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tv   After Words  CSPAN  June 22, 2015 12:00am-1:04am EDT

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of coming-of-age and the system. the way that i see your story is that it is also a powerful call to action. it's a in very powerful ways that women's rights and that the
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women's agency and women's security are powerful freedoms and liberties, and that is your call to action. the way that i read your book is at three levels and there are three major ideas that i would like you to speak up. it is that meaningful progress on the democratic side that cannot be made while women are being devalued and dehumanized. second is the critical debate that has opened up a pandora's box, but that the revolution is not complete and that the unfinished business of the revolution can only be completed
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if there is a second revolution when it is taken whole. but third i find that the body of your work as the many articles and many speeches in the manifesto in the way forward acquire to action that sets out an extremely powerful and profound ways of mapping for the way forward. you called for when men to dig deep into their own traditions to find powerful tools for the feminist action. this is not a western position. this is something that find its roots in our own cultures and
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traditions. you called for the engagement and see powerfully when you speak of the parliament. who told her when women benefit, men benefit and that is your powerful call to action. you also have built safe spaces for what i call dangerous ideas bringing women together in a conversation about the ideas they could not have expressed a thought for your mobilizing. and then finally, it is a legislative manifesto. you call for the legal reform especially in the family law but what led to this book and those that i think are the most
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powerful ideas that you have colluded to. >> thank you for the kind introduction. i am especially glad that we are speaking to each other at the moment in the history that has led to the moment because i think if we look across the world today we see the countries as diverse and different as china, turkey, afghanistan, the united states, the middle east and north africa going through various instances of saying enough and when i mentioned china i think they were detained and five remain in detention because of the feminist protest. in afghanistan she is lynched for her views even though according to the traditions they say to the men most importantly
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no weatherman will touch her in reference to a woman that is raped and murdered and here in the united states in response to the police brutality we saw three women who after the murder of trayvon martin started the hash tag #blacklivesmatter. be they women of the middle east or the u.s. commanded the example women in india and hundreds and thousands protested. and there's the issue of women of color speaking out because i think that is historically in silence to the combination of things don't talk about these because it's going to make us look bad or because they give ammunition to the races to use against men so we have a double
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burden to bear and that is for the middle east and everywhere but these are the reasons that we fight as people of color and women of color and so i think that it is seeing ourselves around the world now rising up and speaking out saying we will no longer be silent but we will also fight that racism is really important because i think that is a point that i wanted to make very early on in my book that i would fight for right wing outside of my community and use the words against my name and i will never outweigh myself one against the other grade so i think that was an important groundwork to late for my book and that was one very important reason to write the book and i was willing to build upon the essays i that i wrote in foreign policy and 2012 cold right of the heater because as much as the support as i got in the
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criticism and some of the criticism claimed that it is generalizing and i was just being hysterical and exaggerating and i felt strongly about the issues. i've been a writer for more than 20 years and so i decided i would spend more time i would get more statistics and layout of this map of misogyny if you like in the middle east and north africa. so if you can look at the country specifically and at focus on the issue that was painful because clearly the global gender gap that the world bank has come up with shows my part of the world about the middle east and the parts of the global gender index and then i think what's important for me was the need to start speaking my story because in november of 2011 there is a writer that makes the messages work and it's
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a a waste of an way of celebrity survival and is a gift to myself i would dye my hair bright red and get tattoos on both arms as a way of reclaiming my body because i had been sexually assaulted and contractors in my left arm and my right hand and is a part of that when i couldn't write for three months because my arms were in a cast it was also a way of physical change that i imposed on myself and i utilized by wasn't just a writer i was an activist. i never called myself an activist before. i had just been a writer. so i thought the revolution which is a sensual to succeed i must be honest and open with my own personal stories as i have been in my fight against the bovard regime and political islam and all the things that i believe contribute in the middle
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east and north africa. so in my book i take on the idea of being a feminist who waited for a long time to have sex and within my feminism i grappled these sensitive issues because ivy leaves but if we don't offer these it can be very difficult to tell. it's like going out to protest. i don't think it's right to tell someone go and protest. and so in order to help other women share their stories i'm offering my nasty way of saying here is mine. >> host: it is a deeply affecting story in a very personal story set against the backdrop of changing the middle east and south africa and adding that at such a powerful level in the book and this book comes at a very important moment in it is 20 years after the conference
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when the women of the world convened and when it occurred by the secretary who are a clinton electrified the world and became the clarion co. to action. so i see this moment as a transformative moment and your book comes at the time when it marks the anniversary and it's also the time that we are celebrating 15 years after the security council resolution 1325 which called the women to be at the peacemaking table and ask you articulated earlier in the middle east, they have the representation in in parliament and in the legislative bodies and one of the reasons why women are devalued is because they are not at the table to draft the law.
