tv Book Discussion on Jonas Salk CSPAN October 3, 2015 1:45pm-2:51pm EDT
congress also had asked -- acted in ways that demonstrated a transition was a different kind period. >> afterwards airs on booktv every saturday at 10:00 p.m. and sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern. you can watch all previous afterwards programs on our web site booktv.org. >> now on booktv charlotte jacobs remembers the life and career of jonas salk, creator of the polio vaccine. she is joined in conversation by janet napolitano, president of the university of california and former secretary of homeland security. >> good evening and welcome to today's meeting of the commonwealth club of california, this is the place where you are in the know. you can find us online at commonwealthclub.org, find us on
facebook and twitter and on the club's youtube channel as well. i am 8 share of the commonwealth board of governors and i am going to chair today's program. this program is part of the club's good list ceres underwritten by the bernard foundation. 60 years ago, physician, researcher jonas salk changed human history by inventing a the polio vaccine. his work has saved countless lives, helped shape the medical field as we know it today. recently doctor charlotte jacobs, professor emeritus at stanford medical school published the first comprehensive biography of this medical pioneer entitled jonas salk in life. today we are pleased to have dr. jacobs discuss her biography of
jonas salk along with his work and lessons learned from it. dr. jacobs will be in conversation with janet napolitano, president of the university of california, former secretary of the department of homeland security and former governor of arizona. let me now just say a bit more about each. a graduate of washington university school of medicine in st. louis, dr. charlotte jacobs came to stanford as the fellow in oncology in 1975. she joined the faculty in 1977 and was promoted to full professor in 1996. she has received numerous awards for excellence in teaching and for her contributions to medical education. dr. jacobs also serve for seven years as senior associate dean for education and student affairs. dr. jacobs was appointed
director of stanford clinical cancer center. and she served concurrently as director of the clinical cancer program for the stanford joined health care program. 2001, dr. jacobs stepped down from the director position to return to patient care. dr. jacobs is known for her research in head and neck cancers and held several leadership positions in the cancer arena at nationally. janet napolitano became the 20th president of the arrest of california in 2013. she led the university system with ten campuses, five medical centers, three affiliated national laboratories and a statewide agricultural and natural resources program. as you see president, janet napolitano has launched initiatives including achieving financial stability for the
university, focusing research, resources on vocal and global food issues and achieving carbon neutrality across the system. she hopes by 2025. also accelerating the translation of research in products and surpasses. she has also implemented the fair wage fair work plan which establish the $15 wage for employees and contract workers. this is the first for a public university. from 2009 to 2013 janet napolitano was the first woman to serve as secretary of the department of homeland security. and from 2003 to 2009 she served as the 21st governor of arizona becoming arizona's third female governor and the first woman to reelection. janet napolitano greg tweeting from santa clara university and received her doctorate from the university of virginia law
school. please welcome doctor charlotte jacobs who will be in conversation with janet napolitano. [applause] >> thank you, joe, thanks to all who are in attendance with us tonight who are listening in for what i think will be a terrific conversation. and i think we have agreed to call each other by our first names so charlotte, i'd like to start by asking how did you come to choose jonas salk as the subject of this biography? >> i grew up in the time before the polio vaccine and i remember how frightening it was in pictures and magazines, and children struggling with crutches, it was enormous fear, no one knew which child and
count, and in 1954 the national foundation tells a national trial looking at the efficacy of the jonas salk vaccine. they chose 200 lbs. of around the united states and my home town of kingsport, tennessee was selected for one of but sites so i was in the original trial, i was called a pioneer. i still have that little button. year later when the vaccine was called a successful jonas salk became one of the greatest heroes of my generation so i was surprised as an adult to realize no one had ever written a full biography of jonas salk so i set out to write one. >> let's work our way backwards.
