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tv   After Words  CSPAN  August 14, 2015 8:57pm-9:58pm EDT

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house. congressionally the republicans did decent in 2012 and in 204 a republican blow out. so if we look at it. it is not so much democrat and republican. there is a view of politics have have held and it mirrors and reflects the values i share in the book and that is this. for the pract -- practitioner of politics everything is horizontal. but to the people that decide the election, the people that don't live every day on politics, elections are vertical. and the way they vote is not left or right. it is up or down. and they ask will this person take us up or this person take us down. will he make it better? or make it worse? >> host: i hope 2016 is a great
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gre year for republicans, i hope it as a great early for you and i hope you let me know in a couple months what you decide. thanks so much. >> on the next washington journal, how colorado is dealing with the toxic spill in the river there earlier this week. and talking about near collisions with drones and helicopters. and we will give you a chance to weigh in. washington journal is live every day at 7 a.m. eastern on c-span2. ...
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>> host: dr. carson will come. i getting the best way to
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start is to delve into you before restore your book. you have a very inspirational story. >> i grew up in detroit and a couple years in boston. >> >> but my mother and any
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successive have had i have to contribute to god and my mother. and '03 seeking wisdom coming up to look around you and i noticed the homes that she claimed people did not watch tv. and they read a lot of books. and somehow it clicked in her mind. she impose that. >> did you have a favorite tv show? >> q. did not invade a tv guide. but basically restricted us to a three tv programs per week we had to read two books apiece and give day book reports but we didn't know she could read.
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we found out later in high-school. she got her ged this savior i graduated from high school. -- the same year i graduated from high school. but something happened. i used to admire the smart kids. but as i started reading all of us headed and the teacher would ask the question and i knew the answer and i got to excited that i was reading a book i went from being the dummy to the top of the class in a year-and-a-half. >> my dad made me read "profiles in courage". >> but i went on from there
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they start to read about plants and rocks and pretty soon i could identify any rock. i did not realize i was a scientist. >> host: now i make the connection. >> one day the teacher said does anybody know what this is? i raised my hand and nobody raised their hands. they could not believe. this will be hilarious. >> host: were you known as a jokester? >> guest: i could not possibly know the answer so that it would be done and i said obsidian. everybody to the space shed the laughing or impressed and the teacher said yes. i explained how it was
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formed and they were shocked if i was more shocked than anybody because it dawned on me i wasn't stupid in the teacher invited me to come to the lab and started the with the rock collection in fifth grade. i started to look through the microscope to discover protozoa. mr. jake. >> host: and never forget. how long ago? >> guest: more than 50 years ago but i look back and this was several years ago with "good morning america" and they wanted to trace my roots and he was still there put balding and potbelly. [laughter] but i wanted to show the
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original -- the animals because of the fish in the tarantula he said we had to get rid of them. >> host: your father? >> not strong the last day i saw him as the day i got married. >> host: what about the second family day you have a relationship? not at all? >> guest: no. but i looked at the big picture of my mother tried to make up for all of that and my father was involved in with drugs and alcohol and women. nothing wrong with women but you can have more than one. [laughter] but in retrospect i was devastated as a kid, and now i realize that perhaps that
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would not have been the best thing for me. the same thing i would be doing to bring back fiscal responsibility. a lot of people played the unions but actually i don't. able clad the stranglehold the cruz for the golden age. >> the members wanted better deal but they have all one year or five-year plan. they do is they kept conceding eventually there would be a problem but they did it anyway because they knew there would have a golden parachute then be long gone. >> host: see you blame the executive is just as much. >> it is what i see around
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the country thinking it is somebody else's problem. >> host: you have a spark of the enthusiasm. have you been surprised it is coming from conservatives ? you assume that you were? i get the impression you're not always a conservative in your mind? >> guest: like most people growing up in detroit when i went off to college a was a radical. i went to yale.@ >> host: what is a radical at yale? [laughter] there are degrees. maybe if you went to berkeley. there was of black panther rally but that is the way it was at that time the
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radicalism was accepted at that point more than a logical person and a conservative i am not that fond of labels that most of the problems are easily solvable if we could throw away those labels. >> host: for mayors races that is the case but who was getting stuff done? cavuto have the baggage read now then you go to yale when did you decide you wanted to be a dr.? >> guest: i decided that at eight years old i love the mission stories.
