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tv   Book Discussion on Lone Star Nation  CSPAN  January 25, 2015 7:00am-7:46am EST

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to the rainbow lobby where brother guy will be signing books and saying hello. thank you very much. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> you are watching booktv on c-span2 with top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. booktv, television for serious readers. >> saturday, january 24 is national read-a-thon day. a fundraiser for the national book foundation's education
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program, the organizers have asked participants to pledge four hours to reading. throughout the past week booktv asked you on social media what you were planning to read, and here's what you said. >> on our facebook page, carroll says she just started of by all of james madison. >> let us know what you're what you are reading for the national read-a-thon day on facebook or twitter using hashtag time to read and go to penguin random for more information on how to participate. >> you are watching booktv. next, author and journalist richard parker reports on the
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transmission of texas into a publishing center and argues the stable have as big an impact on the country in the 21st century as california did in the 20th century. this event is from book people bookstore in austin, texas. it's about 40 minutes. >> thank you, everyone for being here. welcome to book people. i'm steve bercu, one of the owners of the store. i'm very happy to have you here, and i'm particularly happy to people introduce richard parker this evening to talk a little bit about his book content. richard, in case you guys don't
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know this, is an award-winning journalist. he has written works that appeared in "the new york times," "the new republic," the "columbia journalism review," many other prominent newspapers and journals across the country. he has written about wars and conflicts in places like mexico our neighbor, and iraq kosovo. now he has continued more dangerous place to write, and that's texas. so the question i guess post here is texas going to be the california of the 21st century? will be six migration into this state truly transform our state into something that will lead the nation as we go forward into this century? and will texas still be texas when this is all said and done? so without further ado i would like to present richard to try and talk to you about those issues. [applause] >> thank you very much.
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thank you going out on a tuesday night. a special thanks to steve and crew at book people the world's greatest bookstore. thanks to c-span, my publisher at pegasus books and a few people in the office. i want to thank ginger lowry who was instrument in helping steve and i put this together. one of the people of the book is dedicated to in the audience, isabel parker and her mother, lori, at a couple of friends we see it as well. thanks for coming everyone. what i like to do is give you an overview of essentially of the book and then take a few questions and then i will read for about 10 minutes. i promise i won't conflict 30 minutes of reading on your. but the premise of the book is that a great deal that we think we know about texas is not quite right. i would even go so far as to say some of it is increasing absolutely wrong.
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the reason is when you look at the history of texas for a long time, it's been framed about the history of the land. there have been some wonderful historians he argues the landscape of texas is so vast and so immutable that actually forged a special group of people who could survive in it. he was probably right when you look back at the 17th and 18th and 19th centuries. there's a great deal of truth in that, but something really important has happened at the beginning of the 21st century that fehrenbach who passed where lester could never have perceived. he wrote his book in 1969 i believe, the first edition. and that is that texas is filling up with people and that's something that's never happened in the 16 or 17000
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years of human history in texas. that to me is a really big deal. that's a big event. when you think about texas it's about the size of france, around 700,000 square miles or so. but the core of texas will we called it a texas tribe, dallas-fort worth, austin san antonio, houston. that area is where 80% of texans will live in this century. that area is only about 60,000 square miles. and so what we are seeing is 80% of the state's population live in just a tiny fraction of its land the best. to give a point of comparison, the population density in the texas triangle by around the middle of just this century which is about 35 years from now, will resemble the density of the new york boston corridor, or the population between los
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angeles and san diego. we are talking about publishing density they used to be measured in thousands of people per square mile, hundreds, becoming thousands and tens of thousands people. that's a very different texas and even the one i grew up in 50 years ago. so that said i think there are some really great reasons to be bullish on optimistic about texas. there's also some reasons that texans who care about texas should have real concerns. what is there to be bullish about? well, we're almost the biggest inlay address and we may become the biggest in population. there's an outside chance that texas will exceed california the largest and most viable state in the union by around 2050. we have a booming economy compared to much of the rest of the united states, and certainly much of the rest of europe and
