[inaudible conversations] >> it is the virtue. i am delighted you can make it easier to night. as a fellow from the american enterprise institute and host thank you for coming. of the thesis of this book "the seven deadly virtues" the classic virtues have all grown out of fashion. no greater proof of this thesis comes in the form of the book "the seven deadly
virtues" has 18 virtues under discussion that great minds may of how to live a virtuous life. of all things subsidies simplicity's simplicity. why did he use three of them? so that america goes to hell in a handbasket and found 58 percent of american people believe that america is going to "hell in a handbasket, mack those who think they're going bad but not headed to haiti's and jenrette though worse is yet to come. one of my a hero's hearer he was watching the clarence thomas confirmation hearing in his office.
at one point arlen specter specter, said the judge turns off the tv to say the end of western civilization and he tepe drag from the cigarette and said of course, is the and but that does not need you cannot live well. [laughter] so in that spirit i will turn things over to the editor of this wonderful book and perhaps if we are lucky he will explain why:wilson is on the cover of this book. thank you very much. [laughter] [applause] >> thanks jonah and also to susan for doing this book. rating is hard and not a lot of fun but i had so much fun
doing it. i will never write a real book again. when you get to do all the writing yourself and then you sit back to say look at the books that i wrote. also thinks to api for hosting tonight and also jonah and his contribution to the book. he writes on virtues as a way he writes about super heroes or cartoons or "star trek" with his sexual intensity. [laughter] so before that i will tell you about our book the lady you are quite familiar with whole series from 1993 became a national debt -- a national best seller that every parent the been the
hospital should be given a copy of this. overtures -- virtues you could talk about without being embarrassed with the world has changed a great deal since then. even the politicians are dumped out onto the internet every weekend. and people are tempted to say we lost our virtues to society. they're just different sorts some of you may remember donald sterling former owner of the clippers basketball team one of the most reviled meant in america.
because he said racist thoughts. but there is a lesson somewhere but he is condemned on television and radio and president of united states. skiddy holds a press conference and then the nba office now and remarked as he carries on an affair in public cheating on his wife of 50 years. the original scarlett letter for adultery but this is for racism. you could even say they are
puritanical. but it changes and virtues. she pointed out in one of her books to express judgment on sexual matters you cannot just say this part or that part. at the same time we have a complicated moral framework that there is a shift that one of the high points is moderation. with that of virtue that we all strive for. to look at the modern virtues freedom, of progress , a quality, authenticity
so from the public policy center from a stage hand screen and rob will defend justice and said reagan into comments or the panel? senate that a great detail rourke than the rest of the group rose say why they are full of it. so they will decide the king of the virtues and knew it really is like if it is
richard dawson playing family feud. and james i now suggest tell us what is so great about temperance? >> what i wrote about the book was simplicity. simplicity is a virtue. so not because of a anti-nation's but in excess of moderation. as a passive aggressive lutheran midwesterners to keep the progression at bay.
everything in moderation. with cheese steaks and brandies and dancing girls? you cannot say if you are accused of cannibalism and only three the trade to make my case one is moderation and speech. but i have been in temperature rating on the internet i said things i wish i did not say. once i said if i was in a room and gave back to into a hatpin and popped up with like to see it. people said it was cruel to comment on his opinion.
but still and then with they walked in to say with the civil dialogue. it is up moderation of opinion because i used to have a reputation who got everybody together on a common subject and everything we could agree on. it kept me from defending my own at the end of the evening we could say we have learned something. we agree that a rose by undemocratic means and we
would agree on something but so what? if you don't have common ground after 9/11 i've lost a number of friends and i would not concede anything to the other side. the the other side says i wanted to be destroyed to cannot say so the moderation of opinion works when you have something you can share together that is the most the moderation of action because people pray against each other all the time.
i come from a place where people are calling so that brings us to the parable. on the way out here he is right in front of it and is about the science over here and then the first thing he pushes the button and then you act like it is the ball but i mention i would agree to them. i am not a big fan. but i typed in like this and i cannot move.
moderation says there are two things. i cannot find where i am. and and is sick how about we work this out? that it is the duration of the flight. that is moderate action. so he did not do that at all. i don't think he slipped one weekend i was happy about that. [applause] >> i got the bumper sticker virtue.
so i have the virtue of fellowship that we will talk about on shuffleboard but i think it is more interesting because you practice or you are not before a bunch of people in extreme danger what will happen? they've made display hurlock courage on the battlefield or enthusiastic acts of cannibalism. and one of the things talking about fellowship today we use it to ally ourselves.
think of those that are intolerant like airport security or gluten this is what we could form of a group together about something else. and this shows once you are part of these groups the ideological rigor is required i will state my cells but thank you. [laughter] bring them into the fold. so it is clear. [laughter]
is very big in china in fact, if you go to a chinese bar they play going home to get people to leave. then they all start to leave [laughter] so people play a very important role. and he went to hong kong recently in the ticket innocent walk but he took a selfie in front of a group of democracy protesters. this anger the chinese government that declared him the infidel. so you think he has the fellowships of people that admire him in china what will he do? he broke in the unspoken rule so like in celebrity fashion i do not like democracy always taking a
walk so fault -- alicia as the dark side in dramas doing my scholarly research for the article they spent a lot of time on the justin beeper fan site again it is pretty rigorous. and that will completely fall flat after you tweets your friends right now but we debased the french ships we have followers we spend our lives of line with our friends the those are not real french ships we have anonymous handbills that we used.