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with great personal sacrifice with mental physical and spiritual healing. that is what i will do. but when i turned 13 i decided i wanted to be rich so i decided i wanted to be a psychiatrist. [laughter] >> host: you thought they made more money? >> they lived in a big fancy mansion on television and. on most tv programs if you saw a psychiatrist. [laughter] so i started to read technology every but he was bringing with their problems. and i majored in psychology in college and had it luminary professors that
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medical school everybody has special poughkeepsie and the talents. i started to think of my life and i had tremendous sigh he and coordination. >> host: as a surgeon and that is key t1a and the ability to think in three dimensions looked -- dimensions which is essential be king george dealing with a nebulous mass. so you have to keep in mind of the tracts even the you can see them so if you don't have three -- good three-dimensional skills. so what i performed extremely well but i started with a crane operator right after college. but the fact they've with
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the me do that after one day it was a little scary i said they see something in me. that was a summer job a lot of others did not get to do that. but as i thought about that a lot of people thought that was strange with a history of the world. but i said this is my talent and where i will go. >> host: basically the of one rotation where people can identify the plastic surgeon rotation in some way because you have to know they are precise and artistic at the same time. is there some truth to that?
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>> i think there is a lot of my career developed with the plastic surgeons. >> host: and you're not practicing right now. do you miss it? >> guest: there are a lot of things in the process that are changing and most people chose medicine so you can figure out so there would be a kid from bolivia. who did not have resources. >> but nobody said anything. a the hospital had the big enough war chest it was okay
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but if the insurance companies predict how much they would pay at hospitals along there had a margin. so we one tomb to make medicines fun again. i went to be excited to go to work. >> i think they should be well compensated. i know a lot of rich people. >> host: who should be paid more? >> guest: i would say it is a relevant question. [laughter] -- irrelevant. they should be paid for what they do. to recognize that doctors
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spend a very long time getting to be doctors. they go to college, medical school, in turn ship, residency. >> host: arguably it is 12 years just postgraduate work to be a practicing neurosurgeon. >> guest: it takes a lot of time with a lot of sacrifice. and working extraordinary hours. you have the tour to issue everybody thinks everything is supposed to be perfect dealing with high-risk real estate. that i had a problem with health reforms to designate for reform. >> host: your christianity
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is strong but science and faith sometimes collide. ted is a very scientific mind. some people say that does not compute. there is a difference. >> but the difference is but there tends to be more substance but in the name of religion a lot of silly stuff. for those who have made deep relationship with god. >> i actually believe that
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science and faith can be compelled. it is interesting discussions with nobel laureates so that god created heaven and earth. that someone of your intelligence said they came from nothing. >> we don't understand anything so so you tell me that it explodes now we have a system to the point we can see a comet coming and the earth rotates on an access. >> if you have been of
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explosions eventually one of them would be the perfect explosion. >> so if i put a hurricane through junkyard over billions of years eventually there'll be a perfectly formed 747? that is what you are saying basically. i never problem with that. that requires more fate. >> so then you would answer? >> guide created day have been. i find that much easier to believe but to recognize it takes somebody like charles darwin who started in a seminary but if we got -- she goes off to the galapagos islands.
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will that is the evolution of. the '02 years to be very spiritual but those who had peaks have been enough to extract so what i actually believe with the ability to adapt to the environment. >> host: so you believe it natural selection. attwood college darwinism but the creatures with the ability to adapt to an environment. >> the earth? >> i don't know the answer
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to that. >> host: i heard some people say one day. but we don't know. >> host: you say 6,000 years? >> nothing tells us howl o the earth is it could be billions but also i believe the reason god is god is he can do stuff we cannot do. absolutely. >> host: so your scientific education? >> i never had an instance where my belief in god comforted my ability. >> absence of malice a
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surgeon with the guide complex them supposedly that is a stereotyping. is that of their hollywood portrait? >> no question some surgeons have fairly large egos you don't get people people otherwise so it does select that kind of people but i doubt incredibly nice and
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>> >> we can argue about how can we intelligently take care of the earth? >> you can prepare for that. looked at new york city or new jersey. you have to make public policy decisions based on what you think is coming. that is the importance to figure this out. >> but it is also important not to get overly involved in paranoia. our epa as far as i am considered should work in conjunction with our research facilities and industry to say how can we best utilize our natural
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resources and at the same time respecting our environment rather than say we are not developing this? i don't think that is a wise use of resources. >> remember the concern of the ozone layer? but basically the entire aerosol industry changed. to problem with low and behold industry adopted. >> host: so you do believe we should pursue some of these? >> guest: absolutely we need to take a balanced approach that as you saw from reading the book i say that just about everything
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remember i said at the national prayer breakfast for a goal to fly high and straight it needs to wings. left wing and the right wing everything lopsided my way or the highway you will crash. >> host: you are a highly intellectual person you would to the best school and concerned about you need is some? >> the reason there is a class of people that you see in universities who believed they are the beacon of light for everything and everyone who does not agree that only do they now want to hear them but they don't want anybody to hear them if they have a reputation and they want to destroy it. where does that come from?
