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tv   Today in Washington  CSPAN  July 4, 2013 2:00am-6:01am EDT

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[laughter] major he and. i always hates the first question. [laughter] anyone who pops up like a jack of the box scares me to death. those lights are bright. make it a good one or i will embarrass you. [laughter]
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>> george shultz, what are you doing for a living these days? >> i tried to live up for my four great-grandchildren who to me represent the future.
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and i look at them and i say to myself what can i do to make the world better for these kids? >> as a distinguished fellow at the hoover institution, what is it that you do? >> well, i work on the problem of nuclear weapons and how to get better control of them. eventually to eliminate them. i work on economic issues. there is a great economics group. i work on energy subjects, working a great deal on that. and i've also been trying to reflect a little bit about my experiences to see if there is anything that can be learned from them. i actually wrote the book to try to do that. >> and that book is called "issues on my mind. secretary shultz, but is the main issue on your mind today? >> the main issue is the united
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states had a great deal of constructing after world war ii. in effect we constructed a security and economic commons that served us and everybody well. that is being torn apart right now to the and we have to understand what is happening. and we have to be ready to interact in a constructive way to build a more coherent world than the one that's developed. so i reflect on my experiences, and the but you held up on the different ways which we need to go about them we have some real opportunities in front of us. we have some issues pilat of the things i propose that we talk about are so controversial that nobody even want to hear you talk about them, but anyway, i do. so i enjoy that, so i do it.
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>> how would you say the world is security lies today as opposed to when you were the secretary of state from 1980? >> and 1980's when i was the secretary of state, we had the main thread of the soviet union and how you contain that. maybe you remember that from those days. the nuclear cloud was always somewhere. i think that has diminished a great deal in terms of russia. but the threat is more of a greater disbursement of nuclear weapons. it is a proliferation sometimes in the hands that are not deterred a -- detour and the world is falling apart and this
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is very disturbing i think. >> the rogue states, iran, potential nuclear power. how should it be handled? >> well, we have said is unacceptable. i remember -- and i use this in my book. when i was a bit in the u.s. marine corps you think you've joined the marines, you haven't to get you only survive but can't if you become a marina. i remember the day the sergeant handled me -- handed me my rifle. he said good friend. and remember one thing. never point this rifle at anybody unless you are willing to pull the trigger. no empty threats. malae told that story to president ronald reagan on occasion and he loved it because we said to ourselves we have to be very careful what we say so people will realize that when we
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say something, does have a consequence. and if it isn't going to have a consequence, we don't say at. as with the administration has in mind, i don't know. but they basically said it is unacceptable for iran to get a clear weapons, the option is not i think secretary perry testified it isn't containment. the object is prevention. so i don't know what their strategy is, but it better be tough. >> secretary shultz, what about the super powers that have nuclear weapons, russia, the u.s., china? should there be more talk? should there be less weapons, should they be dismantled? >> one very positive thing has taken place. we have a lot of positive things. but one more recent was about three years ago i guess, living
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alumni convened a meeting in washington, 40 heads of government came. and the object was to see how everybody involved can do a better job of controlling the fissile material. that is what it takes to make a bomb. that is the hard part is getting the material. and then there was followed with another one to two years later and i gathered there was another scheduled in amsterdam. more and more heads of government are involved in that and i think that is a very constructive thing and a recent thing that i've written along with it, people live been working with. we say let that morph into kind of a global nuclear enterprise
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and get the constructive states together to keep working on these different kind of things that need to be done. there are some between us and russia that need to be done but there are other things, too. >> what about when it comes to these states in the 80's you were part of the administration that strategically bombed libya. what about the bombing iran, at least its nuclear facility? >> well, just how you would go about that and how difficult it is, how successful you can be. i have no part of any intelligence accept to see that it's difficult. israelis are worried more than anyone. if the had a nuclear weapon on the end of a ballistic missile, they can do it. so, i think we've learned from
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reading when somebody like that, you should take it seriously and believe them. so i think we have to think about forceful means. but i am not in an informed enough position. >> in the issues on my mind, and you write when it comes to terrorism, in this country we$ç must think about the moral$ç$çd stakes involved if we truly$ believe in our space values and way of life, we must be willing to defend them. passive measures are on likely to suffice, the means of more active defense and deterrence must be considered and given the necessary political support. >> well, you say if you have a law enforcement approach you would say okay, let a terrorist act happen. then we find out who did it and try them and a u.s. court and if we make them guilty then they go
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to jail. what does that accomplish? uncertain deterrence but and mean time the act has taken place. and a terrorist act like 9/11 can kill a lot of people. so if you know something is coming at you, why not stop it backs and other words, prevention. and we say more -- when i first said that it was controversial but after 9/11 people would say of course. we should try to stop that from happening. so this doctrine is very important and it's become common that we did a great deal in this country and there have been lots of terrorist acts that didn't happen because we come out about their intelligence.
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>> we're talking with the former secretary, george shultz about his book "issues on my mind." mr. secretary, what was the favorite job that you ever had? >> well, you say job. that implies something that you do in order to have to get money. now if you say that i've never had a job in my life i've always found things that were interesting and rewarding. if i wound up doing something it wasn't like i would find something else to do. but in government, it's a great privilege and opportunity to serve. i had a succession of jobs. starting with my two and a half years overseas in world war ii. there i was fighting for my country and in the and we were victorious.
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i didn't have much to do with it but i served out their. i was on the council of economic advisers. was a great privilege. i remember going down and my office was in the big office but in right next to the white house. used to be called the old state building. anyway, i had an office with a window that looked down on the white house, and my father who died not long after that, he came and went into my office and he's all of you and he said you have arrived. so it was great to work their. and when you are working in the white house you have a view of the whole government. i learned a lot about how you put the statistics together that we talk about all the time. so that was a great experience.
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then when i was the secretary of labor i knew the subject matter very well and i knew the department will because we had done things in the candy and the johnson administration that gave me that exposure but i didn't know anything about washington and politics and the press and all of that. so i had a good base of knowledge from which to learn about these things. i was fortunate in persuading and man to come and be the press person. joe had worked to "the new york times" for decades and he was the premier labor reporter and he was a really good. everyone with his stories and his subject and he said he would sign on but he had conditions. i said okay what are your conditions? he said first of all, if i'm
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going to be the spokesman, i have to know what's going on. i have to be able to look at the enemy to be a i don't want to be blindsided. if i'm blind siged, the nine over. i said you can go anywhere you want and anyone would be glad to have you. you know that. what else? he said don't lie. i said come on i don't like. he said are you surprised what happens to people they come down here, get under pressure, the mislead, misleading is as bad as longing for you have to be straight. i said okay he said never had a press conference unless you have some news. i said don't reporters kind of like to salute the round and he said you know they are trying to make a living and the way you make a living as you get a story with your name on that and it gets on the front page of your
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paper. you pull the news conference and they think this is my story. if they come and you don't have any news, what's he going to do? his current start asking questions to make you say something stupid and that's the news. he had a whole bunch of things like that. so we learned a lot about the press from joe. sometimes people right things you don't like. on whole if you have a constructive attitude and you help them get the facts straight, you will be much better off in the white house who was the political counselor and relations and he took me under his wing to a certain extent. he had rules. he said never make a promise the
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most you can deliver on that. it turns out it's harder because people only deal with you if they have -- trust you and the trust you if you do what you say you are going to do. he said trust is the claim of the realm. so i always tried to remember that. in the labor department i had some -- my first big battle in the congress and i learned about. then i went from there to be the director of the budget. and then you have the whole government in front of you. then i became the treasury secretary. there was a time that we redid the international monetary system. had lots of dealings with people all over the world. and i learned a lot about how to
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do something internationally. so there was a great experience for me. it was fun and i enjoyed the people. some of them are still good friends today. but of course when i was the secretary of state the tectonic plates changed. when ronald reagan and i took office the cold war was as cold as it could get and when it was over it was all over with a shouting so there was a huge thing to be involved in and watch untold. >> in your book issues on my mind, you have rules for leadership and a couple of those stifel for the expanded on, the bryce harlow rule. but the first this to be a participant. >> that is what democracy is all about. early on when i was working with him in the primaries ronald reagan gave me a tie and this is
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democracy isn't a spectator sport. so be proud of it. be part of the politics but to participant. >> tool number fight, competence is the name of the game in leadership. >> it is a great start. if you are not competent you will be in big trouble. i had a tough experience with that though. i told you when i went to washington as the secretary of labor i was kind of an innocent in politics and i had a bunch of political appointed spots to fill, and i realized you are trained to work with a diverse constituency. so i said i need the best management in this industrial labour relations field that there is. then there was one named jim
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hudson and i talked to him and we said we have to have a real labor guy, someone who negotiates and contracts and sells them to the rank and file. so we found a guy who really knows manpower training. we have to get somebody that's worked in the area of how to deal with discrimination in the workplace. so he knows the market. anyway, i get a lot of these people wind up and president nixon thought to that there would show progress in his administration. so he said why don't you bring them to the hotel and we will introduce them to the press. so we have a meeting, it goes well and i interview them to the press. then they ask all kind of questions and was obvious he was
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a pro. someone in the back of the room holds his hand up and says are you a democrat or republican? i've never been asked that. he said i'm a democrat. it's a dazzling to read the same month of his hand up and says i'm a democrat. the last one. arthur burns was close to president nixon. finally we have a republican. so i asked him the question and he stands there like a camel chewing and finally he says i guess you'd have to say i'm an independent. anyway, get back to my hotel
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room, the phone is ringing off the hook and the republicans on the senate labor committee say don't you know there was an election? i said i cleared the names in the white house and with the ranking republican jacob javits. but anyway i give them credit because all of them did a terrific even some of the people who called me and said we like your guys. jim hudson later became our ambassador of japan and the first omb and he was a brilliant president of northwestern university. so if label all these people out because they were registered democrats i wouldn't have had the confidence. i should have asked the question and done something about it.
