tv Book Discussion on Lone Star Nation CSPAN January 17, 2015 11:00pm-11:46pm EST
ustice might be the swing vote in that case whether it's same-sex marriage or if it's on a pension case. these lawyers know who they need to condense. >> host: you talk a little bit about this in "breaking in." how often can the justice have a personal relationship with the lawyers argued in front of them them? >> guest: they are all appointed for life but they have had history before the court. maybe they once worked for them. elena kagan was the boss to several of men and women who argued before the court now when she herself was solicitor general. so their personal interactions. >> host: what is your next book? >> guest: i don't know but i'm going to be one. so much fun. do you have an idea of? this is more of a political history than a biography and i'm kind of running out of the ones
with great personal stories so i've got to think long and hard. the other reason you to think long and hard as you spend so much time doing it. it pulls you away from your family in your day job so you want to choose wisely. >> host: "breaking in" is the name of joan biskupic's is that the rise of sonia sotomayor and the politics of justice. >> thank you everyone for being here. welcome to book people. i'm steve one of the owners the store and very happy to be here.
i'm particularly happy to be able to introduce richard parker this evening to talk a little bit about his book, "lone star nation"." richard in case you guys don't know this is an award-winning journalist. he has written works that have appeared in "the new york times," the new republic and that columbia journalism review many other prominent newspapers and journals across the country. he has written about wars and conflicts in places like mexico our neighbor and iraq, kosovo but now he is come to an even more dangerous place to write and that is texas. so the question i guess that is posed here is texas going to be the california the 21st century and will the six migration into the state truly transform our state into something that will lead the nation as we go forward into the century and will texas still be
texas when this is all said and done? without further ado i would like to present richer to try to talk about those issues. [applause] >> thank you very much. thanks to all of you for coming out on a tuesday night. a special thanks to steve and the crew at book people which is the world's greatest bookstore. thanks to c-span. my publisher in new york kliebert hancock at texas books and a few people nides. ginger lowery was instrumental in helping steve and i put this together. one of the people this book is dedicated to an audience isabel parker and her mother, lori and a couple of friends we see here as well. thanks for coming everyone. what i would like to do is just give you an overview essentially of the book and then take a few questions and then i will read for about 10 minutes. i promise i won't inflict 30 minutes of reading on you.
but the premise of the book is that a great deal that we think we know about texas is not quite right. i would even go so far as to say some of it is increasingly absolutely wrong. the reason is when you look at the history of texas for a long time it's been framed about the history of the land. there've been wonderful historians t.r. veron bow and his huge volume lone star for which this is partially made and in his view he argues that land of texas was so fast and so immutable it actually forged a special group of people who could survive it. he was probably right when you look back at the 17th and 18th and 19th centuries. there's a great deal of truth and not do something really important as happened at the beginning of the 21st century trade fair in bok who passed away last year could never have foreseen it. he wrote his book in 1969 they
believe, the first edition. and that is that texas is filling up with people and that's something that has never happened in the 16 or 17,000 years of human history in texas. that to me is a really big deal. that is a big event. when you think about texas is about the size of france. it's around seven help -- 700,000 square miles but the core of texas was a call today the texas triangle dallas-fort worth boston santonio houston is where 80% of texans will live in the center in is only about 60,000 square miles. so what we are seeing is 80% of the state's population living in a tiny fraction of its land mass mass. to give you a point of comparison the population
density in the texas triangle by around the middle of just the century which is about 35 years will resemble the density of the new york boston corridor where the population between los angeles and san diego. we are talking about population densities that used to being measured in dozens of people per square mile hundreds becoming thousands and tens of thousands of people. that's a very different texas and even the one i grew up in 50 years ago. that said i think there are some great reasons to be bullish and optimistic about texas. they are also some reasons that texas and those who care about texas should have real concerns. what is there to be bullish about? well we are almost the biggest landmass and we may become the biggest population.