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unless you believe you are the cat's meow. >> host: so let me ask you when did you for say i am following this? when did you make that transition from scientist and highly acclaimed surgeon? i don't know if there was a dramatic moment. for the last 20 or 30 years that we're talking about these issues for decades. you will see a program laid out there. i am not johnny-come-latelies but what change me is the national prayer breakfast in 2013.
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because i spoke my mind and why i was concerned about it i love the nation that we live in nevada want to see it destroyed. >> host: you have been interesting challenges in chapter six. this is a concern of how people consume too much of one side really watch one channel here or there but if you are from a different political party with a rational defense of the president's health care plan? >> guest: that is easy. everybody should have health insurance. we need to find out way to make that possible.
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since we know a lot and have a lot of bright people we could figure out better than the private sector as it is very benign. >> host: stop there. so what parts of the plan were good parts and? . .
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because healthcare is something we all need. why why can't we work on this together. on one party and we have an unanimous disagreement, all your going to do is create rancourt. you're not quintet cooperation for anything. why would you do that? he said you're probably right but this is why, because it's politics. that's the very problem will take these important issues and we make them into politics and we just get polarizing. a wise man once at a house divided against itself cannot win. >> anywise man. >> wide we have to keep doing
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this? why do i call that book one nation? because i think it's in our unity not in our division. we the american people. >> it sounds like you would have done some health reform. you would have made the first goal, what you're saying that you like is the insurance reform industry. it was the next step of expanding and get universal access is where the collision happened. >> and we can get universal access because we spent twice as much per capita as other nations. it's not that we haven't put adequate resources so to think we have to put more money into it is not right. we we need to think about how do we design it. >> that's why identified the health savings account because
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they have control of what they're going to spend your money on. >> you have an idea in here you would say from birth to death. a healthcare savings account. >> it's funded through a variety of different ways, people who work for the employees, people who are with the same money we spend with medicaid for them. >> that were going to the health savings account. >> yes and it doesn't you don't lose it if you don't use it. there no limits on it so you're having a birthday party, it there's a number of ways and eight accumulates throughout your lifetime. i also give people the ability. >> of the european countries basically, bigger beginning from birth to money they hand you money for child care, would you put some government money and this hsa in the beginning? >> people who need government money put in. >> you would automatically start
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out with maybe $5000. >> people who need money for this. but even if we take all of the people who are needy in this country and we put money into their hsa they're still going to fall short of what were spending now is an efficient program. so here's the key thing, people begin to be responsible, you need to have something done you're going to think remember when the food stamp program for started. a lot of people said you can't do that because people will be irresponsible, there's no way they will be able to use those appropriately, though go out and buy stuff the first five days and then starve the rest. but no you didn't have to put limits on it. people learn themselves and people learn that i'm to buy some hamburger and
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some hamburger helper, they learned how to stretch it out and make it work. they would do the same thing if they had control of their health savings account. that's what would bring the whole medical system into the free market economic form to control price and quality. >> it sounds like you would make a argument that hospitals are as much of a problem as anything because hospitals will charge some ridiculous, my father had a disease and my mother would go through line by line up by double things and send it to the insurance companies to let them know. they were charging crazing about some mondays because they know someone is paying for. is because. >> vick is a of this may only be $2000 but if they put it down the insurance company will pay them 300 therefore if you put 20000, maybe they will pay us 3000. it's all game. >> is a total game and how do you bring reform to the hospital. it's a case where i think the administration, the hospitals
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are the big that's a tough one to turn back. i ended up working with the insurance company not the hospital. >> but remember if you are in charge through your hsa, you're not going to go to the hospital that does that right. you're going to go to the other one which is going to make this one start acting like this on. that's where the free market work. >> you think the only way to truly reform the healthcare system is to get out of the insurance business. >> while you. >> will you can have all of these artificial influences. >> you're almost advocating for no insurance. >> no. >> like a health savings account would replace that. >> know what i'm saying is for all your routine health, 80% of everything that you're going to have to deal with can easily be paid through your hsa. but you have to remember that people do have it major and catastrophic issues that come up. that's what your insurance is for. that's what it's always should have been four. >> everything should've been
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catastrophic. policies in the 80s and 90s don't exist anymore because they tended to be losers. that's when you get to the big disease the big problem. and you take that other stuff off the insurance. >> correct and remember you sprain your ankle, you think you next three that's coming out of your hsa. you need a a physical exam for new job, hsa. birth control pills, hsa, no hobby lobby. so what happens with not impinging on your major medical what happens to the cost of it. >> well it should come down. >> it comes down dramatically. >> willets live in the real world with insurance companies and hospitals and all these people have gotten rich up. healthcare is one of the fastest grant sectors in the economy and it's considered a moneymaker in a semi private sector. how do you enact your plan in the world we live in?