is beginnings, perhaps you could talk about his work free polio. and what he was doing with respect to influenza, another great surge of the 1900s. what brought in to the field. >> i scroll all the way back. he was unlikely to be a great physicians scientists, born in east harlem into an immigrant family, he was bright but not brilliant, he was shy, his mother told him when he was born that he was born with and amniotic sac over his face and destined for greatness and he believed her. he felt and used for a as a child did sunday he could do a noble deed. that drove him all the way to
medical school. right after his medical training, pearl harbor was bombed and so he who had done some research in medical school with, francis went to the university of michigan where thomas francis was rushing to make an influenza vaccine. why was he doing that? an epidemic of influenza was threatening troops and brought back a terrible memory of 1918 with the spanish flu epidemic when almost as many young men died of the flu has died in combat. they were rushing against time and the two of them concocted and tested the first successful influenza vaccine for which i must say at the 15 did not get a lot of credit. so then he got a little stymied by frances and took a position at the university of pittsburgh.
there he wanted to work on a universal influenza vaccine. he thought you could make a vaccine that would take care of all different types of influenza but he was blocked repeatedly by senior scientists. in 1947 when harry weaver who was a talent scout for the national foundation for infantile paralysis invited him to join him on the attack on polio he readily joint that effort. >> it is interesting because there are some names you have already mentions that are recurring names throughout the biography. and there are lots of very fascinating characters in the book, little many biographies included. i picked five. let's go through those five, described a little bit for the
audience who they were, how they fit into this story of the polio vaccine and begin with terry weaver. >> harry weaver worked for the national foundation for infantile paralysis. and had an eye for talent and he saw this young researcher, not full of himself, and what the march of times when did. >> that never happens. >> he was really instrumental, in getting him into that group who was working on the polio vaccine. gary weaver wanted to see things
move along, they had appointed a group of senior scientists in the field of polio, advise about their best approach to polio, but they were going pretty slow as scientists might, thinking about understanding a lot of basic science etc. and jonas salk was a race horse jumping at the bit not because he wanted fame but because he could see beyond the microscope. he wanted to get out there and get a vaccine, didn't want another summer to go by with children paralyzed. gary weaver was the stimulus behind getting jonas salk in the march of dimes. >> bully was seasonal. every year people knew there would be another polios summer and you didn't know where it was going to hit or who was going to be affected. you mentioned basil o'connor, one of my favorite biographies
in this biography. talk about him. >> he is my favorite too. basil o'connor was actually a law partner of franklin delano roosevelt. he was the spunky irish immigrant who really saw himself working with fdr, in a very wealthy family. he made a deal with fdr that he would do all the work in the law firm and became a very successful lawyer. this idea of having a place for polio victims, and then this idea, raising polio victims, when fdr died suddenly it all fell to his hands. basil o'connor always swore of pin-striped suit, white carnation, his word was law.
he ran the national foundation with tight fists and everything had to go his way. >> that is the national foundation -- >> for infantile paralysis which started the march of dimes as a mechanism to raise money for the polio vaccine. interestingly, a 20 year difference between basil o'connor and jonas salk and they could not have been more difficult. of o'connor was bombastic, knew exactly what he was thinking, he was strong, outspoken, and jonas salk was the shy, retiring, very kind individual. coming back from a pallia meeting early on we have time together on the queen mary and that is where this deep friendship bordering on out love affair, they were crazy about each other and became lifelong
friends and the little postbord they were crazy about each other and became lifelong friends and the little post cards and notes were endearing said their friendship week through the book and the saddest and most poignant part for me was when their friendship fell apart. >> that is for the end over issue is -- basil o'connor had a daughter. >> a daughter, called up one day and sent i have one of your diseases. she survived and developed a nice friendship with jonas salk this many people thought jonas salk, never had that scientists, some of them returned to the chosen. >> we will get to that in a
minute. medical research was funded very differently than it is today. taco bell little bit about the march of dimes and the whole connection of the public. >> someone is working on a book about the march of don imus, an incredible organization. the entire public, and a war on polio. it was thought of by any can for as a concept and at posters and canisters to put your dime in. if you had a dime when i was a child he wanted to buy candy but you had to put it in that canister. everyone was behind it, the whole nation. the way they were able to do