but i will summon up that there are existential questions thinking of fellowship and friendship in the real world the way we played out online what is friendship? i think we should show up moderately consume alcohol and talk to each other face to face. and connect to each other in meaningful ways. and then speak to this issue with the kardashian falls in the woods and does not take a selfie does it really happen? [laughter] [applause] >> people are terrible. and you cannot get away from them?
honestly am so tired coming to these events and hearing about this. [laughter] >> key is the unofficial mascot. [laughter] but i will begin whenever i speak publicly by telling the hollywood anecdote is nobody knows if it is true or not. the to have that additional benefit to be true of few years ago the number four spot was the lowest in the on to the intellectual property for the $6 million
man. of french and a great idea of a billion dollar man and played by the majors played at the time it goes that -- of course, the federal funding had been cut and the government was on the v.a. plan. it was great to go to the network president. and he pitched in the room and it was a 30 minute pitch great story and the
president said that is great it will be fantastic. no. [laughter] but the majors was a total jerk to me. just saying that's what happens why justice is the best of a virtue because these are unique virtues. justice is something that you do to somebody else and you can do a hard. lazore it is justice.
justice is the eyes of the former hollywood assistant to be treated and insulted to become an executive with his or her former boss to pitch their wares at the people they thought like to them. and it was the former intern that was never properly thanked for those leaves of grass. [laughter] that is why justice affects virtue. it is the back alley pay booked which is why it is the best.
justice also reminds the intern to stick with it it will all be worth it. [laughter] [applause] >> in my chapter is the cover article for "national review". >> just to verify your paid twice? [laughter] >> but as you well know from "national review" that is not. [laughter] but my book chapter was integrity. it is very telling from what i can hear but my colleagues
picked their virtues first and jonathan said where is yours? and in fact, get of version of that every day. with all we have left is chastity is like showing up at the end of the day fire sale likely would it makes mad at each the fake velvet track suit i did not want to ask today's a like a scholar in good standing the wintus the enter webster looked at the list of virtues on with the pds and i found continents as the opposite of incontinent.
and the four -- for most expert on virtues is that even relate a virtue? so why pay common sport -- continents for a couple of reasons. everyone takes dogs and scotch and cigars perhaps the biggest source of joy is a knowing rob with "star trek" preferences. so actually that play is the big part in book number seven of aristotle's ethics which like most people i spend the afternoon reading very closely. and continents is defined as the ability to deny yourself
pleasurable body functions. i will make three points about this that i think our vital. [laughter] first, in this age of ebola. [laughter] the ability to control bodily fluids and discharge is perhaps never more important. [laughter] [applause] i can barely hear that. and unlike chastity or honesty continents is a multibillion-dollar industry. when you only look at the commercials in japan over the next 10 years adult diapers will outsold baby diapers. >> that depends.
[laughter] >> but to recycle the adult diaper joke that was already made. and most important the definition of conservatism but human nature has no history. way are all built from that group did timber of humanity the only thing that separates us is what we call civilization so that every team is invaded by barbarians. we call them children. so the essence of conservatism is to take them with that first virtue is continents. anybody who denies this
where there were very bad parents. [laughter] schaede ability to deny a bodily functions to inappropriate sexual gratification such as the event broadcast on c-span with the minimum requirements of civilization and aristotle says courage is the greatest virtue. instead of nonsense. as is so often jonah is right and aristotle is wrong. and without continents' the ability to keep animal desires and imposes it checked we are perhaps all
charlie sheen and otherwise. thank you very much. [applause] >> then she was worried about me having john l. [laughter] -- jonah. everyone tells the virtue of hope is down the rabbit hole of wishful thinking. it was not always so faint of the word their roots meaning of hope is expectation of things desired with the book of common prayer for their presiding minister says this
certain hope of resurrection he does not mean wouldn't it be nice? but it is out of artistic fashion for more than a century it is hard to think of a great modern novel or a play. the first line of the wasteland for instance instance, excuse me thomas did the easter bunny's get the eliot household? said great gatsby concludes to declare sewing oats against those into the pass to smack into the back no doubt when there was no
but then again in the late '70s to come along with the optimistic can-do spirit is that happy ending. every single piece of popular culture fed today sessile the collapse of everything the hunger games games, and as all predicated on the future to view the upper class to have the most technologically addicted the greatest generation to ever produce but hunger games was
easily the least exciting movie of children fighting to the death. [laughter] it is never the children you once. [laughter] >> i am of a huge fan although i don't love my daughter to find out what we're watching. we have to come up with longer and longer latin phrases she cannot understand. but the walking dead are problem solvers. it is like michael keats in with a hatchet. it is the ambulatory shrieking creature like a
knife to the eyeball again and again and again. sometimes why am i watching this? with that recent plot development to deal with a guy sitting with you in front of the pudding. but it seems the group has found themselves a sanctuary that may not be as it seems. >> any others will we are here? >> but it is also about fellowship of people who knew come together whenever desperate elements that they have. >> how do these fellowships told?