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arts of asia. in fact, if current trends generally hold, taxes will go from being the 14th largest economy in the world to the fourth largest be able overtake germany by the middle of this century. to take that a step further the amount of economic activity in texas will mean the difference between america remaining the number 18 economy in the world, and china remaining the number two economy in the world. third, texas embodies the kind of ideals about opportunity and individualism that are just extreme versions of being an american. molly ivins said that once and she said it far better than i did. texas just like america, just more so. as a result, we have a special
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in my view responsibilities to keep it that way. ic-3 very important threats. i see them sort of like thunder clouds on the horizon on a sunny day. one of these is very obvious to much of this to her through the most recent drought. there's not enough water. wouldn't have enough water to sustain 27 when people right now. how we sustain 59 people is very unclear to me, particularly when there is growing scientific evidence that climate change is actually lessening the amount of rainfall and actually hits the dirt in texas and the rest of the american southwest. the boom today in texas does not run on oil. it runs on water. the second thing is a big challenge, is that we are witnessing now the birth
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essentially of a new texas majority far pretty well 200 years, texas at an anglo majority. they came flooding into texas in the early part of the 19th century and soon there were more anglos in texas than the word mexicans and native americans combined. pakistan being precisely reversed. as of last year 2014, hispanics were the largest ethnic group in texas are becoming an amateurish not something that will happen in our children's lifetime. it will happen almost any year now. the population projections for texas, whether it's outright growth or the majority the new majority that is emerging a costly bidding outstripped by events. what we have not solved for the new texas majority is the question of upward mobility. hispanics are gradually in texas and high school at the same rate by and large as anglos are
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african-americans. however, that not going on to college at the same rate. the big reason is money. without going on to four-year schools or specialty training, they're going to miss out on the opportunity to as much as double their incomes. this could mean if we don't solve this question of upward mobility which is not a hand out but a leg up we could wind up with a majority that is not upwardly mobile, whose kids do not do better than they do and who will not generate enough income to keep the economy going, they won't be able to afford to buy homes and they won't be able to afford to send their kids to college but that means they won't be able to sustain the tax base is the. that's a really daunting thing because it prosperous texas could become a very poor texas. that could happen within 30 years.
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lastly there's the question, a political question and that is us texas expand the democracy or do we limit it? a lot of people have criticized me when i talk about politics in the book by saying look 2014 republicans swept texas, isn't that proof positive that nothing is really going to change? i had this very question this morning but i was on the radio in ireland in fact, and the answer is no. whenwe have an election in which only one in three registered voters, fewer than 5 million and 15 million, go and vote that's not a very healthy democracy. that does mean though that parties, whether they're republicans or democrats, and many believe the levers of power to remain in power. that's what it means. so for texas to make choices
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about water about education, about the future, about the economy, is going to require that more of us, not fewer of us participate in the democracy. that's a sea change. that's something we've not really known in texas. so with that there's no need to buy the book. no i'm kidding. with that i will take a few questions and then i will read mercilessly briefly from the book. any questions, comments, disagreements? [inaudible] >> well, if you had the majority of the population, more than 50%, which does not earn enough money because they're not getting enough education, then you're going to have a majority of the population that will be poor than the majority of them. [inaudible] >> hold your hand up.
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>> anyone? >> is there a country in the world that might come to resemble -- [inaudible] >> that's a good question. yeah. i am drawn, it's pretty dramatic, and it is not a fair comparison that yet, there are many examples of places in the world were an ethnic majority has been locked out of power and wealth. south africa before apartheid is a great example to an extreme example yes, it is. i agree, but you have essentially they are the disenfranchisement of the majority of the population for decades. so in this case it would not be overt or racial. even voting lost it in texas are compared is restricted so they would never be like south africa% but they give you an idea. you could have a majority of the population for and not adequately educated, and have
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little to no effective political power. >> wouldn't the lack of water flow down the migration to texas wherever they were coming from, solve the problems and and i believe the price of water would rise, wouldn't that slow down the migration? >> you raise a really good point which is what is the price of water. right now water is somewhere priced somewhere between free and cheap. we don't have a pricing scheme for water that actually causes consumers or industries to inhibit their use to am not suggesting that's the answer, but we've seen even in central texas major water authorities selloff of surface water rights to foreign companies particularly canadian companies. and in some of those cases we've seen the price for water go way, way out.
