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tv   Book Discussion on A World More Concrete  CSPAN  February 15, 2015 1:00pm-1:31pm EST

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probably include ourselves in that. but when you compare that to another country where there's that little attention... they seem like dual messages. you want to not dishonor or
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belittle or caricature the services and at the same time you need to acknowledge that there are real problems in the health needs to be provided tiered >> i would agree that completely. that is something we spend a lot of time both past and present. i don't think their cv answers to this at all. at least there's attention on it and investing in it. we are pretty much out of time. thank you very much. we really enjoyed the conversation. >> thank you very much. take care. congratulations.
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>> on your screen, a telegram from night 51 from an northcross to the governor of florida. as a property owner in miami will you please help a in our fight to protect our homes from infiltration of the colored race. and the northcross 751 northwest 63rd street. john hawkins professor nathan connolly, what are we looking at here? >> is a document found in the state archives of florida.
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it was one of about two or three dozen telegrams to the governor by residents of the community north miami who were very concerned a white landlord had decided he was going to open his apartment building to have black residency. the development which was called carper village was considered to be a genuine threat to buy property value. it eventually was bombed by white vigilantes and white homeowners working together who try to drive a black resident and eventually the neighborhood was colloquially named little korea because it occurred during the korean war. that telegram and part connects the history of vigilante violence to a new set of conversations about property rights and property values in the governor was presumed to be in the interest of the white homeowners the north miami and they hope to make basically force the expulsion of the african-american residents. >> to telegraph another action lead to legislation affect in
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houses? >> in some cases yes. the greater problem is the violence problem. you had in 1951 is in situ a different public housing into the community as a way of alleviating what could be considered racial tensions that would make miami on a track as a tourist destination. there's an episode in 1947 where you have african-americans who are tactics valid for a much longer set of lobbying initiatives to the local city council and county commission to get rid of them. it happened in south florida in the late 1940s. >> so when your book, "a world more concrete," what is your goal? what are you trying to explain? >> there are two big pieces to this story. one is to think about creation of a more concrete environment and the way people use this state they use private capital to take an area that's
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relatively remote, swampy distant and turning to what becomes the capital of the caribbean. miami slithered reputation now took a lot of work in building a negotiating and figuring out how they were going to bring in labor tourists, real estate and create this remarkable new city. the part of a city building that gets overlooked is how violent they process it is and how it privileges the positions in the interests of property owners. a second big piece of the story is to think about property rates and property values has been a core piece of american political culture. when i think about the project and how it developed, the most important take away was to think about jim crow is a series of negotiations between property owners, white and black. the book tries to help readers appreciate that when you have a colored in white binary system oftentimes the alliances are not
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simply allow the color line but ensures that have to do with who landlords are come over the states rights are in terms of taking property, whether you're protect tenants being exploited by landlords and whether or not the postwar state in particular after world war ii would have the authority it needs to remake the landscape and determine who's going to live where for the sake of the common good. >> what does jim crow mean and when did it develop? >> so jim crow segregation is a system of dividing populations along perceived racial lines. the development of jim crow have been piecemeal across the country. restrictions against integrated schools, integrated housing, transportation happening initially late 19th century to the disenfranchisement of african-american voters. louisiana between 18941904. 99% of african-american voters are distant ranch ice.