[laughter] there is not one. this is why he is so attractive. but let's get the majors. maybe that was the battle starts collecting data. but i cannot see this $6 million man? >> but this is my argument for concealed carry. in the bible it says payback is mine. meaning that you should not wait. [laughter] because if you wait is that.
and it is interesting watching him eight says she grows up and worries about everything. but will not stay at of power. but just to watch him develop. those absolutely have no imagination whatsoever. then i figure out what would go wrong but then it is just the of fearlessness but even to frame that it is smart.
she is 11 now the first or second grade at school drop off every morning to come up with another shocking piece of advice i could shout to her. i remember the head of the school i would deal don't smoke crack. again? no knife fights. [laughter] is thus we to little girl with "dora the explorer" backpack. it reminds her that i raise my kids in the 1950's but i grew up in new york i remember having piles of garbage then we would have the contest to see how
elaborate we could get. that is complete the gone from almost everything i have. i am sorely tempted to give him a bone knife and antibiotics and bandages to leave her someplace. >> i thought it was grazed my daughter is 14 and if it was like hannibal lector i would stick in the backseat. then the highway department said if the kid sits in the front with her legs like
this is the air bag those of the will send her kneecaps into her nose into her brain. so don't do that. not realizing when i grew up by sat in the front seat with us dash board that had plastic over it with an average so i was looking at a scalping device fitted my mother's lamp on the brakes it would be separated. but i never worried that we would stop suddenly my mother would do this because there were no seatbelts. [laughter] but he is not with us anymore. [laughter]
>> it is the sense of humor. there are 1 million virtues in the world today but the virtues of not realizing there are sensitivities that i live in a city, of minneapolis that a buy selected -- a bicyclist comes and says on your left. [laughter] i agree it is a good thing to do maybe not a organized principle for society but i do feel compelling. >> you have that npr voice.
>> you hear this from politicians if you do public policy that way we have to walk around not only the giant sumo suits but the reason why it has that warning that like half a dozen kids per year drown in the buckets so the logical upshot is sell a bucket with whole in them. [laughter] if you live in a society where any lot is justified to save a single life than we have to be strapped into a gurney like the power source and never moved. >> every time you looked at a warning that means
somebody did that so when your power saws says not for flossing. [laughter] somewhere someplace. [laughter] >> i think brevity is also a virtue. >> what about advisers and mentors? >> we better lawyer up we will be litigated. >> but we should have those that are not presents one is courage and also the sense of humor to say can we talk to you for a minute?
that person needs to go. >> humor is the one thing that keeps all the virtues to be a source of terror. the with your brilliant introduction justice to be the ultimate virtue then to say it is just of fears application of justice. >> if that is the case i will just stop talking. who can add anything to that? >> that is the phrase.
it keeps them in check and from taking each other too seriously. >> just like the absolutely cold-blooded mercenary behavior focused only on cash. [laughter] you never see that here. [laughter] >> can you are the reason we did the books the way we did. >> i promise we would tell you the clue was the big winner and i am a filthy liar. so also gratitude and also to susan and to all of you who are here those who did not get up on the stage because you were not funny enough for brave enough. thank you very much.
i hope you enjoy the book. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> the research shows there is an upgrading of the skills of american workers throughout the 20th-century even as it became more automated why we put in place what used to be the world's best primary education system because our industry is demanded an entirely different skill set of workers simic you looked at from computer annals but
what does it do to particular jobs? or what does it do to the mix of jobs? use a even if they were in factories the increase of productivity created bigger companies the design requirements so whole white caller workforce build up on top of this demand but the factory workers themselves needed better skills and became higher skilled. but to train in the economy of button pushers is a little simplistic. but the last time we hopped on an airplane how many of you hope to the airplane had a filling experience? [laughter] and expressed himself. it was the most boring experience of that is boring for the pilot that is good news for us. >> let me respond. there are two different ways
to look at it looked at the individual jobs or assume we will create this rich level of jobs. as you write in your own book average level is eaten away by computers and there is no sign that there will be of further increase. you talk about faith it will spring magically. but look at the reality of the situation when you introduce more sophisticated software, people begin to have more homogenized jobs and become more reliant. >> as for the pilots for 100 years the story of automation of their flight was a happy story to increase efficiency. looked at a recent years you can see that they're manual
control three minutes of the flight. but they lose situational awareness and the skills get rusty with a new kind of accident is beginning to emerge automation related accidents that is something goes wrong their skills are resting their react to the wrong way and the plane crashes. last year that faa says you need to get pilots in engaged in the flight to practice manual skills while flying. so up to a point then it now shows us you can take too much responsibility were too much skill away from a person were to much control over a then you get the opposite effect. and actually to respect the skill of pilots to give them a little more control and responsibility i would predict safer flying a and
his book i saw in the form quite a while ago when he was thinking about doing this and i have to confess that in the back of my head even just a few months ago i thought a book on the middle east and iraq and counter insurgency and terrorism and all of this, how could this possibly be relevant for the day that but he has impeccable