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so that's true but if the price of water is kept artificially suppressed no. we will probably run out of affordable real estate before we ran out of affordable water. but to your point we would run out of affordable water right after that. okay, any more? >> is mexico going to take texas away from us? >> yes. no. no. texas the next have a really compensated an interesting relationship which runs in parallel with that of the united states in mexico. i worked in mexico for many years as a reporter. texas has become to mexico a really important place always has been for trade and other reasons since nafta and the relationship is going economically stronger. but what you're seeing now is
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the migration of very wealthy mexicans to texas to san antonio, el paso houston austin. so you are seeing sort of the nature of the relationship began to change but i think for a long time texas thought of people coming from mexico over to work as undocumented jobs. but that's changing. i think that's going to make the relationship between texas and mexico actually more important not less important in the coming years. >> what are the solutions you might offer for the other two problems, education and voting getting the vote out? >> well, i think to some of them up, the voting issue is kind of complicated but in terms of water, the current plan in texas is essentially to build more reservoirs, just as we did in
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the 1960s after the great drought of record. appliance only currently partially funded and it is only partially paid for. so the first thing is we have to kowtow to actually pay for it, assuming that's the plan. i think a very fair criticism that has been razor that is is that really the best plan we've got? >> i would like to speak to that. i'm a member of the local sierra club and a recent lecture we have immense big to us and he was talking about this. u.s.a. not only climate change but one of the things is that the temperatures are slightly hotter and this small increase in temperature is a huge increase in evaporation rates. it's like an exponential thing to you get a few degrees hotter, so it's just evaporating faster and building big reservoirs west of here is just not a good idea
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in his opinion. >> i think that's true. you're just going to pull the water to evaporate off the surface. that's exactly right. we need to think that we need to do our thinking for the legislature apparently, but also when you think further ahead. do we need to go to more expensive solutions like desalinization? are the conservation efforts in the? but the question about education, it all has to do with the price of education. we have seen exponential increases in the cost of tuition and fees at state land-grant universities, and that is a big obstacle to the people of limited economic means of whatever ethnicity when it comes to sending their kids to college. the reason we've seen those is that the legislature and the
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governor, have refused to fund the expansion of these universities. and the mission of the land-grant universities is to educate every texan essentially wants an education to the should not be institutions that are closed to largely everybody. all right any more questions? if not i will read and we will pick up questions. okay. chapter two, great migrations. on an isolated stretch of desert, an imaginary line slices the land separating mexico from
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texas. this is the land of boundaries a few miles to the west the mighty rio grande cuts its way south separating signal from the united states. to the east the organ mountains mark the southern end of the rockies and the purple franklin mountains to the southeast note the beginning of the harsh to wallow in desert. interstate 10 stretches out across me says in a pair of double wide blacktop remnants between the mountains and river connecting the atlantic and pacific oceans. 18 wheelers push on in both directions but most of the cars are going east. one after another there's the same license plate, california. quickly, a bright yellow sign framed by rustic wooden posts bid them farewell to new mexico and a few seconds later a modest green highway signs with red white and blue flags comes into view, welcome to texas. for many travelers from california a brief collation will set in. they've crossed seven of 61 miles of desert from southern
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california after all, but the feeling is dashed by the very next mileage sign el paso 18 miles, beaumont 852 miles. and it is still some six miles to the big cities in between, dallas san antonio, austin and houston are still a full day's drive away. between 2005-2010, some 3.4 million californians left the golden state. for many in the class the reasons were simple. high housing prices and scarce jobs and mounting taxes. housing was expensive and then when the real estate bubble popped, took the economy and the jobs with it. taxes remained high. so those who could and those who had to got out, immersing decades in which california gained more people than it lost. california once embodied the american dream of orange groves and opportunities and sunny
