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tv   Today in Washington  CSPAN  May 4, 2012 6:00am-9:00am EDT

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>> we are also concerned about the other members of his family. and that is why we are convening this important hearing today. i'd like to now yield to my good friend and colleague, chairman of the human rights commission, congressman frank wolf. >> thank you, chris. i want to begin by thanking the chair, congress and chris smith who was champion of the chen case in congress for today's he the latest chapter of the long history of congress insisted dogged human rights activist key. chin reported requested to speak to congressman smith when he was at the u.s. embassy. although one of the many questions surrounding chance? is why the phone call was never facilitated. as the new cycle a fully ago began as a a purported
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diplomatic triumph evolved into diplomatic fiasco. now the fate of this man and his family hangs in the balance. while details are still emerging it appears the most generous read of the administration's handle of this case is that it was naïve and accepting assurances from a government that is well-known and documented history of brutally repressing its own people under this government. here are some of the following, and if you think about some these things in the last you all more than 30 tibetans, monks and nuns including several who were very young, have set themselves a flame in desperation. every one of the approximately 25 underground catholic bishops is either in jail or under house arrest order to restrict surveillance organizing. leaders are routinely imprisoned and harassed. lawyers that defend them are often given the same fate. when i travel to china with
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congressman smith in 2008, before the beijing olympics, every single one of the dissidents lawyers that we would've dinner with one night were either detained or warned not to attempt with one exception, that person who made it was subsequently placed under house arrest. china presently spends more on public security in an attempt to control its population than it does on its own defense. our own state department human rights report, china is an authoritarian state, end of quote with the government continues to muzzle freedom of speech and press and rein in civil society. this paper, the chinese government went to a farm to deny a visa to a citizen, the u.s. ambassador for international freedom. the very time the vice president of china was meeting with the president of the united states, president obama, the president ambassador for human rights and religious freedom, susan, couldn't even get a visa to go
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to china. of course, china is a barbaric practical, force abortion and sterilization. the list goes on. in short, chance? is not an anomaly but systematic a pervasive human rights abuses committed by the chinese government against his own people. as recent as today, the "washington post" reported that china quote continues its crackdown on people who are believed to have helped chen, integral. chance there wasn't an escape house arrest has been asked only by the of the brave individuals who have great personal risk to themselves assist them in breaking free on the captors who tormented, isolate mistreated him for more than 18 months. several have subsequently been detained, arrested were placed under house arrest. in light of the realities in a newly emergent account as the
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chen's wife was treated in the days following is a skid the chinese, it is hard to comprehend why the administration would accept at face value assurances that chen would be safe upon exiting u.s. protection. you wonder if there were other forces at work. had were come down high to resolve the chen situation no matter what prior to the arrival of secretaries clinton and guidance who headed to beijing this week for high level economic and foreign policies talk? was there a hint of the we should, any coercion, subtle coercion, force coercion or pressure involved? were the internal state department and white house deliberations when the dust settled, i intend to formally real cable traffic, classified or otherwise, that surrounded these negotiations. further the administration has an obligation to release the details of the deal that was struck with the chinese
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government, especially given how quickly it appears to have unraveled. there's been reported that chen was told the u.s. government official would stay with him at the hospital, and yet according to one news account, chen said what many americans were with me while i checked into the hospital and doctors examined me, lots of them. but what has brought to the hospital room at all less. i don't know where they win. was chen deceit? was that part of the arrangement? if not, why not? why did chen find itself alone, isolated and fearful just hours after he left u.s. protection? there are more questions than answers at this juncture. i hope today's witnesses will shed some light on the matter, especially bob fu, chen's friend who is personally predicted some china's most courageous dissidents and advocates. even though there's much we do not know, this much is certain. the administration, the obama administration, has a moral, a high moral obligation to protect
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chen and his family, to do anything less would be scandalous. president ronald reagan famously said that the u.s. constitution is a covenant that we made natalie with ourselves but with all of mankind. some in washington may forget that the document transcends history, but this freedom loving people the world over know this intuitively to be true. there's a reason students protectors in tiananmen square, the american deadlift of independence and carried a papier-mâché model of what looked to be the statue of liberty. america missed an opportunity, america missed an opportunity in tiananmen. will this administration fail to see the historic moment? the reverberations of such they are nearly impossible to calculate. the world is watching, both dictators and dissidents, the
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administration must be bold. the administration must ensure chen the safety and that of his family. these news reports are to believed about chen's wishes, the administration must, must grant him and his family aside from bad reviews, reviews, refused to apologize despite the chinese government demands. throughout history america's embassies have been islands of freedom. recall the group of pentecostals known as the siberian seven which were seeking religious freedom and right to emigrate, lived in u.s. embassy in moscow for five years beginning 1978. no one in the carter administration, no in the reagan administration said they had to leave the no one negotiated and set go out and be on your own on mascara. they allowed them to stay five years, a stalwart opponent of
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communism, and took refuge in a u.s. embassy in budapest for 15 years. chen initially found safety in the embassy, and now that guarantee is jeopardized. i'm confident there will come a day with the timing in his party's brutal reign will end, with the chinese people experience a new birth of freedom. men like chen and women like perl who helped facilitate chen's escape represent china's future. there are pressures in the one party structure that will be on the trashy to fish them the same way that president reagan said that tear down the wall, and the evil empire and then they will fall, the same thing will happen to the chinese government. until that day comes, america should always stand with the chen's of the world and again i thank the chairman for having this hearing and yield back the balance. >> thank you very much, chairman wolf but i'd like to now introduce our very distinguished, we have six outstanding human rights advocates were testifying today
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and i will begin first with pastor bob fu, who is a leader in 1989 student democracy movement in tiananmen square and later became a house church pastor and founder along with his wife. in 1996, authorities arrested and imprisoned them for their work or after their release the escape to the united states in 2002, how did china aid association. china it monitors china it monitors the report of religious freedom in china and provides the forum for discussing experts on dissident law and human rights in china. pastor who is interviewed by media outlets around the world and instead fight in just congressional and. i know parenthetically that when mr. wolf and i were in china on one of our many chips, we contacted bob fu who helped arrange for us to meet with house church leaders, and we in a very keeping the way, we were heading to tiananmen square to unfurl a banner that said human rights. and within an hour our embassy
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as ensure bob fu's phone was tapped, were contacted to say, wolf and smith will be deported immediately if that happens. here's a man who's being watched and yet speaks at and has incredible contacts inside of china. sophie richardson, doctor bridges and is a china human rights director, human rights watch and graduate university of virginia as a hopkins program and oberlin college. doctor richardson is the author of numerous articles on domestic chinese political reform, democratization and human rights in cambodia, china, hong kong, the philippines. just testified before the european parliament and the u.s. senate and the house. she has provided commentary to the bbc, cnn, our asian economic review, foreign policy, public radio new times, "wall street journal" and the post. "washington post" the doctor richardson is the author of china, cambodia and five principled peaceful coexistence in december 2009 columbia