timing because the lesson is that he has drawn have really direct applicability to all of the questions the country has been wrestling with today. the book draws on his extraordinary accomplishments as one of america's finest scholars. he was a 1988 graduate of west point and went on to oxford where it was later published as a learning to eat soup with a knife. he served as an army commander in the first gulf war and returned with the infantry division after the invasion. he worked at the pentagon for deputy secretary paul wolfowitz and general david petraeus with whom he wrote the counterinsurgency field manual. and in the later time in the world of think tanks and in the
intellectual arena he became the key architect of the counterinsurgency doctrine and that was put to such dramatic use in the search in iraq. knight fights as we will hear tonight of his account of how difficult the approach and the struggle was to embrace the counterinsurgency doctrine in the military within the department of defense bureaucracy and the national security apparatus she would draw out some of these lessons and look at the applicability to today we have the host of the national public radio morning edition. steve has reported and written on an array of security issues from locations from cairo, baghdad. he's the author of instant city life and death and is well-known
for his unique way of drawing out the deep meaning in fast breaking news involving the conversation job will be signing copies of his book if he hasn't signed your copy already booked before he does please allow me to turn the microphone over to steve and john. [applause] thank you it is an honor to be here and share the stage with john and it was great to hear about his career. i was thinking about some of the aspects you have been to prestigious universities and served in the u.s. army which makes you an expert and a good idea march institutions that have trouble changing. [laughter] >> i now run a school and if you think it's hard to changing an army tried changing a school. >> as we heard john served in
iraq and part of the struggle that ended in 2011 when all u.s. troops left iraq, thank god we will never have to fight there again. i i realize that it's dark humor but you go with the humor to paraphrase defense secretary you fight a war with whatever humor you have and that is what we have at the moment. [laughter] >> john went on to serve as the headmaster of the school. it's interesting he was an expert in counterinsurgency and someone concluded that that was good preparation for watching after several hundred boys. >> thousand and four of her who ever has been a parent of a teenage boy knows they are one of the supervised hour away from chaos. is that i want to do another piece of business before we get down to the questions and i want to mention as we all do jon has
a mother and he told his mother he was going and she didn't physically restrain him. >> she's not very big. >> would what you stand for just a moment please? [applause] >> thank you for what you done. you write in the book that we are likely going to be in an age of unsatisfying war. what do you mean and why do you think that? >> the war since the storm was the genesis of the book of the thinking about warfare i came of age when the cold war was still
hot and there was a gap when the soviet union was still a threat and the first time the berlin wall came down and peace broke out all over the world and saddam hussein invaded iraq and peace had not quite broken out and i participated in desert storm which may be the last of the great battles. it was an unsettling and dan and invigorating experience to be young and participate in that kind of a war but it also seemed to me between the end to soviet union and the very rapid demise of the fourth-largest army in the world at the hands of the american military it seemed to me to indicate a watershed in the history of the conflict. that is no one in their right mind would take on the united states again in the conventional combat given what they had just
seen. ivy league to the future enemy would look at how the vietnamese could the viet cong had taken this on and how the iraqi army had attempted to challenge the american military might and so i started thinking about the asymmetrical warfare and out enemies who would avoid the strengths and attack the weaknesses would use their cultural skills and language knowledge, the tribal basis of society come improvised webcams to defeat the greatest military machine that the world has ever known. the bad news is i was right and the war i fought after desert storm or those kind. and i think that the world has seen the lesson very clearly that you can in fact attack america's most bold trouble point strategically the national
will to continue the fight by fighting asymmetric war so i believe that there is every indication that peace will continue. they continue today. steve already mentioned in iraq but david has a piece in the atlantic monthly on the ongoing war in afghanistan and he hopes the lesson's and mistakes we made at the end of the war are not repeated in afghanistan. and that we do not again as it is currently u.s. national policy pull all of the troops out of afghanistan at the end of 2017 because the television is waiting to come back and waiting for that opportunity and if we have come and i will stop here if there is a guiding principle at the national security policy in the wake of september 11 11 that is not to yield the territory to terrorists in which in which they can conduct against the united states and
our allies. we feel that in iraq right now and we are fighting back against it and i hope that we do not make this a the same mistake in afghanistan. >> you refer to the troops and if it have to be done or did not have to be done but you felt it shouldn't be done. is that the only mistake? >> that was the biggest mistake at the end. the single biggest mistake in the foreign-policy september 11 is the invasion. i don't don't be read on the delete on the countrywide information. i think that the people putting the case together or were scared and felt they had missed something and they were putting together a worst-case scenario but there was no reason that the deterrence couldn't continue to work against saddam hussein even if he had one as a mass distraction. and the program was the worst
mistake was the invasion of iraq in 2003. if we planned to topple the government we should have had a plan for what to do when we accomplished that objective. going the troops out at the end of 2011 was in this room as my first conference as president in 2009 when we wrote a paper titled after the fire but argued that the united states needed to maintain a long-term security presence in iraq of some 20 or 25,000 to add a spine to the political leverage against the government and the sectarian as some and that's paper looks really good fight years later.