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>> keep in mind what we're talking about when i'm talking about insurance, it's insurance it all works basically the same way. so the homeowners insurance, if you have a hair a head high deductible this is what happens to the price of it it plummets. if you you want everything taken care of guess what happens, same thing. chapter. >> chapter seven you use the phrase enslaving our children. some of your language that you use is certainly, any of talk about this the politically correct belief on this, but words do matter and it did offend some so why not curtail the major language? >> what would be the seventh of that. >> i think it depends on the point of view, it maybe it's your political opinions that offend them. >> when i think about political correctness i'm talking about not being able to express how
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you actually feel. >> so so enslaving our children, some african-americans would say slavery is awful, to compare the national debt to slavery is doing a disservice. >> what i would say is the whole hypersensitivity thing. a lot of things don't bother people but then someone calm and says, do you did you hear it he says, zero you should be offended about that, oh yeah. >> works really well. >> this is the same stuff that used to go on not the children's playground and the guy would come home and say did you hear what they said about your mama? my my we don't have to deal with that. we have real major problems that we have to deal with. the recent talk about enslaving our young people is because this level of debt, i don't think
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most people can comprehend hens, 17 1/2 trillion dollars, if you try to pay back $18 trillion pay back $18 trillion at $10 million a day it would take you 5000 years. that is an absurd amount of money. the only reason we can sustain that is because the u.s. dollar is the reserve currency of the world. what if we were not? and that's a designation that generally goes with the number one economy in the world which we have been since the 1870s, we, we are going to lose it soon. china is a mess too but they're growing at 67% how much are we going? >> two to three. >> so they are going to pass us up, however i don't believe they're going to become the same kind of force, look at the banking system. >> there's a lot of problems they will have. >> however, here's the issue, they're already talking about it and with other nations to create a basket so instead of the u.s.
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dollar it will be a hodgepodge of things. what what will that do to us? it will rob us, deplete us from the ability to print money. what happens when you can't print money and you have the kind of debt that we have? seventh? seventh think about that for a moment. >> i would ask about race. you talk about political correctness in here. i look at the last 30 years and i think when i grew up we had more honest discussions in the 70s about race that we do today. where were actually afraid to have conversations, something happen someone attacked here pres. and we say were to have a real conversation about race yet we don't. there's a peer there. do you think there's some, do you believe some people are against the president simply because of the color of his skin? >> if you you say some people, i'm sure there's some people who are against the president. >> but is it a. >> i don't think it is a large number of people anymore.