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university press. including rare interviews with policymakers. we will then hear from t. kumar who is director for international efficacy. he testified before our subcommittee on human rights, my subcommittee many times. and before of the house and senate forums. he has served as a human rights monitor in many asian countries as was in bosnia, afghanistan, guatemala, sudan and south africa. is also served as director of several refugee shifts and camps. kumar holds an advanced degree in law from universal pennsylvania law school and taught at american universities a cat and human rights and humanitarian law. mr. kumar was himself a political prisoner for over five years. sri lanka force peaceful human rights activity. he started his legal studies in
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prison, became an attorney and devoted his entire practice to defending political prisoners which is what he does now with amnesty. we will then hear from a human rights advocates in purchasing agent from a furniture business from shandong province who recently fled to the u.s. to escape constant monitoring following her advocacy on behalf of chen guangcheng. along with others including, wang attempted to visit chen guangcheng on several occasions during his 19 month home confinement and participate in numerous advocacy activities. beatings, constant monitoring and detention. authorities detained her and her husband for two weeks in december 2011 as they were preparing to travel to participate in a free chen guangcheng activity. will then hear from yaxue cao
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who is an independent writer, translator and blogger about china. she grew up in china, at peking university and studied literature in the uzbek her writings and translations export aspects in china's past and present with evidences on human rights and the rule of law, including multiple pieces on chen guangcheng. her posts have been frequently quoted by mainstream the outlets, such as "the new york times." she had phone contact with at least one member of chen's extended family after chen's escape and has been reporting on the family's situation. we will then hear from michael horowitz, senior fellow at the hudson institute in washington. is also direct of the hudson institute project for civil justice reform and project for international religious liberty. he serves as general counsel for the omb under reagan administration, and taught law at university of mississippi and georgetown. he is also practiced by law as a
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partner at national law from. >> is written frequently on internet issues and human rights topics, and he'll the ba from city college in new york and got his degree from yale law school. i will know parenthetically that michael horowitz and my good friend colleague mr. wolf was a test has been the genius behind many human rights initiatives that have found their way into law in the united states, religious freedom, the north korean human rights act, and other initiatives. we will then hear from reggie littlejohn who is president of women's rights without frontiers, a nonpartisan international coalition to oppose forced abortion and sexual slavery in china, as was an expert on china's one child policy. just testify before the european and british parliaments, and the u.s. congress. she is also briefed officials at the white house, u.s. department of state and the vatican. she has also shown interviews,
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also been interviewed on dozens of tv and radio programs, and a spoken at harvard law school, stanford law so, george washington university and heritage foundation. she has issued several incisive reports that are included in the congressional record, graduate of you law school. she is represented chinese red cities and their political asylum cases in the united states. i like it now asks pastor -- pastor fu, if you would proceed. the thank you, chairman smith and congressman wolf, and other members of congress. and your excellent staff at the cecc. and i want to maybe just ask to submit my written version. >> without objection your whole statement, or those of any of our, and any items you like to fix to it will be part of the
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record. >> as the president of the china association i have details for chen guangcheng to escape and contact a team of people who help chen fleet to beijing. i actually learned chen left his house may 23. after chen left the u.s. embassy, i stayed in close contact with both the relevant u.s. government officials and people, and people who are intimate of the chen with telephone to mutation within. from them all i have amassed a great deal of firsthand information. in the developments that have led to the current situation, which is very, rather shocking, regretting, and disappointing.
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there's some important points that are confusing and i think need immediate clarification. first, a call to the u.s. state department and u.s. embassy in beijing as official chinese ombudsman, chen guangcheng left the embassy of his own coalition. however, according to my conversation of night with mr. chen, and several media report, including the press and of firsthand information from federal lawyer and from the wife of dissident, u.s. officials relayed to chen the threat made by the chinese side to threaten his wife. and it was after learning of this threat that chen was left
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with no choice but to reluctantly leave the u.s. embassy. much of the i think dispute between the account of the state department and the u.s. negotiators and the chen's record with the media i think was around how to capitalize that conversation on may 2 before chen walked out of u.s. embassy, relayed by the u.s. official, message seems suggest aashto let me put this way. chen was parked by a u.s. government official before he stepped out of embassy. and he was told it was chinese government message that the chinese government want to
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convey that message to the u.s. government official, that if he chose not to walk out of the embassy on may 2, he will not be able to see his wife and his children again. his wife and children will be returned to the village, which has been the hell for this family. according to my conversation last night, as i tried to verify what the nature of that conversation, what really happened, chen said, after hearing that message from the chinese government and paid by u.s. official, his heart was heavy and he felt he had no other choice. but to walk out of the u.s. embassy. so to him it was like a one way
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street. either/or, either he stayed in n the u.s., and the u.s. embassy, but facing a reality that his wife and children would be gone, maybe for the whole life, he would not be able to see his wife and two children. of course, he didn't know at that time what his wife had already been treated after apr april 27 when the u.s., when the chinese authority found chen was missing. chen's wife was immediately taken to a criminal interrogation center where she was tied, beaten, and threatened with life. basically the interrogator told
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her that if her husband did not walk out of the u.s. embassy, they will kill her. chen of course learned about that after he had reunions with his wife in hospital. that was the second phase. i think that was clear to anyone with reasonable logic, that should constitute a threat. that should, if that conversation occurred anywhere here, i think that, 911 call. what happened to his wife and to their children. i mean, is eight year old son was not even able to be seen by this couple for two years. and what happened to them in the past seven years, you know, this
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enormous culture and harassment and constant threat to this family, in front, you know, their six-year-old daughter as chen recounted, his 80 year old mother was beaten up, only government would not even allow her in her birthday to receive medical treatment. in front of a six-year-old girl. i don't know that is a threat or not, but to me after hearing what chen is told me, i verified over the phone on my conversation with him, i think i have a few questions, you know, want to ask the u.s. chief negotiator, or whoever, who is
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the one really bad information to chen. what exactly the wording from the chinese government, and what's the u.s. response initially to that message by the chinese government? and why he has to walk on may 2, why that date? and why there's no other option on the table, offer to chen? for instance, why the u.s. embassy would not tell chen that you have a choice you can make, we can continue to negotiate with the chinese government to allow your wife and two children to come to the u.s. embassy so that you can have a safety environment to discuss your future? why that has to be a one way
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street? i think this question needs to be answered. i certainly appreciate ambassador gary locke and administration officials made the right decision in april, on april 26 to allow chen to at least have that six days pressures time of freedom in seven years. but i do want to ask these questions. i certainly think what some conversations i had about chen, about how chen felt he was treated, or at least how much pressure he has received. i think i would reserve a later time to share, but bottom line, chen yesterday told me both, he
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said, both my wife and i feel in danger. we are left alone. we do not have anybody at present with ours. as late as 9:00, our six-year-old baby girl was crying for food. these are sufferings, salvation first night after they were so-called guaranteed freedom. and after somebody called the u.s. embassy apparently, u.s. embassy, somebody took chen to the hospital and they were given some food. and you can read that account in a very detailed description written by a doctor, one of chen's close friends come in his conversation over the phone.