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130,000 to 1300. it also includes carving up the land in using the infrastructure of urban development to make sure populations don't run into each other they don't have other conflict and can ultimately harvest as much labor power and rent money from confined population and mostly african-americans. >> professor connolly, in miami with miami in the 40s 50s, 60s a segregated place? did you know if you named a street that was a white neighborhood, black neighborhood, and after a? >> absolutely. i would argue miami still segregated with cultural diversity. we now have different mechanisms and mean-spirited now called the same thing in many respects. what i sure you argue in the book as there is an infrastructure built to serve the political interest to white the amount late 19th and 20 century. they only signed a whites only bus depots and the infrastructure remains in place
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and there's a way to understand the latest segregation remains durable and how populations move along perceived lines by looking at the road bridges neighborhoods and understanding how that becomes a protection for dividing the population. >> how did that affect property value? >> you have to appreciate that the federal government, local developers landlords recognize if you can carve up the region in south florida, but also around the country if you can carpet in tune each markets coming you can charge whites and blacks more for less. just to give you one next april. 1949 you could have a hotel room on the beach that would have access to the true city, indoor plumbing the natural amenities. telephones, television. then you would a $17.50 for the week about south bay. on the other side of the color line in a wooden shack with no
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indoor plumbing, no mosquito screens in the central district committee paid $18 a week or 50 cents more for accommodations. if you look at the profit margins generated across the south during the 40s 50s and 60s you have returned that we haven't seen since the jim crow area. 25 27 33% a year by making sure that certain populations don't have the freedom to move and expand their housing options. it became an extraordinarily important for landlords and developers to make sure populations couldn't move and use extralegal means like terrorism but also legal means by controlling zoning and the like. >> so what was the effect of this jim crow housing on public housing projects? was there a connection? >> there is an absolute connection. in the 1930s and the federal government decided it would get
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involved full text ellen develop public housing projects, landlords didn't like it one bit. they were concerned the federal government would basically create a socialistic option and it would undermine the housing market. but they were ready to provide concrete solid construction for many residents. a number of small developments in miami. one called liberty square. take what homes in advancing a couple others in particular the creation of these projects represent a threat to mobilize landlords to create lobbying groups to pride of public housing. seven cities between the late 30s and early 1950s you have almost no public housing built at all and in a southern city with few developments for veterans coming back from the war appeared where much recognize that they can keep the public option out of the marketplace, they can continue to gouge tenants. when you see that you can't sustain this out demographic growth and still have deplorable housing, that is a political act or is mobilize back into the
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conversation. but there's a problem. what do you do with the existing population? you can't wait for new developments to be built. better to negatively 50s and early 60s, housing authorities in miami and elsewhere try to convince landlords that they can use their own housing development and convert them into public housing. the first built in the early and late 1950s are once privately owned taken over by the state for a fee and used as public housing projects in the late part of the 1960s. >> was it just white landlords white property owners getting rich? >> no. in the late 19th century in the wake of disenfranchisement in the wake of white terrorism and violence, property rights became one of the most durable foundations for african-american political futures. the most important leaders b-day
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dennis lawyers ministers were also landowners and property owners. the young protections were much stronger on property rights and civil rights and voting rights. part of what's important to consider about the world before brown v. board of education is african-americans use land. they voted in elections by bringing property tax receipt to different kinds of conversations with white elite. they thought the mystical bonds in the use of the ownership of these projects to subsidize them fund black community building. one of the things that's interesting about development of jim crow is too often times have white and black landlords working together to keep out massive land projects that might take away real estate holding but also to do philanthropy and create black college football games in the late 1940s are built hospitals or churches. there's a coalition that develops for your white paternalism and black projects
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funded by the same black tenants and working together to create in a number of institutions. the mac professor connolly, did this create a permanent or semipermanent underclass? >> no. when you use the term on the classic tends to describe a certain kind of cultural component particularly the culture tenet. part of what will hopefully come from this book in other conversations that might generate is to think about the class of property owners about their own culture but if you pursue the process mode that will lead to social and political goods coming as a result. very interesting and very familiar arguments you hear in the 1930s about the cultural depravity coming from black and white landlords. they say absurd insectlike tenant to want to be walking on concrete floors and a concrete construction. they prefer wood construction. it's cheaper and burns down. for the cultural deficiencies of black families in the 40s and
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50s and all they need is a good management company to make sure they do other supposed to do. nevermind that landlords are not fixed are not fixing the roots and do another repair work. arguments about the underclass, perceived cultural poverty of landlords were making those arguments. people don't want to invest because it cuts into their bottom line. the most important housing reforms were in an ironic way invested in the forms themselves. a number of figures get caught by investigative journalists for having deplorable housing even as members of the city council, the head of the naacp chapters or other political positions, u.s. senators as well as local elite judges. >> from what you've described herein your book "a world more concrete," are there manifestations of this today?