>> the most amazing thing is that as part of the reason to keep them in iraq is to provide the political leverage against the iraq he government. american troops are not just a security guarantee. they come with political leverage. the government particularly under threat want the resources that come with american soldiers. access to intelligence, access to air power, logistics support, technical expertise but also the attention of the u.s. government and they don't want to lose those resources so the presence of 20,000 americans in iraq in 2012, 2012 until now would have pushed maliki a way, the protester away from his worst sectarian influences general david petraeus, ryan crocker in the presence of the troops to do
just that when we had 150,000 troops in iraq we would have less leverage and we would have had infinitely more than we ended up having and a big part of the reason in iraq has been the sectarianism that passed two and a half years and the fact that they no longer trust the baghdad government. >> let me ask about the current war that you were discussing. we are being warned there are no quick options, no dramatic change in the situation. it could take a long time. does it have doesn't have to be an unsatisfying war? we shouldn't be planning for it as poorly as we are right now. the president -- the other mistake was the invasion of iraq
in 2003, smaller but pulling all the troops out of the end of 2011. the next mistake was not arming the rebels in the summer of 2012. that is a tougher call. they just released a report indicating correctly that the rebel groups had failed and in the absence they do not succeed in overthrowing the government. so i am not throwing as bright as a red line not arming the syrian rebels, but those errors got the story are today. the one we are making now in the threat presented by isis not just a serious but the broad middle east and ultimately the united states so he has correctly put out a goal for not
just the u.s. military and diplomatic service in the foreign-policy but defeating isis. he's absolutely correct. he's not providing the means required to accomplish that objective and so on last the president steps back from the no boots on the ground promise and if the combat advisers in the battalions and brigades they are not going to be able to push isis back in any kind of an unreasonable timeframe. there is urgency because it is within the artillery range right now in the national airport to read as the general said over the weekend, we cannot afford to give up their pork. we need that airport. so there is urgency to this. there is a basic and means
dispatch that you don't have to work here to appreciate. >> is a small lack of resources or huge. wouldn't make a difference as a retired military officer was suggesting the other day that even a small number of troops would make a difference because we are not the most competent enemy or is it actually very large presence that would have to be talked about? >> they are not very different from the number that we wrote about five years ago and talked about on the stage 20 to 25,000. but we currently have about 1600 troops to times that number would increase the performance by two or three times and as you noted the enemy that they are facing is not particularly skilled or well-equipped and is at the end of a long supply lines with the presence of those
advisers in the relatively short period of them is to turn this around and push back to that used to what used to be the border between c-reactive iraq don't want to put a fine point but it sounds like you were frustrated by the way that things were going. >> i have no doubt that i reflect a widespread. on the serving officers and those that fought for the ground in iraq i was stationed in a landmark province in a town just in a lovely little town between the slightly larger towns of romani the provincial capital where the fighting is going on right now in falluja also a lovely town of which you may have heard. so it is a pretty nice neighborhood. we thought enormously hard for
every square meter of the ground, we fought against evil we couldn't see an enemy as we have not been trained to identify and we took very heavy losses while we were doing that. it would have taken very little to have kept that ground for the iraqi government that the united of the united states, the american taxpayer that our children, because we did this on the credit card, are going to pay for the rest of their lives. we put well over a trillion dollars, 5,000 american lives from over 30,000 wounded into building that government in iraq. once you have made that investment, a very small investment means you don't have to go back and fight for that again. and i'm absolutely confident that my friends and people that i know will fight for their ground again and saw them a guy doing that and it didn't need to happen. [applause]
>> to what extent does this information work? >> in the writing of the field manual that we do heavily on the work of the general and he designed a diagram to describe the kind of counterinsurgency campaign he was fighting in baghdad when he had the command of the first calvary division in baghdad in the 2004, 2005 timeframe and i reprinted the diagram in the book because it is so powerful. and the diagram describes the six lines of operations in the counterinsurgency campaign, combat operations you can identify certainly, building the host nation security forces forces them existing in economic development and good governance, essential services to the population, but the biggest error a that encompasses all the
others is information operations. ultimately you are fighting for the population and the beliefs of the population at but the future is brighter by standing against the government. so where it failed late and again in iraq is after we withdrew the troops in 2011 when the maliki government neglected and ignored and persecuted the population of the country initiative he no surprise to anyone given the actions of the government over the past several years that conducted a very clear information operation against itself, against the support of the population for the government that isis was able to cut through like a hot knife and butter and they felt
they would be better off than they were with their own government. >> they certainly have got a lot of information and it has been suggested that the beheadings of americans by isis were in some ways a kind of weakness and they couldn't strike out in any more of an effective way but there was a powerful information being sent. >> we should be concerned. isis was thrown out for being violent. isis is the heart ticket and at the start up and the entrepreneurial organization in the world right now attracting from all over the world. they are flocking to the banner in extraordinary campaigns and the single most worrying part of
that for homeland security operators is that an awful one of those people have western passports and it will be difficult to find and catch so in some ways what they are doing is re-creating what the afghan mujahedin created in the 1980s in the war against the soviet union in the invasion of afghanistan that created jihad central. the information campaign is better than ours. >> you recounted famous counterinsurgency manual and your note there should have been a chapter on the information operations but there wasn't a chapter. it's mentioned that it's not highlighted as much as you would like and that makes me wonder how you think the united states is doing right now. >> the single biggest flaw of
the u.s. government as a whole in the last 15 years against the radical islamists has been the failure to create effective information operation organizations and conduct effective operations. during the cold war which was primarily an economic war secondary and military we had the u.s. information agency which did very good work in the information operations campaign. at the end of the cold war we disbanded the agency and we have not stood up and re-created in the war that is primarily a war of information and ideas. and so, that is the single biggest government failing. they have a small degree of responsibility for that. it's been a failure to properly focus on building the capability
to train and advise the military forces which as the current events in iraq demonstrate your the most useful instrument of military power. >> help me out with that. they are building up an iraqi army and left alone it would imply the money was wasted. >> much of the economic development was wasted and much of the money that we spend sending american troops trained for counterinsurgency is money that was wasted and a lot of the actions including my own unit exacerbated the insurgency. so on the macro scale that
perhaps $2 trillion we spent much of it was wasted. the money spent on out of the united states to depart iraq in 2011 that was recently statehood and democratic and that the the president of the united states and vice president of the united states proclaimed as an american success story would seem so very long ago but they failed to do was having made that enormous investment, made the continuing investment in a life insurance policy to rein in the sectarian influences of the iraqi government and continue to help.