that and garner the excitement of the public was amazing. not only through the march of dimes they found almost all the polio research, funded the future trial we will get to but even more incredible to me is that trial was carried out by the march of dimes by volunteers, was carried out by out large research institute for a lot of high-powered well-trained research assistants. it was carried out by school principals, housewives were involved in that enormous trial and collecting all of the data. it really was the public was so engage in the march of dimes. >> really a universal, national effort focused on one disease. we are going to get to the trial in a minute because the whole discussion is an amazing story,
two other names, isabel morgan. >> a minor character in the book but not in the world of science and part of the johns hopkins team that was working on polio and one of the first things that had to be done by this group harry weaver got together was to figure out how many types of polio are they, is there one like smallpox? are there a hundred change all the time like influenza which makes it difficult and what techniques they going to use so they would agree on how to test for the polio tight so jonas salk was listening to isabel morgan and talking about which technique and suddenly his mind goes to something else, she's talking about her experiments, and killed virus. everyone is arguing about this approach, he is going yes, i can
make that vaccine, the kill virus did stimulate immunity. at that moment, the history of medicine, most of the scientific community believe that only a vaccine made with the live weakened virus could impart immunity to prevent disease and that it been the case with smallpox for example and rabies and they all believed that and were working for having no live virus vaccine. i'm going to make a kill virus vaccine and i think it will work. and credited isabel more than with that idea. >> research shortly thereafter, there was really no role for all women at that time. and a quieter life.
>> a lot of scientists. >> jon enders. >> a pretty famous harvard professor, he is important because everybody used to have a polio virus in monkeys. he will grow polio virus, and the nobel prize for it, like the steam engine that was created or something. and got more credit from the public but jon enders had no interest in making a vaccine. use the basic scientist who wanted to work on how to grow polio virus and he did. he also did not believe you could use a kill virus and he opposed jonas salk all away. >> the axis -- >> i will come back to that
later. hand 1700 paralyzed kids in boston. >> i want to get back to is that. you mentioned a minutes ago, thomas francis. >> thomas francis had been asked and why you, jonas salk new at the beginning he wanted to do research and not be a practicing doctor. they went in and ask thomas francis if he could work in his land because francis is working on viruses and years later, he was a kind of presentable young man who wanted to tinker in the lab and realize what a determined to young man he was. when he went on to work on the influenza virus, jonas salk joined him. tx that field, he became a very prominent epidemiologist, he wasn't engage in making vaccines
but when it came time to test the vaccine the national foundation, march of dimes, basil o'connor, harry weaver took the vaccine away from jonas salk and said you cannot be the person who runs or analyzes that trial. why did they do that? at that point in time jonas salk was trying to get some bad vibes in the scientific community, they fought people would be suspect if he tested his own vaccine. so the march of dimes, the red cross, ran the trial and thomas francis was selected to do all of the analysis and present the trial data in an arbor, mich. april 12th, 1955. interestingly thomas francis kind of a stuffy statistician, he would not let anyone know what was going on. no previews ahead of time and so this huge announcement was going
to be made, jonas salk was to follow in in talking, he found out at breakfast the morning before he started the talks on an hour before, trial had been a success. >> the trial, you had polio as the center of national attention, the president had been of polio victim, the nation's school children, everyone else, everyone trying to find that vaccine, and everybody knows there's going to be a trial but it is not a little human trial, there have been smaller human trials for homes for children with disabilities and prisons etc. but the real trial that everyone
thinks of now is the 1954 trial. explain to the audience the scope of this trial. >> one of the biggest trials in the history of medicine certainly in the united states. it was conducted, first, second, and third graders at 211 sites, one of the million children who participated in this trial is astronomical. there were two trials going on at the same time, major trial, randomized between a placebo or vaccine. housewives ran this trial, they were responsible for d term ending who got what and collecting the data. that to me boggles my mind. because basil o'connor told the
states to to it that way, it got the met vaccine in those towns and a rich compared to first graders and third graders. it was an incredible trial and carried out magnificently. >> i have this picture of francis, and picking up these cards from all over the country, analyzing it for months, coming into an arbor and a select april 12th, 1955, is a significant day for another reason. >> frances and i selected this date, that was the longest one,
