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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  October 14, 2015 3:00pm-5:01pm EDT

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on paper, the question now becomes whether the chinese will do what they agreed to do on paper. and so the way forward will be putting them to the task of having ministerial level conversations with us on a regular basis. we hope to have one before the end of this year. ..
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to the extent you can in the public forum to make sure that they are appropriately addressed and that could be a number of these things. >> just to highlight one thing in particular given the nature of how the terrorist threat has evolved, i think it is incumbent upon the federal level to share as much intelligence as we can with state and local law enforcement. they do an excellent job at the federal level of detecting investigating and interdicting
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terrorist threats almost on a weekly if not a dalia basis and i've been constantly impressed with how their methods have evolved to match the threat but it highlights that it's also critical that we get information out to state and local law enforcement as well so that they are aware of what we are seeing is a. >> with respect to the potential coming to the united states it is -- >> we are trying to do the right thing. we are trying to do the other right thing. it's something that we have learned how to do better screening people. the experience we have we didn't do it as we should have in the first decade with the iraq he rescued she is, so we have to go back and do it and we learned a
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lot from it so we are more effective as a law enforcement national intelligence security screening folks that says there is no such thing as a no risk enterprise and there are things, there are deficits that we fae. i am not comfortable talking about them. i don't want them to know what we might be that that's how i sum it up. >> with regards i agree totally with what jim said. we should do the right thing by accepting more but have to be careful in doing it. we have improved the process for vetting the security standpoint and refugees admitted in the country and i'm committed to making sure that we maintain a process. >> you mentioned the encryption ways to make sure we are trying to protect against the criminals into the conversations are under way can you tell us a little bit more about that?
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>> we are having conversations with the industry because i think in part it focuses on everybody's mind and understood there is a conflict between israel and the safety and security and public safety and so the industry is not a monolith is lots there is lots of different services and products being provided that all people care about the safety of america and also care about privacy and civil liberties and so we are talking to each other about how can we accommodate both of those values again this is about how can we get you in a position to apply with a court order we are not looking for volunteers to sneak in anyway but how can anywhere but how can we get to replace technologically but also really important conversations with our allies around the world to care about the same values and the rule of law and care about the safety and health of the
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together come up with a framework that would make sense and embrace the rule of law and accomplished and maximize both of the values into the last group was the state and local law enforcement and this is a problem that affects state and local law enforcement because child abuse cases and domestic violence car crash cases, all those things cops and sheriffs have are affected by the work that an encryption has gone from a notch and available from sophisticated people which has always been to a default so cops and sheriffs try to figure out where this child went so we are engaging them because this affects every community in the united states. there is no simple answer. folks aren't questioning as much as they showed that we recognize we care about the same stuff.
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>> it's always good to give us a to-do list. we can help the legislators. >> thank you, senator. by the way the suggestion on the prioritization if we set it up as the number one criteria family members we can do dna testing editor would certainly be a helpful plus for the families to be financially responsible so i think that it's setting the criteria for the prioritization and would be helpful. senator tester. for folks being on the weather and then they go dark if you talk about technology and the like out and working in the private sector when you responded to the ranking member.
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the question i have is do you have adequate resources and this can go by the board because i know that you work on it, too but do you have the resources and the power to be able to technologically stand? >> the answer depends upon a number of things. the ability to hire we were left with from the impact to the last sequestration. that's the first thing. the second thing i don't know what we faced is the new normal. that is this summer we were following dozens and dozens of people all over the united states 24/accident and that is only easy on tv so to do that we have the resources from the criminal cases to make sure we cover these folks and we disrupted a lot of those people and our great colleagues in the military have made some progress degrading some of the
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capabilities and their so-called caliphate so i don't know what we experienced this summer if it will be the new normal and if it is and i will be prudent about coming back and asking. >> i agree with everything said there are demonstrable cases where we have seen our ability to track individuals of some suspicion is hampered by the means of the communications so i would just ask cam technology take the darkness to light? >> with help from the private sector, yes. around the board you collaborate while. how is it working was it working with state and local law
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enforcement. give me the lay of the landscape i don't care which one you want to talk about. >> i think that it's in a very big place they would be the people to check with on this but the joint terrorism task force and fusion center's account the country connected in ways they weren't before and the chiefs and sheriffs understand the new reality has changed and it's not a washington focus toward new york focused. they were hearing more completely from all of this at the table but they need to know. the ranking member also talked about it takes more than a military to reduce the terrorist
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threat. would you agree with that statement? your role is in reducing the drastic threat. as congress wraps up this year and anyone of you can answer this but it would probably be you what with what you prioritize the needs to do, two or three things, for you to be able to do your job? >> we need to get done to repeal the sequestration so that i can do all the things. it's going to be very difficult to meet all of those priorities if we have to work with the sequestered budget.
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that's one, two and three. has there been any comparison with terrorist actions in this country and other countries in the world? are we more targeted or are there the same threats around the world? >> the phenomenon that we have all described in these and other factors that are potentially connecting by consuming their media and seeking to act on their own behalf hour concerning population of those individuals as the director described described and we've all described. our partners have a much larger population of those potential actors. several of them quite a bit larger than ours, so by the relative comparison on scale i think we are in a sense better off with some of our closest european partners. that's by no means makes me feel sanguine about our own efforts at the level of resources director indicated to be able to follow and track those who may
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turn out to be a concern for metabolism perspective. but our european partners are more challenged because they bring to the table often considerably less capabilities to homeland security equivalent and homeland security equivalent and ministry of interior and domestic security service to pull counterterrorism homeland security enterprise is considerably less well-developed and they're looking for help to figure that out. >> is that because they choose not to fund its? >> at the rapid emergence of this variant in the french threats. it wouldn't be as surprising or comfortable with the capability to deal with the kind of al qaeda threat and affiliates as they understood. the threat has changed in a pretty dramatic way as we tried to outline a set of challenges some of which are particularly resource intensive for the law enforcement and intelligence
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organizations. >> this isn't within your purview but is there anybody it seems to me what's going on in the middle east now and it extends far beyond that is crazier than i've ever seen in my lifetime and i don't think that is an imagination. there's just stuff going on that makes no sense. is there at least from my perspective it makes no sense. does it seem to be going upside down fax? >> you are dealing with the threat on this end. is there anybody trying to ask questions why they are so effective and i know that it's a communication and all that but there's got -- maybe there doesn't. what is the reason for this stuff is there something going on in the world that we could have some impact on that wanted delegitimize these folks?