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another point that you made is to look at women in their full diversity. there is no monolithic women. and i think that richness that we saw when the revolution was passed women that were not unveiled professionals activists, mothers young teenagers galvanize coming together with a magical passive moment. and what i'd like to do is harness the power of the differences among women and that there is no single story that defines women and we need to be careful about the danger of a single story. i want you to speak a little bit about your opposition to and i
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know you've had many debates because of the role of personal choice and i want you to speak about the nuances you set out very clearly the reason why they are veiled and i want you to touch deep into something that you speak to and how when you met with women in the party how they said that they have reaped the benefits of in other words
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this proletarian who said when women fight, then benefit. so there's the unity and the cohesion that is so important to forge a common cause. so given how much we value that i am a little concerned that your message might be misinterpreted as a divisive message, so i wanted to speak to the. >> that. >> i appreciate that because it comes out to every discussion. i still obsess over what it means.
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when we went to saudi arabia i mentioned in the book how it was the opposite. one of the things i try to explain in my book which is an influential country in the region as you know it's like a pendulum that runs back and forth and represents the conservatives in the large societies. it's important to lay the groundwork. it isn't just from the political state but also the regime in the region who claimed to be secular and yet they have the conservative interpretation to fight the political opponent. so in that atmosphere it's often that which becomes the canvas of this message as having taken off
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my headscarf along time ago to write this but they took us to it and said what is my position today? i'm on record for years now so i wanted to take a position and when i decided what my position today was committed was the position against what i call the modesty culture. i connected here in the united states that is promoted by the christian right wing especially in the southern states and i make that connection because it's important for people to realize that globally, our bodies have always been used to make political and religious messages and the reason i reject the modesty cochair and purity culture is because they both are governed and claim that they give a voice in either being modest or pure but it's a choice
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that there are asked to make, and given that i don't believe that it's something that is feminist and i don't believe that it's something that promotes the message that i draw which is a feminist revolution. and i also reached the stage in my own kind of struggle with modesty and where we stand together and it'll always support something another woman that just because another women did it. i think it's important to realize where my feminism kind of because i was there are women politicians, margaret thatcher for example whose politics are very different than mine and i will not support her just because she is a woman. this is one instance. we all believe that we should leave the fighting aside. the example was considered to be conservative and if i had known this quality that we wanted in the constitution would benefit
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us all not only would we all agree that all of them reached out so i think that this is a message here where our feminist common points we can work on and so once again from the islamic or the christian point of view i can't find the feminist common points, because i believe [inaudible] but having said that i started a support group for girls and women back in 2013. and one of the things we try to do through the support group is to offer the space for those that are struggling with this idea because as you said from the religious obligations and some because they want to be identified. some are forced into some fight their family. and also this saddens me deeply and it was one of the reasons i did is to escape harassment on
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the street. so in the support group since the revolution began it created their own moment it over the past two years in egypt i've known at least ten women who decided to remove their veils because of that connection and the question that it inspired in them what does that mean for you personally and she wrote after it began she decided she couldn't liberate without uprooting herself first so there were moments i could definitely work across the line with that i struggled with the concept of choice because i think as i said they never have to make this choice and we have reached the situation in the middle east and north africa where it's quite different than here in the country 90% of women i can't see the concept of traits exist
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because social pressure caused such a burden some of them prefer just to be left alone siu have to shape up that environment and say why are we unfairly burdening them. >> this is an important debate and conversation and when you say that they are often the battleground on which many of the political battles are fought you are absolutely right. when are often sacrificed in their family's their families honor whether it is in the middle east without african region or sebaceous or south america or here in the united states. and what is so powerful about your book and about your article is that it is not unique to the
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region. you make that clear and you use that as a way to open up the debate in the universal issue and that is what makes it so timely and what makes your book so important. going back to the revolution and the importance of women's equality being affirmed family law is the litmus test upon which the quality is affirmed judged and tested. and in the middle east and north african region we see this is what is most politically contested by the reform of the family law. >> as leading to social change