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and about what had really happened during that night about their starvation. and secondly i want, i want to emphasize that chen told me last night very clearly that he does not feel safe over there. he wants the u.s. to help him and his family to come out of china. of course, he didn't use these next words or, better, in chinese call it seeking asylum, or something like that come in that nature. and remember, he is still in china and his wife not even allowed to walk out of the hospital. none of chen's friends, human rights lawyers, human rights defenders, is allowed so far to visit chen. some of them have showed up in
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hospital and they were not even allowed to come close. so the hospital room that chen, his family members are staying in, became essentially another village under just come in different form this time in the capital city of china. so i would call upon the u.s. government, especially i think actually chen specifically requests meet again to talk about his requests to a phone conversation with you. and he yesterday, last night he requested again that i want to talk with congressman chris smith. and, unfortunately, this morning a moment ago when we tried, the phone was cut off. we don't know what happened he promised me he will keep it on,
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if possible for conversation with you today. i think secretary clinton, this is the moment i think to deliver at least deliver what you promise which have repeatedly said in the past two years. we want to see chen and his family with freedom as you are visiting a dialogue with your counterparts in china, this is the moment to deliver i think chen specifically made that appeal to secretary clinton, to help negotiate, i think you reengage with the chinese government, to allow them to have a safe access. so that is appeal. and i want to leave the rest of the time for questions. thank you very much.
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>> mr. fu, thank you very much for that incredibly enlightening and passionate test whether i would now like to ask dr. richardson for her comments now. >> mr. smith, mr. wolf, thank you very much for having this hearing this afternoon, and for your extraordinary, tenacious leadership on these issues. i think it is not an accident that chen wanted to speak you in particular. i want to start with one premise, which is that if chinese government was serious that its commitments to human rights and rule of law, we wouldn't be having these conversations again and again and again, which does not suggest we are not habit of this discussion with you but i think the fact that 30 years into reform and opening up in 20 years after tiananmen, we're still discussing these issues, is a partial statement about the
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choices the chinese leadership has made with respect to political reform and the rule of law. to paint a broad picture, year in and year out we continue to document gross abuses, and use the death penalty, disappearances, restrictions on the freedoms of religion and association and assembly. i think chen's case in particular highlights some of the worst abuses that we have seen in recent years, those including naked disregard to the law, both with respect to chen's efforts to challenge illegal practices and told people to account, but also with respect to the treatment of him. certainly gross problems with respect to arbitrary detention, which we discussed often extends to family members including very young children. this is, i find this aspect of the story in particular outrageous, that children should be subject to this kind of
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treatment. torture and mistreatment, we've heard and credible evidence of physical violence against chen, his wife, other family members, other associates. and restrictions on the freedom of expression ranging from his ability to commit it with other people, people's ability to go and see him, or report on what's happening to him. and let's bear in mind that all of this has been in retaliation for work and activities that were entirely consistent with domestic and international law. i think that's very important point to remember is that chen has done nothing illegal. and i think the bottom line is that all activists in china, regardless of the issues that they're working on, remain at extraordinary risks at all times. with respect to chen in particular, i think ivy is a much depends on clarity about what he and his family want, if
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indeed they do want to leave, which seems to be the view now. i think it is incumbent upon the u.s. government to insist on access to him. we are very disturbed by the reports in the "washington post" today that u.s. officials have not been able to have any access to him or about 24 hours now. i don't see any particular reason why secretary clinton, secretary geithner, ambassador locke and others in the u.s. government officials were in beijing at the moment can't get in the car and go to the hospital and insist upon access to him. if he does opt to stay, i think there's an obligation on the u.s. government to mount a monitoring effort with respect to chen treatment, and his family members of treatment, of a kind that they have ever met before.
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but in the broader picture with respect to other activists, activism in general in china, i think there is an enormous responsibility on the u.s. government, on activist, on other like-minded governments to watch him credit closely, just over the next few days, but over weeks and months and years to monitor what happened to other activists who will suffer from further rich fusion by richard of this image appeared we know the machine has swung into action to place restrictions on people, some who are involved in this case, somewhat nothing to do with this case. i think it would be a tremendous tragedy if the heightened awareness of human rights abuses in china were to fade when the
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spotlight shifts elsewhere after secretary clinton leaves town. that's i think all of our collective responsibilities in the near and the longer-term future. thanks speck dr. richardson, thank you very, very much but i'd like to now, mr. kumar. >> thank you very much, chairman smith, and congressman wolf, and international. please to testify at this important and timely hearing. and we also want to recognize both your leadership in promoting and protecting human rights, not only in china but around the world. thank you for your job, for both of you. today, what's happening in china is not about this particular individual, chen guangcheng. it is about the system in china, which is viewed towards abusing its own citizens, with total impunity. we started working on chen's case when he was initially arrested years ago for
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documenting abuses in the context of -- [inaudible] the reason was our research showed that he did not use violence or advocate violence but he was just documenting abuses, and trying to publicize its abuses. so he was in prison for more than four years. during this time he was tortured and abused. when he was released, everyone thought that the sacca would come to an end, but that's not the case. like many of the cases in china, he was illegally detained in house, and also against the abuse, not only him but his family as well. so what happened about two ago, less than two weeks ago was that he escaped from the illegal
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detention and he ended up coming to the u.s. embassy. and now that the situation is getting not clear, but one thing we know from the u.s. administration officials who made public statements that china gave commitment that they were both in agreement between china and the united states about the treatment of mr. chen. i didn't know the full context of that agreement, it is time the u.s. administration make it public, whether they were signatures involved of the chinese authorities, a real official document should be brought in. i asked the commission to request that official agreement between u.s. and china on chen's treatment. on the context of the strength of the agreement, chen agreed
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even to those was some other issue involved, have difficulty confirming. that he went to the hospital for treatment. suddenly, what we're hearing is that the same agreement that the united states and china agreed upon has been violated. and now he is asking that he is calling for the media report that came on a silent for him and his family to the u.s. so opportunities there, to free other political prisoners. secretary clinton -- [inaudible] so if u.s. officials can't solve this issue, the u.s. is having a direct -- [inaudible] because the agreement they both
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signed. we have to ask a question, what interest can they do to get improvement in human rights issues in china? that brought to the question of broad question, which human rights in china and u.s. engagement? amnesty international is considered that even though there are some meaningful improvements that were taken by different administrations, current dialogue that is taking place, that is dialogue, is not taking human rights as a serious and equal partner to the dialogue. even do basic things like -- [inaudible] there are resistance to we don't know where resistance comes from. administration here or from the
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chinese. so if they can't even rename dialog as human rights dialogue, there are six questions about the administration's intention intentional, to put additional pressure, that's where we are coming today. secretary clinton should, before she leaves, make a public statement about what she intends to deal with chen's case. she should specifically mentioned about the agreement that was given, what, if there's an agreement to bring, to a site them, what steps. others have said when secretary clinton leaves, the interest will be down. we were told by administration official, that's not the case. but to make it clear, let secretary clinton make a