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>> we could have a whole hearing on this and your right its not directly within the purview of the three of us. my immediate reaction to the question is that there needs to be more of a global message and a global theme to counter the message to the muslim world about what the the state supposedly represents and so my judgment is that in order to try to counter what we are seeing, the volatility volatility that we are seeing particularly iraq and syria is a more amplified the global message about how in the muslim world in particular the efforts and energy should be directed towards younger people in a positive constructive way. >> thank you all for the jobs
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you do. >> secretary johnson, i agree sequestration was a really stupid idea. but there's ways of solving this and it's called the prioritization and i completely agree it is a top priority and we are going to treat it that way. >> i want to thank you for being here and for your leadership and i want to just start with a question for you secretary johnson in new hampshire we are facing a public health epidemic with opioid and heroin abuse and we have had a situation where we have had 60% increase in drug death. thank you for reviewing the transcript of the hearing that we had in new hampshire of this committee which was the head of
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the administration acting and the director from the office of national drug and control policy. so they testified but also we heard from the police chief of the largest city and the chief said something that's really important and that's right in your wheelhouse which is they were responding to a shooting in manchester and they had officers going to an apartment unknown to us previously and we found it to be a drug house and from that we did an investigation that led from lawrence massachusetts had directly to mexico. so now we know that there is a mexican drug cartel that is fueling heroin to the streets and that is alarming. we know that this is coming over the mexican border and it's really cheap on the streets right now and obviously this is a very complex problem and there is strong bipartisan legislation
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we are working on across the aisle. but can you tell me what more we need to do to interact more drugs especially heroin coming over from mexico and how are you working with mexican authorities on this issue and also others including the fbi, the dea because this is a public health epidemic. >> first, thank you for contacting the appeal hearing. i found the testimony and remarks and lightening and you put the spotlight. from my perspective interdiction is the key. introduction of the southern border is the key and what we have done in the department is provide the southern border campaign strategy which is a consolidated strategic effort to bring to bear all the resources of the department on the single
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problem which includes people and narcotics so that isn't just cbp but it's also immigration customs enforcement and hsi and we are generally moving in the direction of a coordinated strategy which includes the dea. i would like to do the same thing on the northern border and my hope is that at some point the congress will codify the southern border campaign strategy into the law and give the additional resources we need for the work on this effort obviously interdiction is the key. >> i wanted to ask you one of the things we know that the people who are addicted law-enforcement telling us rightfully so we can't arrest our way out of this problem but they want to focus on the kingpins. they want to focus on the cartels. we saw from secretary johnson what he just said in the
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interdiction piece. they are more interdicted in the country. >> the answer is working close to the dea strategy focused on what he called transnational organized crime so the big syndicates and cartels do just what you said to drive up the cost for them and to walk up lock up them and their lieutenants to make it harder for them to try to get drugs in the interdiction being a separate piece of the strategy we are working hard on every single day but it is an enormous problem because of the shift you talked about. >> one of the issues the chief raised that we talked about i just want to see if you have any insight on this. they have a model they are working on and i don't if they understood it was a part of the model has a sort of partnership as i understand it.
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are we able to bring a similar model together to work with the task force in new hampshire and i want to iowa to get your thoughts on that kind of a model is. i can't remember the test. it isn't the bureau specialty that we have certain capabilities we can bring to bear so we tend to bring it to bear in the task force which is both. we have the administrator in new hampshire to work with us on this and committed to see it from the fbi that looking at are there better ways we can use this and make sure we are all working together in a cohesive
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fashion. director coming you talked about the estimate of 250 americans have traveled above them if it isn't secretary johnson or your testimony if you traveled or attempted to travel to participate in the conflict and we are worried about the participation and one thing i wanted to ask about is we had an effort where we have been arresting people across this country very aggressively and as i understand we have close to 50 arrests.
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it's important for the american people to understand this is happening quite frequently the department is trying to aggressively work with homeland security to address these individuals on the terms of arrests that are being made. >> they are part of our strategy to do two things that my travel over to the caliphate. let them although maybe they will get killed up there or maybe they won't. >> we certainly don't want them coming back or going to hurt the partners. spec that's the future we will be talking about the next three to five years. we also want to send a really scary message because what we see in the travelers is they are getting incrementally younger and more females. it is a great way to find a life and so we are trying to send a message that it's a nightmare especially for a woman that if you play around with this this
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he will end up in jail for a long stretch to try to change that behavior. >> i know my time is up but who are you a resting and what is the background of the individuals tax you said more women. are you in countering younger people, is this centered in one community or something we are seeing across the country? the >> is >> there is no geographic center in part because the way the message is going out and there are kids and adults who are seeking meaning in their life so that resonates with those groups. there isn't a particular demographic. there's the location to age the travelers early on from something like 18 to 63 but what we have noticed is that it's early that it's early so this is in that its early services and a high confidence rate it seems to be a drifting younger with more girls. and by girls i mean women under the age of 18 with whom this method of social media is resonating. and my hope is we may see some
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early signs indicate signs in the data but the message is getting out to families and young people first it's a nightmare, don't go there thinking -- >> of course, women and girls are being raped. >> and this is a joy ride you this is a joy ride you will get in serious trouble if we get wind of it and go to jail for a very long stretch and we are doing both of those things are important in driving the numbers down but the time will tell whether we are -- we are making progress. >> this is something we are all very concerned about. appreciate you all being here. >> thank you, senator and for your leadership on this issue. the the generals appear only in protecting five to 10% of illegal drugs coming in from the southern border really indicating how unsecure the border is. so i want to thank secretary johnson and by the way we were talking about the border metrics
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metrics to build a three-part language to be done i think next week so hopefully we get that passed as a first step and i'd happy to -- we have been working on helping you codify your strategy so happy to wrap up those efforts and kind of work on those areas. so thank you for that and senator. >> thank you mr. chairman. someone should talk about so little time. i want to thank you secretary johnson for mentioning the northern border. it's a big balloon with press on one area it's going to stress another area obviously we have huge workforce challenges on the northern border and recruiting and retaining workforce so we have been working with your office and i want to thank you for the attention that you're focused. we have a bill before the past here. and director, i don't mean to
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pick on you but i'm going to. have you ever been to the indian country personally ..
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had a native american woman said we are an endangered species. and we have huge and critical problems, and the fbi i think is fairly in meeting the challenges, certainly in my part of the world in protecting native american people. we have record numbers of rapes of small children. we have record amount of drugs. 40% of tribal chairman told me, 40% of all the children born on one of my reservations is meth addicted. so i'm begging you to help. i'm begging you to seek an opportunity to participate and to bring federal law enforcement and print your counterparts at dea and which are focusing. because as we talk about the structures of law enforcement,
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and spent a lot of years as north dakota's attorney general. when people said where is it the fbi gets along with the rest of the states? i would raise my hand. we have a terrific relationship with the fbi and local law-enforcement but we lose and we failed in indian country. you can't protect a whole state when you have a huge amount of land and a huge opportunity for people who are peddling poison to basically go undetected, invisible and not even any threat at all of prosecution right there on the reservation. and people who can move are moving, and people who can't move are being exploited. i'm wondering if within the fbi and within the department of justice and your counter agencies whether there is an opportunity to really do more search work in indian country,
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especially in my part of the world. >> the answer is, yes. and thank you for the. it's not take it on me because i agree with you totally, and i'm so grateful for your passion because i've had a bunch of meetings on this as a director. my children when i became director just returned from redshirt table amateur girl said you've got to do something. you wouldn't believe what it's like. i understand in a pretty good way what it's like and i described it as a crime scene without representation. no one speaks for these places. so to hear you speak with this is a wonderful thing. i've done some, not nearly enough. i pushed additional services. i change the way we assign adequate agency indian country to get more talent, but i have to do more, and to watch this space. i'd like to talk to you about it again. >> i would welcome the opportunity to talk about what we need to do.