after the second world war we still of the troops in korea. we've lost that one and we still have the troops in bosnia. when the issue is important enough for the united states to send the forces and have them leave on the territory it's important enough for the united states to continue to leave them there to keep it pointed in the right direction. it's what the united states has to do. apostolate apostolate want to ask another question and go to the audience.
it has to do with an anecdote that others know but i did not know. in 2004, the military contractors were captured in falluja. they were horribly mangled. the question was how the u.s. military should respond. you write that the commander in the area at the time wanted to go in a particular way but was told to go in another way. what happened? >> probably the greatest fighting the general was in the first marine division and he made a model of the first marine division no better friend, no worse enemy first do no harm. so when you have a marine to starve that understands that you can do damage while conducting
military operations and that can be counterproductive, you have a remarkable man which he is. there is a reason of medicine at petraeus worked together on the counterinsurgency field manual. it's at the same time involved on the same grounds that doesn't mean it doesn't mean that they talk to each other about how to do it. it's pretty good work. >> with madison wanted to do was practice counterinsurgency and gather intelligence on who the individuals were, who had killed those contractors and then he wanted to bring those people to justice. he was told that was not an option and to assault falluja with everything the marine corps had. the decision did the envy of the bubble, something that i couldn't believe had been done.
it united all of iraq behind a single idea. kill every american here. and so they united against us during falluja and in early 2004 april of 2004 the bridges were dropped and we came as close as we ever came to losing the war in iraq in 2004 as a result of the decision and we had to pull back appropriately. it was encapsulated by the by that but there were people that knew how to do this differently but we couldn't find a way to get their voices heard. >> you have been talking about
using too much force. >> the first six years of the obama administration underlines the military force and the good news is the bush administration collected in its final years and the best individual signal was the hiring of bob gates. i'm extremely hopeful as we spend lots of time talking about iraq we do what is required to defeat and said that we do not have to fight the afghan war in my lifetime. >> let me invite your questions on that note and i will ask you when i call on you if you would stand and say your name so we can get to know each other a little bit i'm going to start in
the back i see a hand they are. i don't see the body attached to it. >> you have the battle of the ideas and i'm wondering in terms of the cultural lack of understanding of the political establishment as an example of the need to get the status of forces agreement in iraq where publicly it was we don't want one, it's not domestically palatable for the iraqis to say they want americans to stay. however those in the know wants one count is that dynamic play out in the future in iraq and in afghanistan? >> the question is about the status of forces agreement which is one of the sticking points in the negotiations about withdrawing troops in 2011.
the americans insisted on a parliamentary agreement rather than just a signature from the prime minister. i would ask how easy it is to get through congress as we contemplate what it is we are asking the iraqi people to do having had their government overthrown and occupied by a very large and very violent force that improved over time certainly in the early years was brutal asking the representatives to sign up and ask for the force to stay. they probably could have found a way to get this done if we wanted to.
the afghan people very much want american forces to stay in the war that isn't talked about as much as it should be is enormously difficult. the women of the women of afghanistan have done remarkably well and they want to force us to stay and afghan politicians will say very publicly and not not just that they want american forces but that it would be irresponsible for the united states to do otherwise. >> okay. other questions. the folks at c-span wished to hear your words. and remember to introduce your self.
>> you mentioned mentioned that efficiencies and failures mentioned by the united states. what are the responsibility of the allies and the iraq army? >> early in my career i studied nato. i studied at west point on the corner of the major david petraeus when he was working for the general at the headquarters in europe so i have some sense of nato and how it works but our partners are not meeting the requirements they have agreed upon in terms of the share of domestic products they are willing to invest in a national security issues. very close allies like britain the country that i love dearly and i spent the happiest years
in my life is of my life is essentially taking itself off the table as a great power essentially unable to present to project power internationally as a result of the choices that it's been economically. we are willing to follow to lead if we have a very limited capability to do so in most cases. the counter example )-right-paren the current crisis is turkey that has enormous capability to intervene but for political reasons of its own isn't willing to do so. the iraqi army has lost -- it is easy to point out the mistake of the allies they've paid an
enormous cost in blood and the stories and provide a citrus fighting without food, without water, without ammunition and most important that other commanders in most cases commanders who had been appointed by the minister directly. they were the wrong effect and he was more afraid of the coup and he was a possible invasion and he's paying the price for that now. i've seen courage from them they've been fighting for a long time with american air power they could achieve great things. >> radio repairs are. go ahead. >> know it's good.