gave me more time to do the analysis. but all the naysayers said it was for publicity and they said jonas salk chose that date for sure. >> jonas salk had nothing to do with it. and so an arbor, mich. everyone was paying attention. what was francis going to announce. this is a marvelous section of the book where you describe that day in and arbor. can you give aid little flavor of how organized it was? >> that is not the way scientific advances you find out about them. normally you would have written of the results, peer review in the journal, would have been published and given a talk about it and maybe it would have made the news. that was the standard but this was in the form of a news
conference and this beautiful auditorium, there were 150 reporters with all their cameras in the back of the stage and they were promised that they could get the results ahead of time. they were upstairs bleeding but they had to keep it secret. you can imagine the minute those results came out it was a free-for-all, they swarmed the guy that was handing them out, he immediately got on the ticker tape and everything else. they -- gary wick was first in his excuse was too good to keep secret cellar stairs chaos is going on and it starts downstairs, no one has heard anything and thomas francis gave an hour presentation in a very measured, scientific way going through the methods, etc.. 45 minutes as if he were giving
-- 45 minutes into it, he said and now the results and everybody went crazy. the minute that he announced the incidence of paralytic polio by 80% of the world went crazy. people were honking horns, there were sirens going, there were prayer meetings held, people were out in the streets cheering, hugging each other writing thank you, jonas salk call all overs their stores. was as many people said like the end of a war and then a jonas salk got up talk and he was the public starlings. they just loved him and he honestly thought the next day he would go home and go back to his laboratory and start doing research. eat it and have a clue that he had just become the world celebrity. >> edward r. murrow pulled him aside at the end of the morning
and basically apologized and said i am sorry this has happened, that you discovered a cure for polio because you have lost your anonymity. another thing that happened in the midst of all this is jonas salk thanks o'connor but he forgets to thank or acknowledge his team is >> the acknowledge them but not by name. the ones who worked on it. and there are only five working on that vaccine. to show how angry they are, one of the -- the son, and nasty
things, afterwards jonas salk tried to retract, he felt very bad about it. to mention them but the damage in their minds had been done. their names were not on publication of the final results but neither were jonas salk's. francis and his statistician were on it, but they were all very angry and still the only living relative today. >> talk about someone who is a greek throughout this book, robert sabin. it is interesting because he and jonas salk had similar backgrounds, poor jewish immigrant families in new york, i think sabin was a few years older than jonas salk.
the source of their animosity and intensity. >> i must say albert sabin's daughter spent a lot of time talking with me as did two brothers so i got it from both sides and they are in agreement, their children have become friends and that is interesting. this is one of the great medical feuds of history and that bothered jonas salk because it was not really true. earlier on save and acted as a mentor, they sent notes to each other, best personal regards, they stay up wage and talk to each other until after midnight. that was when sabin thought that jonas salk was going to do his bidding. sagan believes like most scientists that you need to make a live virus vaccine and that is all that would work and jonas salk didn't fit his hand. he thought he was right in lockstep behind satan on the
way, it will take several years, at one of the meetings jonas salk made a kill virus vaccine and tested children and shown that they can have antibodies. that really drove satan to distraction and when they went to test that, even more angry. there wasn't a rival, there is a race. jonas salk was not in a race against sabin but against the polio that was killing people. >> every year's delay another 50,000 children. >> jonas salk said this isn't a rival about two people but about a principal. you do a kill vaccine or a live virus vaccine. and after the vaccine had been approved and four years later,
paralytic polio was reduced by 90% in the united states but the scientists still believe the jonas salk vaccine was a stopgap until they had an oral live virus vaccine. they also believed that this a been tested one, it was safe and effective. >> in the middle of the cold war. >> and in the early 1960s, the public health service recommended, and get it in a sugar cube. a lot of basic scientists working beneath that. a lot of politics as well. sabin, jonas salk was upset about that, tried to get the decision reversed, he was worried again, cause polio, all the major medical
decisionmakers, the medical association, everyone turned a deaf ear to him. no one made the vaccine in the united states anymore. he spent the rest of his life trying to get that vaccine be licensed because people did get polio from the vaccine. it was a small number. the scientific community was behind sabin, so jonas salk became tenacious in trying to reverse that decision. that is where the rivalry release started to heat up. but again jonas salk never set a bad word about satan. very gentlemanly. >> the reverse couldn't be said. >> sabin was bombastic, he was the leader, very well known in the scientific community, well-respected and gave a lot of grief to jonas salk.