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because a lot of people don't understand jurisdictional challenges. i spent a lot of time trying to get m.o.u.s so we could get drug task forces and this was back when we were worried about farmers influx of white powder heroin, methamphetamine's is epidemic. and the challenges are not only in the public health arena because indian health isn't equipped to handle this but they are short in the law enforcement. we need a cop on the beat, and that is the federal officials. you have primacy here. so i look forward to working with you on those issues and making sure that this big part of my community which has native american people have the same level of public protection as any other american. and right now i've got huge landmass, one cop, and a big river in between and awak no wao
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get across the river. to protect people. and these challenges are in alaska. they are in, as you said on the navajo, and so i want to thank you for your willingness to have this conversation. i want to tell you we are passionate about it. senator tester and i talked over and over about this. we welcome you in north dakota. thank you. >> senator portman. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and thank you all for being here and for your service. on the issue of opiate abuse, particularly heroine which is a growth area in my state of ohio and around the country, we have the alarming statistic in our it's a number one cause of death. greater than all accidents which is typically the case. i was able to speak at the rally on addiction that occurred on sunday evening here and then spent a week with some of the individuals who came in from ohio, and i do believe this is
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an epidemic level at this point, particularly in certain parts of our state. and by the way, the addiction rates in our rural communities are higher than in our suburban communities according to the latest statistics we have to. i focus more on the demand side and the treatment and recovery side, along enforcement plays a critical role and we need your help in ohio. we have some programs that are working well, and i appreciate your commitment to that today. switching gears for a second, secretary johnson, a week ago you said the threat of foreign terrorist fighters requires comprehensive efforts to all of our partners, agencies, allegations will continue to adapt to this evolving threat and take the necessary action to protect the american public. i would ask this morning, director rasmussen, if you could give us information on these foreign fighters, and specifically my concern is the visa waiver countries. can you tell us how many foreign
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fighters from the visa waiver country have traveled to syria debates because i would have to get i.t. with the breakdown by the visa waiver countries as we understand it, but in aggregate we access -- we assessed week about when the conflict began over three years, the population of individuals who we possess of traveled to the conflict zone is upwards of 28,000 right there. that is in aggregate so it doesn't mean that today as we speak there's a pool or population inside iraq and syria that captures and covers three years of activity. it also captures and covers activity in both direction can individual died, individuals come and gone, the left and gone to other onboard third locations. from the west, and that would largely captured the visa waiver countries you're talking about, we assess that total is somewhat in excess of 5000 with the number of u.s. persons as the
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director indicated being approximately 250. so that's the broad breakup of the numbers as we have them. the greatest supplier countries come from the needed frontline states in the region as you would imagine because travel is so easy. as you get to the next government which would include southern and western europe, the population numbers are significantly there as well spirit that's a shocking number, 5000 just for people understand these are countries that have a visa waiver program with the united states where they can come to try it without going through the normal process to get a non-immigrant visa. these are countries that are sending foreign fighters into syria. the concern is they would go back to the country of origin and income to the united states under a visa waiver. 5000 is a huge number and a huge concern. if you wouldn't mind what i'd like to do is ask you to get back to me on a more specific number from the visa waiver countries, and specifically either concerned by the lack of
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information sharing. we have programs with some of these countries where we try to share information at the passenger name record nation data leads us vulnerable to some of these countries send him some of these foreign fighters. can you tell us about that or anybody also detail how the programs working and what else can be done to get better data on these people? >> let me start. i agree with you about the concern of foreign fighters coming from countries for which we do not require a visa, which is why last year we require additional information data fields in the database. those who want to come here and in august of this year we identified a number of security enhancements that we could obtain from countries in the program so the weather much better idea of who is coming here from those countries. they include, for example, the requirement that these countries
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make better use of apis and pnr data, that they use the interpol database for stolen passports on a more regular basis, that we increase the use of federal air marshals on flights coming from these countries. there's a whole series of enhancements and we identified we could obtain anywhere obtained from these countries for exactly this reason spent what more do you need? what more can we help you with? is there anything legislatively we can do to ensure we don't have these foreign fighters slipping into this country? >> hspd-6 was a presidential directive gives us a lot of authority in this area. and if countries want to be in this program they should agree to these security enhancements. that has been a mechanism for are seeking greater assurances that, but this is a concern of mine and always asking my staff that exact question is there any legislative authority that we could use. >> on the passenger name record nation data miners and is there some concerns.
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is there more we can do to tighten that up as well? maybe get back to us with a specific answer on that issue. on the syrian refugees in general, as you know secretary johnson i spend time focusing on this issue special immigrant visas for interpreters who stood with our troops in afghanistan director they've had a hard time going through the security clearance. i've got to show i'm skeptical but here today about 10,000 syrians come into discussions some sort of expedited process to screen them come having gone through the experience of these interpreters. i would ask you today, and director comey, also you express concerns about this as well i've noted in the public media. how are they going to deal with this? 1600 syrians by the end of fiscal year 2015 are going to be admitted. don't you think that also creates a threat to the homeland? if you do think that from,
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again, the comments i've seen in a public meeting you have a concern about.com what are we going to do about it? >> there is risk associated with bringing anybody in from the outside but especially the conflict zone like that. from the intelligence committees perspective, i think we've developed an effective way to touch all of our databases and resources to forget what we know about individuals. so that's my piece of it. i don't think that's a cumbersome process. my concern is there are certain gaps that i don't want to talk about publicly in the data available to us, but i can't speak to the rest of the processing that they be part of what you're talking about. >> there's a significant get because our intelligence and syria is so bad, right? we don't have the information we need to process these folks. i think we need to figure this out quickly given the fact it made this commitment.
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director rasmussen, do you have any more to add to that? >> you highlighted as a matter of comparison the intelligence picture we have a this particular conflict zone is not as rich as we would like it to be. when you screen, the screen against the available intelligence holdings. the more you have the more likely you can catch derogatory information that would cause you to review a potential case more closely. so we can attract reflective we've got a much more streamlined and effective system to make sure that all of our intelligence holdings are brought to bear as these decisions are made but you can only review against what you have, and that's come and again we are building that back into the without end of this book is a well so that at least we can identify where more questions need to be asked even if intelligence is inevitable. >> my time has expired. i think this is a huge issue in before making these commitments i hope there will was some
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dialogue with usually gentlemen and your organizations and hope we can come up with a screening process is better than the one we've had on these interpreters, particularly with less intelligence as you said on the ground. thank you, mr. chairman. >> senator lankford. >> thank you for your work to protect the nation. it's extremely important and i want you to hear from the folks in oklahoma we appreciate the work that you and it's incredibly valuable. we understand very well, as jeh johnson was in oklahoma not long ago, director comey was in oklahoma not long ago. we understand the threats that we face such as what you'd hear from us again we are grateful for what you are doing. i want to ask you, secretary johnson you mentioned before about the cybersecurity do. can you explain the why, why that is so important right now but not the threats but the specific language in which a need on the cybersecurity don't. >> yes, sir. two principal things come to mind immediately. one, explicit congressional
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authorization for dhs' ability to monitor, identify and block unwanted intrusions and other federal agencies through our einstein system. the virtue of young cynicism is it has the ability to block intrusions and it is a platform for greater and better technology into future. future. >> that's in the federal system, not private? >> correct. number two, greater incentives through law for the private sector to share information with the federal government when it comes to cyberthreat indicators. so that if something that is independent legislation now before the senate and i think that's a very good thing. those are the two principal areas. the data breach notification requirement and it has been but those are the principal we need. >> voluntary or mandatory with the private sector? >> we believe encouraging voluntary what the private sector is the way to go. >> that's a key aspect i would
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agree. the private sector in that cooperation as jim coming mentioned earlier, fbi doesn't come from mars. we are all american citizens. it's finding ways for us to work together. i want us to shift to what some other folks have talked about. we talk about the threat from a basis. it's spectacular. we talk about a couple dozen folks that are here that a major concerns about her here. past year we had over 10,000 deaths by heroin on the streets of the trade. hotel rooms, houses, on the streets, homes, people quietly dying from heroin and from narco-terrorist moving into our borders and distributing this incredibly toxic substance across our nation whether it's heroin, cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine's, it's a very strategic move that's happening at its extreme aggressive and seems to be accelerate at the pace we haven't seen before in many areas of certain types.
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we seem to have new locations that these drugs are coming from as well. can you help me understand the coordinated strategy not only dealing with isis and those threats on american soil but the threats that are coming in from narco-terrorist around the world as well over distribution networks, interdiction and if we did with new locations and improved to bring it in? how are we coordinating that? >> i can start from the enforcement perspective. your description is completely accurate, and i actually worry that our country is that getting it the way you described it. the acting minister of the dea was a great leader sent over his team to brief me on the current view of the threat, and it is breathtaking. cocaine use has gone down since 2006, that's good news. all the rest come is not just that is, it's awful. and strategy from enforcement perspective is try to disrupt the traffickers.