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but any way if you have competent people around you, you will do much better. team and get people who are competent. >> that leads to rule number six in the george shultz but finally give your people on your teams responsibility and reward them for exercise. >> you want to be able to say here is what we are trying to achieve. this is our objective. and in your part this is what you are supposed to be doing. and yes, you and i will work on it together but this is your responsibility. and i want to administer on the basis of no surprise that if something happens. if something happens surprisingly good, i would like to know that, too because we can
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learn from those things. but you've got to get people leaderships and objectives and hold them accountable. accountability is important in an economic system more governmental system. sports is a teacher of accountability. and in my book i have pictures of sports. but american people love sports. and i think one of the reasons is the sense of accountability. there you are standing on the grain. you have the putter what, there is the ball, there is the cup. you hit the ball and when it stops rolling, the result is unambiguous, real accountability that is a picture of president ronald reagan and me and will was our referee.
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ronald reagan and i had the new year's eve golf game every year and one year they showed up on the golfing team and was quite a day. they were fun. >> george shultz, and issues on my mind you write about your time as the treasury secretary. why did you resign? >> the atmosphere became rather discouraging even though i had a lot of really good experiences. one day i'm sitting in my office and the director of internal revenue the commissioner comes to see me and the same with johnnie walters. he said i just had a visit from the president's council and he hands me a list of 50 or so names of people to do a full field investigation of their tax returns. that is a very unpleasant process.
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they said what do i do? i said you don't do anything >> what do i tell john dean? >> tallman your report to me one. >> it is interesting later in the nixon tapes i heard him discussing this and they basically said who does he think he is not doing what we want but they never had the nerve to put it to me because if i resigned refusing to do something improper with the internal revenue service that wouldn't be a very good story for them. but anyway, then i inherited the administration on raising price controls which i had opposed originally that wasn't in my domain. incidentally the two people running it for me were wrong rumsfeld and cheney. anyway, we were in the process of trying to get rid of them. they went against my advice and opposed them.
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i said well mr. president, it's your call, you're the president but i think it's a mistake and you should get yourself a new resigned on the the policy issues. >> mr. secretary, did you have -- >> it also illustrates something in these jobs they are very who rewording and you have a chance to deal with really major things and often you can really make a difference so you tend to enjoy it but you can't love the job too much. you have to be true to yourself. i felt if i stayed under the circumstances of the decision i wouldn't be too much.
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>> did you have a good relationship or what kind of relationship did you have? >> i have a very good relationship with him were. one of the first things i did as the secretary of labor was in philadelphia in the skilled construction trades there were no blacks tall if they were around who were skilled. they were working for those in the area and break them up. they have capable people but nevertheless they get more
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people there and let's have an objective. let's have a timetable and get going so we are trying to manage this process. as you could imagine and was very controversial. i always knew the secretary of labor and all of a sudden i'm in this controversy and i am called to testify in the senate. somebody says you are trying to oppose the system. i said i'm trying to replace one and get rid of one. what do you mean? its zero. it's been very effective. so we went back and forth and then there was a vote in the senate. i went to the gallery to watch and the republican leader gave me a tally sheet that is reprinted in the book. we went by ten votes. it was a very bipartisan group for and against but it was very traumatic. unless the first battle and i felt bad about it because i was
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on the right side of the issue and incidentally one of the senators with me was ted kennedy. we became odd good friends and had a different views on a lot of things but we got along well and that was helpful to me later when i was the secretary of state. >> are you still in touch with donald rumsfeld and with cheney? >> he was over in london i had the privilege of being at a meeting with jim baker at the american delegation and he showed up there and his wife and they were good friends. so we had a chance to see him. he was amazing. i said you are looking great. he said well i feel fine and. i had three hard years. he had a heart replacement but now he's looking and feeling great and strong to catch up
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with these people. >> what about secretary rumsfeld? >> i don't see a lot of him that i'm in touch. he has a new book coming out and i wrote a little piece for it. a little back-and-forth. it's a book that he's done this nonet unknowns and all that stuff. it's a good book. interesting book. >> mr. secretary, what was your relationship with margaret thatcher? >> well, i had a really good relationship with margaret. often we argued about things and you know, she is a pretty fierce our reviewer. but she doesn't like what dogs to the people just say yes margaret, yes margaret. so we would go at it but and underlined we of thinking about things we were very similar so a lot was constructed by the already in and margaret thatcher
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relationship and i was glad to be part of it and i was glad to go to the funeral because i had been close to her before i was in office and after we left office we still at times we were together. so i was glad to have a chance to go and pay my respects because i think it is a fair statement that between margaret thatcher and ronald reagan and their leadership it changed the world. the art of history was changed. >> page 245 of issues on my mind to the you wrote in my view the most striking trend now is something else. it's the growing dynamism and cooperation of like-minded nations that share an important set of positive goals. >> that's what i think the u.s. leadership we managed to do
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after world war ii. remember, there were some really great statesman in the truman administration. and this was carried on to beat these people look back and they solve the two world wars. the first one settled on a radanovich vindictive terms. the second was a 70 million people were killed and untold others displaced. they saw the great depression. they saw the protection of some in the currency manipulation. they solve the holocaust. they said to themselves what a crummy world and we are part of it but we like it or not. so they set out to construct something better. they solve the soviet union and its aggressor force and the developed ideas like
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containment, institutional structures. the brentonwood system of economics and the trading effort to construct and the security efforts that were made. over a period of time, each successive administration made its contributions. it was constructed in the commons and that is what i am referring to. people contributed to it and benefited from that. it was the u.s. leadership without a doubt. and i think it is fair to say that without u.s. leadership, constructive things have been handled. what does it mean that people do what we want? but it means when the u.s. is there with ideas and is an effective participant, it helps
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to get things moving. i have seen that personally on many occasions. so, that has been a great achievement. i remember in the early 1980's i was in at china and had a meeting and he said now china is ready for the two openings. he said first of all the open for the movement of people within china, and opening within china. what was the second one? and opening of china to the outside world to be at and i'm lucky there is a recently cohesive world to open up to. he understood that very well. so that is what i was referring to. and that is the struggle right now that this is being torn apart in many ways to the the world as the work in change. >> how should we view of china?
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>> it is a big country with a lot of talented people. it's had a remarkable economic renaissance. a very large problems to contend with. but it is a major road do we have that relationship now? >> i've been out of office for 25 years. but i was a part of the little group henry kissinger organized that has meetings, some in china and others seven or eight of us and about a year ago we were in
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china, and the man who's now the president come he gave a dinner for us and spend time. we had a lot of discussion. and the next day we spent about an hour and a half with the new premier and i said you know they are giving us a message. they want to have a collaborative relationship in the united states. that doesn't mean we don't have problems. but it means that we can talk about the problems. maybe we agree to disagree on something and find ways of dealing with. i know that when i was an office my first meeting with the chinese they said they liked the idea of my counterpart in the they said you put on the table everything you want to talk about and i will put on the
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table everything i want to talk about. let's make an agenda out of that. and let's agree i will come to china for once a year at least and you can come to the u.s. once a year and there are three or four meeting places where we both come to a meeting of some kind and let's set aside three hours or so just for us to work through this agenda. that served us well. we identify some opportunities and all problems some of which we couldn't deal with, but on whole. and we did a lot in the soviet union the same where he could say to me i know why you are here and you are trying to get it this way i can't have it like that. but if you do it like this may be that could work.
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so that's the way to do things if you can develop a reasonably trusting relationship with the other party. so i think undoubtedly will handle big disagreements with china. right now this labor area is intense in my judgment, but the way to do it is to sit down and talk with each other, be you ever want to be the secretary of the military of defense? >> that is a tough job. i was never asked to do that and i didn't think about it very much. but i know it's a very hard job. i guess if i had been offered i
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would have taken it. if the president asks you to do something that you can do, i think you have an obligation to do it. i consider myself still to be a marine so in the military forces. and as the secretary of state i had a lot of dealings with the military. i said to my counterpart one time i said according to the statute, the national security council consists of four people, the president, the vice president of the secretary of state and secretary of defense. and this is in the statute each member is entitled to military advice. he said i'm willing to talk to you. i said do you know what i'm here for? i want to talk to the guys in uniform. after that found happened i found out of the chairman of the joint chiefs likes to play and
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gulf and i had been a member and noble river turns down an invitation to go. i invite him down for the weekend so we got to know each other. but it's important to have direct military advice when you are conducting diplomacy or there is something happening. >> did you have a direct line to president ronald reagan when you were the secretary of state? >> we have a system where we had two private meetings a week. obviously but i always brought in agenda to talk about. we have an understanding we wouldn't try to make a decision in those meetings because they should be argued out in the broader context. but i would go and say look here's this problem you can see on the horizon.