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i do think people are very much influenced by their perceptions. so for instance if someone told you, carson is evil, terrible guy and then you met me, you would interpret everything i did and if someone on the other hand would say he's a really nice guy, he loves everybody and then you say okay i can see that too. so somebody is always looking for racism no matter what you say to them, they're perceiving that is racism. i'm sure there probably has been some somewhere along the line it really has not been a big factor for me. my mother told me some very important she said if you walk into an auditorium full of racist, bigoted people, you
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don't have a problem, they have a problem. they're all going to cringe and wonder if there you're going to sit next to them in your goodness that wherever wherever you want. that's a laugh, let my life. someone has a problem with it in joy, i am more important things to do. >> do you do you think race has benefited you? >> i don't think it's hurt me, i don't think it's benefited me. i think it's a wash. i think particularly in the profession that i have spent my whole life and as a neurosurgeon , i fully recognize early in my career that i come into the room and my eyebrows would kinda grow up and they would say this guys can operate on us, zero well. >> so you did feel a little bit of that. >> i did feel a little but you know by the time i got through talking to them, and here's the problem here is how going to handle it, you would see that
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completely melt away. >> you entered a field that i would argue you entered a perfect place where you want to look at numbers and science numbers that's going to trump everything else. >> a without question and that's a wonderful thing about medicine. there is a procedure that i started which was very controversial, people would complaining and to the president and to the medical dean, up to the ama, but by that time i was able to reveal the numbers and demonstrate not one signal person had die and there is very little to no complication. that ended the controversy. controversy. that wouldn't work in politics. >> people have their own set of facts and it really is a set of half-truths on both sides of the
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question is everybody's grounded a little bit and the truth just enough to defend their position. i want to go to an economic issue you are saying everybody should contribute something. >> i didn't say 10% it could be. >> that was your example. >> but it needs to be proportional, the reason i said 10% is a 10% is because it's very easy to compute. >> fair enough,. >> needs to be whatever it needs to be to support the government but it needs to be proportionate because what you have to recognize is by having this very skewed system with all of these deductibles and things, there are a lot of people who make enormous amounts of money and pay very little in taxes. 10% would be a lot to them. >> for some of them sure, because there's so many ways to high taxes. >> a right and i think that's crazy and we don't have to do that. on the other hand, i believe it's insulting for people who make small amounts of money and
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save poor little thing you don't have to do anything i'll take care of you. i believe if they really stopped and thought about it, it ought to be, even though they would be contributing a lot there still caring their weight. >> let me propose a counter argument here on this group that don't pay any federal income tax, if they go to a casino, if they buy a lottery ticket lottery ticket and in some way all this gaming that we do preys on the poor. they're spending more money funding the schools say in detroit, that decide to go casino gambling, they are putting tax dollars in their pockets, they are putting tax money, there are ways that this group, while they're not writing a check to the federal government they're contributing arguably more money to education in a gaming situation than the rich.
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>> however gaming, gaming that's what were doing is gaming the system with this complex tax system. if we if we have something that's simple and easy to figure out, first of all were going to have a predictable amount of money that were going to bring in. we will know what we need in order to run the county country. the other thing you might've noticed i'm not a big proponent of gigantic government. in 2010 if you took the income of everything who made $69000 above, $5.1 trillion was the federal budget question mark 3.5 billion does that make sense no of course it doesn't so obviously, we need to reduce it. i propose a very simple and fair way to do it. thousands of government employees retire every year,
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don't replace them. you can shift people around but don't replace them. do that for do that for about four years and go down to a manageable size, that doesn't fire anybody and if people are down to a manageable size than they can concentrate on what they're supposed to do. >> and then what you and i both know something happens, like a veterans affair, and a virginia hospital where something isn't getting done and everybody is up in arms and then we find out well they're just what enough people to do this sort to do that. all of these things of the grand scheme of things make sense and then we know the way government and politics work. how do you prevents the politics of the way this town works which is all my gosh, look at this problem with the federal government. were going to have to fix it and everybody democrat or republican will throw money at it. >> but they don't understand the fundamental problem of the va. i work to be a hospital's. wonderful peoples, doctors, nurses, therapist, great people.