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statement about this, not only this is human rights case, but this is case involved, directly involve u.s. in political case where they have an agreement. so let u.s. stand. let secretary clinton, while she is in china, stand up and make a clear statement. this will set a tone for future u.s.-china agreements, or even china policy on promoting and protecting human rights in china. thank you again for inviting amnesty international. >> take you very much, mr. kumar. if i could go from left to right, you're right to left. ms. littlejohn. >> thank you so much, congressman smith, congressman wolf, for inviting me to this. i have been asked to testify as
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to do things. one is, what is the underlying issue that got chen guangcheng detained, and the other one is, what about those who helped him come in particular, perl? something that has been left out of discussion and a lot of mainstream media is why is it that chen guangcheng has been the subject of such intense persecution? what is it that set off the chinese communist party against him? is the fact that he was one person in china who dared to stand up against the one child policy. he and his wife exposed the fact that there were an estimated 130,000 forced abortions and forced sterilization's in one year in 2005. and it was that fact that got
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him detained. he spent four years of treatment in children which time he was tortured. denied medical treatment, and now has been under house arrest. so women's rights without frontiers obtained the fieldnotes of chen guangcheng. we have the cases that he was working on when he was detained in 2006. we released those at a congressional hearing right here on december 6 of 2011, called the chen guangcheng report, and it is 35 pages of case after case of the most horrific human rights abuses that you can imagine. for example, a woman who was forcibly aborted and sterilized at seven months, villagers that would sleep in fields to a big planning family officials. family planning officials who broke three brims over the head of a man whose children was suspected of having violated
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family planning law. family planning officials enforced a grandmother and her brother to leave each other because someone in the family had violated the family planning birth limits. and then finally the use of quota systems and the practice of implication from the detention of family members in which, if one person in a family is suspected of having violated one child policy, either by being pregnant or missing their cervical checkup, women are required to cervical checkups between every two and between every six month, depending on where they live in china, their entire family can get dragged in. and there's one account in the chen guangcheng report of a person's extended family, their parents, grandparents, their aunts and uncles, their cousins, all being dragged in and tortured and find 100 want a day for what they call family
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planning learning class tuition. so it's clear from the chen guangcheng report that the spirit of the red guard is living on in the family planning police today. and this is the issue for which he gave his life to china. he gave his life to protect the women of china from forced abortion, forced sterilization, infanticide, and then the other implications that come after the one child policy on genocide, because of this there's an aspect 37 million more men than women living in china today, and that in turn is driving human trafficking and sexual slavery now within china but this running country as well. and then in addition, china has the highest female suicide rate of any country in the world. approximate 500 women today killed themselves in china. there is untold suffering in china because of the one child policy. and this is the issue that chen
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had the courage to confront. and this is also the central, i think a central policy in the chinese communist party, which is why they have targeted him so fiercely. now, some people might ask whether chen guangcheng report in 2005, whether these things are still having. and they are still happening. just about three weeks ago there was a report, a photographic him across on the chinese equivalent of twitter were a woman had been forcibly aborted of a baby at the ninth month, the baby was born alive, was crying, and the family planning officials took the baby and dumped in a bucket and drowned it. there's a picture of the drowned baby in a bucket, and that was circulated and created outrage. and i would also like to say
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come so that people don't realize is that families, the course of birth limits is not only violence against women but men as well. and there are many instances in the chen guangcheng reported women were also detained and tortured. in one instance there was a farmer who had committed suicide because of the operation. and another report i said that in congress there's this woman, this man who, in 2008, his wife did have a second child, so the family planning police came to get, the find from. he said please, just take the fine, don't be violent about it. be peaceful about it. they refused to do that. they instead start a fight and they broke a bottle over his head. so here's a picture of him with his temple that was crushed with a bottle broken over his head and is now permanent link disabled.
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-- now permanently disabled. the second issue i was asked to address was the persecution, pens name pearl. she reached out to me about six months ago. she was running a free chen guangcheng campaign, a sunglasses campaign and wanted to do outside of china. she was doing inside china. she and i started e-mailed each other. we felt sort of that we're sisters in this cause of free chen guangcheng, and she is the one that when chen guangcheng made his great escape, she drove 20 hours to dongshigu village and she disguised itself as a courier, got in the village, fooled of the guard, and then drove him to eight hours between dongshigu village and beijing.
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so the plan for his escape worked so well that he was not discovered to have been missing for four days, and then on the day that he was discovered missing, she and i skype on and off all night long. she was alone. she was afraid. she was afraid for chen. she was afraid for his family. she was also afraid for herself, and then at around five in the morning when i try to skype her one last time, there was silence. i found out later that she had been detained. i am very concerned about pearl. i am concerned that she may be tortured because she was ahead of his home network, to free chen and we know many instances in which key activists have been tortured in order for the chinese communist party in order to distract from the the other people were and their network. and so i would urge that in these discussions about chen
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guangcheng that they included pearl at all times but i really appreciate the way that congressman smith and congressman wolf have been including her in the discussions. and so chen guangcheng i'm sure will not feel free and to his main supporter from the outside is also free. thank you. >> ms. littlejohn, thank you so very much for that testimony. and for bringing attention to the underlying cause why the full weight of the chinese government came down upon chen and his wife, and it is the forced abortion issue. and for reminding the world that the concern that we have to have for her, her well being. i'd like to now yield to mr. horowitz. >> thank you, mr. chairman. last month i was arrested in a respectful nondisruptive demonstration on the have of what bob fu and i called the
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china six. and, of course, chen guangcheng was one of them. when the news first came out i sent e-mail to bob and said we're down to the china five. he then sent back an e-mail to me saying soon it will be the china zero. mr. chairman, we are back at the chinese six, worse than we were. part was failures mr. will indicated of the administration when the incoming president of china was here to send a clear signal that the rights of these baroque dissidence represent priority interests to american human rights and american foreign policy. so part of what we are witnessing -- the real question is how could this have happened? and i've often thought and said to you, mr. chairman, one of the great things we do for the pursuit of american interests would be to replace the state department with the afl-cio,
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because this is an issue bargaining here. anybody the teamsters union would understand would have flunked every one of these people who are bargaining for the life and freedom of such a hero. let me give very quickly three things. the first thing one does is welcome this man to the embassy and tell him you can stay as long as you want. both to take care of your own client, but much more importantly to send a signal to china that time is on our side. mr. chairman, when i was bargaining for the fire officers union of new york city, i always understood one thing. it the other guy needed to sign the deal before i did, he was in my pocket, and the chinese understood that, as clearly as possible. secondly, you don't accept verbal promises. you get some action, some
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good-faith action before you close the deal internal for your house, or whatever it is, or cut the deal. and so the first principle that anybody indeed, of any union leader would say is okay, t. want to do a deal? first thing is bring his wife and child here. we don't even talk until she is there with him. that could've been done. and then the final and i think most critical thing, mr. chairman, not only to understand the risks that you and your client when, but to put yourself ahead of the other side. anybody from any labor union would have said to the chinese listen, we have all the time in the world. the world is watching what's going on. chen guangcheng has become the face of china.