>> this other slide, a line up on either side. >> there were not many. >> sabin made some big mistakes in his own research. how would you assess the relative value of the vaccine in the sense that which ones are in current use? >> a very interesting history. as time went on, jonas salk worked with the company in france to try to make that better, newer version, better polio killed vaccine virus and the sabin vaccine because people got polio was not licensed but it was four years after jonas salk had died. is a vaccine which is the only one use in the united states and in most developed countries,
very ironic that we will probably get rid of polio sunday because of both vaccines and they're probably both rolling of rainier grave when they hear that because they were not exactly friends with the end of their lives because of oral vaccine is much easier to give and much less expensive so in the third world countries though oral vaccine is being used at his irresponsible for many improvements. interestingly in 2014 there were 414 cases of polio around the world. 55 of those were caused by that vaccine. it can revert to more very odd forms a you can't get rid of polio forever with the oral vaccine. but they, the global polio eradication initiative which is a wonderful wonderful initiative
to get rid of polio worldwide, after they get the last case of polio from the wild vaccine gone. it will only be the killed vaccine which most people, everybody in the united states gets. >> there was an article in the new york times, down to one last case. >> still a few. we are going to pause. you are listening to the commonwealth club of california program and our guest is dr. charlotte jacobs, an emeritus professor of medicine at stanford university and author of a new biography of jonas salk, inventor of the polio vaccine. i am janet napolitano, president
of the university of california at your moderator. you can hear commonwealth club programs on the radio, catch up with us on the club's youtube channel. there goes the commercial announcements. back to the jonas salk/satan dispute the the one won the nobel prize. >> no. jonas salk always said i hope someday that my biographer won't pose our rivalry as two little jewish boy from the bronx fighting it out. >> you did fulfill his wish. they never -- enters at harvard, he won at novell right in the
middle of the trial, discovering you could grow the virus in on nervous tissue. they didn't wait until the trial. >> it didn't matter. in terms of cell culture, supplied to lot of different viruses was a major step forward in science. >> but in terms of polio. >> jonas salk never got the nobel prize, he was nominated multiple times and all the information about the committees and nominations was held under lock and key, maybe the year before, some of that information was made public and there was then up book written about the nobel prize and the section about what happened to jonas salk. they would look at the nominations and there was a swedish scientist who was on that committee and always wrote up jonas salk. he didn't like jonas salk.
he said he couldn't reproduce his results. after the vaccine came out there was an industrial accident where quite a number of children, the vaccine had not been activated correctly. ecb blamed that on jonas salk. she said jonas salk did not make the discovery of any merit the she said we have to wait until the trial is over, he said the trial has been successful but it could have happened the other way. it wasn't a major scientific discovery. he told robert gallo it doesn't matter because everybody thinks i got the nobel prize. but more egregious, i am not sure the definition of the nobel prize, a candidate for that. the national academy of sciences, was blackballed from. that to me was the egregious and
those records are not available, the interview of people who were around at the time and wind through the process and one person could blackball them. they said sagan did that but plenty of scientists to be-who didn't like jonas salk so he never got into the national academy glee she got relatively little recognition from the scientific community and that was one of the questions that drove me to write this book, why? do you want to hear the reason? it i am going off track. >> i know a little about politics. reading about politics between scientists would give you gray hair. these guys are in tents but go ahead. >> what underlying their disdain or rejection of him, there was this young scientist who wasn't
a member of the scientific brotherhood at the time, he tests the vaccine behind their backs and challenging their pivot that was so deeply religiously held about live viruses, that was number one. number 2, he grabbed the limelight and took all the credit, he didn't mention the other scientists, not talking about people in his lab at the the big scientists. the media made him the icon to the a polio saw the. the public did not want to hear about jon enders or dorothy oarsmen, they wanted to hear about jonas salk. he had been made a media star in a sense and they didn't like that. but the third, this ties in with something you said at the national academy of sciences, he reached out to the public in the way scientists didn't do. he felt the public had funded this trial, they behind this trial and he oppose it to them, tried to answer every single letter.