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wonderful patients, love them to death. huge amount of proxy between this group in this group. that's that's the problem, get rid of that problem. honestly, there are some things that the veteran hospitals do very well post from access,. >> and you think they should be specialized. >> and i think everybody else. >> i want to end a little more political. which is you used ac c word and i don't use conservative words very often's and that's compromise, 50% of of what you want side and common ground which is a tiny 10% that you both agree on right what's better. in this case this case your advocate katie for comparable lies you want more 5050 here. >> when i talk about compromise i'm talking about compromise in methods, not necessarily in a
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compromise in values and principles. >> this is in chapter ten. >> so when i look at democrat and i look at republicans, except for the fringes we all pretty much want the same thing and we've allowed ourselves to be revved up into this group of by partisans which we really shouldn't, and don't have to be. >> were polarized, there's no doubt i can show the numbers. more people identified as more people identifying as liberals and conservatives, more people have described liberals and conservatives with awful names now and conservatives will do the same thing now the other side thinks they don't love america. that's where we've taken it too far. >> leadership, it starts with
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leadership. a leader somebody who could take a variety of individuals, creative vision, and have everybody working together to accomplish that. a a bad leader, is someone who says this group that group is against you, they're the bad ones and we would get everything done if it weren't for them. that's bad leadership, another aspect is multitasking. during the current administration we've had a situation, during the previous administration there wasn't enough multitasking, it was like focused on the war and trying to make sure america didn't get attacked again, but you have to be able to multitask. we've had a pretty long drought since we've had the kind of leadership that says america
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lets remember who we are. have we made made mistakes? of course we have. >> who do you think has done at the way. >> walt john kennedy, he came in he was 44 years old, look at the stuff those going on, the human missile crisis a huge civil rights movement, the economy was horrible, unemployment, and the russians had passed us in the space program. what did they do he said within ten years were to put a man on the moon and bring it back. he galvanized the business industry academics, they came behind a project and and were able to come together. he put his brother bobby in charge of civil rights movement, bobby was very compassionate he got his ear to the ground, is very smart. he faced down the russians, and
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faced world war iii but he didn't blink. he despite his own party, he he said you need to lower taxes and it had it tremendous effect, and credibly brave guy. ronald reagan, look at the kind of leadership he provided which actually resulted in the disillusion and the winning of the cold war without firing a shot. bravery, statesmanship, working across the aisle, he was able to work with the democrats and kennedy was able to work. >> so do you see any leadership like that right now and any party? >> i think there is potential
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and one reason i tend to keep speaking out is i want people on both sides to understand this. >> tooth and killer quinn has potential. >> of course she has everybody does. >> what did you think about the clinton administration question mark. >> i was was pleased with the fact that he was able to work with republicans to get the budget under control, of course you know the whole history of that. >> you know there's an argument that could be made that you can't do big-budget deals with one party and may be impossible. >> so that was good and as you probably noticed i don't spend a lot of time talking negatively about people. >> know you don't that seems to be one of your strengths. >> what i'd rather do is spend time talking about how we solve problems, we have capability, we ours smart people, we are innovative people but we have to create the environment that honors the hard work and honors innovation.
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>> you bring up yourself in this book after years speech at the national prayer breakfast and other said what about ben carson for president? so i asked you why would you consider it? >> the reason, first of all certainly not my plan for retirement. it's a very long and arduous career however, there's so many people, in a place, it's unbelievable the crowd that show up, i go to a book signing and people are like screaming out the door, there's only people you can't get in. they're all saying you gotta do this, and the beginning i didn't take it seriously but it just keeps happening and i have to ask myself, at some point you have to put aside what you are planning and listen.
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>> you said in many ways uses a little bit of faith, a little bit of god's plan. >> absolutely. >> do you feel. >> i believe that america despite what president obama says is a judeo-christian, and i believe that because i've done lot of reading on the founding of this nation. all you have to go back is read the letters. the people who say that our founders had no idea what they're talking about, the evidence is quite clear that they had strong faith. so i believe it was those judeo-christian principles that let us to the pinnacle of the world and to a much higher pinnacle than anyone else experience. >> you don't have a lot of fabulous things to say about the republican party, so i wonder
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and i've been thinking about your potential candidacy, if you ran would you more comfortable running under a party banner or not. >> if i ran i would run as a republican. but i would run as an independent. all that will do a split the votes. i don't think i would be be welcomed in the democrat party if i ran. >> you pick one of the two parties, but you see why there's there's a distrust inside both parties right now. >> no question. >> and part of it is this populist thing of do the right things, i'm not getting a fair guilt deal the life the left thinks i'm not getting a fair deal and it's wall street's fault. you can make an an argument they're both right someways and that's why i've wondered if some of this boils over into more of a problem with people going outside the party structures. >> after seeing what happened.
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>> that's what convinces you to know that you have to do this you want to reformat what you want to do. >> right but i also would like to see a situation where we deemphasize, i just don't think i mean i think it's nice to have. >> going back to the farm founders a lot of under one of party but that was a big argument. >> were all americans, we think we ought to be doing things that work for all of us. one of the things that offends me is when we take our constitution and we say, i'm going to force this part but not this part. and this group gets an exemption but this group doesn't. i can't even tell you how that makes me feel. >> let me ask you about the constitution are you strict, sort of like and frankly there's very quart cases that go this way is the letter of the law or the spirit of the lot, is it the


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