there is an outside chance that texas will exceed california is the largest most populous state in a union by 2050. we have a booming economy compared to much of the rest of united states and certainly much of the rest of europe and parts of asia. in fact if current trends generally hold texas will go from being the 14th largest economy in the world to the fourth largest. it would overtake germany by the middle of this century. to take that a step further the amount of economic activity in texas will mean the difference between america remaining the number one economy in the world and china remaining the number two economy in the world. third texas embodies the kind of ideals about opportunity and individualism that are just
extreme versions of being an american. molly ivins said it far better than i did. texas is just like america just more so. as a result we have special in my view responsibilities and i see three very important threats. i see them sort of like under collapse on the horizon of a sunny day. one of these is very obvious to most of us here who are here through the most recent drought. there's not enough water. we barely have enough water to sustain 27 million people right now. how we sustain 50 million people is very unclear to me particularly when there is growing scientific evidence that climate change is lessening the amount of rainfall that hits the dirt in texas and the rest of the american southwest. the boudin today in texas is does not run on oil, runs on water.
the second thing, the big challenge is that we are witnessing now run marks back their character in the book. we are witnessing the birth of a new texas majority for pretty well 200 years texas has had an anglo majority. they came flooding into texas in the early part of the 19th century and soon there were mild mild -- more anglos in texas than -- and americans combined. as of last year 2014 hispanics with the largest ethnic group in texas. becoming an outright majority is not something that will happen in our children's lifetime. it will happen almost any year now. the population projections for texas whether it's the outright growth for the majority the manu majority that's emerging
are constantly being outstripped by offense. what we have not solved for the new texas majorities the question of upward mobility. hispanics are graduating in texas from high school at the same rate by and large is anglos are african-americans however they are not going on to college at the same rate. a big reason is money. without going on to four-year schools were specialty training they are going to miss out on the opportunity to as much as double their incomes. this could mean if we don't solve this question of upward mobility which is not a handout but a leg up we could wind up with a majority that is not upwardly mobile whose kids do not do better than they do and who will not generate enough income to keep the economy going by durable consumer goods. they won't be able to afford to buy homes and they won't be able to afford to send their kids to college.
that means they won't be a low to sustain the tax base either. that's a daunting thing because a prosperous texas could become a poor texas and that could happen within 30 years. lastly there is a political question here and that is does texas expand the democracy or do we limit it? a lot of people have criticized me when i talk about politics in the book when i say look 2014 the republicans swept texas isn't that proof positive that nothing is really going to change? i had this very question this morning. i was on the radio in ireland impacted the answer is no. when you have an election which only one in three registered voters fewer than 5 million out of 15 million go and vote that is not very healthy democracy. that does mean though that
parties whether republican or democrat can manipulate the levers of power to remain in power. that is what that means so for texas to make choices about water, but education, but the future, about the economy is going to require that more of us not fewer of us participate in democracy and that's a sea change. that's something we have not really known in texas so with that there is no need to buy the book. i'm kidding, steve. with that i will take a few questions and then i will read briefly from the book. any questions or comments? disagreements? [inaudible] >> if you have a majority of the population more than 50% which does not earn enough money because they are not getting
enough education than you were going to have a majority of the population that will beat poorer than the majority is now. >> is their country and the world that will come to risible risible --. >> that's a good question. yeah. it's pretty dramatic and it's not a fair comparison but there are many examples of places in the world where an ethnic majority has been locked in a power and wealth. south africa before apartheid is a great example. is that an extreme example? yeah it is, i agreed but you have essentially the disenfranchisement of the majority of the population for decades so in this case it would not be overt or racial.