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we don't know what's going but here's the way that we are thinking about it and what we are trying to do about it. what do you think? we would go back and forth. he was a leader at one point and he liked to talk about bargaining and negotiation. i had my experiences in the labor arena so we will swap stories back and forth and i got to have the really good understanding of how he went about things and thought about things so i thought that was important because i am representing him and people sometimes say what about your foreign policy and i say i don't have one, ronald reagan has won. my job is to help them formulate me. >> from what you have observed has the will of the secretary changed since you were there in the 80's?
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>> it looks to me as though they are in the same kind of relationships that i had with president nixon or jim baker had with george bush -- i don't know exactly the reason. but i saw the other day that the adviser went to moscow to meet with putin and started arranging that relationship. if i were the secretary of state, i wouldn't tolerate that. so that's my job. and the national security adviser staff person with him, remember when colin powell got the job of the national security advisor reach he understood it and he came around to me and he said i am a member of your staff
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the president is my main guy but my job is to stuff the council. so that is what got me out of kilter and in my book i had quite a lot to say about the structure of government in what is going i think in the long direction. >> secretary shultz, a couple more issues on your mind. number one, demographics. you are worried about demographics. >> i'm not worried about it, interest observant of its and the demographics have changed and are continuing to change rapidly. the countries have low fertility, rise and longevity to the they are getting to be older societies which has an impact on your outlook and capabilities. the russians have a demographic catastrophe on their hands. very low fertility.
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longevity is only a little better than 60. women live 12 years longer than men of. a lot of the younger talented people are immigrating. they have huge problems in the caucasus to deal with border with china a lot of people on the one side partly have anybody on the other. so, but the demographics underlining this are devastating china has in some ways the most interesting demographics because hour and 30 years ago fertility dropped and that meant that for a quarter of a century china has had a growing labour force and a declining number of people at the labour force had to support the demographic dividend. now those courts in the
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population are moving up. and this situation is about change. where suddenly you are going to have a declining labor force and a rising number, this time older people, but labor force has to support. it is a big change. meanwhile, do have a north africa and middle east country. fertility has come down some but it's still very high. and longevity is that big. so these are very young societies. and somehow, many of them have gotten organized in such a way that people don't have much to do. and the information and communication age which i talked about in the book, nowadays the people in charge do not any more have a monopoly of information or the ability to organize. that is entirely changed. so, in the mill least we see the
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arab awakening and the spark was only a spark. some one indonesia. all he wanted to do was start a business with fruits and vegetables. and the regulators wanted to get a bribe from him. they refused and squashed him. how do you expect me to make a living? i just wanted to work. it does a lot for you. you get some income for work and feel i deserve that. i did something and i got paid for it and deserve it. so, i think that in that turmoil, we are seeing in the middle east and north africa. that is going to settle down until people have something to do that's constructive. i know there are many kinds of issues that are tearing away at this but that is a fundamental
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and it comes when you can see it take a look at the demography to disconnect - to that you mentioned another issue that you talk about is technology and the use of technology. >> as i was saying, i don't think people quite appreciate the depth and the meaning of the communication revolution. it's changed the process of governance. it's particularly hard on the autocratic governments that have been there for awhile. but in the space governments people are accustomed to paying attention to what people want and nevertheless, it's new and it shortens the distance between the people who are governing and the people who are being governed. it's changing because people anywhere can find basic information and they can communicate with each other on
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their cell phones. we are seeing that all over the place. of course it's been prominent in the middle east, the russians have been struggling with it, the chinese struggle with it. it's a phenomenon that's very much present. >> final issue, domestic and international, the drug war. what can be done about drugs in the u.s. >> first of all we have to be willing to discuss the issue. it can't be a taboo issue. >> do you agree, are you willing to talk about it? >> i'm just listening. >> so for a long time nobody would discuss it. we had the war on drugs. and i remember in the nixon administration we were worried rightly about the damage drugs
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due to an individual and to our society. so, very much of the view that we need to figure out how to deal with that problem before word. and there was the idea, and pat moynihan who was counseling the white house thought that one of the things to do would be to fix it so that drugs are just not even here. so, he had a program of denial. they were writing up to camp david and i have a presentation so i'm studying my notes and pat is in a state of euphoria and an irishman in the state of euphoria is something else to commit he says to me we had the biggest gun in boston history. we've broken the french connection. that was the problem to the it so, going back to my notes. he pulls cells of and he says as long as there is a big popular demand for drugs in this
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country, there will be a supply. i looked at him and i said there is hope for you. but the effort to keep drugs out of here is a complete failure. the problem of drugs in the united states is relatively great compared to many other like-minded countries. so, we ought to at least discuss this and see what other people are doing. i think that there is a lot to be said for decriminalizing the use and small scale possession, the was possession only for your own use. if you do that, you don't get thrown in jail if you go to the treatment center and try to get some help. you also keep the jails from being full of people caught smoking marijuana or something.
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and they throw people in jail and all you do is make criminals out of them. that's where they learn it. so basically even getting drugs in jail. so, we should take a different approach because it is so important to try to persuade people not to take these drugs because they are so bad for them. and it's bad for society. and you can do things. look at what the country has done with cigarettes. there are still people smoking them that much less than before because we have had a fact campaign, not just advertising but a campaign to persuade people not to smoke. i remember the days ahead of the advertisement i would walk a mile for a camel and a pretty girl saying blow some of my way with a cloud of smoke and all these kind of things.
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so, if you see somebody smoking you think there's something wrong with them. don't think understand they are killing themselves? so the whole atmosphere has changed. that can happen. all kind of things can be done it. but we are spending a gigantic amounts of money on this war. and one of the results of this huge violence in other countries. and mexico for the last five or six years some 50 or 60,000 people have been killed. that is more than the war in afghanistan and iraq. so, they are huge costs. we think it's a mexican problem. >> where does the money come from the nine states, where do the guns come from? united states. so the drug lords often have better equipment and they are better organized. the new government seems to be
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struggling with that and we struggle with them but we have to say that we have to do something about that. one time in the office nancy reagan had heard just say no program. she understood this. and she went to the united nations. she was invited to give a speech on the subject and i went with her. and she said very directly that solutions to the problem start right here doing something about people taking drugs. it was a beautiful statement that she made to the estimate in your book you include a letter from nancy reagan to you. >> there is also a nice picture of nancy and me at the u.n.. but at any rate, she got a lot of pressure. she meant to say what she said. just like her husband. if that's what she thought, that's what she was going to
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say. and she did. and the impact in the world was just the opposite of what the drug bureaucracy thought it would be. people responded saying it is so refreshing to hear you understand that. we will work even harder with you. >> are you still in touch with her? >> i talked to her just the other day. i gave her a report on the funeral. >> two final questions. you mentioned earlier, mr. secretary, you're father -- >> i thought you said earlier that two final questions. >> those were on the issues. stat these are in general. you mentioned your father. who were apparent and where did you grow up? >> i was born in new york city, and my parents moved us to englewood new jersey which was a little bedroom community. my father worked here. and my parents were just wonderful my father grew up on a farm in indiana and somehow got
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himself to a university. first member of his family ever to go to college. and he was interested in history. and he got a scholarship to columbia and got a ph.d. in history and wrote a book with a famous historian. then he was asked to start a school buy then new york stock exchange trade people to the he started at school called the new york stock exchange institute and developed them into quite a fine institution. and he would take me -- most days people were on saturday mornings and now nobody works on saturdays anymore. but he would take me in when i was a kid. and afterwards we would go to a sandwich shop to it i could taste them today with the best sandwiches. then we would go to a football game of columbia or if there was
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an interesting lecture or something, we would go to it. >> and he would take me to all these things. he played catch with me and baseball and football and was a wonderful father. and my mother was just a wonderful person. she set very high standards. she wanted things to be just so she had great taste. so, i was very fortunate to have a lovely, talented, wonderful parent. i have got pictures of them all around everywhere. >> here at the hoover institution at stanford university another former secretary of state is located. your colleague, condoleezza rice. what would you think that if the secretary ran for president? >> well, she is a very capable person. and i haven't ever talked to her directly about that. but i know that she understands
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the political process is different running for an office and being a political person in high office even like secretary of state. so, whether she wants to indulge in that, i don't know. but she would be a candidate. >> did you ever run for office? >> yes. when i lived in massachusetts, a little town in massachusetts, when i was on the faculty at mit, our school had only a few students per class. and the students had a program for creating a breach in the schools pivotal little towns would together and create a breach in the school and i felt that there was a good idea. and so people said well then why don't you run for the school board? so i did. and the voters turned down the school but elected me by an overwhelming margin to a nonexistent office, so i ran. >> for the past hour or so we've
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been talking with former secretary of state labor and treasury george shultz. if she was on my mind. strategies forthis is 45 minute.
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>> i am very happy to see all of you. it is a wonderful evening to be in the city which i know of unfortunately through so many of your disasters. but i was thinking there is a little one for the children and a bigger one for the adults. i was thinking if the water flows, so can piece. so the history that is so vivid for me, the imprisonment, that history is not the whole story and it's very good to remember that and to see that we make our way everyday, every single step
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can be a different direction. so as i was thinking about what i wanted to talk about and read about coming and i don't have a lot of time, but i wanted to start by mentioning something that i find very disturbing which is that coming you know, our country and we are not alone. they should these people over generations starve them and have blockades and cuba for instance, iran and other places in the world and then we have some of the leadership who says we will start a slow withdraw and then the war is over.