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beaches. now the california the aspirant dispatched people to neighboring states like oregon and arizona. yet the single largest number, about a million in the initial years, went to texas with many making that long trek through the desert, past the state line and onward to reach the big cities of texas, houston dallas, san antonio and austin. if california was not the only home americans left behind for a new life in the lone star state. over the same five year period nearly 3.5 million americans arrived in texas from all points in the united states. california yes, but also new york, washington, d.c., chicago miami, portland, seattle and hundreds of other towns and cities in between. america was in the throes of one of its periodic and epic mass migrations. among them were the westward expansion and european migration of the 19th century, the great migration of african-americans
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from the south to the industrialized midwest in the 20th century and the great the oppression migration from the dust bowl to the fields and groves of california itself. when these occur they alter the course of history. entire economies arise to new social pressures are created, power changes hands. texas kissing i've such migrations. this is the sixth. in each case the migrations to texas created economic, social and political change that reverberated across america, and in some cases around the world. indeed texas may be one of the great magnets of mass migration in human history. like the current of a strong new river suddenly carved into the earth, the sixth migration has delivered 3.6 many people to the state and deposits over 1000 fresh arrivals every single day. in the '70s and 80s the
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collapse of industrial rust belt drove the first large wave of non-southerners to texas and that was the fifth migration. these migrants left their mark by decisively moving the states conservative politics from the democratic column to the republicans. no republican has won the white house in the last quarter-century as a result without texas, nor could they. earlier in the 20th century oil brought southerners in the fourth migration to greet an industry that to this day and for better or for worse fuels the modern economies of the world. the third migration from the mass arrival of southerners in the early 19th century led to war, independence, the expansion of slavery, and the indian wars. and then it triggered still more war with mexico and ultimately after texas was granted statehood, it tipped america into its bloodiest conflict, the civil war. before that the second migration
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from asia spawned the native american cultures that in turn brought with them agriculture trade, and war, and the arrival of the first humans also from asia 16,000 years ago constituted the first migration. for the first time the pristine natural order of north america that was hunting, harvesting and and of the creature it had never known, man. it is difficult, nearly impossible, to understate the impact of mass migrations. wherever and whenever they occur migrations are stored as much by need, even desperation and a belief in many cases the people who most need to go cannot. those with the most resources never need to leave. it is instead the people with just enough resources to make the journey but not enough to stay. we find a motive to set out on a long trek toward an uncertain home. the migrations that shaped texas
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and reshaped america share many similarities with the other mass migrations of history. some 95,000 years ago the first mass migration from africa, the very cradle of mankind, whispered by drought which brought with it its twin starvation. these migrants brought with them the technology that extends that enabled primitive europeans to hunt macedon spirit their germanic migration southward to the baltics indeed expanding roman empire brought war from the fourth two the sixth interest to the great atlantic migration from 1880-1919 brought 60 million europeans to the new world, and some 20 million of them to the united states. the forced migration of the slave trade sent 20 million africans across the atlantic, many of them dying during the passage. the mid-20th century forced migration of between 11 and 20 million people by nazi
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germany included 6 million jews it to death across your. the consequences as a result of mass migration are fast to consider the great atlantic migration from europe to the united states. it ensued even as taxes go into a low pressure a little of its own. it was pursued a rapid in great britain and get the raw resources needed for manufacturing were half a notion awakened in the world. so that's where the largely unskilled labor was needed. in the united states, canada north america as well as argentina and brazil in south america. for decades, wages in europe now. for those same decades, wages in the united states rose. mass migration has fueled not just economic power but political power, too. new york was the most populous state in unique in 1810 with a little west than 1 million inhabitants. until the civil war some of the five largest states were
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southern slaveholding states and these vanished from the top after the 1860 census. after the war new york receive many of the immigrants from europe and grew 20% every decade. more growth the cat more growth. -- begat. new york became the undisputed manufacturing center of the nation but also wielded more political power in washington. both formally and informally. from 1860 through the turn of the century pennsylvania ohio element and missouri rounded out the top five population centers and their power in washington grew, too. usually putting their man in the white house and senate more wealth back on. of the 22 presidents who served in the white house during the 19th century all but three came from one of the five most populous states. new york state alone boasted five presidents during this period, and when a new yorker wasn't in the white house