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>> a couple of big continuities come immediately to mind. one is the profitability of segregation. we still set housing values. it's imperial they demonstrated you determine what homes are worth based on their distance from ghettos are rather combined winter populations. there's a way in which we still privilege the opinions and political authority of people who own property as it did not stir the political system and know exactly what decisions need to be made. democracy and capitalism end up wanting to have the knack of citizen being case but also make sure you keep certain voice is marginal. that's an artifact of the jim crow moment. as a quick example, when you have depression of segregation at each is where golf courses the first people to segregate or those black landlords who could produce property tax receipt and
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show they had paid into the community chest and they were the ones who take hated the agenda. they were trying to organize unions and keeping a constant flow of rent coming into their pocket as a way of at least arguing from the outset that they are doing what is best for the community. buy rent we want turned though the institution that provides services unique to that pastry client relationship is still part of our political culture. >> from your book let's do some everything tomorrow. this is a "miami herald" 1950 cartoon. what do we see? >> it is and not from the slum clearance to be for the late
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40s and early 1950s. the argument that came out of the late 40s when you see an expansion of the state's power to take driver property for public to the part in that domain helps to animate reformers to believe they can save the reputation if they move systematically against slum housing and social need for district across the city. one of the difficulties of the moment politically is to have a number of artists housing the farmers who recognize the only way to solve this is to have mass displacements. you begin to see black and white activists make any argument that it's uncomfortable displacements in the short term. 1000 2000 12,000 families to remake the ghetto if you allow us to expand our ability to take private property. on the other side you have white landlords and black homeowners crowded to say we don't want to eminent domain actions. we want to hold onto our particular presence in this neighborhood center and sent the
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unit to local conflict in the 50s and 60s about whether or not slum clearance is the best answer for solving the problem of poverty in the color line. >> was a successful? >> no. you're for remarkable ability where capital can outpace regulation. when you have new content developments happening across the region, my grip money from the slum district can go right into suburban districts. so part of the political equation presumed suburban housing will open up for people of color or for the poor. in many cases once you begin to see people of color moving into miami's white suburbs they begin to have changes in zoning regulation. housing code enforcement begins to slip at the county level of the level nec landlords are right in new buildings and narrow properties in these communities that were considered to be best for single-family
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homes. what happens is the money used to generate jim crow's infrastructure in 20s and 30s and does privilege property owners gets more and more pronounced, more dramatic. to give you one example in the late 1920 in miami about 70% of the housing was owned by white. absentee landlords outside the neighbor. liberty city, which starts up the suburban community. by the time of comes in 1968, 92% of their real estate is owned by whites living outside the community. you have a four year difference in a dramatic uptake in the amount of ownership you see among white landlords peered part of that is about the fact this is a manera of slum clearance and renewal hopes to divest black are pretty owners and transfer it to white hands.
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by liquidating black assets and making it impossible for many people to restart in creating a nest egg and transfer property almost as a moderate course to white hands and absentee landlords. you get more difficult even more hardships for these neighborhoods. >> professor, what do you teach at johns hopkins? >> inet structure of american politics. i teach a course called america after the civil rights movement. i also teach jim crow in america. i teach a graduate class called racial literacy for historians about understanding the way races moving from the 1500s into the current day in how it's moving through the archives and how we can understand the way power and inequality gets replicated from one era to the next of how racism functions and may also teach a course on urban and suburban america coming metropolitan history course. the book that you are discussing today has a lot about miami in
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the context of jamaica and cuba and dominican republic. i tried the best i can to make sure students read outside the u.s. it's important to have a comparative perspective. >> what is the photo you chose for the final? >> that is my favorite photo you there's a lot of pictures. this is a park established in 1969 in the central niekro district after the interstate highway comes through and displaces some 50,000 residents. it's actually created by a city commissioner in the city of miami and she is also a landlord who s. property not in the best of shape. so i use the playground is the way of illustrating several things. the first is obviously the imposing shot of the overpass itself in a summit helping people appreciate how large these projects were to folks on the ground. it's remarkable not to be nothing like the highway system existed in the history of the
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world. we were saying highways would come in and do good. no one could imagine how massive they were. the project develops and removes 80 acres plots of land that time and in the wake of displacement there's a lot of ill will in the city. as the poor move from the central niekro district displacing the liberty city it creates 1968. after the riot the idea was we clearly need parklands. they put in underneath the overpass. yet the mayor city commissioners, members of the naacp compound. about a thousand people congregated under the overpass and the thought of as being this great moment of congratulation. racial progressivism, economic growth and this will be a sign of the new interracial culture that takes miami to the next great moment. obviously now that we look at it with hindsight, you see just how small of an investment it is in