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they're not. one to start there and also to go wanted these two new books. now, i have been trying for i guess the last 20 something years to stop writing books. [laughter] and i keep, you know, i totally
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get it that i work for the ancestors. and i am feeling very free. i finish something. i remember finishing the color purple 30 years ago. and just leaping enjoy. okay. undone. and i have had as an area with myself many times began done. anyhow, this book i am going to read first from the commission in the road. and i wanted to read a little bit about how that came about, how did i come to think of the life that i lead which is very -- when i am not, you know, on the road somewhere it is so quiet. so meditated. it is so conjunctive. it is so happy with me and my sweetheart who is a musician. one of the ironies of life, of
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course, i love quite so much. i fell love with the person who plays trumpet. [laughter] so, you know, life -- i'm sure it is the same with you. life is always just telling us, who you think is in charge. some dream, did you imagine that you were in charge? up, i will just show you. so this is a very short introduction to this book, the cushion in the road. i learned much from dallas to talk. it has been a comfort to me since i read my first doused palm which was sitting quietly doing nothing, spring comes, and the grass grows by itself. to me is is a perfect call.
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but there is also from that tradition, this thought, a wanderers' home is in the road. a wonder some is in the road. this is proved very true in my own life, much to my surprise because i am such a homebody. i love being home with my plants, animals, sunrises and sunsets, the moon. it is all glorious to me. and so when i turned 60i was prepared to bring all of myself to sit on my question in a meditation room that i had prepared long ago and never give up. [laughter] it so happened, it so happened that i was in south korea that year, of course. and south korea's agreed with me in fact, and that culture it is understood that when we turn 60, when we turn 60 we begin 80.
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it sounds like a gang. perhaps this is not have. spot. this means that we are free to become once again like a child. we are to rid ourselves of our cares, especially those we have collected in the world and to turn inward to a life of ease and pleasure, joy. i loved hearing this. what an affirmation of a feeling i was already beginning to have it. enough of the world. where is the grandchild? where is the question? and so i began to prepare myself to withdraw from the were afraid . their i sat finally on a cushion in mexico with a splendid view of a homemade stone fountain with us off the falling water, a perfect, sitting backdrop to what i thought would be the next and perhaps final 20 years of my
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life. unlike my great, great, great, great grandmother who live to be 125, i figure 80's doing really well. and then a miracle seems to be happening. america, america was about to alleged or not elect a person of color as its president. what? mike fish and shifted. then to an unsuspecting guest left raytheon. and i learned that bombs were falling on the people of gaza. a mother had lost five of her daughter's. didn't i have a daughter? what i have wanted to loser in this way? was and i am other? even if reportedly imperfect in that role.
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well, my question began to wobble. i had friends he became eggy and managed to stay eggy. i ended them -- and beat them. for me the year following my 60th birthday sensibly about teaching you something else. i could become like a child again and enjoy all of the pleasures and wonder that it's our experiences, but i would have to attempt to maintain this joint in the vicissitude of the actual world as opposed to the meditated universe i had created with its common, ever flowing fountains. my travels would take me to a celebration in washington d.c. where i knew president barack obama would be inaugurated. they would carry me the morning after the festivities to a faraway burma, myanmar, which would lead to much writing about sushi. it would take me to thailand for
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a lovely trip up the river or i could wait happily at the people is smile back when smiled upon. they would take me to gaza, yes, and much writing about the palestine as well impasse. to the west bank l.a. and india, to all kinds of amazing places like, for instance, pitcher in jordan. i would find myself resignation of chickens in between travels and this is a holy people in oakland, whitaker, and marcella. my cushions' often, the piece, because of my attention to some of the deep suffering in the world. sometimes seeing far away. i felt torn. a condition that did not like and did not recommend. and then in at dream it came to me. there was a long asphalt
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highway, like the one that passed by my grandparents place where i live with them as an aide and nine year-old. my grandfather and i sit on the porch and count the cars as a whiz by. he would choose red analogies blue black. it was a sitting on cushions of sorts, i suppose, for the two of us because powers would go by and we would be perfectly content to. perhaps that is why in the dream the solution to my quandary was available. they're in the middle of the along perfectly straight highway with a slightly faded yellow center line that i had known and loved as a child set my rose colored meditation cushion, directly on the yellow line, right in the middle of the road.
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so what do i believe? that i was born to wonder? and i was born to set. to love home was a sometimes almost unbearable a faction, but to be lured out into the world, to see how it is suing as might be loved larger home and paradise. [applause] >> in my kitchen for many years i have been supported by all of the photographs and sayings and poetry of people. recently i took down most of it because it had been there so long the edges are curling in the paper was turning yellow.
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when i came to this, i could not remove it. so i read it to you. one of the things that is so lovely about having a history in the place is to have poets who have gone before and you have left these wonderful guides to us. then you probably know this ." this is why you should do. love the earth in the sun and the animals. love the earth and sun and the animals. despises. at think it should be sheriff's this. give alms to everyone that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy. i love that part. stand up for the stupid and crazy. really, this fund will test us. [laughter] but it has to be done. you have to to stand up for them
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and to them. [laughter] [laughter] [applause] [laughter] devote your income and labor to others and to yourself. you are deserving. hate tyrants. you know, the tyrants, i don't know if fading them is going to change them. it doesn't seem to work very well. anyway, you can a tyranny. there is an argument that you have to agree is utah. you know, really. looking deeply, have patience and indulgence toward the people now, that is also a tall order, especially in how weather. have patience and indulgence
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towards people. take off your hat to nothing known or unknown or to any man or number of man. go freely with powerful -- go freely with powerful uneducated. and with the young and with the mothers of families read these leaves in the open air every season and every year real-life. we examine all the you have been told the school or church or in any book. reexamine it. dismiss whatever, whenever insults' year-old seoul or dismiss it and you're very flesh shall be a great palm. hallelujah. [applause] know what to read you something
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called in the -- ending the age a waste. now, and this time we always wonder about what is the most crucial thing to do. one of these essays i say that to me than most crucial thing we can do is regain our health. and in the second most crucial thing to do is to help other people to gain there's because if we are and help the people we are of less easily lead in destructive ways and we are so much less gullible. we are so much more clear headed in the wake. in fact, we were visiting just nice night a friend who has little dog named duke. every time we visited these friends poor old duke was a sleeping and discussion, sleeping, not meditating, sleeping. [laughter] and you know, just fat and lazy. and then his people put him on that night. in the entire time that we
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sought to glass ceiling he was just bouncing all over the place, bright night, happy, you know, full of -- and that is the way it can be with us. -- in this particular piece i'm saying something else. the most important thing humanity can do is believe in a self. and i do believe this is the truth. think we are in such danger of not believing in ourselves because we have gone so far. we have lost some much of what we thought was good, we thought was possible, we thought was right. the most important thing that humanity can do is believe in itself. we can grow, change, and rouse ourselves to exhibit gratitude. gratitude is what makes this wealthy. by respecting her limits to the only planet mother we have ever known.
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gratitude to the only planet mother we have ever known. until i was a teenager i had no experience of place. grandpa farm and little georgia, everything that we grew, build, rays, or soda, used until it was used up. there was no extra. and no such thing as liver. my parents were puzzled when they perceive that the beginning in their community among their relatives and friends among the children, i will quote the age of waste. neither of them knew what to do, for example, with this hour from containers or plastic cups. they bought items so wondrously made should certainly be priced. they carefully washed and reused in and tell their replacements
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began to appear at an alarming rate. [laughter] for a long time -- i mean, don't you just love my parents? i mean, just says that deer understanding, you know, what would become a problem. , for a long time they collected and carefully stash these new inventions in the kitchen pantry, believing, i suppose, that at some point there would come in handy. isn't that, you know -- [laughter] perhaps -- i just want to hug them. you know, i just want to hug them. there were so wise. perhaps they could be used to carry food to picnics, may be useful to share food if someone came to dinner and wanted to take food home. i mean, really, that makes much sense. how could they know that this plastic from that time to this would end up in the ocean
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killing turtles, dolphins, whales, and fish and presenting major health challenges to humans all because it was used once, used once internal i. my parents never more than spent three -- three small rooms in the kitchen with with a cat and carry themselves until they moved to town where everyone use the electric heaters. and in the chilly concrete rooms of the projects ran them in winter almost all the time, really feeling warm. my grandparents were even more frugal than my parents and lacked for a longer time both electricity and refrigeration. all food was eaten fresh, canned in jars for winter or smoked in ourself cured. in summer, the favorite fruit, watermelon, was kept cooled by placing mellons under the bed.
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a magical place to me as a child for the round, dark green treasure. you know, i recommend that when you go and buy watermelons, especially those steep cream once, if you have children, put them to bed. the children to find. it's absolutely of an. [laughter] they had kerosene lamps which they live just as dark and filled in their late sixties, they also moved. they, like my parents, grew everything they a kaj except for citrus fruit, sugar, coffee which they bought in town a few times a year. like my parents also, they raised face and chickens and grew gardens that made them some of the best fed people on earth. they knew nothing of artificial fertilizer, nothing of hot sun. nothing of pesticides. there was, as i recall, one
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major infestation of the garden among its tomatoes, tomato worms that were carefully picked off the plants by hand. as children we chased each other around the yard with these arms. surely huge and scary to see, like miniature green dragons. the largest of them even had horns. i was not afraid of them. my sister was terrified of them, which was really unfortunate fur. [laughter] what i have learned from these countryfolk and from my own life is that it is not necessary. it is necessary to be rich or even well-off to be happy. what is essential, what is essential is to have enough. much energy might go and to educating human beings about just what enough is.