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generally speaking a man from ohio, indiana or illinois was. in the 20th century, there would be no greater example in the american experience to date than that of the great depression. more than a million people uprooted to flee the dust bowl. the collapsing farms and ranches in a very real prospect of starvation. wants it back to for migrants texas was not exported was for. the combination of drought, poor agricultural prices, erosion produced dust storms went three milesthree miles eastward out of legos. but if they donate $10 for gasoline and owned a vehicle, they could make it from texas oklahoma or arkansas all the way to california. never before in california had so many poor migrant families. before they tended to be up reform middle income, or during the gold rush, single men. these migrants brought entire
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households. they were familiar with farmers and unafraid of the harsh living conditions of labor camps and the shantytowns. and then something changed. war broke out and the federal government was spending a $.5 billion a year in california alone compared to less than 200 million before the war. not only with a more jobs but high-paying ones at airfields depots, factories and shipyards. the boom coupled with the draft spurred a still more migration. another 1.9 million the residents moved to california between 1940-1945 alone. in the latter part of the 20th century, california would come to dominate and define the american experience economically socially, allegedly, just as new york had done before. and now it's texas turn. [applause]
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>> would you explain how in light of all the shrinking resources and the increasing people you envision the state becoming a liberal bastion? >> well, i think the pressures of dense urbanization hold much of the answer to that question. you can have, conservative politics hold sway in lots of parts of the country and there's nothing wrong with it. i'm not a particularly progressive firebrand, but they hold sway in places where there's a lot more living room. rural areas, for instance wide open places, even sprawling
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suburbs. those are places where contemporary conservative politics have taken root and continue to thrive. where they don't thrive is intensely urbanized areas where people are living on top of one another. and i think that's the primary thing. a lot of people have argued well before this book was published that the hispanic majority is what will turn texas into a democratic state. perhaps but i think they're overlooking something that is far more immediate. and that is people living in population densities that resembles southern california and the northeast corridor. when that happens there is virtually no evidence that conservative republican politics as we know them today will thrive. in fact, when i was researching the book the only republican mayor of a major city was the mayor of indianapolis, which is actually far smaller than austin.
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so at present i think conservative republican politics has a really hard time sort of ruling in the big cities. we already see that. dallas and dallas county have been run by democrats almost unbroken for 20 years your houston has had a very successful democratic mayor who is finishing up i believe her fourth term. san antonio has been a democratic town unbroken full stop. austan has as well. there were times when these places were not the bulk of the population, but that's not true anymore. and people forget there were times that dallas and houston were staunchly republican, but that's not true either. so i think the integer question is, is the dense urbanization that begins to change people's
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needs, and we need to change and politics will follow. >> how do you think the okies that migrated influenced california? >> that's a great question. well, initially they were actually very reviled. people didn't really like them. as i noted in the book california was used to having wealthier migrants, or even single men. so they were treated poorly and are often treated as second rate citizens. but i think that part of my family were okies who went to california, so i'm reflecting on their experience. they changed california but with the tragedies they tried to absorb as much of california and its traditions and it's for --
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folklore and even its music as they could. the older line california's complaint that these new californians have altered their culture, and that's true, but they tried really hard to embrace it. and so i think that's actually an analogous lesson for texas. the more people come here, the more they changed it. but the more they tried to be part of it. texas, even more so i would argue than california has a very particular identity. it's part mythology and its part real. but people, as much as they changed places, they often find themselves sticking to. i think that's what happened with the okies. they became very californian iced, and it's what's happening in texas today. >> i would like to recognize another character in the book
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mark siler the gentlemen standing right there. >> are there any other questions? >> can you touch briefly on any sort of shift demographically in religion in the future texas? >> i have decided look into it very much. i don't think that texans are any more or less religious than most americans. and i can't say that i studied with the hispanic majority of their religious aspects, that's just something i put enough effort on. [inaudible] >> what was the most fun you had writing this book and today's? >> shooting does.