even voting laws today in texas are comparatively restrictive so they would never be like south africa per se but that gives you an idea. you could have majority the population for inadequately educated and have little to no effective political power. >> with the lack of water slowed down the migration to texas as people wherever they were coming from soba problems and undoubtably the price for water would rise wouldn't that sure down the migration? >> you raise a really good point which is what is the price of water in right now water is somehow -- somewhere between free and cheap. we don't have a pricing scheme for water that actually causes consumers are industries to inhibit their use. i'm not suggesting that is the answer that we have seen even in
central texas major water authority sell off the surface water rights to foreign companies particularly canadian companies. some of those cases we have seen the price of water go way way up. nearby wood creek has experience vessel that is true whether the price of water is kept artificially suppressed, no. we will probably run out of affordable real estate before he ran out affordable water but to your point we would run out of affordable water right after that. any more? sir. >> is mexico going to take texas away from us? >> yes. no. texas and mexico have a complicated and interesting relationship which runs in parallel with that of the united states and mexico. i worked in mexico for many years as a reporter. texas has become to mexico a
really important place always has been for trade and other reasons since nafta their relationship has grown economically stronger. but where you are seeing now is the migration of very wealthy mexicans to texas to san antonio, el paso, houston, austin so you are saying the nature of their relationship began to change. for a long time texas had people from mexico working in low-wage jobs either documented or undocumented but that is changing and i think that's going to make the relationship between texas and mexico actually more important not less important in the coming years. yes maam. >> what are some solutions you might offer for the other two problems education and voting getting the vote out? >> well i think to sum them up
the voting issue is kind of complicated but in terms of water the current plan in texas is essentially to build more reservoirs just as we did in the 1960s after the great drought of record. that plan is only currently partially funded and only partially paid for so the first thing is we have to figure out a way to actually pay for assuming that's the plan. i think a very fair criticism that has been raised to that is is that really the best plan we have got? >> i would like to speak to that. i am a member of the local sierra club and that the recent lecture we had a man speak who is a former top guy at lcr and he was talking about this. he was saying not only climate change but one of the things is that the temperatures are slightly hotter and the small increase in the temperature is a huge increase in evaporation rates. it's like an exponential thing.
if you get a few degrees hotter, huge evaporation so building big reservoirs west of here is just not a good idea in his opinion. >> i think that's true. you're just going to pool the water to evaporate off of the services. we need to do our thinking for the legislature apparently but also we need to think further ahead. do we need to go to more expensive solutions like desalinization, are the ways that we share water between urban areas and farmers 50 years ago or though still adequate? the question about education all has to do with the price of education. we have seen exponential increases in the cost of tuition and fees at state land grant universities and that is a big
obstacle to people with limited economic means of what other ethnicity when it comes to sending their kids to college. the reason we have seen those is the legislature and governor have refused to fund the expansion of these universities. the mission of the land grant universities is to educate every texan essentially who wants an education. these should not be institutions that are close to largely everybody. any more questions? if not i will read and we will pick up questions. okay.
chapter 2, the great migrations. on an isolated stretch of desert and imaginary line slices of land separating mexico from texas. this is a land of boundaries a few miles to the west the muddy rio grande cuts rio grande cuts his way cell separating mexico from united states. to the east the oregon mounds mark the southern end of the rockies and the purple franklin mountains to the southeast of the beginning of the harsh chihuahua desert. interstate 10 stretches out across mazes double wide blacktop remnants between amounts of the river connecting the atlantic and pacific oceans. 18-wheelers push on in both directions but most of the cars are going east. one after another the same license plate, california. quickly their bright yellow sign framed by rustic wooden posts bits for my farewell to new mexico. a few seconds later modest green
highway signs with a red white and blue flag comes into view welcome to texas. for many travelers from california are brief -- will set and they have crossed desert from southern california after all but that feeling is dashed by the next mileage sign, el paso 18 miles, beaumont 852 miles. it's still some 600 miles to the big cities in between dallas san antonio austin and houston are a full day's drive away. between 2005 and 2010 some 3.4 million californians left the golden state. for many middle class the reasons were simple high housing prices, scarce jobs and mounting taxes. housing was expensive and when the real estate bubble pops that took the economy and the jobs with it but taxes remain tied. so those who could and those who have to thought out.
decades in which california gained more people that lost. california once embodied the american dream of orange groves and opportunity and sunny beaches. now the california diaspora dispatched people to neighboring states like oregon and arizona. get the single largest number but a million in the initial years, went to texas with many making that long trek through the desert pass the state line and amir to reach the big cities of texas houston and dallas san antonio and austin. in california was not the only home americans left behind for a new life in the lone star state. over the same five-year period nearly 3.5 million americans arrived in texas from all points in the united states. california guess but also new york washington d.c. chicago miami portland seattle and hundreds of other towns and cities in between.