>> quick question. number one, you see the parallels to what is in iraq now and the spanish-american war that started with a splendid war in the last decade of the century and we ended up with a country called the philippines and what did we do with it and we ended up in about a ten year insurgency against the muslim rebels. kind of an unexpected effect of the victorious war so that the first. there is another book written by the british commander of the arab region and jordan after they gained their independence. and i think that it is in his book he wrote from living with the arabs and commanding that the country is easy to conquer and impossible to occupy. are there any that we have written since the 1950s? >> is a fellow military historian, i think that there is
more continuity than discontinuity in history. i like the analogy to the spanish-american war and the successful counterinsurgency campaign that followed. it was almost almost inarguable you have to go back to the philippines at the turn of the last century before as the best extent with the army led counterinsurgency was successful i would argue from 2007 to 2011. so i think that there are interesting and historical parallels. they had a wonderful collection that compiled case studies and found the practice of struggle.
it's much more likely to be relevant. the problem of holding the country is enormously difficult by favorite insurgent was able to accomplish great things as an insurgent because the middle eastern countries are so hard to hold. my hope is that isis is about to find that out. i don't think it would be that hard to push back. our friends at the center for strategic and budgetary assessments released a study comparing the current air war over iraq and serbia over iraq and syria over serbia and the average number of dalia attacks in this war is seven. the average dalia number over serbia was 120.
so, we literally have not yet begun to fight. i hope we start soon. >> writes here on the island of blue shirt. >> doug brooks from internationals from international study operations association. my question is about libya which is another splendid war that was very successful initially. is this one of those times that maybe we are not using enough military power or what would you say that we should be doing to advance at this point? >> libya was an example of a word that i think the united states should not have involved itself in and in the last chapter of the book, i make an argument for a strong capability to conduct stability operations and counterinsurgency. ibb that is is antisocial tool. the u.s. government as a whole, not just the u.s. military but that the government needs to have. i think it is a tool that should be used very rarely and i
propose very strict rules governing american intervention. i do not believe that the humanitarian crisis has risen to the level of genocide and i do not believe that rebellion in libya really affected america's vital national and tristan so i just disapprove of the decision to intervene in libya. but in particular, i disapprove of intervening in libya without having any plan for what followed. so, saint augustine taught us that the purpose of the war is to build a better piece. don't fight the war if you don't have a plan to build a better piece that follows. and if you don't understand that it's a generational task and it's going to require american boots on the ground for a generation. sometimes it is worth it if you
are brutally attacked afghanistan by al qaeda and the telegram of hand them over then you have a responsibility i think to overthrow the television and then having overthrown it, the responsibility to create a better country that will never again harbored international terrorists. but that is the only war of those in the 21st century that they believe was necessary i believe was necessary until now in his third war in iraq. how about the gentleman that is standing there. >> thanks for being here. i am the marina for low this year -- marine fellow. i'm wondering your thoughts on
the army and the marine corps going forward for the long-term to train and educate our forces so that we are not writing the next field manual in the conflict and if you do think that there are changes that should have been, but those would be. let me say one good thing before i see another bad thing the marine corps has been something interesting. it's requiring every marine, not just every marine officer but every marine to be assigned a foreign language into work on that language throughout the career. i believe they provide proficiency to get certificates on that i think that is an enormously wise investment and i wish the army would do that. my army is making a very good decision. i was able to get my phd at oxford because the department of social sciences and creation for
the teaching assignment. the army has created a number of strategic for those who's studied the subject by counterinsurgency at a number of great schools and my friends are engaged in those programs i just wrote a letter of recommendation over the weekend for the former military fellow whose now engaged in that process. so, we are making some good investments relatively inexpensive long-term and high return investment. that is the good news. the bad news is the danger and the actual damage that's being done by the sequestration to the forces in the united states. and sequestration was intentionally designed to be so stupid that no member of congress would ever allow it to happen. they would make the tough calls about the taxes and spending and they would be forced to buy this
gun they held against their own hands. unfortunately, congress is that dumb and they pulled the trigger and the people that have been hurt by the sequestration are largely the department of defense because the biggest share of the budget takes the biggest share of the cuts. but we are cutting the ground forces to a level that i believe is dangerous giving the world that we are living in and given the world i think we are likely to be living in for the foreseeable future. >> you write in a memoir the importance of the speakers that you serve within iran. why don't you explain it to people that haven't been in in that situation what difference does it make? >> you are operating not just the wind but deaf and dumb in a roomful of people who are trying to kill you and who are occasionally succeeding and so the failures in the united states to properly harness one of the greatest strengths in the nation and i'm going to quote a
classic strategic thought bill murray in stripes some of you will remember we are americans. our ancestors were kicked out of every decent country in the world. so, america is this country with linguists to the people that understand the cultures and the places that we are in and we haven't adequately harnessed that resource and every platoon operating in the counterinsurgency campaign needs to interpreters full-time living with them and i have advanced half a dozen for the task force of 700 people and they were by far the most precious resource. we have not taken a problem seriously enough.
we got better at it over time and this is one of them i thought that the contents of energy into the system to improve the number of the quality and the capability of the turks especially the ones with the citizens. we should be teaching everybody that works in the foreign-policy a foreign language. it doesn't really matter which one even. but they are able to understand that there is something different in the way the united states operates and we should be taking advantage of the speakers and make it and also change immigration policy and make it easier to keep the foreign language speakers that come to the shore to give early those that are math science and engineering degrees. [applause] >> ten minutes.
we can take a couple questions. super. right here. go ahead. >> where are the microphone throwing skills. >> you may have seen "the new york times" report earlier this week saying president obama instructed the cia to do a historical case study to see when the u.s. reported to them and if them and if that had been successful over time. the conclusion allegedly is that no deaths had been a successful practice with a marginal increase in success if there were some boots and advisers on the ground. this apparently was influential in informing president obama's reluctance to support this theory in opposition. it is your reaction to the cia report and do you think they got the history wrong do you have a different reading?