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we used to hunt together a lot to the argue passage in there about that. i think the most fun i had was actually living it. writing at all that this kind of hard work and researching it is hard drudgery. writing it was an experience. but i have been living a part of one of the biggest stories i will ever know. so that was the most fun. i wanted to answer your question, since you posted us this evening. you had a couple of them. one of them was will texas remain texas right? i deal with that in the back of the book. and the reason i do is because it's important to all of us who wind up loving the place, whether you are from it or you're a new arrival, you don't want it to change. you remember it as it was for a lease on the essential parts tremendous thing. i think that a lot of good
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things will come from change. people overlook the fact that the hispanic population is substantially younger than the anglo population. that means that they've years and decades of reductive economic activity and work ahead of them. i think it's a wonderful thing. you think about that you start to reconceive of america not as a doddering generation of baby boomers, right? with one foot in the grave, but instead as a useful nation when compared to other industrialized powers. in japan europe will end yes right? and they will never be able to replicate is the the. mexico is too far away. that said, i believe strongly the merging of myths about texas, the cowboy myth for lack of a better word, and the
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enthusiasm that people bring when they come in will always keep texas special. it will become more of a laboratory of america in the 21st century, and america will start to look a lot more like texas, in my opinion, if we saw the three challenges that i laid out. people buy into the myth. they buy a pickup truck even though you wouldn't know a ranch road from a hole in the ground, right? they have cowboy boots and cowboy hats, and the statistic i convinced the ultimate when i was finishing the book was this. there was a poll done the people and asked them last year and you consider yourself a texan or american first? most people responded they consider themselves americans first and texas first. but do you know who the people were who consider themselves texans first?
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the most recently arrived people from mexico. so there you have all the evidence you need that if we want to facilitate the new majority, our errors, are as invested in preserving this place as we were. so that's my answer. >> thank you so much for coming. >> thank you. [applause] >> so the way these signings is going to come if you have a copy already, if you don't have a passionate if you have a copy already, we have loads of copies downstairs at the information desk. if you want to enter the signing line, you receive for your book is like a ticket to enter the line. the line goes this way so we don't block traffic to the stairs, and we will be circulating, not circulating
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walking in a line with post-its if you want the book personalized. thank you all so much for coming. ivc we could not have defense if it were not for y'all, so thanks for being a part of tonight. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> is there a nonfiction author book you would like to see featured on booktv? send us an e-mail to booktv at, tweet us at booktv or post on our wall >> what you get this one is something i think that epitomizes our current national approach to cybersecurity. the pentagon teamed up with these contractors in information
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and intelligence sharing arrangement the that contractors agreed to report to the pentagon threats they were sent on their network and occluding when he had been breached. the pentagon agreed not to disclose this publicly because companies do not to say when the that hackers and cyber networks. and then return the pentagon was going to provide these corporations with information that it was gathered from some intelligence operation to effectively the fruit of espionage that agencies like the nsa were gathering about these threats in china and how they might affect american businesses. this partnership essentially sets up whereby private sector and public are coming together for their mutual purpose of defending these computer networks. companies are essential in this arrangement and this is true across the board when we talk about defending critical systems in the u.s. companies own roughly 85% of the network infrastructure in the united states. the government does not physically control it so companies have to produce it
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with the government in this intelligence sharing and mutual security arrangement if we're going to protect the internet. the effort that began after the pentagon meeting became something of as the defense industrial base initiative which kind of recursive throughout in my book at about 100 companies are members in this today but for only a dozen or so when it began in late 2007. this model has now been expanded to other sectors of the economy beyond the defense industrial base. so today the national security agency, via the homeland secure department, shares this thread intelligence that is marketing from terrorist networks overseas particularly with internet service providers. in the hope they will then program those threat signatures into their own systems scanning for malicious software and intrusion and then protect the people who are their customers downstream. big name technology companies have struck up relationship with the intelligence community. one i write about in the book is google. google has a privilege, kind of
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peering into networks all over the world. they move much of our communications traffic that we're all using everyday. google struck up a relationship with the nsa in 2010 after it was hacked by chinese spies where they agree much like the defense contractors to share information they are seeing on the networks in turn for the nsa providing information to them. so defending cyberspace and also spying in it and attacking in it has become a cooperative effort between the government and intelligence community and its partners in the technology industry. that is what i'm referring to when a write about the military internet complex this coming together of these two powerful forces. >> you can watch this and other programs online at >> rory fanning, a former army ranger who served with pat tillman in afghanistan and left the army as a consciences objector a few days after pat tillman's death, sits down with anand gopal, auth


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