america was in the throes of one of its periodic and epic mass migrations. among them were the westward expansion and european migration of the 19th century, the great migration of african-americans from the neighboring south to the industrial industrial midwest in the 20th century and the great depression migration from a dust bowl to the fields and groves of california itself. when these occur they alter the course of history. entire economies arise. new social pressures are created created. power changes hands. texas has seen five such migrations. this is the sixth. in each case the migrations to texas created economic social and political change that reverberated across america and in some cases around the world. indeed texas may be one of the great magnets of mass migration in human history. like the current of the strong river carved into the earth the
sixth migration hassle over 3.6 million people to the state and deposits over 1000 fresh arrivals every single day. in the 70s and 80s the collapse of the industria rust belt joe the first large wave of non- southerners to texas and that was the fifth migration. these migrants left their mark by decisively moving the state's conservative politics from the democratic to the republican. no republican has won the white house in the last quarter century as a result without texas nor could they. earlier in the 20th century oil for southerners to the fourth migration to create an industry that to this day and for better or for worse fuels the modern economies of the world. the third migration the mass arrival of southerners in the early 19th century led to war independence the expansion of slavery and the indian wars and that it triggered still more war
with mexico and ultimately after texas was granted statehood that tipped america into its bloodiest conflict the civil war. before that the second migration from asia spawned the native american cultures that in turn brought with them agriculture trade and award and the arrival of the first he from asia 16,000 years ago constituted the first migration. for the first time the pristine natural order of north america hunting harvesting and the hand of the creature had ever known man. it is difficult nearly impossible to understate the impact of mass migrations. wherever and whenever they occur migrations are spurred as much by need and even desperation is ability. in many cases the people who most need to go cannot. those with the most resources never need to leave.
it is instead the people is just enough resources to make the journey but not enough to stay. who find a motive to set out for a long trek toward an uncertain home. the migrations that shaped texas and reshaped america share many similarities with the other mass migrations of history. some 95,000 years ago the first mass migration from africa, the very cradle of mankind was spurred by drought which brought with its twin, starvation. these migrants brought with them a technology and experience that enabled primitive europeans to hunts mastodons. the germanic migration south from the baltics to the expanding roman empire brought more from the four to six centuries. the great atlantic migration from 1880 to 1919 brought 60 million europeans to the new world and some 20 million of them to the united states. the forced migration of the
slave trade said 20 million africans across the atlantic many of them dying during the passage. the mid-20th century forced migration of between 11 and 20 million people by nazi germany including 6 million jewish into their death in europe. the consequences as a result of mass migration are fast. consider the great went migration from europe to the united states. it ensued even of texas fell into a wall of its own industrialization was proceeding rapidly in great britain and yet the rob resources needed for manufacturing for half the nation away the new world so that's where the largely unskilled labor was needed in the united states canada north america as well as argentina and brazil in south america. for decades wages in europe fell and for the same decades wages in the united states rose.
mass migration is fueled not just economic power for political power too. new york was the most populous state in the union in 1810 with a little less than 1 million inhabitants until the civil war some of the five largest states were southern slaveholding states and the spanish from the top after the 1860 census. the word may work receive many immigrants from europe and grew 20% of decade. more growth begat more growth. is new york's wilda became the undisputed manufacturing and financial center of the nation but also wielded more political power in washington both formally and informally. from 1860 through the turn-of-the-century pennsylvania ohio illinois and missouri rounded out the top five population centers and their power in washington grew too. usually putting their man in the white house and sending more wealth back home. of the 22 presidents who served in the white house during the
19th century alt-a three came from one of the five most populous states. new york state alone boasted five presidents during this period and when "the new yorker" was in the white house generally speaking a man from ohio indiana or illinois was. in the 20th century there would be no greater example in the marriott can experience to date than that of the great depression. more than a million people uprooted to flee the dust bowl. the collapsing farms and ranches in a real prospect of starvation. once a magnet for migrants texas was now exporting people westward. the combination of drought and poor agricultural practices erosion produced dust storms three miles eastward off the atlantic coast but if the family had $10 for gasoline and owned the vehicle they could make it from texas oklahoma or arkansas all the way to california. every book for that california