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try to lock them up, the kingpins in mexico which is where this is coming from come and to disrupt the gangs and organized criminals they're using to do street and attorney. the goal being to try to drive up the price to be honest. heroin is so cheap and so pure that it's a tidal wave washing over chilled and killing them because they don't know how pure it is. that's the strategy from law enforcement perspective, drive up the cost by locking up as many of these people as we can. i can't speak to the initial peace as well as maybe others could. >> on the interdiction front i think the key is a good working relationship with the government of mexico. my department and i personally spent all of time with my mexican counterparts. i plan to go there next week. this will be a topic. we have our joint task forces here will work with the government of mexico is key. i agree with you that we need to get better job in this respect
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because the problem is getting worse. >> is accelerating. we seem to supply coming from areas as well. are using new players internationally better time to get supplies to the united states? mexico is a very close neighbor. they are pushing all the way through north america of which a candidate. arthur other locations using on the horizon you can say this is a new region we haven't dealt with but they're trying to transport to the united states? >> the big focus is mexico. what's happened is that mexican traffickers have figured out they can do better by instead of bringing colombian heroin our heroine from some other place and transport to the united states, they are growing it in southern mexico, growing the poppies, we find themselves. they have just short of the transportation routes, drop the cost so they can so patty lower cost and higher purity. is the domination. the of the peace is methamphetamine. they are making it in huge
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factories in mexico. they are not bring it in from any other place. the center ground zero for this plague across the drugs is mexico. >> that they give you all the bit of good news. that united states coast guard, we sent a national security council uss scranton come on a four-month mission down to central america. while they were out for must be interdicted $1 billion worth of cocaine including large seizures often submersibles that the cartel's manufacture and run nics between south america and central america. so we want to continue those kinds of missions in what is there to continue that interdiction? as has been mentioned is the comforts of america. of producing mexico to try to find those locations, methamphetamine production of the is going down in the united states but it is rising rapidly in mexico so have found effective ways to go to limit the production in the united states.
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but now it is being pushed out. how ar i would handle in tryingo limit production there and work through the process as you mentioned visiting with the mexican counterparts is a good step but the fields continue to grow better with -- >> law enforcement. >> to pick up the basic supplies them to give methamphetamine and international connections for those. how can we help? >> greater coordinated law enforcement to in our two governments, that's the key. we do that on a regular basis but we need to do more. >> thank you for your work. i would say keep your eye on the ball because that is something we deal with on our street all the time. you all know that. the focus can't be off international tourism which happened with isil and the plans and potential focused to try to penetrate the united states but we know the narco-terrorist are penetrating as a physical tape and to find a way to go through
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the. but a quick sidenote if i can. secretary johnson, your department has done good work either with us to tocaloma. you have been put on a wafer with us. we are addressing that as the state and i appreciate your waiver for us as we try to work for the final process to get up to speed on it, so i appreciate that. >> thank you. the thing i emphasize there, we are progressing our efforts to enforce this law and there will come a point where we have to set some real deadlines. so i'm pleased at the progress that we've been making in working with state officials in oklahoma. >> thank you. >> senator lankford, director rasmussen, in your previous testimony he talked about the fact we have taken a number of these tears off the map. i want to get your assessment of the unfortunate reality is you take them off the map and they are replaced. both leadership as will as the flow of foreign fighters seems
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to continue largely unabated. can you give me your sense how effective the people we are killing are being replaced? >> i'll do the best i can in open testimony, senator. mr. chairman. what other things, one of the way we look at this as an intelligence committee is try to identify who brings unique capability to the terrorist enterprise, whether that's from the leadership level, high value leadership target, someone who may have a specific set of skills, perhaps in the weapons of mass destruction fueled or use of explosives, someone who hasn't shown ability to organize and orchestrate significant large-scale plotting activities. those kinds of individuals will be worth the of focused intelligence collection and whatever destruction capabilities we can bring to bear. probably want to leave it there.
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that is -- >> what about the flow of foreign fighters? >> the flow of foreign fighters, there's nobody who is satisfied that we have yet turned the tide in terms of getting that flowed to have crested. i will say though if there is a good news story summer embedded in this foreign fighter story, it is at the level of information sharing some of which secretary johnson was talking about, particularly with our european partners, is much more verbose than it would have been if we had, at the point we entered this crisis. >> the purpose of this hearing is laying out the reality. the round is we haven't stemmed the flow the way we wanted to. talk about the significance of the caliphate in the territory. is an excellent article written by graham boyd that was pretty eye-opening for many people in washington. we talked about that, director comey. can you talk about that, lay out the reality and why part of our strategy has to be to deny them that territory to really end of
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this caliphates because there's a couple different features of the isil's declaration of the caliphate a naked particularly concern. one, as you yourself suggested, it becomes almost a magnet to attract individuals who are seeking meaning, who are seeking to participate in a global jihadists enterprise. and that is unlike al-qaeda who was off and running their enterprise as a clandestine movement with a very, very rigorous vetting process before allowing individuals inside the fold. isil is issuing an open invitation on social media for people to come to the caliphate and join. simply in terms of size and scale, a declaration of the caliphate gives us concern because it provides that neither. be on that somewhat amorphous the fact, the creation of a caliphate and to control the physical space as i mentioned in my testimony gives a terrorist organization the opportunity to gather resources, to operate potentially in a safe
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environment and while they're managing other parties because of the time and space to pursue more aggressive operation. maybe of the sort that al-qaeda did traditionally. that is i guess what is the part of the caliphate became a great concern is that physical space in a rack and syria but you yourself pointed to what depression. >> the goal needs to be denied them that territory. if you're going to degrade and defeat isis you've got to deny them that territory spent i would agree. >> director comey, just a quick suggestion. i didn't meet with his young woman who had the courage to come forward and tell her story in terms of combating on social media these young women are actually inspired to go to syria anorak to join i suspect that would be perfect powerful way of doing it, just to comment. secretary johnson, we felt it
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hearings on border security. we will overnight in a couple of weeks we will issue the majority report on our conclusions from those hearings. i think we are integrated because we talked about this repeatedly, i'm always looking for the root cause. i think we agree, senator carper, the root cause is our insatiable demand for drugs. it's been insatiable for decades which has given rise to the drug cartels for beginning to combined with transnational criminal organizations, potential terrorist organizations and so that's what we need to address the it's one of the reasons i pointed out the fact that general mccaffrey said the own interdicting 5% of the drugs on the southern border. we have to lay out the ugly and harsh reality. i'd like to give you, secretary johnson, the opportunity, you talk about the strategy you are trying to employ that you want this congress and a lot of this comes through this committee to help you codify.
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can you describe what your strategy is in kind of summary detail here, and again i am completely committed to work very close to with you and your department to codify this into a step-by-step approach which is the way we can accomplish it. let's find areas of agreement that unite us but can you lay that out and give me the priorities? we started with unique information to solve a problem. so the border saturday metrics build, we'll try to move it and get the past and on the president's desk. what are the next steps in what is your strategy? >> in terms of pure border security, senator, more technology, more surveillance. to pursue a risk-based strategy so that we go after the threats where they know they exist. more surveillance, more technology which is reflected in our fy '16 budget submission. we need help in terms of speeding the process of deportations and asylum
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applications and immigration courts, more resources to accomplish that so that the time it takes to litigate is not as long as it is a. but, frankly, you mentioned the root causes in this country. i want to mention a root cause that exists in central america. last time i was on the border i talked to a seven-year old girl who came all the way from central america all by herself. to texas. more surveillance is not going to deter a seven-year old he was fleeing poverty and violence in central america from coming up here. so my judgment is that we have to address the underlying causes in those countries. we talk about addressing the underlying causes for refugees in syria. we got to do the same in central america as well. the administration's asked for a billion dollars to invest in central america and help congress considers that. as long as the conditions in
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those countries are as bad as they are, medical and other types of numbers that we have come from central america. and somewhat to invest in a smart computation, border strategy which includes surveillance and technology on our border but we have to address the underlying causes. >> if we do the survey and detect and we apprehend in the process and industry get and dispersed around that sends a powerful signal to central america that if you get to america, regardless of what our laws say, if we don't send people home, that's good increase the flow. if the problem right now with syria. we just had the president of germany in. the more europe except refugees from the compassion that we are as people, to address the humanity crisis, the more they accept him, the more of the 4 million that are displaced will flow into europe. the more the 7.6 displaced within syria will flow into europe.
