but it's a little -- it focuses on the cultural aspects here. i am interested in the relationship and similarities of the different between caste and race. you know, it's a sleeper in the u.s. and india and how gandhi and lincoln dealt in similar ways in different ways. or is that too complex a question? >> i'm sorry. no, i think it's not possible to give a short answer to your important question, but yes, now as we all know and lincoln's case, we always said that in his personal opinion, slavery was wrong. it was terrible. and he always was searching for ways and means of ending it. but in his public positions, in his public statements, his remarks on slavery were very
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mild to begin with and they evolved and then of course in the end the second inaugural, we know how he identified slavery as a great central bank, which was in some way with optimal for the terrible turn of killings that took place. in gandhi's case, as far as the parent is a untouchability was concerned, his language against it was very radical from the beginning. and he always felt it was a tremendous and said so again and again, it was the greatest plot as far as indian society was concerned. but in terms of making the removable of untouchability and the cost of india whose sole goal, that he was not prepared to do. just as lincoln had his union to preserve and the slavery to
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abolish, gandhi also wanted to bring equality to india and in the shape of untouchability. but he also had the benefit of india and the hindu muslim friendship also as the schools. it was a great friend of his called cf andrews, who said to gandhi, if you don't give up everything else that only concentrate on this question of untouchability, that is your biggest gas. the great leader from the ranks of the untouchables, a man has a very interesting and remarkable figure also said the same thing to gandhi. he said, you seem to be so popular among all the hindus of india, he wants you to become a hindu dictator. i want you to give us all this talk about independence and muslim unity. just focus on this question of untouchability. gandhi said no. i would fight on the caste
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question, but i was also fight and independents questioned in the hindu muslim question. this also true that just as lincoln radicalized his position as time went on, many matters, and lifting blacks in the army and other issues, gandhi also radicalized his positions and as far as intermarriage was concerned, gandhi towards the end that that the only marriage to which i would give a special blessing would be a marriage between one from the so-called caste hindus and learn from the so-called untouchables. so there are these changes over time. i could go on and on. >> what is it like having gandhi
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as your grandfather? >> i don't know if any of her grandfather. that's the only one i have, except that i have a mother's father who also spoke of. but he was a very loving you other. he gave me a warm embrace each time. and sometimes come you know, in the old days indians within that their grandparents did god very deep lake towards them to receive the blessing. and normally the blessing would be to give a very nice caress to your head. but in this case, my grandfather used to give me ache they could bump on the back. and he was quite an anime is sometimes fasting, but his pump was quite strong. he was exceedingly warm and affectionate and he sometimes made jokes and i made jokes also
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to him. the one thing was there. his grandchildren and grandchildren didn't have too much of this time because he had so much other work to do. he had taken on so many things to do, which he thought were necessary things to do. so sometimes his children and grandchildren felt he is giving so much time to the others. why is he not giving so much time to need? [applause] ..
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or the historical philosophical point that the movie endeavored to place before us or any comment that we can no if this remains an accurate record to refer for our children and ourselves. >> thank you for this important question. it is by and large in my judgment reflects gondhi's life and spirit quite well and quite correctly. as you know, one movie of two hours or three hours cannot show everything that happens in the life of 78 years.
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so all the movies are selected. a very selective and some people will say that crucial parts of his life were left out; others may disagree with that. my assessment is it is a very good summary of gandhi's life, but as you say, that film was made now almost 30 years ago, 25 years ago, and some other films have been made. i think so far of all the films made it remains the best, but i think there is great likelihood of new movies also being made on gandhi's life. >> thank you so very much, professor. this was an extraordinary talk. [applause] it will live in our memory for a long time as well this evening
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as a whole. we are -- in good company for all of us. thanks so much for coming. [applause] >> for more on rajmohan gandhi and his work, visit rajmohangandhi.com. here's a short author interview from c-span's candian 2012 bus as it travels the country. >> karen, political women and american democracy, how did you decide what to include in this work? >> my coeditors and i organized
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this from the annenberg foundation, the project american democracy at the university of notre dame that we would convene by our estimation the scholars on women in politics in the u.s. only in the u.s. but scholars who were working on u.s. women and politics and so we brought together a range of people whose research we know well and convene for a conference at notre dame after which at that conference we discussed all the manuscript and the chapters of the books and have some commentary about it and discussion and then put it together as an edited a collection which can be generous in 2008. >> describe the role of women in this book. >> there are several instances in the books of let me tell you first we are not looking at public policy per say or women in the executive because even in 2008 there were few women in the
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executive and not yet a major female candidate for the nomination for president of a major political party in the united states. as the women at the executive level which meant the research wasn't there yet to support a good discussion and finally we didn't address women in the judiciary. so what did we address? we looked at the behavior of women as voters, the behavior of candidates for office both state and national office, the fear of women within political parties, the behavior of one man once elected to the national office. we also have a huge factor that look at the gender nature of u.s. political institutions as well as u.s. politics for women and politics in the context of comparative politics. that is what does the situation of politics look like in the u.s. compared to the rest of the world. they are not so pleasant actually. we have one of the least pretentious, least advantageous electoral systems of the national level for women which is a single member of plurality