gave interviews to parent magazine's, good housekeeping, went on television and showed the public hall you make a maxine using a blender. that did not sit well with the scientists who built walls around academia so he was accused, his decorum wasn't quite good. and pandering to the media but let's face it. he garnered more celebrities than almost any scientist, physicians scientist with the exception of pasteur, you can't discount jealousy. one of his friends said don't discount jealousy. it is amazingly strong in the field of medicine and science. >> as you mentioned he has never made at member of the national academy of science, not inducted into the institute of medicine until the end of his life because all he did, half a million children from getting
polio. that is all he did. same dynamic i suspect. >> when i asked the institute of medicine, they wrote a short note, he is still a member. he was 80 years old. but they didn't -- >> gets into the politics of it or whatever, he is also involved around the time televisions are in every household, the media landscape is changing very rapidly. you have this huge media campaign, the march of dimes is almost a crowd sourcing campaign in a way to raise the money for the vaccine and the other scientists to me just seem to be clueless about that and what it would mean for the future of medicine end medical research. the you get the sense that he
>> >> and as social worker really believed in him but that got tiring after a while and his three sons barely saw him but the media has reading to him and having a barbecue in those things didn't happen because there's so much celebrity natalie legendary father and husband weber celebrity by association and his wife could never accommodates and the marriage eventually ended in divorce and subsequently.
>> so he goes back to pittsburgh at the international celebrity with a ceremony in the rose garden and. with the allied forces in world war ii he chokes up over jonas salk. he concedes the idea it will have anything to work on he becomes interested in how you not unite science and christianity's at large and he moves so what is the the salk institute? they talked about this with the queen mary with the two
cultures that sparked him to create an institute where they humanist worked side by side to view the science with the conscience of man to provide enormous funding with an architectural institute that will be places is no way a overlooking be ocean. that's he could attract outstanding scholars and nobel prize laureates and to face nothing but problems he had an architect and had more fun dreaming and drawing and their old days on the brink of vagrancy he had a falling out with basil
o'connor that was painful he said i could raise more money with salk dead than alive and he heard that and the proposal by the very scientists with whom he had built a shaker lot. and it is a fabulous institute but he said i am only half happy. >> always thinking ahead he strikes the meet as is someone who rest. >> it'll figure ever watched television he just worked. >> and he socialized with women. >> okay. yes. [laughter] i was not looking for this i was talking to john:and he
says how bill you deal with the oscar chasing? i said what? he said when carter wrote a book on the history of polio he said i cannot mention that. i saw of the internet obama and his started to talk about all the time she spent with salt and 1% lead to another and began to hear stories but in later life he was much of a philosopher but he cannot express himself in ways that were not accessible to the public. they would be the torchbearers to be young and bright and attractive women.
what started out of the intellectual plane at some points would devolve into a physical relationship. i didn't know whether to include this or not. i pestered my husband or my friends in the audience but then i heard so many biographers that were criticized for withholding parts of people's lives and this is a full life. and as a solitary emily mann to he never would find it and would tell one of his friends that was a close friend of his life and i
learned very early in one that everybody has to get into their pants when they get a time in other words, i of humans also. >> host: but it struck me that but to be shunned by the scientific establishment the awards from the civilian side not the scientific side. he seemed to be someone who was always looking for approval or validation. >> i have a lot of interviews and he had a lot of theories with the al these funds with the way of him showing the scientific community you have your awards but i have this lovely lady on my arm.