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we have the capacity in our countries to take people. we are a nation of immigrants but we have to recognize what incentives are recruiting for illegal immigration? we have to assess and we're going to going down to central america. arthur governance structures, leaders, like went in colombia are the leaders who will take that money and use it properly to improve conditions or are we just basically wasting that money? i think we do have to address as part of our borders history strategy, again accessing the fact of our insatiable depend for drugs, also look at every incentive we've created within our long for illegal immigration. we've talked about this. then of what is work. that's have a functioning guest worker program so there's a host of issues but we can control things here. i don't know how much we can control in central america. we want to help and that would be great. on the show much we can do but we can do things here so let's make sure we're addressing all those incentives within our law,
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within our adjudication process patterns advising people to come to this country in and of those incentives. >> i don't disagree with what you are saying but i do believe having spent my 22 months as secretary of homeland security intensely focused on this problem, that a large part of the solution is addressing the conditions in central america. >> if we can make those economic prosperous zones not haven for drugs and corruption i would agree. i'm not sure we can. sure we can get sure we can get short-term there's something to do short-term inside this country. senator carper. >> i thank you, mr. secretary you've heard me say they times i that what works, do more of that. if you go back about colombia 20 years ago, failed nation. we supported, funded, they had good leadership, a lot of leadership from the private sector and bit by bit they have turned things around.
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somebody has done this before. so were other folks. i would say with respect to central america and the movement all these folks after country, special last year, not as much as this you but there is a root cause. you nailed it. but picture the system there's a lot of wisdom in that as well. it's not a choice but to one or the other. we need to do both. and walk and chew gum at the same time? i think we can and i think we must. nick, i'm going to take is that you today i'm going to get you and again here for all of it. does the name jessica stern mean anything to you? >> yes, sir. she's a terrorist expert academic in the world. >> and husband does. her husband, chet atkins, was a former colleague of a number of us in the house back. she has testified you. i think after hearing on jihad
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2.0 earlier, and had a chance to meet with her and her husband a couple months ago. she was good enough to give me a couple of her books. one called isis, state affair. that's a reasonable kind of like, more than a decade ago. the older book focused on what is it that's causing a strange alienated men, largely come to create in this country faith-based organizations in many cases that are designed that are morphing into terror or. she could that into this is all over the world, palestine come if you will, afghanistan and, i, all kinds of places. and what she was trying to do is drill down on root causes what is it that's causing these mostly guys to leave the countries and go off, in many cases go off and form an outfit or join an outfit like isis, and
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she said these are mostly men without much meaning in life. these are people, they don't like him in this country they think of us as great satan. a lot of them will rally. the prospect of adventure, real meaning in their life, the prospect of when they die they go to heaven. before they die they have all these lives. ever people come there's not much happening in their life, not much prospect of she said they are ripe for the plucking. did she have it right? think about root causes. why are all these people and to come from all over the world to join up with isis? >> thank you, senator do. she is part of it right in the work you are using on her behalf echoed some of the same analysis that are endless across the community are engaged in. i meant to ad add to this when e of your colleagues asked earlier about underlying conditions or causes.
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if you look at each and every one of the conflict zones around the world that are particularly fraud right now or where i so seems be able to take hold in some form or fashion, another recurring theme is sectarian conflict. so when the art in those locations significant unresolved sector issues compatibility to go into the details on how that plays out in iraq and syria and across the levant between the sunni and shia communities, that just creates a much more fertile ground for the iphone narrative to take hold. so that come as you develop come as you consider mitigating strategy, that adds other of complexity which are trying to do because you're not simply setting up a condition where you are good against evil or good guys against bad guys. if you're terrorist population of concern is also enmeshed in a sectarian conflict in which the
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answers are not easy or if they were easy they would have been seized upon by previous iraqi and syrian governments, all i'm saying is that adds a layer of complexity to a somewhat more simple narrative of personal alienation. i'm not saying simple in a derogatory way. that's just one level of the problem. >> seems that people are joining the fight with isis, some of them are coming from, they don't have much in terms of power. they give a lot of money and one of the things i hear is being paid to get money out of this. could you take a minute and give us an unclassified assessment of isis finances? are they running a deficit? are they having trouble paying their bills? what are some of the facts, how do these factors impact their ability to be successful? >> that's a very good question. at a gross aggregate level we
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believe isis is a well-financed well resourced organization. the early stages of the conflict we assess that some of the resource base to which they were relying was not necessarily going to be replenished bowl or a recurring base. you can rob a bank or the sentiment in iraq once but you can't rob it again and again and again. i think we hope that over time isil's ability to generate additional resources would go down more dramatically than it has. what they have shown is an ability to muster ways to use the natural resources present into territory they control, principally oil, and exploit that for financial gain. and actually develop their own manufacturing capability and it doesn't run and/or stations like the state. i think unlike the al-qaeda financial picture which we were dealing with for a number of years where you were worried about specific fund-raising activities in certain far-flung
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capitals around the world and money flowing to pakistan to fund terrorist activity, this is much more self generation by isil as it functions like a stake him including using taxation but also extortion and also criminal means as well spent one last quick question if i could. this is one for secretary johnson to understand you establish a new office of by the extremism, and could you just take a moment and share with us how this office will do things may be differently from dhs' existing efforts to counter violent extremism? >> a couple of things. one, this office and this director will report directly to me. number two, i'm consulting all the personnel within the department in headquarters to work on cde in that one office under the supervision of the one director. and three, we want to eventually use this office to extend its reach out into the field so that
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we have more reach in fear because when you can bet people in the committees you get good results. i want this office to focus on taking our efforts along with the fbi and other agencies to the next level, which is getting to counter message a larger platform and encouraging leaders in those communities along with the tech sector to get together and do that come in courage philanthropies and develop some of our own grantmaking in this specific area. >> thank you. thanks to each one of you. thank you. >> senator baldwin. >> pretty good timing. >> thank you, mr. chairman. ranking member. i want to thank all three of you for your service, and i was here for your testimony. as you know i just about and so at the risk of getting into some of the territory that has been covered in my absence, i
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apologize for that. i wanted to dovetail on some of the questions that senator carper asked in his first round relating to the syrian refugee crisis, and in particular a number of you testified that we are getting better at the vetting process over time, but we are not error proof, 100% error proof yet. and there was also i think chairman johnson talked about prioritization in terms of family members, of syrian americans, et cetera. i guess in this public setting i'm wondering if you could outline for me how we make this process more efficient and swift without sacrificing thoroughness
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and quality. and if you can talk bit, secretary johnson, about the prioritization process to the degree that exists that deal with family members. i would assume that the bedding for a child is different than a fading for an adult, and advertise for the united states. -- vetting. >> there are several agencies involved in the process. they uscis, state department, and when a refugee is referred to us they are referred to us by unhcr. so unhcr will have done some of its own bedding, not deserts the security vetting that we would conduct, and in referring a refugee to the united states in particular, meyerson a do so because they're our family connections to the united states versus some of the country are
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so by the time they come to us, unhcr has judged him to be a good candidate for resettlement in the united states. once the that are with us, state department meets with the individual. mitogen is someone from the uscis will personally interview the refugee -- my understanding is that there's a pretty extensive background check now that includes vetting against a lot of other databases and agencies, including law enforcement and intelligence. it's better than it used to be, and the good news here is that unhcr has already identified a number of refugees that they believe would be appropriate for resettlement in the united states. so we are not starting from scratch where we are are waiting for people to pick up and leave transit. unhcr has identified a number that are suitable for resettlement and that's what we
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started there was a reference made to 1600 resettled issue. i think will finish out this fiscal year, the last fiscal year closer to around 2000 so we would've gotten through the ones that we're focused on in fiscal '15. i do want to be at october people we should be very careful in the security reviews for each of these. i agree with the assessment that has been expressed worry that this is a population of people that were not going to know a whole lot about necessarily, coming from syria. we are going to meet our commitments with the resources we have, but we will do so carefully. >> thank you. mr. rasmussen, you talk in your testimony, you describe the increasing competition and conflict between the taliban, isil and al-qaeda as a dynamic that you are working to understand more thoroughly.