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especially in the areas of the personal law and family law. but starting with one of the most but i think are the supreme law of the land the 2,014th constitution we see that constitution enshrined in the equality and that is a good step, positive first step but what we see in the constitution article ten is that instead of the family is the nucleus of the society and they founded the principles of religion and what is missing is that it should be the principles of the quality. and it also goes on to state the state's obligation is to protect motherhood but what about protecting father of? "who's the weaker -- the
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importance of joint appearance in and also calls for the state protecting the family reconciliation policies for women. but what about protecting the reconciliation policies for men? to pass in the family at home and when the constitution itself affirms the transgender equality then goes onto daylight the transitions is problematic. so can you speak a little bit about that? >> guest: this is the perfect example of the trifecta that we fight in the middle east and north africa and that is the state of the street and the home because what i talk about in the patriarchy i don't just mean it's what we experience in egypt and i don't just mean that it's the state using the constitution as you said to convene the brotherhood is and fatherhood and that it's used to only
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benefit men and something that goes back to the home. they are working together and that is the revolution and calling for. they want to make it clear that they are working in unison not just to rise up against the bark in the revolution that that regime got everybody and we recognize it is a traffic to specifically as women. for decades it's good for everyone, men and women. and those that he picked up the constitution shows that we are unaware of this because it's the burden of motherhood and balancing work and home life. from either which country we need everyone involved. we have two paychecks coming in but how are we supposed to do this for both the work and family and man and i get so many
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questions from those that write to me and to see the incidences and they say i don't want to be that man. so what are we doing in order to encourage them to be different for future generations where the state is concerned? we are not giving anything because all you're doing is putting them in a box and saying you are responsible for keeping the homecoming event that you don't have to work because often times you have to keep it outside the home but nothing is done. that is the same state but turned a blind eye to the protesters such as myself and others. that is the same state that holds no one accountable when women are sexually harassed on the street and that is the same state but also knows from the earliest age from genital mutilation or cutting.
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and so all of those work in unison. the first time we put someone on trial for this crime was last year in the countries where they are horrific. they have been subjected to cutting so the state knows and they are not unaware of the misogyny that happened. but they did nothing because the state itself as the socialistic and so in order to writing unpack those points that you mentioned and to realize that they have extreme damaging effects on everybody, we must look at that trifecta and focus on all three because if we focus on the political level what we see is one that faces another and nothing beyond has improved in egypt. >> succumb as a result of the states in the area to protect women especially in the public space, what we see happening is
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that women have mobilized to create the alternatives and to create ways of addressing violence and harassment against women. can we speak a little bit about that because i think what is fascinating or these ways in which they've harnessed different tools for social media, galvanizing to develop the harassment which has become something used across the region to locate areas in the spaces where harassment is taking place and where harassment is so pervasive. so can you speak of some of those more grassroots state action that are being taken in the middle east? >> guest: the state action is the social revolution but i'm holding up and saying what this is exactly what we are working on that we will inevitably fear
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it's going nowhere and there are many examples you mentioned which have been around from before the revolution. we encourage women to call and text message coming and we've also had things like the projects where we certainly could because we had a tricounty in protest that is almost impossible to protest and when we have the protests in egypt we have groups of young women and men who go out in the street and just for the sake of protecting they were not there to protest were taken to police stations they were just there to extricate from any instance because in this fight over that dominated the public space one of the things the revolution did was pushed some of them to go out there and fight for that
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space to remain male dominated that wouldn't break it down and said this is our space, too and these groups went out and they were there just from these assaults. then you also have those that are using very controversial ways of addressing this issue of how they've become battlegrounds and a couple of examples one is a young woman that posed nude in her appearance living room. he's an chilly these in chile these revolutions are about consent and agency. we often hear this word consent. what does it mean when it comes to my buddy who owns and decides come if my family has the right to cut me for no other reason than to control my sexuality, who owns my body is either from religious or social pressure i must cut from head to toe in who is the state itself entirely
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through so-called virginity tests as march of 2009 against the revolutionary. so she really shook up the society and liberals and conservatives because she was saying i know in my body and she wasn't even protesting on the street. this was in her parents living room and the amount of hate and pushback showed that she had touched a soft spot in the underbelly and i give an example whether they are visual or for example in lebanon to speak out against domestic violence and also the hypocrisy of speaking out against sending photos of those that have been leaked online and they begin to ask the question what is more outrageous to us a woman's body that was portrayed or a woman with a
