you did give the plus and the minuses. ultimately i sort of used the scoring that you did at the end of the book. who was -- who do you think the most effective leader was you worked with in the auto industry? >> guest: well, the most effective leader i worked for in the auto industry, i have to say, for all its worth for all the flaws, profanity, for all the down sides to him was, without question, lee. >> host: why? did you learn things from him? >> guest: well, you know, i learned a lot of good things. i hopefully didn't learn too many bad things, but lee was passionate about the company. passionate about saving this inner passion, this inner drive, of course, another hallmark of good leader. they have to be enthusiastic about the task they are embarked on and have to be able to convey that enthusiasm.