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you also mentioned that the complex between these groups may in some us back to distract from their western targets. i would like to hear from you sort of wonder the questions that you're asking. you said you have all the answers. what other questions you are asking? and in some ways i've always worried that conflict between these groups could lead to a competition to be more spectacular than each other, and that, of course, gives us great concern. >> the conflict plays out any number of levels. there is an ideological level conflict and competition taking place between al-qaeda and the affiliated groups that student affiliated to al-qaeda in yemen, al-shabaab in somalia for
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example. other affiliate or decisions, competition between them and isil for preeminence in the marketplaces of ideas among global extremists. so that's not a very high altitude. but on the ground in certain locations there's actual, much were on the physical conflict between isil or isil related groups, with the taliban in afghanistan, for example, were actually very that individuals who in other circumstances might even be comrades in arms but in this circumstance are fighting and killing each other on the battlefield even as afghan national secret forces and u.s. coalition forces are also present in the theater as well. i take your point that you surely don't want great a competition for ever greater levels of spectacular violence.
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the one thing that intro conflict, that conflict on the battlefield in a place like afghanistan does is it does tend to be pretty all consuming for a terrorist organization to fight a ground war against other extreme is emphasized in a place like afghanistan. we are watching carefully to see if the isil province in afghanistan turns its attention from that effort, to gain ground, digging underground against the taliban, turns from the project is something that would be aimed at us, particularly something with an external focus, something look at the west akin to al-qaeda over the last dozen years. so i don't necessarily want to call the good news or that we are hard, but we realize that terrorists or decisions often have finite capabilities. they don't necessarily have the ability to prioritize everything equally. the more they are engaged in that kind of effort on the ground that it's often very resource intensive, unless
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capacity they have to carry out the more complex plotting. >> in your verbal testimony you talk about sort of isil having overtaken al-qaeda, and he pointed to access to resources and territorial control and control over basically more people. is there still a very sharp distinction between isil and al-qaeda with regard to their aspirations to control territory? and how does that relate to the risk that the organizations pose to our homeland? >> from al-qaeda's perspectiv perspective, isil's declaration of the caliphate is illegitimate and premature. so they differ fundamentally on a central premise of what can the isil agenda. at the same time i wouldn't draw
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some huge distinction between the two groups as they look at the legitimacy or virtue of attacking the west in whatever way that they can find the capacity to do so. they are not making common cause with each other in that effort because of the philosophical and leadership cleavages, but at the same time we were at and watch for individuals who might migrate across organizational lines to cooperate with each other for a specific purpose driven efforts. just because someone is isil or al-qaeda one day does not mean that is, you know, your laminated badge from the organization may not last very long but he may find yourself changing teams, changing sides. that's why what i said in my test what about isil gaining preeminence. success breeds success and more individuals have flowed in the direction of crisis, isil for that reason spectra do i note i
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have exceeded my time already. i have one other question i that it wanted to hear from the witnesses. i would ask unanimous consent to submisubmitted for the record. >> that's fine. we will keep the record open for questions for the record, so thanks, senator baldwin. it is anothe is in the traditios committee, please send senator carper was chairman was to give the witnesses closing comments, things you want to remark after the questioning. sod buster with you, director comey. >> i don't think i have anything. i think we have covered a complex set of topics in a pretty good way. not sitting here thinking there's something lingering. >> secretary johnson? >> chairman, senator carper, i have appreciated our very constructive working relationship. i appreciate the tone that you set at these hearings and i appreciate your friendship. >> director rasmussen?
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>> the only thing i would have is on the governmental affairs cited are committees that, i think you would be pleased i think is senator carper said with how well our organizations are working together. as many of you know, nctc is an or condition or less on contributions from others. our lifeblood in addition to permanent employees is found in the contributions of other organizations. and just a couple of weeks ago i had opted to those director comey as he spoke to 60 or so fbi detailee is assigned to nctc who are doing terrific work ahead of us all. so just to say there's always room for improvement in the way we work together. we are striving to get better and what we do but i'm tremendously proud of my workforce but also the work, the workforce a is i get support frm at dhs and fbi. >> thank you, director we talked earlier about the cooperation between agencies and state and
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local governments as the uninsured senator baldwin agree. as i talk to individuals in wisconsin past with your mission, keeping wisconsin but also this nation safe. they also are please with the cooperation so we are moving in the right direction. that's kind of to do so i appreciate that. again i want to thank you for your services to the station for all three of you. i think america is incredibly fortunate to have many of your caliber and other dedication come of your integrity serving in your capacity. i realize this is not a nine to five job five days a week this is 247365 days a year and all three of you are working hard to keep this nation safe. truly i think i speak for all of us when i thank you for your patriotism and for your service for this nation. >> i'm tom carper and i approve that message. >> again doesn't awful lot we agree on a we're trying to find is areas identified as. this incredible remain open 415
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days. for submission of statements and questions for the record. this hearing is adjourned. thank you all. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]
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>> c-span azure coverage of the road to the white house 2016 where you'll find the candidates, the speeches, debates and most importantly your questions. this year we're taking our road to the white house coverage into classrooms across the country with our studentcam competition giving students the opportunity to discuss what important issues and wanted the most from the candidates. policy spans studentcam competition road to the white house coverage 16 on the tv, on radio and online at c-span.org. >> the heads of a number of business and hobby as interest groups testified before the house aviation subcommittee last week on the need for drone safety regulations. faa deputy administrator michael
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whitaker talked about his agency's lengthy rulemaking process aimed at creating a comprehensive set of safety rules for integrating drones into the existing u.s. airspace. this hearing runs about two hours and 15 minutes. >> good morning. the subcommittee will come to order. i would like to thank everyone for being here. i ask unanimous consent members not on the subcommittee be permitted to sit with the subcommittee at today's hearing him offer testimony and ask questions. without objection, so ordered. today we look forward to hearing from various stakeholders on a very important topic to our country, aviation safety in the area come in the air of unmanned aircraft systems. unmanned aircraft systems, or uas, represent the latest frontier in aviation technology. while still a new industry, uas
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are already contributing to our economy and changing how companies do business. across the country, we already see uas used for a myriad of operations, from surveying, photography and safety inspections, to medical delivery and search and rescue. with each new use, businesses and commercial users can save time, money, and even lives. but like any other new technology, uas bring new challenges as well. in the past year, pilots have been reporting sightings of uas near airports at an accelerating rate. in 2014, the faa received 238 reports of drone sightings. in 2015, the number has already exceeded 600. safety is paramount in aviation and the increased number of suspected sightings raises serious questions. some of these reports involved the airliners and occurred at low
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altitudes near the nation's busiest airports. other reports involve pilots of general aviation aircraft in less busy airspace. the real possibility of a mid-air collision must be taken seriously in order to prevent tragic consequences. to be clear, it is also my understanding that some of these reported sightings may involve something other than a consumer unwisely operating their new gadget in busy controlled airspace or restricted airspace. in at least some cases, the reported uas may have been a government-operated aircraft or a lawfully-operated uas or simply a bird in flight. to that end, we need to understand what precisely is going on in our airspace, what's the actual risk and how do we manage and mitigate it? with retailers readying for significant uas purchases by american consumers this upcoming holiday season, this
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conversation and subsequent action cannot wait. there are real consequences if we are not cautious enough, though we must not go to the extreme which could unnecessarily restrict the uas industry's growth and innovation here in the united states because of so-called false positives. the key is balance, and i believe that this committee, as well as the faa and stakeholders, continue to strive for just that. the answers to these questions will be complex, though i am confident that our country can and will address them. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses and thank them for joining us today. before i recognize mr. larson for his comments come i ask unanimous consent et al. members have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include extremist material for the record of this hearing.