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black eye because her husband had to beat her up with no legal protection. so you see they are involved in very creative ways and this is to say what is the content consent and agency mean in the time of the revolution. >> you said it so perfectly. it brings back memories of that magical moment in the revolution but we also saw that they failed to demand their rights in the revolution and as it unfolded was the noblest. i've watched with a sense of trepidation because they are not demanding equal rights and at that time point what happened was they allowed the men to own
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that space and allow them to develop a political agenda that says that democracy first for women's rights second. and what happened soon after in the aftermarket is that ironically when women came marching back they were subject to the testing and electric shock and the fact i think was the most shameful moment of the revolution. can you speak to some of the ways women are continuing to address the failure of the revolution both at the political level and at the personal level is taking the revolution.com and although i completely understand what you are trying to say we
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cannot draw between the public space and private space because the greatest project into the greatest mission was to break down that artificial dichotomy between the public and private space, so what is considered the family as a whole. can you speak about the ways they continue to push the frontiers? >> host: would've revolutions were taken and projected that should have been a moment of another revolution. actually there were moments when they were leading the protests to say this has to end. we are trying this upside down. we are destroying the patriarchy
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and it was because it didn't happen that is one of the reasons i wrote my essay because i couldn't believe that in this revolution this could happen. for me it was similar to the moment in 2002 because the morale of the police wouldn't let them out. that should have been a moment of revolution. there were so many bombings when you could actually draw the line. there was the moment when a 16-year-old girl swallowed rat poison. that created a sense that given even though they didn't have the uprising that we did, they could protest this law that allowed them to escape and that has been repealed. so in that sense, they protested because a young woman committed suicide under the circumstances
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that even though it had been repealed, the actual change on the ground and get to settle down but it's a start because the legislative change and the grassroots change in the middle somewhere so we should have had a revolution for gender and we didn't. the way that i see it continuing because we realize they had been doing this they would go home to get the right to vote in the revolution. how long in the united kingdom. and we were also told this is not the time. we have political prisoners, we are training to get rid trained to get rid of the rule and political islam. he said they are basically telling us to wait and leave and that it will never happen and that is something that we have
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always been told that until we fix everything and then you get the right and that is an up or down equation. how will anything be fixed? we have to fix the injustice. so very much from the ground up and i see outside of that i've seen so many other examples of things like that and again the idea of safe space where they can go and get counseling for depression or whatever ails them. i've heard of women that get together and have the political groups of ways of trying to galvanize their own political involvement and i've heard of women that have become artists that go out because they've
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become so well known that this idea of breaking down the line between public and private has absolutely happened and that is why even when the system there's this perfect assault that i mentioned in egypt they continue to go out because as they were saying this is ours as well and one of the things that they have been so wonderfully even though they hadn't have the revolution in saudi arabia they would break the ban on driving and that is essentially what it is. i'm a big fan of civil disobedience. the longer i'm just to be broken but i see them get into their cars with the support of the relatives and often nothing would happen on the street the only people to get upset or that regime the regime and the force and that gives them the rights right to this idea that it is exceptional and not ready to keep the.
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if the clerics that are not ready. they go and build them out of the police station and they're showing us they are ready so i think of these with these examples, be they civil disobedience women's groups, counseling groups, all of those are messages from those in my part of the world and the more radical example is the human rights defender who used to be the head of the country's human rights group who started the campaign so taking those that were important in the middle east and north africa because it is such a subject for women at the revolution is about consenting the agency and its about the ownership of our
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freedom to go out there and see this space is ours. >> your book paints the regimes that are changing and doubling. and i think that by doing that, you are making those connections to the women all over the world but are pushing the boundaries and who are pushing the frontiers in the spaces they occupy and the politics and the legislative default. and with that, i do want to acknowledge the fact that because of the galvanizing into what the revolutions that are taking place slowly there is what i would call a creeping change taking place. for the first time coming and i think that they're make in the around the world the balance
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against women to so it's been raised to the constitutional level. but in the meantime there is the sense that security constitutes national security. and that is why we constantly hear issues of political prisoners and free speech issues of the freedom of movement and then women's issues. they are somehow separated from the penalty of rights on social and economic areas. so i think what you have done is to break down those barriers that are not only harmful but artificial and do not have to be the reality. and i think that's why your book formulates a call to action not