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as a culture we in america have rarely seemed to know. part of this ignorance is because we inherited the consumer driven capitalist system and paid no attention to the people of indigenous cultures already here who were more like my parents and grandparents, extremely careful not to waste anything. if my parents and grandparents have had health care that included even a yearly visit to the dentist and a school that had been well equipped with teachers and materials and if work can provide a decent wage, our family would have been content to with a happiness that went beyond the mainly peaceful existence that we managed to make of what we did have. where we need to endure, another war on american soil, of the many and have been fought here, is a civil war that most think of as or.
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the indian wars, genocidal wars and indigenous populations are large the forgotten. but are we to have to have another war on our soil before we learn what is precious and live? and yet i think of the story a friend of mine told about being in nicaragua. you will recall that back the contract. one day she watched a member stooped down to pick up a paper clip that a drop down to the floor. nicaragua had been so impoverished that nothing more could be considered. she could tell by the look on his eyes that the paper "was cherished. this was the most moving moment in a time of witnessing there.
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this may well be held is harass. so wasteful of some much for so long. but maybe not. nestor adonises process a lot nuclear war during this very time now was sending, perhaps we can learn how to change our course in a way that means that we and all the resources will not be consumed more. war which is, perhaps, the most blatantly and intelligent and unproductive activity that humans are encased in. of course there are others. a general waste of resources constituting a major and on the war, unwinnable war, not only against our common mother, but against ourselves. the planet is fed up. the plan is tired of us.
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my friend bill of lakota and kickapoo ancestry used to come to my house exhausted from speaking up for mother earth and would collapse in a bed on my guess studio, spring glen tobacco and honor of her and saying tests, so tired, so weary , this respected and ravaged, i can hardly bear suffering. sometimes in his sorrow he would weep. always felt that if he were talking about his very best friend as well as his mother. he was. he died talking and singing in german to her, praying on top of maces where corporations were strip mining coal or chanting beside pristine rivers sent to be polluted from every conceivable contamination caused by drilling, mining, fracking, and other grotesque forms of ecological rape.
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he was always thinking of her, always in prayerful alignment. he was hircine. he did not forget this for a moment. we must all learn to know our as bill did, to feel with there, to know she is alive, that she is alive and needing affection, caring, love, that she gives us everything. you are we to give her nothing but basically grief. massive amounts of fate will be required that we can change in have to be worthy of her caring for us all these millions of years. all these millions of years caring for ross. they're is a bit of comfort in knowing that having done all we can, although we can, if we must go down we will go down together in heartfelt alignment, nerf
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mother and her earthly children and then hand, doing our best to save each other at -- already is selling a person or a parent. [applause] >> understand, i don't have all the time in the world, but i want to read you, if i can find it -- it just came to me. what do i get for getting all. and wait.
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here it is. what do i get for getting old. i really like this part because one of the problems, so many things. you can plug it in anywhere. the whole idea of being afraid of getting old even though you don't want to die is so bizarre. you know, i mean, would you rather just die and not killed? [laughter] what do i get for getting old? a picture story for the curious. of. how much more time? spam discernible. >> okay. in that case of going to reach insured ones. okay. wait. okay.
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i just, you know, okay. what do i get for getting old? a picture star for the curious. you supply the pictures. i get to meditate in a chair. now, -- [laughter] how many meditators are out there? because camino, in the ideal scenario you sit on a cushion, cross your legs and do the whole thing and have to be really correct. well, when you gettology can meditate in a chair. i get to meditate in a chair or against the wall with my legs stretched out. that's really bad news if you go to a meditation center or even in bed. there really don't think that's good. when you get all the can do that . half of what i'm looking and i get to see. [laughter] this changes everything. i get to dance like the tipsy old man i adored when i was an
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infant. they never dropped me. i get to spend time with myself never want to. i get to ride a bicycle with tall handlebars. my posture improves. i get to give out learning to sail. [laughter] i get to know i will never speak german. agate to snuggle all morning, counting the hours by how many times we get to the. [laughter] i get to spend time with myself whenever i want to. i get to eat chocolate with my salad or even as a first course. i get to forget to. agate to paint with
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-feel more love than i ever thought existed. everything appears to be made of the stuff. i feel this especially for you, though i may not remember exactly which you are. how cool is this? still, i get to spend time with myself never want to. that is just a taste, as heal people used to say, of what you get for getting all. reminding us as a witness by curiosity. no matter the losses, there is something fabulous going on in every stage of life, something to let go of maybe, but for darn sure something to get. [applause]
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>> okay. this is the last one. this is a poem about recognizing that san is actually a part of the discipline that makes us do we become. there is no such thing as living without it. and we might as well, you know, except that and work with it. and by doing that we can grow a lot. so, this is called hope to send only in the service of waking up . hope never to believe it is your duty to harm another simply because you mistakenly believed they're nice you. hope to understand suffering has the heart assignment, even in school, even in school, you wish
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to avoid but could not. hope to be imperfect. hope to be imperfect. all the ways that keep you growing. hope never to see another, not even a blade of grass that is beyond your joy. help not to be a snob on the very day love shows of in were close. hope to see your own skin in the woodgrains of your house. hope to talk to trees and at last tell them everything you have always thought. hope that the end to into the unknown knowing yourself, for getting yourself. help to be consumed.
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hope to be concerned, to disappear into your own love. hope to know where you are, paradise, if nobody else does. hope that every failure come every failure is a narrow pointing toward alignment. hope to send. hope to send only in the service of waking up. [applause] [applause]
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>> hi, ladies and gentleman. and the director, the designated bad guy. we have about ten or 15 minutes to take some questions. if you have a question please raise your hand and we would get a microphone to you. there is a gentleman in the back on the left with his hand up. yes sir. >> yes. i recently read a book one day in december. europe the introduction for the book. it is a biography. in reading the book i felt that her biography has a special
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relevance, especially to women in this century. briefly just to say that her life shows that it is possible for women to become leaders in a struggle to guarantee that everyone has a top quality medical care as well as education as well as an attempt to eliminate poverty. so i wonder she could just give a few words about why you decided to write the introduction to this book. >> there would be happy to. really the copartner with fidel castro in forming the cuban revolution. nobody in this country has hardly ever. so i get a lot of manuscript's from people asking me to read them, right introductions.
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in that picked this one of and started reading. about 400 pages long. it so astonishing, the life of this woman who made their revolution with fidel, the people that many of you in this audience are somewhat familiar with. she was a society yemen. her father was a doctor. i think it was because he was a doctor that she got to see some of what was going on to the people in our country. cuba at that time was a place for a lot of pedophilia. i mean, the people who did it were brought in from the united states or were members of the mob. it would come to cuba and gamble and avail themselves of
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prostitutes and very small children. one of these children was a child that was known because of her work with dr. fall that. and this child had been raped to death. this was a turning point for and for many of the women. all of these revolutionary women who took up arms and were co instigators of the cuban revolution to get rid of batista, this dictator who was in the pocket of the united states. so this -- i read this through. it is just amazing. nancy stout, the writer had access to the archives and all the letters between silly and fidel. and it is such an eye opening read because you understand that part of what -- we know so many
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of the reasons why we were kept in the dark about cuba. but one of the big things that we had no idea about was just how strong the women component was in that revolution. and so we were always shown just these men and basically had to be eradicated. in syria ourself lived to be 60. she died of lung cancer a terrible smoker. he died of lung cancer. i think she was always so stressed because she was always trying to protect fidel. they tried to assassinate him 648 times. and in the course of all of those stamps, aid is amazing. really an amazing people.
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they adopted children of the people who were killed. and they raise them even know half the time there were trying to find a place to hide him. whoever was looking could not find him. one of the other fascinating aspects was that they were a revolutionary partnership. they never married. and in cuban society at that time, i don't know about now, there are very rigid. you're supposed to be married. you know, you have to be married when a you getting married. eventually fidel apparently get around to feeling the heat. you want to get married. he did this at least twice. in these times is said no. and what they ended up doing,
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what she ended up doing was every time he proposed marriage shoebill the other a monster house and fix it up really beautifully. she did this from the very beginning. she was the person who makes sure that up and announce he was comfortable and had his own room she had aerospace. a very interesting -- its madison. i read through this. was so astonishing that i went right back to the beginning. i read it through second time. this is an affirmation is kept from us. that put an embargo to let tell you the people you will. and you just have to find out for yourself. and been there four times. have always had a wonderful time
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no food, no gas, no nothing. i still felt that these were some great people and i am very happy if they have had so many people who truly love them. one day we will have somebody who truly loves us. [applause] >> right here in the fifth row. ..
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poems and things an inspiration. i loved the lessons that you teach such as one about letting go of recent and a lesson that i really need to learn i will admit. just say that i highly recommend it. that's all.
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>> thank you. >> we have time for one more question or testimony. [laughter] >> all the way in the back. you can keep your hand down. i doubt i will get a paper clip again and not value triet thank you. >> and we say thank you to alice
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life. this is about an hour. ♪ ♪ ♪
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>> thank you very much. >> let sandy didn't say is that i have lived through one third of the history of the. [applause] which tells you what a young country it is or what an old man i am. i am so pleased to be here. sandy, thank you for the moderately good introduction george and gaffe then thank you for supporting this institution.