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without objection, so ordered. i would like to yield to mr. larson for his opening remarks. >> thank you for holding today's hearing on insurance aviation safety in an era of unmanned aircraft systems. i'm pleased we're here to address this important and timely topic of the safety of uas international airspace. a number of unmanned aircraft being sold in the u.s. is staggering. going to on one industry group e number sold this year could reach 700,000, a 63% increase over last year. other reports suggest that figure will soon reach 1 million. it will continue to grow so the natural question becomes who are flying these million plus unmanned aircraft? many as record you are responsible and safe users. these include serious hobbyist such as those represented by the academy of model aeronautics who are here today and commercial users with a financial interest in safeco responsible operations. but, unfortunately, they include
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people who are not for me with rules of aviation or concept of aviation safety. they are 6-under plus reports of mere passive between commercial aircraft and drones so far this year. that tells us what we need to do more to reduce the likelihood of a drug ending up in the flight path of a commercial airliner with hundreds onboard. be 600 pilot sighting suggests allowing anyone to plot a drone on or near the nation's airwaves is like letting people drive remote-controlled model cars on the interstate. unless more is done it is not even ask it will happen, it is win. this committee staff found by reports in nasa's aviation safety reporting system of some pretty scary encounters. one that reported he quote encountered a drone that came close enough to hear the propeller noise from the drone from inside my cabinet small size of the gone but impossible to see until it's too late to take evasive action. the list continues. in addition to rest in the air,
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unmanned aircraft pose risks on the ground. this year and aerial vehicle crashed into praided goers injuring one woman when it crashed into her head. i look for doing from our witnesses today about what the faa and stickles are doing to address the safety risk before it's too late. why we cannot deny the extent of public and commercial benefits of unmanned aircraft as well. ues can be used for search and rescue, wildfire mitigation as well as inspection bridges and other critical transportation infrastructure. uas industry has great potential to drive growth, create jobs. one trade group estimates in just 10 years of unmanned aircraft will create, 100,000 jobs and at $82 billion in value to our economy. that's particularly important to states like my home state of washington, a hub of aviation research and development. this committee has an
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opportunity to be proactive, to listen to experts today to understand what congress can do to help keep our nation's skies safe and produce legislation about u.s. that wil reflect our safety agenda while doing no harm to a promising industry. the faa act directed the efficacy of the integrate unmanned aircraft by 2015 and require the agency to issue regulations on small unmanned aircraft. ..
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>> >> the chairman is not here yet so do you have opening remarks? >> thanks i appreciate the opportunity they you convene the topic today as there is tremendous potential of commercial application of the draw and technology. but first and foremost, we have to establish the rules that absolutely insure the integrity and safety of our
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aviation system today. we have seen instances mentioned by the ranking member earlier of toy drones is in critical airspace. at this point we don't really know what happens if you suck a quad copter into a jet engine and by request the faa is moving forward with the evaluation. after the investigation -- pittsburgh possible for a strike they calculated a 4-pound bird generates a for sepal of 14 tons. some of these toys are up there that weighed that much and what could that do with adjusted? we need to know. what are the solutions? there are commercial applications that the faa is moving forward with.
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the issue can be drawn between toy and commercial applications. that needs to be restricted in terms of where they can operate. so they can apply in restricted airspace and anybody that was found to have packed that -- hack that should be subject to serious penalties and fines. we might have to look dash registration. a peeping tom was using a drone with a camera looking in people's windows. it was cited by the neighbors and then the crash the police have no idea who was operating that there should be a way to track them back to the operator. people who use them
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illegally or improper or in danger privacy or safety of the travelling public. i think there is a lot of work to be done we will hear from the forest service would have crippled -- critical fire fighting activities because the people flying their toy drones into areas who wanted to operate aircraft to fight the fire and they had to suspend operations. there needs to be consequences for people to do those sorts of things and i expect this committee to work with the faa to see if they have authority to take action against these people or if they need new authority or new regulation so we can see if they use them responsibly for recreation or commercially
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or the minority using them irresponsibly. reporter said they expect 1 million of these how many of these that want to live bin restricted airspace and if they can operate the drone? there has to be a massive educational campaign in part that should be pushed forward to pay for by the manufacturers of these toys. with that and look forward to the testimony. thank you. >> thanks to our witnesses for being here today. the deputy administrator for the faa, a deputy chief of forestry for the added states forest service service, president of the airline pilots association,
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director of government and regulatory affairs for the academy of aeronautics, professor at stanford university. deputy administer whitaker you are recognized for your statement cpac chairman and ranking member pinky for the opportunity to appear before you today. >> please play your microphone closer. >> to discuss the anti-aircraft. the popularity and variety have increased dramatically in recent years many commercial uses are commonplace today including infrastructure inspection to survey agriculture revaluate damaged by natural disaster. to play an increasingly important role of law enforcement firefighting and
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border protection at the same time demand for recreational drugs has exceeded everyone's expectations driven by individuals that are completely new to the aviation experience not necessarily the traditional model airplane operators there often unaware they are in shared airspace. the proliferation of small and you mix -- and expense -- and expensive uas. we must integrate them into the safety culture. we want people to enjoy the new technology but to do it safely this requires education as well as creating collaborative our reach. this is why we have joined with industry partners to launch the know before you fly campaign this gives them
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the guidance that they need to tell them where they can and cannot fly we also have a no drums known campaign that reminds people to leave their aircraft at home during ballgames or public events or to the pope's visit however we firmly believe it must go hand in hand our preferences to her voluntarily comply but we will not hesitate to take strong action against anyone that flies the unmanned aircraft to the illegal manner. is fitted dangers other aircraft we will work with our partners to prosecute these activities. today we have investigated several hundred incidents operating outside of existing regulations. if a proposed 1.9% billion dollar civil penalty against the company that conducted
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dozens of unauthorized flights over chicago and new york this sense of a clear message to others operate within the law or we will take action. we recognize the technology associated with the unmanned aircraft is continuing to leave all this is also for the technologies that could further advance the safety and capabilities of these aircraft for earlier today we have a research agreement that identifies an unmanned aircraft near airports working with government and industry partners we will assess the capability in the operational environment without compromising safety to recognize the regulatory framework needs to keep pace with technology the reform act of 2012 laid out of favor -- a framework of unmanned aircraft into the airspace the faa has taken concrete steps to accomplish this goal.