so many poor migrant families that tended to be upper income and tend to be single meant that these migrants brought entire household familiar with farm work and unafraid of the shantytowns. then something changed. war broke out in the federal government was spending $8.5 billion a year in california alone compared to less than 200 million before the war. not only were there more jobs but higher-paying ones bases and airfields, deep those factories and shipyards. the bone coupled with the draft spurred more migration. another 1.9 million new residents move to california between 1940 and 1945 alum. in the latter part of the 20th century california came to dominate and define the american experience economically socially
politically just as they are kept them before and now it is texas' turn. [applause] yes maam. >> would you explain in light of all the shrinking resources and increasing people you envision this state becoming a liberal bastion? >> well, i think the pressures of dense urbanization hold much of the answer to that question. you can have conservative politics holds sway amasa portion of the country and there's nothing wrong with that. i'm not a particularly progressive firebrand but they
hold sway in places where there is a lot more living room. rural areas for instance wide-open places, even sprawling suburbs. those are places where contemporary conservative politics have taken root and continued to thrive. where they don't thrive is intensely urbanized areas where people live on top of one another and i think that's the primary thing. a lot of people have argued well before this book was published that the hispanic majority is what will turn texas into a democratic state. perhaps but i think they are overlooking something that is far more immediate and that is people living in population densities that resembles southern california in the northeast corridor. when that happens there is virtually no evidence that conservative republican politics as we know them today will thrive. in fact when i was researching the book the only republican
mayor of a major city was the mayor of indianapolis which is actually far smaller than austin. so at present i think conservative republican politics has a really hard time sort of ruling in the big cities. we are at the see that. dallas and dallas county have been run by democrats almost unbroken for 20 years. houston has had a very successful democratic mayor who is finishing i believe her fourth term now. san antonio has been a democratic town, unbroken period. austin has as well. there were times when these places were not the bulk of the population. but that's not sure anymore and
people forget there were times in dallas and houston were staunchly republican but that is not sure either so the answer to your question is is the dense urbanization that begins to change peoples needs and when needs change politics will follow. yes sir. >> how do you think the okies have migrated influence california? >> that's a good question. initially they were actually very rare. people didn't really like them. as i noted in the book california was used to having wealthier migrants come and even single men so they were treated poorly and often treated as second rate citizens. but i think that part of my
>> it is true that we used to hunt together. the most fun that i had writing it was an experience but research jane was drudgery. we'll have been living at. one of the biggest reason will ever know. >> want to answer your questions. we'll texas remain texas? >> i deal with that in the back of the book. the reason it is important to all of us to have those
who made the same. and i think those things will come from change with the hispanic population is this -- traditionally younker -- younkers a they have decades of economic activity ahead of them. so we start to be conceived of america was a generation of baby boomers. instead as a useful addition compared to other industrialized powers they could never replicate. du but that said i believe
strongly the cowboy myth for lack of better word in the enthusiasm that people brave when they get here will always keep texans special every become more of the laboratory it will start to look more like texas in my opinion if we see the three challenges that i lay down. the people buy into the myth even though they don't know though whole in the ground. but when i was finishing the book was this a poll asked last year's you consider yourself a texan or american first? lowe's consider a day set
americans first but those who consider themselves texans the most recently arrived people from mexico. so there you have all the evidence that you read that if we want to facilitate the do richard -- a majority are invested to preserve this place as we were. that is my answer. >> 87 edge for coming. -- they accuse so much for coming. >> if you don't already have a copy. [laughter] we have loads downstairs that the information desk. the receipt for the book is
>> host: the author of four dogs -- war dogs. who was on the cover of your book? >> this is to be a training exercise and it does include the top -- a drop from the helicopters. >> was part you to write about war dogs? >> my job as foreign policy i have been writing about the al iraq war. and i really loved dogs as said was looking at the photos off of the wire one stood out from afghanistan because they are raised as bomb sniffing dogs and they were heavy and how did everybody was happy. said ucb unfortunate photos
and those with injuries so why did that for about four years. >> host: how many dogs are used in the military? and what is the cost of treating one? to read the cost varies. so the praetors that the military gets their dog from is said eruptive they are a little more expensive because they are pedigreed to be more intense. it can be aware from 20,000 up that 50,000 from their trading in purges and time and energy. >> host: what is one thing that surprised you? >> there has spent a lot because i realized we know that dogs are incredible you can understand that a communication that we -- the
industry and what we say to them. it really have 5 million. they're theory is better their eyesight is better in the dark so they had the incredible capabilities. >> host: have laidlaw city of the specially trained dogs? >> yes. the number is hard to calculate for the with all the different branches keep thorough records so there is not one large record of what happens to them the air force keeps records they've fallen from the other branches that does not include special forces and