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the people of the united states and the rest of the world spend all this money building goodwill in the west and building goodwill in the united states, every minute that this man and his family and the people who rescued him are at risk is destroying whatever is, the leverage you have from american business community will be trumped if you continue to let this case faster. so hey, as long as it takes, it takes, but he is here, he is comfortable. that's what happened with the pentecostal. instead, they were so focused on our needs, our risks and not the needs and risks and problems of the chinese, that they just rushed to the negotiation. mr. chairman, even if i didn't care one iota for human rights in china, for chen, and all he cared about was the agenda that secretary geithner is pursuing, i would be emphasizing the chen
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guangcheng case because that's what puts china on the defensive. it's not our weakness. it is their weakness. and ronald reagan understood that when he dealt with the pentecostals. as george shultz had said, every time the russians wanted to negotiate nuclear weapons policies, he would say, well, what are you doing about this dissident, that dissident, when are they getting out? and when they began to understand that these dissidence were not in the way of american foreign policy, but that they were foreign policy, guess what? ronald reagan was able to negotiate a better deal on weapons, on ruble-dollar relations and so forth. again, if you focus on your weakness and don't understand the vulnerability of the other side, you get fired and your first week at the teamsters union, and these people have been negotiating and have held
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the life and the state and the security of these hero's in their hands, how sad it makes me. at the sheer utter incompetence of the people at the state department who purported to bargain. now, what do we do to protect him now? mr. chairman, you have the chart up there. it is an extraordinary charge. as soon as this happened, the chinese created blocks on the internet. the great highway of freedom that the chinese airman understands. i wish we did better. now, if you have the word chen again, it gets blocked. if you type in the word blind man in china, you get blocked. now, the problem with the stories about this, this was in yesterday's "wall street journal," is that they convey a premise, a take away message to the american people that china
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has the capacity to control what people in china get to see on the internet. mr. chairman, as you know and as mr. wolf or perhaps any member of congress knows, that is true only because of our horrible misguided policies. because the state department has failed to honor congressional intent in getting appropriations that say give this money to groups with field-tested capacity to bypass the firewall, the internet firewall system of china, iran, of all the dictatorships. there's $30 million now sitting that was appropriated years ago in state department accounts to tear down internet firewalls, that they haven't spent. there's a board of broadcasting governors sitting there with seven, $800 million. they have not to read program as
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they easily could and should have done. just 10% of the appropriation for r&d and to firewall circumvention, for giving money to successful field-tested programs to let him a scale of so that they don't crash when 2 million users a day access the system, but a 50 million a day to access the system. we have it in our capacity, mr. chairman, to allow 50 million chinese at any given second to search the word blind man anytime they want, no matter what the golden shield bureaucracy says. and we haven't done it. and we haven't done in violation of clear congressional intent, and we haven't done it because we have not pushed the bureaucracy at the state department, pushed the board of broadcasting governors to do it. there's one possible clue. when asked why one of the most
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successful programs has not received significant support by the "washington post," the response, mr. chairman, and mr. wolf knows it, was because if we gave them support, china would go ballistic. so said a senior administration official to the "washington post." so mr. chairman, the way to deal, the protection of chen guangcheng, and all of the others, is somewhat information all the verbal promises that are meaningless, he will be isolated, and nobody will know what happened to him. and as long as nobody knows, as long as the word chen and blind man can't be found out by people in china and the rest of us, he will be persecuted as he had before. he will be isolated. his spirit will be taken.
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but let's create a world in which one microsecond after his wife is beaten up, the word goes out on the internet and everybody in china knows. we can make this happen, mr. chairman, with funds sitting appropriated funds sitting in state department accounts, and we can make it happen in two to three months. so i hope one of the things that will come out of it, and if it does i think chen will regard what he is going through is worth every second and every painting indoors, but let's have come out of this a determination on the part of congress to get this administration to tear down internet firewalls, which are the real source of power and protection and the ability of the regime to isolate its people. i close by saying what hu jintao said, and i think we ought to take a clue, he said the stability of the socialist state depended on our ability to quote
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purify the internet. we have it within our means, as i said, that these kinds of things cannot be done. we have it in our ability so that you, too, can broadcast 59 people in china and the rest of the world, within 10 minutes of the time it happened received on cell phones any further torture, isolation of chen guangcheng, or others like him. so let's honor this man and protect this man by tearing down the internet firewalls with priority, determination. if we do that, all of the suffering will not have been in vain. thank you, mr. chairman. ..
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>> what i know about chen guangcheng's case, and i am the person on friday and last friday afternoon around 1:30 i was on twitter, and i have been following, i've been active on twitter because i work at home, and i saw a tweet. somebody tweeted from china, somebody tweeted someone they found on the chinese micro blog that chen guangcheng's nephew slashed local officials and thugs with two knives, and now
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he's on the run in the field. and that tweet has a number with it. so without hesitation, i grabbed the phone. i called. when i did that, i didn't, really didn't expect to reach him because i thought that, well, i have lived here long enough, i thought, well, the police would have taken him already by now, or he won't answer without knowing the source of the number. but i find him. i find the agitated, scared young man. well, in his early 30s. a young father. so i talked to him. he told me the whole what happened on that day. in china time that is the night of the day when the guards and the local authorities find chen
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guangcheng missing, last thursday. okay. so he told me everything, and i said, hold on, let me get my recorder. i want you to speak on record, and i want to get your words with your permission as quickly as possible online, and that's what i did. i did just that. and i recorded his message. he told me the entire story, what he knew about that day. and within hours i put on the web site that's called the free chen guangcheng web site which i maintain with a group of friend, volunteers, we are all doing this on our own, and i put the recording there. and within 15 hours i put chinese and english transcription of the conversation, and be i forward it to -- i forward it to all the
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media outlets i can find. so that's why the nephew's story is so quickly on the pages in the international news. otherwise it would still be hearsay. okay, that said, i want to tell the hearing what happened after the conversation. now, after the conversation i -- the next day also from twitter i find out that the lawyer through his wife was able to find him. he was still on the run. that night when i talked to him, he was already -- he called immediately two police bureaus, and nobody, no police was coming. he was surrendering himself, but no authority came to take him. and he, then he was still at large. so through his wife, his lawyer,
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six lawyers quickly formed a team. one of the lawyer in the province contact him, was able to speak to him, and he said i was scared at the time he was away from immediate area. and at this point he was on the run. and so right now we don't have any words from the chinese authority as where this young man is, what happened to him, is he in police custody? isn't the government responsible to know that, to find him? for crying out loud, he surrendered himself. he's innocent, but he did call. so what happened to this young man? he feared for his life. he told his lawyer, he said a black car has been following him all around. he said he's less fearful to be
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in police custody than being caught by a bunch of thugs because he witnessed how his uncle and his uncle's family were beaten before. so also from the chinese authority there is a statement, there is a response. the second day when chen guangcheng disappeared, one of the nine counties of the city web site, official web site posted a statement, two sentences, two or three sentences saying that -- [inaudible] slashed our officials with knives, is on the run for fearing his crimes. that's the entirety of the statement.
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and we are trying to ap rehelp him. apprehend him. now, that statement made no mention of chen guangcheng, and it made no mention why this man -- a good man so far, innocent man so far -- slashed a whole bunch of authority, party cadets. i mean, no. that's the chinese government. that's the statement. so from a reliable source that i think it's based in the u.s. that the father -- oh, the young man told me that his father who is the eldest brother of chen guangcheng, the thugs took him away that night. the knife slashing happened after his father, in other words, the brother of chen guangcheng, was taken away.