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system with some modifications. the state level for the electoral college we also have two major political parties, which are in formal in their internal construction, have no clear formal instructions for becoming a candidate to offer very little structural means by which women can work the party so to speak to increase them in candidacy so there are lots of disadvantages women have in the united states in terms of actually achieving elective office. >> in relation to the political party, as a woman voter, what are the findings related to the encouraging participation directly related to the women? >> interesting things on women in politics that the women in fact the relevant category. there are more women than men in the u.s. citizenry and the voting electorate. secondly, women have slightly higher registration rates than men and women turn out at her slightly higher percentage than
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men, and the larger number absolute number of women combined with women - turnout makes for a big electoral impact. women also are disproportionately democratic. this is true across all age groups and it's also true across all racial groups so racial and ethnic groups women still have a slight preference for the democratic party compared to men. when we come into an election things like turnout and the range of issues that attract women are very important. women are more likely than men to vote for the democratic presidential candidate. that's been the case since 1992. that gap has been between two percentage points to five percentage points, depending upon the polls that you look at. but nonetheless there is a space and vintage in the electorate for the democratic party in general because of women. the absolute numbers that turnout in the democratic party. now the issues that seem to
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mobilize women and attract the vote has to do with social welfare issues, have to do with foreign policy issues and to a certain extent called morality issues, mou but on these the come from different directions. so for the simple on issues like same-sex marriage women are much less opposed to that than men for example. not by a huge margin but nonetheless there is a difference there. women are more concerned with foreign policy security issues, and that can have an impact on the women's vote and they are more concerned about the social welfare issues with things like health care, employment, the state of the economy, education. >> there's a woman candidate coming for president. you see this changing in 2012 were based on your research do you think they will largely remain the same? >> i see no female candidate coming in 2012. there are only two on the list
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that i know of. sarah palin who has not yet declared and michele bachman who is doing very poorly right now in early returns or other early polling results in the republican party debate and in the polling numbers for her. i don't see either of them being field a candidate to the republican party. and on the democratic side, all things being equal, the current president barack obama will be the candidate and that will foreclose an opportunity for a woman in that party to come forward. sallai knees no -- seen a woman for president in 2012. let me to say however that some polling data -- the most recent has been from 2008 coming very early in 2008 presidential primaries about 87% of americans are willing to say they would vote for qualified women regardless of sex that they would be willing to vote for a woman and a man. americans are more likely and to
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vote for someone who's african-american or jewish for president than they are 41 men, and i think that number is slightly lower than had been the previous results because in 2008 there was the clear potential female candidate and that was hillary clinton on the democratic side who ultimately failed to win the nomination. >> what are some recommendations for the women in that position, and the elected position running for office? to that matter, in your book? is that something you touch on? system and we don't turn to the president shall specifically but with the candidacy for the lower level office. so, a couple of recommendations -- these aren't recommendations for women so let me make clear we only need about 4,000 women nationwide to contest and win the elections to have equitable representation in the senate and the house and state houses. there aren't that many elective
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offices of the legislative level let blease that require that we need a million qualified women. i think we can find 4,000 qualified women to run. but that's not the issue. the problem is not with them to read the problem is the political party and the unavailability of access to candidacy both for the incumbency affected if we have, as we do, 83% of congress consisting of men, and most of those men are incumbents it's going to be difficult for the new openings for new candidates whether or not the candidates are women and so part of it has to do with political parties willingness to persuade members of congress, seeded members of congress to step down, willing to support women, challenging incumbents within their own party, willing to recruit women for office. right now the so-called big money people on the republican side are trying to recruit governor christie from new jersey to enter the presidential nomination on the republican
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side which he's so far at least has refused to do. but there are women that might be recruited. there are very good female governors on the republican side who might be recruited. is what this point, my argument is it is not the problem of women it's the party and specifically i might add the republican party. women are represented within the democratic party by the two touraco one margin everywhere over republicans. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. to follow the troubles, visit www.c-span.org/bus. shares my question. this is written a breezy style deli and has a breezy optimism to it. you write at one point, and i am quoting here, the innovative
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capitalist culture will allow us to make a houdini-style escapes from climate change's most devastating impact. what makes you so sure of that? >> my mother always told me to avoid wishful thinking, and i always try to be provocative to see if folks are awake. i take climate change very seriously, and now that my two minutes is up -- [laughter] i love good jokes. folks, i take climate change very seriously, and my optimism is -- the core of my optimism, and i don't want you to walk away thinking i am a naive optimist -- when we anticipate a challenge, our minds, the world of 7 billion people, perhaps 9 billion people -- if enough of us are scared and aware of the scare climate change pos is the fear of addressing duma head-on
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is anticipating a problem and if our best minds, as zuckerberg of the u.s. a faculty in the world where we have seven to 9 billion people anticipating major challenges and anticipating that there will be market as folks are using their blackberry right now to text these exciting points in a world where there is the need for climate change innovation that demand creates supply. and so my optimism is not naive and wishful thinking that if we anticipate that unlike the titanic if we can see the iceberg ahead, if we are afraid of the iceberg this is the beginning of the time to take protective action that will help many of us about who this very scary scenario. >> thank you. [applause] you can watch this and other programs on line at booktv.org. jonathan talks about the declaration which split historic palestine between the israelis and palestinians a

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