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the key component is to finalize regulations earlier this year reposed a rule to allow small operators that we know are safe and also means the current commercial demand the faa received 4500 public comments and we were working to address those. the rule breaking approach seeks that balance that allows manufacturers to innovate while mitigating a safety risk we also have the need to be flexible and nimble as technologies develop and beyond the line of sight is research we want to move quickly while making substantial progress we have work to do.
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and then to have this integration efforts. both the these gentlemen are seated behind me. the faa has a long history to integrate new users and we are well-equipped to put this to be unmanned aircraft. i am happy to answer any questions you may have. >> booster chairman and members of the committee the latest fire season responded
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to the 47,000 fires fires, 9 million acres of the fact did territory. and to the fire in the west probably will not be much different than that. en the primary initial attack is aviation. and they don't put the fires out and the ground troops to but the initial attack response so that gets the most attention.
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and with firefighting day help was with situational learn is thank communication and monitoring to track fire behavior and safety issues better viable. i wouldn't say our statistics are significant but the trend is a little worrisome. in 2014 we only had to incursions' and in 2015 we had more trouble those stop those operations to operate and the complex environment as well as the string - - fixed wing that is not a
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simple matter. the department of interior they all work together with homeland security in the meantime public education is important if we do have media attention to incorporate data as a regular message so people can understand. so those risks are significant if something
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were to happen in the air with the drone and the aircraft. a the frequency is not that much but the trend is worrisome. the risk of identification and avoidance with a few problems to solve also recognize uas is a valuable tool that we also take advantage of. i would be happy to answer any questions. >> they give for the opportunity to be here today and manned aircraft systems or uas can allow was to perform certain tasks every also understand the value of america's competitiveness
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with the overarching concern their release hundreds of pilot reports the number show more encounters are happening more often. it appears to be the primary source. operating a kong boat -- a cargo flight flying 60 are 70 feet to the left of the aircraft and described it as for blades and ex shaped as an airline captain i can tell you if the pilot can report this level of detail it is way too close also reporting on final approach to york liberty international. in april a pilot reported a the drone fly within tutor
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to the left wing at seattle-tacoma. they literally appear out of the blue some do not have lights, limited contrast and they move much more slowly than their lighters and as a result they're extremely difficult to see and flight and in this example you can see though white color of the uas plants in with the sky. abetted trying to detect this at 280 miles an hour. the number of near misses events demonstrate the risk
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is shows the hazards will only increase the united states must put safety first the faa is making progress well is encouraging it must address all operations including recreational and noncommercial help for the action plan is education anyone who plans to fly these misunderstandings aircraft in the aerospace and the other aircraft that share it for those that want to do the right thing there are resources such as the know before you fly campaign. we also need to reach those that do not appreciate the danger they must adhere to the faa guidelines include a nt age requirements and
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registration ingathering contact information does not only offer to identify the owner but to drive home the serious nature to operate these vehicles. technology. if uas operate in the space of airliners airline pilots need to see them on their display or the radar scope to ensure it is capable to avoid a collision with manned aircraft. uas must have technology that cannot be overridden. those must be significant. uas pilots must be properly trained to exceed the possibility of malfunctions to deliberately fly a uas
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should be to subject to criminal prosecution those that deviate should be subject to a civil penalty we welcome that for endangering the safety of the airspace around the eric city and chicago. our country can capitalize on the economic opportunity offered by uas while maintaining safety. with the safety risks highlighted it urges congress to direct the faa the way it is directed as part of the shared goal of transportation for those who depend on it. >> you are recognized.
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>> they give for the opportunity to participate the world's largest community-based organizations representing 180,000 members that small uas for recreational and educational purposes. for the last 30 years we promote the hobby of model aircraft paul they have a strict set of guidelines to be recognized as the safe and effective means the is have a fall new technologies to redress the of personal use of u.s. it is a a cross-section of america every inch from the age of six or 96 there is unprecedented growth according to the consumer
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electronic association sales will reach 700,000 is exciting and is beneficial as is with technology you can balance safety to capture the public benefits for cry want to take a step back to discuss the current landscaped we are concerned of greece -- recent headlines to slow air traffic that is why we closely analyzed the 764 records of drone sightings this summer at the analysis reveals a more complex picture indisputably some isputably somer misses of records of near misses of safety concerns and more needs to be done to address those. based on those specific irritations it includes to a
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crashes with military trucks also citing the commercial operators with or without authorization and the most recent sighting the faa has assessed a fine indicates the operations go well beyond hobbyist activity. they may not even we drones' the bottle rockets were bette blimps the is the information is only hopeful if they take time to analyze the are committed to a continued partnership to promote model aircraft and of the faa needs a better job to present the data it will ensure the safety of the nation's aerospace one of the most immediate and helpful things to increase safety is implement the rules as they're currently
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written by requiring everyone to participate in the safety program were to follow the new rules for commercial purposes once we implement with the operators to work more closely with law-enforcement to pursue a bad actors. to go against reckless operations and members know where and when not to fly unfortunately many news covers -- newcomers may not be aware that is why the ama
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and faa launched the know before you fly campaign. the systems will be in the community and as that approaches that will be to address that many organizations have joined the campaign including the air line pilots association that is here today. technology itself could be the solution and to the technology credit both commercial and recreational purposes have implemented technologies that address some of the concerns it could be a tool but it is no substitute for education has a tradition for safety in hands of the private figure
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for the upper charity to participate and will answer your questions that you may have. >>. >> chairman and ranking member and members of the subcommittee and a professor of aeronautics at stanford and third-generation pilot. my research for 10 years for the development of technology to enhance aviation safety. uas is the most recent exciting development in the field of aeronautics and has made aviation accessible ended has encouraged those we have not seen in a long time the growing popularity popularity, how we go about measuring?
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that is determined by the likelihood in the severity sufficiently drones but one of the hazards is inch digestion into thousand nine to reist drop by kennedy's of flock of large rounds could cause is the image of those dark less of the weight of the canada goose. it is conceivable that would cause some degree of damage to an engine to the severity of the u.s. airways flight. what is the likelihood of a midair collision to of this say about the today geographic location with the
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analysis of radar data a large analysis with the risk of encountering another aircraft is negligible. there is several technologists -- technologies to have risk that only has a of barometric a altimeter it relies on the up-to-date locations and accurate gps locations but the safety risk could be reduced with technology. i am not a policy maker but policy limits of drones flying 400 feet across to have those features if not already is negligible. most drowns capable to fly above 400 already have the altimeter one of the first things a user might do is to see how high the drone can
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go deal to the mid would not prevent interference that will help 90 users in discourage iraq was once. preventing a conscientious user from overriding the of the to the mitt is problematic the approach is still thought through by industry and i believe it is too early to mandate a particular act - - mechanism year term risk mitigation measures it is clear some type is needed to facilitate the integration of commercial drones into the airspace in collaboration with industry and academia has been pursuing the development of the traffic management system with their tremendous research to be done a system is likely to be necessary to prevent a collision the
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eight mondesi ffa has tested for a long - - large drums and in conclusion end of growing popularity presents a risk that should not be ignored education should play a major role in risk reduction and technologies that could be easily implemented to help prevent inadvertent airspace violations and is in the interest of the drug industry to implement these measures and to insure aviation safety as technology evolves. thank you for the opportunity. >> mr. whitaker addressing illegal uas flights are there any additional authorities the faa believes congress should provide to curtail wrongful operation?
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>> we're currently doing a review internally with dot and other agencies but the issue is locating the operators laissez question of the magnitude of penalties as locating the operators look at the pilot reports they know where the of uas is the with laser strikes than an hour it is coming from so the biggest challenge is to locate the operator in the first place so the emphasis is on education and to beef up that methodology. >> and according to news reports government agencies have acquired and deployed drove detection systems

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