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so so far what we know at least chen guangcheng's eldest brother, chen guangcheng's sister-in-law, chen guangcheng's cousin and the son of this cousin are in the hands of the authorities. okay. that's so far what we know. now i want quickly to talk about the state, the state, what i find this young man was saying. eleven times i personally counted, eleven times he mentioned the word "law." in turn he was appealing to the law to defend him. another moment he was desperate, he was sobbing, he was shaking that he did not for a moment believe the law would defend him. that was the thing -- the
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conversation is long. if anybody is interested, they can go to my web site which is www.seeing red in china.com, to read the complete transcription. but this one point i want to emphasis. he said, quote: i love my motherland, but look what she gives me, end quote. and she also said at the very end of our conversation she said, at the bottom of the society all is so tragic. now, i also want to quickly to give you my impression of the -- because after i talked to him for several days i can't shake off this image and the conversation we had. now, on one hand he is a, he's just a villager. he is what the chinese official prop began da -- propaganda would like to call low-quality people. not suitable for democracy. but i find this young man to be
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reasonable, good-hearted and be absolutely intelligent, speaking coherently under such difficult situation. in other words, he represented the goodness of china just like his uncle. so on one hand you have this good people as represented by chen guangcheng, by the nephew. on the other hand, you have this government, and we are -- where are we? i'm american. i speak -- when i say "we," i mean u.s. where are we? where are we spending with? who are we spending with? now, if you allow me, i'm not listed to speak about this. i want to pick up on
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dr. richardson and dr. horowitz, what he said. because i've been following twitter's chinese community. these are people who are living in china but have the technical savviness to climb the wall and are very active on twitter. i want to give the hearing little bit of idea, i want you to know because it's utmost important to know that what are the, what are the reactions after chen guangcheng left the embassy. now, over whenning dis-- overwhelming disbelief at how this could have happened. overwhelming anger and sense of betrayal. now, for six days -- [inaudible] five characters in chinese meaning u.s. embassy, this five
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characters for six days are magic words for many, many chinese. china is a big country, and there's one island, one safe haven called u.s. embassy. we're so overjoyed that he got there, so miracle, miraculous. and yet we allow, we drop the ball so awful, so terribly, we allowed this to happen. i'm not going to comment on how it happened because others already spoke very eloquently. now, we also have to remember, have to understand that what chen guangcheng represents for so many chinese, strangers who went to the village, got beaten, got robbed, got lost their job, lost their house afterwards, i
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mean, braving such harsh punishment for doing nothing wrong. why? because they love chen guangcheng. why do they love chen guangcheng? because chen guangcheng as a blind man is a source of light. this is no poetic work. literally, it's a source of light. and he represents the goodness and the bravery that both on short supply in china. he's -- he lives in the poorest of village. he didn't go to school until he's 18. he is blind. where on earth did you find such a man? where? tell me. and he is the symbol and the -- for him we must understand the larger picture. now, i'm a ordinary citizen.
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in my eyes, my larger picture might not be the same as the larger picture of our state department officials, okay? but the one piece i saw in this larger picture may well be the most significant piece which is china's pro-democracy citizens whether they're outspoken or not look upon the u.s. for support. if we failed chen guangcheng, this deals a horrible, horrible blow for this population. that are braving persecution for change in china for the better. and that we will suffer the pain for years and years to come. and we will lose all credibility.
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i mean, may i read quotes, read a few quotes i took from twitter? number one, very straightforward. the u.s. betrayed us. number two, obama has no teeth. number three, this is so recklessly cynical. number four, now that we can't even trust the u.s. embassy, i can't tell you how angry i am. number four, in 2012 the entire human race is unable to rescue a blind man. number six, after i read the report by cnn that the whole world is talking about this man, only the chinese themselves don't know what's going on. i am so saddened by this fact. the last quote, this is by the
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canadian, the very well known canadian activist -- [inaudible] you might know her name. he said the chen guangcheng case is a challenge for the u.s. ideals, also a test of american strength. if u.s. gave up on protecting chen guangcheng, it amounts to giving up its leadership role in the world. down the road in face of terrorism and dictatorship, the u.s. will never be able to stand straight up again. this is by an activist based in canada, also a journalist. that's what i'm here to say, and i'm happy to have said it, and thank you very much for this opportunity. thank you.
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>> ms. yaxue, thank you very much for your testimony. it is almost numbing to hear you say what other chinese individuals are saying online. and so, you know, that should be a wake-up call in and of itself to the u.s. government and especially to this administration. i'd like to now yield to such time as she will consume wang shayin. [speaking chinese] >> translator: i'm very sorry, but i can't speak english, so i'll be speaking chinese through an interpreter. [speaking chinese] >> translator: ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. [speaking chinese]
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[speaking chinese] >> translator: i'm here as a supporter of chen guangcheng, and i hope i have helped him and his family, and i hope that through telling you all a little bit about what has happened to me myself in the process, you'll be able to get a real feeling for what he has been through in the past as well as as accurate as possible a picture of what's in store for him in the future. [speaking chinese]
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[speaking chinese] [speaking chinese] >> translator: on august 26, 2011, i went to lin yi to help
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chen guangcheng be able to attend the school that she should have been attending, and i went with some other people. this trip was very much in goodwill, and we wanted to show the local government that we were coming in peace and goodwill. and for that reason we decided to stay at a local spa which have open and not secret and, also, it was far from the county so they could see us. they were even able to watch us while we were sleeping. we wanted them to be very clear that the only reason we were there this time, the sole goal and purpose of our mission was to let his daughter be able to attend this school. and we didn't really get any good results. the only thing that happened is even while we were asleep, there were seven to eight big, strong guys that were watching us all the time, and there were several
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cars parked outside watching us all the time. we didn't make any progress in getting her to attend the school that she was supposed to be attending. as a matter of fact, when we went to try to visit the family, we were met with violence, and they pulled us out of the car. [speaking chinese] >> translator: that same year, september 19th, i went with an israeli journalist, um, to complain.
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we were going to the provincial capital to complain about the brutal treatment that we'd received in the county, and actually, also, the night before that there were two women who also tried to go and visit, and they were robbed and beaten, their heads were bagged, they were thrown in cars, taken to a place outside the city, thrown in the woods, and other than the government giving a warning regarding this, there was no explanation at all for what they did. [speaking chinese] >> translator: on the 20th of september, we went to the house
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of the fourth son in chen guangcheng's family, so the brother that was just older than him in the pecking order. we went there to ask whether or not chen guangcheng's daughter had successfully been able to go to the school that she was supposed to be attending, and as soon as we arrived, six people rushed in. we were not able to carry out the conversation at all. instead, what we had to do was leave the school supplies which we were bringing there. we left, and we were followed by their car. [speaking chinese]
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[speaking chinese] [speaking chinese]
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>> translator: on september 21st we decided that one person should remain in the motel that we were staying at, and the rest of us would go to the school to see if there was any progress, but our car was stopped. there were three men on motorcycles who were waiting for us, and so we left. we didn't go into the school. we hadn't left for very long, we had just left the school when we were pulled out of our cars, we were beaten. the reporter that was with us was ordered away and be escorted away, but the rest of us were taken to an old, empty house on the outskirts of the village. we were bagged, we were body search inside a very insulting and terrible way, we were beaten, and we were take on the an old, abandoned house. and then at night we were taken to the police station and interrogated for stealing a cow. i refused to sign the statement