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just in the middle east but around the world. and that is why given the power and the call to action that is being heard now and you see it very clearly this must be set. said. we have been silent for so long that you will no longer be muffled and he will speak on behalf of women all over the world and i want to thank you and honor you for doing that. but i want your message to be heard and risk needed and that is why i worry that because of the way in which you choose to send your message it may not be heard by the women that want this message to rekindle the
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revolution and to make a difference. so, can you tell me why in your book your policy article you use words that can sometimes be assumed do you think that these words can be divisive because your method is one of unity and one of transformation and one of solidarity across the differences that we've been talking about. >> i believe that sometimes we must shake things in the times of revolution and also not the respective policy that claims we must be nice and handle things. so kind of finding those places
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yes my words do come across very strongly sometimes. i've been called a radical feminist, all those words that women traditionally have been called because we refuse to be silenced and because we want to provoke. so i do recognize that my words sometimes .-full-stop very sharp and i want them to sound sharp because this is a moment in history but if we do not shake our societies up it will just again become wait wait and nothing will be achieved and i love my country and my part of the world and unless i turn to this now recovered late to shake things up label is a magical opportunity to reform and transform our society to revolutionize our society which more. they don't shake things up as much. i think in order to get to the reformed stage there are people like me that shake things up on
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the edge and i think at the time also where we have extreme right-wing groups like those to whom they escape their families and go to these murderous thugs that is not polite but it's not nice. the injustice of that with right-wing political islamists who when they ran the campaign this is a revolutionary egypt it couldn't be shown on the poster. that i consider to be incredibly divisive and i'm just an incredibly offensive. in order to write against that, i must be on the other end of the spectrum and i must in the hope that i create enough of the
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space for others to move and be as provocative as i am and what everybody wants to be but in order to stand up to what i consider this emotionally offensive and dangerous element of the altar conservative right-wing in my community where i come from i must be equally radical but on the other side and that shows that we generally are diverse. the outside world looks at muslims generally it looks at us as either terrorists or the extremely conservative. we are not about to be anything else. one of the things i try to do for the writings in my talk is sometimes we are provocative and sometimes not so provocative and in the name of humanity, this spectrum of behavior that
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everybody else is allowed and one of the things i'm trying to recognize that is especially provocative now is to talk about desire because i talk about pleasure and desire at the time that you have groups that are systematically holding them as sex slaves and i do that because one of the best things that we have done in egypt in the violence is that we have broken the taboo for many to see against that which is great and in that sense it is leading the region. but if we just stop together that is very damaging and we reclaim the desire that in our heritage in the middle east and north africa we have written by women in the past so what i'm saying is this is my heritage. i am not imitating anybody. i want to bring it back into michael church at the heritage that very much is celebrated
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independent, outspoken and save it this is a part of our spectrum and we have the right and as those that insist that it's about consent and agencies is to talk about those whose genitals are cut for no reason. >> we need to reclaim that history that makes us so rich and in that same way what i want you to speak to is the way in which you write about the failing of women in the crime and punishment we wrote what we put on our head is how we introduce ourselves to the world and to some extent that is what
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it does. it's also about identity politics and you have been very careful about the nuanced ways in which women choose to wear the veil and you also just mentioned what you would like to do is to see a project where you can work across those divisions and hold hands across the dividing lines. and we live in a time of great challenge is to put it's also the time that allows us to forge connections. somehow what you going forward seat yourself working with a party member that comes in with
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a secular agenda and the progressive agenda in the constitution as a project that was shared by both men and women and because they were at the table and what we saw was a different set of constitutional rights but also in china the positions that haven't had been in trying to the table. so i see the value of working together and not being obsessed with what they choose to wear. and i know that if you transform the neck which it goes beyond what we wear because after all
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even though ... what do though it says what we wear on our head is very much the way we introduce the results ourselves to the world also what matters is under the hat you wear on your head so i want you to speak to the ways in which you take the common good of not just women but men because this is not just a women's issue and to speak to that very clearly the human security issue and we can only create a revolution society if they joined us because it is the greater good of all of humankind. i want your message to be heard and to be claimed and embraced by all. and in so doing i don't want them to be scared by headlines.