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we appreciate it. i am a supporter myself and i thank you. alves sandy said life in traveling around talking about the book "rumsfeld's rules." i'm told that you are ready to ask some questions. i will answer the questions i know the answers to bid i will respond to the others. [laughter] but before i do, just a few words about this book. i spent four years writing my memoirs, "rumsfeld's rules," i mean the known and unknown and as i did that i kept thinking about "rumsfeld's rules" and i decided that i should do that. it started because my mother was a schoolteacher. i started carrying a load cards
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like this and i still do to this day. she said at the end of the week read them and remind yourself of what they mean and i started writing down the fault or ideas or things that i felt were important. and i did that as a young man, as a boy scout. i did it as a navy pilot. i did it when i was in congress and then as said iran resigned from congress in 1969 in my fourth term and then went into the nixon cabinet and served in of the office of economic opportunity. and with my first executive's job i started making some notes about that. and then when president ford came and come he called me back to the transition. i was the ambassador to nato at the time. i told them.
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he'd been a legislator that never served in the executive position. and i told him that i keep those kind of little rules and i don't know what i said to him, maybe something like the staff shouldn't say the white house is calling. buildings can't call. he said what the shavit. you should circulate that to the senior staff and the white house and it ended up being named rumsfeld's rebels and it ended up gaining a life of itself and then new york journal and people had been reading it for now a quarter of a center of the i guess. but i decided to write a book about the rules. and that is now what has come out last tuesday. i tried to write it in a way that would be interesting to college graduates who were starting at the very beginning to people who were in the middle
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and had to have meetings. it was the chapter of the meetings. we have a chapter of rustling because i wrestled for ten years that's when you learned the relationship between the effort and results and it's terribly important. everything that you learn is to try to put yourself in their shoes and see what the world might look like for their perspective and that is useful in the negotiations as well. i knew then the present time at a business and learn the rules like a's tire a's and b's higher c's. it's true. one time my daughter said to me what you think i ought to do? what company should i go to or what business or what state.
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you are asking all of the wrong questions. the question is who are you going to work around? find someone bright and sparkling because you will find the people around the movie starkly and he will learn a lot. wonder why you? it doesn't matter what you do. be a around those people. she said like who? one was dr. herman, who was a futurist and was an interesting fellow that is long since gone. he was so intelligent and interesting as a person. but we proceeded to make other chapters, and towards the end as i was finishing the book, i thought about the fact that american business doesn't defend the capitalist system and i saw this occupy wall street. i listened to the national
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campaign, and i heard people talk about a growing government jobs. [laughter] it reminded me of one of the rules that washington, d.c. is 60 square miles of reality. [applause] the chapter on capital my road because i was worried that people in business -- christa all very few people and government had ever been in business because it's hard. it's easy for an academic to go into business. they can leave and come back to their world. it's easy for a lawyer to go into government and then come out. it's very hard for a business person. it their small business person, it's their business. they have to be there. of the are in a larger
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corporation, they get knocked off the ladder and they are out. and it's very hard to re-enter. as a result, you have people in business that my wife tells me that if you are in the government looking at business, you understand it intellectually but it's one dimensional. you don't have any idea. if you are in government what the government delayed us to business. you don't have any idea what uncertainty as to business. you don't really feel the impact of the regulations. i send my taxes every year and i always add a letter to whom it may concern, here are my taxes to be a i want you to know that i don't have the faintest idea if they are accurate. [laughter] i said i went to college.
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you know, i've got average intelligence. and my wife went to college and she won't even read them because she knows that she doesn't understand them. and i just want you to know that that is the case. i paid money to an accountant and he helps me and i hope they are right. if you have a question, just give us a call. [laughter] but can you imagine this country with the lousy tax system like that? is an excusable. how many people here understand their taxes? let's see, i don't see many hand is going up. but, i wrote the chapter because i felt i was in business and i know that a businessman has been a large company has shareholders, the of customers, and they haven't we ease. shareholders, customers and employees are all across the spectrum in the political views and ideas and parties, and
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therefore business people are reluctant to challenge and criticize the government. they don't want to divide their stockholders or their employees or their shareholders. they also worry about the irs. [laughter] if you don't understand your taxes, you ought to worry. i worry. i mean, i know i don't know. and they also if you were in the pharmaceutical business like i was, you got the fed said the cut food and drug administration and all of these alphabet regulatory organizations and to the extent someone criticizes the never met or challenges and approaches they're taking the worry that the government could be turned on them, and that is in my view why the current irs thing is so critical because the american people don't want to feel that their government is --
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that their government could be turned on them in a way that target's people pity if you can target one person, you can target someone else it doesn't matter if you are republican, democrat. and i think that's why it is so central. now, what i would like to do is have sandy or somebody -- where are these people? do you have microphones? >> i think you do. there you are. i would be happy to respond to questions as i say and even answer some. i will do my best. what you need to do what i suppose is raise your hand and sandy will bring you a microphone. >> i always hate the first question. anyone that pops up like a jack in the box with a first question scares me to death. >> those lights are bright.
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they did a good one. i'm going to embarrass you if you don't. [laughter] >> here's what we will do, mr. secretary. >> someone has to turn his microphone on. you had the floor appeared before. >> who has the first question? okay to the you've got it. is your microphone on? >> okay. mr. secretary, i do have two quick questions -- no, i am et one in july. i do not need multi part questions. [laughter] it is 7:15 and 10:15 in washington where i flew in from yesterday. single part question. [laughter] >> okay. >> but i mean, feel free to go ahead. [laughter] >> first question is will you -- know, you only get one. turn off his microphone.
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[laughter] >> will you write a book for republicans that says dell will not tax without dipping a tax decrease, thou will not raise expenses without some sort of cut in the middle? i mean i remember when i watched your interview on the letterman show, you suggested that there was a time in which our debt had reached like $100 billion or something like that and the world went crazy. second i was there. it was in the presidency of lyndon baines johnson. i was a congressman coming and was the first federal budget in our history that it $100 billion. everyone just gasped at the thought. >> but now it doesn't seem like -- >> now is a trillion dollar deficit. >> it doesn't look like the republicans are helping us any. so, will you write a book for
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them? >> let me say something about that. i think that the republicans, you know, there are people all across the spectrum in both parties. but, the -- i was asked -- i was speaking about leah their book known and unknown at fort leavenworth, the military base, not the present. [laughter] and there were i think 1490 majors from mostly our country but from around the world, too. it's a big school. someone asked me what is the biggest problem that i worry about when i go to bed at night? and the answer was american weakness. why do i say that? i think the signal that is being sent out from this country is that basically we are modeling american economy is on europe and it is a failed model. it doesn't work.
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and there is no way you can have the deficits that we have had and have the debt that we are incurring without sending out a signal to the world that this country is not going to be what it was in the past. there is no way that you can do that. if you are not going to act responsibly, people take that message and they see that. then you turn around and -- when my men to washington, eisenhower was president. i came out of the navy and then i served during kennedy and johnson. we were spending 10% of gross domestic product on defense. today we are spending less than 4%. our allies in europe are spending less than 2%. the signal that goes out to the world now with the sequestration is the week of $493 million out of the pentagon defense budget and we are about to cut another half a trillion which brings it
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closer to $950 billion out of a ten year budget. the signal that sends to the world is that united states isn't going to be in the position to a more peaceful and stable world in the decade ahead. >> [inaudible] >> [booing] ♪ ♪ >> mr. secretary, in the back of the room, a questioner. >> we will count him as undecided [applause] [laughter] roskam and mr. secretary, i am in the back.
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first i want to thank you for your service and second, i want to ask you it's been ten plus years since the start of the iraqi war. i would like to know about what you what happened and what you think is going to happen in iraq over the next few years. >> sure. first, with respect to the popular slogan bush lauded people died, bush did not lie. the intelligence was fashioned by george tenet and then you listen to the tonnes community. it was studied exhaustively by colin powell. he made the presentation for the country. to the united nations. it was supported by the congress of the united states, including senator hillary clinton, senator john kerry, senator jay rockefeller of hitting it was agreed to by our allies. it had been the policy of the united states for a decade that there should be a change in
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iraq. it was passed by a democratic senate and signed by bill clinton, the president of the united states. and the idea that that has become a theme against president bush it seems to me is unfortunate and it is the result of a fact that a narrative has been promoted in much of the media which just factually is not the case. now, all iraq what's went have been? i don't know we do know a couple of things. we do know that saddam hussein is gone, the butcher of baghdad that used chemical weapons on his own people come on his neighbors. we know that he killed hundreds of thousands of people. it was heartbreaking to see. we know that the country still
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has ethnic divisions among the kurds and the shia and the sunni. we know, however, that they have elected a prime minister and the president. we know they have a parliament. we know that the people are proud that they voted. the sunnis didn't participate the first time now and we are sorry they didn't and later joined in and now are participating. is it a tough part of the world? you bet. is it going to be an easy path from where they were to where they are going? no way. it's going to be a tough road but it was a tough road for us. look at our country. we had sleeves into the 1800's. we killed 600,000 americans and a horribly bloody civil war. women didn't vote into the 1900's. it is a bumpy road for almost every country. how what will come out? i don't know. i do know they have a chance and i know that i have a lot of respect for the young men and women that served over there and
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that fought on behalf of our country. [applause] hello mr. psychiatry, thanks for coming all the way to the wild west to see us all. we appreciate it. you said that you have seen about one third of the country's history to it so i would like to know -- >> i have lived it. i have seen it all. >> that's right. so, the question is can we turn it around? because right now seeing one thing after another after another coming out of this government, and you think that's going to do it to it that's going to turn the american public around. they will start paying attention. what can we do to turn it around? [applause]
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>> i think the first thing we have to do is recognize the idea that any one citizen can't do much is simply not true. our system is rooted in the reality that for it to work, each of us has to participate helping to guide and direct the course of this country. some people say maybe i won't vote. there are so many in the neighborhood that vote the other way. why bother? it doesn't make any difference if you write a letter to the editor or stand up and you have some mayors and state or local officials. if people are picking on them on a fairly it doesn't matter if i stand and defend them. it does matter. it makes a lot of difference and each individual can do a lot. what happens? i have watched it over the years. any time things got bad in the country and there are plenty of times it has been bad. in a lot worse than today to
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lead the american people have gotten out of their chairs and changed their priorities. if the pendulum gets pushed too far one day they get up and they shove it back where it belongs. they've done that. now is it possible there is a tipping point the pendulum gets shoved too far one way and you can't get it back? i suppose there is a tin plate pagen have we reached it? i doubt it. i think -- i have enormous confidence in the american people. think of all the people that rushed into the world trade center and new york. the people when it was attacked. think of the people that question to the pentagon and started pushing people out that were burned in the dining and injured and frightened. the american people have a lot. these streets were not paved with gold and the people that came from other countries and that built it into what it is.