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that they prepared for me, and i was sent back to li yung. at 2 a.m. i was in the police station being interrogated, and be at 5 a.m. i was home. then on the 21st as well the person who had remained at the motel was also ordered away, taken back to that person's home, um, and the political police stole a lot of stuff a rot of possession -- a lot of possessions from us. i myself went to li ni to report these crimes, and i was there about noon that day, and i called some reporters. as soon as i pulled out the phone to call the reporters, there were eight political police that appeared and sent me home. [speaking chinese]
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>> translator: mcclatchy journalist asked me to come to there for an interview, and i went to complain about the treatment that i'd received on the, previously when i'd been beat season and harassed. and the -- beaten and harassed. and the only thing when i told them all about it, they handed me a form and told me to fill out a form, but the whole time there were seven or eight big, strong guys watching me, listening to everything i was saying. and then after we got into the car, and we hadn't even stopped,
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the car was still moving, and the reporter's assistant, the journalist's assistant was almost pulled out of the car before the car had even stopped. [speaking chinese] [speaking chinese]
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[speaking chinese] >> translator: on the 26th of october, i myself and several volunteers along with a british telegraph reporter, um, were heading to the county to bring the school supplies, once again more school supplies, we were going to bring them to chen guangcheng's brother's house. and we were followed the entire way. from start to finish. then the county government answered our request. they said, yes, you can go see him. so since they said we could go see him, we were trying to get
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police protection and escort to go with us. they said we couldn't take our cameras, and they also said we wouldn't escort and that we were crazy, and then they slapped me very hard in the face. of course, there was no protection to speak of. we were kicked out of the police station, and the next day met a japanese reporter. the political police appeared once again and jailed us, took our clothes off, took our shoes off. they gave us full body searches after we were completely naked. [speaking chinese]
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>> translator: i was working with a finnish tv station helping them to try to cover the situation on november 5th, and that was the smoothest time i had ever had trying to go and see chen guangcheng. i didn't encounter too many problems, most likely because we were staying in the big city which is very far, and also we'd taken out our cell phone batteries, we'd taken precautions. even though we did that, though, the police worked through the county police to investigate, interrogate me. [speaking chinese]
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[speaking chinese] [speaking chinese] >> translator: then on the 2nd of december i had arranged with several other volunteers to give out gift bags and balloons with chen guangcheng's picture on them in several major cities in the province, and we were in contact with each other to
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arrange this. our contact itself wasn't detected, but as soon as we began printing the materials, we were detected by technical means by the technology of the police, and there was no due process accorded to us. they searched my house, they beat my husband. he and i were both detained illegally for 14 days, and for about ten of those days we were in our hometown 610 office which is, um, part of the party cadre school of the provincial party commission which was often used to put away political prisoners, and it was very dirty. there were four volunteers though who kept their activities up as we had planned even after my husband and i had been arrested, and they were also detained illegally just because they insisted on the balloons
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and gift bags and doing it. and their detention, also, was not one that was done with any warrant. it was completely legal. [speaking chinese] >> translator: there are hundreds and hundreds of people who have been to see chen guangcheng and to, you know, show their concern for him. i, myself, should be considered one of the lucky ones. everything that i've encountered is not nearly as violent, i'm sure, as what a lot of other people have encountered. they've been beaten terribly, brutally, their bones have been broken, their skulls have been broken. i've even told of a 16-year-old
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high school kid who was beaten in his genitals, and i myself, really, i just have a lot of contact with reporters and i'm also a catholic, so i maybe am considered quite as egregious, so i'm not as subject to quite as terrible treatment as some of the others. [speaking chinese] [speaking chinese]
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>> translator: so you see what happens here when you have a brutal, rogue regime that, these brutal powers that they have, and they have no respect for the law, and they're basically stomping on people's rights and stomping on the laws themselves. chen guangcheng and his family, he and his wife, have suffered much, much, much more than i have, and he himself is known all over the world for doing what he did, standing up to protect other people's human rights. here is this father of two right now here today who is trying very hard to protect his family. the question is, what should be done, how should we treat him, what should we do? we need to show him with concrete actions. thank you.
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>> well, i want to thank the panel. congressman smith just got a call, and he'll be back in, but i want to thank the panel. i wish every member of congress could have been here to hear it. i have a number of questions which i'll wait as mr. smith comes in, but i had a number of observations i wanted to make based on the testimony. one, i personally want to thank the media. it's very easy in the political business to criticize the media, but if it were not for the media covering the story, and as the young witness was just referring, every time she referenced it, it was somebody from the media from some country that was with her, and i just want to, one, thank the media. also i want to make it clear that we appreciate very much the bravery of the chinese people. and i would hope that they would know particularly as a result of this hearing that the representatives of the state department in beijing do not represent the viewpoint of the american people. there is a, there is a distinct
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difference. third question i wrote down here, is there a representative of the state department here today? is there a representative? will both of you -- will you -- you don't have to identify yourself, will you be getting this information to secretary clinton as soon as you come back? i understand she's there today and also tomorrow, is that correct? >> [inaudible] >> right after. well, i appreciate that very, very much. the other thing i would say as i was sitting there listening, when i think of the words ronald reagan when he said the words of the constitution we're in covenant with the entire world, and congressman myth and i were in a beijing prison where, number one, tiananmen square prisoners were there. i think if president reagan were president right now the difference that this would be, i mean, can you imagine what would be said by president reagan
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versus with regard to this, this administration? lastly, and then i'll have some questions if mr. smith doesn't come back in, i have been here since 1981. i see a direct parallel with what's taking place today in china with the unraveling of the romanian government, the activities of the chinese government are literally parallel with chow chauchesku. it's like they found. [applause] chess ca's playbook, and they didn't realize what happened, and they're fouling his play -- following his playbook. and it's somewhat similar to what took place with regard to russia before it fell. i wanted to ask bob fu the question, or if anyone here can sort of explain it, can anyone explain the difference between the comment that i heard on the news yesterday that chen wanted to kiss secretary clinton if he
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could versus the reality? yes, ma'am, would you -- was that a translation problem, or was that a -- >> [inaudible] >> okay. >> i was on twitter, and chen guangcheng had a phone conversation with one of his closest of friends. she is, her name is -- [inaudible] she's the wife of one of the most prominent dissidents live anything beijing. -- living in beijing. so chen guangcheng and the wife of this dissident had a conversation, had a call. over the phone call, when the wife told chen guangcheng that, oh, we heard on the news that
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you said that you want to kiss secretary clinton, chen guangcheng said, no, that's not what i said. i said i want to meet him. so now in light of the past -- at the time i just thought, oh, how funny, how convenient that to make this mistake. i just thought it's just not something significant. but in the -- now, i also don't want to overinterpretting, but over the last two days it does run over my head, kiss and see, how close the pronunciation is. did they pretend not to hear it? i mean, i'm just asking. the congress can ask the same question, but chen guangcheng told his friend that what he didn't say he wants to kiss clinton, he want to meet clinton. so that's what she, this friend,
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tweeted on twitter. >> now, was the that comment then put out by chen, or was it put out by the state department? >> no. >> the first comment about he would like to kiss the secretary, was that put out by chen, or was that put -- >> no, that's put out by the state department in the media. >> okay. >> and the tweets, i can send you the very tweet that clarifies this confusion. >> now, yesterday assistant secretary poser called me yesterday morning and gave me a briefing which sounded so upbeat and positive and said that he was going to meet with, that he had gone to the hospital with chen, and he was going the to be with chen on thursday and on friday. today is thursday. does anyone know if he was with him today? have you spoken?