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but in setting out to be one are you alienating those that you want on your side? >> that is one that i've wrestled with and that we have developed because i used to be a reporter up until 2000 and then i switched to opinion writing. every now and then someone would suggest i put it down a little bit and i would have more people that would listen. but that isn't my style. my stylist to be the strident feminist writer and i recognize that could cost me. but also recognizing the necessity of that because at the university library that i attended, i am in never first discovering the journal and
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picking them up and they had put them in the library and i remember that it terrified me. it terrified me because i understood that once i opened the doors and i began to be a feminist, it was going to change everything in my life. so i can imagine they would see the message at night. as a 19-year-old woman who had the scarf at the age of 16 but they didn't have the power to. i didn't feel empowered enough. as that 19-year-old woman struggling with how much power do they have, and over the
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control of my body someone gave me their shoulder to stand on and you can do it. it was terrifying so read my book even if it is frightening and shakes you up you said in a way that you feel you can right now but understand to understand what i'm trying to do in the book is to show the journey of a young woman of thought she had very little power and then eventually took on more and more as she began her own personal revolutions when i try to do in the book is give snippets of my own life story and a memoir as i give up the greater political picture to show that i struggled with ease. i wasn't always like this this outspoken feminist. i struggled for eight years to take off the headscarf but i have chosen that no longer
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wanted. so it was necessary to give them the provocative headlines because sometimes we are in distress and feel like we have very little power and at the time i said i want to be like them. i want to be like them. it took me a while but i actually got there. >> host: in your own transformation under the awakening is what makes the book so profoundly rich and profoundly enduring to me. and the introspection with which you write is a struggle. they were conflicted and the ways in which the society and family and community was fascinating to ways in which they both supported view but also supported you in a way that undermined your agency. you know you speak about the family member that once said
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she's not married now that she will find a husband because she has the veil and that coordination with orality, with manageability is a very troubling one. what is next for you? >> i would like to write a book that expands on the message of global feminism that connects us because in 2011 i became a u.s. citizen. i lived in the u.s. from 2000 and i drew the parallel between the culture in the middle east and south africa and here and i fight the muslim brotherhood in the conservative message that the regime's have used to fight them and so it's quite the conservatism here of the right wing that has taken to the brotherhood of the united states and so i am working on a book of
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essays that connects the different parts of the world i lived in and it makes those connections between the culture and they command they lived in jerusalem for the correspondent from 1997 to 1999 and the way they live their lives is very similar to the politics of how it's used against women to define modesty and purity in many parts of the world and another thing i wanted to do in the book on the connections is to travel to other countries in africa outside of the middle east and north africa and also parts of south asia because i think we learn a lot when we share best practices especially as global women because when
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when these talk about the right of the feminism that works in the right context doesn't always work in our context. so, i want to learn from my fellow african feminists and my fellow south asian feminists and i would love to get her to be able to find the best ways that our communities have fought for example. there's a book that there is a book that sets global feminism and looks at how we basically stand up to the way that our bodies and agencies are too often conscript by politics and religion. >> host: i want to take a moment to separate your future now because this transnational idea sharing as well as what i call the good practices, creative practices that work across a bug geographic tradition is what is most needed at this moment in time. earlier in the morning you spoke about a young woman who had
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succumbed to her wounds just a couple of years ago to barely, profoundly acutely moving with a different attorney going public saying if my daughter were if my wife had either extramarital relations or premarital sexual relations i wouldn't hesitate to take her to my farm and burn her alive. so what you call misogyny exists in different parts of the world and i think it is coming together and it is a powerful,
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powerful next step for you. and you even have so much to share with your sisters and south asia in south asia and latin america and africa in the united states as well as much to learn from each other. that said, i want to take a moment to ask you about ways in which you will engage not just locally, nationally and regionally, but at a global level. i want your experiences and narratives and stories to have an impact on international creation. so the convention on the discrimination against women could the final recommendation is about the engagement in the post-conflict and peace and the
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importance of being at the table in peace building in the transitional justice. so i want your word to shave and enrich that discourse at the global level" view as the agent of change can do to take your stories to not just the grassroots communities but to the governmental organizations and encourage them in the reservations that they have made. as you probably know article nine of the citizenship article 16 of those areas in which the middle east paid reservations to and in order to take the revolution hold, you have to remove those reservations on women's agencies and citizenship
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it's the most fundamental issue and the rights to inherit equal guardianship and rights to make position are so salient as a friend of mine said how can the heads of state because of their own family. >> absolutely. >> you are absolutely right. one of the aspects in a way that the united nations has allowed the government to get away with it is the consequence is that we see on the ground. ..
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>> >> thank you for the work you have done. >> thank you very much
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>> host: "we live in the shadow" is the name of the of book professor elaine bell kaplan is the author. what was the experiment you conducted? >> wanted to interview kids that try to achieve something like actors care programs program is the neighborhood academic initiative here on the campus that dedicated the low income students for college and also introduce students who were part

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