so his son was a psychiatrist never acknowledged the affairs was always looking for a special connection and could never connect that the and that is why he kept working. >> what about francois? that is one of my favorite biographies. >> so to become quite well-known with life with picasso that details his mistress now salk is a free man after his divorce met her at the salk institute and she had no interest initially by realized that
he had a great interest in art and architecture. so he pursued her and told me the story of when he proposed to say i don't see a reason in to get married to write down the days that have to happen to make it work so he left their room and came back and she had written down a long list and he said i can do all of these things. she did not tell we all of them except one that she could spend six months a year in france are in her studio in new york to paint mostly alone because she was very currier driven and an accomplished artist herself. friends were shocked he married her to begin with but then they realize you
looked healthier and happier and started to do things besides working in a laboratory. he had longer hair he got into yoga and his sister and long said that she'd one that she had frenchified him. [laughter] that they became a more intellectual couple. francois is very straightforward i did get to interview her and she cuts to the chase. jonas is horrified when charlie rose said how did you end up with the two most famed men in history? she said lions mate with alliance but later in life
-- lions. [laughter] but francois was interviewed and the day asked her how she enjoyed being at the salk institute and la jolla she said if not for my husband i would not spend five minutes en la jolla. of course, the press did not like her. >> host: they were together until his death. they had their deal. so at the salk institute now and la jolla there is an architect that is brilliant but slow and expensive. basal o'connor has cut him off and is constantly having to raise money the unity between the humanities but
it seems like he is still trying to stay in the research came. >> working on cancer to show he knew nothing about modern molecular biology. it was such an embarrassment at the salk institute bay connived to shut down his laboratory. and was well regarded in the multiple sclerosis world but to head to a blind alley it was therapeutic and had an allergic reaction. but that was the end of a scientific career and tell aids care around he was busy writing philosophical books but then a terrible disease is hitting young gay men it is almost like he put on his armor to charge right into
the arena. it was amazing. people thought really? what is he doing trying to regain the former glory? but others thought he did credible work to form the immune response and made a vaccine to delay the time of infection of hiv and full-blown aids and that is still under evaluation today with a more modern version of a. but he coated do scions the way he used to now there are all kinds of regulations and is in a time warp. in fact, he was arguing.
>> said he was still at it at 80 still trying to do good. something his mother established from childhood but it is still the opportunity for the scientist to do what salk did in the 40's and of '50s? >> i tried to compare at one point. the first thing he has to do all the basic science work. he would have to write a
grand. the latest figures are 60 percent of the grants from the national institutes of health are funded. you never wrote a successful granted his life so he probably would have said the cutoff but had he been able to then he would as of to go through the investigational new drug application, all that animal trials and the minute he was working on monkeys animal protection would be breathing down his neck he would be on twitter multiple times a day you cannot do at and to go through phase 012 or three in children. really? the protection for children and clinical trials is enormous as the
investigational drug application it is about 20 pages long compared to one paragraph then to say to face the people against vaccination. my husband in the biotech world it would take $500 million beginning to end to take about 10 years. salk made his vaccine 3-1/2 months from the time the trial was completed and licensed that very day was three and a half years. the answer is i doubt it. >> s a totally different historical time.
the protection walls went up and they should. there should be a way to expedite research when it is critically important to the national good. and that moves things along more quickly. >> this is one of the disputes beyond a microscope is about preventing children to get to that point as quickly as possible. where the lessons learned from salk life after working on the biography over a decade? >> with the individual and
though whole relationship with the scientific community the rules of academia and how those half to be a little more fluid with the unconventional scientist to thrive that is one of the major ones that is the bench to new bedside going from bed to bed side like that within a few months. but i think those are some of the major lessons learned.
>> where would you place in the annals of history of medicine? where would you rank can - - jim? >> it is our rather basic gore clinical but he made one of the major contributions in the history of medicine and. no doubt about that. he was responsible for the prevention of polio and implements a which we have not even touched on. no one can take that away from him. to go on the aids work with that simple vaccine he is very pompous to say but he did one of the greatest being thin history. >> then we tell the tale of the tape. that is probably a good place to stop it is a