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the community. it nsaid been totally underfunded and underinvested. they don't put up a life that promise. the grass is relatively dead and undercuts. so it becomes a marker for me in the book of the political culture that began under jim crow and continued into the late 1960s and early 1970s. property ownership culture. we have the city fathers negotiating about the best project to placate the poor and seemingly inefficient by the time you get to a year out from the project team van. >> you are from south florida. what side of the color line where you based on? >> so i grew up in a neighborhood called miramar florida in broward county. we were in the first by counties to move in the late 1970s, early 80s. i went to elementary school in miramar and one of the things that became pretty clear as i got older i notice the
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neighborhood making the transition from white to basically black. you had a number of haitian migrants, to make an migrants coming to the community. there were folk rumors about the ducks in the neighborhood disappearing because they will come into town and feeding the ducks that were around the neighborhood. so the neighborhood was kind of going downhill as they continue to tip from white to black. in elementary school i was one of two or three black kids in my elementary school class. by the time i got to the middle-school and into high school, there is talk of the neighborhood have been changed completely and people are moving -- my childhood friends had moved to distant suburbs. on the central florida and elsewhere in in miramar you have a majority jamaican city council. it's kind of an extension of jamaica in terms of grocery stores hair. my family still lives in the
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neighborhood but it was a classic case of white flight and it happens relatively quickly. >> what is your goal is "a world more concrete"? >> my goal with the book is to have people begin to about where we privilege property ownership as a political end in health. there's a lot of ways to participate but don't necessarily include driving people towards ownership you one of the big tragedies of the early two thousands was the belief you could create a democracy by encouraging subprime mortgages and developing an ownership society but ultimately targeted those that refinance homes or develop some nasty. you can't create a democracy built solely on the accumulation of private property. you have to be much more robust and defending rights of the ports are political voice in the lake. that is part of what is
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important about jim crow as you have a moment where there's a possibility of creating democracy as you tear down the color line. that is the first thing. seconding is the book of the number cared or senate to serve important roles in making sure segregation remains profitable. one of my favorite characters in the book is a native american man who is keeping miami's seminal population confined to the small reservations. the ledges where people can pay money and observe day-to-day activity. an analog later in the book, the white property manager from southern georgia who helps them manage segregation and keep it moving forward in how people make money from it. black landlords were political actors also managing the color line. i want to get people to think about these managerial figures or to what extent our politics being run by those helping make sure segregation maintains a certain profitability, who keep
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certain last week privilege the authority of city officials or corporate leader is the rather investment in communities and to what extent is the land always at issue when i talk about equality? i would love for people to think about how man's politics matter in america. we have a whole literature about the injustice in africa, latin america. when we think about land in this country we tend to think that it's almost an empty vessel but there is any real political content to it. one of the things i've noticed is there's a deep history of land and racism and capitalism all bound up together and you can't simply change complexion of the resident is not change dynamics that you need to think about encouraging new kind of political power regulation new kinds of ownership as well as property. if you have a yet least attentive to these issues we've
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done a great deal of good work. >> if somebody is interested in the history segregation where's a good resource? >> there are a number of databases you can look at. proquest has a great history about the many universities have access to the you can find out much about the day to day dynamics. you can go to the national archives and look at the map of redlining existing in the 1930s to the 40s and 50s developed to make sure you have these niche markets. the federal government totally played a hand in dictating how the economies would be built. the other thing you can do is look at your neighborhood you think about where people are living, the population in miami is an extraordinarily diverse city. it's multilingual, multicultural and yet you can still know where the haitians live, or the jamaican, african-americans of
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the cubans for the wedding photos live. it's very clear and that is absolutely a product of this moment the jim crow moment. you don't get the segregation without there being a consisted manicure and of the color line whether explicitly jim crow or more benignly described as a case of people who want to live among their own or want to have access to certain kinds of amenities and not be worried about crime or other kinds of veteran is your neighborhood. be careful about the language will go a long way about being able to decode the landscape. >> here is a cover of the book, "a world more concrete." the author is john hopkins professor n.d.b. connolly. professor, thank you for your time. >> thank you so much.
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>> daniel webster, how many illegal guns are in the united states today? >> very difficult to estimate. some have estimated in the range of 250 million guns. >> legal guns. >> legal guns. >> handguns, shotguns et cetera. >> and probably more than not. >> how many illegal guns? >> that is very difficult to determine honestly. anything an analyst at market by definition is difficult to measure. i think it also gets confusing about legal and illegal guns. most of our guns are legal, meaning that if the possessors not prohibit it, the gun is

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