>> we ran cms 2.0 together and it's wonderful to have so many veterans alumni here in the room. thank you for your service to the decision on the straight and narrow. the report i think was correct precautionary. the question is whether a solid was bad enough that it was in the vital national interest to attempt to overthrow him and we had ivy league a window of opportunity in the summer of 12 when the professionals i respect very highly david petraeus into the end director of intelligence
was as good as a national security team as any party as we have ever had except for brent scowcroft himself. a phenomenal team who made the assessment and these are high-risk operations. they do not succeed. the more separately put behind them the more likely they are to succeed and so it is a question i get -- again and how are we willing to put if it is over is on the ground of the cia could but have a degree of the possibility that soldiers do not. so i do not disagree that this was a high-risk option. i did it be that it the beef that it was a risk worth taking at the time and i continue to believe that had we done so in
particular while maintaining a much more capable presence on the iraqi side of the border that we wouldn't be in the mess we are in today. but these are hard choices as some of the memoir is just sad. and i said earlier this isn't as clear a case for me by any means as was the decision to pull the american troops out at the end of 2011. i'm very comfortable saying it was a mistake. this one -- >> setting aside the convention there is a public study by a couple of academics looking at a century of uprisings around peaceful uprisings far more successful than the violent uprisings and even a violent uprisings often lead to chaos. the odds would be very long. >> i think that is accurate and i also think it is an important subject to be studying because
for many reasons we are likely to see far more uprisings over the next 50 years than we have over the last decade. so the uprisings in the so-called arab spring are engendered in part by the system by the invasion of iraq and the subsequent war but also the power of information technology to allow people to peacefully or not peacefully assemble against the government and they provide an ability for people to understand more easily held that their governments are. and so i predict as the climate change continues and as the population pressure continues to increase as the resource scarcity continues to rear its ugly head over the next 30, 40, 50 years, we are going to continue to see uprisings. some will succeed and some will
fail and in some cases we will want them to succeed as against other cases we will want them to fail so it is incredibly important that we learn the lessons of the last decade of the war that we not intentionally burned the books about the counterinsurgency. >> and that we make more careful choices about when it is in america's interest to support or not to support these revolutions. >> i jokingly asked at the beginning the fact you have counterinsurgency training and then went off and ran a school this may sound like a joking question and perhaps it is and perhaps it is not. has running the school taught you anything more than you knew before about counterinsurgency?
>> a great question. [laughter] i had the privilege from very small ones, junior and kindergarten up to monsters. one of my lineman is 308 pounds and likely to go to harvard. he can do the math and so can harvard. they have a wonderful brotherhood and they call it that. composed of the long bond that they formed over literally 13 years it becomes the most important in their lives. that brotherhood or that code can be powerful words can be
used for various purposes and it will suppress no one but as a parent of a teenage boy to hear. and so one of the things that i am working with we have a walk block of the virtues that we aspire to and last year it was respect and encourage and i've asked them to have the courage to speak up even if it means reporting one of your routers and if that brother is doing something that is likely to hurt himself or others and the business of raising children in the world we live today it is enormously difficult and i think that it's far harder to grow up in the world then we all grew up in so i have respect for the challenges they face and i'm
hopeful that i can use my understanding of the triple relationships and counterintelligence to help them use the superpower for good. >> is often rushed forward in a moment but before we do there is a bracelet on your wrist. some people may have noticed that. do you want to explain what it is? >> i do. i had the privilege to serve in la bar iraq was a remarkable group of young men. it's the all volunteer military and we couldn't have done it the last 15 years without them, but it is mostly the names and all of them that filtering the counterinsurgency campaign that i was a part of an lmr in 2003
and 2004. of those young men died doing what their country asked them to do. it was well what we were asking them to do that they made her road efforts to do what they be beefed the nation wanted them to do and on occasions like this i wear this to remind me of them and feel fortunate to be able to be a voice for them and to remind people composed like you national security folks to remember those men that paid the price is for the mistakes the government makes and to remember to take care of as the greatest president said of the widow and the orphan and of those who come back with invisible wounds as we
"after words" as guest host sally the founding editor of the "washington post" blog. this week religion writer karen armstrong and her latest book "fields of blood." she argues the formation of every religion involved battles and bloodshed resulting in a permanent bond between war and faith. this program is about one hour. >> host: karen, hello i am so clad you are here to join us. i have to say i am stunned that you managed to put out one of these books. it seems like every two years. this is one of the most
extraordinary that i've ever seen. i don't know how you keep all this information in your head and how you do this. but that's another story. i want to talk to you about your book because it is first of all so definitive about violence and religion but second, your thesis is really interesting which is that religion may not necessarily be the cause of all violence and i wondered what prompted you to do this but in the first place. >> guest: just because i'm a writer about religion i keep getting told by taxi drivers and psychiatrists and teachers a free widget has been the cause of all of the major war in history and that is clearly not true. the first and second were not caused for religion they were fought for the secular nationalism.
and i think that if we can keep testing religion and the role of the absolute fill-in, we are not looking at some of the other factors the military historians are always involved in both violence and terrorism. we never go to war they tell us for a single reason or single ideology. there are always other factors involved. ..