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i have a web site, i put a speech by adamle stevenson that was given to my class in college in 1954. and if you have got young people that are wondering about the world, read that speech by adamle stevenson. he had to have any democrat. i don't think that he would have been a terribly good president to be honest with you. he was kind of a cerebral type. one of his campaign slogans was eggheads of the world unite, we have nothing to lose but our yolks. [laughter] but the speech to the senior class of 1954 was absolutely brilliant. and i think if you read something like that you are reassured and if you think about the people who do stand up and
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support people and understand how precious -- i have a couple of titanium hits and a titanium shoulder. i wanted all of their body parts they wouldn't give them. so in that comes a therapist to the house on time after my hip was done. they need to move this way and that way. he did it for three days. i said look i'm a good student. i can do it myself, thanks very much to be i sent him on his way to get he got to the door, turned around, and he said mr. rumsfeld, would you mind if i said something personal? i said no, go ahead. >> he said i came from nigeria. i've been here, i don't know, five or six years. he said this country is so special and he said i don't think that those of you that were born here really appreciate
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it. he said if you went to any embassy all across the globe at ten, 11 from 12:00 at night, you would see, the american embassy coming you'd people sleeping on the american lawn trying to be first in line to get a card to come to the united states of america. it is that important. we have to stop to think how lucky we are and how special this country is. given that, i guess my answer to this question is -- and i tried to write this in the last chapter of my book. it is i think not a good period for our country right now. but i think there will be a good period ahead. we have been through tough times before. and i personally have a lot of confidence. of course i can from the midwest and i guess we are optimistic
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people. thank you. >> in the back of the room. [applause] >> thank you mr. secretary. i am a u.s. department employee e and i want to get your opinion on the recent situation in benghazi. >> i think the question was about benghazi and lydia. i think first if you are going to put people into a position of danger, you ought to provide security for them. ed [applause] then if for some reason you can't, you take them out. it's not complicated. the brits were in the benghazi and they pulled their people out because they knew they didn't have the right protection. the threat level was obvious.
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they were al qaeda related terrorist groups in the neighborhood that were well armed. they knew that, so they pulled their people out. our people were not pulled out. they requested additional security because they knew that there were al qaeda related organizations in the neighborhood or well-armed. and if they did not receive the security assistance that they request it. second, the bush administration had to deal with september 11th. and in my view they put in place a set of structures that helped to protect the american people for the 12 years. and they have done a pretty good job. what we didn't do a great job in was competing in the ecological space against radical islam. the administration not only has -- this administration will not
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do what is necessary to do. but they pretend that it almost doesn't exist. they talk about fort hood as being workplace violence, which of course is simply not true. it is people who are radical and determined to oppose the concept of a nation state and to impose their views on the world. people think when you say it is a war on terror that it is a war and that it's going to be one with bullets. well it isn't. it's more like the cold war. it's going to take decades. we do not today -- we are not even competing in the eddy logical space as we did against communism. and it's because people do not want to be seen as against religion. some people are not against a religion that there is anything that is obvious in our country is that we are tolerant of all of the religions. and yet, there is a reluctance
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to name the inning. you can't win if you are not willing to do that. i -- [applause] on my website i had a meeting with the combatant commanders back in 2003. i got back to the office and i was concerned and i gerdemann know and it is on rumsfeld dhaka. i said basically we don't have the metrics to know if we are winning or losing the war montara. we have a pretty good idea the number of people that are being killed or captured. but we don't know the number of people that are being recruited. we don't know the number of people that are being trained in them pravachol madrassas and pakistan funded from the people all across that part of the world. we don't know the amount of
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money that is being contributed to train terrorists and to teach people how to strap on a suicide vests and kill people. the purpose of terror isn't to kill terrorism, it isn't to kill people, it is to terrorize them, to alter their behavior. you can't defend against terror because they can attack any time and any place using any technique and you can't defend every place every day every moment it is physically impossible. the only thing you can do is to go after them where they are come up pressure on them, make everything they do more difficult. harder to raise money come harder to talk on the phone, to move between countries come to find a country that will be hospitable to them. and above all the harder for them to recruit and fill in the training of additional her breasts. it isn't that complicated. it's hard. and it will take decades --
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don't get me wrong. it's a very strong strain of radicalism. but it is doable. just as is dealing with a communist threat was again brought with bullets, but by competing against their ideas. so, i will take the next question. i'm looking for 1i don't have to answer. [laughter] >> this is probably -- >> i stand by what i meant to say. [laughter] >> i don't see a thing around here likes of where they are people who have the microphone? someone you love me. 12:00? good for you. you must have been in the navy. >> i wanted to know what you thought of a democratic president who's been compared to the two major republican presidents as abraham lincoln the next one now --
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>> you have to speak up will get better for me. >> i said -- >> i don't understand a word. >> wanted to ask you about a democratic president who has been compared to two major republican presidents. one entering as abraham lincoln's successor, and now the politicians -- >> i can't follow the question to. what is the word you are using? entry? >> what i am saying is what do you think of a democratic president who has been compared to two major republican presidents? first, when entered he was compared to abraham lincoln. now he compares to the nixon
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politician. >> i think i get it. [laughter] [applause] >> mr. secretary, what we are going to do next is we are live streaming this program globally over youtube, and we've taken questions over the last few days. we are going to put one up and i'm going to read it to you because you can't see it. the question is what lessons or practices can politicians and government leaders learned from the private sector? this is from brian wilson of
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tolino. >> the first thing that popped into my mind is what he said that the trouble with socialism is that eventually you ron elbe of other people's money -- you run out of other people's money. in business you are using your money and in the government using other people's money and there is a big difference between how people handle their money and other people's money. it's true. any way you look we all became a little differently because it is other people's money when it is their own. in the pentagon it broke my heart when i turned my head for a minute and see fancy expensive
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wood paneling going up in one of hall's. and i would say we wouldn't do that if we were a corporation. the advantage of a corporation or of a company or a business is that they can go broke. and that is a good thing. it is badly managed, walk down any retail street in america. go back a year from then, 10% mabey would be different. one is gonna pivoted someone else took its place. the dead leaves by the end of the new ones grow. in the government they don't. they go on and on and on it. and trying to find some techniques that you can use to get people and government to manage money like they manage their own money instead of how we manage other people's money, it is a difficult thing. the only way that you can do it is for people to be vigilant, for people to understand that
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the federal government ought to be the very last resort you start with individuals and if they need help, by golly you look at the charitable and nonprofit organizations. look at the local government. the closest people feel they have some strength and can talk to the people and make them pick up the phone and called them a year and say by golly i need help on this. if the local can't do it, then the state only has a last resort it seems to me do you go to the federal government p. getty and only if we have people who feel that way and recognize that. this is such an amazing generous country in the face of the refuting the of the things voluntary organizations do and the assistance they provide people not just in our country but all over the world. and tom curtis our congressman
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from missouri who was kind of a mentor of mine he used as a public money drives out private money. if they see the government, federal state or local cooking over an area, people don't want to help in that area. first for taxes and then separately. so they back off. and it's true that is a truth that is in the book. another one, when we start talking about the president's the first thing that can to mind was harry truman who did a pretty darn good job and after people figured out all that he had done. he went out of the white house way down. people talk today about fact that when he was president my goodness, think of the things that took place. we had the department of defense, the cia, the national security council, the u.s. aid
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and any number of things happened. nato debate about one of his rule was if you want a friend in washington, get a dog appearing at and the rumsfeld corollary was get a box docksen. >> mr. rumsfeld -- >> there you are. >> since we are in the nixon center and he made the opening to china, what do you think our prospects are for continuing a good relationship with china? >> i think it's possible. china is a big country, it's an important country. china has trouble with its neighbor, india. it has trouble with its neighbor of vietnam, border trouble. it has trouble with mongolia and tibet.