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>> who? >> secretary, assistant secretary posener. >> oh, assistant. i have no idea. >> he said i was with him, went to the hospital with him, and i would be with him on thursday and with him on friday. nobody, nobody knows? >> no. >> did, do you believe -- [inaudible conversations] okay. oh, okay. my sense is -- well, can you tell me, do you think the environment changed? apparently, i've heard some very positive things about ambassador locke. i was one who opposed ambassador locke's confirmation to the ambassadorship, and i told him so, and he knew it. but he came up to me later, and
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he said i think i'll be proud of my act -- i think you'll be proud of my activity. i've heard very positive things about ambassador locke. do you think this went south after people came from washington, that ambassador locke was basically trying to do the right thing, and when campbell -- who is a member of this commission, interesting enough -- and others came out from washington it began to go south and go bad? does anyone have any feeling -- was locke trying to do, basically, the right thing, and then when washington intervened, it went poorly? does anybody have any comment about that? mr. horowitz? >> i think that the just written in the cards to end the way it did, and be i want to come back to at least my judgment, congressman wolf, that this end was predictable based on the sacrifice of bargaining leverage and the absolutely inexcusably
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poor bargaining that took place. and if it turned out that some of these people in the state department were pleased -- michael posner, ambassador locke -- after the end of a verbal agreement that, where we indicated to china that we needed to get this thing wrapped up before they sent every signal they did, so much more's the pit, so much many's the criticism. there may be malice or what not on their part, but i come back to the notion that anybody skilled in serious bar gaining -- bargaining could have predicted the outcome of a negotiation that took place on the terms that it did. >> ms. richardson, you mentioned and i thought it was a very positive idea, could you go into a little more detail about since secretary clinton and geithner -- although personally i don't think geithner's that's
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interested in human rights and religious freedom -- but can you talk to the merit of both secretary clinton and secretary geithner going directly and involving themselves personally and even going to the hospital to visit chen? can you tell us why you think that would be important and how that would be helpful? i think it'd be very, very helpful. >> i think it's both the immediate circumstances and the longer-term game, so to speak, in the sense that i think with every hour that goes by when american officials don't have access to chen, the stakes go up. and on your earlier question, the post, "the washington post" has been reporting for several hours that american officials haven't had access to him since they left the hospital. and so i think it's a moment that requires some fairly dramatic action on the u.s.' part to demonstrate the gravity of the situation and the length
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to which it's willing to go to try to rectify it. we and many others have made the point for a long time that unless and until a much broader spectrum of u.s. government officials -- even if they don't necessarily ostensibly have a stake in the human rights fight, and in my world that's a very short list of people or agencies -- that, that the u.s. looks stronger and more coordinated the broader a group of diplomats raise these issues. and so i think in this particular moment when a very visible gesture is likely necessary to get things back on the rails, so to speak, that to have not just secretary clinton and be not just ambassador locke who, obviously, have been deeply involved in all of this, but to have a broader cross-section of u.s. government officials to
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demonstrate the depth and the breadth of concern about human rights issues across the government, it's one way of really making that point. we've asked for years that all of the agencies that participate in the strategic and economic dialogue be tasked with at least one human rights talking point. partly because you never know who's sitting on the other side of the table and be might be slightly more retentive to that issue, but i also think that kind of coordination across the u.s. really registers with the chinese side. and it was not my sense going into this before the chen incident arose, it was once again my sense, i should say, that going into the force that the u.s. was any more poised to demonstrate a broader commitment to human rights than it's been in the past. so i think this is a great moment to set a new precedent and have kind of a broader cross-section of diplomats turn up. >> so this is a real test for the obama administration.
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>> oh, i think a lot depends on what happens in the next 48 hours or so. >> i have written every official in the obama administration, the state department, the trade rep comes before my office, my subcommittee funds it. i have asked them to go visit -- not to worship, but to visit -- a house church, an underground church, catholic church, a protestant church with the buddhist monks to visit, and not one person in the administration, not one person has responded and agreed. and ambassador kirk who we fund in my committee has refused, has refused to go to any house church or to visit. now, in all fairness the bush administration did not visit either. i wrote all the officials in the bush administration, and they, they did not visit. but this administration has failed, and we will furnish for the record the letter that we have sent. and when i get back to my office, we will call the state department and ask for secretary clinton to go and try to see
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chen directly. has the president or the vice president of the united states, president obama or vice president biden who i believe is trying to develop a special relationship with the chinese, have they spoken out, or would it be helpful to have the president go to the rose garden and go to the press office and speak out forcefully with regard to this issue within the next several hours? could anyone hell me, mr. horowitz -- could anyone tell me, mr. horowitz? >> i think talk is not going to work anymore. yes, i think it would be marginally useful, but i think the chinese would interpret that as for domestic political consumption only. i think action is very important. i think -- there are two things in that regard. one, what yao said about the tweets coming out of china saying this is a sign of
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weakness, the united states embassy was a bastion of hope, a symbol of resistance and so forth, and now they've sold us out, they've let us down, the ironic part is -- and i think you've made the point -- that that will translate absolutely in the negotiations that secretary geithner wants to do. it's seamless. that was the point that sophie just made. if we project weakness and surrender, they will accept that on every level in which they deal with us. so i think that's the problem. and i think the only response, i come back to what i said, and it's something you have labored on. i've said more than any member of congress, but action counts. and i think there may be other actions. but one that i think is very, very clear and very directly related and directly related to the protection of all of the people caught in this tragedy is for the united states to openly and robustly mount a commitment
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to tear down the firewalls so that the kind of censorship that now takes place with not more than a handful, relative handful of chinese can even type in the word of "chen," let 20 million, 30 million chinese type in the word "chen" and get it on their cell phones, and we can do it in a matter of two to three months. as you well know, mr. wolf, that's a response. it will protect chen guangcheng and his family, but it will also send a signal to china that we are not a weak country, and we are not a surrendering country. i think that's -- and just a speech by the vice president, that's politics, and the chinese will understand that, and it will not effect them, in my judgment, at all. >> in the interest of mr. smith, i think what i'm going to do is to recess the hearing briefly so he can come back in.
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let's just recess for five minutes, if we can. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> the commission will resume its sitting, and i just want to apprise everyone that bob fu has made contact with chen
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guangcheng in his hospital room. we just had a, an interesting and be, i think, enlightening conversation, but we're going to put him on the speaker. [speaking chinese] [inaudible conversations] [speaking chinese]
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>> translator: and let me -- i want to make the request to have my freedom of travel met, freedom of travel guaranteed because i'm not -- the translation, sort of -- he wants, he said he has not have any, all he wants to come to the u.s. for some time of rest. he has not had any rest in the past ten years already. [speaking chinese] >> translator: i want to meet with the secretary clinton.
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[laughter] [speaking chinese] >> translator: i hope i can get more help from her. [speaking chinese] >> translator: i also want to thank her face to face. [speaking chinese] >> translator: i really fear for my other family members' lives, and we have installed seven video cameras, and even with the electric fence. and now he wanted to, he said,
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um, the, those security officers in my house and, basically, said we want to see what else chen guangcheng can do. [speaking chinese] >> translator: so i, the thing i'm most concerned right now is the safety of my mother, my brothers, and be i really want to know what's going on with them. thank you very much. >> chen, thank you very much. as i indicated a moment ago, you have a panel of people who have just testified on your behalf, all of whom deeply, deeply care about you, your family as well
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as those who helped you including hu who we are all desperately concerned about her whereabouts and her well being, your nephew and others who, again -- one person who just spoke, mrs. wang spoke about her efforts to see you and how she was mistreated repeatedly including strip searches, and i think the word is getting out, and there are a number of members of the national and international press here that your case is the test, the test of the chinese commitment to protect you which they've given, we're very dubious about those assurances, but it's also a test of the united states as to whether human rights really do matter. so your plea that the secretary of state, who did not meet with you in the embassy, go to your
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hospital room and meet with you and you and your family and your supporters need to be on a plane coming to the united states for, as you put it, that rest that you so richly deserve. [speaking chinese] [speaking chinese]

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