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it's been the lot of mischief in the south china sea and it's causing difficulties for the south koreans and taiwanese and the japanese and other that have been operating in that part of the world. they are investing in double digits in their defense capabilities developing a blue water navy and they are going to have a growing presence. could be wrong. the expert is henry kissinger, not donald rumsfeld. but as i look at it, it seems to me there is a tension between a growing economy, which means there will be a lot of people living around the country with computers, sells phones come all this electronic stuff, probably facebook and trotter and all that stuff you younger folks understand so well. and that is entirely compatible with a dictatorial communist
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political system. where will the giving come from? if they try to repress all of the activity that is inevitably going to go on if they allow the cell phones and computers and all that. if they try to repress it, their economy will flow down, i think. and if they don't, the economic side of the economy will do well but i think that will probably cause pressure on the political system. i don't know what that means quite but i think there will probably have to be changes in their political system and how it functions and operates. but i guess time will tell. one of the chinese proverbs that i have always kind of music over is sometimes you have to kill a
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chicken to frighten the monkeys. and they do that. they do something -- they invaded part of india not long ago where they captured some fishermen in the islands to fight the monkeys and us and everybody else. but they are measured and they take a long view. i remembered reading that they had a defense minister that fled the country to go to the soviet union at a certain moment. he must not have been doing well and his plane was shot down, and
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he was killed and a messenger came in and told him that his defense minister had just been killed in a plane crash and his comment was rain will fall and widows will remarry. do you get a sense of -- they don't spook easily. but i personally think today -- when i was running an electronics company we had i think 5,000 employees in taiwan. and today the interaction between taiwan and the coast of china is just expensive. planes are flying back and forth, people are working. three-quarters of those are chinese and they are being led by the taiwanese business managers. what's happening?
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what's happening is the chance of anything -- if there were to be a conflict between taiwan and the people's republic of taiwan i think that it would be the most colossal am i am diplomatic failure of modern times. i don't think there will be during it and what does that mean. india was going to end up i think being bigger. china has real problems and china still got a lot of government corporations, businesses that are enormous, way over populated have to be privatized at some point which means at some point you will have enormous numbers of people out of work and that have to put security forces in to put down in the demonstrations and the criticism and obligation that they are going to face. and i should add the one policy is mindless. it means that they are not accepting female babies.
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they are red end up with millions, tens of millions of men without women and the population is a demographic of being ordered. it's to navigate through some bumpy times. some people were running around saying the solution in the south china sea is still law of the sea treaty. and of course of those countries are assigned the wall of the treaty and china keeps doing whatever it wants. and it doesn't do any good at all. i remember when president ronald reagan sent me over to meet some world leaders and talk them into opposing of the law of the sea treaty, i went to see mr. --
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mrs. thatcher and i explained what i thought were the key elements. she said well mr. ambassador, that sounds to me like the international position of two-thirds of the earth's surface. and you know what i think of the nationalization. you can tell president ronald reagan the plane with him today and that is not solving the problems. >> of the young lady in the front row, sir. as i read your last book and i couldn't help but wonder as i was sitting here thinking about all the tough bosses that you have had when you set out to do this book tour what did mrs. rumsfeld say? [laughter] >> mrs. rumsfeld, whose name is joyce and i met when we were 14 in high school -- we have been
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married since 1954. and if it were a little earlier in the evening. i would tell you how many years that has been. [laughter] but i don't want to guess and be wrong. what she says to me when i go on a book tour is avoid being infatuated with or resentful of the press. they have their job and you have yours and it's pretty good advice when you are dealing with the press. i take that advice about half the time. [laughter] [applause] >> you have been met so many different levels of the government including the secretary of defense. when he for their you knew the inner workings of how the government works. in regards to benghazi what is
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the timeline, should the president had known what is going on and if not, is he just saying that he doesn't know. [laughter] >> it seems to me that if people are being killed, what gets people in the office, talks to them and says i want the ground truth. what's happened, how did it happen, what can we do to save lives and how we get the system that is obviously broken fixed? instead, he went to a campaign event in las vegas.
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the thing that political leaders have, the currency they have, we don't lead by command in our country. we believe by consent. we have to be persuasive and people have to trust. it to the extent that you allow that to be eroded, you are weakened and the country is weekend. it seems to me that when president obama went to the united nations after everyone knew that it was an al qaeda related attack, that they were very well armed and organized and contended that there was a youtube video that sparked the spontaneous demonstration, this was days later that he went to the u.n. and said that, and mrs. clinton went to the families of those that were killed and said to them we are going to find the person that did the youtube video and it didn't have anything to do with it. admittedly there was a political
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campaign and there is no question the people that were running in the campaign want to win, and there is also no question that when you have a narrative out there that al qaeda is over, we killed osama bin laden, it is uncomfortable for there to be terrorist attacks. but you know, you can't pray a lot. the truth is the truth. you need to get the truth to the extent even if you are well intentioned you say things that turn out to be not true. goodness knows we've all done that. we say something and then find out later that it wasn't quite that way. you need to fix it. as a navy pilot when your airplane is lost, the handbook says klein, conserve and confess. get altitude, take a deep breath and say that you are lost and get help. by golly, that is not bad advice for people in government.
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we all get lost sometimes. you need to step back and get people in there and say look this isn't right. we've got to get it fixed. one big problem for the white house is really tough. the pressure in that place is an enormous. two big problems is like ten and three is a perfect storm. they've got tough jobs. let there be no doubt about it. and the things they ought to have in the front of their mind is they've got to preserve the trust of the american people and the only way that you do that is by giving out the truth coming getting the ground truth and saying with the truth is even if it is unpleasant. >> mr. secretary, we are going to do two more. the next one we will take from our live stream youtube audience. the question is what was your favorite part about working in
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the white house? this comes from charlotte north carolina. >> my favorite thing working in the white house was going home at night to degette [applause] it's a pressure cooker. that is a tough place to work. as george shultz said the days are long and the years are short >> let's have the next question. >> you're next question is right over there. >> good evening mr. secretary. i applaud your leadership and thank you for your service to the country to the eye and a recent law school graduate. and i know like many of us the jobs forecast this isn't well enough in our economy and i'm wondering if you think the road for this generation of professionals is harder than the one that those have after the
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aftermath of the implementation of lbj's great society. i know that you have had a lot of great society with a lot. >> congratulations of graduating from law school. i dropped out. [laughter] >> it is a true story. i went a year and a half i have a wife and child and i went back to how you to manage a campaign and decided to go back to illinois and run for congress. do you know how many lawyers there are in the department of defense? 10,000. is that breathtaking? we have such a litigious society that everyone has to get full year that every lawyer down the chain of command. you know your question is an important one.
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i am as i say from the midwest i am an optimist and i think it is tough and there is a wonderful editorial in well wall street journal -- mulken editorial but a book review on a book that bill bennett wrote about is college worth it, which talks with the cost of going to law school or college and the value that the society gives to that, the enormous investment of time and money. my goodness it is enormously expensive and the debt these people have when they come out of college it is tremendous. but the short answer is for people who want to stick their head down and work hard and contribute, there is a bright future. my guess is that you will do just fine. [applause]
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>> i think i'm going to get the hook and i'm going to get the obligatory cup. [laughter] >> thank you. let us find him for being here this evening. >> this is a live look at the
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reporting of egypt, courtesy of al jazeera. .e've got a statement let's listen in. or turn a blind eye to that at the egyptian people
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to live up to its role and responsibility. the egyptian armed forces was the first to declare and is still the clearing and will always declare that it is the standing distance for the political process. itsarmed forces based on inside unless, of hills that the egyptian people is calling for help. to hold the reins of power. to discharge responsibility and the demands of the revolution. this is the message received by the egyptian army forces. including villages and towns.
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and in turn, this call was heeded by the egyptian army forces. closer to the political scene. ing terrace trust and responsibility. the egyptian army forces over the past month have exerted concerted effort, direct and indirect, that contain the subway station -- the situation within. including the president seeing -- the presidency. last, they have called for a national dialogue, yet it was rejected by the
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presidency in the last moment. many calls followed. many initiatives follow. [indiscernible] the egyptian armed forces similarly on more than one occasion presented, which contain the most imminent challenges, as the social and political level, as the patriotic indication to contain the cause of the vision, and the challenges to exit the current crisis. as we close, the command of the
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armed forces melody presidents in the residential palace in 2013, wherein presented the opinion and rejection of the armed forces of any assault of the state institution. nationale penned on reconciliation, a roadmap for the future, whereby stability are the fuel for the people. living up to their aspirations and hopes. yesterday,esident and before the party, they will
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not meet the demands of the masses of the people. it was necessary for the egyptian armed forces, based on its stability, to consult with certain political and social figures without finding any fault. the meeting parties agreed on a roadmap plan, whereby a egyptian coherence is achieved without marginalizing any individual, political party, and putting an end to the state of the vision. suspending the constitution provisionally. the chief justice of the
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constitutional court will declare before the court the early presidential election, where the justice of the court will have an interim. [indiscernible] -- during the interim, a government will be formed. having full power to run the current affairs. and committee, including all thecommittees to review supposed amendments to the constitution, which is
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provisionally suspended. the supreme constitutional court will address the draft for the palm entry connection, and prepare for the farm entry election. and draft a charter securing the freedom of -- [indiscernible -- having accepted, the egyptian army, the egyptian people, steer away from violence, which will bring about shedding theon and blood of the innocent. the armed forces warned that it will stand up firmly in


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